"playing with the groove"

[RobertOz]

yea so ive been teaching myself bass for 2 years now, i would say that i am ok, since i dont regularly play with other people, i really have no improv or "jamming" skill. So anyway, i was playing with my friend and his brother who are quite the skilled musicians to say the least. first thing we played was a moderately tempoed jam, i think i just played like 8th notes through out the entire jam while my one friend who was playing drums was yelling out what notes to transfer to to me lol. then we played some covers off like zeppelin, hendrix and alice in chains etc, it was pretty solid. So i asked my one friend how he thought i did he said "it was cool, it was alright, not bad you just gotta work on fundamental things like playing with the groove". anyone have any advice for working on "playing with the groove" and to help improv and jamming? any help would be appreciated b/c i know theres more to playing than just learning songs that are harder and harder as time goes on.

thanks.

[Radiobass81]

The groove is basically just finding a beat with the drummer, and getting in sync (sp?).

The groove is overrated.

[Belfast Bassist]

Just use some patterns and riffs you've learnt throughout your playing, and modify them to what you think sounds good and to what the jam calls for. Dont worry bout playin the wrong notes, theyre your mates they wont care!

[RobertOz]

The groove is basically just finding a beat with the drummer, and getting in sync (sp?).

The groove is overrated.

yea i know that, its just, i cant create ****, i have no improv skill at all.

[RobertOz]

Just use some patterns and riffs you've learnt throughout your playing, and modify them to what you think sounds good and to what the jam calls for. Dont worry bout playin the wrong notes, theyre your mates they wont care!

not a bad suggestion, why didnt i think of that lol

[PaulSimonon]

Just use some patterns and riffs you've learnt throughout your playing, and modify them to what you think sounds good and to what the jam calls for. Dont worry bout playin the wrong notes, theyre your mates they wont care!
.....


:rolleyes:



But yeah, groovin' just comes with being able to connect with your drummer and the rest of the people you're playing with. Spend time getting to know their playing, and you'll be cool.

[Belfast Bassist]

[QUOTE=PaulSimonon].....


:rolleyes:



[QUOTE]

cheers man, i appreciate it...

[Radiobass81]

yea i know that, its just, i cant create ****, i have no improv skill at all.
Root, third, fifth, octave.

Start with those notes, and have fun.

[BassVirtuoso]

Groove is so much more than keeping in time guys. Groove is almost undefinable but it is best defined by finding the equillibrium between too much and not enough. Listen to latin percussionists like Tito Puente and then you will find out what groove is. Groove is a driving force, and no metronome can create that.

[PaulSimonon]

cheers man, i appreciate it...
:chug:

Hey, we're mates, aren't we?

Here's to wrong notes!

[Jimbobntnr]

usually that is a nice way of saying that you need to improve your timing. Try playing with a metronome for a while, and don't get to bent about it since it's hard to concentrate on timing when you don't really know the songs yet.

[Radiobass81]

I have yet to hear a "groove" which is off-time compared to the rest of the song.

The bass groove is usually heavily influenced by the beat of the drums. Most of the time, they should be connected (in sync, whatever).

And since when did Puentes define groove?

[BassVirtuoso]

You can't have groove without proper time, yes. But proper time does not mean it's playing with the groove. Punte didn't define groove, but he is a prime example of someone who can groove.

[Radiobass81]

usually that is a nice way of saying that you need to improve your timing. Try playing with a metronome for a while, and don't get to bent about it since it's hard to concentrate on timing when you don't really know the songs yet.
He was playing 8th notes. I doubt they would have used "work on your groove" to mean "work on your rooting time".

[Jimbobntnr]

they were telling him what notes to play. What else is there but timing? Heard it, said it, it means work on your timing.

[Radiobass81]

You can't have groove without proper time, yes. But proper time does not mean it's playing with the groove. Punte didn't define groove, but he is a prime example of someone who can groove.
No one said it did, I think.

I just meant you needed to find THE beat of the song. Not sure if I cleared anything up, but my english is currently failing me. Andrew may agree.

And, although Puentes is an incredibly ace player (a legend, to say the least), I can't really say he's groovy...

[BassVirtuoso]

http://drummerworld.com/Sound/titopuentereysolo.mp3

That...is groove.

[Radiobass81]

they were telling him what notes to play. What else is there but timing? Heard it, said it, it means work on your timing.
He was rooting along to the notes they told him to play.

[Jimbobntnr]

anyone have any advice for working on "playing with the groove"

Yes, perfect your timing. It's not over-rated if you play bass.

[PaulSimonon]

I can't play with a metronome... I end up listening too much to the beeps instead of my playing.

[peeted]

start with just the most basic rythmic line and develope it as you get more into it and get more confident with the groove/people your playing with.

