Make biceps bigger?

[Jesus Loves P0RN]

Does anyone know any good workouts that will make your biceps and/or tricpes a lot bigger. I want good results. All I've got is a bench in the basement.

[Blue Haze]

Lift stuff.

[SubtleDagger]

/regrets leaving redirect in Pit

:|

[Blue Haze]

/regrets leaving redirect in Pit

:|

Haha sorry :upset:

[RideTheSpiral]

Bicept curls hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr guhhhhhhhhh

[SubtleDagger]

Haha sorry :upset:
It's alright, young one.

/pats head

[dancetomdance182]

Use your barbell for curls. If you have dumbells their a various excersises you can do.

[seanman99]

Curls!

[FockerTheLopper]

Its all in your diet. Your arm gets its arm size from the tricept. Do straight bar curls with good form. Even if you can only do the bar do 8-12 controlled repetitions for 4 sets, start with a decent amout of weight for you if you can do 11-12 move up 5 lbs on each side if you can only do 9 or 10 move up 2 1/2 lbs if you can only do 8 do another set of 8 with good form. Make sure to use good form that means don't use your back and only lift from the elbows so your elbows should stay in the same place from beggining to end of the workout. Next workout is hammer curls sitting down where the same rules apply about weight use dungbells this time. Again with good form. Next workout is either preacher curls or arnold curls, arnold curls are pretty much curls laying down on an inclined bench, again same rules with weight and form. Didn't read last part, yeah just do 8 sets of the straight bar curls once every 4 days. Make sure to eat your protien and let your body get enough rest. Also make sure to work out other things and join a gym so you can get big. You'd look rediculus with big bicepts and nothing else(which is hard to do)

[SurfOrDie16]

curls for the girls!

[Cybergasm]

Train for Bigger, Fuller and Finely Sculpted Biceps…the Effective Way!
By David Sipes NSCA-CPT

Next to the chest, the second most sought after finely tuned muscle would have to be the biceps. Maybe you agree, or disagree, but either way, you have to admit that there is something hypnotic about bulging biceps. Maybe it is the way they look when the sleeves in your t-shirt mold to your arms and the material stretches because your arms are so massive. Maybe it is the way fellow gym goers look in admiration. Whatever the reason, one thing is very clear; you have to have a precise plan set in place in order to obtain those bulging beasts!

In this article I’m going to briefly explain the anatomy of the biceps and then I’ll move on to how to maximize size, and address ways to effectively sculpt and separate the biceps. In the end, I’ll put it all together into one brutal, but effective workout.

Here is what you need to know. The biceps or biceps brachii has two heads. There is a short head (inner biceps), and a long head (outer biceps). The truth is this; if you want bigger biceps you’ve got to train both heads of the biceps and also the brachialis and brachioradialis. Take a moment to look at where these muscles are located in the arm biceps The biceps are responsible for rotating the wrists, as well as flexing the elbows. Now that we have a quick overview of the biceps and their function, let’s get to the details of how to build some pretty impressive arms!

Building Mass:
While working to obtain mass it is imperative to focus solely on the task at hand, MASS! Don’t get distracted by your desire for shapely and well defined arms. That will come in time; in fact, while you’re busy packing on the mass, your biceps will be taking shape and developing quite nicely overall. However, you’ll need to pay attention to four very important factors if you want to succeed in adding quality mass to your biceps.
1. Increase caloric intake (eat roughly 15 times your bodyweight)
2. Lift heavy
3. Get plenty of rest
4. Limit cardio activity
I want to briefly touch on one of these 4 items. In order to pack on some serious size, you’ve got to go heavy! You’ll want to find a weight you can lift for 8-10 repetitions. You should work with a weight that becomes difficult to curl between 6-8 repetitions. If you start to struggle on rep 6, aim for 8 reps. If you begin to struggle on rep 8, shoot for 10. Do not up the weight until you are able to do 3 sets of 10 full repetitions.

Tip:
The single most effective exercise for packing on biceps mass is the barbell curl. You can handle more weight doing barbell curls than any other biceps exercise. Use that to your advantage. Now, let’s move forward to the next recommendation.

I highly recommend cheat curls. Allow me to explain. To force the biceps into growth you’ve got to push yourself beyond what you’re used to in terms of muscle fatigue. On the last two sets of barbell curls if I could do 7-8 full repetitions with perfect form, but upon completing that last rep I felt that I couldn’t perform another one to perfection. I would continue curling the weight right up to the sticking point (I did this for 2-3 reps). When I would hit that point I simply arched my back just enough to get me through the sticking point. Notice I said arch my back just enough. It means just that; give yourself a little help, but never allow the tension to come off the biceps. The biceps must constantly be placed under stress in order to grow. Let’s move right along and get into how I developed the shape, separation and peak.

[Cybergasm]

Biceps Peak, Shape and Separation:
Shaping, separating and peaking the biceps requires a lot of mental focus and a higher level of intensity. It is important to work on shaping the biceps through each and every phase of biceps development.

Let’s begin with the peak. The best way to peak the biceps is in the last 3 quarters of the movement. When you reach the top of the movement try to:
1. squeeze the biceps as hard as possible
2. hold the contraction for two seconds
3. lower the weight all the way down in a slow controlled manner
4. hold the contraction for a 10 count on the last rep

Peak Secrets:
Here is an exercise that can be used to help in developing the biceps peak. Lying cable curls. What you do is slide a bench over to an overhead pulley machine. Attach a straight curl bar to the pulley. Next, lie down on the bench, as if you were about to perform the bench press. Fully extend both arms as if you are going to unrack the bar. The straight bar should be over your chest. Rotate your hands so your palms are facing away from your feet (reverse bench grip). Next, have a training partner, or another gym goer pull the bar down to your hands. Grab it like you grab the barbell to perform curls. Now all you do is curl the bar toward your forehead. I really like this exercise because the motion allows a harder contraction. Let me show you. I want you to stand up, and do a biceps curl now. I know you don’t have any weight, but at the top contract the biceps. It feels like you couldn’t possibly contract them any harder doesn’t it? Now, while keeping the biceps contracted lift your elbows straight out so they are parallel to the floor. Do you feel the stronger contraction? That will help develop that peak!

