The progression of metal!

[Nostalgia]

Don't worry I'm still doing my series, I have been really busy lately, my sister had a baby :), oh and it was really funny. They had to use this suction cup to get the baby out faster, and when it came out, the baby had a cone head, haha. But I thought this would be a good informative thread. Lately we have had many arguments of the defenition of "Nu-metal" and the what the pro's and con's of it are. I will start on explaning what has happend since the early 80's all the way to 2005. Well I don't want to have this thread become a flame fest so I don't really want to label genres to significant.

The metal that the 80's listened to are very different then what is metal music is now. In the 80's their were bands like poison, guns and roses, motley crue, skid row and WASP. I label this kind of music, such as pop orientaited metal, or "arena rock". The music was filled with some keyboards, clean vocals, and raging guitars. But each band still obtainted a since of pop flavour to them, but still maintaning a since of heavyness. But on the other side of the 80's rainbow their were bands like Slayer, overkill, and testamnet that were stilll 80's music but were more along the lines of thrash metal, and didn't obtain the sence of theme that the popish metal did.

But do to the influx of teenagers, 80's metal (excluding thrash) was killed by the type of music that is grunge. Grunge is much different then what powerish metal was. Nirvana conceived the seed of teenagers music, the main riff in "smells like teen spirit" empired the genre and fueld it for many years. Their were also some follow up bands along with Nirvana. Like Alice and chains. Though they had a tad bit more of a metal edge to them, they were still labled grunge. But along with Kobain's death brought upon more attention to grunge, but also got some more negative then positive. Their have been many accusations that he was untalented, and a mediocre lyricist at best, But you have to remember, Kurt never mentioned his musical talent, as it was not very good, I would much rather label it poor. But It wasn't the skill that was the glue for Nirvana's sucess, it was their ability to cling on to what was popular at that day and age. But grunge must die some time shouldn't it? and it eventually did.

The demise of grunge music didn't really affect the music world very much, it just brought upon another wake for us metal heads to feast upon. Though their was still pop-metal releases in the early 90's heavier music was just up a head.

Black metal Maybe one of the most touchiest genre of all, though this genre of music may be very brutal their still is very much of metaphors behind it. Many black metal bands were called racists, nazis, and satanists/devil worshippers, but this only attracted more attention to the genre it supplied as ammo for them to produce music and have a improvement upon their record sales. Some bands that empired the genre are... Darkthrone, Mayhem, burzum, and emperor (I know their is more) many of you have heard the story of the euronymous and Varg feud, I don't want to get into detail with it so I will post a link to the "supposed" story here (http://www.burzum.com/burzum/biography/)
Most Black metal is filled with anti-christian themes and lyrics, but some are not. Many black metal bands are very interested in paganism, and nature. Witch also inspires a lot of lyrical influences. The lack of recording quality is really what set in Black metal they used the recording quality is an advantage to kind of edge over the evilness.

Death metal this might be the brutalist genre of all, it was filled with better recording quality and musicianship. Alot like powerish metal, death metal was still filled with solos and raging drums. Bands that sort-of pioneered the genre were Nile, morbid angel and cannibal corpse. The brutal vocals were what set apart them from many other bands of this era. For example Nile, Nile is a band with Egyptian influences that colide with brutal and harsh vocal tone, but though they are a very brutal band they still maintain technicality. Bands like morbid angel have their high and lows (speed wise) they can go low and melodic but can also speed up to a brutal sound. Death metal has always been known for it's some what brutal lyrics. Cannibal corpse has led the genre with everything. For example, on the album tomb of the mutilated it shows a large sence of techniqual riffs, and amazing! drumming. For are last genre.

Nu-metal Oh lord now this dreaded genre. This is why I think this thread might just become a flame fest but I'll try. Now this genre is very different from the other ones I have explained, this is what metal has become since the 80's I will list some pro's and con's of the genre.

Pro's

1)It has some fresh riff's and their are many different bands for others likeing
2) They get techniqual and have good range. (some don't)
3)It's refreshing to hear the new musical youth.


Con's

1)Some only manage to pass by with the littlest skill possible.
2) MTV whores some bands to the point where they are no long listenable.
3)Many vocalist are untalented and have NO vocal range.

This is just a short list. But the real question is...Should metal be progressing this way?

IMO it's great to see these guys out their playing, but it's not really my music. Yea I agree some of Nu-metal isn't to good but the few that are okay really stand out, and help make the genre of metal, great!

