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Popup-Box
09-15-2005, 10:42 AM
I know this might be considered off-topic for this forum, however, I think I am able to connect the subject to interests of this forum.

Many times when I've listened to songs of Jimi Hendrix, I have noticed several things. Not neccassarily the greatness in his guitar playing (!), but rather the pumping FUNKY GROOVE. Especially the drummer has grabbed my attention, as he seems to be the fundament of the great rhythms that live on in the songs.

Now, what I am wondering is; do the Hendrix band tend to incorporate varied time signatures in their songs, is the drummer (and the rest of the band, for that sake) incredibly gifted when it comes to maintaining grooves, is it a combination of both maybe, or is there another explanation?

Zappa
09-15-2005, 11:08 AM
Since when are varied time signatures funky or groovy?

(*The Noonward Race*)
09-15-2005, 11:45 AM
What exactly were you listening to?

Popup-Box
09-15-2005, 11:54 AM
Zappa: Good question. I am afraid I failed in my reasoning. However, there IS a certain groove going on in most of Hendrix' songs, I will claim. Let me re-phrase a new question: Has anyone else noticed that the musicians in the Hendrix band tend to have a great sense of rhythm?

Another point might be that I react to a song if it has a time signature which is not 4/4. Then, if the rhythm is good, and the time signature is not 4/4, I might automatically relate the greatness of the rhythm to the non-4/4 groove. Just a thought.

Noonward Race: The last example I listened to was Little Wing.

Seafroggys
09-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Mitch Mitchell could lay down the coolest grooves. He definitally has a big jazz background, and it really shows.

jazzfunkboy
09-15-2005, 12:39 PM
the bassist is really great too. they make a great pair, and i think thats where the groove comes from. i love his backup band.

Emin3m
09-15-2005, 03:42 PM
the bassist is really great too. they make a great pair, and i think thats where the groove comes from. i love his backup band.

Noel Redding = bass.

Sam
09-15-2005, 04:44 PM
Jimi Hendrix's rhythm is really smooth and funky, though it has more to do with his playing style then time signatures.

Hendrix is underrated.

punchnpie
09-22-2005, 10:35 AM
Noel Redding = bass.

That all depends on which album you're talking about. IN '69 Redding left and jimi's army buddy Billy Cox became the new bassist.

Broken Arrow
09-22-2005, 01:54 PM
Mitch Mitchell could lay down the coolest grooves. He definitally has a big jazz background, and it really shows.
I love the drumming in "Fire".

(*The Noonward Race*)
09-22-2005, 02:07 PM
I love the drumming in "Fire".
I noticed that too.

Destroyed
09-22-2005, 02:56 PM
Hendrix is underrated.



Joke?

tehnick
09-22-2005, 09:39 PM
Joke?

Hendrix is underated on this board, every where else he is overated.

ok lateralus
09-22-2005, 10:01 PM
Hendrix is underrated.

Yeah, maybe on this board. I see too many people going crazy here for Jimmy Page, but compared to Hendrix, he's mediocre. Hendrix, every aspect of his playing is so amazing... his rhythm and lead...

Titties_n_Beer
09-22-2005, 10:45 PM
hendrix wasnt really a great guitarist, he played with heaps of emotion though, i consider page to be a much better guitarist.

dumbassdrummer
09-22-2005, 11:15 PM
Mitch Mitchell was amazing. Great drummer, and as was already said - alot of jazz influence. Origional musician that guy. Truely a legend.

"Yeah, maybe on this board. I see too many people going crazy here for Jimmy Page, but compared to Hendrix, he's mediocre. Hendrix, every aspect of his playing is so amazing... his rhythm and lead..."

Jimmy Page was the top studio guitarist in the UK when he was 17 years old. Hendrix was great, but he was most definately not as good as Page. Just look at the Zeppelin and Yardbirds cataloge. The variety, musicianship, technicality... it's all there. I love Hendrix, but he simply cannot beat out someone like Jimmy Page.

Ned
09-23-2005, 12:18 AM
Hendrix was great, but he was most definately [sic] not as good as Page. Just look at the Zeppelin and Yardbirds cataloge. The variety, musicianship, technicality... it's all there. I love Hendrix, but he simply cannot beat out someone like Jimmy Page.

That's ridiculous. I saw Page in his prime on the "Stairway to Heaven" tour: He was nothing. The best I can say for Page is that he's better than Steve Miller, which is saying very little. Page could never hold a candle to Jan Ackerman, Danny Kortchmar (of The Section), Jeff Beck, Clapton, Santana, or Hendrix. Even Martin Barre wipes him out. (Write "definitely" fifty times on the chalk board before you leave.)

punchnpie
09-23-2005, 10:52 AM
I would'nt go as far as saying Martin Barre is better then Page. Otherwise i agree with you on everthing else. Speaking of Martin Barre, i'm going to see Tull in October. Anyone else going this year?

PinkFreud
09-23-2005, 04:46 PM
hendrix wasnt really a great guitarist, he played with heaps of emotion though, i consider page to be a much better guitarist.
yes, yes he was. his rhythm work in particular is spectacular. and his solos are much more complex than pages. page was kind of mediocre compared to other guitarists around in the same time period.

Ned
09-24-2005, 02:31 AM
I would'nt go as far as saying Martin Barre is better then Page. Otherwise i agree with you on everthing else. Speaking of Martin Barre, i'm going to see Tull in October. Anyone else going this year?

Well, it may be an exaggeration to say, as I did, that Barre "wipes out" Page. Back in the day I personally preferred Barre. How about that?

I saw Tull in 2003 (August), the first time in several centuries or so. I thought Barre was much improved technically but not pacing himself especially well this particular night. Ian Anderson's flute playing was also much improved technically, in respect to tone, intonation, and clarity, but his solos, although well-paced, were fairly obvious and his lines not intricate, which may be a concession to his non-jazz fans. His patter was very entertaining and his singing voice completely shot. I almost saw Tull again November of 2005 playing just a couple blocks from where I live, but it was the day after the election, and I was too depressed.

dumbassdrummer
09-24-2005, 03:59 AM
Hendrix's solos are more complex than Page's? Maybe if you've only listened to Communication Breakdown, I could understand that claim. From what I can tell, I will have to disagree, based on the opinion of the guitarist in my band Page is superior to Hendrix, and based on the view point of a couple of other professional blues guitarists that I know, Page was a better player. If you could sight some examples as to why you argue that Page is inferior I'd love to give all of this another listening to.

As for Clapton and others being better than Page, with all certainty. But notice I never said Page was better than Clapton, et. al. I said Page was the top studio guitarist when he was 17 in the UK. Clapton and those fellows were out on the road and when they were in the studio it was usually with their band. Page was a studio musician, just a studio musician until Clapton begged him to join the Yardbirds, which he finally did.

Ned
09-24-2005, 05:19 AM
Hendrix's solos are more complex than Page's? Maybe if you've only listened to Communication Breakdown, I could understand that claim. From what I can tell, I will have to disagree, based on the opinion of the guitarist in my band Page is superior to Hendrix

I doubt many of us are interested in the opinion of "the guitarist in [your] band" reported second-hand. Have him come here and explain himself.

If you could sight [sic] some examples as to why you argue that Page is inferior I'd love to give all of this another listening to. Technically he was nothing. He played pentatonic scales in one position. Jan Ackerman was all over his guitar. I saw them both live with my own eyes the same year. Page's tone-quality was awful--and that has a hell of a lot more to do with the way you play than with your amp set-up. Hendrix's tone-quality was amazing. The great thing about Hendrix was how much he could intimate. There was no subtlety whatsoever to Page's playing.

But notice I never said Page was better than Clapton, et. al. I said Page was the top studio guitarist when he was 17 in the UK. You said Page was better than Hendrix, and I say that's ridiculous. Page was *A* studio guitarist in England, certainly not "the top". I don't know the UK studio scene, but I rather suspect he'd have been laughed out of L.A.

Grant
09-24-2005, 07:13 AM
I have yet to hear a Page solo that even comes close to, "Machine Gun". I'm biased though, I loathe that thief Jimmy Page.

PinkFreud
09-24-2005, 10:30 AM
Hendrix's solos are more complex than Page's? Maybe if you've only listened to Communication Breakdown, I could understand that claim. From what I can tell, I will have to disagree, based on the opinion of the guitarist in my band Page is superior to Hendrix, and based on the view point of a couple of other professional blues guitarists that I know, Page was a better player. If you could sight some examples as to why you argue that Page is inferior I'd love to give all of this another listening to.