Now, let’s move into how to shape and separate the biceps. In order to bring out the detail in the biceps and to create the kind of shape and separation that will make your arms look like they were chiseled out of stone; you’ll want to focus on exhausting the biceps. The biceps can be fully exhausted by performing the following:
1. partial repetitions
2. supersets and tri-sets
3. stretching and flexing between sets
When it comes to the detail of the biceps, variety is a major issue. You want to be sure you are hitting the biceps at every possible angle! Allow me explain how to use one technique, partial repetitions, that is highly effective in creating both shape and separation in the biceps. Here’s how to use them to your advantage in my next tip.

Tip:
Watch your biceps through the entire range of motion during different exercises. Make a mental note as to what angle of the exercise brings out the most cuts and pay particular attention as to where those cuts are brought out in the biceps. For instance, I wanted more inner biceps development. During preacher curls, I would watch my inner biceps. I noticed that a little over a quarter of the way up, I could see a cut forming in my lower biceps. At the end of each set, I went back and performed 10 partial reps up to that point where the cut was clearly visible. Upon completing the partial reps, I held the dumbbell or barbell at that cut forming position for 5-10 seconds. The secret is to move the weight in a slow controlled manner. You want to keep the biceps under as much stress a possible in order to shape them. Don’t fall victim to swinging the weight or doing them too fast.

Why Stretch and Flex?
If you aren’t currently flexing your biceps between sets, you may want to start. Flexing your worked muscles between sets will ultimately lead to:
1. Better muscle control
2. separation and striations
3. muscle sharpness and detail
As for stretching, it helps to lengthen the biceps which is important because the longer the muscle; the larger it will be when contracted. It also helps to keep the biceps loose. When you begin doing supersets and tri-sets you’ll know what I mean. Without stretching the biceps your arms may get so tight that you won’t be able fully contract them. Now, let’s move along to the part you’ve all been waiting for…

Are you ready? Let me start by saying that I do not recommend this program for beginners. In fact, I would prefer that anyone with less than one year of weight training refrain from attempting this workout.

My biceps training consisted of two phases. A mass phase and a cutting phase. I suggest you do the same. Remember to work on shaping, peaking and separating the biceps throughout each of the two phases.

My mass phase consisted of two workouts a week (Wednesday/Saturday). I trained my biceps on the same day I did back/legs. I went by feel, meaning if my arms felt strong and up to the challenge, I kept adding exercises. A lot of people would consider this over-training, but my arms instantly began to grow! Everyone’s body is different. That is why you too should go by feel. Here is what a typical day looked like during my mass phase of training.

Wednesday/Saturday Aim for 8-10 repetitions per set
1. 3 sets of barbell preacher curls
2. 3 sets of incline dumbbell curls
3. 3 sets of heavy barbell curls

Add these exercises if your arms feel up to it. If not, talk yourself into it! Perform 6-8 reps per set.
1. 2 sets of narrow grip barbell curls
2. 2 sets of wide grip barbell curls

Still not tired? Good. Add this and go for 6-8 reps.
1. 2 sets of reverse barbell curls/ or lying cable curls

During the mass phase I rested approximately 60-90 seconds between each set. I flexed and stretched almost the entire 90 seconds. I rotated my left wrist clockwise, and the right counter-clockwise for 6 rotations. I also placed my arm about chest level against a squat cage and twisted at the waist. I flexed at different positions throughout the curling motion and held those positions for about a 10 count.

Now, let’s move into the cutting phase. When you begin a cutting phase, you’ll want to perform a majority of your exercises with dumbbells. Performing exercises with dumbbells will allow you to better isolate and fully focus your attention on each of the biceps individually; it will lead to greater cuts and definition.

My workout on Monday’s included super-setting biceps/triceps. I worked the biceps 3 days a week in order to help maintain overall shape and size. Due to super-setting I spent approximately 5 minutes flexing after my workouts.

Monday: Triceps/Biceps Superset the following exercises and do 3 sets of 10 reps
1. Reverse grip triceps pushdowns
2. Close grip barbell biceps curl

Superset the following and do 3 sets of 10 reps
1. Seated triceps presses; 3 sets of 10
2. Alternating dumbbell biceps curl with twist of wrist (contracts biceps harder) good for peak development; 3 sets of 10

Superset the following
1. Triceps dumbbell kickbacks; 3 sets of 10
2. Incline dumbbell curls; 3 sets of 10

Wednesday: Tri-sets
1. Dumbbell preacher curls; set of 10
2. Barbell reverse curls; set of 10
3. Dumbbell Hammer curls; set of 10
4. rest 60-90 seconds (do a total of 3 cycles)

Saturday
1. Dumbbell preacher curls; 3 sets of 10 reps
2. Barbell biceps curls; 3 sets of 10 rep
3. concentration curls; 2 sets of 20 reps

This program was designed specifically to target the biceps in every way possible. All you have to do is put in the work and the reward will be your very own set of powerful biceps. What are you waiting for? Get curling!

Quick Tips:
In order to build quality biceps you’ve got to work the biceps brachii, brachialis, and the brachioradialis.

Be sure to incorporate the following exercises into your regiment:
1. Barbell curls: allow you to lift heavy(mass), work biceps brachii
2. Close grip barbell curls: work the outer biceps
3. Wide grip barbell curls: Work the inner biceps
4. Preacher curls: Work the brachialis
5. Hammer curls: Work the brachialis and brachioradialis
6. Reverse curls: Work the brachioradialis

Your best bet for shapely, separated and peaked biceps:
1. Partial repetitions
2. 2 second contraction at the top of curl movement
3. slow controlled movements
4. supersets, tri-sets
5. stretch and flex between sets
6. target the biceps from every possible angle
7. use dumbbells to better isolate the biceps

References:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ice12.htm

http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/principles.html

http://www.sharpman.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=512

Schwarzenegger, Arnold, The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding: The Bible of Bodybuilding, fully updated and revised: Simon & Schuster; Revised and Updated edition (November 5, 1999). Pages 396-402 and 426-448.

