I need a bass cab/head [Archive] - Music & Musician Forums

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:05 AM

Alright folks, I'm tired of this, I need a god damn bass cab and head.

I've been screwed out of a deal twice on this forum when trying to buy a bass cab/head. I want to get a good beginner/intermediate set-up that will last me for a few years. Can anyone please help me find a good, dependable set up for under say $800 total? Anything near $800 I may look at and perhaps purchase if the product is quality.

I've been currently looking at this:

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442764

Ampeg BA115AV (about 1 year old) $350
Crate BHX-220 (~2000?) $200

I'd perhaps buy those if the price were to be lowered, and the Ampeg has had problems with hissing, not my top choice, but it may have to work for a starting rig set up. (Not new to bass, just don't have a rig set up)

bbbbass

02-13-2006, 12:10 AM

Ashdown MAG 300 combos will do you good. Loud, economical, decent features. And you won't have to buy the head and cabs seperate.

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:12 AM

Would you recommend combo's for starting? Or would it be better to buy seperately, so in the future I can replace the ****tier of the two.

super_rad

02-13-2006, 12:15 AM

no...**** combos. they're heavy and the replacing of the ****ter one is a nice thing. i currently have an eden 2x10 cab and a nemesis 320 head, which was around 1000 and sounds ****ing nice.

Omega Red

02-13-2006, 12:17 AM

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:18 AM

I was leaning towards buying each peice seperate in the first place. Would you recommend buying cabs/heads new or used (somethings are better left bought new, and some used such as cars). Also any recommendations for cab/head that come to $800 total shipping included?

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:22 AM

i'd go with an avatar cab, and then spend the other 4-500 on an half decent head

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bass/Amps?sku=488214
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bass/Amps?sku=481490

Such as the two you listed? Any cabs you'd recommend. Like I've stated I'm not the best with Cabs/heads and how the wattage works. My luck I'd end up buying a pair that would not be used to it's full potential.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Avatar-4x10-Bass-Guitar-Amp-Cabinet_W0QQitemZ7389068037QQcategoryZ121159QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

Found this cab, but dont' want to drive 23 hours both ways.

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:25 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/SWR-Workingman-4X10-Bass-Cab-speaker-enclosure_W0QQitemZ7388728817QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

How's this Cab? I don't live far from Thunder Bay ON.

WhoDidTheElf

02-13-2006, 12:28 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/SWR-Workingman-4X10-Bass-Cab-speaker-enclosure_W0QQitemZ7388728817QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

How's this Cab? I don't live far from Thunder Bay ON.

That cabs pretty expensive for being used, I think they retail at 599? And that's an older model to I believe.

I would go with an avatar personally, they do make quite nice cabs for the money.

http://avatarspeakers.com/

~linkage.

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:33 AM

Those prices on the Avatar Site seem quite reasonable. Any recommendations towards a model? I want more of a growl/rumble, I want it so you can feel the bass not just hear it (NOT MUDDY) over clarity.

The B410 Neo has caught my attention

If I got the NEO what head will be suitable/stronger?

WhoDidTheElf

02-13-2006, 12:35 AM

Those prices on the Avatar Site seem quite reasonable. Any recommendations towards a model? I want more of a growl/rumble, I want it so you can feel the bass not just hear it (NOT MUDDY) over clarity.

Sounds like you want a 2x12" (or 1x12" for portability). They have the punch of a 10" speaker, and the rumble of a 15". Won't be to muddy, but won't have that bassy boom of a 15", and will be punchy, like a 10".

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:44 AM

Sounds like you want a 2x12" (or 1x12" for portability). They have the punch of a 10" speaker, and the rumble of a 15". Won't be to muddy, but won't have that bassy boom of a 15", and will be punchy, like a 10".

Looks like the B212 NEO would be my best bet then? Let's say for instance you're in a band and you don't want to be drowned out by the guitarists high wails, what's the best way to get through? Using 10's or 15's? And the 15's they get boomy, but they get muddy and undistinguishable (in terms of different notes) too right?

Would it be wiser to buy the Delta, or Neo for the 212? I'm currently in a mindset that the higher the handling of wattage the more powerful it is, is this true?

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:49 AM

Should I buy a 4x10 for now, and later on buy a 1x15 to balance it out?

Omega Red

02-13-2006, 12:51 AM

no the 2x12 is their best sounding cab, i'd get that and a 2x10

2x12 are louder than a 1x15 and punchier.

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:53 AM

So if I get the 2x12, what model? Neo or Delta? Again I'm confused on total wattage handeling. Neo is totalted at 600 watts RMS, while the Delta is 1k.

Omega Red

02-13-2006, 12:55 AM

neo

aarono

02-13-2006, 12:56 AM

Omega Red

02-13-2006, 01:05 AM

Can you explain total wattage handling to me? If the Total wattage handling is lower does that mean I can have less cabs connected together to get the same power from a higher total wattage handling and more cabs?
you want your amp to be stronger than your cab
you dont ever want to push your head to max because you're going to clip it.
you want to make sure you have whats called head room. but in your case you may not have much of a choice

aarono

02-13-2006, 01:07 AM

Sade

02-13-2006, 06:39 AM

you want your amp to be stronger than your cab
you dont ever want to push your head to max because you're going to clip it.
you want to make sure you have whats called head room. but in your case you may not have much of a choice

That isn't exactly correct. Underpowering a cab will cause more clipping than overpowering one. Simply because when your cab is underpowered, you have to turn up to compensate, thus causing clipping.

