Using a metronome in a band situation

[Phototropic]

So sup fellas, ya alright?!

I use a metronome/click track quite a lot when I'm playing, if I'm practising my bands songs I go over and over again to perfect it, and especially when we record, I can proudly say that I can keep time :) Rarely going out

When we play live, I'd like to use one, as the adrenaline usually ****s my timing up for the first few songs

Does anybody else use a click when playing live?!

Only person I've seen using one is the drummer from Mute Math and Alfredo Hernandez with both Kyuss + QOTSA

I'm betting the whole performance would be ultra tight....but I'm not 100% sure so fill me in!!! :chug:

[Kosmos Tree]

Yes, it adds to tightness, i know atleast three local bands who regularly use clicktracks in a live situation and they play super tight.

My band is starting to use clicktracks, but only for rehearsal.

[jversluis88]

I don't use a metronome when I play live, but when I'm at home I use one to practise the songs with. Obviously the more and different speeds you play to at home with a metronome, the better your muscle memory will become, making metronomes not a complete neccessity. Of course it's still best to have one.

[Kosmos Tree]

If your bands plays songs with a metronome it's not only the drummer who benefits, everybody has to play in time.
If one or more members of the band tend to play faster or slower you can almost eliminate this by playing with a clicktrack, you not only become tighter as drummer you become tighter as a whole band.

[fishbulb]

God, i doubt my bassist even knows what a metronome is. He cannot keep time for his life. We'd be playing crazy train and in about 5 seconds he was off by a whole measure...

[BSU_53]

I have a metronome playing in my headset when our band plays...then they just feed off me. Helps keep the rest of their noise down while I concentrate too...If they can't seem to keep time...then that's their problem.

[Phototropic]

Hehe thanks guys

Any advice on what typa earpieces are best?!

I have a couple of types but sometimes I struggle to hear it over the sound of the cymbals especially

[BSU_53]

I use skullcandy crushers because of their bass...what that does is allows me to hear a bigger sound instead of just a click so it doesn't get lost in the rest of the noise, plus they drown out outside sound as well. I just have to change the time signatures and tempos between songs.

[nonsense!]

I'd try to train yourself without it. Having less than perfect (but pretty damn close) time is natural.

I've found if I just let my music flow out, I play in time, whereas if I think "Oh god, am I in time?" I tend to lose the groove, and eventually become off beat.

[fishbulb]

If you have VIC Firth Isolation headphones you can put earbuds in your ears then put the isos on top of them.

[styler]

a metronome is good for rehearsal and for recording, but it would feel too mechanical on stage, youve gotta let the songs breath a little bit, you cant do that with a metronome beeping in your head.

[crazyguy832]

^^^
I agree.

Plus, if you fall out of time, you're going to kill the song trying to get back.

[styler]

i didnt think of that, but thats totally true, when your flowing time comes naturally, when your listening to a click its kind of unnatural and if you fall out your gonna stop playing trying to get back...thats probably what i would do anyway.

click tracks are for rehearsal and recording i reckon. :(

[Kosmos Tree]

Not if you're used to the clicktracks you play along with, after a while you won't even notice that there is a click, it's more some sort of guide.

[rohbit]

If i play faster, the band usually just plays with me.

I suffer from that "getting caught up in the music" problem...

[styler]

yar same, usually when i speed up my band does too and nobody notices it, we have to record ourselves to catch it if we dont play with a click.

[ThugsRook]

sorry guys ~ but i personally feel that playing with a click live is lame. it is possible to actually be a good drummer without using a click. really, it is. you should try it sometime :chug:

[styler]

dont be an *** thugs, we were all saying that before you tried be a heroic wierdo :(

the majority of us anyways.

[BSU_53]

It's also possible to be a perfect drummer WITH a click track...enough practice and people can choose for themselves....but I like em

[Double Bass Jim]

Practicing a click is a MUST

It's essential to develop your inner clock.

[styler]

i dont personally like to play to a click in any situation, i like to flow for the most part, but it is essential in alot of cases, and you should practice with it, cause in most cases when your recording your sound engineer will ask you to play to a click track, and if your not familiar with them, your gonna suck ****. excuse the language. but its true, and when your paying $50 an hour, you dont want to pay for you learning how to play to a click track.

