Closed Roll

[Rock Strongo]

I was playing through Stick Control and I came across the section of closed rolls, but I don't quite understand what they are or how they should sound. I read the paragraph explaining it, but it didn't help too much. Could anyone please elaborate on this and/or post some audio if you happen to have some.
Thanks.

[crazyguy832]

Buzz it.

Your sticks are going to bounce off the head VERY fast, making a "duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh" sound.

At least that's my understanding of the closed/buzz roll. I've been confused lately by terms, though, so... :p

[Caleb_Pickering]

im asumeing you mean a buzzed roll. it should make a zzzzzzz and duhhh sound at the same time. just listinen to some concert snares during a orchestra piece.

[crazyguy832]

Hah, knew I was right!

:p

Yeah... I actually think of it more as a "brrrrrrrrrrrr" sound.

[billdrum]

There's alot of debate about this stuff, but a closed roll and a buzz roll are really different:

Open roll: exactly 2 bounces per hand

Closed roll: (also called an orchestral roll, or a multiple bounce roll): 3-4 bounces per hand

Buzz roll: More of a pressed or crushed roll, less "full" than the orchestral roll.

[crazyguy832]

Whatta-WHA!?

Whoa whoa whoa... that... that...

I'm going to have to read Stick Control again, but you look MAJOR wrong billybob...

[White]

yeah, ummm, would the using my finger to control the rebound apply in this? it just seems like the sticks arn't coming high enoguh off the snare to need fingers to push em back down?? so would I have to, like I already do this easily, im jsut wondering if im doing it wrong lol.

[moogoogaipan]

Whatta-WHA!?

Whoa whoa whoa... that... that...

I'm going to have to read Stick Control again, but you look MAJOR wrong billybob...
nah...he's got it.

except... buzz roll and closed are pretty much the same thing.

Scratch roll is the nasty super-fast and super-tense roll that shouldn't be considered musical

[Josiah]

I think one of the best ways you can develop a great closed roll is by working on 3 and 4 stroke rolls and getting up to a speed of sounding closed, or thus being closed.

[Caleb_Pickering]

yea buzz pretty much equals a closed, haha looks like all my years of percussion paid off:P I like incorperateing buzzed rolls in some songs. just a snare and bass beat. and when i buzz roll its not any finger at all hardly just kind of a gentle push and learn to control it to get a steady buzz over time.

[billdrum]

Whatta-WHA!?

Whoa whoa whoa... that... that...

I'm going to have to read Stick Control again, but you look MAJOR wrong billybob...

First of all, Stick Control is a million years old, and as wonderful a book as it is, its roll descriptions are quite out of date. Secondly, I've studied that stuff with renowned orchestral teachers.

[Caleb_Pickering]

I've studied that stuff with renowned orchestral teachers.

who all have you studied with? ever with Kieko Abe? haha shes awesome, but the only person iv met thats learned with her is my band teachers proffessor at Texas A&M.

[billdrum]

I have not studied with her directly, but a good friend of mine went to Japan for 6 months to study with her and shared many of her ideas with me. I had in years past studied much of the Japanese marimba literature and have performed several of her works, though I don't keep up the marimba stuff much anymore.

I've studied with Ted Frazeur and Kay Stonefeld at SUNY Fredonia, Larry Snider at U of Akron, had lessons and master classes with Tom Siwe and others at U of IL, Steve Gage who is now director of Bands at Youngstown State U, Michael Udow, and many others through clinics and master classes. I've also performed in pro orchestras in Fredonia, Erie PA, Akron OH, and Peoria IL.

[some jive turkey]

my $o.o2 :

*dusts off part of brain*

I think there is a difference in buzzed and closed rolls.
It's difficult to explain in words, without showing you. But one way to think about it is that with a buzz roll you basically try to eliminate all spaces inbetween each and every snare hit, to where the buzz roll sounds continuous. a closed roll is not necessarily like that, though I suppose a fast one could sound like it.

The way billdrum described it sounds accurate to me.

A closed roll should have a controlled bounce, which gives it a "cleaner" sound. This is ususally one stroke followed by another, in a motion that incorporates a bounce, and then immediately switching to the other hand and doing the same. Buzzed rolls have an incalculable number (who's counting?) of attacks laid down by each hand with a little pressure that forces the stick to bounce on the head.

an open roll involves the same muscular contraction for each and every snare hit (no bounce)


I could be wrong about this. I'm not a technical person or a college professor or anything. But this is how I understand it.

[Seafroggys]

closed rolls are actually hard to sound good without really pressing into them. At first they might seem much easier than an open roll, but then try playing a press roll at pp.