Baechle, T.R., and Earle, R.W., Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning; Second Edition: Human Kinetics Pub; 2nd edition (July 2000). Page 419.


************************************************** *******
(c) Copyright 2003-2004 by iSatori Global Technologies, LLC.

[poiuy trewq]

The most important exercises are a pulling movement (rows, chinups) for biceps, and a pushing movement (bench, dips, military press) for triceps. Curls are good but if that is the only thing you are doing you won't get big biceps.

This is what I've been doing:

5X5
Monday: Squat, Bench, Rows
Weds: Front squat, Military Press, Deadlift, Chinups
Friday: Squat, Bench, Rows

It's important to start with a weight you can easily do for 5 sets of 5 and increase it 5 pounds each week. On Monday and Wednesday the sets are done with the same weight and on Friday the weight is increased each set. On Friday if I feel like it I do some curls and scullcrushers.

here are some links
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=134233948
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

[seanman99]

I was going to say something smart but then i noticed the posts above me.

Feels stupid.

[ThePatient]

I have nothing to add to what has already been said, except for this. I flexed in front of the mirror for the first time in a looooooong time today, and I saw how much my arms had grown.

First reaction = :eek:

*flexes again... repeatedly*

Lasting reaction = :cool:

I went to work a very happy guy today.

[Jesus Loves P0RN]

The only problem is, I don't own any dumbells. :upset:

[dancetomdance182]

The only problem is, I don't own any dumbells. :upset:

Go buy some. It's an investment. I really want those dumbells from I think Bowflex?..You just dial in the weight you want and you get the dumbell with that amount of weight.

[wonder_steve]

You cannot shape or seperate biceps, the bicep peak is genetic. There are no 'shaping exercises' and 'mass buildind exercises'. The shape of the muscle, the seperation and the peak are all genetic.
Articles from bodybuilding.com are some of the most useless and misinformed pieces of crap out there.

Partial reps are useless.
You don't need to target it from 'every angle', find 3 exercises you like, continue to go up in the amount of weight till you hit a wall. Change exercise.

You don't work the 'outer' or 'inner' bicep, if you perform a curl yor entire bicep is being used. You cannot isolate any part of it.

Kickbacks are USELESS

The most important exercises are a pulling movement (rows, chinups) for biceps, and a pushing movement (bench, dips, military press) for triceps. Curls are good but if that is the only thing you are doing you won't get big biceps.

Very much so, although i'm not a fan of that split.

Monday: Triceps/Biceps Superset the following exercises and do 3 sets of 10 reps
1. Reverse grip triceps pushdowns
2. Close grip barbell biceps curl

Superset the following and do 3 sets of 10 reps
1. Seated triceps presses; 3 sets of 10
2. Alternating dumbbell biceps curl with twist of wrist (contracts biceps harder) good for peak development; 3 sets of 10

Superset the following
1. Triceps dumbbell kickbacks; 3 sets of 10
2. Incline dumbbell curls; 3 sets of 10

Wednesday: Tri-sets
1. Dumbbell preacher curls; set of 10
2. Barbell reverse curls; set of 10
3. Dumbbell Hammer curls; set of 10
4. rest 60-90 seconds (do a total of 3 cycles)

Saturday
1. Dumbbell preacher curls; 3 sets of 10 reps
2. Barbell biceps curls; 3 sets of 10 rep
3. concentration curls; 2 sets of 20 reps
Shocking split, biceps should be trained on a day which involves mainly pull exercises. Triceps should be trainied on a day involving mainly push exercises. Does this even leave room for any important exercises?

This type of training, 'as often as possible with as many exercises as possible' comes from people feeling the need in they're ego to have big arms. You will never see 19 inch arms on a 150lbs frame. You need to eat like crazy to get big arms. A pretty standard sort of thing is :10 pounds = 1 inch on arms, assuming you are training correctly.

I've said it before, just do some research. There is far to much misinformation is the sports section.

[Cybergasm]

You cannot shape or seperate biceps, the bicep peak is genetic. There are no 'shaping exercises' and 'mass buildind exercises'. The shape of the muscle, the seperation and the peak are all genetic.
Articles from bodybuilding.com are some of the most useless and misinformed pieces of crap out there.

PLEASE PAY NO ATTENTION TO THIS MORON!


It is a well-known fact by remotely educated people that it has been proven that there is no such thing as GENETIC TRAITS! The fact is we have the ability to mold our bodies to the way we want to, and if you follow smart advice (like the article I posted earlier in this thread), you will get the results you want.

I didn't mean to call you a moron, but, you are gravely mis-educated on the subject. Especially when calling any trait Genetic.

[Rats!]

you still cannot change the shape of your muscle. i.e. you can't make your bicep longer... some people have a bicep that goes all the way to the forearm and some peoples bicep ends like an inch from the forearm. you can't change that. you can't make your chest more square or more round or more close together. that's purely genetic.

[Rats!]

Partial reps are useless.

no they aren't


You don't work the 'outer' or 'inner' bicep, if you perform a curl yor entire bicep is being used. You cannot isolate any part of it.

yes you can. use close grip to put emphasis on the outer bicep, and wide grip to put emphasis on the inner bicep.

[Smokey D]

It is a well-known fact by remotely educated people that it has been proven that there is no such thing as GENETIC TRAITS!

Err, of course there are. I'm not sure about the impact genes have on muscle shape, but genetics definitely exist.

[Teh Secksi]

Genetic traits exist, ie hair color, eye color, skin color, things like that.

