Having trouble with scales

[iamnguyen]

I have no idea how to play scales on guitar.
My friend told me if i want to improvise i need to learn scales. But i dont know how to play them. Ive been to online guides to play different scales but they only give me the tabbed out versions of scales. Am i just spose to memorise the pattern of all the scales? there must be a logical way to work out scales on the guitar right?

Also i dont understand how to play scales for different scales starting on different root notes eg. C blues scales and D blues scales. how do you work out what different notes to play for each?

[Trigger_003]

Meh. I considered copying->pasting->editing all this stuff but stuff it - you'll get it quicker this way...

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426837 takes a more basic approach to constructing the major scale and its relative minor (really explaining how keys work, but it's effective in this sense also)

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423629 <- beginner's improv lesson. Covers scale construction and then how to apply it in improvisation.

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424849 <- applying the blues scale to this process (and gives you a better understanding of how to interpret scale patterns.

Yeah... if you've got any questions after that, just let us know :).

[m0ngaa]

offtopic: hey trigger 003 just wanna say thanks for EVERYTHING that you have posted around here. I'm only new to guitar and had a bunch of questions, but just looking at the other articles you answered them all.
Cheers :chug: !!

ps:where abouts in Aust are you from?

[iamnguyen]

thx for all your help, you have answered all my noob questions. but it is still hard for me to understand but your explanation has to be one of the most simplest ive heard/seen. Im gona have to read this quite alot.

[Kirk's A Puppet]

Basically, for SCALES, play them over the root. So let's say you have a G# major or G# major pentatonic scale, play it over the G# major key. If you wanna solo over a G# minor key, use G# natural minor, or you can use the minor pentatonic.

For MODES, it's a tad bit different. You don't solo the E Phrygian mode over the key of E. Instead, you solo it over the key of C. F Lydian goes under C as well.

You better read up some more lessons, I suck as a teacher.

[WindowLedge]

scales can be hard when you're starting out, but the more you learn, the easier it becomes to learn new ones.

[judge_gideon]

I have no idea how to play scales on guitar.
iamnguyen, does this mean you don't know where your notes are on the guitar?

I mean, the fundamental reason why a "C" is a "C" is because of scales.

You should learn where each and every note is located on your guitar - without having to play them. Using scale patterns to play music is difficult unless you learn the king of all scales - C Major. It tells you where your notes are!

Just knowing C Major opens the door to all the variations and alterations.

Let's see if you know this stuff. I'll post some things, and maybe you already know them. Maybe you don't, and this will be a great learning experience.

C Major - 1st Fingering (open)

• ┌─•─┬───┬─•─┬───┬───┬───┬───┐
• ├─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
• ├───┼─•─┼───┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
• ├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
• ├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
• └─•─┴───┴─•─┴───┴───┴───┴───┘
open.................3rd fret

E ┌─F─┬───┬─G─┬───┬───┬───┬───┐
B ├─C─┼───┼─D─┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
G ├───┼─A─┼───┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
D ├───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
A ├───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼───┼───┼───┤
E └─F─┴───┴─G─┴───┴───┴───┴───┘
open.................3rd fret

┌────────────────────────0─1─3──┐
├───────────────────0─1─3───────┤
├────────────────0─2────────────┤
├───────────0─2─3───────────────┤
├──────0─2─3────────────────────┤
└─0─1─3─────────────────────────┘

____________________________

C Major - 2nd Fingering

┌───┬───┬─•─┬───┬─•─┬───┬───┐
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
└───┴───┴─•─┴───┴─•─┴───┴───┘
..................3rd fret

┌───┬───┬─G─┬───┬─A─┬───┬───┐
├───┼───┼─D─┼───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┤
├───┼─A─┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼───┤
├───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼───┼───┤
├───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼─D─┼───┼───┤
└───┴───┴─G─┴───┴─A─┴───┴───┘
..................3rd fret

┌─────────────────────────────3─5──┐
├───────────────────────3─5─6──────┤
├─────────────────2─4─5────────────┤
├───────────2─3─5──────────────────┤
├─────2─3─5────────────────────────┤
└─3─5──────────────────────────────┘

