To root or not to root, Are you a root note whore??Playing against the grain..

[6stringslinger]

Sorry......the title is a bit extreme, sometimes I am a bit extreme. I would consider myself still in my "infant" stages of playing bass, I have an 8 track recorder and I play power chords on guitar and pratice playing basslines "underneath" the guitar. I play the root alot, but you must consider I am still in my first 2 years of playing.

It sounds a little strange playing a 3rd or 5th under a chord, could this just be that I am trying to learn this too early or what? It seems to me that the root sounds better but I try to experiment and not to sound to predictable or bland.

What do you like to do as far as making your basslines sound unique or against the grain?What about position changes among other things?? :wave:

[BassVirtuoso]

I don't constantly play the root, but I do make sure I go back to it so It sounds organized.

[sixner]

i suppose im like BV^... though, it depends on many thing's...... the song style, what else is going on in the song, ect....

some songs NEED rooting.. just, powerful low end to drive into a guitar solo or something...
-sixner

[labgnat]

i tend to play the note under my fretting finger, unless of course it's an open string:d

[Jublian]

Do what you feel like, I like to write a little melody tom platy under chords

[Machines]

I'll play the root when first learning a song. Then as I get more confident of it - starting throwing in different notes or playing some notes in another octave. I just experiment with it to see what sounds good.

[darrell]

I do a lot of octaves and fifths... I use other things when composing basslines, but octaves and fifths are the most consonant intervals and seem to always work. I also use a lot of 10ths (or 3rds... however you want to look at them)...

Someone should make a thread that consists of just different licks on bass... Ones that can be applied to many songs. You know... not just a bassline from their favourite song... :thumb:

[darrell]

:lol: 123

i'v been playing jst a year now, and i don't stick to the root, at all. Obviously you put it in sometimes when it sounds sexy but i don't normally just root along. If i'm unsure of the song i just play across the pentatonics up and down the neck

I'm sure the pentatonic scale up and down the neck sounds like crap.

[mikethecoug]

I like octaves and i use the blue scale alot aswell. I usually play the root and then go into something an octave up.

[SixnStones]

I'm sure the pentatonic scale up and down the neck sounds like crap.

no, they don't. why would they? they're one of the most commonly used scales.

[Raiven]

Does it matter?

If it works it works, no need to be able to shred constantly over a basic song.

I hate this anti-root phase everyone is going through.

[darrell]

no, they don't. why would they? they're one of the most commonly used scales.


Well, the major scale is pretty common.... actually, the most common. If I heard a bass player playing a G major scale up and down just because a song is in the key of G, I would probably take his bass and smack him over the head with it.... and then take over. :thumb:

[Radiobass81]

I just play what feels right. I don't like to play anything fancy when someone sings, though, and if I'm playing anything that's written down, I don't tend to go and change the line.

[SixnStones]

Well, the major scale is pretty common.... actually, the most common. If I heard a bass player playing a G major scale up and down just because a song is in the key of G, I would probably take his bass and smack him over the head with it.... and then take over. :thumb:

commonly USED, not just common. :rolleyes: As in Stanley Clarke... :eek:

[Radiobass81]

Well, the major scale is pretty common.... actually, the most common. If I heard a bass player playing a G major scale up and down just because a song is in the key of G, I would probably take his bass and smack him over the head with it.... and then take over. :thumb:

"Next Year" by Foo Fighters has Nate playing, pretty much, the 7th scale descending (ascending?) (and then what I think is the root, second and third), but it fits perfectly with the song. Just rooting wouldn't add to the song, unlike this (believe it or not), and if he would try to dazzle with some upbeat notes and what not, it would just ruin the mood of the song.

[Jublian]

wow, radiobass live in Puerto Rico!

/official Batman thread hijack

[SixnStones]

"Next Year" by Foo Fighters has Nate playing, pretty much, the 7th scale descending (and then what I think is the root, second and third), but it fits perfectly with the song. Just rooting wouldn't add to the song, unlike this (believe it or not), and if he would try to dazzle with some upbeat notes and what not, it would just ruin the mood of the song.

woo!

[HaVIC5]

The root note is the fundamental role of the bassist. The bassist should always try to stick to playing it, and playing it well.