As for Clapton and others being better than Page, with all certainty. But notice I never said Page was better than Clapton, et. al. I said Page was the top studio guitarist when he was 17 in the UK. Clapton and those fellows were out on the road and when they were in the studio it was usually with their band. Page was a studio musician, just a studio musician until Clapton begged him to join the Yardbirds, which he finally did.
:wave: hi. only communication breakdown? sorry, i own led zeppelins entire discography. including a few bootlegs. i think ive heard more than that. page couldnt touch hendrix's rhythm skills let alone his soloing, songwriting, or creativity. machine gun, come on (pt 2), little wing, red house, and various other songs are testament to hendrix's superiority.

and by the way, clapton never begged page to join the yardbirds. clapton was long gone by then. he left, they brought beck in, and then page reconsidered their offer. and beck was far better than page too.

DemBonez
09-24-2005, 11:11 AM
I personally find Hendrix to be the greatest rock guitarist we've ever seen. The way he found a distinct/original sound to his music, developed it, and made some amazing songs based on it is the main reason I say he is the best. However, this doesn't belittle what Jimmy Page had done as a guitarist. Page was great too, regardless of what everyone is trying to say about him. He was more versatille than Hendrix, both as a guitarist and as a song writer. I just find it silly that the only way to say you think one is better than the other is by completely belittling the accomplishments of the other.

With that said, Peter Green is my favorite classic rock guitarist.

jam9383
09-24-2005, 11:56 AM
to say that Page is more versatile than Hendrix is ignoring Hendrix's discography, hes played funky songs rock blues he had so many more influences than the blues. The man had a great rhythm something that is really rare in rock at the time.

magicbus
09-24-2005, 01:13 PM
Hendrix's solos are more complex than Page's? Maybe if you've only listened to Communication Breakdown, I could understand that claim. From what I can tell, I will have to disagree, based on the opinion of the guitarist in my band Page is superior to Hendrix, and based on the view point of a couple of other professional blues guitarists that I know, Page was a better player. If you could sight some examples as to why you argue that Page is inferior I'd love to give all of this another listening to.

A lot of Page's solos are just as many notes as he could cram into the given time (Since I've Been Loving You stands out the most to me). Hendrix used a wide variety of scales, and usually mixed them together in the same solo. Machine Gun is another great example of Hendrix's complexity, as mentioned before. I'm also a little biased towards Page (for the same reason as Passion, Grace, and Fire), but biased or not, Page's skill couldn't touch Hendrix's.

DemBonez
09-24-2005, 02:23 PM
A lot of Page's solos are just as many notes as he could cram into the given time (Since I've Been Loving You stands out the most to me).

That song is no worse than "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)"

nonsense!
09-24-2005, 03:15 PM
So, what's Page have to do with Hendrix being funky or not?

jam9383
09-24-2005, 04:30 PM
That song is no worse than "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)"
Voodoo Chile (slight return) was a totally improvised song for reporters

DemBonez
09-24-2005, 04:47 PM
So what? It still has a similar solo to that of "Since I've Been Loving You".

ok lateralus
09-24-2005, 05:31 PM
That song is no worse than "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)"

That is a ridiculous thing to say. I have no clue how anyone could even begin to compare those two songs- "SIBLY" is good, but the solo is mediocre at best when compared to Voodoo Child (Slight Return). Hendrix made the most amazing sounds with the electric guitar, whereas Page just played okay blues solos. If you think Page is better, listen to Machine Gun live at the fillmore east. That's all I can say.

Sam
09-24-2005, 06:00 PM
Joke?

No.

In addition, why are Hendrix and Page being compared here? They're not that alike.

DemBonez
09-24-2005, 06:23 PM
First off, I never said Page was better, but there is no way in hell he was as bad as everyone is trying to say he was. The solo in "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)" is one of the laziest and unmelodic solos that I have ever heard Hendrix do. Compared to the solo in "Since I've Been Loving You", it sounds a lot more like Hendrix trying to cram as many notes into his solo than Page trying to cram notes into his. With that said ...

Both guitarists are very different and subsequently both were great for different reasons. Hendrix made a new sound on the guitar and made it exceptional. He was original, distinctive, and almost ethereal in what he played. What he played seemed as if he had some how found a different set of tones, notes, and other sonics from his guitar that no one else had seen before. And while Hendrix was original, Page was versatile in what he played. Listen to the first four tracks of In Through The Out Door. You get hard rock/proto-metal tune followed by a rolling shuffle tune followed by an Argentinian flavored tune and finally a country/boogie-woogie influenced rock tune. Regardless of what you say, Hendrix did not play that wide of a variety of songs.

rockinbass17
09-24-2005, 08:29 PM
How'd this turn into a "Hendrix vs. Page" thread?

I love Noel Redding. He was so overlooked as a pioneer bass player. He held back alot, but every now and then he'd come up with this incredibly groovy line that just fit in perfectly with Mitchill's drumming.

bibbl
09-24-2005, 09:12 PM
How'd this turn into a "Hendrix vs. Page" thread?

I don't know. I think that they were both good guitarists. You can't really compare them, since they played completely differently. I do like Page's work, but personally, I like Jimi's guitar work better.

If you think Page is better, listen to Machine Gun live at the fillmore east. That's all I can say.

I have the guitar book for that concert. It's crazy. But that's because I suck at guitar.

Popup-Box
09-25-2005, 08:25 AM
This thread has exploded since last time I browsed through it. One might say it's not very rewarding to discuss who's the better of x and y, however; I have to admit I find it interesting to compare certain guitarists.

I have listened to several songs by both Hendrix and Zeppelin. That said, I'm yet no expert. If I have a favourite guitar solo of each it must be All Along The Watchtower by Hendrix and Stairway To Heaven by Page. If I had to set the two of these up against each other, I think Stairway... gets my vote.

Does that mean Page is a better guitarist than Hendrix? No. I haven't listened enough to them to be the judge.

For the hardcore-fans of both: could you provide me a few good examples on guitar solos based on major scales? I don't know who of them that incorporated a major tonality in their solos most often, but I bet both have several examples. Primarily, I had the major pentatonic in mind, but let's just expand it to "major scales".

The reason is because I have listened to x amount of classic rock songs where the minor pentatonic dominates. I still find it interesting listening to songs with solos based on non-minorpentatonic scales.

Now?

magicbus
09-25-2005, 09:23 AM
For Page: Misty Mountain Hop, D'Yer Mak'er

For Hendrix: The Wind Cries Mary, May This Be Love

I'm having trouble thinking of more, but I'll post them if I can think of them.

Popup-Box
09-25-2005, 09:57 AM
For Page: Misty Mountain Hop, D'Yer Mak'er

For Hendrix: The Wind Cries Mary, May This Be Love

I'm having trouble thinking of more, but I'll post them if I can think of them.

Thank you for that. I will explore the songs.

We No Speak
09-25-2005, 01:43 PM
Been watching this post with interest and thought it was time to chime in.

I think comparing Page and Hendrix is not a fair comparison for one simple reason, Hendrix changed the world and Page didn't.

Who's better? Who cares?

The really sad part that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact they both played music during a period of time when drug use was in high gear.

Maybe the question should be, who could play better when they were high?

I've always felt Page was a great composer and a thoughtful soloist, but his ideas were held back by his dexterity. I always assumed that was a drug thing, but never held it against him. If I did that, then Cream and Traffic would get black marks too.

Hendrix on the other hand was a pop sensation that appealed to musicians because of his unique sound, technique, and success. I'm sure his sense of how to make something groove had a lot to do with it too. I never thought of Page as someone that had that "groove" thing going.

The "Groove" factor can't ever be underrated.

Of course, that's just my opinion and who cares about that?

Rick
www.jazzrockworld.com

BTW - Hendrix is the hardest working dead guy is the music business. He's been dead for 35 years and still comes out with a new album every year. Not bad...

jam9383
09-25-2005, 03:59 PM
staiway solo is Am pentatonic with half in the common box position

Ned
09-25-2005, 05:18 PM
I have listened to several songs by both Hendrix and Zeppelin. That said, I'm yet no expert. If I have a favourite guitar solo of each it must be All Along The Watchtower by Hendrix and Stairway To Heaven by Page. If I had to set the two of these up against each other, I think Stairway... gets my vote.


First, I think there is some justification for a Hendrix thread in this forum because at the time of his death Hendrix was on the verge of collaborating with Gil Evans and he had been hanging out with and trading ideas with Miles Davis. Moreover, even though Hendrix never quite managed to venture into fusion, he still strongly influenced it. There really is no justification for a Jimmy Page thread here, and this thread, I'm sorry to report, is in some danger of becoming one. The only excuse I can think of to discuss Jimmy Page in this forum is to contrast him with Hendrix in order to show just how important Hendrix was, to make him a foil for Hendrix. If we were to achieve a consensus that Page was superior to Hendrix or equal to Page or even separate-but-equal (equal in his own sphere) to Hendrix, then this excuse would immediately collapse.