The more watts you have, the less you have to turn up. More watts is never a bad thing. Granted, you're not going to want to overpower too much, but it's not really a problem.

More watts=more headroom.

aarono

02-13-2006, 06:45 PM

So for the 2x12 Neo, what would be a good head that would allow for future cab additions/good headroom. Not to mention good price and quality.

Sade

02-13-2006, 06:48 PM

So for the 2x12 Neo, what would be a good head that would allow for future cab additions/good headroom. Not to mention good price and quality.

Here's what I'd do:

I'd get a decent power amp. QSC or Crown. Then, I'd add a decent preamp to it. Tech 21 Sansamp RBI comes to mind, however Ampeg/GK/Avalon/BBE all make fine preamps. The Fender TBP-1 isn't bad, either.

That way, you can control your power amp while still keeping a preamp you like.

aarono

02-13-2006, 07:08 PM

So you're recommending I skip the Avatars?

I think I mis understood. So AMP would be the basic head, while the Pre-AMP would be the more fine detailed head?

Sade

02-13-2006, 07:09 PM

So you're recommending I skip the Avatars?

No no, you'd still need a cab with a power/pre selection. Avatars are fine.

aarono

02-13-2006, 07:17 PM

I don't have a ton of money to splurge, just enough to get me going. So I'll get an Avatar Cab, but I can only order one head right now. I need whatever one will give me the best bang for my buck, and is most fitting to this cab, etc.

Rasta Rocker

02-13-2006, 07:36 PM

Where's Edgebass, he's the expert on this kind of ****. A head is the combination of a pre-amp and a power amp. What I did was I bought a pre amp (Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver RBI) and a power amp (QSC RMX850). The pre amp is what colors the sound of your bass, the tone if you will. The power amp is what it sounds like, it powers your cabinet. Pre amp/power amp set ups allow you to have more control over the tone you can get, and you can upgrade parts of it whenever you want. When I was in your shoes about a month ago, most people reccommended a pre amp/power amp set up. The type of cabinet you want is based on personal preference. I tried out two 4x10 cabinets, and they sounded completely different. I would try some out or see if anyone has a recording of their rig.

aarono

02-13-2006, 07:46 PM

Is it necessary to buy both at the same time? Or can you get by with just one, until you have enough cash to buy both?

Rasta Rocker

02-13-2006, 07:51 PM

You can't play without one of them. You plug into the pre amp, and the preamp goes into the power amp, and the power amp goes into the cabinet. So if you dont have the pre amp, you have nothing to plug into. If you don't have the power amp, then nothing is going to power your cabinet.

aarono

02-13-2006, 08:18 PM

Damn. Looks like I"ll have to spend a bit more then.

I thought I had it narrowed down to Amp and head, now I find out you need 3 things.

bassistuvdoom731

02-13-2006, 08:23 PM

Alright folks, I'm tired of this, I need a god damn bass cab and head.

:lol: not just any bass cab and head, a goddamn bass cab and head.

/inside joke

Rasta Rocker

02-13-2006, 09:33 PM

Damn. Looks like I"ll have to spend a bit more then.

I thought I had it narrowed down to Amp and head, now I find out you need 3 things.
You can go with a head, but I'd try some out to make sure that they have a sound that you like. I just like the preamp/power amp set up because its much more versatile. It can be cheaper if you buy used too. I bought a used cab and new preamp/poweramp. The preamp/poweramp costed more than the cabinet did. Check used equipment sites like ebay, craigslist, local classifieds and what not.

British Kid

02-13-2006, 10:01 PM

thanks for killing my sale everyone.........lol it's not a problem. :D

Mr. Pickle

02-13-2006, 10:35 PM

The pre amp is what colors the sound of your bass, the tone if you will.

usually, not always.

pre/power setups really are the way to go, it took me a while to realize it, but i finally did. i have a qsc 850 and a sansamp rbi. finding a head that would have the combined power handling and tone (the sansamp tone is nothing spectacular, but decent) could probably cost $6-700+ and it cost me about $450 to but together.

aarono

02-13-2006, 11:21 PM

I'm so lost/new to this as you can obviously tell. That's why I need someone to hold my hand (which would be greatly appreciated) in helping me find the right combo. Even if I found something for the right price, the wattage, handling, etc. would be so confusing I wouldn't be able to tell red from blue.

Mr. Pickle

02-13-2006, 11:27 PM

so do u want a half-stack or a combo?

aarono

02-13-2006, 11:41 PM

I'll see what I can get for a combo first. I wish there was some way I could buy one peice of the combo and get basic performance and later on buy the 2nd peice to get extended performance. If the price is right I'll go for it, and hope it will last me for a while. A long while.

Oh and Mr. Pickle where in MN do you live? I reign from the north.

WhoDidTheElf

02-14-2006, 12:26 AM

Power Amp:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Power/Amps?sku=481564

Pre Amp(s):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bass/Amps?sku=480223
Tech 21.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bass/Amps?sku=481842
Ampeg SVPCL

Both are great, I personally like the Ampeg more, but that's me.

