Foot technique/ footware Poll

[firefoxzero]

Hi, I don't know if this has been done before but this is a poll for me to try and find out what the most preferred techniques are and what footware works best for each. There seems to be a lot of players who don't use footware which I am intrigued about.

If I had more options in the poll I'd use them btw.

I think there'll be some interesting results anyway.:thumb:

edit: btw the poll is multiple choice and public too.

[The Ska Man]

I tend to do incorporate a lot heel-toe stuff in my funkier playing, when I can. I usually wear shoes(Vans, Slip ons).

[EdBanger]

How do you do moellar with your foot ?
Is it the same conecpt as with your wrist ?

[The Ska Man]

How do you do moellar with your foot ?
Is it the same conecpt as with your wrist ?


I was thinking the same thing.

[firefoxzero]

How do you do moellar with your foot ?
Is it the same conecpt as with your wrist ?

I can't do it myself, I'm still messing about with heel-toe.

It's the same kinda concept, just different muscles. I've asked Tim Waterson about it though to see if he's got any quick articles or something. I'll post any answers here. :thumb:

[Bone]

Moellar.. never heard of that.


Moeller Technique maybe? Wich would be absolutely impossible to use with the lower half of the body.

Unless someone's got some seriouslly messed up joints and can make a whipping motion with their leg...

[Stert]

i use heel up, and for fast doubled i use slide. so i voted slide.

oh ya, i use shoes. they are small, leightweight, and thin. i think they are indoor soccer shoes. they are comparable to lowtop chuck taylors in effectiveness. i like having a rubber sole between my foot and the pedal cuz i can slide faster and hit harder while sliding. it makes my foot a little more ridged so the second note of the double comes out better.

[Chrysostom]

Heel down + Converses for me.

[~(lunch_box)~]

slide with shoes on:)

[Carn]

Moellar.. never heard of that.


Moeller Technique maybe? Wich would be absolutely impossible to use with the lower half of the body.

Unless someone's got some seriouslly messed up joints and can make a whipping motion with their leg...

indeed. But I bet the dude meant a sort of rocking motion, a downwards and upwards movement. Which indeed; has nothing to do with the actual Moeller technique. Altough Sanford Moeller was one of the first druminstructors to recognise the importance of the upstroke.

[raz0r]

Heel up/down with socks

The only way to play.

[GooseFilms.net]

Shoes on, and it's all about heel-toe. Heel-toe is so useful, and makes things feel so much easier and more comfortable then without it. Also good if you want to do any serious single double bass (as jojo mayer calls it). I play almost entirely heel-down also, very rarely up. The control factor is priceless.

Only reason i play with shoes instead of socks is because I started out with shoes, so that just feels more comfortable to me. It's not as hard to control the pedal with shoes on as most barefoot people think it is

Oh yeah, and I don't use slide mainly because I wear shoes. The whole idea behind the slide technique is that essentially, you slide your foot forward, and it takes way too much effort to slide a rubber sole across the pedal. The friction coefficients are way too high. Otherwise I would use it to come out of any single double bass run that has an odd amount of strokes in it to land on the toe, instead of the heel (odd amount of strokes, heel, toe, heel, toe, heel, toe, slide-toe)

[firefoxzero]

Moellar.. never heard of that.


Moeller Technique maybe? Wich would be absolutely impossible to use with the lower half of the body.

Unless someone's got some seriouslly messed up joints and can make a whipping motion with their leg...

Here's Tim Waterson's reply to my question (extremedrumming.com)

"Firefox this will be on the dvd Hard to explain but the same philosophy as with the hands.
You can do 2 3 or 4 notes per foot.
The whole concept with Moeller is to get the accent and be able to pull it off at higher speeds and make the most out of the hand or foot movement.
God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com"

I fancy getting his DVD

[Bone]

Interesting..

He's misslabling a lot and assuming a great deal. Would be interesting to see what's talking about. Though I know a lot of people that wouldn't really approve of using Moeller's name in such a manor other then the very specific technique it's the name of.

