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View Full Version : Cool ideas for fills not involving 2 or more toms...


FockerTheLopper
10-30-2005, 07:49 AM
Since switching my smaller kit it has really opened up new things for my playing. This thread could be like a handbook of what you can do to make you fills intresting without using alot of peices, I'll start by posting the basics and a little trick I like to use.
1. Dynamics- The lifeblood of drumming. A good song takes you through mountains and valleys of dynamics.
2. Accents- Again very important, the hits you want to stick out. Imagine hearing a fill on the snare with straight 16ths 15 times... Don't worry your not the only one who thinks he'd shoot himself. Now what if he were to puts accents on some notes or on the upbeats.
3. Syncopation- Accenting or making the upbeats(+) stick out, this was first used in jazz and if im not mistaken the drums didn't really do this alot until we found out how cool it sounded, it kinda gives an off feel if you do this right.
4. Rudiments- Should be number one but forgot to put it there, this is the accually lifeblood because its the most rudimental things you can do, even by playing one and applying all the 3 things on top the fills will be more intresting as opposed to singles throughout(I.E. Mike Portnoy= Singles, Neil Peart= Singles and more)
5. Triplets/Sextuplets- Well not really a trick but if you do off accenting it sounds really cool and its polyrythmic(every 2 or 4 or anything you really want)
6. Open/closed flams- This is one I came up with, lets say your going at a pretty slow speed and you can do flam accents or swiss army triplets no probelm, you do your groove your playing and you have 2 beats to fill, you do the first flam really tight and closed then you finish the triplet, then when you go back to the flam you do it really open, so that it sounds like a broken double stroke roll, then you finish off your triplet. Its also good for grooving on the hi hat, lets say you do a flam on it(instead of a ghosted snare, same effect if the flam is closed) then you do an open one to give it an off feel.
7. Double ghost note- This is for grooving. Lets say your playing a beat and your keeping time on the hats, you play it then flam the hihats and bring your left hand directly down and hit the snare softly. So its eights on the right hand, then broken double stroke 16th with the left that goes from hihats(flam) to snare(ghost) and it gives a double ghost feel especially if your snare doesn't bite(like mine :upset: )

MapleX
10-30-2005, 07:59 AM
With fills like that its important not to go too high too fast in the sense of ur ability. I'd keep it simple and short, but not too commonly heard. Abe Cunningham is a gd example at these kind of fills, he tends to just hit a tom once in a simple fill but it sounds so good. out of ur list i would emphasise accents, they outline the entire fill. But yeah some great ideas for fills there.

Byron
10-30-2005, 09:07 AM
I only have 2 toms and I wouldn't want more, I practiced a lot of jazz fills with triplets with a lot of crossing hands and some very syncopated stuff, when I find myself in front of a bigger kit, I look at how I could incorporate all the toms and my creativity is somewhat lost.
I highly prefer fewer toms to a ton although it can sometimes be fun to play with all the toms

TTTSNB
10-30-2005, 10:14 AM
Those sound like some good ideas, I try to incorporate the same elements. Also, trying using the bass drum and hihat foot in ways other then just quarters and eighths.

poppinfresh
10-30-2005, 10:33 AM
^^^
yes thats what i was going to say.

i like to use ghosts on the snare a lot too in ebtween fills, it makes it sound really interesting.

I also like doing this thing where im not sure what is called but you open th highat and hit it and close it really quickly so it kind of sounds like a crash.

SadStairway
10-30-2005, 12:04 PM
Good thread idea. Heres my tips:

1) Practice incorporating the bass drum in figures. Put the bass drum in between the hands in triplets or sixteenth notes. This can also be done with the left foot on hi-hat or bass drum

2) Divide flams between two drums. Do the grace note on the high tom and the other note on the snare.

3) Use space to your advantage. Leaving breaks in your fill could add tension instead of just filling the space with as many notes as you can.

TTTSNB
10-30-2005, 12:19 PM
^^^
yes thats what i was going to say.

i like to use ghosts on the snare a lot too in ebtween fills, it makes it sound really interesting.

