Accent-Tap help

[ECTWest]

Hey everyone. Merry Christmas! I need some assistance. My teacher gave me an accent/tap exercise this week that I need to be able to do obviously for next week. He wrote it as 8th notes divided into groups of 3,3, and 2. The accents are bold numbers, and are to be played by changing the stick height to 12". The taps are at 3". So you aren't using a whip motion for the accents-- just controlling the stick heights as in a stick control exercise:

1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2|

The sticking is all rights, then the exercise is repeated with all lefts. (Then he moved the accents around to change up the exercise.) My question is, I'm having trouble controlling the bounce on the accents. When I bring the stick down from 12" it bounces back to about 6" before returning to 3", which my teacher doesn't want. He just wants the stick to return to 3" from the accents so I can develop better stick control. Any tips or advice on controlling the bounce? I'm using matched grip.I know I can't be the only one to have ever had this problem :-P. Thanks!

Ect

[Massik Kretal]

Just focus on your fingers. Let them be as close to your palm as possible without gripping the stick so tight it hurts.

[tapioca]

mh, I'm not too sure what you mean with 'whip motion', but I think you're speaking of some kind of Moeller. I haven't had any formal instruction on it, but I can apply it in some sort of way, especially for such tap accents. so why don't you think you can use that whip motion? it would be like accent, tap, tap. you can control the stick height by squeezing the stick a bit more (as much as you need to, or if it's too difficult bring the stick down slightly with your wrist, so that you don't need to squeeze off all the rebound and you don't need to absorb the whole force with your hand).
also start slow of course.

[LittlePound]

at least for slower speeds use all wrist to control the motion of the stick, while learning be very stacato (very controlled, stiff, stick doen'st have a lot of room to move on it's on) with it. Just start out real slow and bring down the accent and don't use the bounce, manually bring the stick back up to three (at slower speeds it'll be a whole lot easier) and is you get used to it and speed up you can get more legato (loose, relaxed) with it

[ECTWest]

Thanks for your help. I'll keep working on it, probably take it a bit slower like you said. Thanks again!

Ect

[Sohcahtoa]

at least for slower speeds use all wrist to control the motion of the stick, while learning be very stacato (very controlled, stiff, stick doen'st have a lot of room to move on it's on) with it. Just start out real slow and bring down the accent and don't use the bounce, manually bring the stick back up to three (at slower speeds it'll be a whole lot easier) and is you get used to it and speed up you can get more legato (loose, relaxed) with it

It's never a good idea to imply to someone learning that they should be stiff. While I can possibly see where you're coming from...you want everything to be relaxed, all the time. Being stiff is a fabulous way to produce a horrible sound and to hurt yourself. Playing lower is simply a smaller motion than playing high, not a STIFFER motion.

[Senseless Apprentice]

When playing accented notes, my teacher advises to "catch" the stick so that it's ending position is not 12" off the head, but 3". Me personally, when I accent, and need the stick to be close to the head, I tighten my grip on it a little bit right after it hits, so that it does not have the liberty to bounce up the full 6", but instead stays rather close to the head. Just like everything else, this takes practice to get down well.

Well, maybe that helps. Good luck!

[LittlePound]

It's never a good idea to imply to someone learning that they should be stiff. While I can possibly see where you're coming from...you want everything to be relaxed, all the time. Being stiff is a fabulous way to produce a horrible sound and to hurt yourself. Playing lower is simply a smaller motion than playing high, not a STIFFER motion.
i wasn't per se telling him to be stiff, i was trying to explain to him what "stacato" was just in case he dind't know (most people here don't seem to) i didn't mean stiff by defiinition, i meant a more controlled, less rebound used, tighter, less relaxed grip...that's what stacato is...you're basically squeezing the stick harder and using a lot more wrist to control it...

[dpakman91]

buddy rich's book says that added height on the stroke shouldn't be used for accents beacuse it develops bad habits, that a snap of the wrist is the proper motion, with all strokes at the same height.

anythoughts on that versus thsi exercise that the thread starter listed?

[Josiah]

Very common excerise.

Excellent for building chops.

You just have to gain the control at lower speeds, then slowly bring the tempo up so long as you can maintain that control.