[firefoxzero]

Interesting..

He's misslabling a lot and assuming a great deal. Would be interesting to see what's talking about. Though I know a lot of people that wouldn't really approve of using Moeller's name in such a manor other then the very specific technique it's the name of.

Hmmmmm, maybe you should check out the website :naughty:

edit: It was posted above but: http://www.timwaterson.com here's the link

[Bone]

Oh I have.

I think the guy is deplorable in what he does. Zero respect for the instrument or the countless persons who have helped to evolve it.




"Tim forsees drumming as the next Olympic Sport!"

I think that says it all.


The donation button on his page is cute as well. Guess he doesn't get enough work with those fast feet...

[firefoxzero]

Oh I have.

I think the guy is deplorable in what he does. Zero respect for the instrument or the countless persons who have helped to evolve it.




"Tim forsees drumming as the next Olympic Sport!"

I think that says it all.

Good for you dude. He can do Moellar technique though, can you? :naughty:

[Bone]

It's Moeller.

Of course, a 6yr old could use Moeller. In fact most people use it now without knowing it. It's been part of the evolution of drumset technqiue. It's a very natural technique resulting from modern materials and drum construction.

The moeller technique was developed at the time due to playing on rope tensioned marching drums. Wich have very little rebound and require a great deal more effort to play then modern drums.

By the way.. it's not something you "do". It's a natural motion found inside the realm of playing drums.

[firefoxzero]

It's Moeller.

Of course, a 6yr old could use Moeller. In fact most people use it now without knowing it. It's been part of the evolution of drumset technqiue. It's a very natural technique resulting from modern materials and drum construction.

The moeller technique was developed at the time due to playing on rope tensioned marching drums. Wich have very little rebound and require a great deal more effort to play then modern drums.

I bow down to you king of moellar :rolleyes:
I didn't ask could did I?

[Futuro]

I chose every answer, Cause I am another form of god, Also known as Faith+1 on an internet forum.

Do you have Faith?

[Bone]

I bow down to you king of moellar :rolleyes:
I didn't ask could did I?


Wow. Well hey good for you dude. Keep enforcing that stereo type about the WFD people... might want to check out the Pearl forums, though the average user is about 12 yrs old, they have a very great appreciation for Tim and the rest of that crowd.

Ya want sport drumming, go to a sports forum. I dunno if you noticed but this is Musicians Forum.

[TTTSNB]

Heel up/down with socks.

[Carn]

Though I know a lot of people that wouldn't really approve of using Moeller's name in such a manor other then the very specific technique it's the name of.

My thoughts exactly. I wonder what Jim Chapin would say if he ran into Tim Waterson.

But ofcourse; you can go call any "movement" which consists of a downstroke, tap (or taps) and upstroke a "Moeller technique".

[Bone]

My thoughts exactly. I wonder what Jim Chapin would say if he ran into Tim Waterson.



Funny I was thinking the same thing. I'm pretty sure Jim would not exactly be happy.

[Stert]

Funny I was thinking the same thing. I'm pretty sure Jim would not exactly be happy.

thought the same thing.

when i play heel up i use my ankle to get a stroke in while my thigh is going up getting ready for the downstroke, then i just let my leg fall and hit the pedal again. so i get 2 hits in for every stroke of my thigh. but i think this is a very natural movement for someone who plays heel up relaxed.

when i need to play pretty fast doubles then i use slide.
and about using footwear, i use slippery shoes i guess. you know those soles that are made out of that light brown translucent rubber? thats what mine are. plus they are worn were there is no tread.

i also use shoes because i learned that way. i took private lessons when i started and didnt know people played barefoot/in socks so i would have never thought of taking off my shoes when i walked into the room for my first lesson. :D

[firefoxzero]

Wow. Well hey good for you dude. Keep enforcing that stereo type about the WFD people... might want to check out the Pearl forums, though the average user is about 12 yrs old, they have a very great appreciation for Tim and the rest of that crowd.

