Heel Down v. Heel Up

[DrumNUt]

Can people give the benefits of each.

I think heel down gives you more control while heel up gives you more power.

[Seafroggys]

Not really advanced.

But to promote discussion, heel up gives you more power and speed, heel down gives you more precision and control.

[beaker_747]

Loud, LOUDER.

[dumbassdrummer]

Heel up is generally lounder, but if you work your heel down you can get basically the same volume level, certainly as loud as you would need it to be.

[Josiah]

You can't get heel down to be as loud as heel up. That's just absurd.

With the way western music has developed the use/need for heel down playing is pretty much gone. The demands placed on modern drummers requires technique(s) beyond the cappabilities of heel down.

Though I believe everyone should learn several bass drum techniques and get to a point where it becomes unconsicous as to what kind of movement your foot uses to produce a given passage of notes.

[Drumass]

heel down is used in jazz..

[TTTSNB]

heel down is used in jazz..
Yeah, alot of jazz players play that way, but not necessarily. One can play dynamically heel up.

[infeef]

heel up is pretty much the way to go these days.

[Brokensticks]

I only play heel up ;)

[MXicanDrummer]

1. Save heel up for accents, I hate people who play bass soley heel up. You'l tire yourself out and have less chance for accenting of variety of sound.
2. Get the hell out of the advanced forums.

[Bone]

1. Save heel up for accents, I hate people who play bass soley heel up. You'l tire yourself out and have less chance for accenting of variety of sound.


Hmm sounds like a lotta BS to me. You do realize almost every pro level player uses heel up right? Not to mention EVERY drummer who's known for his chops.


Why don't you stick with what Josiah said, that's a great view point - Learn em all. Let your body decide.


You've obviouslly already formed an emotional basis on technique. Horrible and wrong by all accounts. Technique is not about emotion, it's about getting the job done in the best way possible. When it comes to modern drumset playing in contemperary musical situations, heel up technique is by far the most accepted and used method of playing.

[dpakman91]

i started playing heel down my first 4 months, and have messed around with heel up the past few days...my teacher told me the proper way to play it, but i can't seem to get it to be:

1) doubles at any significant speed like i can do with heel down
2) controlled...often i will play to beats when i try to play one, because the beater bounces back...

any suggestions?

[Bone]

They aren't the same, so don't treat or expect them to be the same.

[xX_selkiesteo_Xx]

i have to have the seat at farther away from the drums to do heel down, so i dont really practice it mush, and i cant do both when i have to be farther away for one... but ill prolly practice it soon so i can be better than thou art

[beaker_747]

but ill prolly practice it soon so i can be better than thou art
Jesus...

Stop being so modest.

Way to crab my avatar:).

[Dob Dob]

Anyone else use both? I just swap between them during songs depending on what the bass pattern is. If its relaxed then faster then i'll just change from hell down to up midway through.

[The Chemist]

1. Save heel up for accents, I hate people who play bass soley heel up. You'l tire yourself out and have less chance for accenting of variety of sound.
2. Get the hell out of the advanced forums.
answer 2)take your own medicine and get out

1)not really. i played an hour long show tottaly heel up. and i lasted longer than the other drummers who played for 1/2 hour heel down. when you play heel down, you use your shins more, and can cause a lot of pain if you don't work on teqnique, nad with heel up you use your hips, knees and ankles, therefor spreding the exertion on your body to more muscle groups. i personnaly roll my foot so it works both the shin muscles and your larger muscles on the back of your legs

[DrumNUt]

Thomas Lang's Creative Control DVD is really good for building the feet.

Thomas plays accents with heels up and non-accents, heel down.

He does like 7's with his feet.

Does anyone know if he took private lessons in the last 5 years?

[Bone]

Does anyone know if he took private lessons in the last 5 years?


Yes...

[Det_Nosnip]

I personally use both techniques. I started on heel down, so I still feel pretty comfortable with it, and it works for me in low dynamic settings. It's alot easier to, for example, feather the bass drum, when you're not putting the entire force of your leg into the blow.

[MNdrummer21]

I find it impossible to be comfortable playing heel up. I think heel down gives you more control and allows you to use the quicker muscles in your calfs and ankles. I also think the sound produced by heel down is much more useful than the short, staccato sound of heel up.