[Double Bass Jim]

Get a click

When you play along to a metronome for the first time you will realise how horrible your time is, it's a real wake up call. Alot of drummers get frustrated and try to make excuses. Get the click out and polish your inner clock.

[Phototropic]

Yeah definately, I used to hate playing with one, so I didn't bother

But then I persisted and now I'm very comfortable with one, I hate playing without one to be honest

I can see what you mean saying the music might be a bit robotic, but I get caught in the music in a gig and it gets kinda sloppy so I think I need one :smoke:

[Kosmos Tree]

You can still play very muscial, even with a clicktrack.
You can play behind, on, or infront of the click and if you have a good feel already you won't sound like a robot.

[Phototropic]

Yeah, guess my band will take a bit of practising to get used to it

We looked up 'wireless earpieces' yesterday as we thought it would be sweet for us all to have the click in our ears

We soon changed our ideas when we saw that a set for half price was £666.52 :eek:

Guess I'll just be clicking my sticks ;)

[Kosmos Tree]

another good way to improve the overall tightness of the band is to record both guitarists and/or bass and drums and see how tight they are.

Just put a mic infront of their amps and compare the results, bad timing is not always the drummers fault ;)

[Phototropic]

;) haha yeah I'll try that

My bassist is a bit of a problem as he says hes only doing it for a bit of fun

Yes I know we all have fun 'but' we still work hard at home ;) grooving / writing songs, he doesnt :angry:

I need to get him working with a metronome especially

[styler]

boot him from your band man, hes holding all of you back, best friends, brother sister, or not. doesnt matter, hes holdin you back.

[SkaRabbit]

Practicing a click is a MUST

It's essential to develop your inner clock.


i read the word clock as somethng else:upset:

[Phototropic]

boot him from your band man, hes holding all of you back, best friends, brother sister, or not. doesnt matter, hes holdin you back.

...

[motleydrummer]

somehting you could do if u dont have isolation headphones is put regular earbuds on and these r cheap but u might have them around ur house, my dad had some earmuffs for like lawn work and leafblowing, throw those on, there just as good as isolation headphones and cheaper.

[ThugsRook]

dont be an *** thugs, we were all saying that before you tried be a heroic wierdo :(

the majority of us anyways.
who said i was talking to you?
did you see a quote there with your name on it? i didnt.

dont be an ***

[styler]

no, but im pretty sure you wanted it to be the viewed by the general public, as this is a public forum. last time i checked i was the public. so, you know i felt it necesary to read your post. sorry if that bothered you that i responded without sugar coating it. my bad man, my bad.



im really not actually sorry at all. thought you should know.

[Phototropic]

Stop turning this thread into a playground

[ThugsRook]

no, but im pretty sure you wanted it to be the viewed by the general public, as this is a public forum. last time i checked i was the public. so, you know i felt it necesary to read your post. sorry if that bothered you that i responded without sugar coating it. my bad man, my bad.



im really not actually sorry at all. thought you should know.
me either.
my post was for the general public that has yet to have read the thread. if i wanted to speak directly to you, i would have quoted you. since you already agreed with me i didnt see any point in directing it to you.

now that we have that straight ~ stfu.

[aaronperry10]

Back to metronomes.......i use one when i am setting up for jazz and and trying to get 140 bpm on the double pedal

[styler]

me either.
my post was for the general public that has yet to have read the thread. if i wanted to speak directly to you, i would have quoted you. since you already agreed with me i didnt see any point in directing it to you.

now that we have that straight ~ stfu.
gotcha captain.

[Phototropic]

I use skullcandy crushers because of their bass...what that does is allows me to hear a bigger sound instead of just a click so it doesn't get lost in the rest of the noise, plus they drown out outside sound as well. I just have to change the time signatures and tempos between songs.

Yeah?! I looked them up, they look a tad large

I was wondering about something smaller and more concealed

As I said we did look up a £666.52 wireless earpiece system but we don't have that kinda money :mad:

[jurialmunkey]

Practicing a click is a MUST

It's essential to develop your inner clock.



