The "Which Preamp?" Thread.

[Cil]

Yes, that's right; Sade is going to be participating in Christmas, unwillingly this year.

My parents have offered to buy me something. (without any consent of mine, I may add!)

So what should it be? I'm thinking about the Fender TBP-1 tube pre, or the Tech 21 Sansamp RBI.

Any other preamp recommendations would be great, my max. budget is something like 600 USD.

[muthafunkabass]

never used the fender before, but itryed the sansamp. tone=super-warm. could only imagine how warm the tone would be with an ashdown cab.

[Cil]

I'm also looking at several Ampeg preamps. The all tube SVP looks decent, but I've heard little of them.

Any suggestions?

[edgebass5]

Okay, here's my thoughts.

I just got rid of a Fender TBP-1. Its a great pre, it really is. I just wanted something ridiculously flat and as knob-free as possible for live use, so I traded it for an Avalon U5 (there's another one to consider). The Fender's great, just don't expect a lot of top-end bite.

The Sansamp RBI is cool, and it sounds more tube-like then many preamps that have real tubes. Its very easy to lose definition with this one though, so if you're a mid-heavy kinda guy you might want to look elsewhere.

Ampeg pres....... great tone...... great features..... tons of noise. Every ampeg preamp I've tried (and I've tried every single one of their pres actually) has been noisey. So, if that's something you can live with go for it. If you're like me and can't stand noise, look elsewhere.

Other suggestions:
Avalon U5, Gallien-Krueger 2001RBP, BBE Bmax or Bmax-T, Eden preamp (forget the name), SWR IOD, etc. etc. etc.
http://www.basstasters.com has a great list of ideas for you to consider as well.

EDIT: Oh, and just for reference, calling ANY of the Ampeg SVP's all-tube is a bit misleading. They may have tubes in them, but most of the EQ is done in a solid-state section of the circuit. Just for your reference.

[muthafunkabass]

Okay, here's my thoughts.

I just got rid of a Fender TBP-1. Its a great pre, it really is. I just wanted something ridiculously flat and as knob-free as possible for live use, so I traded it for an Avalon U5 (there's another one to consider). The Fender's great, just don't expect a lot of top-end bite.

The Sansamp RBI is cool, and it sounds more tube-like then many preamps that have real tubes. Its very easy to lose definition with this one though, so if you're a mid-heavy kinda guy you might want to look elsewhere.

Ampeg pres....... great tone...... great features..... tons of noise. Every ampeg preamp I've tried (and I've tried every single one of their pres actually) has been noisey. So, if that's something you can live with go for it. If you're like me and can't stand noise, look elsewhere.

Other suggestions:
Avalon U5, Gallien-Krueger 2001RBP, BBE Bmax or Bmax-T, Eden preamp (forget the name), SWR IOD, etc. etc. etc.
http://www.basstasters.com has a great list of ideas for you to consider as well.
the nemesis one?

[Cil]

Yah, I played with the Fender TBP once or twice, it sounds pretty magical. Gives me lots of the live low-end my SWR sorely lacks.

[primus_eleven]

Marshall JMP 1, personal preference, probably not to your taste but always worth a look

[Cil]

Although, the SWR IOD would go nicely with my current amp.

I'm leaning towards the Fender, though.

BTW, Edge, your review of the TBP was quite helpful; nicely written, informative, and un-biased. As an editor for the school paper, I must call you out for your excellent review.

[Led_Zeppelin678]

I love my Ampeg SVP-BSP (and so do Billy Sheehan and Victor Wooten, I might add). Like Edge said, there's some noise, but I'm going to pick up a noise gate soon so that should solve the problem.

[Cil]

^Do you think you could link me to a place that sells it?

[Led_Zeppelin678]

Not many online places carry it, but you should be able to get it at a Guitar Center for $500.

Also, the OD samples on basstasters.com suck. If you want some samples, check out my soundclick:

http://www.soundclick.com/timothycmeyer

Clean Demo and Distorted Demo are the ones you want. Both were recorded direct from the preamp into my sound card, with my Warwick Corvette Standard with light guage strings.

[Jaded]

I love my Ampeg SVP-BSP (and so do Billy Sheehan and Victor Wooten, I might add). Like Edge said, there's some noise, but I'm going to pick up a noise gate soon so that should solve the problem.
I believe a noise gate wouldn't work, because the noise will still come through when you are playing. Maybe a good compressor? I'm not sure, but I think a compressor would work better, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jaded]

To Sade:
Have you considered an Alembic preamp? I think those should be within your price range.

Here's a used one.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:LQ5WYu5jgTcJ:www.guitarrez.com/usedbamps.html+alembic+preamps&hl=en&client=safari

[Cil]

Alembic is gay.