[Linkinbassist]

Groove is timing, notage and feeling all rolled up into one tiny bundle. The only way to learn groove is jamming. How do you know if you've hit the groove? Trust me, you'll know and feel it when it happens...

[Radiobass81]

Yes, perfect your timing. It's not over-rated if you play bass.
Timing is overrated.

:)

[Jimbobntnr]

Timing is overrated.

:)
dude, really.
"She has a great personality" = she's ugly
"work on playing in the groove" = you need to get better timing.

If you think timing is overrated, then you need to work on your groove.

[darrell]

Groove is timing, notage and feeling all rolled up into one tiny bundle. The only way to learn groove is jamming. How do you know if you've hit the groove? Trust me, you'll know and feel it when it happens...

I know bass players who "know" when this happens, but in reality a toaster has more groove than them.

I play with this awesome drummer who toured all over Europe. I do some studio work with him... when we play, we lock up with each other and groove like I've never grooved before. Pisses me off when I play with a drummer my age. :)

[Linkinbassist]

I know bass players who "know" when this happens, but in reality a toaster has more groove than them.

I play with this awesome drummer who toured all over Europe. I do some studio work with him... when we play, we lock up with each other and groove like I've never grooved before. Pisses me off when I play with a drummer my age. :)

Generally, Knowing a groove is communication between the people playing. I know when my band are locking in because we smile at each other randomly, try awkward fills with crazy success and just have a great feeling inside us. We also go 'that was great!' afterwards. its a locking that feels like sex (says the virgin)...

[Radiobass81]

dude, really.
"She has a great personality" = she's ugly
"work on playing in the groove" = you need to get better timing.

If you think timing is overrated, then you need to work on your groove.
Firsly, they told him to play WITH the groove, not IN the groove. If he was playing WITH the groove, he would have gotten into the groove along with the guitarist and the drummer. IF he had said playing IN the groove, then yes, it could have been timing, but it wasn't.

Secondly, that last statement makes no sense. If I think timing is overrated, my groove is bad?

[BassVirtuoso]

Firsly, they told him to play WITH the groove, not IN the groove. If he was playing WITH the groove, he would have gotten into the groove along with the guitarist and the drummer. IF he had said playing IN the groove, then yes, it could have been timing, but it wasn't.

Secondly, that last statement makes no sense. If I think timing is overrated, my groove is bad?

Wait...that's what I've been trying to say. Why were we arguing?

[Jimbobntnr]

The groove is basically just finding a beat with the drummer, and getting in sync (sp?).

which side are you arguing?

[Radiobass81]

Wait...that's what I've been trying to say. Why were we arguing?
I wasn't clear when I said "get in the beat", and you mentioned Puentes :p.

That Puentes thing is still in my head, though.

[Jimbobntnr]

Secondly, that last statement makes no sense. If I think timing is overrated, my groove is bad?
as an old schooler, I think that a bassist saying that timing is overrated is much like a teacher saying that children are a waste of time.

It just makes me hurt inside.

[Radiobass81]

The "timing is overrated" thing was just to bother you. :p

And I'm still curious, so I'm really sorry, but, what about the rest of the discussion? Will we end it there?

[Jimbobntnr]

about what the guitarist meant? I think it was a euphamism, if you don't agree that's ok.

What is groove? it's the feeling and projected feeling of playing the right notes at the right time.

[Radiobass81]

If he had said "practice playing in the groove" I would agree with the whole timing thing, but if he was just pumping 8th notes and then responded with a "practice playing with the groove", I feel it implies something completely different, which is actually making and BEING in the groove along with the rest of the band. The others could be grooving, and no matter how perfect you are playing those 8ths, you aren't groovin'.

[BassVirtuoso]

^Can you get on AIM for a second?

[bassmancrv]

Groove is a very complicated thing.. its more of a feeling, than just playing in time. there are so many aspects to grooving, you cant just tell someone to play on beat thats not grooving at all... infact id say thats almost the opposite.

grooving is knowing how to play around the beat while staying in beat... haha that sounds really confusing, but i dunno how else to say it... it involves rythmical stuff, playing straight 8th notes is not grooving, thats what the rest of your band was trying to tell you, find the "pocket" and play in it..

just keep in mind what the bassists purpose in a band is... to create a bridge between the guitarist and the drummer.. to make the band fit together and make the music flow.. grooving is when you can do all that effectivly while also making the music have a "feel"

sorry for the long post.. but the bottom line is.. create your bassline melodically, then syncopate it, change up the rythm, put in some triplets, what ever you need to do.. to make the song come alive.. dont ever play 8th note runs for more than like 2 seconds IMO its boring and it kills the song

[Radiobass81]

Groove isn't that complex. It's very simple, really, once you can get in it.