Cab(s)
http://avatarspeakers.com/

Get an 8 ohm 2x12. And then later add an 8ohm 1x15 or 2/4x10 depending on what kind of sound you want.

aarono

02-14-2006, 12:32 AM

Ok, if I had to chose, I'm sure I'd go with the tech to save some money. Thanks for the help ladies and gentleman, I appreciate it and may it help other chumps like me :)

This ones for fun, or incase I have more money than I expected:

Now let's say I had $1500 to spend on 1 Avatar Cab, 1 Power Amp, and One Pre amp, what would you recommend.

What should I now buy to hold all this beautiful equipment?

WhoDidTheElf

02-14-2006, 12:33 AM

Bassically the same, just a more powerful power amp.

Edit: Gear doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg to sound good, though it can sometimes.

Edit2: Oh you may want to go with the GK 2002 Pre amp, the last time I check it was like 650$? I think. I don't remeber how much exactly.

jollygiantchris

02-14-2006, 03:58 AM

So if I get the 2x12, what model? Neo or Delta? Again I'm confused on total wattage handeling. Neo is totalted at 600 watts RMS, while the Delta is 1k.
another big difference (i think) between the neo and delta models is that the neo has a smaller frequency response range but is a LOT lighter weight than than deltas myself i am a pretty big mother****er so an extra 20/30/40 lbs doesnt really bother me

althought im not entirely sure on what it specifically means when i called up the avatar guy and spoke with him about sound he said that the speakers that avatar uses have a really high efficiency and are able to articulate sounds with not that much power (believe he said 150 watts+ would sound fine on the delta 2x12s which can handle up to 1k watts) however i cannot entirely substantiate that however i have a 400 watts at 4ohm head and the 2x12 delta 4ohm cab and my setup sounds absolutely fine and i really cannot complain and to date i have not needed to turn my amp up past about 5 and a half as at that volume it is deafening in the basement i play in

aarono

02-14-2006, 01:54 PM

So in terms of more power/better efficiency it's best to have a good Power AMP? I may upgrade the Poweramp another step or so, if not I'll go with the 3 peices offered by the one fellow.

Weights not an issue, so if the Delta is better but just bulkier/heavier than I will go with the Delta.

aarono

02-14-2006, 10:27 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Peavey-Max-Bass-Preamp-swr-eden-ampeg_W0QQitemZ7390863785QQcategoryZ1288QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

How's this for a preamp, and if I were to get that original poweramp mentioned and an Avatar 2x12 cab?

aarono

02-14-2006, 10:41 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TECH-21-SANSAMP-RBI_W0QQitemZ7388465329QQcategoryZ121159QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Would it be better to buy this from Ebay than Musicians friend. Says a pedal is included, etc.

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 10:45 PM

i'm from central MN. i really can find no reason why not to get stuff off the bay. that way when stuff is used most things that were defective would have been found by now and should be fixed and/or replaced by now.

aarono

02-14-2006, 10:49 PM

Although I have the money, my mother believes I'm blowing it and any price near $1,000 will make her bust a nut. So I'm just trying to make this decent as possible for both sides.

Although a pre/power amp config may be the best way to go, should I go for just a head to begin or is it really that worth it to get a combo?

I would like quick answers, because if that guy is offering more than Musiciansfriend.com I wish to buy it before it sells and worry about the rest of the gear after.

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 10:55 PM

you question are confusing. are u asking if you should get a solid state or a pre/power setup for a half stack, or are you asking if you should go for a combo instead of a half stack?

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:04 PM

I was asking: Even though a combo set up is the best in terms of performance, for a beginner with no current band would a head do fine? And if so which one. My mother's busting my balls about buying this even though I have the money.

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:19 PM

first, combo's are not the best in terms of performance. yes, a head would fine, but then you have to buy a cab as well. i would suggest finding a cab before a head.

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:28 PM

I did find a Cab. Avatar Delta B212. Now, I'm posistive I'm going to bypass the combo for the sake of it, can someone recommend a head for me? $400-$550 range.

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:33 PM

alright. get a QSC RMX850 power amp and a sansamp RBI. thats what i have going right now, and it's not too bad of a setup. i got the two items for somewhere around $450-500 ish off the bay.

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:35 PM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bass/Amps?sku=482587

How's this for a head? I'm thinking about getting just a head now. Just a head and Cab.

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:39 PM

that is a very nice head. but again, if you want bang for the buck, go the pre/power setup.

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:41 PM

Would I be getting bang for my buck via the chance to upgrade in the future?

fingerstyle

02-14-2006, 11:43 PM

If you spend xxx amount on a head and a cab that delivers xxx amount of wattage, then you're only getting more bang for your buck if you buy a preamp/power amp if you're geting more power.

But, if right from the start you don't actually NEED that much power, ie the power you'll get from a head that costs xxx, then you're really only paying for something you don't need.

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:45 PM

well yes, that and there is a ton of power combined with a nice tone for under $650 new. that is ALMOST unheard of when it comes to solid states.

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:47 PM

So for me, who may play some gigs in the future (definatly not huge or even close to be large), I should go with what Pickles said? Good cheap start up? All 3 work together wonderfully?