[Bone]

I find it impossible to be comfortable playing heel up.


That would most likely be from a balance issue. I find most students not willing to give up heel down is because they are using that foot planted on teh ground for balance.

You should be able to play hell up, down, slide, heel-toe, etc without a problem. What you do with each, wich you prefer.. that's after the fact of learning how to use a bass drum pedal.

[Obelisk]

You can play just as softly heel up if you are balenced well, IMO that's the key.

[SalientArbiter]

You can't get heel down to be as loud as heel up. That's just absurd.

With the way western music has developed the use/need for heel down playing is pretty much gone. The demands placed on modern drummers requires technique(s) beyond the cappabilities of heel down.

Though I believe everyone should learn several bass drum techniques and get to a point where it becomes unconsicous as to what kind of movement your foot uses to produce a given passage of notes.

When you're playing jazz or latin or other styles that at an advanced stage require independance of both feet, it is preferable to have your right foot heel down to maintain good balance and posture.

[EdBanger]

I switch around to get the best of both worlds.
I can play faster with my heel-down but heel-up feels more comfortable for me.
Depends on whats best for you really.

[Bone]

When you're playing jazz or latin or other styles that at an advanced stage require independance of both feet, it is preferable to have your right foot heel down to maintain good balance and posture.


No. Completelly wrong.


When you're playing complex material it is even more important to maintain a solid balance of the body while playing.


If you have to have your feet on the ground, then it's not exactly balancing is it?

And what happens when you start using multiple pedals with your feet? Ooppps.. there goes that idea.

[blujelly]

I play heel up. But I can play heel down, but I prefer heel up

[dj_ando]

When you're playing jazz or latin or other styles that at an advanced stage require independance of both feet, it is preferable to have your right foot heel down to maintain good balance and posture.

even at an advanced stage, it's still an issue of personal preference and comfort. playing jazz i play left foot heel up, right foot heel down, but i switch it around a bit sometimes depending on what's being played.

[DoubleBassAssault]

Hmm sounds like a lotta BS to me. You do realize almost every pro level player uses heel up right? Not to mention EVERY drummer who's known for his chops.


Why don't you stick with what Josiah said, that's a great view point - Learn em all. Let your body decide.


You've obviouslly already formed an emotional basis on technique. Horrible and wrong by all accounts. Technique is not about emotion, it's about getting the job done in the best way possible. When it comes to modern drumset playing in contemperary musical situations, heel up technique is by far the most accepted and used method of playing.


Iwouldntsay that every pro level drummer uses heel up I mean it depends on what kind of beat you want to play, I mean look at Neil Peart, greatest drummer in the world i know he doesnt always use heel up

Heel up is for good speed and loudness ( i use this for double bass more often then not) Heel down is for consistancy

[Drum Phil]

Personally i find i can get more speed and less cramp with heel down. Always a bonus to get less cramp

[GooseFilms.net]

I'm a big heel-down person. I play anything slow heel-up, but for any fast bass drum patterns, and for any double bass, I'm heel-down, which is most of the time. For fast single-pedal patterns, I'm all about heel-toe, which I essentially stay heel-down for, and for double bass it sounds a lot better to have the control of heel-down to make those strokes sound really even, even if it might be a little slower and less powerful than heel-up. Plus, lately I've been incorporating tons of heel-toe into my double bass. Heel-down makes it feel so easy and sound so smooth.
I've tried flatfoot a few times, but its just too weird for me.

[DoubleBassAssault]

Personally i find i can get more speed and less cramp with heel down. Always a bonus to get less cramp


I think you might be one of the few who get more speed with heel down,I mean thats cool if you do but i find it hard to believe

[Win A Rabbit]

i play flat-footed, so heel up for me. i've been working on my heel down, but my body's just not made for heel down. i do, however, usually use heel-down for my hi-hat pedal, just out of habit. mostly because it's easier for smaller motions with heel down.

[MNdrummer21]

I think it easier to go fast with heel down as well. The strokes and the way the beater rebounds are much smoother and easier.

[Phantom Lord]

I played heel down for about three years, then switched to heel up, which is hard to get used to, but is far better than heel-down, as it allows you to play for longer with less burn and you can still play softly or loudly. Athough you need to get your foot about 1/2 an icnh above the footboard so you can make use of both ankles and thighs.
Anyway, heel down isolates the shin muscles and you gat cramp far quicker, and you have to move your foot further.

