Matching Drum tones & colors to cymbals

[Det_Nosnip]

Ok. This could be considered an "advanced gear topic," but, since we don't have an "advanced gear" section and because the point of this thread is intelligent discussion, I thought I'd place it in here. Basically, what I wanted to discuss was approaching the construction of a well balanced and great sounding drumkit, in terms of tonal balances between cymbals and the drums, as well as the applications of different colors and sounds for different styles of music.

I'll give a few typical examples to start:

Typical rock/metal/etc. Very low, "deep" drums. Usually at the lowest possible tone of the drum or even de-tuned/finger tight. Sometimes a very high/cranked snare drum. High, pingy, bright cymbals. Quick decay/stacatto, strong attack. Extreme example: trashy, loud china. Lines: Sabian AAX, Zildjian Zs, Paiste Rudes.

Typical jazz setup. Usually high tuned drums, low and dark cymbals. The opposite, basically. Much more legato in phrasing, with longer sustain and fade. Extreme example: flat-top ride with rivets.
Lines: Zildjian K's, A's, Constantinoples, Sabian HHX, Paiste Signature series

Fusion/prog rock. Both tend to favor similar tones, with differences being in attack and volume, I suppose. Tends to go for a mid-range in drums. More funk-orientated fusion will have lower and fatter tones, as will more metal-orientated prog. Wide range of cymbals or versatile/multi purpose. Extreme example: Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta. Lines: Zildjian A Customs, K's, K-customs, Sabian HHX, Paiste Signatures, etc.

[xNerox]

first off, great thread :thumb:

i usually play metal, so i guess i'd consider my set a little unusual... my tuning's a little closer to jazz, but still with low end, and a decent amount of sustain, but still slightly muffled. i have a k crash and an a crash, to cover my bases as far as cymbals are concerned, although im working on getting more cymbals.

[SolidGoldstein]

Well, that's something I am always wondering about, but how will you know which cymbals sound good in which band? Which drums sound right in which songs, and how do you react to them and does it bend and break holesbehind and into the music respectively? Studio engineers are much involved in this process. That's whatthe art of mixing is all about. Making each instrument and part sit well and do what the artist intended it to do.

Much of what you're wanting to hear from your instruments is something you can honestly say is based on what you've heard before. But the good musicians can take an idea and make it their own.

I hope that answers at least one of your questions cuz I have no ide what you're asking :p

[crazyguy832]

I prefer playing metal, and used to have my drums all low. But then I thought to myself "they sound like crap," and I tuned them up. Right now I'm just a bit lower than a "jazz" tuning. Pingier cymbals I have, but I'd love to have at least one dark crash... that'd be wonderful.

My kit also has to be higher tuning cause the friends I might be forming a band with want to do J-Pop (don't laugh, some of it's actually really fun to play).

[styler]

jazz is usually deeper and metal/rock is usually tuned higher...

[Det_Nosnip]

What? You've got it backwards, man.

[crazyguy832]

jazz is usually deeper and metal/rock is usually tuned higher...
WRONG

How could you even think that?

:amaze:

Go listen to any Slipknot song and tell me those toms are tuned high.

Yeah, I thought so.

:rolleyes:

[GhostNote]

jazz is usually deeper and metal/rock is usually tuned higher...

Yeah, man, really, any metal/rock song will tell u the opposite of what ur saying. Anyway, this is a good thread, well explained.

[raz0r]

WRONG

How could you even think that?

:amaze:

Go listen to any Slipknot song and tell me those toms are tuned high.

Yeah, I thought so.

:rolleyes:

Or just listen to just about any other metal band.
The results will be the same, except your ears won't bleed from the pure crap that is slipknot.

[moogoogaipan]

I would not say that jazz is tuned higher.
I would say that jazz has more tone...

My high tom is tuned pretty high and has lots of resonance and my low is tuned probably lower than many rock players and it still has a lot of good tone...especially for brazilian patterns.

I wouldn't say that jazz has a particular range as much as it does a particular articulation and sound.

[Josiah]

WRONG

How could you even think that?

:amaze:

Go listen to any Slipknot song and tell me those toms are tuned high.

Yeah, I thought so.

:rolleyes:


yea, you thought so?

Wait... you're listening to a studio album right? Where even the drums have been run through pro-tools, logic, effects.. who knows how many tweakings of sound...
Been to any LIVE slipknot shows? Joey's drums are actually tuned VERY high.
Peart has been know to tune VERY high as well.
Tool? Danny's high toms are cranked.. those suckers sing out with a clarity.