Ya want sport drumming, go to a sports forum. I dunno if you noticed but this is Musicians Forum.

Moellar was just an option in the poll. What is your problem?...... that you can't play moellar? Come on yes or no? :naughty: :evil:

[Futuro]

Moellar was just an option in the poll. What is your problem?...... that you can't play moellar? Come on yes or no? I would rather learn how to play every rudiment comfortably and with control, using my tried and tested foot technique than playing 30 notes a second on something one guy does...

Do you have Faith?

[firefoxzero]

I would rather learn how to play every rudiment comfortably and with control, using my tried and tested foot technique than playing 30 notes a second on something one guy does...

Do you have Faith?
Same here. I was just providing information. What's your tried and tested technique, can you actually play using all 5 techniques?

[Futuro]

Same here. I was just providing information. What's your tried and tested technique, can you actually play using all 5 techniques? No, I play guitar, never been a big fan of drums.

[Bone]

Moellar was just an option in the poll. What is your problem?...... that you can't play moellar? Come on yes or no? :naughty: :evil:


Nobody can play "moellar" on a kick drum because it doesn't exist. Not you. Not anyone.

Same here. I was just providing information. What's your tried and tested technique, can you actually play using all 5 techniques?

Your not providing information. You asked a question in the form of a poll.

Secondly what little "information" you are providing is blatently wrong and disrespectful.

[derryk]

^ Ba-Zing.

firefox- give up asking bone if he can do moeller on his pedal. it shouldn't matter if you can play moeller or heel up or heel down, as long as you play well, but if you want to play with your "moeller technique," start by spelling it MOELLER.
M - O - E - L - L - E - R
thanks.
equally, Bone, i think you're contradicting yourself.. you said it was a natural technique and then that it couldn't be done on a kick drum. did you mean it's a natural technique for your wrists?

[AtomShip]

chuck taylors

[Futuro]

you said it was a natural technique and then that it couldn't be done on a kick drum. did you mean it's a natural technique for your wrists? He said in the same post about moeller, and how it was developed.

The moeller technique was developed at the time due to playing on rope tensioned marching drums That says right there he was speaking of your hands.

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I couldn't vote, cause I use a combination of all the techniques... I don't really think about it, I just play. sometimes heel up, sometimes heel down, sometimes slide. Sometimes with my right foot, sometimes with my left foot. Always with shoes on. Never could get the hang of heel toe, my feet seem too big to do it? (size 14 shoe)

edit: oh haha it's a multichoice poll *feels stupid*

[Futuro]

Never could get the hang of heel toe, my feet seem too big to do it? (size 14 shoe) I do it, Im Huge.

[derryk]

^ slide is a bit more versatile i think for anyone just starting. you could master all ways to play your kick though and make them all sound the same.
That says right there he was speaking of your hands.
and my bad.. sorry if i seemed ignorant.:upset:

100th post!!:D

[Bone]

Haha it's cool. It's simply the natural whipping motion you see very often used today in drumset playing. It involves the arm, wrist hand, stick in one fluid arc like motion. Generating a very powerful strike from the stick, wich in turn produces a great deal more rebound and when that is controlled you have a few extra notes you can play without much effort. Wich some have mastered and can produce an absurd amount of notes.

[Carn]

and before people say: "W00t ****z0r I can d0 that, I know tha Moell4h"..well ofcourse, everybody can. But Moeller was the first to analyse the hand-wrist-arm motion and think of a method to develop that motion to a more effective level. Note the fact that I used the words hand, wrist and arm.

[firefoxzero]

I can't play moeller with my feet, I'll be the first to admit.
So what! I don't care.
I think everyone missed the point in this thread. If the moeller technique offends people by being in the poll, please just ignore it or something. I never knew people would start namecalling about it and stuff. :lol:

[Chrysostom]

Moellar

How many times have you seen that spelled correctly? It's Moeller, with an 'E' not an 'A'.