Why the f.ck can't my Drummer understand this concept...

[Phototropic]

Why the f.ck can't my Drummer understand this concept...

I know 2 local drummers who won't do it either, their dubal base drum skilz are more important than good time

[Double Bass Jim]

Why the f.ck can't my Drummer understand this concept...
Ignorance... Or thinking they have solid time when infact they do not.

Seriously play along to a click... It's a wake up call to anyone who hasnt played with a metronome.

[ThugsRook]

the whole point of being a drummer is to keep time, the rest is just fill.


there are 2 basic (and i do mean basic) things you need to learn:

play to a click or a CD, keep perfect time, all the time.
(this will teach you how to follow)

play on your own, keep perfect time, all the time.
(this will teach you how to lead)


playing drums and being a live performance drummer are 2 completely different things. the whole point of playing to a click or cd is to teach you, so you can do it on your own!

:chug:

[Double Bass Jim]

Playing along to CD's really isnt that great of practice.

Keep the click by yourside when your drilling at home, I'm tellin ya you'll be thankful later when your the one in the band who isnt rushing and dragging.

Playing along to a CD can be fun... But don't let that be your mainstay for building ability.

[crazyguy832]

Ya know what? I got one problem with playing with a click live...

What if the song changes tempo? Me and a guitarist buddy have been mucking around with a song, and the tempo of the intro is a fair bit slower than the first verse (not an equal jump either... like not 100bpm to 200 or something). What would you do in that kind of situation with a click?

[Phototropic]

Ya know what? I got one problem with playing with a click live...

What if the song changes tempo? Me and a guitarist buddy have been mucking around with a song, and the tempo of the intro is a fair bit slower than the first verse (not an equal jump either... like not 100bpm to 200 or something). What would you do in that kind of situation with a click?

Haha I have that problem with one of my own songs that I';ve tried recording

If that comes up I'll just have to not use a click live :p

Alfredo did the same thing in Kyuss Bizarre, wore a click for most of it but in Supa Scoopa he took it off since theres a tempo change

[billdrum]

Listen to Jim. Practicing with a click is very important. You can have all the double bass chops in the world, but if you can't play them in time at specific tempos, you're useless.

As far as live use of a click-i guess it depends on your bands tendencies when you play live. Good time is a group effort-a drummer by him/her self can't always keep everyone else in time if they refuse (or are unable) to fall in line. Record yourselves often and listen back with a critical ear-is your time as a group solid? Are the tempos where you want them to be? If not, you may want to consider using one.

I've had to use one when playing to sequences. A good drummer should not have any problem doing so.

[Double Bass Jim]

Record yourselves often and listen back
This is pretty important too, it's good to run tape when you practice.

Theres no better way of spoting errors/mistakes then listening to yourself play, it's a good way to polish the chops.

[Kosmos Tree]

Ya know what? I got one problem with playing with a click live...

What if the song changes tempo? Me and a guitarist buddy have been mucking around with a song, and the tempo of the intro is a fair bit slower than the first verse (not an equal jump either... like not 100bpm to 200 or something). What would you do in that kind of situation with a click?

You can program a clicktrack cheap and easy with programs like guitar pro and cubase.

Write the basics of your song down (measures, tempo changes) export as midi and reopen in cubase.
Mute everything except one empty track and record an audio click (don't choose midi, it's not loud enough)
It is recorded as .wav, convert it to .mp3 and put it on your iPod or mp3 player.

That's probably a sh!t explaination, but hopefully you'll get the idea.
If not, ask the guys in the Jam Session, they'll know ;)

[crazyguy832]

No, I understand what you mean.

Yeah, you could do that... but what about a slow, gradual change?

There are just some instances when I feel a click would hold you back.

[Kosmos Tree]

You can program gradual speed ups/slow downs in Guitar Pro, this option exists probably in a lot of audio editing programs aswell.

A Clicktrack becomes neccessary when you play with play-alongs/loops, that kind of stuff. Alot of bands also use it to play as tight as possible live.

