which to get?!? jaco or weather report?!?

[a5thdiad]

okay, so i'm getting ready to make my first jazz album purchase and wasn't sure what to get. i'd really like to get something by jaco pastorius, but couldn't decide between weather reports "heavy weather" or his solo debut.

i listen mostly to hard rock, so probably whichever of the two rocks the most would be the best one to get first.

any other suggestions would be great as well! thanks.

[Woodstock]

You'll enjoy Pastorius' album more if you're a bassist IMO, but if not, I'd go for Weather Report.

[Chameleon]

Emm, I'm not even going to try and consider which of these is better for a 'hard rock' fan....but I personally much prefer Jaco Pastorius.

[joshmay]

weather report, definitely


i think so anyway. the band jams, man. jaco isn't the only great musician that you'll hear on a weather report record

haha and on some of the good ones you wont even hear him

[a5thdiad]

cool beans (is that a jazzy phrase? haha, just kidding.).

thanks, i'll be sure to think about it. (and yes, i'm a bassist!)

[Bryan Blakey]

okay, so i'm getting ready to make my first jazz album purchase and wasn't sure what to get. i'd really like to get something by jaco pastorius, but couldn't decide between weather reports "heavy weather" or his solo debut.

i listen mostly to hard rock, so probably whichever of the two rocks the most would be the best one to get first.

any other suggestions would be great as well! thanks.

I prefer his self-titled album over Heavy Weather, but the latter is still an awesome album.

[jazzfunkboy]

i think his playing is much better on live recordings. check out the birthday concert or invitation of jaco's own stuff, and also check out weather report's 8:30. id rank them all at the same level so its really up to you.

[StrangelyBrewed13]

I prefer jaco pastorius myself.

[gregjazz]

I'd prefer Jaco, but really either choice isn't a bad choice at all. :)

[Eman Ruoy]

Jaco, no doubt. Why? Because he's a better composer than Zawinul.

[BassIsTheSoul]

theres more of a variety on heavy weather
its one of my favorite albums and has a lot of good musicianship. and everyone reallly good not just jaco

:smash:
-pat

[Eman Ruoy]

Actually, I'm ashamed I own Heavy Weather. Birdland, the biggest jazz hit of all time? It's catchy as hell but I hate it, don't know why... The entire album is just a bundle of poorly written tunes. Well, I'm sure it's well written...whatever I just don't like weather report. It's what I like to call crappy fusion. In fact, a lot of fusion is actually crappy jazz. Crappy, but I like some of it.

[Biz]

Actually, I'm ashamed I own Heavy Weather. Birdland, the biggest jazz hit of all time? It's catchy as hell but I hate it, don't know why... The entire album is just a bundle of poorly written tunes. Well, I'm sure it's well written...whatever I just don't like weather report. It's what I like to call crappy fusion. In fact, a lot of fusion is actually crappy jazz. Crappy, but I like some of it.

ARE YOU SERIOUS! What is fusion to you then. Fusion originally was just a bunch of bundeled up music. You ever listened to Miles Davis "Bitches Brew." That is what fusion was originally, no melody. Then Hancock decided to do some more stuff with it, thats when he came out with Headhunters. You have to remember, this stuff came out in the 60's. Weather Report came out in 1977. This was just when synth started to get big. Without weather report, Jaco would have been nothing. If you even know anything, if you listen on Birdland, Jaco does SO MANY artificial harmonics. He was the first to explore that. Its not about if it is good or not, its about the musicality. If you aren't a musician, then I understand. You have to try to play Jaco to understand it, you have to try to play Zawinul to understand. So I challenge you to try it, and when you get that stuff mastered, then come back on here and say its a crappy.

[DemBonez]

Your uhh... timeline is a bit off. Alot of fusion albums predated Bitches Brew and many of them were very melody oriented. Tony Williams' stuff comes to mind, Electric Flag comes to mind, and Miles' earlier fusion efforts come to mind. If memory serves me right, Hancock's first attempt at "fusion" was Maiden Voyage where he tried to incorporate rock rhythms to his playing. Even if you don't buy that, Mwandishi was a good four years before Headhunters (which wasn't in the 60's but the mid 70's). Weather Report's first album came out in 1971. While I agree with a lot of what you said, you have your history mixed up a bit.

To call Jaco a better composer than Zawinul feels wrong on so many levels. Jaco wrote one solid album and was much more important to his instrument than Zawinul. Zawinul just wrote or helped write too many great tunes. "Birdland" is seemingly played by every jazz musician, "In A Silent Way" is respected by everyone, and no one can deny the awesomeness to "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy".

[Biz]

Yeah, I know most of what you said, I just left it mostly out. When I said weather report, I was talking about Heavy Weather becuase the guy was dissing Heavy Weather it self. And yeah I know all about Maiden Voyage and that stuff. That was fresh when he left Miles Davis. And Headhunters was 73,sorry about that. I was perosnally thinking of Fat Albert Rotunda, which came out in 69, which pesonally is my favorite Hancock album. Thank you for correcting me though.
-Biz

[Terminal_Frost]

have you given any thought to purchasing the 'Punk Jazz' anthology? thats awesome

[boog3ee]

weather report, definitely


i think so anyway. the band jams, man. jaco isn't the only great musician that you'll hear on a weather report record

haha and on some of the good ones you wont even hear him

while i agree that some great muscians played in weather report, the ensemble that got to record on Jaco's debut were unmatchable; from wayne shorter to herbie hancock to don bayes to name a couple, and with Jaco in the center the album is immaculate, while i can't name a weather report album that doesnt have at least one or two rather boring tracks...
cheers!

