Incase you hadnt already heard..

[kingdead]

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/106046.php

****ed.

[Let's Chop Cats!]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=100498
Last night, at Skrappy's in Tucson, AZ a man in his 20's, was allegedly shot to death while attending a Shattered Realm and Donnybrook show. The fight broke during out between two (or more) groups of people during Donnybrook's last song. Following the fight, the group(s) were thrown out of the venue and that's when all hell broke loose. According to sources, weapons such as hammers, machetes, gun(s) and brass knuckles were involved. Details are vague at the moment and I don't want to accidentally drop names of people who really weren't involved. Check out a video news report on the incident right hereand read a witness account below. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the victim... a night of enjoyment should never turn this ugly.

1st person account in link.

[chips88]

http://www.txhc.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=5437

just saw this on the txhc board. That is messed up, wow.

[Billy]

I read about this. It's very sad, and retarded at the same time.

[Permanent Solution]

This is why modern Hardcore cuture is so stupid imo.

[BuddyBigsby]

If what I've been reading is true, the kid was just defending himself. Good.

[TakeWarning]

That's ****ed up.

[Let's Chop Cats!]

I'm pretty sure this is all a hoax.

/biggest asshole remark.

[pOOPY]

Scott, you post on lambgoat right? Those kids are the biggest bunch of ****ing dickheads I've seen in a while. They're all saying how it's cool that an FSU dude died and they hoped more had been killed. I know you have a strong dislike for FSU, but I hope you don't share that opinion.

[Tyler]

This is ****ing bullshit. This all arose from some tough guys not wanting kids from a certain area to mosh? How can they be serious?

[The Great Decay]

Yeah, I'm a nOOb, but could someone explain to me what the FSU is?

[pOOPY]

Let's not let all the gossip and hearsay make us judge anyone. If it really was self defense then ok, I'd have done the same thing. But at this point it's not fair to make your judgement when you know nothing for certain except that a guy was shot and killed.

[Tyler]

I'm just saying, violence didn't need to be used by anyone in the first place. And now somebody is dead.

[BuddyBigsby]

Scott, you post on lambgoat right? Those kids are the biggest bunch of ****ing dickheads I've seen in a while. They're all saying how it's cool that an FSU dude died and they hoped more had been killed. I know you have a strong dislike for FSU, but I hope you don't share that opinion.

I don't post there anymore.

And most of them aren't kids, they're grown men, and they don't know anything about hardcore, its mostly metalheads. They don't take themselves or their comments seriously, don't pay attention to them.

I don't think that more FSU should have been killed, but if what I'm hearing about the guy that did get killed is true - that he broke into the kids car with a hammer, threatened hsi life, and started crawling in through the cabin after the kid and the fourteen year old that was with him - then I think he got exactly what he had coming to him and I applaud the victim for standing up for himself. I feel sympathy for the FSU guy's friends and family, but none for him. He brought it upon himself, and over what? Someone moshing into one of his friends? Grow the **** up.

I'm not ignorant enough to make a blanket statement about all FSU members being as meathead/violent as this guy apparently was. I've actually met and talked to a couple of nice - at least at surface value - FSU guys. But I think that they're in the minority. They used to be a crew, and now they've become a gang that actively brings a negative atmosphere into shows and looks for fights, often times with kids half their size and age. I cannot in good conscious support that, and I honestly don't see how so many others can.

[pOOPY]

I'm not one to justify violence at a show, but you have no idea what the violence started. If someone pushes you to a certain point, you're gonna want to kick the **** out of them no matter where you are. You can't deny that. That could've just been a really extreme sitution. I understand it very easily could've been over some really trivial ****, but the fact of the matter is a hardcore kid with friends and family was murdered and we should be respectful of that. I feel bad for all the Arizona kids who are involved in all this drama. Now they probably won't get shows anymore either.

[bryce_the_cat]

Yeah, I'm a nOOb, but could someone explain to me what the FSU is?
Friends Stand United

[Tyler]

I don't think that more FSU should have been killed, but if what I'm hearing about the guy that did get killed is true - that he broke into the kids car with a hammer, threatened hsi life, and started crawling in through the cabin after the kid and the fourteen year old that was with him - then I think he got exactly what he had coming to him and I applaud the victim for standing up for himself. I feel sympathy for the guy's friends and family, but none for him.
You said it Scott.

[pixiesfanyo]

HXC needs a make over.

[pOOPY]

HXC needs a make over.
First order of business: getting anyone who says "HXC" or "SXE" in a ditch to be engulfed in flame.

[Tyler]

First order of business: getting anyone who says "HXC" or "SXE" in a ditch to be engulfed in flame.
aaaand you said it.

[kingdead]

Everything im hearing is saying the same thing but im waiting for some more scope before trying to make any sense of it.