[Who's the Boss?]

PLEASE PAY NO ATTENTION TO THIS MORON!


It is a well-known fact by remotely educated people that it has been proven that there is no such thing as GENETIC TRAITS! The fact is we have the ability to mold our bodies to the way we want to, and if you follow smart advice (like the article I posted earlier in this thread), you will get the results you want.

I didn't mean to call you a moron, but, you are gravely mis-educated on the subject. Especially when calling any trait Genetic.

You're wrong, size 7 doesn't change that either.

[Cybergasm]

Genetics exist but only in work with the enviromental factors.

There have been thousands of experiments which tested traits that were considered to be strictly part of the gene pool, and when enviroments were changed, both in utero and outer, there have been changes.

For example skin color is highly affected by the enviroment the baby grows up in and is weened in. If the parents are the blackest people in the world, but the mother spends her pregnancy secluded from light, the baby will not be black, or at least not as black as the genetics dictate.

you still cannot change the shape of your muscle. i.e. you can't make your bicep longer... some people have a bicep that goes all the way to the forearm and some peoples bicep ends like an inch from the forearm. you can't change that. you can't make your chest more square or more round or more close together. that's purely genetic.

No those things too can be changed, but its a very though and demanding process. Its quite easy to sculpt muscles to look how you want them, or at least get the illusion. I wish I could tell you more about those methods but I have never really been interested in pursuing them; however I have been made aware of the fact that it has been done. Also, in my experience with all the people I have worked with in the gym and outside, that the very small differences in muscle structure only make a problem when you are focusing in on small details... this of course does not hold true with the abdominals, of which there have been a wide range of, however, as sated before, it is possible to get (with excercise and diet) pretty close to that "perfect six-pack" no matter your given muscle make-up.

Again, I repeat that there is nothing purely genetic; the only reason its not so mainstream is because it is very recent knowledge, and as is supsected it will take some time before it is integrated; much like with geocentricity and the world being flat.

You're wrong, size 7 doesn't change that either.
Dispute me in a sense that has any standing other than the stated "You're wrong..."

[Rats!]

No those things too can be changed, but its a very though and demanding process. Its quite easy to sculpt muscles to look how you want them, or at least get the illusion. I wish I could tell you more about those methods but I have never really been interested in pursuing them; however I have been made aware of the fact that it has been done.

That tells me nothing. It doesn't matter if it's a new or old technique. If it was true and as you say, quite easy, it would be all over the internet.

Or are you talking about plastic surgery?

[Cybergasm]

That tells me nothing. It doesn't matter if it's a new or old technique. If it was true and as you say, quite easy, it would be all over the internet.

Or are you talking about plastic surgery?
Well I know for a fact that biceps can be elongated by doing a longer let-down time, so the rythm is 3sec. up, 5 sec. hold, 8 sec. release. Like I said its really intense but has helped me. Its not something specific but there are variations in technique which help rip muscle in certain ways.

Of course alot of the traits which we consider genetic are in fact in-euteran deteminants, so there are some things which are hard to change, however not imposible- as you said plastic surgery.

I kind of went off on a tangent, its just that the ignorance of purely genetic traits is something that gets me fired up. Sorry guys.

[Who's the Boss?]

Well I know for a fact that biceps can be elongated by doing a longer let-down time, so the rythm is 3sec. up, 5 sec. hold, 8 sec. release. Like I said its really intense but I has helped me. Its not something specific but they are variations in technique which help rip muscle in certain ways.

Of course alot of the traits which we consider genetic are in fact in-euteran deteminants, so there are some things which are hard to change, however not imposible- as you said plastic surgery.

I kind of went off on a tangent, its just that the ignorance of purely genetic traits is something that gets me fired up. Sorry guys.

Of course it's not purely genetic, dipshit. You said there is no such thing as a genetic trait and that anyone can have whatever size, shape muscles they want. It's not ignorance of other people, you're just chalk full of misinformation.

[Cybergasm]

Of course it's not purely genetic, dipshit. You said there is no such thing as a genetic trait and that anyone can have whatever size, shape muscles they want. It's not ignorance of other people, you're just chalk full of misinformation.
I apologized for my overreaction, I do hope we can continue this in a civil manner.

I should have said there is no such thing as "purely genetic."

Of course you are right not everyone can look like Bill Phillips (http://www.bodyforlife.ie/images/billPhillips.jpg) but with proper excercise and diet people can reveal their own abs which will look similar to that, and I know for a fact that it is possible for EVERYONE to rip apart their biceps so all three parts show.

I mean will you argue that we are all born with a muscular skeleton based upon the same guideline?

Of course you may question how that is possible due to shifting enviroments, but that is a whole nother level of biology that I don't even udnerstand it. All I know is that for certain traits the genetic influnce is so great (like hundreds of genes making sure something looks like how it shouls) that it is close to imposible (like a baby weened in a smoke canister) to brake them.

Now the ignorance I was speaking off was less to this thread and more of a personal rant against the thousands of doctors who are still convinced things like cholesterol are 100% genetic, when it is clear there is nothing that is 100%, purely, genetic.

[Who's the Boss?]

I apologized for my overreaction, I do hope we can continue this in a civil manner.

I should have said there is no such thing as "purely genetic."


Damn, I already made that thread in the pit to ridicule you. We better get in there before people start asking questions.

[Cybergasm]

Damn, I already made that thread in the pit to ridicule you. We better get in there before people start asking questions.
I honestly don't know if you are still riduculing me or not, but whatever man... Im gonna try and not sink to this level if you're still continuing on with this.

[Who's the Boss?]

I honestly don't know if you are still riduculing me or not, but whatever man... Im gonna try and not sink to this level if you're still continuing on with this.

I'm not.

[Cybergasm]

I'm not.
Oh... cool... so, that's the first time someone stopped after I explained my mistake... I don't know how to respond to be honest... um...

:chug:

[Who's the Boss?]