I also like doing this thing where im not sure what is called but you open th highat and hit it and close it really quickly so it kind of sounds like a crash.
Hihat choke?

FockerTheLopper
10-30-2005, 03:08 PM
I also like doing this thing where im not sure what is called but you open th highat and hit it and close it really quickly so it kind of sounds like a crash.
Your talking about when you hit it open then right after you close it?(Example is in Bill Bruford's roundabout, the first note he plays)

FockerTheLopper
10-30-2005, 03:11 PM
Those sound like some good ideas, I try to incorporate the same elements. Also, trying using the bass drum and hihat foot in ways other then just quarters and eighths.
Yeah I'm trying to use the latin(o xoo xoo xoo xo) but thats as far as I can go, really hard stuff cordiantion wise especially now that my feet got weak(my throne moved somehow or something but I can't get 32nds every time with heel toe)

Seafroggys
10-30-2005, 06:17 PM
Fills with just one tom?

Try this:

SNR: -xx-xx-xx-xx-x-x
TOM: x--x--x--x--x-x-

Motleyguy
10-30-2005, 06:54 PM
6. Open/closed flams- This is one I came up with, lets say your going at a pretty slow speed and you can do flam accents or swiss army triplets no probelm, you do your groove your playing and you have 2 beats to fill, you do the first flam really tight and closed then you finish the triplet, then when you go back to the flam you do it really open, so that it sounds like a broken double stroke roll, then you finish off your triplet. Its also good for grooving on the hi hat, lets say you do a flam on it(instead of a ghosted snare, same effect if the flam is closed) then you do an open one to give it an off feel.


If you do tight, closed flams purposely there is something wrong with you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but flams are supposed to be open, and when they are tight and closed, they sound like ***.

poppinfresh
10-30-2005, 07:10 PM
Hihat choke?
yeah that sounds right

Det_Nosnip
10-30-2005, 07:20 PM
I'm still at a loss as to why you can't just as easily incorporate any of these ideas onto a large drumkit.

1. Dynamics- The lifeblood of drumming. A good song takes you through mountains and valleys of dynamics.
I totally agree....but this is crucial to ANY kind of playing, and is just as important on a big kit as a small kit.


2. Accents- Again very important, the hits you want to stick out. Imagine hearing a fill on the snare with straight 16ths 15 times... Don't worry your not the only one who thinks he'd shoot himself. Now what if he were to puts accents on some notes or on the upbeats.
Those straight 16ths can be surprisingly effective, accent or not. Don't accent things just for the hell of it. ;)

3. Syncopation- Accenting or making the upbeats(+) stick out, this was first used in jazz Are you ****ting me? Syncopation is as old as music...

and if im not mistaken the drums didn't really do this alot until we found out how cool it sounded, it kinda gives an off feel if you do this right. You are mistaken.

4. Rudiments- Should be number one but forgot to put it there, this is the accually lifeblood because its the most rudimental things you can do, even by playing one and applying all the 3 things on top the fills will be more intresting as opposed to singles throughout(I.E. Mike Portnoy= Singles, Neil Peart= Singles and more)
Practicing rudiments is the most rudimental thing you can do? Go figure. :lol:

5. Triplets/Sextuplets- Well not really a trick but if you do off accenting it sounds really cool and its polyrythmic(every 2 or 4 or anything you really want)
Huh?


6. Open/closed flams- This is one I came up with, lets say your going at a pretty slow speed and you can do flam accents or swiss army triplets no probelm, you do your groove your playing and you have 2 beats to fill, you do the first flam really tight and closed then you finish the triplet, then when you go back to the flam you do it really open, so that it sounds like a broken double stroke roll, then you finish off your triplet. Its also good for grooving on the hi hat, lets say you do a flam on it(instead of a ghosted snare, same effect if the flam is closed) then you do an open one to give it an off feel.
I think I actually know what you're talking about.


7. Double ghost note- This is for grooving. Lets say your playing a beat and your keeping time on the hats, you play it then flam the hihats and bring your left hand directly down and hit the snare softly. So its eights on the right hand, then broken double stroke 16th with the left that goes from hihats(flam) to snare(ghost) and it gives a double ghost feel especially if your snare doesn't bite(like mine :upset: )

Right.

