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Popup-Box
10-29-2005, 02:09 PM
I've decided it is finally time for learning more about the art of jazz improvising. Hence, I will start by learning the Bebop scale.

Which chord progressions should a Bebop beginner use in order to get the most out of the scale?

I understand that as the characteristic note of the major Bebop scale is the b6, one should emphasize chords where this note is present. However, I would like concrete ideas from people who's been using the scale and its related chords for a while, just to get an impression from someone with experience.

I've also read quite a lot about the famous ii-V7-I progression which is common for jazz musicians, and I understand the theory, but I'm not sure how to incorporate it in practice - I'm most uncertain about the rhythm, actually, how many bars to play each chord. I very seldom start chord progressions on a chord other than the root.

Well, enough about that. Let's hope someone has got a few words to write about the Bebop scale. In the meantime I'll browse through a lesson about the scale, which I just found.

Swede in L.A
10-29-2005, 05:52 PM
I've played jazz, for about 15 years, and I've never heard of the bebop scale? Granted I don't browse the internet that much for "strange scales"... What is this so called be-bop scale, does it have another name?

Popup-Box
10-29-2005, 05:59 PM
Probably confusion around the name.

Major Bebop scale goes: 1 2 3 4 5 b6 6 7 as corresponding to a standard major scale.

In C:
C D E F G Ab A B

The b6 is the characteristic note. A chromatic passing tone. I've just come to the understanding that when creating chord progressions for a Bebop solo, you don't have to focus too much on inluding chords in which the b6 note is present. It's basically used as a passing tone anyway, you could just 'pretend' you're creating any other regular major sounding chord progression.

Any inputs?

Krabsworth
10-29-2005, 06:47 PM
Sounds like the "Blues scale", you'll never use it.

Samuel
10-29-2005, 07:01 PM
Sounds like the "Blues scale", you'll never use it.
No, you'll use it. You just won't have to think about using it. Those are notes that you'd use as passing tones and approach notes anyway, so why complicate it by thinking in terms of scales?

Krabsworth
10-29-2005, 07:09 PM
No, you'll use it. You just won't have to think about using it. Those are notes that you'd use as passing tones and approach notes anyway, so why complicate it by thinking in terms of scales?

My point.

Popup-Box
10-29-2005, 08:04 PM
OK - I think I see where you're coming from. Thank you for the replies. I'll experiment a bit and return with more questions if I face trouble.

something vague
10-29-2005, 08:08 PM
I think I'm the only person I know that doesn't think about specific scales when soloing.

Krabsworth
10-29-2005, 08:18 PM
I think I'm the only person I know that doesn't think about specific scales when soloing.

I don't. What do you do though?

something vague
10-29-2005, 08:25 PM
I can pretty much just pick out melodies by look at certain positions on the fretboard, so usually I just go with the flow.

Ned
10-30-2005, 01:19 AM
As far as I've been able to determine, the two "bebop scales" derive from David Baker's instructional material, and, yes, as implemented, these are not really scales, that is to say, harmonic entities, but merely examples of chromatic embellishment typical of bebop--and many more such examples are possible. As it happens, however, (not as implemented) one of Baker's so-called "bebop scales" is really a Pythagorean octatonic and the other a demi-diminished, both of which requiring a tonal center different from those posited by Baker. In other words, these two scales comprise the same pitches as Baker's "bebop scales", but the resemblance is fortuitous. To put it more crudely, there isn't such a thing as a "bebop" scale.

Popup-Box
10-30-2005, 08:36 AM
I might understand what you're saying Ned. I've just read more about the scale. It seems like you have to re-arrange the scale as the chords change.

Let's say there is such a thing as the Bebop scale. When playing over the C chord, you use C Major Bebop. Then there's the G chord; you use the G Major Bebop (or maybe G Dominant Bebop), then the F chord: F Major Bebop, etc.

Passing tones to fit the given chord.

Samuel
10-30-2005, 09:07 AM
Passing tones to fit the given chord.
Basically. The idea is that the passing tone lines up the chord tones so that they all fall on a downbeat, when played starting from a chord tone in eigth notes.

Ned
10-31-2005, 01:41 PM
I might understand what you're saying Ned. I've just read more about the scale. It seems like you have to re-arrange the scale as the chords change.

Let's say there is such a thing as the Bebop scale. When playing over the C chord, you use C Major Bebop. Then there's the G chord; you use the G Major Bebop (or maybe G Dominant Bebop), then the F chord: F Major Bebop, etc.

Passing tones to fit the given chord.

No, let's not say there's such a thing as a "bebop scale". Let's say all you have to do is know what key you're in, all the major and minor scales, and what chords are native to each key (because you may encounter chromatic chords), and that this knowledge has to be second nature to you. Then add chromatic passing tones, neighbor tones, appogiaturas, suspensions, retardations, cambiatas, and escape tones at will, depending on what seems appropriate at the time in context. Mozart used the "bebop" scale, this set of pitches, that is, as much as Charlie Parker, for crying out loud.

HeatherHaze
11-01-2005, 01:31 PM
Why make music so darned complicated, anyway? There are only 12 notes, for heaven's sake! ;)

The jazz metal flum
11-01-2005, 01:42 PM
When improvising I just profer to use the pentatonic scales with cromatic notes and major scales

AmbientMood
11-01-2005, 02:33 PM
The be-bop is just the mixolydian with one extra chromatic note when you descend.