Oh... cool... so, that's the first time someone stopped after I explained my mistake... I don't know how to respond to be honest... um...

:chug:

:chug:

[wonder_steve]

Cybergasm, why don't you go to www.intensemuscle.com and argue there. I will be looking for a thread.

If you don't have a bicep peak in your genetic make up you cannot get one by lifting 96.5% of you max whilst rotating on the spot with one leg stuck out at a 23 degree angle. I know lifters who have been trying for years to get a peak, they have tryed everything and still don't have one. What's the moral of the story? To listen to a user on www.musicianforums.com?

I have short biceps and highish lat inserts. I cannot change this, the only way it can change is if the muscle belly extended which means the tendon would have to shift, that is impossible. They are under intense 'tension'

If I took a person new to lifting and made them do close grip curls would they have one head far larger than the other?

I am certainly not misinformed on the subject. Like I stated above go to www.intensemuscle.com there are far more people educated in these sorts of things than on this site, you may think you are right because you insulted me in large font but try to put your points across on that site.

For example skin color is highly affected by the enviroment the baby grows up in and is weened in. If the parents are the blackest people in the world, but the mother spends her pregnancy secluded from light, the baby will not be black, or at least not as black as the genetics dictate.

We've known about this for a while, its called adaption.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaption

the only reason its not so mainstream is because it is very recent knowledge, and as is supsected it will take some time before it is integrated
Link from a good source please.

No those things too can be changed, but its a very though and demanding process.

Please, explain this process.

Again, I repeat that there is nothing purely genetic
Of course, if we were to never,ever change evolution would never work.

Well I know for a fact that biceps can be elongated by doing a longer let-down time, so the rythm is 3sec. up, 5 sec. hold, 8 sec. release. Like I said its really intense but has helped me. Its not something specific but there are variations in technique which help rip muscle in certain ways.

This is just controlling the weights, and having a long negative, this just places more stress on the muscle fibres. Great in a size gainign sense but it will not shift tendons.

Of course you are right not everyone can look like Bill Phillips but with proper excercise and diet people can reveal their own abs which will look similar to that, and I know for a fact that it is possible for EVERYONE to rip apart their biceps so all three parts show.

That is nothing at all special. The bicep also only has two heads.

Now please go to www.intensemuscle.com and share this revolution of lifting knowledge.

[Cybergasm]

Wonder_steve Im not even going to bother with you; it'd be like going back before the scientific revolution and preaching to the world that it is in fact round.

Secondly, I will only say this; what I was speaking about is only partly adaptation, to explain to you why this is would be to re-teach you a year's course of biology. What I was speaking of has nothing to do with weight-lifting, it is infact the knowledge that is breaking into the mainstream today. hell if you do search for Genes and Enviroment the first link will be discussing how they are realizing how, amongst all things, even human behavior is affected equally enough by our enviroment.

I do hope you realize every, EVERY, excercise, or diet plan you follow is using this to its advantage. Hell, its not in our genetics to have big biceps... if it was, and if genes were the biggest player as you put it, wouldn't we all be walking around with big biceps? No, the fact is we have to influence them outside our genomes to get them to grow, or to lenghten if need be so.

Of course stuff like that is vey trivial, and alot of the methods are ineffective, but it is possible; however that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing biceps, and it is junior-high knowledge that we have five major players in our arms:

The lateral deltoid
The anterior deltoid
Triceps Brachii
Biceps Brachii
Brachialis

A big part of the reason many people don't get as defined biceps as they need to is because they ignore a big part of those muscles, like Brachialis which lie under the bicep and when worked they help it peak.

I guarantee that if you followed a proper training regime, and did your excercises properly, then you would peak as well.

As for that website, I wouldn't send my worst enemies there. Reading through only a few posts I can tell you that those people know very little outside of weighlifting, and alot of what I am talking about extends to outside that world.

I also did a quick google on "Bicep Peak" and read some other forum discussions and not once is the inability to peak biceps mentioned.

[wonder_steve]

Wonder_steve Im not even going to bother with you; it'd be like going back before the scientific revolution and preaching to the world that it is in fact round.

Cybergasm please do not ignore my post. If you cannot respond to the posts please do not excuse them as stupid. Just because I proved your points wrong, does not mean that you try and save face with all the others in the sport forum by blowing my post off.

BTW Dave Henry, who place 15th at the Mr Olympia is coached By Doggcrapp, who runs The 'Doggpound' there. Many people hire not only him but another person to help with contest preperation. Doggcrapp himself is over 300 pounds with a very modest bodyfat, coming from about 140 lbs.

Tell me, if he knew nothing about lifting why does he coach many elite bodybuilders, one who placed in the mr Olympia and how could he come so far.

Who are you to say that site is crap?

I am very disappointed with the way you handled this, it is clear you need to mature and gain some experiance and not rely on theory.

I will await a proper answer for my post above.

ATM I am taking my dog for a walk, I will be back in 20 or so minutes.

[wonder_steve]

As for that website, I wouldn't send my worst enemies there. Reading through only a few posts I can tell you that those people know very little outside of weighlifting, and alot of what I am talking about extends to outside that world.

It is a site about bodybuilding/ powerlifting. What do you expect the topics to be about?

Here's one topic just for you
http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=11248

Shocked that they can read? Or that they have any notion of religion.

Just because you cannot prove anybody wrong to not try to pass them of as no-neck muscleheads. There are many people that study at places of higher learning, but with the topic being bodybuilding I somehow wonder how you expect them to be talking about 'the worlds outside of lifting'

[Cybergasm]

Cybergasm please do not ignore my post. If you cannot respond to the posts please do not excuse them as stupid. Just because I proved your points wrong, does not mean that you try and save face with all the others in the sport forum by blowing my post off.

BTW Dave Henry, who place 15th at the Mr Olympia is coached By Doggcrapp, who runs The 'Doggpound' there. Many people hire not only him but another person to help with contest preperation. Doggcrapp himself is over 300 pounds with a very modest bodyfat, coming from about 140 lbs.