Second, I think you've picked pretty good examples considering that they both involve the same chord progression. On the other hand, "Stairway to Heaven" is a long song, and the Page solo occurs just where it needs a lift, and this may unfortunately distract us as critics. Robert Plant, I think, deserves credit for the song itself. (Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I donít remember.) We might say analogously that Bob Dylan deserves credit for "All Along the Watchtower", the song itself, but that's not really a fair comparison because there's not nearly as much to Watchtower; Watchtower the song doesnít really distract us. Hendrix's solos and rhythm playing in Watchtower demonstrate his ability to intimate, to suggest more than he actually plays. They demonstrate his great sound and his rhythmic vitality. Page's solo in Heaven gets the job done; it's okay; it's perfectly adequate, but it is certainly not transcendent and Pageís tone quality is not very good. If it were not for the song in which it occurs, I wouldn't see any reason to listen to it twice.

Ned
09-25-2005, 05:25 PM
BTW - Hendrix is the hardest working dead guy is the music business. He's been dead for 35 years and still comes out with a new album every year. Not bad...

Precisely. He's even more posthumously prolific than Hemingway.

jam9383
09-25-2005, 06:11 PM
listen to Spirit-Taurus

ok lateralus
09-26-2005, 04:43 PM
First, I think there is some justification for a Hendrix thread in this forum because at the time of his death Hendrix was on the verge of collaborating with Gil Evans and he had been hanging out with and trading ideas with Miles Davis. Moreover, even though Hendrix never quite managed to venture into fusion, he still strongly influenced it. There really is no justification for a Jimmy Page thread here, and this thread, I'm sorry to report, is in some danger of becoming one. The only excuse I can think of to discuss Jimmy Page in this forum is to contrast him with Hendrix in order to show just how important Hendrix was, to make him a foil for Hendrix. If we were to achieve a consensus that Page was superior to Hendrix or equal to Page or even separate-but-equal (equal in his own sphere) to Hendrix, then this excuse would immediately collapse.

Second, I think you've picked pretty good examples considering that they both involve the same chord progression. On the other hand, "Stairway to Heaven" is a long song, and the Page solo occurs just where it needs a lift, and this may unfortunately distract us as critics. Robert Plant, I think, deserves credit for the song itself. (Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I donít remember.) We might say analogously that Bob Dylan deserves credit for "All Along the Watchtower", the song itself, but that's not really a fair comparison because there's not nearly as much to Watchtower; Watchtower the song doesnít really distract us. Hendrix's solos and rhythm playing in Watchtower demonstrate his ability to intimate, to suggest more than he actually plays. They demonstrate his great sound and his rhythmic vitality. Page's solo in Heaven gets the job done; it's okay; it's perfectly adequate, but it is certainly not transcendent and Pageís tone quality is not very good. If it were not for the song in which it occurs, I wouldn't see any reason to listen to it twice.

I agree. Page's solo in Stairway, while enjoyable, can't begin to compare with Hendrix's best solos. Or not even solos, just all-around playing. That's the thing- with Hendrix, there was no difference between rhythm and lead in terms of greatness. He found a way to be extremely innovative and impressive in both areas. However, Page's rhythm work is far from extrordinary and though he made up a few decent riffs, Tony Iommi was a much better rhythm guitarist in my opinion. Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

dumbassdrummer
09-26-2005, 09:17 PM
"I think comparing Page and Hendrix is not a fair comparison for one simple reason, Hendrix changed the world and Page didn't. "

If you want to compare influence, certainly Hendrix was more influentical, however, that is not in anyway to dimish the imeasurable influence of Page.

"(Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I donít remember.)"

Plant wrote the lyrics himself, but as far as I know the music goes to Page. Though it is possible both Jones and Bonham had some hand. I'm not sure off hand, I'd have to look it up.

"I agree. Page's solo in Stairway, while enjoyable, can't begin to compare with Hendrix's best solos."

Certainly, I agree. But why compare Jimi's best with Jimmy's (heheh) mediocre?

"Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about."

Probably because STH is one of the first songs new Zep fans hear, and to a beginer guitarists, that solo is quite impressive, thus it generates a great deal of buzz.

Both are absolutely amazing guitarists in their own right.

EargaZm
09-26-2005, 09:39 PM
I prefer not to delve into comparisons being as I like both Hendrix & Page.
Both were great players ahead of their time. :thumb:

Others:
Peter Green *Early Fleetwood Mac & his solo careers

Robin Trower

Frank Marino *Mahogany Rush (***has some of the fastest fingers I have ever heard!)

Johnny Winter

Davis Gilmour *Pink Floyd & his solo careers

Carlos Santana

Ned
09-26-2005, 09:44 PM
Both are absolutely amazing guitarists in their own right.

You seem to have changed your tune here. Be that as it may, the remark you really need to address is this one, the one you've conspicuously ignored:

"There really is no justification for a Jimmy Page thread here, and this thread, I'm sorry to report, is in some danger of becoming one. The only excuse I can think of to discuss Jimmy Page in this forum is to contrast him with Hendrix in order to show just how important Hendrix was, to make him a foil for Hendrix. If we were to achieve a consensus that Page was superior to Hendrix or equal to Page or even separate-but-equal (equal in his own sphere) to Hendrix, then this excuse would immediately collapse."

You will allow, I hope, that Jimmy Page had nothing whatsoever to do with jazz (or funk). You will allow further, I hope, that this is a jazz (and funk) forum. How can you possibly justify going on and on about about Page then? (Remember that you're the one who brought up Page in the first place.)

PinkFreud
09-26-2005, 10:34 PM
"I think comparing Page and Hendrix is not a fair comparison for one simple reason, Hendrix changed the world and Page didn't. "

If you want to compare influence, certainly Hendrix was more influentical, however, that is not in anyway to dimish the imeasurable influence of Page.

"(Maybe he wrote it in collaboration with Page; I donít remember.)"

Plant wrote the lyrics himself, but as far as I know the music goes to Page. Though it is possible both Jones and Bonham had some hand. I'm not sure off hand, I'd have to look it up.

"I agree. Page's solo in Stairway, while enjoyable, can't begin to compare with Hendrix's best solos."

Certainly, I agree. But why compare Jimi's best with Jimmy's (heheh) mediocre?

"Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about."

Probably because STH is one of the first songs new Zep fans hear, and to a beginer guitarists, that solo is quite impressive, thus it generates a great deal of buzz.

Both are absolutely amazing guitarists in their own right.

but while hendrix WAS an amazing guitarist, page was a good guitarist. theres a difference there. what would you say page's best solo is? since ive been loving you? achille's last stand? certainly not the slop-fest that is heartbreaker. whichever solo you pick, it still wont stand up to hendrix's.

ps: ned, would you say a hendrix thread belongs here? i wouldnt.

Ned
09-26-2005, 10:37 PM
ned, would you say a hendrix thread belongs here? i wouldnt.

I would and DID say, "I think there is some justification for a Hendrix thread in this forum because at the time of his death Hendrix was on the verge of collaborating with Gil Evans and he had been hanging out with and trading ideas with Miles Davis. Moreover, even though Hendrix never quite managed to venture into fusion, he still strongly influenced it."

Flamencology
09-26-2005, 10:43 PM
I think that Hendrix is fair game...

He was a major catalyst for what Miles Davis, Tony Williams, John McLaughlin, etc. did from '69 on... he's been a huge influence on some of the best talent in jazz guitar, from David Fiuczynski to Sonny Sharrock to John Scofield to NGuyen Le to Kurt Rosenwinkel, etc. And finally, his music has been interpreted by personalities as diverse as Gil Evans and Dave Murray, as well as several of the aforementioned.

Popup-Box
09-27-2005, 02:38 PM
Page's solo in STH is really just average, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

Technically, it might not be the most challenging one, but Page obviously did a couple of right things concerning this solo. Even though the technique is not neccessarily the best, he put together a well-suiting collection of notes. There is one certain note in the beginning phrase of the solo which I have always reacted on. From what I remember, I think it was F, given the solo as a whole is in Am. This F note gives the melody an extra flavour, compared to the sound one would get sticking to the Am Pentatonic scale only. So, Page succeeded on the note choice.

Another detail, be it a pro- or con- for Page, is the way the song builds up. The way the song explodes into a solo exactly when it does, fits perfectly. One might say that the song screams for a solo at this point. Then again, based on the same premises, there will be quite high expactations for a solo after such a build up. Finally, there's the question whether Page succeeded or not. Well, some may describe the solo as average. I, on my hand, would say it's above average.

jam9383
09-27-2005, 03:04 PM
the first note bent D a full step which is a E which is in Am penta scale ,the fifth of A and not a new or interesting note choice

EmergencyRoom
09-27-2005, 03:30 PM
To Ned: I thought that Blues was an accepted genre in here as well? If so then Page qualifies IMO.

jam9383
09-27-2005, 07:47 PM
To Ned: I thought that Blues was an accepted genre in here as well? If so then Page qualifies IMO.
so would the Beatles Guns N Roses etc

PinkFreud
09-27-2005, 08:19 PM
neither of those were really blues bands. you realize that right?

you shouldve used cream, the jeff beck group, or stevie ray vaughan. especially seeing as how all mentioned above walked the line between blues and rock.