____________________________

C Major - 3rd Fingering

┌───┬───┬─•─┬───┬─•─┬─•─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─•─┴───┴─•─┴─•─┴───┘
..................5th fret
┌───┬───┬─A─┬───┬─B─┬─C─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼───┤
├───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼─D─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─G─┼───┼─A─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─D─┼───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─A─┴───┴─B─┴─C─┴───┘
..................5th fret

┌─────────────────────────────5─7─8───┐
├───────────────────────5─6─8─────────┤
├─────────────────4─5─7───────────────┤
├─────────────5─7─────────────────────┤
├───────5─7─8─────────────────────────┤
└─5─7─8───────────────────────────────┘


...continued on next post.
♪ ♫♫♪

[judge_gideon]

C Major - 4th Fingering

┌───┬───┬─•─┬─•─┬───┬─•─┬───┐
├───┼───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─•─┴─•─┴───┴─•─┴───┘
...................7th fret
┌───┬───┬─B─┬─C─┬───┬─D─┬───┐
├───┼───┼───┼─G─┼───┼─A─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─D─┼───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─A─┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─B─┴─C─┴───┴─D─┴───┘
...................7th fret

┌───────────────────────────────────7─8─10──┐
├──────────────────────────────8─10─────────┤
├───────────────────────7─9─10──────────────┤
├────────────────7─9─10─────────────────────┤
├─────────7─8─10────────────────────────────┤
└──7─8─10───────────────────────────────────┘

____________________________

C Major - 5th Fingering

┌───┬───┬─•─┬───┬─•─┬─•─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
└───┴───┴─•─┴───┴─•─┴─•─┴───┘
...................10th fret
┌───┬───┬─D─┬───┬─E─┬─F─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─A─┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┤
├───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼───┼───┤
├───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼─D─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─G─┼───┼─A─┼───┼───┤
└───┴───┴─D─┴───┴─E─┴─F─┴───┘
...................10th fret

┌──────────────────────────────────────────10─12─1 3──┐
├─────────────────────────────────10─12─13──────── ───┤
├─────────────────────────9─10─12───────────────── ───┤
├─────────────────9─10─12───────────────────────── ───┤
├───────────10─12───────────────────────────────── ───┤
└──10─12─13─────────────────────────────────────── ───┘

All of these patterns repeate progressively upward in a loop. After you play the 5th fingering, it starts back over at the 1st fingering:

C Major - 1st Fingering (12th fret)

┌───┬───┬─•─┬─•─┬───┬─•─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─•─┴─•─┴───┴─•─┴───┘
...................12th fret
┌───┬───┬─E─┬─F─┬───┬─G─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼─D─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─G─┼───┼─A─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─D─┼───┼─E─┼─F─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─A─┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─E─┴─F─┴───┴─G─┴───┘
...................12th fret

┌───────────────────────────────────────────12─13─ 15───┐
├───────────────────────────────────12─13─15────── ─────┤
├─────────────────────────────12─14─────────────── ─────┤
├────────────────────12─14─15───────────────────── ─────┤
├───────────12─14─15────────────────────────────── ─────┤
└──12─13─15─────────────────────────────────────── ─────┘

If you want to learn these, choose the first one. Play it slowly and try to memorize it and pay close attention to where the root (colored orange) is located. Don't try to learn too much at once. Take it slow.

[*EDIT: Gavin nailed me to the wall again - BUSTED! I put a Bb where it didn't belong - for the second time! But, all is well now :D ]
♪ ♫♫♪

[Trigger_003]

offtopic: hey trigger 003 just wanna say thanks for EVERYTHING that you have posted around here. I'm only new to guitar and had a bunch of questions, but just looking at the other articles you answered them all.
Cheers :chug: !!

ps:where abouts in Aust are you from?
Thanks man :)
Vic, like you. About 40k out from CBD.

thx for all your help, you have answered all my noob questions. but it is still hard for me to understand but your explanation has to be one of the most simplest ive heard/seen. Im gona have to read this quite alot.Awesome. Are there any specific areas that you don't get? I'd be quite happy to go over certain bits in more detail for you (if JG didn't just answer them).