For live, esspeccially harder music where guitars are really getting turned up. I tune HIGH. Because low tones are just lost in a mix. Simple as that.

Recorded is a different issue on it's own.


Again for live, I generally tune down for jazz, swing, etc.. this allows me to hit at my normal place and the drums not be very over powering in lower volume situations. I'm not competing for low end in a jazz or swing setting. So I can set the drums pretty low and still be heard.

[crazyguy832]

Or just listen to just about any other metal band.
The results will be the same, except your ears won't bleed from the pure crap that is slipknot.
Everything pre-IOWA is crap, IOWA only has a few good stuff. Vol 3: (The Subliminal Verses) is a great CD, though.

And I suppose you're right, Jos. I have seen a lot of videos of Slipknot live, though, and his toms seem to be tuned low then.

I dunno, I like resonance, so I like my toms nice and high. I've got a massive floor tom, though, so even high it's still like a cannon.

:smash:

[Det_Nosnip]

I would not say that jazz is tuned higher.
I would say that jazz has more tone...

My high tom is tuned pretty high and has lots of resonance and my low is tuned probably lower than many rock players and it still has a lot of good tone...especially for brazilian patterns.

I wouldn't say that jazz has a particular range as much as it does a particular articulation and sound.

Great points, especially the last one. :)

yea, you thought so?

Wait... you're listening to a studio album right? Where even the drums have been run through pro-tools, logic, effects.. who knows how many tweakings of sound...
Well, the point IS the end product. What people are looking for the instruments to sound like, whether that's processed to death or not.

Been to any LIVE slipknot shows? Dear god, no.

Joey's drums are actually tuned VERY high.
Peart has been know to tune VERY high as well.
Tool? Danny's high toms are cranked.. those suckers sing out with a clarity.
Well Rush is more of a prog band, which has a totally different set of sounds altogether. Hell, John Bonham cranked his drums as well...then again, his smallest tom was like a 14'' and his bass drum was a 26'' ;) The drums still sound low.

For live, esspeccially harder music where guitars are really getting turned up. I tune HIGH. Because low tones are just lost in a mix. Simple as that.
Well, I've found that the tone you get often depends more on the natural characteristics of the shell than the tuning. Tuning effects whether you actually get that tone or not. :lol:

Recorded is a different issue on it's own.
Ah, well....there you've got me beat, unless you count digital cameras. :lol:

Again for live, I generally tune down for jazz, swing, etc.. this allows me to hit at my normal place and the drums not be very over powering in lower volume situations. I'm not competing for low end in a jazz or swing setting. So I can set the drums pretty low and still be heard.

Interesting.

[Wizz]

nice! thnx

[GhostNote]

Actually, Bonham's smallest tom was a 15".

[Det_Nosnip]

Only strengthens the arguement. :lol:

[GhostNote]

Glad it did so.

[Josiah]

Actually, Bonham's smallest tom was a 15".


On wich kit?

I got a live video of zepplin right here.. his smallest tom is very obviouslly smaller in diameter then his snare on this kit.

Besides the fact such a statement is retarded in it's assumptions anyway. John used prob 40 different kits in different configurations through out the years. Some had HUGE kick drums, some had normal size. Some were clear, some were not. Some had huge toms. Some did not. Sometimes he played on a 3 piece, sometimes he played on a 9 piece.

Even more so, John CRANKED his drums. That's how he got his sound. His drums were tuned extremelly high. You can check out Jeff Ocheltree's DVD for more on that.

However on a side note it is nessicary to compare that Johns drum tones were much higher in pitch then modern drum sounds. His drums really aren't very low at all, his kick drum is actually on the higher end of the range of bass.

Running any of johns kit sounds through a spectrum analyzer shows this. However anyone can see that, bring up any rock band in the last 5 years and listen to the kick sound. Now put on a Zepplin album. It's very obvious wich of the kick drums is lower in pitch.

While I heard this myself, the reality of the facts were shown when I play Zepplin on the home system here. The various speakers have their own cross-overs built in, we use all EAW stuff here. If I put zepplin on, his kick is coming more out of the mid range speakers then the low end ones, and barely dips low enough for the sub to grab it.
I have to adjust settings on the system in order for subs to grab those sounds, wich essentially is eq'ing the low end up because it simply wasn't there. I throw on the Vanessa Carlton album. Abe's kick is making the subs move in a big big way.