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:48 PM

But, if right from the start you don't actually NEED that much power, ie the power you'll get from a head that costs xxx, then you're really only paying for something you don't need.

yes, but why not spend the same if not less amount of money for the same tone yet more power. het could get that QSC pa with a GK pre for less money that the GK head and yet he could still get basically the same tone and more power. it just seems to be a much better deal in the end.

fingerstyle

02-14-2006, 11:48 PM

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:50 PM

yes, but why not spend the same if not less amount of money for the same tone yet more power. het could get that QSC pa with a GK pre for less money that the GK head and yet he could still get basically the same tone and more power. it just seems to be a much better deal in the end.

Ok, I'm not getting something here.

Here is my current thought of thinking:

If you buy a head, you're getting a "all in one" unit. Basically a power/preamp combined as one. So no need to buy more than one unit to begin playing.

Fingerstyle: What set-up would you recommend? Pickle's recommendation for the 850 QSC, and Tech I think would be good and not to mention pretty cheap compared to some of the prices I've been seeing.

A combo, is a power amp and pre-amp seperate.

Is this correct or am I wrong?

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:55 PM

True. But, IMO it's silly to invest much in a massive rig with heaps of power. In my experience the gigs that might need that much wattage, big gigs and big venues, will also feature a PA. The soundguy more often than not tells you to just turn down on stage.

Yes, you get HEAPS of headroom, but do you really need THAT much?

So it's basically my opinion, from my experience, that when going for an amp, choose one that puts out a decent tone and can handle on its own in a band practice.

you're correct, this is all opinion and i'm trying to persuade yours in anyway.

however, he can spend $650 and get a nice GK tone with a decent amount of power. he could also choose to potentially save a few bucks and also get more headroom in the process. the headroom might seem like excess wattage right now, but what if he decided to move to a stack or something?

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:56 PM

you're correct, this is all opinion and i'm trying to persuade yours in anyway.

however, he can spend $650 and get a nice GK tone with a decent amount of power. he could also choose to potentially save a few bucks and also get more headroom in the process. the headroom might seem like excess wattage right now, but what if he decided to move to a stack or something?

Are you suggesting I get the set-up you recommended earlier or just the Cab and Head (GK)?

Mr. Pickle

02-14-2006, 11:57 PM

Ok, I'm not getting something here.

Here is my current thought of thinking:

If you buy a head, you're getting a "all in one" unit. Basically a power/preamp combined as one. So no need to buy more than one unit to begin playing.

Fingerstyle: What set-up would you recommend? Pickle's recommendation for the 850 QSC, and Tech I think would be good and not to mention pretty cheap compared to some of the prices I've been seeing.

A combo, is a power amp and pre-amp seperate.

Is this correct or am I wrong?

a combo amp is a head (all in one unit) combine with a speaker that are all enclosed in one box. like pretty much all practices amps and amps like the behringer bx1200 and the fender rumble 100.

aarono

02-14-2006, 11:58 PM

So the Tech+ QSC + Cab you were suggesting is considered a stack?

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 12:04 AM

Are you suggesting I get the set-up you recommended earlier or just the Cab and Head (GK)?

well ok, i suggest getting the avatar 2x12 cab and the QSC RMX850 power amp. as far as preamps go, you have a few options, but for your price range i would either stick with the Sansamp RBI or the BBE BMax preamps. i have the Sansamp RBI and it's pretty nice and has a very warm tone.

if you go the route of the pre/power setup, you'll pretty much be set as far as powering your cab. you shouldn't really need any more power than that QSC can give off for quite some time. then by going with a pre/power setup, you can just buy a new preamp to change your tone if you dont like the one like RBI gives you. that way you dont have to worry about finding heads that have a nice tone yet meet the wattage requirements you need.

it's midnight, i'm going to bed. i'll probably stop back around 11ish tomorrow if you have any more questions for me, but i'm sure there are many other MXers who can answer your questions.

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 12:05 AM

So the Tech+ QSC + Cab you were suggesting is considered a stack?

no, it's a half stack. stacks refer to speaker cabs, not amps.

aarono

02-15-2006, 12:06 AM

Thanks Pickle, I think I'm going the QSC and TEch route.

aarono

02-15-2006, 12:19 AM

The Tech is solid state right? It says Tube Emulator, so I'm assuming so.

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 10:00 AM

i believe so

keep in mind though that it's not an amp, it's a preamp.

Sade

02-15-2006, 11:19 AM

The Tech 21 Sansamp RBI rackmount preamp is probably the best tube emulator I've ever played through. Beats out any SWR/Ampeg hands down.

aarono

02-15-2006, 10:23 PM

Ok so I got the following:

QSC Power Amp (the one you last recommended)
Tech 21rbi Pre-amp (the one you recommended)
Avatar 2x12 Neo Cab

Am I ready, do I have everything I need?

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 10:33 PM

yeah, that would be a decent little setup. all you'll need is a couple guitar cables and possibly a speakon connector to get everything up and going.

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 10:35 PM

ohh yes, and when you order from avatar (if you were planning on going through the site) did you know that you need to choose either a 4 or 8 ohm cab?

aarono

02-15-2006, 10:51 PM

Which would you recommend, if I plan on having maybe 3 cabs at the most. Perhaps 1 or 2 cabs for the coming years.

Any recommendations for good cables (for connecting the amps, etc)? I hear Speakon is good, but they look pricey. Can I use the current Axl Tweed cable I have (for the bass-Amp connection), it seems to be pretty thick?