[naut]

To Sade:
Have you considered an Alembic preamp? I think those should be within your price range.

Here's a used one.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:LQ5WYu5jgTcJ:www.guitarrez.com/usedbamps.html+alembic+preamps&hl=en&client=safari

i think i asked you this before, but where do you live?

[Cil]

I'm liking the looks of the Ampeg All Tube preamp, I believe it's the one I shall be buying.

Any suggestions, anybody?

[naut]

you shouldn't buy anything by Ampeg. mainly beacuse i don't like Ampeg.

why?

i don't really know. just listen to me.

[Jaded]

i think i asked you this before, but where do you live?
Santa Barbara, (Southern) California.

Why?

[Jaded]

I'm liking the looks of the Ampeg All Tube preamp, I believe it's the one I shall be buying.

Any suggestions, anybody?
Ampeg is gay.

[Cil]

EDIT: Oh, and just for reference, calling ANY of the Ampeg SVP's all-tube is a bit misleading. They may have tubes in them, but most of the EQ is done in a solid-state section of the circuit. Just for your reference.

Yah, knew that, I'm just naming it All-Tube so you know which I'm talking about, as I don't know the actual, specific model number.

[Scooch]

What's a preamp?

[naut]

Santa Barbara, (Southern) California.

Why?

i had thought you lived in Texas, then you posted that link to Guitar Resurrection in Austin, Texas...

but, nevermind.:)

[edgebass5]

What's a preamp?

A preamp is a device that takes the output voltage of your bass (typically somewhere between 100-200mV) and boosts it to a level sufficient enough to drive a power amp (typically in the neighborhood of 500-600mV).

Most preamps have a tone shaping section as well.

Also, preamps can be found in any bass amp. Its essentially the "front-end"

[Mr. Pickle]

well, i have an RBI (thanks to edge btw) and it's a pretty cool little pre. It really gets a nice sound when you use a pics and yeah, it's really warm, which i personally am not a huge fan of, but i like it nonetheless.

Most gk preamps are spectacular IMO

[Scooch]

A preamp is a device that takes the output voltage of your bass (typically somewhere between 100-200mV) and boosts it to a level sufficient enough to drive a power amp (typically in the neighborhood of 500-600mV).

Most preamps have a tone shaping section as well.

Also, preamps can be found in any bass amp. Its essentially the "front-end"

Is there any difference in what an external preamp does and a preamp in an active bass does?

[edgebass5]

^^^Well, what you're referring to is the tone shaping aspects of a preamp. Yes and no, it all depends on what you're comparing. All will likely have active EQ, some will have effects, some will have passive tone circuits, some will have parametric and semi-parametric EQ's. The key difference here is that virtually all onboard preamps (i.e. what makes a bass active) are made from components that cost about $0.80 down at your local Radio Shack. No joke.

However, there is one key difference. There is no onboard preamp capable of driving a power amp by itself, the output voltage isn't high enough.

[Scooch]

Ok, thanks for the info.

[edgebass5]

Oh, and by the way Cil. I just came from practice with my metal band where I got to try out my new Avalon U5........ absolute aural sex my friend. I love this thing, and it might be just what you're looking for.

[Cil]

Oh, and by the way Cil. I just came from practice with my metal band where I got to try out my new Avalon U5........ absolute aural sex my friend. I love this thing, and it might be just what you're looking for.

May you link me, kind sir?

[Cil]

^Haha, I'm so lazy.

[Cil]

Holy crap, I'd buy that thing on pure looks alone. HAHA

[edgebass5]

http://www.avalondesign.com go to the products page and I think its in the right window, then just use the little 1-5 icons to read about it. I'd directly link you but the new site is in flash, so......

[Cil]

I'm digging the simplistic approach to this thing. Care to give me a brief review?

[edgebass5]

Well, basically it sets up a passive EQ curve (i.e. cuts out frequencies instead of boosting them), then it takes that passive EQ curve and allows you to boost it from +2db to +32db in 3db steps.

Its very natural sounding and not at all harsh. It is about as transparent as you can get. It takes the sound of your bass and makes it come out of your speaker cabinet. Although, it does add a little Avalon "magic" to enhance your tone, but it takes away nothing.... if that makes any sense.

So, if you're looking to drastically alter your tone, this is NOT the preamp for you. But if you're looking for really good tone in a simple package that really delivers, this is the one for you.

Oh, and this will make you laugh, the frequency response on this thing is insane. 5hz - 10khz....haha.... I laugh everytime I read that.

[Cil]

Well, basically it sets up a passive EQ curve (i.e. cuts out frequencies instead of boosting them), then it takes that passive EQ curve and allows you to boost it from +2db to +32db in 3db steps.