Tell me, if he knew nothing about lifting why does he coach many elite bodybuilders, one who placed in the mr Olympia and how could he come so far.

Who are you to say that site is crap?

I am very disappointed with the way you handled this, it is clear you need to mature and gain some experiance and not rely on theory.

I will await a proper answer for my post above.

ATM I am taking my dog for a walk, I will be back in 20 or so minutes.
:confused: I haven't handeled myself maturely? Whatever kid, just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are immature.

The reason I didn't answer your posts AGAIN was because I had done it once. I also never said the site was bad for specific information relating bodybuilding, because the guy obviously knows how to do a proper curl, I ment that it was way too one sided.

As for the experience, well I have been working on body-building for two years. I have gained major experience into the way the body works through years of studying Muay Thai and Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. I know for a fact that every person I have helped, or have seen at the gym, when properly excercising, has obtained proper Bicep peak.

I am currently looking further into this matter, and I do hope to be able to more oficially discuss this tommrow after some of my inquiries go through elsewhere.

Also I get most of my information from the Phillips brothers and the good people at Isotori and BFL... you know, the ones who have actual degrees? Who design and produce the world's leading protein shakes and the makers of what is currently considered to be the only effective metabolic enhance; Lean System 7.

I would trust their knowledge more then some guy who whose credit is winning Mr.Olympia; also not to be a cheap shot... but steroids much?

It is a site about bodybuilding/ powerlifting. What do you expect the topics to be about?

Here's one topic just for you
http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=11248

Shocked that they can read? Or that they have any notion of religion.

Just because you cannot prove anybody wrong to not try to pass them of as no-neck muscleheads. There are many people that study at places of higher learning, but with the topic being bodybuilding I somehow wonder how you expect them to be talking about 'the worlds outside of lifting'
I never said they were stupid, I just said there knowledge was too based in simple power and weight lifting. They have nothing to back themselves up with; the people at Isotori are constantly doing results and drafting people to test out their programs and new suplements. They also monitor more besides face-value gain so that they may know how other factors affect muscle and maybe one day they can in fact find a way to 100% shift muscles to their liking. All this while your guys lift incentously and preach out of date mantras.

Another thing, if you think this is about proving one another wrong, please tell, so I can stop now. I am simply still in this conversation because I believe I can learn something; even if it is not directly about biceps (like I learned about this guy just a second ago).

Also, do you realize that up untill a couple of years ago people were saying the ability to lose fat is geneticly related? Psha... I hope you won't stand there and argue that with me, cause I personally have lost close to 80lbs of body fat, while my whole family is plauged with obesity.

The fact of the matter is this; it can be done. However, it will not happen within the same time fram or with the same effort as everyon else. Those that give up or that excercise improperly and fail time after time blame it on their genetics (as was done with fat), and rumors like this get spread. The fact is with time and determination and proper methods, it can be done.

I attribute that last pargraph to my friend David "Big Guns".

If you are interested here is the other thread I started to gain more information about this:
http://www.realsolutionsmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=5269&pageNo=1&num=20

There is also a nice response there which I wish you would read.

I also wish I could continue this now, but I have to go to sleep... its five in the morning here.

Ill read up on what you had to say tommorow.

[wonder_steve]

This may be a little out of series.

I would trust their knowledge more then some guy who whose credit is winning Mr.Olympia; also not to be a cheap shot... but steroids much?

Steroids do not take you from 160lbs of skin and bones to 300lbs of granite like muscle. This is a little thing that I have, if I say something about the effort that someone like Dorian Yates put in to go from what he was(rather small) to Mr Olympia, a lot of people just say 'roids, as if they could do it tomorrow.

I have found In MY experience that there are 2 kinds of people in bodybuilding (To put it in very layman's terms):
People high on theory and low on experience.
These people are usually the same weight they are when they stopped getting NOOB gains, be that 4 years ago. I have seen countless personal trainers like this. They are the people that can tell you how to get big but can't themselves even using their own methods.

People high on experience
There are many of these people on the board I posted, at first it may look iffy as you mentioned but learn about the methods. Sign up to the site, go to the 'Doggpound', look at the trainees in the stickees.
These are people who have worked out how their body responds to weight training. That keep it simple for a reason, it works. Example

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110&st=0&p=15343&#entry15343

That link shows a powerlifter dieted down. I am not sure if you know much about powerlifter training but it is kept to the basics and strength increases are a must. While I will not be nieve and say he is clean, it takes a hell of a lot of hard work to get to that stage, not just taking roids than going to sleep, waking up huge.

I never said they were stupid, I just said there knowledge was too based in simple power and weight lifting. They have nothing to back themselves up with; the people at Isotori are constantly doing results and drafting people to test out their programs and new suplements. They also monitor more besides face-value gain so that they may know how other factors affect muscle and maybe one day they can in fact find a way to 100% shift muscles to their liking. All this while your guys lift incentously and preach out of date mantras.


Doggcrapp follows the principle that as strength gains come so do size gains (do not quote me on that), he reasons that a person who started of squating 155 for 5 reps and in time squats 450 for 10 will have major leg gains. They do not have studies conducted on how it works, they just use experience. If it takes someone to the Olympia (I'm not sure if you know about Dave Henry's story) I say it's proof enough. That being said, the method is rather complex to grasp. If you search around on the forum or answer questions, it will be a lot easier to understand.

Can we please prevent this from becoming a 'my guys VS your guys'. I do not follow Doggcrapps methods, it is a very advanced routine that no teenager or anyone without 5 years of lifting should do, but he and the people of that board are some of the most experienced lifters I have come across.


BTW the article you posted earlier in the thread took a reference for Arnold's Encyclopedia. Does That mean I should disregard everything ever said by him just because he was a 'roid user. Though I really dislike the book.

