Advancend. when?

[Aktor]

Im kind of in a doubt wether i'm "good enough" to call my self an advanced drummer (on this forum).

So when are one good enough to call oneself "advanced"?

I've been playing for around 5 years. a couple of months more than 4½ to be precise

I can keep a fairly steady double bass at 160 bpm (16th notes not 16th triplets).

I dont have any problems with changing back and forth between 8th notes and triplets, however im not able to do them at the same time (i'm working on that).

im able to do the swiss triplet thing (the one with the flams) at around 100 bpm.

I'm not the best improviser (when im doing solos it's mostly just rythms and not an actual "drum solo")

I really suck playing with that jazz hand-position thingy (you know the way you hold the stick in the left hand. Like Buddy Rich and most other jazz-drummers).

I dont really know if i'm advanced. Of course it depends on who you compare to. But im just in doubt.

- Aktor

PS: sorry for bad grammars. I'm kinda lost when it comes to english grammar. not my strongest side.

[Seafroggys]

nope, your not advanced.....

[Chameleon]

Well I don't really think it's fair to say yay or nay...but for future reference: "I really suck playing with that jazz hand-position thingy" is called traditional grip! :lol:

[crazyguy832]

What's the hardest song, in your mind, that you can play?

[CasB]

When you are wondering if you're advanced, you're not.

I'm not advanced either...but I'm working on it :)

[Loser]

If you want to be really technical, there is no defined line between "advanced" and "not advanced"

[Brokensticks]

nope, your not advanced.....

Quite frank that post there :lol:

[SkaRabbit]

nope, your not advanced.....


Thats just ignorant to so no dude. You haven't seen him play so cannot judge. By the sounds of it. English isn't his language? so he might be better thn he makes out to be.

[Det_Nosnip]

Posting in the advanced forum is not about what songs you can play or how fast you are. It has everything to do with how in depth your knowledge of music is, and how effective you are at articulating yourself. Being able to think and discuss abstractly about the nature of music is important, and a proficient grasp of the basics of music theory is, for the most part, crucial. Most advanced topics will center around some form of debate or discussion in which there really is no right answer. They will center more upon the "how" rather than the what. If a topic is about analyzing a groove, for example, it's not enough to simply tab it out or display the sticking. Why did the drummer choose to play the given pattern the way that he did it? What kind of groove is he setting? Etc.

Very few, if any, true advanced topics should begin with a question, unless that question is meant to spark a discussion. Even a thread like "What is Metric Modulation?" is not really advanced...a more likely candidate would be "An in depth analysis of Metric Modulation and its real-world applications." Many advanced players...in fact, just about ALL advanced players regularly post in other sections of the D&P.

[crazyguy832]

I'm advanced in some ways... knowledge and whatnot. Not really playing ability, but other ways...

This advanced forum's kinda goofy... some people feel that anything more than mindless 4/4 banter should belong here... but... eh, I dunno.

[Aktor]

a big part of my lack of knowledge, is because of the english terms which i don't know.

And this thread was more a question when you can call yourself advanced. i see my self as an intermidiate drummer.

The hardest song I can play?... I don't know. I was thinking of Toxicity by System of A Down, but when I gave it a thought, it's not that hard actually, I just love to play it. It's hard to point out a single song thats hard to play. Pick up the pieces by Avarage White Band is pretty hard, and I don't think i'm able to pull it off as it's supposed to. Most of the song I have a hard time playing is because of the speed. Lack of tecnique is only a problem in a few of the songs (Like Pick Up The Pieces). Of course there's tons of songs that I simply don't have the skill to play, but I don't really see the point in trying to play them untill i'm better. Right now i'm working on my tecnique mostly. Trying to do triplets and 8th notes at the same time. I managed to pull it off with 8th's in the hands and triplets in the feet and the other way round but not one hand playing 8th's and the other triplets. Anyone got some tips?

[crazyguy832]

Speed comes with time, that isn't really a measure of advanced or not (except within death metal circles).

As for the polyrythm... man, that's awesome you got the 8ths and triplets between hands and feet. I would kill to be able to do that.

>_<

[Flamacue]

...

[J0llyhunter]

that polyrhythm, 3:2 or 2:3 (i get confused how you write the ratio), either way, it really isn't that hard. you've just got to feel it.

[Loser]

I love doing triplets against 8ths, I just never actually use it.

[Massik Kretal]

Yeah it's actually not that hard. I got it down and now I'm working on off beat patters on the hi hat with the snare on 2 and 4 I guess and the foot doing triplets.

[Jezen]

It's not hard, but it's fun when you add little challenges, like making the sticking/footing alternate between singles and paradiddles.