[XAQ]

I thought flat footed WAS heel-down?

[White]

Heel Down For me Is to un-comphortable I paly heelp up, its more power and gives the bass a good "Punch" sound, I love it lol

[jelic173]

There shouldnt even be a thread on this, HEEL UP NO QUESTION. Better control, better speed, better power, better feel. Heel Up has got it all.

[Bone]

One should learn to be proficient with all the major techniques, then decide after that point wich they prefer. Often one will find it is simply the combination of techniques that vary by application and performance requirements wich dictate how the foot is manipulated to produce particular passages of notes.

[MVSteve]

Either way, you should learn both.

Heel Up is probably best suited for heavy rock and what not. There's no reason to play with it otherwise.
The reason that I say that is because of heel down. It is much more stable. You can have way more control, and for breaks in a beat or even something like funk, you aren't going to be able to switch from double to single fast enough in heel up or consistent enough to make it work correctly.

I use both, or I just heel down on my right foot, and a combo of heel-toe on my left so I can angle it slightly and have control of my hi-hat and bass pedal.

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

yes i use both they are just as good as each other same as trad grip and match grip they both have different advantages

[Win A Rabbit]

I thought flat footed WAS heel-down?
i've always associated it as heel off the pedal, but not necessarily UP. the foot remains fairly flat (horizontal). there's a difference between having your foot flat and having your heel UP.

maybe that's just my way of naming it, since i never really learned from an instructor.

[XAQ]

Well ndugu (ha) says there's heel up, which is heel off the pedal, and flat foot, which is the same as heel down, or "down on the pedal". I think whenever the heel is not on the pedal it is heel up (not including hybrids like heel-toe)

[Bone]

i've always associated it as heel off the pedal, but not necessarily UP. the foot remains fairly flat (horizontal). there's a difference between having your foot flat and having your heel UP.

maybe that's just my way of naming it, since i never really learned from an instructor.


Myself as well. That has been what I would term "heel up". As the heel is up off the pedal.

There is the 'heel up' style with the toes pointed dramatically down into the pedals and most the motion comes from the ankles. Mike Portnoy plays like this..

[FockerTheLopper]

I have equal control with both, I accually switch in my own twisted variation of heel toe. I sort of stomp on my pedal for power, then I kick back up with the balls of my feet for the second stroke and for power, then I stomp and repeat. I can go pretty fast but I don't always get the 3 or more.

[Crispy The Drummer]

Thomas Lang says a drummer should learn both, for better technique.

[DxRocker]

You can't get heel down to be as loud as heel up. That's just absurd.

With the way western music has developed the use/need for heel down playing is pretty much gone. The demands placed on modern drummers requires technique(s) beyond the cappabilities of heel down.

Though I believe everyone should learn several bass drum techniques and get to a point where it becomes unconsicous as to what kind of movement your foot uses to produce a given passage of notes.

as usual, you hit the nail on the head :thumb:

[breakster]

i used to play heal down for control and heal up for power. now i have control either way so i play heal up all the time.

[moogooguypan]

In my beginning days my first instructor had me playing heel-down on the bass and playing (more like paperweighting) heel-up on the hi-hat. I've mostly stuck with that on the hi-hat because it just feels more...solid. Keeps those cymbals firmly together and gives a nice, sharp click when you close them. My right foot, on the other hand, almost without my thinking about it began to alternate between the two methods; I tend to pick my heel up for the faster passages and the louder accents. A few years later when I was doing some bass drum workouts with a different teacher he told me to practice them all heel-down even though I'd be playing them heel-up a lot, because the muscles you work out playing heel-down are still used for control heel-up, but they don't get the workout they would heel-down. Anyway, it's important to be proficient in both.

[Carn]

heel down for the really fast stuff.

[jalel]

I'm like Sic and Bone where I play heel up but with my foot relatively flat and my heel off the pedal.

Oh, by the way, has anyone else noticed that Bone resembles Josiah in a lot of ways. They both work out, are professional drummers, and are both from CA. Hmmmmmm......interesting coincidences.........