[darrell]

The root note is the fundamental role of the bassist. The bassist should always try to stick to playing it, and playing it well.

I agree, to a point. I hate seeing bassists all over the place, but I also hate just root notes. There has to be something in between.

[Machines]

The root note is the fundamental role of the bassist. The bassist should always try to stick to playing it, and playing it well.

And guitarists should stick to playing power chords properly.

</end stereotyping>

[Sade]

The root note is the fundamental role of the bassist. The bassist should always try to stick to playing it, and playing it well.

...no?

[LivingDeadBoy]

And guitarists usually do :)

But yea, I root note lot's (except fill-ins), unless I'm not singing.

[peeted]

i root wen its needed.

[HaVIC5]

I'm not saying to play only root notes, of course not. The classic anti root note syndrome is brought on by the myriad of pop punk and rock bands where the bassist plays a steady stream of 8th notes that don't variate at all from the root note. I'm talking about how the root note should be the emphasis in a given chord for most forms of music. The bass player holds down the root while the other instruments branch out upon the chord. Only after the root has been established should there be expansion of the idea.

[LewsTherin]

I think I keep a pretty good balance of rooting, riffing, and wanking.

Soloes by other instruments and bridges are usually pretty good places to root. You either just provide a solid rhythmic background for someone, or with a bridge, you just repeat that one note, slowly building in intensity. In either case, moving all around the neck would either sound like youre jealous of the soloist, or it would ruin the effect, really.

Breakdowns are a good time for riffing, imo. Also a very good time for two people to have countermelodies. Also an okay spot to root, depending.

A song based on a riff is also a good place to play a riff (ie Hysteria).

And wanking, thats good for a solo environment (either a solo within a song, or just a solo performance)

[slaughteredfirst]

I root when I have to, and when it sounds good.


Otherwise I just play what sounds good and make sure I am not wanking.

[peeted]

I think I keep a pretty good balance of rooting, riffing, and wanking.


eye thats what i do. i get criticised for wanking to much though :upset:

[Bass_swede]

I think i have found a pretty good balance for the music i'm playing. I try to do my job by keeping the low end, sometimes that means rooting so that the guitar-chords sound more defined, and at other times I can get a little more free and even solo. I write alot of guitar in my band and I think that helps.

http://rapidshare.de/files/9024783/Deformatives_Demo.rar.html

^This is how I play.

PS, iv'e been playing for a little more than a year now.

[neal_672]

With my band i root and then just play around the octave, what i think some people need to realise when they play bass is that it's all about creating the right groove to the song, and in the case of rock music that means rooting then filling occasionally and tastefully.

I'm perfectly adept at doing more complex stuff, i just don't in my band situation because there's no need for it...

[Riouken]

No, the bassist has no role.


Bass guitar is a MUSICAL insturment. It is a vehicle for music. There is no fundamental role. Go away with your conservative traditional crap.

Just make music!! If that means sticking to the root then do it, if that means tappping a polyrhythmic melody then do it, if that means screaming pinch harmonics... do it. If it means a double thumbed solo up and down the neck, do it! Just make music.

It is a musical instrument, it is a vehicle for MUSIC. Not a vehicle for conservative, tradiitonal crap.

P.S. I only stick to the root.

P.S.S Havic this wasn't directed at you, but what you said reminded me of others...

[Scooch]

I'll usually root or create a rythem picked from the key and just repeat it the whole song kind of like Rage Style.

[Thunder Fingers]

I wouldnt say im a root note whore, but i tend to have the root note as a main thing, like, a song goes in E, i ofcourse play in E.. my bass lines tend to sometimes be "half walking" i Use alot of conection notes...

i guess you can find what i do among my idols.. i pretty much mke my lines inspired by them...(Geddy Lee, John Entwistle, Steve Harris and Phil Lynott..)

[Naveed Afzal]

sometimes playing the root is the best thing to do, alot of funk songs are pretty much root notes

Pumping the roots on the "1, +" it works fine. People regard Tim C as a great Bassplayer, i like him to, but even HE roots alot. Any bassplayer who can play alot, like knows how to play alot, but roots, is a great bassplayer in my opinion he knows how to be tasteful and thats really all there is to that.

[Naveed Afzal]

Me... i usually dont write basslines anymore... i just play... sometimes i'll play the same lines a whole song... sometimes i wont.