[iamnguyen]

Nope, i think my problem was locating all notes on the guitar..ive played piano for awile and i know some scales on that (because its just up and down). But its been awile since ive played any instrument and now ive got to re-learn quite a bit. Thanks for all your help
Im from Australia too :wave:

[Trigger_003]

Yeah I think I saw you in the Aussie forum or something... Brissy wasn't it? :)

It's heaps easier once you get to know the fretboard... have you tried fretboard warrior or anything?

[iamnguyen]

nup ive never heard of that. im in NSW, although i may have lied to someone saying i was from QLD

[Trigger_003]

Haha fair enough. I'd seen you say you were from Aussie anyway

http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior/fretboardwarrior.html
It's a free program that plays a note, shows its position on the fretboard, and you've gotta identify what note it is. It helps with improving your ear too.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Basically, for SCALES, play them over the root. So let's say you have a G# major or G# major pentatonic scale, play it over the G# major key. If you wanna solo over a G# minor key, use G# natural minor, or you can use the minor pentatonic.

For MODES, it's a tad bit different. You don't solo the E Phrygian mode over the key of E. Instead, you solo it over the key of C. F Lydian goes under C as well.

You better read up some more lessons, I suck as a teacher.
Ab major.

[EdwardTheGreat]

I've only just fgured out an easy way. You need to learn the minor pent, the major pent., the blues, the natural minor and the major. Each one of these has a pattern and all you need to do is learn the fingering. eg. the minor pentatonic is 1,4-1,3-1,3-1,3-1,4-1,4 The numbers are your fingers, and - means change string. Basically wherever you put your first finger on the E string is what scale it is. So if you put it on the 5th fret, which is the note A, you are playing the A minor pentatonic. If you put it on the 7th fret, which is B, you are playing the B minor pentatonic. So all you need to do is learn the 5 seperate fingerings, and thats all you really need to start. Hope that made sense.

[Tiadonic Nissodance]

┌───────────────────────────────────────────12─13─ 15───┐
├───────────────────────────────────12─13─15────── ─────┤
├─────────────────────────────12─14─────────────── ─────┤
├────────────────────12─14─15───────────────────── ─────┤
├───────────12─13─15────────────────────────────── ─────┤
└──12─13─15─────────────────────────────────────── ─────┘

If you want to learn these, choose the first one. Play it slowly and try to memorize it and pay close attention to where the root (colored orange) is located. Don't try to learn too much at once. Take it slow.
♪ ♫♫♪

Dude, you keep putting Bb's in there.

[Kurrpt]

how the fukk does that dude tab like that :amazed:




we should have you do SCALES of the week, and tab like that

[Tiadonic Nissodance]

Just quote him and check out the fonts and stuff he used.

He puts a lot of effort into it. Kudos to him for that.

[Kurrpt]

damn!


after looking at the code, that dude puts WAY too much time in, or he copies and pastes with precision

[Tiadonic Nissodance]

:p.

[judge_gideon]

Gavin! Your "Diatonic" name is gone? Yikes - I won't even ask what you did to deserve this :D

You're right - this was a re-post from a previous thread, and it was the same pattern you caught last time! I never changed the .txt file I have in my folder. I guess I should have looked it over again -

it's the revenge of the Bb's!

How are you doing my friend?

[judge_gideon]

kurrptsenate, Heya bro

I went through all of the Alt text codes and found that there are Unicode symbols for drawing boxes. All of them work well with the "Lucida Console" font, since each character gets the same width - everything is metered out nicely.

Then, I just made a few of them like for chord blocks and tabs, tabs with barlines, and put them in an auxillary .txt file for quick copy & paste. Then I insert the numbers and dots or whatever.