Sade

02-15-2006, 11:09 PM

Speakon are def. the best in the long run.

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 11:10 PM

first, i dont think 3 cabs would work. 2 cabs refer to a full stack and the qsc wont be able to power 3 cabs. (well it could, but it would be unethical and would require y-adapters and stuff)

as far as cables go, the QSC only supports a bare-wire connection and a speakon connection to power your cab so you will have to either
A) buy a speakon adapter that converts a speakon end to a 1/4" end so you can plug a 1/4" cable into the cab (i believe avatars have the 1/4" and speakon inputs on the back)

or

B) buy a speakon cable to run from the QSC into the avatar.

i highly suggest using a speakon cable. they are more reliable, more sturdy, and basically more efficient in my eyes. yes, they are a little more pricey, but it would be a much easier and overall better decision.

aarono

02-15-2006, 11:13 PM

Mr Pickle. What decision would be cleantest/smartest in your view? A to me looks like the better decision. Do you have any links?

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 11:17 PM

no, B is a much better choice IMO. it's worth the couple extra dollars. what do you want a link to?

aarono

02-15-2006, 11:19 PM

To what cables I should buy. I don't know how many cables I should buy, and how many I'd need to hook all 3 peices up together.

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 11:23 PM

You'll need either one 1/4" cable, or one XLR cable to hook the RBI to the QSC.

Then you need either one speakon cable, or two speakon adapter along with two 1/4" cables to hook the QSC to your cab.

aarono

02-15-2006, 11:38 PM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/General/Accessories/Cables?sku=339033 (XlR Cable)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/General/Accessories/Cables?sku=332505 (Speakon cable)

So how's that? I suppose I don't need much cable? Just maybe 3-4 feet on each one since the cabs/amps are all going to be stacked.

Mr. Pickle

02-15-2006, 11:47 PM

yeah those should work, but you can just use a 1/4" to connect the RBI to the QSc, or just an XLR. you dont need a combo like the one u linked me to.

i'm going to bed

ciao

aarono

02-15-2006, 11:48 PM

I linked a combo, aigh aigh aigh this hurts the head.

Thanks for todays help. Tomorrow is a brand new day :)

Mr. Pickle

02-16-2006, 10:30 AM

well no, what i meant was you liked me to a 1/4" ===> XLR cable, which you dont need. you need one or the other.

aarono

02-16-2006, 06:40 PM

Can you show me a link to all and what I need?

Mr. Pickle

02-16-2006, 08:45 PM

you have the right idea. get the speakon cable that you linked me to. now you can either get an XLR cable (xlr female end on one side and an xlr male end on the onther side) or just use a normal 1/4" cable. The cable you linked me to (the XLR to 1/4" cable) will work also, but having the two seperate ends that the cable you linked me to has, isn't necessary.

aarono

02-16-2006, 08:52 PM

Do I have to get the XLR cable or will any quality be sufficient for that purpose (you said any 1/4 cable, but will it affect quality)? Also, how many feet should I get minimum?

Mr. Pickle

02-16-2006, 10:54 PM

for connecting the RBI to the QSC, a 1/4" will work fine. 2 or 3 ft would work well.

aarono

02-17-2006, 12:21 AM

I have this long *** tweed cable that looks like the 1/4" one you speak of, could I use that? I use it to hook my bass up to my current 15watt guitar practice amp.

So let me get this straight.

I'll need the Speakon cable for sure. If I get XLR, I will need one female and one male end, but if I just get any old 1/4" cable it doesn't need a male/female end? Just male?

For instance:

If I got this, this is all I would need (no adapters for female, etc):

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/General/Accessories/Cables?sku=330075

Where as if I got this, I'd need a female adapter/use a cable with built in female/male plugs:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/General/Accessories/Cables?sku=336121

Mr. Pickle

02-17-2006, 10:42 AM

no, dont make this more complicated than it needs to be... just use a guitar cable.

aarono

02-17-2006, 12:18 PM

Can someone give me a link to what I should buy? I have an idea, but I don't want to spend $20 on 3 feet of Speakon cable and end up getting the wrong stuff.

metal_bassist88

02-17-2006, 01:38 PM

Can someone give me a link to what I should buy? I have an idea, but I don't want to spend $20 on 3 feet of Speakon cable and end up getting the wrong stuff.

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/default.aspx?categoryId=81

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/General/Accessories/Cables?sku=332505

aarono

02-17-2006, 01:47 PM

All is well in Aarono land now. Thanks guys!!!!

aarono

02-18-2006, 12:24 AM

I asked Dave from Avatar which of the speakers he thought would be better, the Neo or Delta, and he didn't seem to really give me a straight answer, just told me if the amp is powerful enough I should be fine with either.

Will the Neo's 600 watt handling be enough?

Mr. Pickle

02-18-2006, 01:43 PM

dude, chill out. GET the speakon cable you linked me to originally. then just make sure you have/get a 3 ft. GUITAR CABLE. you're really making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

Mr. Pickle

02-18-2006, 01:44 PM

aarono

02-18-2006, 07:47 PM

What ohms should I get the Neo in and why?

psbassplayer

02-18-2006, 09:40 PM

sounds good, but save up a little more and get an ampeg.

Peace

-psbass

aarono

02-18-2006, 10:28 PM

Link to what you suggest. Still need an answer to my avatar question.