Not to mention any glance at the sizes of drums being made by large (or small even) companies shows a very obvious trend towards higher pitched faster drums. That's of course stemming from drummers needing faster, better cutting drum sounds in modern playing situations.

Added even more so, there have numerous articles in various drum magezines about tuning drums into mixes. Bringing the kick drum up a lil so it's more out of the bass guitar range, or visa versa is a very common thing to do.

Having personally experience playing live in all sorts of situations. I can attest that drums tuned higher are often misinterpreted as louder. Lower tuned drums are often misinterpreted as quite.

I've seen TooL several times now, the notes coming from danny's 8 and 10" toms.. very hearable. His 18" tom.. it's just gone for the most part if the guitars are playing. You can ever hear that on Animea where the low toms just sink deep into the guitar and bass. Lateralus is even more so, there are places where it's very difficult to tell whats being played due to extreme overlap in low the end.


In the end though, what ever your sound is, is whatever you like your sound to be. Danny likes that drum sound, so that's what he plays. Even though it's very evident his low toms get lost in the mix very easily. Perhaps that's what he's going for too.

I know for me, if I show up to a venue to play at, and it's of any large size. I start tuning my drums up. Cause I understand the live playing sound spectrum, and why EVERYONE can hear my 8" tom and the 16" isn't heard by everyone, least wise not as clearly as the 8".

It's the same reason I tune lower in lower volume situations. Despite low end vibrations being more penitrating through objects, they loose open projection. Often there is not the presence of a de-tuned guitar running out of a Mesa Half Stack. I can get away with a more "natural" lower drum sound and it actually be heard in it's glory.


An example to tease the mind - It is very common for people to describe oak drums as being very loud and cutting.
The reality is they don't produce any higher SPLs then a Maple, Birch or Beech drum. The difference lies in the illusion created from the naturally higher pitch of Oak. It has a lot of high end slap, and the harder wood raises the fundimental pitch quite a lot.
The end result - the drums are perceived to be louder.


To bring things full circle, there are many times I have wished I could make my floor toms roar through a mix like my 20" China's. Or could match the complexity of a K custom crash in a 10" tom. When I can do that.. oh that will be a glorious day indeed.

The sounds I love the most from my drums, come from single ply coated heads, tuned so the drums just sing out wonderfully. It just's the reality of the differences in music that I can't use that type of sound in many rock/pop applications.

[GhostNote]

Man, what is your problem. I was simply stating that bonham's smallest "recognised" tom was a 15", and going from the setup diagram that i have. Yeah, he used alot of different setups, and i didnt actually say that that was the only tom he used. He was known for using large drums. and the thread starter was simply trying to prove a point by using bonhams kit as something to go off. I didnt really want to start an argument.

[some jive turkey]

On wich kit?
John used prob 40 different kits in different configurations


good point, It's not usually fair to say that one drummer's kit has this sound. Most drummers I know use a lot of different instruments for diff. applications


Added even more so, there have numerous articles in various drum magezines about tuning drums into mixes. Bringing the kick drum up a lil so it's more out of the bass guitar range, or visa versa is a very common thing to do.

That is how I have always approached mixing: trying to find each instruments frequency niche. You know what band really has this sound down? ACDC Everything's so nice in their mixes.



To bring things full circle, there are many times I have wished I could make my floor toms roar through a mix like my 20" China's. Or could match the complexity of a K custom crash in a 10" tom. When I can do that.. oh that will be a glorious day indeed.


I kind of like that there are so many different types of sounds available on a drum set. High, low, short, long Simple[U], [U]complex.

[Murd_666]

Man, what is your problem. I was simply stating that bonham's smallest "recognised" tom was a 15", and going from the setup diagram that i have. Yeah, he used alot of different setups, and i didnt actually say that that was the only tom he used. He was known for using large drums. and the thread starter was simply trying to prove a point by using bonhams kit as something to go off. I didnt really want to start an argument.It didn't sound like he was, what josiah has said should have not made u think he wanted an arguement, he probablty wanted to educate you, just so you know the facts.Wait... you're listening to a studio album right? Where even the drums have been run through pro-tools, logic, effects.. who knows how many tweakings of sound...
Been to any LIVE slipknot shows? Joey's drums are actually tuned VERY high.
Peart has been know to tune VERY high as well.
Tool? Danny's high toms are cranked.. those suckers sing out with a clarity.I've heard joey play live and his drums are not tuned low, I also heard about peart having almost ridiculously high tunings, so high that his drums would break often.