It's really a VERY simple concept. Start with the click on say quarter note = 60. Get it perfect at that speed, then move to say 67bpm.. then say 72.. etc..

That's really the only way.

[LittlePound]

buddy rich's book says that added height on the stroke shouldn't be used for accents beacuse it develops bad habits, that a snap of the wrist is the proper motion, with all strokes at the same height.

anythoughts on that versus thsi exercise that the thread starter listed?
buddy rich also wasn't a fan of using your fingers, he believed it was all wrist...but do we listen to everything he says as gospel truth today...obviously not

[Det_Nosnip]

Yeah, Senseless got it. You need to work on your "catch." Squeeze tightly just enough to stop the stick and then immediately release...you can hurt yourself if you remain too tense and let the shock enter your wrists. The goal is to remain as loose as possible while still achieving the desired control.

[Det_Nosnip]

It's really a VERY simple concept. Start with the click on say quarter note = 60. Get it perfect at that speed, then move to say 67bpm.. then say 72.. etc..

That's really the only way.

...to do ANYTHING. ;)

[ECTWest]

Ah thanks again. I think it's time for the metronome now that I have the basic idea. My old teacher never worked on stuff like this with me...I felt so stupid when this teacher was just like "Just put the stick down after the stroke" and I kept letting it bounce back to 6". Just so I don't sound like a complete noob... I'm also working out of Billy Cobham's book "By Design"-- it's just that we're going to go back to the basics for my hands and working on speed/accuracy/endurance. Stick Control and exercises like this, I think.

Ect

[Panopticon]

12" is pretty insane...

[Cheungman]

12" is pretty standard for an sticking excercise

[LittlePound]

yeah especially for marching snare stuff, we play at 12" and 9" all the time, especially for accents

[Massik Kretal]

How can you tell how high your stick is? I'm bad at estimating.

[Josiah]

...to do ANYTHING. ;)


Haha well.. yea..

Ted and senseless are also correct, once you start getting the stick movign and using bounce and such you'll hvae to develop the "catch" off the rebound to keep the stick down.

It's a very natural technique wich will stem from gradual increase in tempo.

[Pearldrumguy]

I'd say 9" is about a 45 degree angle. 12 around 70 degrees and 15 90 degrees. 6 is 30 degrees and 3 is parallel with the head. Watch out for the inner beat make sure it is in time. It should be constant 8ths. People often don't realize it but their tap accents are out of time. A good way to get control and timing is to put what I call a crutch in. Put your left hand in all the rests when do accent tap with your right and vise versa. When you accept the rebound do not death grip the stick but cusion it with your fingers(this doesnt nessasarily mean move your fingers). This exersice is all wrist. Do not use fingers on accents or inner beats. Just use them to make the stick stay down. You want an open sound, not choked off. Sorry if i didnt explain it well. It's easier to show than tell.

RlrlrlRlrlrlRlr-LrlrlrLrlrlrLrl-

[rohbit]

...to do ANYTHING. ;)

Once again, Det has pushed the boundaries of good taste... for that he gets a :chug: .

[Pearldrumguy]

[QUOTE=Senseless Apprentice]Me personally, when I accent, and need the stick to be close to the head, I tighten my grip on it a little bit right after it hits, so that it does not have the liberty to bounce up the full 6", but instead stays rather close to the head. [QUOTE]

Doing this causes a choked off sound in the note. People often choke the 8th note on 8 on a hand before the transition(hand switch) and it makes it have bad sound quality.

[LittlePound]

Me personally, when I accent, and need the stick to be close to the head, I tighten my grip on it a little bit right after it hits, so that it does not have the liberty to bounce up the full 6", but instead stays rather close to the head.

Doing this causes a choked off sound in the note. People often choke the 8th note on 8 on a hand before the transition(hand switch) and it makes it have bad sound quality.
It does choke the sound a bit, and obviously if it does that it changes the consistency of sound...i'm not saying it's really bad, just not the best.. you probably wouldn't ever notice it on drumset even but in marching stuff when you're trying to sound the exact same as 6 other players it'd stand out...my suggestion...work on "proper" (not changing your grip) accenting for personal gratification, no one else will really ever notice though..