SN|R-l-r-r-L-r-|l-l-R-l-r-r-|o-o-o-o-o-o-|o-o-o-o-o-o-|
BD|o--o--o--o--|o--o--o--o--|L--r--l--l--|R--l--r--r--|

SN|L-r-l-l-R-l-|r-r-L-r-l-l-|o-o-o-o-o-o-|o-o-o-o-o-o-||
BD|o--o--o--o--|o--o--o--o--|R--l--r--r--|L--r--l--l--||


I think Ted will like that one...


EDIT: Made the first note of each paradiddle stand out in bold.

[SkaRabbit]

^ i will try that one.

[a1DrummerT]

Im kind of in a doubt wether i'm "good enough" to call my self an advanced drummer (on this forum).

So when are one good enough to call oneself "advanced"?

I've been playing for around 5 years. a couple of months more than 4½ to be precise

I can keep a fairly steady double bass at 160 bpm (16th notes not 16th triplets).

I dont have any problems with changing back and forth between 8th notes and triplets, however im not able to do them at the same time (i'm working on that).

im able to do the swiss triplet thing (the one with the flams) at around 100 bpm.

I'm not the best improviser (when im doing solos it's mostly just rythms and not an actual "drum solo")

I really suck playing with that jazz hand-position thingy (you know the way you hold the stick in the left hand. Like Buddy Rich and most other jazz-drummers).

I dont really know if i'm advanced. Of course it depends on who you compare to. But im just in doubt.

- Aktor

PS: sorry for bad grammars. I'm kinda lost when it comes to english grammar. not my strongest side.

first off..you goal should not be, "when am i advanced". Your are not if you ask this question. If you dont know the jazz hand-position thingy's name..your are not advanced. if you have been playing 5 years and cannot do a 3:2 polyrythm, your not advanced.

dont compare yourself..just learn and get better..set goals for yourself..not, "i want to play just like this guy who i think is really good"

if you cannot improvise at 5 years your not advanced

and i think you were talking about a swiss army triplet. (KNOW YOUR RUDIMENTS TO BE ADVANCED)

all i want to say is OMG:eek:

AND SORRY I DIDNT READ ANYTHING BUT THE FIRST POST SO I KNOW NOW THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ENGLISH VERY WELL ..SORRY BECAUSE I WAS SORT OF PICKING ON THAT LIKE WHEN I CORRECT THE SWISS ARMY TRIPLET.

[Josiah]

You're advanced when you can play hand to hand flams at 175.. and every other rudiment for that matter.

Flam taps at 200 though, and you're in the club for sure.

[Brokensticks]

you're advanced when you can spell advanced properly.... *cough* thread title * cough *

[Det_Nosnip]

It's not hard, but it's fun when you add little challenges, like making the sticking/footing alternate between singles and paradiddles.

SN|R-l-r-r-L-r-|l-l-R-l-r-r-|o-o-o-o-o-o-|o-o-o-o-o-o-|
BD|o--o--o--o--|o--o--o--o--|L--r--l--l--|R--l--r--r--|

SN|L-r-l-l-R-l-|r-r-L-r-l-l-|o-o-o-o-o-o-|o-o-o-o-o-o-||
BD|o--o--o--o--|o--o--o--o--|R--l--r--r--|L--r--l--l--||


I think Ted will like that one...


EDIT: Made the first note of each paradiddle stand out in bold.

The thing that I love the most about it is the fact that I've already come up with it on my own. ;) Doubles are fun as well, especially for the 3 parts like you did with the paradiddle. The road to godly independence: go through the first three pages of stick control like that. :lol:

Or, even better, do the first three pages of SC while playing a 2:3 between your feet...then do all of the stickings with your feet while keeping the polyrhythm ostinato going with your hands. If you somehow get through all of that...try it again with a 4:3. ;)

The possibilities are endless! Unfortunately, the spare time is not. :(

[Aktor]

[QUOTE=a1DrummerT]first off..you goal should not be, "when am i advanced". Your are not if you ask this question. If you dont know the jazz hand-position thingy's name..your are not advanced. if you have been playing 5 years and cannot do a 3:2 polyrythm, your not advanced.

dont compare yourself..just learn and get better..set goals for yourself..not, "i want to play just like this guy who i think is really good"

if you cannot improvise at 5 years your not advanced
QUOTE]


I try not to compare myself to anyone but it's hard with all the drummers around.

And of course i'm able to improvise, i play alot of solos and improvising when i'm playing, but i'm not good at it compared (yes I'm comparring again) to alot of other drummers. I can do my chops kinda ok, but they could be alot better.