Mr. Pickle

02-18-2006, 10:32 PM

psbass' statement was kind of dumb, dont listen to him. get the neo in 4 ohm, there's no real reason why you shouldn't.

Rasta Rocker

02-18-2006, 10:33 PM

sounds good, but save up a little more and get an ampeg.

Peace

-psbass
When I shopped for my cabs, I played an Ampeg and an SWR...both played through the same head. The Ampeg had the worst tone I had ever heard. Its slap sounded like a tin can. So don't let brands dictate what you're buying

aarono

02-18-2006, 10:34 PM

Pickle is lower OHMS better for less cabs, so you get more power per cab?

Mr. Pickle

02-18-2006, 10:47 PM

well here's the thing. a 4 ohm cab will basically be louder than an 8 ohm. now you have to think about the future. do u ever plan on making a full stack with the avatar? if you do get the 8 ohm, becuase then 2 8 ohm cabs equal a 4 ohm load. if you get 2 4 ohm cab, thats a 2 ohm load which many amp cant handle.

basically, do you ever want to add another cab onto this one?

aarono

02-18-2006, 11:52 PM

Pickle, I'd add another cab if I got good enough to start earning money from playing bass. For now this cab would be for doodling, maybe play some gigs at pepfests, etc.

WhoDidTheElf

02-18-2006, 11:59 PM

aarono

02-19-2006, 12:06 AM

And so begins the 8 OHMS vs 4ohms war.

Rasta Rocker

02-19-2006, 12:09 AM

What if you were to get a 4 ohms and an 8 ohms? Would a QSC 850 be able to handle that

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 12:10 AM

Well more than likely you'll want to get another cab later. It's just how nature goes :P

And the volume difference between a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm cab isn't that great or I have found at least. But that just may have been the cabs I was dealing with.

But I will say this two cabs are generally louder than one cab.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 12:13 AM

What if you were to get a 4 ohms and an 8 ohms? Would a QSC 850 be able to handle that

If it can go down to 2 ohms yes.

While a signle 8 ohm and a four ohm cab is like 2.xx ohms I think (I'm to lazy to do the math and at any rate it's not below 2 ohms). And two 8 ohm cabs and a 4 ohm cab are = to a 2 ohm load.

aarono

02-19-2006, 12:18 AM

if I get another cab it won't be for atleast 3-5 years.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 12:24 AM

if I get another cab it won't be for atleast 3-5 years.

Better to have the option than not to. And if you get 2x12 or a 4x10 I think you'll have enough volume. Most volume comes from surface area of a cab, and type of speakers.

8 ohm cabs get generally 50-75% of the power of a head that goes down to 4 ohms I believe.

aarono

02-19-2006, 12:26 AM

I want a set up that will allow me to expand if necessary, but still give me a enough power to fill a small/med gig if I don't upgrade.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 12:28 AM

I want a set up that will allow me to expand if necessary, but still give me a enough power to fill a small/med gig if I don't upgrade.

Just remember watts =/= volume. And by the sounds of the rig your going to get, you should be fine. And most larger gigs have some sort of PA system.

aarono

02-19-2006, 12:55 AM

Elf so all bias aside, which would be the smarter choice for me 8 or 4?

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 01:03 AM

Elf so all bias aside, which would be the smarter choice for me 8 or 4?

From what I know and what I've heard, I believe an 8 ohm would be better choice.

Especially if your going with a 2x12 or a 4x10 or larger 6x10, 4x12 ect..

aarono

02-19-2006, 01:07 AM

Ok so 1 tally for 8 ohms, can I get some more opinions and why you think yours is right?

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 01:20 AM

Ok so 1 tally for 8 ohms, can I get some more opinions and why you think yours is right?

It's what I would do not really what's "right".

And I think Edge would know much more about this than I. But I would do this because, one you can expand later, and two the actuall volume difference won't be that great from what I've experianced. Generally though you need 10x the amount of watts to double your volume so...with that theory the volume difference won't be that great.

aarono

02-19-2006, 01:23 AM

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 01:32 AM

What would produce more volume with ONE CAB, and with TWO CABS? Will the 8 ohms be better for multiple cabs and the 4 for 1 cab?

With one cab, and my current equipment on a scale 1-10 in terms of power where would it lie?

To be honest there are so many factors involved it's kinda hard to tell. But if you took a 4 ohm 4x10 and an 8 ohm 4x10 and played them through the same amp the 4 ohm would be louder. But the difference wouldn't be that noticeable if at all.

Two cabs are generally louder than one cab. Two 8 ohm 4x10's will be louder than one 4 ohm 4x10. The reason being is with the two 8 ohm cabs you have 8 speakers pushing air. Compared to just 4 with the 4 ohm cab. This will really add A LOT of volume to your sound. The more speaker surface area the have, the more air you'll push, and thus you'll get more volume. You could push 1000 watts through a 1x10, and still not be as loud as a 4x10 with 1/4 the watts.

Edit: I don't quite get your second question...