Krabsworth
09-27-2005, 08:50 PM
Man, Hendrix in Jazz and Funk, you just can't hide anymore from this guy...:(

jam9383
09-27-2005, 08:53 PM
neither of those were really blues bands. you realize that right?

you shouldve used cream, the jeff beck group, or stevie ray vaughan. especially seeing as how all mentioned above walked the line between blues and rock.
Neither was Led Zeppellin

PinkFreud
09-27-2005, 08:59 PM
Neither was Led Zeppellin
i would classify zeppelin as blues/rock. and seeing as how jazz/rock belongs in the jazz forum, i suppose blues rock belongs here.

they had heavy blues influence, going so far as to steal blues songs and pass them off as their own.

dumbassdrummer
09-27-2005, 10:46 PM
"they had heavy blues influence, going so far as to steal blues songs and pass them off as their own."

I'm not sure they stole songs anymore than EC or any other major act that covers songs does, but whatever.

Also, I don't like calling Led Zeppelin blues/rock. Theres so much more than just that. Theres folk, reggae and even jazz infused in their music.

PinkFreud
09-27-2005, 11:09 PM
"they had heavy blues influence, going so far as to steal blues songs and pass them off as their own."

I'm not sure they stole songs anymore than EC or any other major act that covers songs does, but whatever.

Also, I don't like calling Led Zeppelin blues/rock. Theres so much more than just that. Theres folk, reggae and even jazz infused in their music.
you would be wrong. they would take lyrics and some guitar parts without crediting the original writer. there's been lots of talk about it.

and they really only dabbled in those other genres. i would still overridingly call them blues/rock.

dumbassdrummer
09-27-2005, 11:24 PM
"you would be wrong. they would take lyrics and some guitar parts without crediting the original writer. there's been lots of talk about it."

Interesting. Can you tell me more. What are some examples?

magicbus
09-28-2005, 12:59 AM
"you would be wrong. they would take lyrics and some guitar parts without crediting the original writer. there's been lots of talk about it."

Interesting. Can you tell me more. What are some examples?

How Many More Times - They took many blues lyrics and threw them all together, including some from Howlin' Wolf.

You Shook Me/I Can't Quit You Baby - Both of these songs were written by Willie Dixon. He even brought up a lawsuit against them for using them without his consent.

Dazed And Confused - Originally written by Jake Holmes, claimed to be written by Jimmy Page.

Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You - An English folk song or something, credited mostly to Jimmy page.

Stairway To Heaven - Claimed to have an extremely similar chord progression to "Taurus", a song by the band Spirit. I've never heard "Taurus", so I can't vouch for this one.

There are many others, but it's too late and I can't think straight right now. Maybe tomorrow.

EDIT: You can read more about it here (http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html).

dumbassdrummer
09-28-2005, 01:36 AM
I knew Dixon wrote some of those songs, he get's credit now so I guess I never put it together. Thanks for the info and the link.

Popup-Box
09-28-2005, 04:20 AM
the first note bent D a full step which is a E which is in Am penta scale ,the fifth of A and not a new or interesting note choice

I see, but I did not mean the very first note. I meant, from what I can remember, a note in the first phrase. I'll have a listen to refresh my mind.

05:56 - there's the note I thought spiced it up. Now, I'll admit that the reason why I reacted, might be that around the time I first listened to it, I also listened to many other classic rock bands whose solos were - almost exclusively - based on the Pentatonic minor scale, nothing more. Thus, the Stairway To Heaven solos acted as a refresher compared to what I was used to.

Popup-Box
09-28-2005, 04:59 AM
For Page: Misty Mountain Hop, D'Yer Mak'er

For Hendrix: The Wind Cries Mary, May This Be Love

I'm having trouble thinking of more, but I'll post them if I can think of them.

Great examples you provded there. Exactly the type I was looking for.

Regarding these exact song examples, Page seemed to have a somewhat simpler approach to the songs, yet it worked perfectly I think.

Hendrix' contributions were a little more complex, and a bit more technical. However, Page was equally good on creating something that suits the musical setting. While Hendrix had a slightly more nuanced approach, I don't know whether it added that much more to the song, compared to Page's examples in this case.

Anyway, I got what I wanted. Great atmospheres in all 4 songs. Thank you, and feel free to give more examples in the same vein.

DemBonez
09-28-2005, 05:47 AM
you would be wrong. they would take lyrics and some guitar parts without crediting the original writer. there's been lots of talk about it.

So they are right along acts like Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf?

PinkFreud
09-28-2005, 10:12 AM
So they are right along acts like Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf?
no, because muddy and wolf would credit the writer (usually willie dixon)?

jam9383
09-28-2005, 11:04 AM
i would classify zeppelin as blues/rock. and seeing as how jazz/rock belongs in the jazz forum, i suppose blues rock belongs here.

they had heavy blues influence, going so far as to steal blues songs and pass them off as their own.
my point was that you couldnt go that far as to consider led zeppellin to be in jazz forum because you could go on with associating and include any band in forum like GNR jazz-Blues-Rock-GNR

jam9383
09-28-2005, 11:05 AM
no, because muddy and wolf would credit the writer (usually willie dixon)?
either way muddy and wolf wouldnt try to claim credit for it unlike Page , Taurus does sound like Stairway

DemBonez
09-28-2005, 02:30 PM
no, because muddy and wolf would credit the writer (usually willie dixon)?

You are joking, right? Blues musicians of the post-war era had the nasty habit of taking a pre-war song, changing the title of the track, changing the chord progression, slapping their name on the writing credits, and riding it to the bank. Maybe you can get the songs "I Asked For Water (She Gave Me Gasoline)" written by Howlin' Wolf in 1962 and "Cool Drink of Water Blues" written by Tommy Johnson in 1929 and explain to me how Howlin' Wolf wrote the exact same tune with different lyrics? It has become a practice in the blues making most of the classic songs undefinable when looking for who wrote them.

Ned
09-28-2005, 04:29 PM
my point was that you couldnt go that far as to consider led zeppellin to be in jazz forum because you could go on with associating and include any band in forum like GNR jazz-Blues-Rock-GNR

I don't know about Guns 'N Roses (however it's spelled) in particular, but I strongly agree with your basic point. Sure, both jazz and Jimmy Page used blues as points of departure, but to say that therefore Jimmy Page belongs in the jazz forum is like playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

bibbl
09-28-2005, 04:36 PM
Wow, you know what's so amazing about all this? It started out as a Jimmy Hendrix thread. Now we're discussing blues and rock artists who stole other people's songs. :lol:

Sam
09-28-2005, 04:43 PM
I know. I mean, I like Led Zep an all, but I'm sick and ****ing tired of people bringing Jimmy Page into everything.

Popup-Box
09-29-2005, 06:06 AM
Well, as this thread was created in order to get a few answers about Hendrix and the great rhythm/groove of his band; Let me add that I hear a similar thing going on in most - yes - Rage Against The Machine songs.

You can argue whether this and that artist or band should be discussed in this forum, but when bands got qualities which I associate with, let's say funk, I feel like asking a question. I have always considered the groove of Hendrix's music funky, yet I see that he does not play funk in its pure form, not at all.

Some bands may have a groovy approach, by nature. In Rage Against The Machine's case, it sounds like 4/4, but very... swinging; not as 'standard' as the 4/4 I hear in many other songs. The last song of the mentioned band I noticed this feel in was Snakecharmer. Bullet In The Head and Killing In The Name Of... are other examples.

Any comments?

(I hope you don't flame me for bringing in bands 'outside' of the funk/jazz genre, strictly speaking)

PinkFreud
09-29-2005, 10:06 AM
You are joking, right? Blues musicians of the post-war era had the nasty habit of taking a pre-war song, changing the title of the track, changing the chord progression, slapping their name on the writing credits, and riding it to the bank. Maybe you can get the songs "I Asked For Water (She Gave Me Gasoline)" written by Howlin' Wolf in 1962 and "Cool Drink of Water Blues" written by Tommy Johnson in 1929 and explain to me how Howlin' Wolf wrote the exact same tune with different lyrics? It has become a practice in the blues making most of the classic songs undefinable when looking for who wrote them.
same tune as in same chord progression? at least he changed the lyrics. i dont know. you clearly know more about blues than i do as i rarely dip into pre-war blues. you learn something every day, huh?

Ned
09-30-2005, 05:15 AM
Another detail, be it a pro- or con- for Page, is the way the song builds up. The way the song explodes into a solo exactly when it does, fits perfectly. One might say that the song screams for a solo at this point. Then again, based on the same premises, there will be quite high expactations for a solo after such a build up. Finally, there's the question whether Page succeeded or not.