And for the part about not being advanced with the 3:2 polyrythm; I just began practicing that about 2 weeks ago. I think it's hard to say what one should be able to to after a certain amount of time, because it depends on when you start practicing the specific tecniques/fills/whatever. There's a guy in my class who has been drumming for 8 years, and he's really an awesome drummer, but he can't play with a double-pedal/double bass drum at all, because he never really tried it. And I'm able to do that only because I started practicing it about a year ago.

[Motleyguy]

and i think you were talking about a swiss army triplet. (KNOW YOUR RUDIMENTS TO BE ADVANCED)

actually, some people know them as a "swiss triplet" when it comes to pipe band drumming, they are called swiss triplets. So don't be so quick to judge things are different in different areas, and between different styles of drumming.

[Seafroggys]

i learned it as Swiss Triplets, and that's how I call them.

[Motleyguy]

i learned it as Swiss Triplets, and that's how I call them.

as do I. God damn, and how I love them so.

[Josiah]

Swiss Army Triplet is the name... that's what it is.

[Seafroggys]

well whatever, I'm not doubting the 'official' name or anything, but I was taught one way and I feel no need to change....I mean, its just a name, and people will know what you're talking about.

Its like saying New Yorkers don't speak 'official' english or anything, doesn't mean thats its wrong, its just a different way of saying it.

And no, I think my teacher knew what he was talking about, he was a SCV vet after all.

[Jezen]

It's like the difference between sixlets and sextuplets...

[Chameleon]

Swiss Army Triplet is the name... that's what it is.

Swiss triplets is a popular name for them. I learned them as swiss army triplets but I don't exactly take offence to them being called swiss triplets.


EDIT: Was gonna say the same thing British Boy! Then I didn't...so yeah.

[Josiah]

Fine fine.. but the flam taps at 200 thing still stands!

[Jezen]

^^^
Three words:

Good luck.

















Lolz.

[Josiah]

I can. Can you? :thumb:

[Jezen]

No. :thumb:

[Josiah]

Work on it then!:thumb::thumb:

[Canadian_Drummer]

hahah dont worry about being "advanced" or not, people put "blisters" in the advanced section so its not like you have to be good or even talk about anything advanced to talk in this section

[Josiah]

That's true.. this sub forum was made to try and field more in depth conversations about drumming.

[Seafroggys]

exactly

so....what is advanced?

honestly, I think advanced is when you sit down on stage, play a song, and have some stranger come up and say you sound just like all their records (whcih, depending on their collection, could be a good or bad thing).

Not neccesarily advanced technicality, but advanced timing and feel.

[Loser]

Highly developed or complex, Being at a higher level than others, Ahead of the times, progressive, Far along in course or time.

[Josiah]

Ahh! So that's what I am...

[Det_Nosnip]

honestly, I think advanced is when you sit down on stage, play a song, and have some stranger come up and say you sound just like all their records (whcih, depending on their collection, could be a good or bad thing).

Not neccesarily advanced technicality, but advanced timing and feel.

As you said, that could be a good or bad thing. If they're an indie kid, you could have been playing for 6 weeks. :rolleyes:

[Jezen]

Pwnd.

[Josiah]

There should be a little gong that sounds. The "Pwning Gong"

[Seafroggys]

well, my mom says that when I play with my band, she says I'm on par with many other rock drummers she has seen/heard over the years, which to me is a good thing...

true, its my mom, but still :chug:

[Josiah]

true, its my mom, but still :chug:


Are you trying to say your mom likes to drink by that?

[DemonicRubberDucky]

I call myself fairly advanced. I can play triplets against eigths well, i'm pretty good at rudiments, and i'm starting to get into DB. I'm currently working on "Coup'D'Etat" by Refused, and i consider it fairly hard. Am i advanced, would you say?

[Loser]

I think it needs to be stated that playing triplets against eighths isn't advanced.

[Jezen]

Yeah. It seems that people are trying to use that one thing as a divider between intermediate and advanced.

Guess what. It's not.

[Kosmos Tree]

I try to be philosophical and say you are advanced when you are able to express emotions with your playing

[Seafroggys]

Are you trying to say your mom likes to drink by that?

no, i'm just trying to use more smilies!

[moogoogaipan]

I think advanced is when you've gone beyond certain degrees of learning.
You never stop learning, tis true, but advanced drumming is beyond 3:2 (big whoop). It's understanding how your instrument has evolved, what people are behind that evolution and why they have brought this instrument to the forefront.
Of course Advanced is also a culmination of technical ability. But not just being able to put 3:2 together. Not to bash anyone who says that, cause good job, but that's not an advanced thing. Anyone can learn 3:2, 5:2, or any advanced polyrhythm, or stick tricks in a day, but that doesn't make you advanced.
You will know when you are advanced.