Thats the progression of metal IMO in a nut shell. Thank you for reading guys. (Vote for me in the 50 posters thread ;)

[StreetlightRock]

Hey nice, just something I thought about - Death (the band) really should be mentioned when talking about the rise of Death Metal. You missed the re-emergence of Prog too. But dude, good work, and cool to hear about the kid. Whats the deal with the Poetry Speaks stuff? That was you right?

[Apocalyptic Raids]

Nice work man. It's nice to see some people still taking the time to do write-ups.

I think you should have included Judas Priest,Black Sabbath and Doom Metal in there. Otherwise nice work :thumb:

[Epicurus]

Theres alot of melodic bands coming out now.

[King_Of_Terrors]

Come on people, this is a big thread that obviously took pretty long to make.

I heard that MTV is playing Nevermore, Bodom, Nile, and other bands now too. I will have to start watching it more.

[TheDMV]

Hey, nice write-up. I'll be honest, I don't listen to much metal, and I had no idea that Black Metal came before Death Metal.

[Nostalgia]

Come on people, this is a big thread that obviously took pretty long to make.

I heard that MTV is playing Nevermore, Bodom, Nile, and other bands now too. I will have to start watching it more.
Heh, thanks man. :)

[King_Of_Terrors]

Hey, nice write-up. I'll be honest, I don't listen to much metal, and I had no idea that Black Metal came before Death Metal.

Black metal goes back really far, the first black metal bands formed in the early to mid 80's. Death metal started earliest in the late 80's early 90's.

[Arucard]

:lol: The baby came out with a cone head.

Oh yeh, and good thread.

:tehshifty:

[Stoic]

I'm sorry but this article is confusing and inaccurate.

[King_Of_Terrors]

I'm sorry but this article is confusing and inaccurate.

I think he should have covered more genres, but it's not too bad is it?

[lionelhutz88]

Pro's

1)It has some fresh riff's and their are many different bands for others likeing



Correct me if I'm wrong, but when has nu-metal ever had "fresh" riffs? I thought that was a complaint about it.

[Daven]

Good work man, I think you should include in the death metal part the first death (genre) releases. And old school death bands. Overall is very good.

[Ace_of_Bass2112]

you did miss alot of parts like thrash or power metal or industrial.


CoB, Nile and the like are only played on the sister stations of Mtv like MTV2 or MTVjam

[King_Of_Terrors]

1)It has some fresh riff's and their are many different bands for others likeing

He means new and catchy riffs that some bands magage to create.

2) They get techniqual and have good range. (some don't)

Some bands like System Of A Down, they have technical sounding riffage and the singer isn't too bad.

3)It's refreshing to hear the new musical youth.

I don't really know what he means.


Con's

1)Some only manage to pass by with the littlest skill possible.

Linkin Park, 3 Days Grace, Slipknot, ect.

2) MTV whores some bands to the point where they are no long listenable.

Slipknot, Disturbed, ect.


3)Many vocalist are untalented and have NO vocal range.

Guy from Slipknot, Linkin Park, 3 Days Grace,

[Stoic]

I think he should have covered more genres, but it's not too bad is it?

uhh...not "only" this actually

First of all, there's no doubt that the "metalness" of 80s pop metal, grunge and nu metal is under question. Even if you do think that they're somehow connected with the metal genre you have to admit that they've always been kind of abstracted from the rest of the metal scene

it just brought upon another wake for us metal heads to feast upon. Though their was still pop-metal releases in the early 90's heavier music was just up a head.

This guys makes it look like death and black were evolved/became popular thanks to the grunge demise(!)

The majority of the actual metal scene has been evolving independently in the underground without being affected by the mainstream trends. Think of all the classic albums released when grunge was the big thing or when the nu metal madness has just begun!

Uhh...In fact there are tons of things to be said about the progress of metal. It's too complicated to be covered in such a short article and it certainly needs wider knowledge.

[Spiritofmosa]

how about the rise of metalcore/emocore

[Kyle]

Nice writeup :thumb:

Oh and thanks for the details of your sisters birth....:lol:.

[Freezing Moon]

but this only attracted more attention to the genre it supplied as ammo for them to produce music and have a improvement upon their record sales.
:lol:

Mayhem, Darkthrone, Emperor trying to sell a lot of records?

Besides this, the overall point is confusing, and I'm not seeing how you get from Black to Death to Nu Metal. :confused:

[Vortigon]

Sorry but I agree with Stoic, it is confusing and inaccurate.

[RCA]

Overkill, Slayer, and Testament ARE thrash, not "80s metal more along the lines of thrash". Also, thrash did die with the onset of the grunge scene. That's why nothing new has been done with the genre in 20 years.