[Chrysostom]

I can't play moeller with my feet, I'll be the first to admit.


So you should, because you can't use the moeller technique with the feet. It's a hand technique.

[firefoxzero]

So you should, because you can't use the moeller technique with the feet. It's a hand technique.

Well obviously it won't work the same way as moeller with the hands because the knee joint bends the opposite way and the wrists are posed more sideways, that I agree with.:)

But even though the name mightn't be truly correct it's still based on the moeller :D concept and it's a technique. Maybe you think it should be renamed?

[derryk]

Well obviously it won't work the same way as moeller with the hands because the knee joint bends the opposite way and the wrists are posed more sideways, that I agree with.:)

But even though the name mightn't be truly correct it's still based on the moeller :D concept and it's a technique. Maybe you think it should be renamed?

well if it doesn't work the same way as the moeller technique, then why in the world would you call it the moeller technique.

also,
moeller
go back and change all of those!:lol:

[Tim]

heel up and heel down with socks sometimes and shoes sometimes. Just depends.

[firefoxzero]

well if it doesn't work the same way as the moeller technique, then why in the world would you call it the moeller technique.

also,

go back and change all of those!:lol:

:lol: What! I didn't actually name it you know. Maybe you should think of a different name for the technique, can I suggest "moellar" :naughty:

[Jezen]

obviously it won't work the same way as moeller with the hands

Yeah... That's because you can't whip your foot.

because the knee joint bends the opposite way

Are you trying to tell me that you play with your elbow?

Maybe you think it should be renamed?

I think you should get your facts straight, or alternatively, go die.

If the moeller technique offends people by being in the poll

A silly mistake won't offend anyone, but the ignorance really pisses people off.

please just ignore it or something.

This is where your true skill lies.....

[firefoxzero]

Steve Smith refers to the technique I'm talking about as constant release bass drum technique btw. It's similar to the concept of moeller.

From now on lets call it constant release bass drum technique. I don't think anyone will have a problem with that.

I'll post an good actual description of it when I find one. It's different from heel-toe and slide btw.

How am I being ignorant British Boy? Maybe you should calm yourself down, it's only an internet forum, I'm not here to flame as it pisses people off.

[Hyde]

I play heel up always barefooted. I can always feel my pedals and my feet aren't sliding from socks. Especially dress socks.... man those things slide like a mofo! I don't know how Vinnie Paul freakin' did it! And I can't feel the pedals through shoes... not even ones with thinner soles. Although it is easier to player abit faster and harder with them on. Anyhoo... heel up/ slide /barefooted / covered in molasses/ naked/ drum technique/ Mexican Hat Dance all the way.

[crazyguy832]

Heel up/down/heel-toe.

All with socks.

I can play with shoes, but I feel a lack of control and speed when I do (which is fine when playing at church, but not for most of my playing).

[jiashen]

Quote:
obviously it won't work the same way as moeller with the hands

Yeah... That's because you can't whip your foot.

hahaha

Steve Smith refers to the technique I'm talking about as constant release bass drum technique btw. It's similar to the concept of moeller.

From now on lets call it constant release bass drum technique. I don't think anyone will have a problem with that.

I'll post an good actual description of it when I find one. It's different from heel-toe and slide btw.

How am I being ignorant British Boy? Maybe you should calm yourself down, it's only an internet forum, I'm not here to flame as it pisses people off.

Well on his DVD the constant release looks to me like the heel-toe technique though. And he "counts" toe-heel-toe-heel-toe-heel etc, so it might just be the same thing.

[Double Bass Jim]

Don't forgot to brush your molars

[osiecki]

Mostly heel down, socks.

[isp_of_doom]

the constant release technique Steve Smith explains in his DVD is slightly different to heel toe, go check out the vid of Jojo on www.drummerworld.com and you will be able to see the difference.

as far as i can tell it utilises a sort of toe-heel technique... its a strange variant and i suppose not strictly a different technique, but a combination of mastery of all techniques.

and no moeller does not exist with your feet. not even in the constant release technique....