[a1DrummerT]

My goal with a band would be to create a unique sound so that people will remember it. If you follow guidlines like, "Okay, since we are a rock band I need dark tones poppy snare and bright cymbals.

A coincedance*(sp) i happen to like all of those things :)

but i like your idea and yes a set does need to be balanced, it can be balanced in a unique way. ya know

[Motleyguy]

Man, what is your problem. I was simply stating that bonham's smallest "recognised" tom was a 15", and going from the setup diagram that i have. Yeah, he used alot of different setups, and i didnt actually say that that was the only tom he used. He was known for using large drums. and the thread starter was simply trying to prove a point by using bonhams kit as something to go off. I didnt really want to start an argument.

man, I don't think that was an argument. You just got told. And on top of that, you should take that post and think it over, Josiah just gave us all some great insight into tuning our drums to accomplish various things in different settings.

[Det_Nosnip]

My goal with a band would be to create a unique sound so that people will remember it. If you follow guidlines like, "Okay, since we are a rock band I need dark tones poppy snare and bright cymbals.

A coincedance*(sp) i happen to like all of those things :)

but i like your idea and yes a set does need to be balanced, it can be balanced in a unique way. ya know

That was the point of this thread. The only way to push the boundaries is to be aware of them...my point in starting this thread was to examine the norm and to then extrapolate. :)

[chickensandwiches]

i play in a grindcorehardcore band and i use high tuning
and when i get higher end cymbals (i have a B8 pack, all i can afford)
im going for a more varied sound
both dark and bright cymbals
my snare is tight, mostly because i like doing marching snare solos on it
i suck though i dont play marching snare i just like to wish i did

[Wizz]

Well , the period when i first started drums i had an image of my playing of playing a lot of Metal and rock. My first replacement heads were Pinstripes and Remo Weatherking on the snare , pretty good for heavy metal bashing on your drums.
But then i started to learn more and more about different types of music and i discovered how "cool" it was to play jazz and funk. I put my Double bass aside and started learn that stuff. It gave me great pleasure to groove for hours , putting accents in my playing , very soft , very loud.
After doing that for a couple of months , I got into a metal band , on our first rehearsel , it scared me that my abbility to play Double Bass with total control had decreased. This was not an option for me , i wanted to get better again and started to combine Jazz and Funk with Metal.

I love it , and i'm very happy with were i am today in my great journey to become a great drummer.

Now , different music = different gear. In all sorts of ways , not only new cymbals and new heads or even a new kit. No , even different colours and attitude. I never saw a Death metal drummer play with a sparkle finished kit and i jazz player wont usually play 10 piece kits.

So mainly on the kit a few things differ.

Snares : People who play metal tend to have a really deep snare. I know you don't really like him but look at Joey joridsons signature sure , 13"x6.5"

Bassdrums : If you think metal you think Double bass , so almost a basic need is a Double bass pedal , or 2 bass-drums.

Sticks : Rock and metal have long , heavy sticks to resist the high impact of crash hits and fast speeds , and jazz has lite sticks to have absolute control of cymbal patterns.

And so on and so on.

I could say a lot more , but then again i have only been playing for 1 year now. So i have many things yet to discover

[Hunted By a Freak]

I think it is kind of narrow minded to simply classify different drumkit tunings for different kinds of music. Especially when you have 3 examples. For instance, do you realize how much equipment someone like Jeff Porcaro would bring to sessions? Also, I have heard plenty of jazz with lower sounding drums. In fact, I saw Kenny Garrett with Ronald Bruner Jr. who was playing a 6 piece setup with midrange to low tuned toms. I was watching a John Mclaughlin DVD with Dennis Chambers playing a 4 piece tuned rather low. I think it would be safer to say that each drummer has their own idea of what sounds good, rather than trying to generalize genres and tunings.

[Det_Nosnip]

Cameron, those were just archetypal examples. Please read the thread.


Basically, what I wanted to discuss was approaching the construction of a well balanced and great sounding drumkit, in terms of tonal balances between cymbals and the drums, as well as the applications of different colors and sounds for different styles of music.

[Carn]

Smart metaldrummers tune high to cut through that wall of guitars.

[GhostNote]

On wich kit?

I got a live video of zepplin right here.. his smallest tom is very obviouslly smaller in diameter then his snare on this kit.