Happy_Squirrel
10-30-2005, 07:58 PM
Seafroggys said:
Try this:

SNR: -xx-xx-xx-xx-x-x
TOM: x--x--x--x--x-x-^this kind of thing works great with the bass drum (in place of the tom) as well.

A favorite of mine:

TOM: -----oo-----------
SNR: oo-------oo------
FLR: -------------oo--
BSS: ---oo--oo--oo--oo

FockerTheLopper
10-30-2005, 09:15 PM
I'm still at a loss as to why you can't just as easily incorporate any of these ideas onto a large drumkit.

I totally agree....but this is crucial to ANY kind of playing, and is just as important on a big kit as a small kit.

Those straight 16ths can be surprisingly effective, accent or not. Don't accent things just for the hell of it. ;)
Are you ****ting me? Syncopation is as old as music...
You are mistaken.
Practicing rudiments is the most rudimental thing you can do? Go figure. :lol:
Huh?

I think I actually know what you're talking about.



Right.
I never said you can't, its even better if you have a big kit, but its alot harder to make intresting fills with a small kit so these things will add flavor even if you don't have alot. As for the syncopation thing I was rereading it, and yeah I guess I didn't really think about it because classic music and new orleans used it before jazz. If you use a big kit and use these things then even non drummers will like hearing the solos.(Yeah... I barely believe too)

FockerTheLopper
10-30-2005, 09:20 PM
If you do tight, closed flams purposely there is something wrong with you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but flams are supposed to be open, and when they are tight and closed, they sound like ***.
You know how you play a flam tap at 200 bpm? You know how you play it at 40 bpm? The flam strokes are different. Naturally the 200 one is more closed because you have less space. The 40 bpm is more open and since you have alot of space you can make it almost like 16th notes and it sounds amazing(sounds like you tripped over something but you wanted too!) So lets say your playing 80 bpms and you do your first flam at 80, second flam you do at 160, and last flam you do at 40(the slow one would be the trip effect) it will change up and sound cool... I forgot an element which is repition, because your trying to tell a story or a change with a fill, so lets say you have something before a chorus that you like don't change it in my bands song I did a fill, umm Bom Pret toc u doog(bsTTF, flam on snare rhythm is 1 + 2 trip let) and I don't change it but I only use it 2 times although we go to the chorus 4 times, so its like a return home or a refrence for the people because it sounds good and they like to hear it

Motleyguy
10-31-2005, 12:14 AM
You know how you play a flam tap at 200 bpm? You know how you play it at 40 bpm? The flam strokes are different. Naturally the 200 one is more closed because you have less space. The 40 bpm is more open and since you have alot of space you can make it almost like 16th notes and it sounds amazing(sounds like you tripped over something but you wanted too!) So lets say your playing 80 bpms and you do your first flam at 80, second flam you do at 160, and last flam you do at 40(the slow one would be the trip effect) it will change up and sound cool... I forgot an element which is repition, because your trying to tell a story or a change with a fill, so lets say you have something before a chorus that you like don't change it in my bands song I did a fill, umm Bom Pret toc u doog(bsTTF, flam on snare rhythm is 1 + 2 trip let) and I don't change it but I only use it 2 times although we go to the chorus 4 times, so its like a return home or a refrence for the people because it sounds good and they like to hear it

ah makes sense. See I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about intentionally playing an assy sounding closed flam, and thought you were a moron:p

Now it makes sense, you're talking about flams in reference to your tempo. Yeah, that does sound cool when you do that, I've just never thought of them as more closed than flams played at a slower tempo.

tapioca
10-31-2005, 01:15 PM
well, flams fall into Rudiments and Accents. there are also a few variations on how to do Accents, the most common ones probably are: using Flams, cymbals/toms/bass/snare/effect cymbals/accesories on top of the accented note, e.g. Snare/Bass Crash/Open Hi-Hat/Cowbell/..., Snare Bass, Bass Tom,... and doubling the note value of the unaccented notes, e.g. any double stroke roll (-> again a simple rudiment).