[stjimmy5656]

it doesnt matter which u use but heel up gives more of an accent
save it for that

[Sponer]

Heel up just feels so much more natural to me, and I can play much better that way.

Though I'm slowly practicing heel down at times since I've heard many people saying it's so much better once you learn to play heel down. I don't know though, it just doesn't feel right to have my heel down.

[DontSayGoodbye]

I switch around to get the best of both worlds.
I can play faster with my heel-down but heel-up feels more comfortable for me.
Depends on whats best for you really.

I like to switch it up too.
I can somewhat roll with heel up (no double bass :upset: )
And then heel up for powerful notes.

Other than that its heel down i find comfortable.

I bet it has something to do with the first way you try.

[Japan3gro]

I play heel up but my heel isn't in the "air". It's really low as if I were playing heel down.

[Chester]

my drum teacher was telling me about this tehcnique where its like a mix of heel up and heel down,you have ur heel off the pedal, but you only use ur ankle to push the pedal, not ur leg. i had never heard of this, he said a lotta speed metal players use it. i couldnt really do it right il have ot practice it more. i usually use heel up, but for simpler stuff i use heel down sometimes, my teacher is havin me start on some basica jazz drumming, i think i might use heel down for that. i use toe heel a lot in my playing as well

[DontSayGoodbye]

my drum teacher was telling me about this tehcnique where its like a mix of heel up and heel down,you have ur heel off the pedal, but you only use ur ankle to push the pedal, not ur leg. i had never heard of this, he said a lotta speed metal players use it. i couldnt really do it right il have ot practice it more. i usually use heel up, but for simpler stuff i use heel down sometimes, my teacher is havin me start on some basica jazz drumming, i think i might use heel down for that. i use toe heel a lot in my playing as well

the ankle push thing is interesting.
can you describe it for me again svp?

[charlie lokz]

Its True Just Practice Both Ways And You'll Get Used To It Dave Weckl Told Me

[love_hate]

i find heel up to be faster, more powerful and just easier.
heel down is to week for me, and i can't keep playing like that, cause my legs get cramps, lol

[Chrysostom]

heel down for the really fast stuff.

I love you.

I can't for the life of me play heel up. That may be to do with the fact that I'm self-taught, so have no really good idea of what it involves, but it's nigh on impossible for me. Heel down is so much easier. I suck at db because I suck at heel up. When I play db heel down, it's easier for a while, I have a bit more control, but I can't do heel down db for long without my legs getting tired. I hate me. I need a teacher. :upset:

[TTTSNB]

the ankle push thing is interesting.
can you describe it for me again svp?
yeah, thats pretty much the only way to do it. I've found that the only way to practice is to play alot of patterns heel down, and then you'l just gradually find yourself playing your heel up stuff with more ankle.

[raz0r]

I first learned playing with heel down, so, naturally, it feels much more natural to me. I tend to use heel down for more intricate bass work, while using heel up for endurance.

I've always played heel down on the hat pedal, and I see no reason to switch to heel up.

Most of the time when i'm playing, I don't really take notice of how i'm playing, I just play. I probably play about 50/50 heel down/up for basic playing.

i find heel up to be faster, more powerful and just easier.
heel down is to week for me, and i can't keep playing like that, cause my legs get cramps, lol

That's probably just because you're not used to playing like that. the muscles will build up over time, and you'll stop getting cramps.

Ultimately, there is no 'better' technique. It's all a matter of personal preference.

[Starship]

I have learned both, they both have their advantages. I'd say 95% of the time I use heel up, though.

[Tama_Drums]

yeah, thats pretty much the only way to do it. I've found that the only way to practice is to play alot of patterns heel down, and then you'l just gradually find yourself playing your heel up stuff with more ankle.

There is another way, that I have utilized in my practicing. I've raised my throne, so I sit quite high. Then, as long as I sit well back on the throne, it's not that easy to push the pedal down using the entire leg. This of course is because my thighs are resting on the throne much more than they were when I sat lower, so this in turn forces me into using the ankles much more when playing, without having to play heel down. Over time, this has REALLY improved my double bass skills. I still sit fairly high, and now I can play much faster than I could a month ago, since the ankles are now doing most of the movement, instead of the thighs. I used to be at 160-170 bpm max (16ths), now I'm at 210-220.