[BuddyBigsby]

I'm not one to justify violence at a show, but you have no idea what the violence started. If someone pushes you to a certain point, you're gonna want to kick the **** out of them no matter where you are. You can't deny that. That could've just been a really extreme sitution. I understand it very easily could've been over some really trivial ****, but the fact of the matter is a hardcore kid with friends and family was murdered and we should be respectful of that. I feel bad for all the Arizona kids who are involved in all this drama. Now they probably won't get shows anymore either.

When some huge guy started punching my friend in the head for pushing his buddy in the pit, you know how I settled it? I talked to him, and we ended up having a good half hour conversation and everyone was cool.

When my friend got jumped the other week for pushing a kid away that was moshing into him, you know what I did even though I was furious? I attempted to talk to the guy with all of his friends, including an FSU guy, around. It didn't work because a.) he was too much of a meathead and b.) he was heated, adn it could've escalated much further. I could've gotten my brass knucks my friend had left in my car, or I could've gotten the Club device out of my drunk and knocked him out cold. I could've gone home and gotten the gun out of my Dad's dresser drawer. But you know what I did? I walked away. Swallow your pride, nothing is worth your life except for your family. Not a show, not hardcore. Even in my case, the means did not justify the ends. This guy came at two kids with a machete, alledgedly after saying "You know you're dead, right?"

How the **** is that kid supposed to react? Take it and say, "Thank you Mr. FSU sir, may I have another?" I think not. Guy got what he deserved.

And about the respect thing, this guy did nothing to deserve my or anybody's respect in life - so why should he get it in death for his own stupid actions?

[BuddyBigsby]

And another thing, say this kid had had his head beaten in by the FSU douche with a hammer? Think FSU would have shed a tear? No. Think they would have show an ounce of respect? HAHAHA.

Would you even be getting on anyone's case about making fun of HIS death? Probably not.

People need to stop glorifying FSU. These are not good people.

This **** has been coming for a long time now. These guys put a middle aged man out of consciousness and into the hospital at that Jersey Unearth/Terror show last year for trying to protect his son from being jumped.

I've witnessed first hand a member of FSU (who is also in one of your favorite bands) pick on a kid that couldn't have been older than 16 because he was wearing a helmet in the circle pit, slap the kid in the head, and when the kid steps up to him, he get choked out by an equally gargantuan FSU member. The only reason a 900lb. vs. 100lb. fight didn't ensue was because a member of the band playing had to step off stage and diffuse the situation.

They're not just sticking up for their friends or "keeping it real. Why are there more fights at shows with FSU bands than at your run of the mill local hardcore/punk show? There's a reason.

[south_guitar]

That's terrible. That's not what all hardcore shows are like and this is a horrendous incident that I hope never happens again, although situations like this are inevitable in any situation where a lot of people are together.

To me, hardcore music is about a lifestyle that is chosen to abstain from harmful trends and habits, particularly drugs and alchohol. This state of mind is expressed through heartfelt lyrics, aggressive style and energy, and an unreplicated live show. Everyone who wishes to attend a hardcore show should be there for the music; not for the scene, not to show off dance moves, not to fight. I feel like crews, or whatever you want to call them, like FSU are ruining the true hardcore spirit and mentality. Fights ruin shows. Period. If you have some **** to deal with, take it outside.

Not to sound like a total douche, but Gorilla Biscuits puts situations like this in perfect context:
"Are you here for music, or just to pick fights?"

[pOOPY]

You contradicted yourself. You're talking about just walking away but then you also say more power to the kid for killing someone. I already said I understand his reaction, if the guy really did say "You know you're dead, right?" and I had a gun I'd show him who was the ****ing deadman.

It's cool that you're able to stay calm like that. Personally, the littlest **** will make me explode. If someone pushed me far enough I could see myself grabbed a machete and promising them death.

On another note, I am really sorry that you have to put up with that bull****. Any FSU outside of Boston is basically just a bunch of immitators who want to act tough. At least Boston FSU had a purpose. I really wish **** like that wouldn't ruin shows for people. Norcal is usually pretty nonviolent, and for that I'm thankful.

[pOOPY]

And another thing, say this kid had had his head beaten in by the FSU douche with a hammer? Think FSU would have shed a tear? No. Think they would have show an ounce of respect? HAHAHA.

Would you even be getting on anyone's case about making fun of HIS death? Probably not.

People need to stop glorifying FSU. These are not good people.
Yeah, I would get on people's case. Moreso than for this.

And you know I'm the last one to glorify FSU.

[pOOPY]

And about the respect thing, this guy did nothing to deserve my or anybody's respect in life - so why should he get it in death for his own stupid actions?
You don't know that. He could have just been having a really ****ty day for all you know.