I call myself fairly advanced. I can play triplets against eigths well, i'm pretty good at rudiments, and i'm starting to get into DB. I'm currently working on "Coup'D'Etat" by Refused, and i consider it fairly hard. Am i advanced, would you say?

sorry, that's really not advanced. I could play triplets against 8th since I had been playing for 6 months. They aren't difficult if you have a sense of rhythm. I'm not being harsh, i'm just saying that you should re-evaluate your level.


If you have deep musical understanding and a level of maturity to your playing that is noticeable by someone outside your circle of friends, then you are surely progressing.

[Canadian_Drummer]

I don't think it really matters just keep threads like "how to hold a stick?" or "I have blisters" off advanced

[J0llyhunter]

if you need to ask yourself whether you're advanced, you're not.

[Swiftay]

if you can do heel-toe then you are advanced


/i'm cool

[some jive turkey]

If you have already decided that you are “advanced”, then you’ve basically closed your mind to obtaining greater achievement in your abilities. (please re-read that sentence and think about it a second before you continue)

It’s easy to feel that after all the progress you might have made that you’ve earned the right to call yourself advanced. It’s easy to think that after maybe graduating from (big name) college with your music degree in hand, you’re now an advanced player. If it flatters your ego, and that’s genuinely all you care about, by all means, go ahead and do so.

But you should always know that there is someone out there that is better than you are, which means there is more for you to learn if you choose to learn it. If you truly want to become a better drummer, an “advanced” drummer, the best drummer you can be, ….then you will not think of yourself as advanced.

Labels are idiotic anyway, and there’s so much discussion on this forum centered around my ____ is bigger than yours.

[DxRocker]

EDIT: sorry for the monsterpost :p boring at work again, haha



"Advanced or not"... what a topic... what a dilema...

To me, you are "good" if you can take a certain beat and make it feel totally awesome. Then, to me, you are very good if you can take that exact same beat and make it feel totally different - while playing the same notes.

To me, you are a good drummer when you can keep decent time while grooving.

To me, you are a great drummer when you keep good time, groove good and make people dance without thinking about it.

So, I don't feel anybody (ANYbody) who is unable to "groove" and make something feel "good" is to be called a "good drummer".

So when does all this change into "advanced"? I feel like that is a combination of factors. Some people are able to make their drumpart feel incredibly awesome and groove like the best, but lack in creativity and musical knowledge (= theory). They rely solely on their personal experiance, their self-trained skills and their natural sense of rythm.

Those that I would call "advanced" are those people who:

1) are great drummers (explained above who they are, the 'groovers')
2) have a vast amount of musical knowledge (theory and gear as well, knowledge of cymbals etc is important as it defines your sound. You have to know the stuff before you can choose wich suits you best
3) can combine point 1 and 2 in their creativity to take the drums a step further and come up with new stuff that "hasn't" been done before. Those who push the boundaries of the instrument as we know it today.

So, if we look at all these points, we can conclude that their are only a handfull of real "advanced" drummers out there, of wich the King most definatly is/was Buddy Rich. Other names include: Dave Weckl, Vinni C, Terry Bozzio, Thomas Lang, Donati, etc

To me, those who are "advanced" players, "advance" the art of drumming.

And not one of them can be found on this forum. We have a handfull of GREAT players here, yes. But I wouldn't call any of them advanced.

[dairyairman]

i would not say dave weckl, vinnie, etc. are "advanced" drummers. that word is too weak. they've gone way beyond that and are literally in a category of their own, maybe "god-like" or "superhuman".

[some jive turkey]

And not one of them can be found on this forum. We have a handfull of GREAT players here, yes. But I wouldn't call any of them advanced.

I'm willing to bet that most people on this forum spend more time playing Grand Theft Auto, than practicing.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fun game, I play it ( I waste plenty of time)

But seriously ask yourself :
Which spends the most ammount of time in your hands?
drumsticks, video game controller, Remote control, laptop

How much time do you think Dave Weckl spends playing x box?

[Obelisk]

Ask yourselves this...

When someone asks you if you are a good drummer, what do you tell them?

P.S. - I hate that question.

[CasB]

Usually I say: "I'm not good, but I can drum"

[DillingerEscp]

Dont worry about if youre "advanced" just keep practicing everday, get speed up, get all your rudiments down pat... Then OWN IT

[DxRocker]

When someone asks you if you are a good drummer, what do you tell them?

P.S. - I hate that question.

I always answer that with: "I do my best..."

PS - I hate that question as well :)

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

I think we all hate that one, i also just say somthing like 'i try' or 'i do my best'