It makes nice chords:

C Minor Barre
┌───┬─3─┬───┬───┬───┐i
├───┼───┼─4─┼───┼───┤m
├───┼───┼───┼─5─┼───┤p
├───┼───┼───┼─5─┼───┤r
├───┼─3─┼───┼───┼───┤i
└───┴───┴───┴───┴───┘x

Makes cool Tab examples:

┌──0───3───1───0───────┐
├──1───0───1───3───────┤
├──2───0───2───0───────┤
├──2───0───3───2───────┤
├──0───2───3───2───────┤
└──────3───1───0───────┘
.....Am.....G.......F......Em7

And, you can insert barlines:

┌─────────┬──────────────────┐
├─────────┼──────────────────┤
├────(7)──┼──5───────────────┤
├─────────┼────7─6─5──(sl)───┤
├─────────┼──────────8─\─────┤
└─────────┴──────────────────┘

You can even make a 12-fret fretboard diagram (the forum won't allow longer text strings, so this is maximum):

C Harmonic Minor
.┌─F─┬───┬─G─┬─Ab┬───┬───┬─B─┬─C─┬───┬─D─┬─Eb┬ ───┐
B├─C─┼───┼─D─┼─Eb┼───┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼─Ab┼───┼───┼ ─B─┤
G├─Ab┼───┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼─D─┼─Eb┼───┼─F─┼───┼ ─G─┤
D├─Eb┼───┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼─Ab┼───┼───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼ ─D─┤
.├───┼─B─┼─C─┼───┼─D─┼─Eb┼───┼─F─┼───┼─G─┼─Ab┼ ───┤
.└─F─┴───┴─G─┴─Ab┴───┴───┴─B─┴─C─┴───┴─D─┴─Eb┴ ───┘

Or, you can create a diagram using dots for notes:

C Major 1st Fingering (12th fret)
┌───┬───┬─•─┬─•─┬───┬─•─┬───┐
├───┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼───┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
├───┼───┼─•─┼───┼─•─┼─•─┼───┤
└───┴───┴─•─┴─•─┴───┴─•─┴───┘
...................12th fret

Here's a breif list of these Unicode symbols and how to use them. You must hold down the ALT key on your keyboard while typing on the number keypad an ASCII number code. Then, you release the ALT key when you are done typing the number. This creates the ASCII text symbol.

Typically, it's a 4-digit number. The number row on the standard typewriter section of the keyboard doesn't work - you must use the number keypad on the right-hand side.

There may be other number codes to produce these results, but these are the ones I have found by trial & error:

ALT + 6836 = ┤
ALT + 6847 = ┐
ALT + 6848 = └
ALT + 6849 = ┴
ALT + 6850 = ┬
ALT + 6851 = ├
ALT + 6852 = ─
ALT + 6873 = ┘
ALT + 6874 = ┌
ALT + 0149 = •

It does take a bit longer to produce these results, but I believe they are well worth the time. Clean is good!

♪♫♫♪

[Kurrpt]

damn right man :thumb:



every week, you should cover a different scale. Id print it out and learn em

[judge_gideon]

kurrptsenate,

I would like to post in the lessons area - But, I want to post relevant info that hasn't already been covered. So, until I read everything there, I don't want to make the mistake of being redundant.

I did submit this Unicode tutorial in the lessons section, but it's pending review or something like that.

I got a message flashed on the screen that said something like that when I posted the tutorial, but it didn't stay on the screen long enough for me to read it entirely. So, I guess I'll find out soon enough.
♪♫♫♪

[Kurrpt]

I C


well, if it doesnt make it into the lessons sections, you could just make a thread in the regular guitar section. It would go over well. Im telling ya

[iamnguyen]

yeh this is heaps better then the lessons forum
keep up the good work! :thumb:

[Kurrpt]

haha thats doesnt say much :lol:

[Trigger_003]

Now I know what you're talking about with how people don't usually look at links JG :upset:
:p

[judge_gideon]

Trea,

Yep, I post links to my website, and I can track the traffic - no one clicks on them :D

[Trigger_003]

I track my traffic and people go to mine...

The beginner's song list for example has had about 2k hits in about 20 days.