[Jimbobntnr]

your timing has to be good though.

lawl

[7thdaybass]

dont ever play 8th note runs for more than like 2 seconds IMO its boring and it kills the song
that depends on what kind of music you are playing and where in the song you put them. sometimes i think just doing 8th note roots in the right places adds a lot to the feel of that part of the song

when i am trying to play a groove i find that it helps untold amounts to get up on your feet and start dancing or moving around and then start to play. always seems to work pretty good for me :thumb:

[Lowtone]

http://drummerworld.com/Sound/titopuentereysolo.mp3

That...is groove.
I'm out of breath. Raw energy!

I think the advice in this thread has been great but above all the technicalities (sp?) of it all...have the confidence to project yourself.

[Radiobass81]

^^ Would you call him groovy?

I still can't see how Puentes defines groove... :p

[Trevo]

well my drummer isnt greatso i cant rlly connect with him

[RobertOz]

Groove is a very complicated thing.. its more of a feeling, than just playing in time. there are so many aspects to grooving, you cant just tell someone to play on beat thats not grooving at all... infact id say thats almost the opposite.

grooving is knowing how to play around the beat while staying in beat... haha that sounds really confusing, but i dunno how else to say it... it involves rythmical stuff, playing straight 8th notes is not grooving, thats what the rest of your band was trying to tell you, find the "pocket" and play in it..

just keep in mind what the bassists purpose in a band is... to create a bridge between the guitarist and the drummer.. to make the band fit together and make the music flow.. grooving is when you can do all that effectivly while also making the music have a "feel"

sorry for the long post.. but the bottom line is.. create your bassline melodically, then syncopate it, change up the rythm, put in some triplets, what ever you need to do.. to make the song come alive.. dont ever play 8th note runs for more than like 2 seconds IMO its boring and it kills the song

very helpful information sir, thank you. now i think i can go into next jam session knowing what is needed to be done, lol its not gonna be anything special the first time, but iwht time, it will develop.

[Left Shoe]

http://drummerworld.com/Sound/titopuentereysolo.mp3

That...is groove.
good call on the puente

[Radiobass81]

Oh god.

Puente and groovyness just don't match.

[irishslappop]

i didnt find it "groovy" at all.

[thelowsoundofbass]

you can grove playing just 8ths

lowsound

[Radiobass81]

But just 8ths aren't really groovy.

It's something in which the converse just doesn't work.

I really hope I used "coverse" correctly... :p

[Akira]

But just 8ths aren't really groovy.

It's something in which the converse just doesn't work.

I really hope I used "coverse" correctly... :p
Notes aren't by nature extremely groovy, it is how you play them.

[gregulus]

When I think of groove playing I think of Dave Schools or Stefan Lessard or any jam band bassist, really.

[BassVirtuoso]

How about Marcus Miller guys? He is the Guru of Groove.

[Akira]

How about Marcus Miller guys? He is the Guru of Groove.
Oh yeah.

[Radiobass81]

Akira: 8th notes aren't groovy.

Justin: Much more than Puente.

[JBass]

just feel out the music..take what the drums and other instrument make you feel like you wanna play, and play it

[SillyPuddyonIce]

It depends on your style to what is the groove.

Normally like the one guy said the bass connects the drums and guitar.

To be more specific.. you are playing in key with the guitar (and rhythm with it a lot) and rhythm with the drums. Play a lot with the bass drum beats especially and also the snare bass beat. And the cymbals sometimes. Sometimes bassists go as far as to popping an octave when the drummer hits a crash. The more the drums and the bass sound like one instrument the tighter the music is gonna naturally sound. But dont be the drums. You're also backing up your guitar/key players. Bassists deserve the spotlight just as much (if not more) then them. So play some interesting basslines with the drums as well.

[MyFriendOfMisery]

But just 8ths aren't really groovy.

It's something in which the converse just doesn't work.

I really hope I used "coverse" correctly... :p
Well I think could be sometimes. Look at Parrallel Universe by RHCP. Its all 16ths notes and it has a nice groove(if what im thinking of as groove is groove).

[gobassgo]

I like to envision a groove like a school of tiny fish. It's streaming in unison, but the individual components are still visible. The pieces all interlock into this one overlooming character and swim about through space.

[doodooking]

You can groove with just 8th notes, you just need to be really good at how you accent those notes. I'm surprised no one said anything about accenting in a groove conversation.

[peeted]

well if your playing something like ac/dc then 8th notes is probibly the best way to stay in teh groove.

[basgitarist]

Well I think could be sometimes. Look at Parrallel Universe by RHCP. Its all 16ths notes and it has a nice groove(if what im thinking of as groove is groove).

What is Hip, Come On Come Over

[Son of Magni]

...The groove is overrated.
Don't try to tell that to Bootsy :p