Its very natural sounding and not at all harsh. It is about as transparent as you can get. It takes the sound of your bass and makes it come out of your speaker cabinet. Although, it does add a little Avalon "magic" to enhance your tone, but it takes away nothing.... if that makes any sense.

So, if you're looking to drastically alter your tone, this is NOT the preamp for you. But if you're looking for really good tone in a simple package that really delivers, this is the one for you.

Oh, and this will make you laugh, the frequency response on this thing is insane. 5hz - 10khz....haha.... I laugh everytime I read that.

I totally dig that. I have all the tone I'll ever need locked within my multiple amps, I'm in the same boat as you: hurting for some simplistic, hard-core decent tone in one package for the live setting. I'm going to seriously look into this pre. Sounds amazing.

I've heard rumors of Avalon gear before, never had a chance to play through any, though. Good things though, good things.

[edgebass5]

its up at my band's studio right now, but I can post some recordings tomorrow night if you want. Also, every bass on http://www.basstasters.com has been run through the avalon u5, go check them out.

Although, just a thing of note. That site is pretty much worthless unless you've either got a great sound system on your computer, or a good set of headphones. Little tiny computer speakers won't tell you anything about how it really sounds.

[Cil]

its up at my band's studio right now, but I can post some recordings tomorrow night if you want. Also, every bass on http://www.basstasters.com has been run through the avalon u5, go check them out.

Although, just a thing of note. That site is pretty much worthless unless you've either got a great sound system on your computer, or a good set of headphones. Little tiny computer speakers won't tell you anything about how it really sounds.

Aye aye to that.

Soundclips would be much appriciated, and I will promise never to send any sarcasm your way if you do this task for me. :thumb:

[edgebass5]

haha, no problem man. Like I said, I won't be able to get you anything until tomorrow night at the earliest.

[Sade]

I'm hearning nothing but wonderful things about this DI/Pre, Edge.

I asked around at the local studio, too. Several producers I know have used Avalon gear in the past, one specifically had a session with a local blues band and used the Avalon U5, said it was amazing.

The majority of the positive qualities I'm hearing about it are the simplicity of the front panel. While, at first; it might seem quite upsetting to your average tone geek, the 6 preset EQ settings (from what I'm hearing from a variety of sources) are absolutely wonderful.

Another quality I seem to hear quite often is the crystal clear clarity of the preamp. How, you're able to hear rich, full, crisp tones that aren't harsh; the way your bass is SUPPOSED to sound.

I'm yet to hear a negative review yet. I believe my producer still has the Avalon somewhere in his studio; I'm going to inquire if he'll let me try the little bugger out. Sounds absolutely perfect for what I'm looking for.

[Sade]

I'm hearning nothing but wonderful things about this DI/Pre, Edge.

I asked around at the local studio, too. Several producers I know have used Avalon gear in the past, one specifically had a session with a local blues band and used the Avalon U5, said it was amazing.

The majority of the positive qualities I'm hearing about it are the simplicity of the front panel. While, at first; it might seem quite upsetting to your average tone geek, the 6 preset EQ settings (from what I'm hearing from a variety of sources) are absolutely wonderful.

Another quality I seem to hear quite often is the crystal clear clarity of the preamp. How, you're able to hear rich, full, crisp tones that aren't harsh; the way your bass is SUPPOSED to sound.

I'm yet to hear a negative review yet. I believe my producer still has the Avalon somewhere in his studio; I'm going to inquire if he'll let me try the little bugger out. Sounds absolutely perfect for what I'm looking for.

[Jaded]

Did you get banned already, Sade? Jeez that was fast. I'm kinda liking that Avalon, wouldn't mind having one myself, but I don't exactly have 600 bucks.

[somrandomguy]

I'd go with the SVP-Pro; I'm looking to get it myself once I'm no longer poor. As for noise problems, all you have to do is replace the tubes, which isn't all that expensive.

[edgebass5]

^^^The noise problem certainly did not come from the tubes man. The problem was present on many of the different models I tried in several different stores. Its an Ampeg problem, not a tube problem.

Sade: I got the Avalon U5 all hooked up and am ready to record some stuff if you want to hear it. What kind of stuff do you want me to record?

[Jaded]

Maybe it's the kind of tubes ampeg puts in their preamps?

[edgebass5]

^^^Not much can be altered between various 12AX7's or 12AU's. Its the preamps, trust me. Ampeg's EQ circuits are solid state anyway, and honestly I believe that's where the noise is coming from.

[Jaded]

Ah ok.