Mr. Pickle

02-19-2006, 05:04 PM

To be honest there are so many factors involved it's kinda hard to tell. But if you took a 4 ohm 4x10 and an 8 ohm 4x10 and played them through the same amp the 4 ohm would be louder. But the difference wouldn't be that noticeable if at all.

well when talking about avatar, i dont know how big of a difference there would be since you get eith a 4 or 8 ohm cab rated at ____ ohms. however, back to what you said before, if he gets the 4 ohm version it will be better, based off of the pa. the power amp has a much higer 4 ohm rating than 8.

aarono

02-19-2006, 05:08 PM

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 05:39 PM

well when talking about avatar, i dont know how big of a difference there would be since you get eith a 4 or 8 ohm cab rated at ____ ohms. however, back to what you said before, if he gets the 4 ohm version it will be better, based off of the pa. the power amp has a much higer 4 ohm rating than 8.

Uh? Better in what ways? Double the watts =/= double the volume.

And if he's running it off a PA then it doesn't matter, it comes from the DI on the Pre amp.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 05:44 PM

I don't understand all the technicals as you know, but I don't see how there can be an arguement on this now that I think about it. For my equipment right now which is best? Not in the future if I upgrade my amps, etc. Just what is best now, and what's best if I upgrade my amps?

The thing is, one will alow you to upgrade and expand the other won't.

I've been looking at the QSC amps and they can go down to 2 ohms in stero. While it can only go down to 4 in bridged. And I'm not very good at the whole bridge and stero thing...

aarono

02-19-2006, 06:42 PM

Dave from Avatar stated that it'd be best for me to get an 8 ohms cab, since it would allow me to add more cabs in the future.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 07:05 PM

I believe it would be too.

aarono

02-19-2006, 07:14 PM

So my power would be a little bit lower, but I have more possibilities in the future?

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 07:18 PM

Yeah. But power doesn't equal volume.

Mr. Pickle

02-19-2006, 08:02 PM

Uh? Better in what ways? Double the watts =/= double the volume.

And if he's running it off a PA then it doesn't matter, it comes from the DI on the Pre amp.

pa as in power amp.

well, not necessarily double the volume, but when you run twice the wattage through the SAME cab, just at a different impedance, the 4 ohm will be louder. otherwise why would they make different impedances?

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 09:18 PM

pa as in power amp.

well, not necessarily double the volume, but when you run twice the wattage through the SAME cab, just at a different impedance, the 4 ohm will be louder. otherwise why would they make different impedances?

Yeah it will be louder, but not that much...if you use the theory 10x as many watts = double the volume. Then 2/10 more watts is only 2/10 more volume.

Like lets say it's 400 watts at 8 ohms and 800 watts at 4 ohms, then to double your volume, you would need 4000 watts at 8 ohms. 800 watts is 2/10 of 10x's. So in theory your not gaining much. And that's also saying that at 4 ohms is double the watts of 8 ohms. It's more like 4/5 than a full 100% more.

Edit: I see were your comming at though. But I'm just saying that actual increase volume won't be that noticeable.

Mr. Pickle

02-19-2006, 10:21 PM

yes, point taken. basically i'm just trying to say that it will be in fact louder. all i know is that when i run my cab at 8 ohm parallel and am now running it a 4 ohm parallel (some weird wiring was done and what-not) i can hear a quite an increase in volume, but nowhere near twice as loud.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 10:24 PM

Hmm maybe it was just the cabs I was dealing with. But at full volume it wasn't really that noticable. Oh well I think volume wise either way he'll be quite fine.

aarono

02-19-2006, 11:51 PM

Should I get casters off Avatar's site? They can only hold 100 pounds and cost $9. Should I just wait and buy a heavy duty pair of casters?

100 pound strength would be great if it's just my cab, but the amps will be ontop too.

WhoDidTheElf

02-19-2006, 11:57 PM

aarono

02-19-2006, 11:57 PM

Nah, screw it, I'll just carry this big bitch.

aarono

02-24-2006, 04:33 PM

Ok folks, everything is here finally!

Couple questions.

Do I have to use a 3-pronged outlet or can I use an adatper that converts a 2-prong outlet into a 3. I'm afraid if I use an adapter to convert a 2 into a 3 the voltage, etc. won't be correct and could lead to damage/shorts around the house (mind you I'm renting a place right now that still uses fuses).

After that question is answered, is it wise to always use a surge protecter with the gear or does it not need one? (I know TV's, etc. can suffer surges, but my computer needs a new powersupply everytime I get surged.)

Setting Power-Amp/Pre-Amp up:

What settings on both should I use? I have an 8ohms cab, but I want to utilize the equipment best I can even though I have an 8ohms cab but not two of them. I was reading on the back of my power-amp, pre-amp and I noticed there was voltage switches, cab set up options, etc. I need just a little friendly suggestion.

Also how about "Bridge Mono Mode" should I use that since I only have one cab? Should I turn on the clip limiter? What about those 50hz or 30hz filters/on/off?

According to the RMX manual, it states my Instrument cable is unbalanced due to it not having two black stripes. Anything special about this?

Finally, which two things does the Speakon cable connect, and which two should my 1/4" instrument cable connect, and which jack does my cable for my bass go into?

Thanks for the help so far folks and thanks in advance!

aarono

02-24-2006, 05:14 PM

Bump.

I know it's alot of questions, but if anyone has an answer to any of the questions please answer.