It seems like you're getting really defensive. I'm not trying to attack you at all dude.

[Tyler]

You contradicted yourself. You're talking about just walking away but then you also say more power to the kid for killing someone. I already said I understand his reaction, if the guy really did say "You know you're dead, right?" and I had a gun I'd show him who was the ****ing deadman.
I'm pretty sure the guy was trying to run before someone smashed in his window with a hammer then went after him with it.

[pOOPY]

I'm pretty sure the guy was trying to run before someone smashed in his window with a hammer then went after him with it.
I SAID I UNDERSTAND HIS REACTION IF THAT WAS THE CASE.

[Tyler]

k...

[BuddyBigsby]

You contradicted yourself. You're talking about just walking away but then you also say more power to the kid for killing someone. I already said I understand his reaction, if the guy really did say "You know you're dead, right?" and I had a gun I'd show him who was the ****ing deadman.

I think you misunderstood me. I walked away from a pissed off mexican wannabe gangsta. You can't walk away from a guy coming through your car window with a machete. I meant the FSU guy should've "flexed his head", taken a breath and evaluated the situation, and walked away. Its really not that hard.

It's cool that you're able to stay calm like that. Personally, the littlest **** will make me explode. If someone pushed me far enough I could see myself grabbed a machete and promising them death.

And in my eyes, if you make a death threat, and someone meets that by acting first, you completely deserve it. Its kill or be killed.

On another note, I am really sorry that you have to put up with that bull****. Any FSU outside of Boston is basically just a bunch of immitators who want to act tough. At least Boston FSU had a purpose. I really wish **** like that wouldn't ruin shows for people. Norcal is usually pretty nonviolent, and for that I'm thankful.

Right. I'm sure it varies by city and division, but ultimately I think that this crew has run its course. If they really feel that they are so influential and an integral part of the scene, they should be men and set an example.

[pOOPY]

Scott and I have agreed to not talk about this anymore til we know what actually happened.

[Let's Chop Cats!]

Brick killed someone.

[Tyler]

I stabbed a man with a trident.

[Let's Chop Cats!]

Tyler, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder.

[Lazybassplr56]

I swear is just talking about that movie earlier today.

[S.T.I]

It sure does suck someone died, FSU or not. This kinda **** just shouldn't be happening in hardcore in 2005.

[cbmartinez]

Too much hatred STOP

Hardcore sucks. This is terrible.

[Floydfanatic]

there's always loads of fsu at boston shows

theyre unavoidable, and usually don't bother me

[Berserker!]

I've witnessed first hand a member of FSU (who is also in one of your favorite bands) pick on a kid that couldn't have been older than 16 because he was wearing a helmet in the circle pit, slap the kid in the head, and when the kid steps up to him, he get choked out by an equally gargantuan FSU member.

Which band?

[RetiredAt21]

Too much hatred STOP

Hardcore sucks. This is terrible.

Hardcore doesn't suck!

[BuddyBigsby]

Which band?

Donnybrook.

[Mute Print]

I read about this yesterday, and was a bit shocked. I've just been getting into the hardcore scene, and I love it. I haven't been to many hardcore shows, but so far, I'm yet to see a fight. Around here, the members of the hardcore scene all know each other, and they seem to have a lot of respect fo one another. It's really a pretty cool environment.

Problems like this are what give hardcore its negitive reputation, and it's really too bad. Hardcore, for the most part, isn't about violence. From my experience (which is minimal), it seems that many bands promote unity in the scene, in an effort to try to strengten it. Unfortunately, issues such as this can do a lot of harm to the scene, which is really too bad.

I don't really understand why crews exist in hardcore, when in reality almost everyone at a hardcore show has a common bond - the music. This kind of thing doesn't belong in hardcore, or anywhere for that matter.

[Berserker!]

Donnybrook.

Wow, I was going to see them in January with Terror and Blacklisted...

thoughts?

[BuddyBigsby]

Those guys (and Terror) are always at shows out here. The rest of the DB! guys are pretty chill actually, its just the singer that always starts stupid crap. He's one of the worse FSU LA guys.

[Mute Print]

I saw Terror a couple weeks ago and they were great. They also gained my respect by plugging albums from a bunch of other bands who weren't even playing. They were also one of the bands that seemed to promote unity in the scene.

[BuddyBigsby]

Terror are good times.

[Berserker!]

I feel like a sucker for liking DB! now.

[pOOPY]

I feel like a sucker for liking DB! now.
How could you not have known about that?

[S.T.I]

Terror are great fun live. The first time i saw a fight at a show i was shocked but then i realised it's inevitable. When you have people brought up around violence and then people that try to start **** with them, then somethings gonna happen.