[edgebass5]

Okay, just recorded something down for the sake of listening. This was recorded with the Avalon U5 on setting 2, a 1983 Peavey Foundation 4-String equipped with some slightly dead GHS B52's (45-105). The first part is played with a pick (Jim Dunlop Tortex 1mm), the second part is slapped, the final bit if fingerstyle. The pick parts are random riffs from my band Vacant's song "Medicated Nation", the slapped parts should be recognizable, the fingerstyle stuff is just mindless noodling on the blues scale.

***PLEASE FORGIVE MY SLOPPY PLAYING***

The thing to note here is the insanse level of clarity. I never realized that my bass had so much fret buzz when using my old Fender preamp, but the Avalon U5 picks up EVERYTHING. Notice that when I slide the clarity grabs onto each fret.

Please, listen to this through a good stereo or some good studio headphones or you won't get everything you should out of it. Oh, and I had the input level on my soundcard a bit too high, so there's a few clips here and there... sorry.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=251767

[Cil]

^Sweet, I'll listen when I return home. Thanks, Edge. You da man.

[edgebass5]

Hey Sade/Cil, I just put another soundclip up on that site for your screening pleasure. This one has guitar AND bass going through the U5. The guitar is an Ovation Celebrity acoustic/electric using the U5 on setting 2. The bass is the same, but its played fingerstyle on setting 1. The drums are courtesy of Fruity Loops.

once again: PLEASE FORGIVE MY SLOPPY PLAYING

Just thought I'd give you a taste of how well this thing can cut through a mix, even when played on mellow fingerstyle stuff.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=251767

[Cil]

Omg Edgebass sucks!

Your pick tone is hawt. In fact, all the tones are hawt. I love it.

Aye, indeed I will be picking one of these up, for sure.

[Cil]

I'm such a huge fan of that really steril, modernized, clear as crystal tone. I like my bass to sound more like a MIDI than a bass. :thumb:

[muthafunkabass]

then why not just let powertab do everything for you? that one post has to be the single most dumb ting i have ever seen.

[The Brad]

then why not just let powertab do everything for you? that one post has to be the single most dumb ting i have ever seen.
There's so much more to MIDI than I think you realize. All MIDI is not equal to the ****ty 8-bit NES sounds.

As far as pre-amps. I think you are pretty sold on the Avalon, but I was just going to say that the RBI and SVP-BSP are okay too, can't really get distorted tones I like out of them but that's just me and I don't think you are a big fan of distortion anyway.
Also the SVT setting on the RBI sounds more like an Ampeg than the actual Ampeg pre-amp I owned. Only complaint with the RBI is that there is no mute switch and it's only one channel. Also the FX loop doesn't work properly on mine? Whatever though.

Edge: Nice tone. :thumb:

[edgebass5]

Omg Edgebass sucks!

I love it when someone on MX hits the nail right on the head :lol:

[The Brad]

I love it when someone on MX hits the nail right on the head :lol:
What is that basstaster's slap bit from?

[edgebass5]

^^^the slap stuff on basstasters is the verse section to the Red Hot Chili Peppers song Aeroplane

[Cil]

Edge, how's the volume live? Significantly louder/quieter, little difference than without the Avalon?

[edgebass5]

well, the output of the avalon is HOT HOT HOT. the balanced out (what I use for my power amp) is set at 600mV.

The boost circuit takes a while to get used to since its not a clean sweet, its set in +3db increments. But once you set it up, you never have to worry about it again.

[Cil]

well, the output of the avalon is HOT HOT HOT. the balanced out (what I use for my power amp) is set at 600mV.

The boost circuit takes a while to get used to since its not a clean sweet, its set in +3db increments. But once you set it up, you never have to worry about it again.

Aye, nice.

I'm looking to construct a blazing rig. After this, I think I might buy that Schroeder I've been longing for.

I'm looking at a crown power amp, as a possibility, too. Heard anything of them? I've not.

[edgebass5]

^^^Crown makes good power amps, so does Stewart Audio and so does Crest... however... my preference is QSC. Especially the PLX series stuff. Plus they're pretty moderately priced.

[Cil]

^^^Crown makes good power amps, so does Stewart Audio and so does Crest... however... my preference is QSC. Especially the PLX series stuff. Plus they're pretty moderately priced.

Aye to that.

QSC is always in the back of my mind. They are all over the place at the local studio.

That, and there seems to be alot of Carvin power amps floating around my local scene. Interesting.

Much unlike Carvin amps, I find, their power amps are pretty decent. Carvin amps seem to suffer from reliability problems frequently. Not a problem I've seen in many of their power amps. Not that I'd ever buy one, though.

In the end I'm probably going to go with a good old QSC, though. Just to be cliche. :thumb:

[edgebass5]

^^^qsc + Plx = Sex