I'd say it's a controversial topic.
There are advantages and disadvantages in using a clicktrack live, alot have been already mentioned.
You play tighter, but you have to sacrifice some sort of playing freedom.
I don't know if my band would want to play with a clicktrack live, but we'll start using them in rehearsals.

[SkaRabbit]

Practise = use a click
Live = you are the click

Hopefully if you practise with a click enough you will have such good internal time that you can hold a steady beat.

[TormentorScott]

Yeah, using a click every single day is the practice for a show in my opinion. Maybe if you were recording live and were nervous and needed something to fall back on. But personally for me we do too many things different live.

I can personally say that I used a metronome for a while, then stopped, then started up again.... SUCH A DIFFERENCE!!!

[Kosmos Tree]

I never practise without metronome, but band situation is different.
I play with guitarists who both generally rush at gigs and i'm also excited and play faster than i should, although i think it's still slower than in rehearsal.

[jurialmunkey]

I know 2 local drummers who won't do it either, their dubal base drum skilz are more important than good time


Hahahaha... yep. My drummer would fit right into that category... Sometimes I want to throw his double kick and his stupid crash in the bin so that he will work on his Kick/Snare/Hats work more.

As a bass player it gets so fricken irritating to have to practise to a clik constantly just to pull him in and keep the time... I should be concentrating on groove not keeping the time....... And he hits his cymbals way too much to cover his bad timing with a big wash of noise. It doesn't help that the guitarist has bad timing too (but he has to sing, and anyway it shouldn't matter too much if my drummer was actually listening to me instead of the melody...)


And then when he gets off stage and thinks he's played great after playing every song about 25bpm to fast so that it's all rushed........... because at least he hit all the drums in the right order (Doesn't matter that half the hits were a flam.. Ha!)Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

Then his Girlfriend backs him up and goes "Ohhhh your so wonderful and amazing" becuz she knows sweet f.ck all about playing drums and has the impression that becuz my drummer can play drums better than me, it means he knows more about drums and timing etc (She doesn't realise that bass is a part of the rhythm section and not just another guitar with less strings)


And then on top of it, he rejects so much song material but doesn't give any ideas back... and tries to get us to not play certain bits because he reckons they f.ck with his timing, when if he just practiced to a metronome he'd realise that he doesn't like playing because of his own timing, not because some guitar part is screwing with him. He shouldn't even be listen to the guitar anyway... he should be listening to me!!!!!!! Arghghghhghahgahgrhgarhgrhghgrhgr!!


Maybe I can secretly slip a metronome under his pillow while he's sleeping...

[rockindrummer]

I think that playing with a click is super important. I practice with one as much as I can just so I can have a good internal clock while rehearsing with my band. We don't rehearse with a click, though I would love to figure out a way for us too.

Recording is a totally different story. It is crucial to use a click while recording. I think that if your going to pay a bunch of money you might aswell do it right. Again to be able to play with a click smoothly and with feel it just takes practice.

[styler]

Hahahaha... yep. My drummer would fit right into that category... Sometimes I want to throw his double kick and his stupid crash in the bin so that he will work on his Kick/Snare/Hats work more.

As a bass player it gets so fricken irritating to have to practise to a clik constantly just to pull him in and keep the time... I should be concentrating on groove not keeping the time....... And he hits his cymbals way too much to cover his bad timing with a big wash of noise. It doesn't help that the guitarist has bad timing too (but he has to sing, and anyway it shouldn't matter too much if my drummer was actually listening to me instead of the melody...)


And then when he gets off stage and thinks he's played great after playing every song about 25bpm to fast so that it's all rushed........... because at least he hit all the drums in the right order (Doesn't matter that half the hits were a flam.. Ha!)Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

Then his Girlfriend backs him up and goes "Ohhhh your so wonderful and amazing" becuz she knows sweet f.ck all about playing drums and has the impression that becuz my drummer can play drums better than me, it means he knows more about drums and timing etc (She doesn't realise that bass is a part of the rhythm section and not just another guitar with less strings)


And then on top of it, he rejects so much song material but doesn't give any ideas back... and tries to get us to not play certain bits because he reckons they f.ck with his timing, when if he just practiced to a metronome he'd realise that he doesn't like playing because of his own timing, not because some guitar part is screwing with him. He shouldn't even be listen to the guitar anyway... he should be listening to me!!!!!!! Arghghghhghahgahgrhgarhgrhghgrhgr!!