[dbl_bass_drmr_Jirvy]

Heel up .... with socks...

I used to play with my shoes but now that I use heel-toe.... my shoes just cant let me do that technique properly.... its too big for the pedal... so now Im on socks... and now used to it...

[kevbud187]

I think if you are wear "footware" u can easily exert the force evenly, instead of kind of gripping the pedal with your foot.

+its gross when the shady bassist plays your set with barefeet and he has foot fungus.

[Parradiddle Pete]

Converse all star (stripey ones) Or socks

[CasB]

I play with my shoes on, cause that's how I've always done it and without shoes it feels awkward (sp?). I used to use the sliding technique but now if I have to do doubles, the movement comes all from the foot, or in some way that I drop my foot at the first hit and the second hit is just using my foot at the right time when the beater comes back from the head, without using too much power. But my heel doesn't touch the ground. It's really comfortable for me and feels natural, so I won't switch to heel-toe or the sliding technique.

[isp_of_doom]

CasB I can use a similar technique.... its an interesting technique

[ThugsRook]

i played in socks yesterday ~ now my right foot is black and blue :(

never again :angry:

[firefoxzero]

i played in socks yesterday ~ now my right foot is black and blue :(

never again :angry:

Yeah, the calluses (sp) on my hand are bad enough. It must hurt to put your foot through the same (if not worse) thing. Most people on this forum use heel up barefoot though!

Maybe most people have those grip peddler pads, I imagine that would take a lot of the shock away.

Then again, a few people who say they use barefoot say they don't play in footwear because they can't feel the pedal as much.

I think I'll stick to my Reebok Classics :thumb: more snug than a condom :D

[Ounce]

I chose heel up with shoes. The thing is though I mix it up a lot. Sometimes with no shoes at practice, but never without at least socks, never tried barefoot. Playing a show though it's usually some sort of light sneakers, I usually wear N's so some kind of running N's preferably.

Heel down is great but with a lot of sets it's hard to get that to flow right and if the throne is up high and close it's almost impossible for me. You can get nice ring from the bass drum and control and some speed but certain pedals and bass drum setups make it hard for me. My foot never really bent back very far I think it's heredity. In drumline I would always get pointed out because my toes didn't point up as high as everyone else's when marching >:|

I think at some points I use just about all of those techniques.

[styler]

i chose heel up and heel down with shoes. i dont know why nobody else wears shoes when they drum....how many people go to gigs with no shoes?

[3rdplanet]

I practice with Shoes on and Barefooted, never know when you might need to play and you don't know what footwear will be at hand. (read as:- Sometimes I sit behind the kit with footwear on, sometimes off, just depends on if I happen to have shoes on when I decide to practice.)

I'm much better at with the Slide Technique too but I'm gonna start working on Heel/Toe just so I have those extra tools to play what I want to play.

[ridetheflow]

I can't stand shoes when i'm playing, something to do with the rigidity I think.

[BroDD]

depends on what im playing...
always bafrefoot/socks

Heel Up = fast stuff like... cradle, slipknot and stuff like that

Heel Down = slow stuff like kiss, a bit faster stuff like.. maidens trooper

Heel Toe - stuff like.. where the bass is like the bass in the chorus of maidens out of the silent planet

[crazyguy832]

Heel-toe's impossible with shoes (unless you had a friggin massive pedal...). That's why I don't wear em when playing.

[firefoxzero]

Heel-toe's impossible with shoes (unless you had a friggin massive pedal...). That's why I don't wear em when playing.
I'm not doing too bad at it! Your heel doesn't actually have to touch the footboard to execute the move so you can play on any pedal. I've heard of guys with like size 14 feet doing it with normal pedals.

[LoneStarDrummer]

combination of heel up and down barefoot

[ThugsRook]

Heel-toe's impossible with shoes (unless you had a friggin massive pedal...).
i beg to differ :p