[janyeno]

I mostly stick to the root... or play around the root(meaning I stick to the root's chord tones)... I never really try anything super complex...

[PainKiller8191]

^there's really so much you can actually do...

think about it this way

Do whatever fits the song, it's really your job, since not alot of drummers/guitarists think about this.....

it's the bassist and keyboardist's jobs to keep everything together....
you sort of have to make it all connect and wether u do that by rooting, playing chord tones, playing a muted rhythm or whhhatever...thats what makes you the bassist of that particular song

[Guinpen]

No, the bassist has no role.


Bass guitar is a MUSICAL insturment. It is a vehicle for music. There is no fundamental role. Go away with your conservative traditional crap.

Just make music!! If that means sticking to the root then do it, if that means tappping a polyrhythmic melody then do it, if that means screaming pinch harmonics... do it. If it means a double thumbed solo up and down the neck, do it! Just make music.

It is a musical instrument, it is a vehicle for MUSIC. Not a vehicle for conservative, tradiitonal crap.

P.S. I only stick to the root.

P.S.S Havic this wasn't directed at you, but what you said reminded me of others...

i am going to have to agree with riouken. people concentrate far too much on the roles of instruments and scales, and don't tend to pay enough attention to the individual notes/harmonies they are playing. in many cases, anti-root zealots are people that fail miserably in their attempts to play complex lines in the first place and come off as wankers (and i don't mean wankers as in how they play. i mean wankers as in they're just ****ing wankers, in the objective sense)

[Joelbassman]

I think i have found a pretty good balance for the music i'm playing. I try to do my job by keeping the low end, sometimes that means rooting so that the guitar-chords sound more defined, and at other times I can get a little more free and even solo. I write alot of guitar in my band and I think that helps.

http://rapidshare.de/files/9024783/Deformatives_Demo.rar.html

^This is how I play.

PS, iv'e been playing for a little more than a year now.
I love your work. :thumb:

It's funny, in my band we wrote a song where I played a groovy line and the guitarist played the root so we swapped roles and I liked it.

Only root when need be.

/Thread.

[SixnStones]

No, the bassist has no role.


Bass guitar is a MUSICAL insturment. It is a vehicle for music. There is no fundamental role. Go away with your conservative traditional crap.

Just make music!! If that means sticking to the root then do it, if that means tappping a polyrhythmic melody then do it, if that means screaming pinch harmonics... do it. If it means a double thumbed solo up and down the neck, do it! Just make music.

It is a musical instrument, it is a vehicle for MUSIC. Not a vehicle for conservative, tradiitonal crap.

P.S. I only stick to the root.

P.S.S Havic this wasn't directed at you, but what you said reminded me of others...

3... 2... 1... PWNAGE

[MasterofBass]

I'll play the root when first learning a song. Then as I get more confident of it - starting throwing in different notes or playing some notes in another octave. I just experiment with it to see what sounds good.


haha, that's exactly what i do. I learn the rhythm guitar part and get that down, then do my own thing. It seems to work the best I think :thumb:

[Sade]

kk Riouken said what I was too lazy to type out.

[Jody LeCompte]

It all depends on what the song calls for. Sometimes Ill strictly play the root and other times Ill play the root with a few fills, every now and then I get a song where I can just go off in a tangent. Its so fun.

[neal_672]

sometimes playing the root is the best thing to do, alot of funk songs are pretty much root notes

Pumping the roots on the "1, +" it works fine. People regard Tim C as a great Bassplayer, i like him to, but even HE roots alot. Any bassplayer who can play alot, like knows how to play alot, but roots, is a great bassplayer in my opinion he knows how to be tasteful and thats really all there is to that.

123

I'm not against solo bassing i'd like to point out, but i much prefer a simple line that stands out to some OTT wankery that sounds messy and silly.