I'd already covered ALL of that. There's a minimum the solo has to accomplish (which, in contradistinction, Carlos Alomar on Bowie's "Loving the Alien" fails to accomplish in analogous but more difficult circumstances). Once that threshold is reached the song supports the soloist and makes his job easier.

Krabsworth
09-30-2005, 04:57 PM
You are joking, right? Blues musicians of the post-war era had the nasty habit of taking a pre-war song, changing the title of the track, changing the chord progression, slapping their name on the writing credits, and riding it to the bank. Maybe you can get the songs "I Asked For Water (She Gave Me Gasoline)" written by Howlin' Wolf in 1962 and "Cool Drink of Water Blues" written by Tommy Johnson in 1929 and explain to me how Howlin' Wolf wrote the exact same tune with different lyrics? It has become a practice in the blues making most of the classic songs undefinable when looking for who wrote them.

That's the way the blues works, musicians recycle each others stuff.

Popup-Box
10-01-2005, 06:57 AM
I'd already covered ALL of that. There's a minimum the solo has to accomplish (which, in contradistinction, Carlos Alomar on Bowie's "Loving the Alien" fails to accomplish in analogous but more difficult circumstances). Once that threshold is reached the song supports the soloist and makes his job easier.

Interesting. Could you tell a bit more about the Bowie song? Compare it to Stairway To Heaven.

DemBonez
10-01-2005, 03:55 PM
same tune as in same chord progression? at least he changed the lyrics. i dont know. you clearly know more about blues than i do as i rarely dip into pre-war blues. you learn something every day, huh?

The guitar part is the same lick as the Tommy Johnson's song, but Howlin' decided to remove the chord progression. And yes, as stated already that this has become common practice in the blues. While blues musicians "pay homage" by taking credit for other's songs, rock musicians "plagiarize" for doing the same thing. The blues is a strange genre in that way people apraise it.

jam9383
10-01-2005, 05:13 PM
The guitar part is the same lick as the Tommy Johnson's song, but Howlin' decided to remove the chord progression. And yes, as stated already that this has become common practice in the blues. While blues musicians "pay homage" by taking credit for other's songs, rock musicians "plagiarize" for doing the same thing. The blues is a strange genre in that way people apraise it.
I think thats because someone like keith richards or some of the other rock musicians set precedence for giving credit except page.

Ned
10-01-2005, 11:33 PM
Interesting. Could you tell a bit more about the Bowie song? Compare it to Stairway To Heaven.

Oh, it's just that there's an elaborate set-up to the solo. "Loving the Alien" appeared on Tonight, which was the follow-up to Let's Dance, and some of the arrangements seem to assume that Stevie Ray Vaughan is still among the musicians present.

Ned
10-01-2005, 11:36 PM
The guitar part is the same lick as the Tommy Johnson's song, but Howlin' decided to remove the chord progression. And yes, as stated already that this has become common practice in the blues. While blues musicians "pay homage" by taking credit for other's songs, rock musicians "plagiarize" for doing the same thing. The blues is a strange genre in that way people apraise it.

It depends how you go about it . It was a fairly brazen and crude for Led Zeppelin to appropriate Robert Johnson's "squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg" unattributed and then TITLE the result "The Lemon Song" (not to be confused with the Nazz's "The Lemming Song").

PinkFreud
10-02-2005, 12:35 AM
It depends how you go about. It was a fairly brazen and crude for Led Zeppelin to appropriate Robert Johnson's "squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg" unattributed and then TITLE the result "The Lemon Song" (not to be confused with the Nazz's "The Lemming Song").
and also melding various parts of different blues songs to form "how many more times." maybe it was just shocking because it was a time where musicians actually had begun crediting their sources, like the rolling stones and others. but i also see where dembonez is coming from.

Popup-Box
10-02-2005, 09:06 AM
How would you describe the frequency of swing rhythms in Hendrix' songs? Quite high, or did he stick to standard rhythms. His songs of 4/4, for instance; were many of them 4/4 swing, or regular 4/4?

DemBonez
10-02-2005, 09:28 AM
It depends how you go about it . It was a fairly brazen and crude for Led Zeppelin to appropriate Robert Johnson's "squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg" unattributed and then TITLE the result "The Lemon Song" (not to be confused with the Nazz's "The Lemming Song").

Why don't you actually bring up the real plagiarism in that song? Plant doesn't steal the line verbatim from Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues", and in fact it is similar to what Johnson did with his "Cross Road Blues." Think Robert Johnson came up with the idea of selling his soul at the crossroads? The whole lore manifested (atleast documented) with Peetie Wheatstraw who claimed to have been the Devil's son-in-law. Tommy Johnson (no relation to Robert) who enjoyed Wheatstraw's persona started to claim that he had sold his soul to the devil to learn how to play guitar, oddly enough he went down to the crossroads. This was the mid '20s, long before Johnson was recording in '36.

Of course the song does take heavily from Howlin' Wolf's "The Killing Floor."

Slight Return
10-02-2005, 04:49 PM
Also, Robert Johnson ripped off Lonnie Johnson's "Life Saver Blues" with different lyrics under the name "Malted Milk". At least, that's what I heard.

Hendrix though! Whenever I see a Hendrix thread, I can't keep away. Let's see...Hendrix IS underrated on this whole board more often than not. That really disappoints me. If you think Hendrix is nothing special, you've got to hear more of his work, not excluding the live performances *cough*Winterland*cough* *cough*Stockholm*cough*WoodstockBerkeleyFillmoreEa stBlackpoolParis ET CETERA

Ah, now we can return to the topic...well, the new topic. Lol. I think it's on blues now? GOD I LOVE BLUES!

Ned
10-02-2005, 05:47 PM
Why don't you actually bring up the real plagiarism in that song? Plant doesn't steal the line verbatim from Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues", and in fact it is similar to what Johnson did with his "Cross Road Blues." Think Robert Johnson came up with the idea of selling his soul at the crossroads? The whole lore manifested (atleast documented) with Peetie Wheatstraw who claimed to have been the Devil's son-in-law. Tommy Johnson (no relation to Robert) who enjoyed Wheatstraw's persona started to claim that he had sold his soul to the devil to learn how to play guitar, oddly enough he went down to the crossroads. This was the mid '20s, long before Johnson was recording in '36.

Of course the song does take heavily from Howlin' Wolf's "The Killing Floor."

Two problems with this post: 1) You've unaccountably completely misunderstood me. I didn't accuse Led Zeppelin of plagiarism; I accused it of bad taste. 2) It's bait and switch. If you KNOW the complete history of the line in question ("you squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg"), tell us; don't go off on a "devil at the crossroads" tangent.

DemBonez
10-02-2005, 07:06 PM
So in other words you had a completely irrelevant post just showing that Led Zeppelin had "bad taste"? Touchť Ned. Quoting what I said and having an irrelevant comment on it is a great discussion starter.

Fatback
10-03-2005, 07:01 AM
It's a shame we were robbed of Hendrix so quickly. We can only guess what he would be doing now.
He MIGHT be whoring himself out to the likes of P-Diddy (or whoever the hell he is nowadays) as Page did but I doubt it.

Ned
10-03-2005, 10:09 AM
So in other words you had a completely irrelevant post just showing that Led Zeppelin had "bad taste"? Touchť Ned. Quoting what I said and having an irrelevant comment on it is a great discussion starter.

Not at all irrelevant. As I said, it matters what you do with what you take. That's my point.

Ned
10-03-2005, 10:13 AM
It's a shame we were robbed of Hendrix so quickly. We can only guess what he would be doing now.
He MIGHT be whoring himself out to the likes of P-Diddy (or whoever the hell he is nowadays) as Page did but I doubt it.

Difficult to say what he might be doing NOW. He might be long retired. Of more immediate interest is what he would have done in the early seventies if he had lived through them. What would the Gil Evans collaboration have been like? What would a Miles Davis collaboration have been like. What effect would Hendrix's venturing into jazz have had on the metal-heads who still revere him? Would they have repudiated him or would we have been spared tons of bull**** metal?

Fatback
10-03-2005, 11:33 AM
Difficult to say what he might be doing NOW. He might be long retired. Of more immediate interest is what he would have done in the early seventies if he had lived through them. What would the Gil Evans collaboration have been like? What would a Miles Davis collaboration have been like. What effect would Hendrix's venturing into jazz have had on the metal-heads who still revere him? Would they have repudiated him or would we have been spared tons of bull**** metal?
Good point, Ned.
...and just FYI, my bud Jimmy Haslip is planning a tribute album to Jimi. I suspect that Robben Ford will be involved.
I personally can't wait!