Mr. Pickle

02-24-2006, 06:28 PM

lets take this one question at a time to make sure you clearly understand it before moving on to something else.

first, the 3rd prong on those cables is a ground. i highly suggest you use something with a ground. my band once had practice in my garage and i didnt ground the main power strip we used and when we'd touch our stuff (majority of the metal stuff) and we'd get a shock.

aarono

02-24-2006, 06:31 PM

Ok, I will use a surge protecter in my living room which has a 3 prong outlet. That way it's grounded and I get protection.

I have this value pack surge protector, should I go to Menards and buy a quality one or will anyone do? It has protectino against 1250 Joules.

Mr. Pickle

02-24-2006, 06:31 PM

and which jack does my cable for my bass go into?

come on man, how many times have we gone over this stuff..?.?..

Mr. Pickle

02-24-2006, 06:32 PM

well a surge protector isn't a MUST, but it definitley wont hurt it. just make sure you always use an extension cord with a ground.

aarono

02-24-2006, 06:41 PM

I must use an extension cord? You mean those industrial orange ones? So extension or surge eh?

When I asked the jack question, I asked because on the back of my cab there's two jacks, on my power amp there's 2 jacks, and my pre amp has numerous jacks. I don't know which one my bass plugs directly into. My guess is the front of the pre-amp or back of the cab.

Mr. Pickle

02-24-2006, 06:48 PM

no, you dont need to use an extension cord, but i'm sure you'll need to someday.

sigh... really just try to think logically about this stuff. why would you plug you bass into the cab, what would power it then??? a lot of this stuff can be common sense if you just take time and think about it.

now, i know we've gone over this a few times already. bass ==> pre ===> power ===> cab.

aarono

02-24-2006, 07:11 PM

Mr. Pickle, if I knew all this would I be posting these questions? No point in getting upset, if I can clearly understand what you guys say (sometimes I can't, with slang, etc.) and then I perform it with my hands I'll understand it.

I wouldn't be posting this if I weren't afraid of damaging over $1,000 worth of equipment. I wish to make sure everything's done right.

I'm appreciative of the help, and would love more.

Mr. Pickle

02-24-2006, 07:58 PM

first of all, i'm just saying try and use some common sense. "So i have to use an extension cord?" come one man, whens the last time you bought something that required an extension cord for use? if you read through the books, they will tell you what every input/output send/recieve etc. is. just take the time to read through the books, they should give you pretty much all the info you need.

any other questions?

aarono

02-24-2006, 08:04 PM

Why did you even mention the extension cord then? I'd plan on using a surge protector all the time, so you could of simply said, "yes just use that", "always use a grounded connection". Instead you introduced more unneeded information into the equation. Also I didn't type it dumbly as you put it. "just make sure you always use an extension cord with a ground", when you say something like that it makes you sound like it's required.

Ok enough bickering.

Now, let's move on to the settings. Use mono bridge? Will unbalanced connections (1/4" instrument cable) affect anything?

Thonk

02-24-2006, 08:08 PM

Or you could invest in a power conditioner. For about 100 or so bucks. It's basically a rack mounted surge protector that regulates all the voltages and stuff. I think so anyways, haha.

aarono

02-24-2006, 08:09 PM

I still need to buy a rack, but I'll worry about that another day. I saw one on Musiciansfriend.com for $60 or, but I'm sure next time I'm out of town I can find a decent one for less than that.

Mr. Pickle

02-24-2006, 08:13 PM

i said a surge protector wasn't A MUST. the cables you get with the qsc and tech 21 are short. YOU WILL NEED TO USE AN EXTENSION CORD at sometime, trust me on this. regardless, the point i was trying to make had nothing to do with an extension cord, it was about grounding. if i would have said 'always use a grounded connection' i dont know how well you would of understood me considering you were thinking of not using one in the first place and/or even considering using a two prong.

an unbalanced signal isnt really that big of a deal. think nothing of it.

aarono

02-24-2006, 08:16 PM

Never considered using a 2 prong, my pals told me it wouldn't hurt, but I told them I shouldn't use a 2 prong outlet with adapter.

Anywho

Should I use mono bridge settings for one cab to maximize it's potential? Second, how about the filters that I mentioned earlier (30hz/50hz should I use it, or turn it off period).

aarono

02-27-2006, 12:59 AM

Everythings working awesome!

Just one last question. I get no hissing/scratching when I don't turn on the electronics of the pre-amp (so just pretty much playing the bass with no effect changes), but when I turn on the electronics the hissing begins quite rapidly as I turn up the volume.

I turned down the volume on the cab, which helped quite a bit, but when I turn up the drive or level the hissing still starts rapidly. Is it normal for hissing to start at med-high levels (starts to scream when it gets too high, makes your ears want to bleed)?

Mr. Pickle

02-27-2006, 10:09 AM

when you turn it way up, does the hissing just get louder and louder until you have to turn it down?

aarono

02-27-2006, 11:06 AM

The hissing is constant, it doesn't begin to climb up and down at a certain volume level.

For instance we'll use the following figures: 1-10 is volume, 1a-10a will be hissing.

If the volume is at 4 (middle ) I'll get maybe 1a-3a hissing (very unnoticable, must be next to cab to pick it up). But if I go to 6 or 7 it will jump from 3a, 4a, 5a, 6a (depending on what other settings I have turned on).

It's not like when it's at "7" it jumps from 5a-8a then back down, it will remain constant. The hissing is alot worse when I'm not touching the strings, but if I lay my fingers on them (much like muffled strings) the buzzing is cut drastically.