Another thing, if you think this is about proving one another wrong, please tell, so I can stop now. I am simply still in this conversation because I believe I can learn something; even if it is not directly about biceps (like I learned about this guy just a second ago).

That sort of 'you're wrong, here's why' talking will get us nowhere. I will try to keep it as civil as possible. :)

Also, do you realize that up untill a couple of years ago people were saying the ability to lose fat is geneticly related? Psha... I hope you won't stand there and argue that with me, cause I personally have lost close to 80lbs of body fat, while my whole family is plauged with obesity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Also, do you realize that up untill a couple of years ago people were saying the ability to lose fat is geneticly related"

If you are refering to things like enodmorphs and ectomorphs I would have to disagree. I have been overweight in the past, from not eating right and only doing exercise in rugby season. My brother on the other does no exercise, eats like a pig, drinks and smokes never gains weight.

I'm not sure if this is what you are refering to, i'll leave it at a cliffhanger untill you clear it up.

I am reading through the site in your link, I am finding it very hard to find any articles or pictures which prove that the bicep can be given a peak if it is not in the genetic makeup.I might be missing something, I apoligise if this is the case.

BTW I'm in Australia so we might have major breaks between posts.

[wonder_steve]

All this while your guys lift incentously and preach out of date mantras.

What mantras are these, please provide links.
Also I see little in the way of great bodies on the board you posted.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

you still cannot change the shape of your muscle. i.e. you can't make your bicep longer... some people have a bicep that goes all the way to the forearm and some peoples bicep ends like an inch from the forearm. you can't change that. you can't make your chest more square or more round or more close together. that's purely genetic.
According to my brother, everyone's bicep "ends like an inch from the forearm". When people flex and you see a muscle that extends all the way to the forearm you are seeing someone that has paid special attention to working out their brachiaradialis(sp?) the little muscle around your veiny area on the "other side" of your elbow.

[Cybergasm]

To me this is a great body:http://www.bodyforlife.ie/images/billPhillips.jpg

Not this: http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/cb/300px-Arnold-flexing.jpg

I won't adress anything you said about the people on your website; I see now why we will never agree... it simply we have two different views of what is a great body. Anyway, that whole discussion was beyond the point.

Why do I believe that everyone can have great bicep peak? Well from personal experience I have yet to find anyone who has worked hard and followed a plan dedicated to cutting fat and increasing muscle mass that has not achieved great bicep peak.

Here is what I propose we settle on: it is possible to obtain great bicep peak, just harder for some then others. This latter fact causes some programs, such as the one from your site, to work tremendously for those with "gifted genes" while other would have to follow a whole 'nother plan dedicated to developing and sculpting "their genetics" the way it has to be done so that they can achieve great Bicep peak.

I personally see no way you can argue that Bicep peak is not possible for everyone. First off it is imposible to link "bicep peak genes." Secondly, neither of us know, no one in the world, for that matter, knows the exact genetic make-ups of the people with and the people without bicep peak.

I simply think that the plan outlined in that forum won't build bicep peak for everyone, simply because it focuses more on mass then cutting. Some people need more cutting to reveal their biceps and to get them to peak, while others can do fine by just lifting for strength.

Also you asked about the fat burning thing. Well, not long ago, people believed it was imposible for everyone to shed enough fat to get to their abdominals. In fact it was said that fat burning at all is imposible to some due to their genetics. Same as you are saying with Bicep peak. Not two long ago Body-For-Life made history when they showed that thousands of clients who have tried the Body-For-Life were in fact able to shed the fat and reveal their sexy mid-sections; many of the BFL winners have stated that they were told that due to their genetics they couldn't burn fat.

www.body-for-life.com Find some of the transformation photos.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Yo man don't be hating on Arnie, :p.

[wonder_steve]

According to my brother, everyone's bicep "ends like an inch from the forearm". When people flex and you see a muscle that extends all the way to the forearm you are seeing someone that has paid special attention to working out their brachiaradialis(sp?) the little muscle around your veiny area on the "other side" of your elbow.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6287&d=1121369216

If that link works it will show you someone who has never worried about training certain parts of the bicep but instead is gifted with great muscle bellies.

[wonder_steve]

I won't adress anything you said about the people on your website; I see now why we will never agree... it simply we have two different views of what is a great body. Anyway, that whole discussion was beyond the point.

Well I can't disagree that we have different 'tastes' when it comes to bodies, although I do prefer Frank Zane to Ronnie Coleman.
I would like you to answer some of the questions or statements I put forward. The Doggcrapp program is for people who can't get anywhere else, they have gone as far as they think they have. It can take 'ungifted' bodybuilders and do great things.

I simply think that the plan outlined in that forum won't build bicep peak for everyone, simply because it focuses more on mass then cutting. Some people need more cutting to reveal their biceps and to get them to peak, while others can do fine by just lifting for strength.

Did you actually read 'the plan'? The original stickies for that method were taken down, it would take a lot of searching on the site to be able to come up with an outline on the plan.
Many people who use that program compete. That means they do get very cut to do so.

Also you asked about the fat burning thing. Well, not long ago, people believed it was imposible for everyone to shed enough fat to get to their abdominals. In fact it was said that fat burning at all is imposible to some due to their genetics. Same as you are saying with Bicep peak. Not two long ago Body-For-Life made history when they showed that thousands of clients who have tried the Body-For-Life were in fact able to shed the fat and reveal their sexy mid-sections; many of the BFL winners have stated that they were told that due to their genetics they couldn't burn fat.

Not meaning to nitpick but do you have any evidence of statements about not being able to lose fat due to genetics?

Here is what I propose we settle on: it is possible to obtain great bicep peak, just harder for some then others. This latter fact causes some programs, such as the one from your site, to work tremendously for those with "gifted genes" while other would have to follow a whole 'nother plan dedicated to developing and sculpting "their genetics" the way it has to be done so that they can achieve great Bicep peak.