Slight Return
10-03-2005, 12:54 PM
Hendrix was a musical genius. Nobody can really specify what he would be doing if he were still alive. He could've done anything IMHO.

smart blockhead
10-03-2005, 05:44 PM
I don't think Hendrix or Page can hold a candle to Frank Zappa in terms of musical originality or musicianship. I'd like to see someone give a good arguement.

m30wc0w
10-03-2005, 05:54 PM
This is a thread about Hendrix. Not a thread against Hendrix and not about what Blues is.

Fatback
10-03-2005, 06:01 PM
I don't think Hendrix or Page can hold a candle to Frank Zappa in terms of musical originality or musicianship. I'd like to see someone give a good arguement.
Well.... it's apples and oranges, isn't it? I just know that when Hendrix hit, I was already playing for a little while and it seemed VERY original to me. He was re-inventing the guitar...playing licks that hadn't been heard before. i liked Zappa too but like 98% of people it was his off-the-wall lyrics and humor that caught my attention. I was a very young dude and his Edgard Varese-like stuff was of little interest. Suzy Creamcheese was what was cool about Frank at first....later we realized he had some chops.

PinkFreud
10-03-2005, 07:03 PM
Well.... it's apples and oranges, isn't it? I just know that when Hendrix hit, I was already playing for a little while and it seemed VERY original to me. He was re-inventing the guitar...playing licks that hadn't been heard before. i liked Zappa too but like 98% of people it was his off-the-wall lyrics and humor that caught my attention. I was a very young dude and his Edgard Varese-like stuff was of little interest. Suzy Creamcheese was what was cool about Frank at first....later we realized he had some chops.
yeah, the thing about zappa is that his technical ability was hidden beneath his mounds and mounds of songs that were based around his lyrics and wackiness.

Grant
10-03-2005, 07:21 PM
But ****, he could play.

PinkFreud
10-03-2005, 09:16 PM
psh. yeah he could. his cover of whipping post? with steve vai in his band i believe. the solos they play are outrageous.

Jazzagog
10-03-2005, 09:55 PM
Mitch was a slightly behind the beat drummer, a total match for Jimi's style. Slightly sloppy, but just in time. The whole Hendrix era was session after session of slightly behind the beat jamming. Most players that try to copy the Hendrix feel are too ahead of the beat or right on. Maybe time is running too fast today to ever get that (Just dropped, recovered, took a nap right before the recording session feel...)

Popup-Box
10-04-2005, 02:28 AM
Mitch was a slightly behind the beat drummer, a total match for Jimi's style. Slightly sloppy, but just in time. The whole Hendrix era was session after session of slightly behind the beat jamming. Most players that try to copy the Hendrix feel are too ahead of the beat or right on. Maybe time is running too fast today to ever get that (Just dropped, recovered, took a nap right before the recording session feel...)

Interesting reading.

Ned
10-04-2005, 02:21 PM
Well.... it's apples and oranges, isn't it?

Or apples and kiwi from Pluto.

Popup-Box
10-04-2005, 02:55 PM
Jazzagog, Ned or anyone; for the curiosity, did Hendrix incorporate 4/4 swing rhythms in many of his songs or did he stick mostly to standard 4/4?

umbilical_mind
10-04-2005, 03:27 PM
i wuv hendwix.

Grant
10-04-2005, 03:40 PM
Pink Freud, would you mind sending me "Whipping Post"?

mahavishnugrantkelly@gmail.com

Fatback
10-04-2005, 05:39 PM
Jazzagog, Ned or anyone; for the curiosity, did Hendrix incorporate 4/4 swing rhythms in many of his songs or did he stick mostly to standard 4/4?
He swung out fo a minute on "If 6 Was 9" at least...probably more stuff.

PinkFreud
10-04-2005, 06:52 PM
Pink Freud, would you mind sending me "Whipping Post"?

mahavishnugrantkelly@gmail.com
sent

Fatback
10-04-2005, 09:38 PM
PinkFreud = kewlist username EVER. :thumb:

(*The Noonward Race*)
10-05-2005, 12:23 AM
You guys listen to Nine to the Universe?

Popup-Box
10-05-2005, 02:40 AM
He swung out fo a minute on "If 6 Was 9" at least...probably more stuff.

Keep the answers coming. Thank you, I'll check out your example.

However, it is likely that the natural groove of the band as well as one of the drummers' tendency of staying slightly behind the beat are factors that made me react.

That said, I've listened mostly to standard 4/4 songs, so tend to notice when there's something different going on.

B A S S _ K I N G
10-05-2005, 05:18 AM
hendrix is undoubtfulli one ov the most well known guitarists and his music is bloddi awsum

smart blockhead
10-05-2005, 06:06 PM
yeah, the thing about zappa is that his technical ability was hidden beneath his mounds and mounds of songs that were based around his lyrics and wackiness.
Well, a lot of Zappa's albums/songs are instrumentals. It seems like people just remember the weird lyrics more.

PinkFreud
10-05-2005, 06:38 PM
Well, a lot of Zappa's albums/songs are instrumentals. It seems like people just remember the weird lyrics more.
not too many though. certainly not the majority.

Fatback
10-05-2005, 09:14 PM
Zappa had no delusions about his music's appeal. I saw him quoted several times saying that he made more of the recordings that his young fans bought so that he could AFFORD to make a few of the recordings that meant more to him personally.
He used one of my own favorite sayings more than once to describe some of his work:
"Like the old prostitute said, It smells but it sells!"
(not sure how to correctly do a quote within a quote) :p

smart blockhead
10-05-2005, 09:54 PM
not too many though. certainly not the majority.
Actually its about half and half. Its just that the weird stuff is more popular.

PinkFreud
10-06-2005, 12:11 AM
eh, i suppose. he was an excellent social critic when he was being weird though.

besides, around here, i would say his instrumental work is more popular. or at least his fusion albums, hot rats specifically.

Popup-Box
10-06-2005, 09:55 AM
I am still interested in learning more about Zappa. I've read quite some positive comments about him now, but I do not know enough about his music.

What should I listen to in order to get an impression of how his music is like?

Broken Arrow
10-06-2005, 02:33 PM
Hot Rats is my favourite album of his. It's so the Zappa n00b's album on choice. (I think) That and Freak Out!.

magicbus
10-08-2005, 11:45 PM
Waka Jawaka is my favorite Zappa album, but Hot Rats is very, very cool.

Grant
10-09-2005, 06:59 AM
I really can't choose my favourite Frank Zappa record. However, I love Civilization Phaze III, Freak Out!, We're Only in it For the Money and Lather.

PTheory
10-12-2005, 07:45 AM
When it was an all balck band they had much more groove in my opionion and the sound was all together fatter.

PinkFreud
10-12-2005, 09:52 AM
eh, but he wasnt as talented. i prefer mitch, he's got more style in my opinion.

now billy cox as opposed to redding? psh. no contest. cox all the way.

PTheory
10-12-2005, 10:06 AM
eh, but he wasnt as talented. i prefer mitch, he's got more style in my opinion.

now billy cox as opposed to redding? psh. no contest. cox all the way.

They're both great, it is just a matter of personal preference, but there is no question on the bass players. If you like the band of gypsies stuff check out our website

Http://ptheory.co.uk

Britton
10-16-2005, 12:48 PM
I'm positive some one had already said this but

I don't want to read through all the post.

if you like the funky Hendric check out the live at philmore
stuff.

ok lateralus
10-16-2005, 02:24 PM
Yeah both the experience and the band of gypsys were great, its debatable who's better though maybe the experience just because they, especially mitch, contributed to some of the great ideas found on Jimi's studio albums besides just playing on them.

unclebobscircus
10-16-2005, 05:55 PM
eh, but he wasnt as talented. i prefer mitch, he's got more style in my opinion.

now billy cox as opposed to redding? psh. no contest. cox all the way.
Buddy Miles is ten times the drummer that Mitch Mitchell is. However, Mitch matches a lot better with Jimi because his style is so much looser.

PinkFreud
10-16-2005, 11:03 PM
Buddy Miles is ten times the drummer that Mitch Mitchell is. However, Mitch matches a lot better with Jimi because his style is so much looser.
how is he 10 times a better drummer? along with ian paice, mitchell was among the first to bring jazz chops into rock music. he was more stylish, technical, and had more of a presence. miles had good timing. i cant think of any other benefits of having him as a drummer.

PTheory
10-17-2005, 04:14 AM
The weight he put behind the beats made the whole thing groove better and mad it funkier

Popup-Box
10-17-2005, 12:16 PM
I have come to the conclusion that those who say groove is a subjective matter, is right. I used to automatically think 4/4 swing = good/groovy. Well, I still think 4/4 swing sounds groovy, however, it might be because I haven't heard as many 4/4 swing songs as standard 4/4 songs.

Now, as I'm still very eager about this specific rhythm; is there a few concrete songs in which Hendrix incorporates 4/4 swing? I'd like to know, as he got - in my opinion - a great sense of rhythm by nature.

Any inputs?