Maybe I can secretly slip a metronome under his pillow while he's sleeping...
id hate to say it, but the only problem you have right now is the fact that you havent given him the boot yet.

[Kosmos Tree]

Yeah, kick him out of the band; you only get "agita" from that kind of musicians

[Phototropic]

Hahahaha... yep. My drummer would fit right into that category... Sometimes I want to throw his double kick and his stupid crash in the bin so that he will work on his Kick/Snare/Hats work more.

As a bass player it gets so fricken irritating to have to practise to a clik constantly just to pull him in and keep the time... I should be concentrating on groove not keeping the time....... And he hits his cymbals way too much to cover his bad timing with a big wash of noise. It doesn't help that the guitarist has bad timing too (but he has to sing, and anyway it shouldn't matter too much if my drummer was actually listening to me instead of the melody...)


And then when he gets off stage and thinks he's played great after playing every song about 25bpm to fast so that it's all rushed........... because at least he hit all the drums in the right order (Doesn't matter that half the hits were a flam.. Ha!)Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

Then his Girlfriend backs him up and goes "Ohhhh your so wonderful and amazing" becuz she knows sweet f.ck all about playing drums and has the impression that becuz my drummer can play drums better than me, it means he knows more about drums and timing etc (She doesn't realise that bass is a part of the rhythm section and not just another guitar with less strings)


And then on top of it, he rejects so much song material but doesn't give any ideas back... and tries to get us to not play certain bits because he reckons they f.ck with his timing, when if he just practiced to a metronome he'd realise that he doesn't like playing because of his own timing, not because some guitar part is screwing with him. He shouldn't even be listen to the guitar anyway... he should be listening to me!!!!!!! Arghghghhghahgahgrhgarhgrhghgrhgr!!


Maybe I can secretly slip a metronome under his pillow while he's sleeping...

You definately need to lose that chap

Unless a miracle happens or you can pay for alternate thinking surgery, he doesn't sound like a groover or a musician, just a 'phat bwoi drumma yo'

Its good to see all the views on clicks here :)

I admit that yeah there is a certain amount of freedom lost with a click, but I'd much rather have that perfect time that never sways

[nonsense!]

Ya know what? I got one problem with playing with a click live...

What if the song changes tempo? Me and a guitarist buddy have been mucking around with a song, and the tempo of the intro is a fair bit slower than the first verse (not an equal jump either... like not 100bpm to 200 or something). What would you do in that kind of situation with a click?

Well, that's a simple simple fix. Change your note values. Faster parts, 32 notes, slower parts, quarter notes. You can work with the song and keep the whole "tempo" the same if you have some patience.

It will sound the same, but look different on paper.

[Kosmos Tree]

That will only work if it is actually the same tempo, if you have tempo changes you would have to write it down with dotted notes in weird time signatures to make it fit.

[Vespa]

To answer your question, theres no universal way of doing things.

Personally, I use a click everytime i play live in my band, for many reasons.

Get these http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/3682

And a standard metronome, easily loud enough, and sound quality is still good.

Makes my band super super tight, and you can hear it in the recording here:

www.myspace.com/telegraphs

It may not be for you, but it has certainly made my timing near perfect.

[TTTSNB]

Its very helpful to use one during personal and band practice, it will help out alot. My band and I have doing that lately, and it's been great for all of our timing.

[daku]

How can you use metronome with songs ?

[Phototropic]

How can you use metronome with songs ?

What?!

To answer your question, theres no universal way of doing things.

Personally, I use a click everytime i play live in my band, for many reasons.

Get these http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/3682

And a standard metronome, easily loud enough, and sound quality is still good.

Makes my band super super tight, and you can hear it in the recording here:

www.myspace.com/telegraphs

It may not be for you, but it has certainly made my timing near perfect.