[portrait of john]

hi there, either choice is a great one. On the one hand, if ou go with jaco pastorius selftitled you will be witnessing brilliance in every way imaginable. Not only is there jaco , but also herbie and herbert laws and lenny white on drums etc etc.... and to the person who wrote some bs about heavy weather and weather report being 'crappy jazz', you really dont appreciate music for what it is. All that needs to be done is listening to "a remark you made" which is ultimately the greatest jazz ballad or any ballad for that matter evr written. I mean , who could not appreciate the singing quality of jaco's fretless and waynes beautiful sax. It is a masterful piece of music worth the cost of the whole cd on its own.

Jaco was an unbelievable composer, personified through continuum. Get out there and experience jazz and please reject any false suggestions of "crappy fusion".

My advice is to get both albums, they pawn....

[Kimsa]

Chameleon.... Herbie hancock fan?

[Kimsa]

Chameleon... Herbie Hancock fan?

[Lady Lex]

Go for Weather Report. Jaco is my god, but Weather Report is ftw.

Night Passage makes me die a million deaths...

[We No Speak]

That's a pretty interesting dilema... A hard rock fan trying to choose between Jaco and Weather Report? Forgive me, but how did you come to that choice?

Jaco was the "Hendrix" of Bass players and like Hendrix is either worshipped or at least respected.

Weather Report on the other hand was the Jazz Rock pioneer brain child of Zawinul, Shorter, and Vitous that eventually became incredibly successful well before Jaco joined the band. In fact, if memory serves, Jaco didn't know how to compose until Zawinul taught him. In addition, Weather Report fans are clearly divided about whether the band was better with or without Jaco.

While Weather Report was Jaco's vehicle to stardom, it's not clear that his best work was with the band or on his own. Zawinul and Shorter knew they had a star on their hands and appropriately gave him the opportunity to blossom.

So, I'm not sure how a choice could be made between Jaco or Weather Report. They both stand tall on their own and arguments can be made and justified either way. Ultimately its so subjective that the choice is practically moot. HeII, get more of both, don't narrow it down to Heavy Weather or Jaco and enjoy!!

[Eman Ruoy]

ARE YOU SERIOUS! What is fusion to you then. Fusion originally was just a bunch of bundeled up music. You ever listened to Miles Davis "Bitches Brew." That is what fusion was originally, no melody. Then Hancock decided to do some more stuff with it, thats when he came out with Headhunters. You have to remember, this stuff came out in the 60's. Weather Report came out in 1977. This was just when synth started to get big. Without weather report, Jaco would have been nothing. If you even know anything, if you listen on Birdland, Jaco does SO MANY artificial harmonics. He was the first to explore that. Its not about if it is good or not, its about the musicality. If you aren't a musician, then I understand. You have to try to play Jaco to understand it, you have to try to play Zawinul to understand. So I challenge you to try it, and when you get that stuff mastered, then come back on here and say its a crappy.
You're just spitting out facts at me and making no real argument. You have to be able to play artificial harmonics to be a musician? Huh??? I've played Zawinul. It's fun, but I'm not a big fan. Get it in your head that music is very subjective. Birdland is the most popular jazz tune in the the history of jazz. I don't understand why.

[Naveed Afzal]

I enjoy weather report stuff way more then jaco.

im not going to get involved in the pissing contest but i will say....

Joe Zawinul is a genius, I think his best work is with weather report. I mean the Zawinul Syndicate is cool and all but it sometimes sounds a bit cheesy.

My Favorites are Blackmarket and Heavy Weather.
Favorite tracks: Birdland, Mercy Mercy Mercy, Havona, Barbary Coast, and Cannonball.

[TheDMV]

The work on his solo debut is hard to beat, but if you are a bassist: why not just get both?

[Munky_Jam]

I'm not going to get into this argument, but i will say check out the live Joni Mitchell album he's on for some amazing sideman work.Cool shi.t gotta be the live one though

[pipe]

ok, jaco's debut is amazing. but if you're a hard rock fan, i'd start with black market. its really funky, and it could help you get more into wr. jaco's in a couple of songs, though. i'd get both, for starters. and if you wanna hear some amazing sideman playing, try getting pat metheny's bright size life. its awesomne, and jaco plays beatifully on that album.
but if you're trying to get into fusion coming from a rock background, i'd check out hymn of the seventh galaxy by return to forever. its brilliant, made me change my mind on fusion, coming from a rock background myself. i loved acoustic jazz, i mean, hard bop, post bop, etc. but that record changed my whole perspective about how jazz can be mixed with electric instruments and sound hard, not only strange and confusing (see bitches brew). then came the mahavishnu orchestra, but that's another story.

[if_jaco_was_punk]

My first post in a jazz topic! Yay! I'd rank them both as great albums that are quite diferent to each other but better bass on Jaco's own. Some people are massivelly put off by the keys in some weather report stuff but I think it's all right.

[nopicks4me]

im a bassist. get jaco