Fatback
10-17-2005, 10:25 PM
Buddy Miles is ten times the drummer that Mitch Mitchell is. However, Mitch matches a lot better with Jimi because his style is so much looser.
Just rediculous.
Miles was, to me, a much better vocalist than drummer.
Never showed the kind of versatility as a percussionist that Mitch did.

PinkFreud
10-19-2005, 09:50 AM
Just rediculous.
Miles was, to me, a much better vocalist than drummer.
Never showed the kind of versatility as a percussionist that Mitch did.
that would be because he didnt HAVE any versatility. he could play fairly standard beats but he could never embellish them or give them the flair that mitchell could.

Fatback
10-19-2005, 10:48 AM
Exactamundo.

When you can tell who the player is after a few bars, it's not always a GOOD thing. Such was the case with Miles...the ultimate one-trick pony.

Broken Arrow
10-19-2005, 02:48 PM
Mitch is my all time favourite drummer. Buddy's dcent though.

magicbus
10-19-2005, 03:27 PM
Mitchell had some pretty amazing fills. He always made Hendrix even more interesting to listen to for me.

Popup-Box
10-19-2005, 04:04 PM
Interesting discussion. I think I will have to explore the albums on which the differen drummers appeared.

PTheory
10-20-2005, 08:56 AM
Band of Gypsies everytime for me, Buddy Miles plays like Tiki Fullwood to me althought Tiki has more feel

Popup-Box
10-20-2005, 09:32 AM
Does it really matter how versatile a drummer is if he's got no precision?

I have no idea on the difference between the drummers myself - I'm just asking after reading a couple of the previous statements.

PinkFreud
10-20-2005, 10:48 AM
yes, i would. but are you implying that mitchell has no precision?

Popup-Box
10-20-2005, 12:31 PM
I just read the last page of posts over again, and realized that my previous message made no sense at all.

I am going to listen to works on which both of the drummers appear, and I'll see whether I notice any difference.

unclebobscircus
10-20-2005, 01:30 PM
Mitch Mitchell wasn't that great of a drummer. He fit perfect in Hendrix's band, and definitely came up with a lot of great drum lines, but he really didn't have the chops to come up with a drum solo or anything (if you listen, whenever he tries to put together a drum solo, it gets really good for a second but he just doesn't have the training to sustain it).

Fatback
10-20-2005, 02:54 PM
I don't really recall an attempt at a drum solo . What recording?
Pretty sure I had 'em all at some time.

PinkFreud
10-20-2005, 03:22 PM
i know i have most of them, im only missing some of the post-death stuff that was released and ive never heard him attempt a drum solo.

Grant
10-20-2005, 03:43 PM
Fatback, for a second I thought you were talking about Miles Davis.

unclebobscircus
10-20-2005, 04:28 PM
I don't really recall an attempt at a drum solo . What recording?
Pretty sure I had 'em all at some time.
You could listen to some live records, or some of the extended jams (like Voodoo Chile).

Ned
10-20-2005, 10:45 PM
How about Hendrix with Jaco Pastorius (and, say, Billy Cobham)?

Fatback
10-20-2005, 10:46 PM
Reponse to unclebobscircus:
I don't think anybodys buying it, Skippy.
"The Experience" wasn't a democracy. It was "The Jimi Show" starring Jimi, produced and directed by Jimi, with a special appearance nightly by Jimi.

Mitch and Noel (talented as they were) were the epitome of "sidemen".

Hendrix92
10-23-2005, 02:39 PM
Mitch was in a band before he joined with Hendrix, and he played smooth jazz with a chello player and pianist at some fancy restaraunt. All he had was a snare and a ride.

Popup-Box
10-26-2005, 08:01 AM
OK - so is there anyone who got a few ideas on which albums that best desribe each of the drummers? I want to explore this a little more.

Any recommendations will be appreciated.

PinkFreud
10-26-2005, 08:09 AM
miles only drums with hendrix on the band of gypsys live album. mitchell drums on all the rest.

Fatback
10-26-2005, 04:04 PM
Are you certain? It seems to me that Buddy might have appeared on First Rays of the New Rising Sun too. I know that Cox shared bass duties on it.
Ezy Rider seems to be stuck in my head as something that sounded like Miles, for instance.
Could be wrong. I was playing an awful lot of chromosome roulette in those days.

PinkFreud
10-26-2005, 08:21 PM
hmm, not sure. i know cox does bass because he stayed with him after band of gypsys, but they went back to mitch, as far as i know.

Fatback
10-26-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm just thinking that there was work released after the live "Band of Gypsies"
that featured Noel, Billy, Mitch AND Buddy (and not just the post-humous stuff)....but like I said, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Popup-Box
10-27-2005, 10:18 AM
Thanks. I now got the information I wanted. Time to finally explore this Hendrix fellow - and his partners - for real.

Popup-Box
11-11-2005, 04:43 PM
As Jimmy Page was a subject for discussion in this thread a while ago, I'll just add that I just watched parts of the live concert The Show Remains The Same. I've read earlier about people describing him as sloppy. Might be, but my admiration for Page did not decrease after watching this show. Now the whole band is great, of course, but as I'm playing guitar myself from time to time, it's natural for me to watch Page especially.

I'll admit he doesn't neccessarily focus on timing for all of his solos. In addition, not all of his notes get much focus. However, he got a certain pace. Technically no Malmsteen, but he's got his own style and that's what I like. He's got a spirit which I have not seen in many other guitarists. There's an extra "spark" which seems to be his characteristic trademark. Also, his creativity seems rather unlimited.

To sum it up. A great guitarist which I'll enjoy more in the future. If I'm feeling for fast, technically perfect soloing, I'll go for Malmsteen or Petrucci. If I want "most other things except technically perfect playing", I will listen to Page. Really inspiring.

Grant
11-12-2005, 06:52 AM
Technically perfect and Malmsteen do not belong in the same sentence.

Fatback
11-12-2005, 02:47 PM
I'd rather listen to somebody play with emotion than a soul-less "guitartron" like Vai or Satriani any day.

Popup-Box
11-12-2005, 04:44 PM
I'd rather listen to somebody play with emotion than a soul-less "guitartron" like Vai or Satriani any day.

Well, Vai is a very bad example if you're going to demonstrate abscence of soul. Watch a live video of For The Love Of God.

However, Vai and Page can't be compared, and Page got his own 'spark'.

Sexypants.
11-12-2005, 06:45 PM
Yeah, maybe on this board. I see too many people going crazy here for Jimmy Page, but compared to Hendrix, he's mediocre. Hendrix, every aspect of his playing is so amazing... his rhythm and lead...
Technically, I think Page MAY have had the upper hand, but just the feeling and groove behind Hendrix makes him so much more likeable and well, cooler :cool:

EDIT: Woa. I didnt realise how big this thread was, I missed a goody.

pipe
11-13-2005, 10:57 AM
Are you certain? It seems to me that Buddy might have appeared on First Rays of the New Rising Sun too. I know that Cox shared bass duties on it.
Ezy Rider seems to be stuck in my head as something that sounded like Miles, for instance.
Could be wrong. I was playing an awful lot of chromosome roulette in those days.

im positive its just mitch on first rays of the new rising sun. just saw the credits on the cd booklet. there are a couple of songs on the record that don't seem like mitch, but it generally feels like him.

Slight Return
11-14-2005, 05:09 PM
I think Mitchell was the perfect counterpart to Hendrix. Also, as far as rhythm goes, Hendrix was one of the best.

Slight Return
11-14-2005, 05:15 PM
Well, Vai is a very bad example if you're going to demonstrate abscence of soul. Watch a live video of For The Love Of God.

However, Vai and Page can't be compared, and Page got his own 'spark'.
Don't forget Blue Powder.

rhcp pman
11-17-2005, 07:19 PM
I'd rather listen to somebody play with emotion than a soul-less "guitartron" like Vai or Satriani any day.
Are you kidding???? I take it you've never heard Satriani. The reason Satriani is so revered is *because* he's a great songwriter!!! Yes, he is quite technical, but his songwriting is very good and most definitely not soul-less. You can get a non-guitar/music person to listen to a Satriani album, and they'll actually like it - and that's quite an achievement with a solo guitarist album.
As for Vai, I haven't heard that much from him; but from the songs that I have heard, he is anything *but* soul less.
I really think you're trying to make a point that you prefer songwriting over technicality (fair enough), but you're using examples of technical virtuosos whom you probably haven't listened to. I could understand if you thought Malmsteen had no emotion, but Satriani and Vai...

Ned
11-18-2005, 12:43 AM
I've heard Satriani once. He'd played an instrumental tune he wrote himself. The tune was trite, simplistic, and compositionally incompetent. As for the playing: "guitartron" is as good a single-word description as any. I never heard Vai do anything but play fast.

The best rock guitarists were Hendrix, Clapton, and Santana. No one ever played rock guitar with more soul than Carlos Santana.