I'm afraid I cannot settle on that. I will be happy to agree to disagree on this subject. The point was not just about building a bicep peak it was about shaping a muscle as well.

[Cybergasm]

I don't have any sources but it is something that was widely believed. The problem with finding any statements that say that anymore is that no one does say it anymore. It would kind of be like trying to find a current day source that argue that the world is flat. However, I do believe if you look at many fitness websites, doesn't matter which, you will find alot of questions asking about genetics and the ability to gain a six-pack (a.k.a shed fat), thus proving that many people were told, or were introduced at some point in their life to the notion that not everyone can shed fat due to their genetics.

You are right, I do not know much about the specifics of that program, but from what you have told me, and from the little i have read it seems to me the approach is to gain mass and in doing so lose fat. The program, as you yourself had stated, is for more advanced people, so I take it that it would assume that the user was already pretty cut.

My only point in talking about the programs was the fact that it is different from other programs; but that is because every program is different. For example, someone following the Atkins diet would very seldomly get a six-pack... so would it not be probable to say then, from the results of the Atkins diet, that not everyone can get a six-pack?

My point was simple in that all I ment to say was that it is possible that with this specific program people without good genetics can not get that bicep peak, simply because it does not focus enough on the muscles that people like that need (as you stated, some people can simply do curls and have great arms... others can not). So, of course, if you were to use those results, from a program such as that, then it is highly probable that you would conclude the idea that not everyone can get good bicep peak.

However, it has been my experience, and from what I hear from the other source, the experience of other certified trainers (who do not train advanced weight-lifters, nor who do not focus specificaly on the regular populace) that it is posible for everyone to get good bicep peak.

After this discussion I am a big believer of the idea that it is simply the difference in the programs; and I would be more then happy to agree to disagree.

Also if you check back in my previously linked there, on the other site, there is now a professional body-builder, who competes and all, that has agreed with me saying that with work and determination everyone can peak biceps.

There is also an explenation as to why some can do it faster then others;
people with short arms need less mass for them to peak, while people with long arms need more mass because they have a larger area to cover and to peak.

[wonder_steve]

You are right, I do not know much about the specifics of that program, but from what you have told me, and from the little i have read it seems to me the approach is to gain mass and in doing so lose fat.

It is more gaining lean mass while keepping the fat down, with things such as carb cutoffs and cardio which also helps recovery.

Also if you check back in my previously linked there, on the other site, there is now a professional body-builder, who competes and all, that has agreed with me saying that with work and determination everyone can peak biceps.

I must of missed this.

I am not a fan of that site, it seems that they worry far too much about getting a pump and overanalyse their training. I also find it hard to take it seriously when there is a teen with 11 inch arms bragging about how he gainined 8/13 of an inch in a week with other members giving him e-fellatio. No offense meant.

Please don't take me the wrong way, I know some people are just luckier when it comes to size. But I am far more impressed if someone with 11 inch arms and a 36 inch chest busted his balls. put on weight and got to 15 inch arms and a 41 inch chest. Rather than someone who has always had massive arms gains half an inch.

I'm not sure if I just explained that right, if you cannot understand it I will try to explain it better.

If you had some before and after photos which showed someone keeping the same weight but adding a peak, I will be far more convinced.

Overall I think we will end up agreeing to disagree.

[Cybergasm]

If you had some before and after photos which showed someone keeping the same weight but adding a peak, I will be far more convinced.

Here is one story which I think shows that, he was 7lbs. lighter, but its not much, and his peak is nice even without flexing:
http://www.bodyforlife.com/success/successStories.asp?cmsId=951

Im not sure who you are talking about on the forum with the huge arms, but I think any gain is worthy of applause. Also that forum is very encouraging, we help each other by applauding even our smallest accomplishments because that will go far in the long run.

One of the reason I like that forum alot more then the one you showed me is because that forum is sort of aimed at regular people who can afford to spend maybe 30-45 minutes in the gym. While, as you said, yours is more for the advanced lifters. But, that is neither here nor there.

I wanna say I am glad we both seemed to have calmed down. I aplogize if I came off in an insulting manner earlier, this is just something I am very passionet about and I do tend to lose my head.

In closing here is another interesting thing you might like: http://www.realsolutionsmag.com/Gallery/

It is a composition of all the people on that forum and their results. Many are still working twoards there goal, but you can see that they are making results already.

[wonder_steve]

Here is one story which I think shows that, he was 7lbs. lighter, but its not much, and his peak is nice even without flexing:
http://www.bodyforlife.com/success/successStories.asp?cmsId=951

That shows a rather dramatic change in a persons overall body. A lot of those gains can be attributed to 'noob gains'. I am not taking anything away from the program, website or person. Its just I was looking for a photo which would show someone bicep before without a peak and after with a peak, with no substantial change in overall muscle.

Im not sure who you are talking about on the forum with the huge arms, but I think any gain is worthy of applause. Also that forum is very encouraging, we help each other by applauding even our smallest accomplishments because that will go far in the long run.

I was searching the forums for information when I happened across a page with what I described, then I kinda, sorta went of on a tangent. Sorry.

I wanna say I am glad we both seemed to have calmed down. I aplogize if I came off in an insulting manner earlier, this is just something I am very passionet about and I do tend to lose my head.

Internet fights are teh ghey. :)

I tend to look towards competetive bodybuilding, it seems that most on that forum want to look better, not compete. It seems that I placed the wrong expectations upon the forum.

I encourage anyone who wants to make a positive change about their body. The people in that gallery havee made a positive change, kudos goes to them.

[Cybergasm]

Internet fights are teh ghey. :)


:) This was a happy ending. Good discussion mate, good discussion.

[wonder_steve]

To you as well. :)

[justlikealex]

this site shows some excercizes and little vids of how to execute them, theres a section on biceps

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

[dancetomdance182]

this site shows some excercizes and little vids of how to execute them, theres a section on biceps

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

That's an excellent site. Good site especially for beginners.