Thanks man, they look worth investigating

Loving 'So Cold' btw ;)

[sean2332]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with practicing with a click track by yourself or even with your band, but i WOULD NEVER use one live, it seems almost cheating i want to say, but that's my opinion....

[DrummerDave96]

God, i doubt my bassist even knows what a metronome is. He cannot keep time for his life. We'd be playing crazy train and in about 5 seconds he was off by a whole measure...

Ha Ha....yeah people like that influence me to jump off a cliff.

[Vespa]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with practicing with a click track by yourself or even with your band, but i WOULD NEVER use one live, it seems almost cheating i want to say, but that's my opinion....

Thomas Lang, he's a big cheater, as is anyone who has ever played with samples and backing tracks live.

:rolleyes:

People dance and enjoy the music of bands that they can feel the groove of, if you speed up and slow down in odd places (which most amateur bands i've seen do) people cant find the groove and it sounds bad.

I want people to enjoy my band so i make sure of that by playing along to a click, thus making it groove because im on it every single beat.

Fair enough ifs your opinion but it seems you havn't thought it through.

Why do so many pros use click tracks? They dont have to, but they still do.
Because it works.

[ThugsRook]

Why do so many pros use click tracks? They dont have to, but they still do.
obviously they DO have to or they wouldnt bother.

playing to a backing track of some sort is fine (who, queensryche, etc) very understandable and unavoidable. but flat out playing to a click live just to keep solid tempo?.... you suck, pure and simple, pro or not, you suck.

[Vespa]

hahahaha. ok.

They wouldnt bother? Sorry but just because you think you can play in time doesnt excuse you from click tracks. As it doesnt when recording.

Fair enough dont use a click live, but in my personal experience and hearing from others with alot of experience, drummers that use clicks live notice the difference in the tightness of the band. For bands that want to be tight in that way, guys like RATM have major tempo changes and remain tight as anything because it changes in the right place and they change together.

So my teachers who are pro drummers who play with a click just to make sure its 100% solid timing suck too?
The ones being payed for playing drums with top artists and constantly working?

Oh yeah they suck.

Playing to a click live no matter how good you can keep tempo is seen as a good thing by pro drummers who know what they are talking about, i can play the songs with perfect tempo without a click as well, but i use one just to make sure, why the hell not? It certainly doesnt mean i 'suck'.

Fair enough some people use clicks and some dont,but to say "you suck, pureand simple" just shows you to be an idiot. You're not even in a band, so to have such a strong opinion without even trying it out is in my eyes a bit narrow minded.

Im not gonna get into an argument with someone over the internet, thats all im gonna say on the subject.

It works for me, and thats all i care about. Take it easy.

[ThugsRook]

its a crutch, its a cheat, its lame, i have no respect for it.

[Vespa]

Good for you dude :)

[styler]

hahahaha. ok.

They wouldnt bother? Sorry but just because you think you can play in time doesnt excuse you from click tracks. As it doesnt when recording.

Fair enough dont use a click live, but in my personal experience and hearing from others with alot of experience, drummers that use clicks live notice the difference in the tightness of the band. For bands that want to be tight in that way, guys like RATM have major tempo changes and remain tight as anything because it changes in the right place and they change together.

So my teachers who are pro drummers who play with a click just to make sure its 100% solid timing suck too?
The ones being payed for playing drums with top artists and constantly working?

Oh yeah they suck.

Playing to a click live no matter how good you can keep tempo is seen as a good thing by pro drummers who know what they are talking about, i can play the songs with perfect tempo without a click as well, but i use one just to make sure, why the hell not? It certainly doesnt mean i 'suck'.

Fair enough some people use clicks and some dont,but to say "you suck, pureand simple" just shows you to be an idiot. You're not even in a band, so to have such a strong opinion without even trying it out is in my eyes a bit narrow minded.

Im not gonna get into an argument with someone over the internet, thats all im gonna say on the subject.

It works for me, and thats all i care about. Take it easy.

i turned 60 and got aids in the time it took for me to read all you had to say on the subject :( youve got good points..your an idiot though.