[Alive]

I track my traffic and people go to mine...

The beginner's song list for example has had about 2k hits in about 20 days.

What the hell? Is it always that busy? Damn, maybe you should get some advertising...

Edit: Also, completly off topic, is playing classical or flamenco with a pick looked down on?

[Trigger_003]

It depends who you talk to. I won't, but then, I will tell you that using a pick instead will restrict you. If you're going to do it properly, you're going to want to be able to fingerpick instead (rasgueados for instance can require you to use up to all of your fingers on your right hand to strum with... doesn't really work with a pick ;)). You'll miss out on a heap of techniques and stuff if you don't use it, and with all the counterpoint, 4/5 note chords etc., a pick will make it a lot more difficult in the long run.

Then again, you can do like Amit at least used to do, and fake it with a pick. Al di and JMc use picks and they can play along with deLucia's stuff...
But I'd still go with fingerpicking :).

Beginner's song list... yeah it is pretty crazy. I've been getting 100 hits minimum each day of the weekend (which is obviously the peak time for that kind of thing). I only put up a stat counter on the 6th and seeing that's about 6 months after I started it, I assume it's pretty much like that all the time.

Yeah, maybe I should look into ads.
Haha maybe I could get some traffic in to my band's website too (when I eventually finish it)
/schemes

[Tiadonic Nissodance]

Gavin! Your "Diatonic" name is gone? Yikes - I won't even ask what you did to deserve this :D

You're right - this was a re-post from a previous thread, and it was the same pattern you caught last time! I never changed the .txt file I have in my folder. I guess I should have looked it over again -

it's the revenge of the Bb's!

How are you doing my friend?
Haha, fear not - for I will have my old name back in less than two hours!

I had to re-register because I couldn't go a day without MX ;).

Aside from that, I am well thank you. Yourself? How was your Christmas?

Edit: Also, completly off topic, is playing classical or flamenco with a pick looked down on?
I'm not as sure about flamenco, but to play classical with a pick would be to the detriment of your progression through the style.

[Trigger_003]

I'm not as sure about flamenco, but to play classical with a pick would be to the detriment of your progression through the style.
Tr00f for flamenco too.
Possibly even more so actually. A lot of the techniques have been taken from classical and then adapted... like the classical tremolo is performed somewhat like a quadruplet, whereas the flamenco one is more like a quintuplet, etc. etc.

That's probably not what you want to hear eh Simon? :p

[Tiadonic Nissodance]

Hey Trea did you check out those songs I uploaded a while ago in Jam Sesh Community fred?

[thenewaria]

i kno a dood in internet land that plays flamenco wit a pik real gud

an i kno a famous dood that ply clasical real wel wit a picwww.remiboucher.com

but yer dont do it

an yer using pinky in flamenco is outdated nobody use it ne more

[Trigger_003]

I only use my pinky for 5-stroke rasgueados n stuff.

Yer Gav, they were sweet :D.

Gotta go - my parents are limiting the time I can spend on Mx now... as if banning msn (supposedly a temp. ban... that's gone for a month?) wasn't enough :(.

[thenewaria]

yer i duno ne thin about flamenco but my friend www.aloysiusleeson.com in my guitar trio tells me using pinky in rasgeudos is way outdated an nobody ever uses it ne more for like the last 20 yrs

[Trigger_003]

Alright, thanks again.
What's with me buying all these books that tell me outdated techniques? Dammit :(.

[thenewaria]

yer i duno if its tru or not but i tak his word 4 it hes lived in spain an made a livin off flamenco guitar in seville now lemme tel u that aint easy

[judge_gideon]

Aside from that, I am well thank you. Yourself? How was your Christmas?

Awfully busy - but great nonetheless - spent time with my brother and two sisters.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Sounds good. Glad you enjoyed it, :thumb:.

[Trigger_003]

yer i duno if its tru or not but i tak his word 4 it hes lived in spain an made a livin off flamenco guitar in seville now lemme tel u that aint easyJee, I bet. I'll look into it :)