[jaco jr]

Well, the major scale is pretty common.... actually, the most common. If I heard a bass player playing a G major scale up and down just because a song is in the key of G, I would probably take his bass and smack him over the head with it.... and then take over. :thumb:
slight problem the bass may nto work having smashed the previous user over the head with it:thumb:

[jaco jr]

but some bassists go to the extremem of utter root note playing, 8th notes of one note for at least one bar, but i mean, you could at least add a little soemthing to the end of each bar - like this in a minor;
G- | | |
D- | 5 3 2 | |
A-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 | 3 3 3 3 3 | 5 5 5 5 5 3 2 5 | 8 8 etc
E- | | |
even a little thing liek that at the end of the bar can be better than just solid roots, add in dead notes, use longer or shorter notes in places or little runs around the scale to make it more fun, but for heavens sake dont keep that monotonous stream going:thumb:

[PaulR]

Passing notes. ^__^

[Phalanx]

I like to do fills when the drummer does fills, when im root noting, I do rhythm changes to make the bass lock into the drums better and make the lines more fun

[mmfan486]

Generally speaking I play root notes. It depends on the song, or the band. I'll try and explain:

In my former band, Jack's Union, I would form the basis of the riff around the root notes and then twiddle around a bit in the appropriate scale. We played sort of indie-funk stuff, generally in a minor key, so it rarely went beyond the root note, the 3rd and the 7th. Then we got all Phygrian Mode and started putting notes in all over the place. It worked but I won't go into that.

In my current band, Jack's Legacy, I usually just play the root note of the chord, perhaps the 5th, or with a syncopated rhythm. This works with the band when comparing the 2 for a number of reasons; firstly in my old band I was only ever the bass player so I could concentrate more or less entirely on what I was playing. In my current one I'm also the lead singer, and it's all to easy to fall in to the trap of singing what you're playing on the bass so unless I know both the bassline and the song really well, I can't play anything too elaborate. Also, my current band only has 1 guitarist who needs a solid platform to work on; not an easy task if the bass player is twiddling around. My old band had 2 guitarists, one would play lead and the other rhythm guitar but not necessarily the same one each song. Either way, we had a solid chord progression going so I was basically free to mut some movement into the bassline if I wanted to.

But it all comes back to the root notes eventually. Any notes I play now that aren't root notes are just passing notes, in most cases. What you have to keep in mind is that knowing what your band requires of you and playing to its strenght does not make a crap bass player.

[faelun]

im forced to play what ever my guitar player says, everything i write has to much "funk" in it for him when it's unfortunately not very funky at all >_>

[802.11-NGR]

Mixolydian is where its at foo's

[katana_manatee]

Sometimes just playing the root is the best thing but experiment as much as possible and see what works. Sometimes you do have a role in a band. If everyone had the philosophy of always experimenting you would never have a concrete style as a genre is based on certain roles and a confinement of what and how you play.

In a jazz band it can be great to improvise all the time or play unusual things for a lot of the time but in an old style country band you would be fired if you started playing like that.

The most important thing is how the music feels as a whole, sometimes we have to realise we are a part of something bigger than ourselves (ie the band) and we must use what feels write and makes things sound good.

But to put it quite simply, do simply what sounds good.

[thelowsoundofbass]

i play what is required for the song. but i have a question, what would you guys do in a song where you can't tell where the roots are or there are no roots??

lowsound

[katana_manatee]

i play what is required for the song. but i have a question, what would you guys do in a song where you can't tell where the roots are or there are no roots??

lowsound

Make them.

[802.11-NGR]

i play what is required for the song. but i have a question, what would you guys do in a song where you can't tell where the roots are or there are no roots??

lowsound


There is no such thing as a song with no roots, even if it is just an implied chord progression.

[katana_manatee]

There is no such thing as a song with no roots, even if it is just an implied chord progression.

123

[HaVIC5]

There is no such thing as a song with no roots, even if it is just an implied chord progression.
Actually, yes there is. Many impressionistic composers wrote with extremely ambiguous tonalities that most could make a case for having no tonal center, and by the time serialism came around, there was mathematically no tonal center. The advent of the Avant Garde solidified this.

[HaVIC5]

There is no such thing as a song with no roots, even if it is just an implied chord progression.
Actually, yes there is. Many impressionistic composers wrote with extremely ambiguous tonalities that most could make a case for having no tonal center, and by the time serialism came around, there was mathematically no tonal center. The advent of the Avant Garde solidified this.