Besides the fact such a statement is retarded in it's assumptions anyway. John used prob 40 different kits in different configurations through out the years. Some had HUGE kick drums, some had normal size. Some were clear, some were not. Some had huge toms. Some did not. Sometimes he played on a 3 piece, sometimes he played on a 9 piece.

Even more so, John CRANKED his drums. That's how he got his sound. His drums were tuned extremelly high. You can check out Jeff Ocheltree's DVD for more on that.

However on a side note it is nessicary to compare that Johns drum tones were much higher in pitch then modern drum sounds. His drums really aren't very low at all, his kick drum is actually on the higher end of the range of bass.

Running any of johns kit sounds through a spectrum analyzer shows this. However anyone can see that, bring up any rock band in the last 5 years and listen to the kick sound. Now put on a Zepplin album. It's very obvious wich of the kick drums is lower in pitch.

While I heard this myself, the reality of the facts were shown when I play Zepplin on the home system here. The various speakers have their own cross-overs built in, we use all EAW stuff here. If I put zepplin on, his kick is coming more out of the mid range speakers then the low end ones, and barely dips low enough for the sub to grab it.
I have to adjust settings on the system in order for subs to grab those sounds, wich essentially is eq'ing the low end up because it simply wasn't there. I throw on the Vanessa Carlton album. Abe's kick is making the subs move in a big big way.




Not to mention any glance at the sizes of drums being made by large (or small even) companies shows a very obvious trend towards higher pitched faster drums. That's of course stemming from drummers needing faster, better cutting drum sounds in modern playing situations.

Added even more so, there have numerous articles in various drum magezines about tuning drums into mixes. Bringing the kick drum up a lil so it's more out of the bass guitar range, or visa versa is a very common thing to do.

Having personally experience playing live in all sorts of situations. I can attest that drums tuned higher are often misinterpreted as louder. Lower tuned drums are often misinterpreted as quite.

I've seen TooL several times now, the notes coming from danny's 8 and 10" toms.. very hearable. His 18" tom.. it's just gone for the most part if the guitars are playing. You can ever hear that on Animea where the low toms just sink deep into the guitar and bass. Lateralus is even more so, there are places where it's very difficult to tell whats being played due to extreme overlap in low the end.


In the end though, what ever your sound is, is whatever you like your sound to be. Danny likes that drum sound, so that's what he plays. Even though it's very evident his low toms get lost in the mix very easily. Perhaps that's what he's going for too.

I know for me, if I show up to a venue to play at, and it's of any large size. I start tuning my drums up. Cause I understand the live playing sound spectrum, and why EVERYONE can hear my 8" tom and the 16" isn't heard by everyone, least wise not as clearly as the 8".

It's the same reason I tune lower in lower volume situations. Despite low end vibrations being more penitrating through objects, they loose open projection. Often there is not the presence of a de-tuned guitar running out of a Mesa Half Stack. I can get away with a more "natural" lower drum sound and it actually be heard in it's glory.


An example to tease the mind - It is very common for people to describe oak drums as being very loud and cutting.
The reality is they don't produce any higher SPLs then a Maple, Birch or Beech drum. The difference lies in the illusion created from the naturally higher pitch of Oak. It has a lot of high end slap, and the harder wood raises the fundimental pitch quite a lot.
The end result - the drums are perceived to be louder.


To bring things full circle, there are many times I have wished I could make my floor toms roar through a mix like my 20" China's. Or could match the complexity of a K custom crash in a 10" tom. When I can do that.. oh that will be a glorious day indeed.

The sounds I love the most from my drums, come from single ply coated heads, tuned so the drums just sing out wonderfully. It just's the reality of the differences in music that I can't use that type of sound in many rock/pop applications.


Ok, i retract my previous statement josiah. you know more than i do. I was a noob then. sorry

[Det_Nosnip]

Smart metaldrummers tune high to cut through that wall of guitars.

Well, yes.....but smart metal drummers are also rather rare. ;) Again...I don't necessarily subscribe to any of these examples. I tend to tune rather high, actually, especially on the resonant side. I based that model mostly on what I've heard other people do...what individual musicians in local or established bands tend to do, what producers have called for on popular records, etc.

Now, what I'm TRYING to focus on is more the "why" then the what. You mentioned a great example that should definitely be a factor: projection and cutting. Clearly, that is why alot of hard rock or metal drummers prefer higher pitched cymbals - they cut through low distorted guitars much more effectively.