Since when are Cannibal Corpse and Nile pioneers of death metal? I can name about 10 bands off of the top of my head that were playing death metal (and better) before they were.

Death metal in it's purest form was around before black metal was.

Nu-metal is not metal at all.

Looks like somebody needs to do their homework.

[Nostalgia]

Sorry, I wasn't really focusing on the genre part though I was just trying to give a breif description of each genre so I could compare how it was in the earlier days compared to it now.

The only reason I mad this thread was to aploigise for not doing my series in a while. The main discussion I wanted this to have is do you think metal progressed in a negative way.

[Nostalgia]

Overkill, Slayer, and Testament ARE thrash, not "80s metal more along the lines of thrash". Also, thrash did die with the onset of the grunge scene. That's why nothing new has been done with the genre in 20 years.

Since when are Cannibal Corpse and Nile pioneers of death metal? I can name about 10 bands off of the top of my head that were playing death metal (and better) before they were.

Death metal in it's purest form was around before black metal was.

Nu-metal is not metal at all.

Looks like somebody needs to do their homework.

I take that as in insult. You can state your point but you do not have to say that, if I take the time to do these I think I should still have some importance. But for me to take the time and you STILL make the comment actually hurts my feelings. All I wanted to do is show a progression and for me to even do this you still should give me some credit, but that comment was rude.

[firefoxzero]

I've only been a metalhead for about five years so I don't really know what's going on in the eighties but I'll try and list as many genres as possible which have been out or I've heard of with a brief description and also some examples.

If you add metal to the end of these words you'll get a subgenre (it's a bit weird if you end it with core though).

You can also mix these genres up so you could say Symphony X's The Odyssey would be Progressive, Symphonic Power Metal.

Btw, if something's not totally accurate don't go mad at me.

Here's the genres I can think of:

Hair - 80's perm stuff (Bon Jovi, Europe)

Black - dark, satanic metal (Emperor, Mayhem, Dimmu Borgir)

Death - aggressive, fast brutal stuff (Morbid Angel, Deicide, Slayer)

Doom - can't name any ? Black Sabbath I think

Thrash - kind of mix of mainly heavy rock and punk I think. (Early Metallica)

Speed - can't name any

Power - Symphony X and guy out of Nightwish have the kind of vocals which make power metal.

Rap - erm.. Limp Bizkit

Industrial - sounds er...industrial (Rammstein, Rob Zombie, Static X)

Math - odd time signatures in the music (Mudvayne)

Nu - Most controversial genre, the bands only have themselves to blame, probably in the way they marketed themselves or the time they came out. (Slipknot, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park)

Progressive - my favourite type. Known for time sigs, endless technical soloing, broad dynamics and a broader style of music used. (Dream Theater, Symphony X, Rush)

Symphonic - Any band who uses a orchestra (or maybe keyboard) and creates symphonies I think (Nightwish, Dimmu Borgir, Symphony X - obviously)

Melodic Death - Like death metal but more melodic obviously. Quite a few of these bands use keyboardists (Children of Bodom, Arch Enemy)

Jazzcore - I think a band called Candiria might be classed as it.

Hardcore - Hatebreed, etc lots of monkey dancers or whatever go to these gigs.

Metalcore - not sure?

Emocore (?) - the root of all evil? :D

Goth (dunno if there is such a thing)

Heavy - what the hell is heavy metal? Someone educate me. It's a tough one. I'd say it's a comic magazine haha. That or old heavy rock/metal - Alice Cooper, Guns N' Roses.

[Killtacular]

my sister had a baby :), oh and it was really funny. They had to use this suction cup to get the baby out faster
What kind of sick family are you a part of?


Oh, nice post/thread/write-up thing, and all.

[Nostalgia]

Nah, it's normal man the head goes down after the first couple days so it's fine now. But it was weird seeing it.

[Killtacular]

Where I come from we don't suck babies out of ladies with a hose.

Now, making out with your cousin, that's perfectly acceptable.

[Freezing Moon]

I take that as in insult. You can state your point but you do not have to say that, if I take the time to do these I think I should still have some importance. But for me to take the time and you STILL make the comment actually hurts my feelings. All I wanted to do is show a progression and for me to even do this you still should give me some credit, but that comment was rude.
There is no need to take offence to it.

The problem is, he's right. If you're going to spend the time writing up a big long article, make sure you have all of your facts straight before you do it.

I'm not trying to be rude, I give you credit for taking the time to do this, just make sure you have all of your facts straight first.