[Drickey]

I play whatever is need to make the song sounds better, If the guitar is playing a very simple chord progression I’ll play something more interesting underneath, sometimes ill try to right something that locks in with what the guitar is playing. Sometimes if it suits the part of the song and the mood my bass line might even take the lead role over the electric

No instrument has a set purpose, there more guidelines in my view. For each song what each instrument has to do is different. You should always play what you believe adds to the song as a whole, if that’s just playing a root note the fair enough but while you shouldn’t be a show off (except in solos) you should always try to find the most interesting thing to play, not the most obvious.

Thus ends my rant.

[Riouken]

123

I'm not against solo bassing i'd like to point out, but i much prefer a simple line that stands out to some OTT wankery that sounds messy and silly.
Most people enjoy a simple line that sounds good than some over the top wankery that sounds messy and silly.


I listen to a lot of solo bass work... andwhat I lsiten to isn't OTT, messy or silly.

See, now what you are doing, is spreading the vibe that all solo bass is over-top. That in itself is ignorant and close-minded, but I won't go into that.

I'm sure you know all of this, but the way you worded it made it seem like "WOOTEN? ALL HE CAN DO IS GO FAST HAHAHAHOJAF JKEL;KL;RWEJTRLEK;TRJE KLAL[F"

*ahem*

[802.11-NGR]

Actually, yes there is. Many impressionistic composers wrote with extremely ambiguous tonalities that most could make a case for having no tonal center, and by the time serialism came around, there was mathematically no tonal center. The advent of the Avant Garde solidified this.

Double post...:smash:


Even these ridiculously written pieces still have a chord progression, however. It's just really complex and doesn't really make much sense. But besides that, it has nothing to do with his question. I highly doubt his guitarist is composing atonal pieces...

[HaVIC5]

Double post...:smash:


Even these ridiculously written pieces still have a chord progression, however. It's just really complex and doesn't really make much sense. But besides that, it has nothing to do with his question. I highly doubt his guitarist is composing atonal pieces...
No, they really don't have a chord progression. Some serial work is quite simple, actually, but there is absolutely no chord progression. For there to be chords, there must be classical western tonality, and if there is no tonality, no chords.

[peeted]

they use chords in eastern music wich isnt based on the 12 tone scale. just chords wich arnt used in western music. (im not arguing i just felt like pointing that out)

[PaulR]

They use quarter and eighth tones, I believe.

[rhinestone04]

It sounds a little strange playing a 3rd or 5th under a chord,

Not all chords have a 3rd or 5th in them. However, if you're playing over a C major chord for example, you should be able to throw in the major third and fifth as they are parts of the C major chord (C is the root, E is the 3rd, and G is the 5th). If you learn the different structures of chords, you can add more than just root notes by playing within the structure. However, it is important to emphasize the root as that is the most important note in the chord (the rest is just icing on the cake).

[HaVIC5]

Indeed. Like I said, the whole anti-root movement is based upon playing notes besides the root, but the implication is that the root note is still played, yet emphasized with chordal and passing tones.

Sometimes the root can be emphasized without it even being played, although its very difficult to do. My bass teacher now is teaching me how to walk lines without playing the root, and it's quite interesting how it is done correctly.

[peeted]

just out of intrest how did ornate colemans bassist play? because as far as im aware him and his band pretty much god rid of standard theory and made there own rules?

[HaVIC5]

Yeah, pretty much all previous theory went out the window with the avant garde. There are defined rules to their playing, but trying to describe it in chordal theory is impossible.

[Chaos]

Depends on your taste in music, Metal and all that power chord stuff you root, it sounds right, and in jazz you walk the chords.

I think for the most part it comes down to your ear...use your ear whatever pleases your ear and (if you're playing for an audience, ) I guess whatever you think will please others

[JadedBass]

It sounds a little strange playing a 3rd or 5th under a chord, could this just be that I am trying to learn this too early or what? It seems to me that the root sounds better but I try to experiment and not to sound to predictable or bland.

:wave:

I think your trying to say that instead if okaying notes you substitute it for the 3rd right? Maybe in jazz/fusion situation it might work but in rock not really. In rock the bass can be as free as can be as long as you visit the root on 1. BUt not just wanking then just suddenly hit one. you also have to play what fits with the song.You cant create chaos thats in key and make the song better (enless thats what your going for)

now my advice is just generally speaking. because it really does differ from band to band