You also have to consider whether cutting through or having a huge presence is necessarily always a good thing. From a drummer's perspective, obviously we want to be heard and loud...yet an immediate example springs to mind: Steve Gadd. World renown for de-tuning and muffling his drums to hell, Steve Gadd got more gigs in the 70's than Robert Plant got pussy.

I think that Moogoo touched on a very important issue that may be more important than tonal ranges, and that was tone vs attack. As he said, jazz is really about having alot of tone....soft beaters, open drums, minimal tuning...to take a counter example, alot of metal drummers prefer having alot of attack and minimal tone, if any. The best example I can think of is Vinnie Paul from Pantera...great drummer, but in my humble opinion, he had the worst sounding drums EVER. Still, few would contend with the notion that Pantera were a successful heavy act, so clearly something about what Paul was doing was working for that audience.

[Carn]

good point.

jazz and maybe latin and african drumming might be the only styles which allow the drummer / precussionist to actually texture the music, even most fusion is pretty "rock orientated" regarding the overal role of the drums (which is, just keeping time, altough on a technical high level in most fusion)

[Josiah]

I agree on the jazz/latin thing. Perhaps becuase both those styles tend to use more "pure sounds". EG, clean guitars, acoustic bass, piano's, percussion, etc..

When you start adding distoration to the sounds of the music, is when the nueances start to leave.

[Drummer884]

Jazz drums are definatly not tuned high. Most jazz basses are finger tight...or less. Plus the snare is tuned low so a brush groove will sound good. As far a jazz toms go I can't be sure, I just know jazz basses and snares are usualy tuned low. Funk drums are tuned kinda high...confusion perhaps? My drum teacher played in local jazz clubs and he always said the low tuned bass gave the bass a floppy sound with low resonance so he could continuosly hit it (in the fast pace bass roles that are jazz) without sounding like he had a clicking rock bass. as far as cymbals go I love the zildjian a's for hardcore/rock/screamo (I do not wear girls pants...my gutarist does) and a zildjian 18" oriental for a quik end to cymbal fills.

[Josiah]

Jazz drums are definatly not tuned high. Most jazz basses are finger tight...or less. Plus the snare is tuned low so a brush groove will sound good. As far a jazz toms go I can't be sure, I just know jazz basses and snares are usualy tuned low.


Wow you have no clue what you are talking about do you?

[ThisMustBeHeaven]

Ok, i retract my previous statement josiah. you know more than i do. I was a noob then. sorry

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Smart metaldrummers tune high to cut through that wall of guitars.

We're talking high for the instrument. A low tom is never gonna sound like an eight inch mini-timbale.

[ThisMustBeHeaven]

as far as cymbals go I love the zildjian a's for hardcore/rock/screamo

How the **** did you come up with that?

[Josiah]

A combonation of both emotional and nuerological responses to frequencies generated by that type of cymbals would be my guess...


Welcome to life. Nobody is the same. If he likes A Customs, how can anyone fault him for that? Incredible cymbals regaurdless of the genere of music.

[Drummer884]

A combonation of both emotional and nuerological responses to frequencies generated by that type of cymbals would be my guess...


Welcome to life. Nobody is the same. If he likes A Customs, how can anyone fault him for that? Incredible cymbals regaurdless of the genere of music.
I think he meant it was a bit off topic. I don't know why but everyone in advanced is so damned picky. Plus everyone here seems to have their mind made up *eh eh* josiah... so... most of these threads are answered by dicks who just seem to want to argue or trash someone elses opinions. I don't know where you think you can tell me I don't know what i'm talking about. You don't even know me dude...And for the most part I was agreeing with you, mr. "I tune my drums down for jazz"

damnit

[Josiah]

Oh fu*ck off...

If you want to take my statements out of context fine, So Be it.

You are just gibberish. Everything you say is gibberish. And your playing is gibberish.

What no? post up some audio son.

[Drummer884]

What no? post up some audio son.
Whoa whoa, bit defensive are we. I would post audio but I have no mic, no way to record or even take pictures to put on the compy. Believe me when I say I will when I can. Not haveing a camera is the only reason I haven't made a "my kit" thread. Don't call me son...what are you, a gay? Apologies for making you mad but I was really only saying whats going on, and I'm not about to turn a good forum into an argument...

*****ing off*

[Josiah]

Jazz drums are definatly not tuned high.