[Stoic]

I take that as in insult. You can state your point but you do not have to say that, if I take the time to do these I think I should still have some importance. But for me to take the time and you STILL make the comment actually hurts my feelings. All I wanted to do is show a progression and for me to even do this you still should give me some credit, but that comment was rude.

What he said is really not too insulting and in the end of day you should have expected this kind of reaction when you posted an inadequate article on a matter that many people have deep knowledge.

And to give this post a meaning and hopefully change the direction of the discussion:

Should metal be progressing this way?

I have to point out that nu metal - if you really think it's metal - is only one of the newer approaches. nu metal = NOT new metal

[RCA]

I take that as in insult. You can state your point but you do not have to say that, if I take the time to do these I think I should still have some importance. But for me to take the time and you STILL make the comment actually hurts my feelings. All I wanted to do is show a progression and for me to even do this you still should give me some credit, but that comment was rude.

Ah, sorry, the reason behind this thread was unclear at first. I apologize. :)

But in the future, make sure you know enough about the genres in question before you talk about them.

[Nostalgia]

It's ok dude, yea I know I need helm genre wise, that's why I posted I was trying to be almost unclear because I didn't want a flame war on who's this genre and who isn't, if I make another one I will be sure to research more.

Hell, I still got poetry speaks, ha.

[Doctor Night]

I'm sure Metal would still be alive in the mainstream if Dimebag hadn't died, Pantera had ended and Metallica stopped producing Hard Rock albums.

[RCA]

I'm sure Metal would still be alive in the mainstream if Dimebag hadn't died, Pantera had ended and Metallica stopped producing Hard Rock albums.

Metal belongs in the underground.

Dimebag's death didn't end metal, and metal has never ended.

Metallica does not exist anymore.

[Doctor Night]

Metal belongs in the underground.

Dimebag's death didn't end metal, and metal has never ended.

Metallica does not exist anymore.
Dimebags death ended Metal in the mainstream,for the time being anyway, like I said. And Metallica hasn't ended, they're recording a new album soon.

[Freezing Moon]

Dimebags death ended Metal in the mainstream,for the time being anyway, like I said. And Metallica hasn't ended, they're recording a new album soon.
Metal should not be in the mainstream, and Metallica may has well have broken up after Master of Puppets.

[GenuineImitation]

Dimebags death ended Metal in the mainstream,for the time being anyway, like I said. And Metallica hasn't ended, they're recording a new album soon.


Not really. Just watch MTV2. Headbangers ball is back on tv and they are starting to play more metal. That means less hardcore/metalcore and more Opeth and Nevermore.

I think more people are getting into rock and metal now... At least in my area.

[RCA]

Dimebags death ended Metal in the mainstream,for the time being anyway, like I said. And Metallica hasn't ended, they're recording a new album soon.

Metal doesn't belong in the mainstream, and the only thing Dime's death did was bring about a new craze for guitar heroes (which isn't a bad thing).

Metallica doesn't exist.

[Doctor Night]

Not really. Just watch MTV2. Headbangers ball is back on tv and they are starting to play more metal. That means less hardcore/metalcore and more Opeth and Nevermore.

I think more people are getting into rock and metal now... At least in my area.
I havent watched music Channels for ages. Well, I guess I'm wrong.

[GenuineImitation]

I havent watched music Channels for ages. Well, I guess I'm wrong.


I don't reall watch it that much either. However, the last few episodes, I have seen less metalcore and more metal. The metacore they do play, isn't as bad as it used to be. I don't know if it was a fluke though.

[vintage]

childish.. to flame bands that became commercial

[Stoic]

childish.. to flame bands that became commercial

Actually, these people dont flame all commercial/mainstream bands, just the ones who changed their sound in order to become commercial.

[GenuineImitation]

childish.. to flame bands that became commercial


Are you talking to me? I don't think I flammed any band.

[Nostalgia]

childish.. to flame bands that became commercial
I don't really have a problem with commerical band that started out that way. it's just their are some bands who changed that way to get more fortune and fame.

[youll_remember_me]

its seems like this guy was merely getting his opinion accross not writing a documenary. all this criticism seems like a waste of pixels. instead of saying someone is wrong, why dont you just give your input and leave it at that. you do have the power to. take me for example

[Bazarov]

Dear God, I remember this thread.

[gillygan]

its seems like this guy was merely getting his opinion accross not writing a documenary. all this criticism seems like a waste of pixels. instead of saying someone is wrong, why dont you just give your input and leave it at that. you do have the power to. take me for example

This thread died 4 months ago.