Buddy Rich, Evlin Jones, Tony Williams, PaPa Jo Jones, Gene Krupa, Louie Bellson...

The fathers of jazz and swing playing.
You'd have to be out of your mind to say any of those guys tuned low.

/point.

When I said I like to tune low, I ALSO said it's because I like to hit hard AND tuned low for LOWER VOLUME situations.

If I was sitting to the side of a brass section, that would not be the case at all. My comments about tuning down for jazz gigs talked about smaller venues and lower volume levels.

[Drummer884]

Well maybe you and my teacher have the same preferances... Most jazz I have heard has been live and when I talked about jazz drums not being High I was only speaking from my experience in jazz. The only other jazz drummers I have really heard, well actualy ella fitzjeralds drummer is the only recorded drummer I can recall. He played with low level drums. I suppose I should not have assumed. I'm a friggin rock drummer haha. However i do plan on learning jazz. once I graduate from my college(for firefighting) I'm going to try-out for a scholarship to a musical college...I hope, I hardly ever stick to my plans. hmm, I'm not sure what college either, I think I'll make a thread.

[Win A Rabbit]

hmm... my cymbal set-up. i like bright crashes, but dark-er rides and hats. the contrast sounds much better to my ears, to be riding on a dark-er sounding cymbal, then a nice bright crash to cut through.

my drums... my bass drum is in the middle range i guess, but it's got a nice deep punch to it. so i guess i'd consider it tuned low. my snare drums are all fairly high, to the point where they sing out the most. and my toms, well i guess i'd say they're fairly high also. not cranked, but definately not deep and low.

[Drummer884]

^^^yeah I love dark rides. I have a friend endorsed by ziljian and I'm gonna get him to order me a K.

[FockerTheLopper]

Don't forget about different types of sticks.

[Japan3gro]

hmm... my cymbal set-up. i like bright crashes, but dark-er rides and hats. the contrast sounds much better to my ears, to be riding on a dark-er sounding cymbal, then a nice bright crash to cut through.



I'm the same way kind of. I only got the Raw Bell because I was in love with the sound. However I wouldn't turn down a K anyday. As for crashes I like mine bright but I haven't found the right dark crash.

[GhostNote]

I hope you're being sarcastic.


Why is that?

[Carn]

We're talking high for the instrument. A low tom is never gonna sound like an eight inch mini-timbale.

I think my point was pretty clear. Jazz kits dont exist out of 8" mini timbales either.

[Det_Nosnip]

Don't forget about different types of sticks.

Yep. Even the type of tip your stick has makes a huge difference in overall sound.

[Drummer884]

What would you say round tips lean more towards? in music styles.

[Hunted By a Freak]

Cameron, those were just archetypal examples. Please read the thread.

Regardless of your intent, it was unclear as you went on to describe these "archetypal examples" with little divergant discussion following that. All further comments supported these stereotypes of tuning to a certain genre sound, rather than tuning to get the best possible tone from a drum.

[ThisMustBeHeaven]

Ok, i retract my previous statement josiah. you know more than i do. I was a noob then. sorry

why did you apoligize to him?

[Drummer884]

why did you apoligize to him?
cause people worship josiah on here, duh...

[ThisMustBeHeaven]

Worship Josiah? I think more people are just trying to tolerate him.

[Drummer884]

Worship Josiah? I think more people are just trying to tolerate him.
I am. some people, such as someone on the joey jordison forum, actualy posted something saying...ooo, josiah is gonna get you so bad, I can't wait to see what he has to say, you are gonna be pwned, then I'll offer him free sex (its out of quotes)... I have heard more stuff like that but that is the most recent. I got no prob with josiah, accept his unsway ideals, which is your right josiah, but the people who post stuff like that make themselves out to be little children with a role model.

[Seafroggys]

yeah, i got neg repped for making a silly, fun-hearted comment at josiah that was just a joke, but then someone gave me that rep and just flammed me in his comments....i wish i knew who it was... :smash:

[Det_Nosnip]

Regardless of your intent, it was unclear as you went on to describe these "archetypal examples" with little divergant discussion following that. All further comments supported these stereotypes of tuning to a certain genre sound, rather than tuning to get the best possible tone from a drum.

Well, I was just using them as examples of what many people like to hear. The original point of the thread was to discuss matching cymbals with drums, but that seems to have died, unfortunately.

I didn't mean to sound crass by the way, so if it came across that way, I apologize.