There are several reasons I would never call Page's playing soulful. One is that Plant, Page, and Bonham were most of the time over-the-top, and over-the-top is insincere, not soulful. Another is that Page's tone-quality was bad (as I've pointed out five thousand times already). I can't see how you can play soulfully without ever listening to the sound you make.

Be that as it may, Page has no connection to jazz and DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS FORUM, so let's shut up about him already.

Popup-Box
11-18-2005, 05:50 AM
OK - as this thread has developed into one which drifts around several topics...

Has Santana participated in any jazz oriented projects? If so, I'm very interested in listening. I agree that this man knows what soul is about. I also think his use of the Dorian mode is interesting. I'm still quite new to the Dorian mode, so he's one I should study.

It strikes me that almost every Santana song I listen to seems to be based on the Dorian mode. Is this a result of me listening to the 'stereotype' songs only, or does he actually use mainly the Dorian mode? How about the Phrygian mode or natural minor? Which of these scales appear most often in his songs; I take it for granted that both have appeared at least once, despite the fact that he obviously is an all-out Dorian fan, so to speak.

I once found a recording of Santana with Stevie Ray Vaughan, and also one with Phish. I like the man, but I still don't know that much about him, except for a few songs as well as a couple of TV appearances.

Any inputs?

PinkFreud
11-18-2005, 02:09 PM
I've heard Satriani once. He'd played an instrumental tune he wrote himself. The tune was trite, simplistic, and compositionally incompetent. As for the playing: "guitartron" is as good a single-word description as any. I never heard Vai do anything but play fast.

The best rock guitarists were Hendrix, Clapton, and Santana. No one ever played rock guitar with more soul than Carlos Santana.

There are several reasons I would never call Page's playing soulful. One is that Plant, Page, and Bonham were most of the time over-the-top, and over-the-top is insincere, not soulful. Another is that Page's tone-quality was bad (as I've pointed out five thousand times already). I can't see how you can play soulfully without ever listening to the sound you make.

Be that as it may, Page has no connection to jazz and DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS FORUM, so let's shut up about him already.

i would agree with you about page, but vai actually does play with a lot of soul. for example, the song ""for the love of god" is quite emotional, while still being technical.

i'm going to add jeff beck to your list of best rock guitarists because he eclipses the talent and rivals the soul of the three you listed. i'm not going to say that he has the same songwriting talent because i know he doesn't. but i would definitely still list him among the best.

popupbox, santana did an album with john mclaughlin, the guitarist for the mahavishnu orchestra. its something of a tribute to john coltrane. quite soulful and fusion-y.

Lydisk
11-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Ned: i suggest you listen to some more Vai. he has really unique phrasing and his usage of the guitars whammy bar is really impressive, its like his guitar is talking. shame he isnt a good composer.

IMO joe satriani sucks and is a "guitartron"

F33DBACK
11-18-2005, 02:40 PM
Hendrix is better then Page hands down.

I like musicians that changes his songs every different concert. Like Red House, I heard maybe 5 different versions to this day. Jimmy Page, he's a good writter. I like he's songs, but if he could play them better live, would make him a better guitarist. Stairway To Heaven, everytime I heard his solo live, you can really see he's missing something...he's trying to do too much..Only Hendrix can solo more than 5 mins. without getting bored and repeating himself.

Hendrix is the king of guitar, and he'll always gonna be the king of guitar.

moogoogaipan
11-18-2005, 03:02 PM
guys...were getting bogged down with the Hendrix vs Page argument.

Isn't it really all about Johnny Guitar Watson :D

Popup-Box
11-18-2005, 05:23 PM
Santana and MacLaughlin together - I got to find out more about this.

A note about Satriani and Vai: I like both, and have listened to quite an amount of songs by each of them. They're definately among my favourites.

However, I can not see how someone can say Satriani is a "guitartron" but not Vai (or the other way around)? Maybe I have not listened to enough songs, but to they really differ that greatly? I mean; enough difference for saying one is a guitartron/soulles player/nothing-but-a-technique-wizard while the other is not? My impression after a few years of listening is that they sound quite similar if you got a certain perspective on it.

Fatback
11-18-2005, 06:22 PM
My opinion is merely that:
MY opinion. I still say that guys like Vai and Satriani don't play with REAL soul. They play the hell out of what they have heard other guys with soul play but over-embellish it. And it's not a thing that only affects white dudes. Wynton Marsalis is the same way.
I'm an old white brother and have more soul in me than Wynton.
Vai and Sat?
PUHLEASE!

Fatback
11-18-2005, 06:24 PM
popupbox, santana did an album with john mclaughlin, the guitarist for the mahavishnu orchestra. its something of a tribute to john coltrane. quite soulful and fusion-y.
Great cover on that old album....with John appearing to want to be Santana's "sensei".
Good stuff, though.

Popup-Box
11-19-2005, 12:44 PM
My opinion is merely that:
MY opinion. I still say that guys like Vai and Satriani don't play with REAL soul. They play the hell out of what they have heard other guys with soul play but over-embellish it. And it's not a thing that only affects white dudes. Wynton Marsalis is the same way.
I'm an old white brother and have more soul in me than Wynton.
Vai and Sat?
PUHLEASE!

And which specific examples would you point out in order to illustrate the differences? When I say examples I mean techniques/qualities which claim lack of soul - or maybe songs in which 'absence of soul' dominates?

Is there a coherence between good technique and lack of soul? I'm just asking. If so, where is the line drawn? Eddie Van Halen? He's got a fairly good technique - maybe not as good as Malmsteen -, how about his soul?

starless and bible black
11-19-2005, 01:02 PM
.Only Hendrix can solo more than 5 mins. without getting bored and repeating himself.
Wowz. You need to listen to listen to some more guitarists.

F33DBACK
11-19-2005, 01:04 PM
Wowz. You need to listen to listen to some more guitarists.

bah. I've heard alot of guitarist..don't you worry. I just have a lot of respect for Hendrix.

PinkFreud
11-19-2005, 09:23 PM
Santana and MacLaughlin together - I got to find out more about this.

A note about Satriani and Vai: I like both, and have listened to quite an amount of songs by each of them. They're definately among my favourites.

However, I can not see how someone can say Satriani is a "guitartron" but not Vai (or the other way around)? Maybe I have not listened to enough songs, but to they really differ that greatly? I mean; enough difference for saying one is a guitartron/soulles player/nothing-but-a-technique-wizard while the other is not? My impression after a few years of listening is that they sound quite similar if you got a certain perspective on it.
they are quite different. vai is superior in technique and he puts more feel into. it seems like he has more of a feel for the music and where it goes. he's also more experimental.

popupbox, there's a lot of good covers on that album. and i agree, mclaughlin brings out the best in santana. his technique appears to be leaps and bounds above what he usually puts out.

(*The Noonward Race*)
11-19-2005, 09:39 PM
Technically perfect and Malmsteen do not belong in the same sentence.
What, about, as in, not.

rhcp pman
11-20-2005, 02:25 AM
I've heard Satriani once. He'd played an instrumental tune he wrote himself. The tune was trite, simplistic, and compositionally incompetent. As for the playing: "guitartron" is as good a single-word description as any. I never heard Vai do anything but play fast.

The best rock guitarists were Hendrix, Clapton, and Santana. No one ever played rock guitar with more soul than Carlos Santana.

There are several reasons I would never call Page's playing soulful. One is that Plant, Page, and Bonham were most of the time over-the-top, and over-the-top is insincere, not soulful. Another is that Page's tone-quality was bad (as I've pointed out five thousand times already). I can't see how you can play soulfully without ever listening to the sound you make.

Be that as it may, Page has no connection to jazz and DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS FORUM, so let's shut up about him already.
You should probably hear more Satriani first. Maybe the Surfing With The Alien or Strange Beautiful Music albums. But not just 1 or 2 songs; whole albums.
He makes good use of his bassist too :). He hates technical practice unless it actually sounds good.
I can see how Vai might seem like that. You see, I didn't really like Tender Surrender that much till I actually saw the video of Vai playing it and how much emotion he pours into it. I guess I kind of connected to his level of emotion, and listened to it from his perspective, because Tender Surrender seems full of emotion to me nowadays. So it's good to watch the video.
I like Santana a lot, but I think his playing can get repetitive, even if it does fuse a lot of genres. I know crap all music theory (I kinda have my own music theory), but it seems as if Santana plays around the same scale too often (for want of better jargon).

Fatback
11-20-2005, 01:55 PM
And which specific examples would you point out in order to illustrate the differences? When I say examples I mean techniques/qualities which claim lack of soul - or maybe songs in which 'absence of soul' dominates?

Is there a coherence between good technique and lack of soul? I'm just asking. If so, where is the line drawn? Eddie Van Halen? He's got a fairly good technique - maybe not as good as Malmsteen -, how about his soul?

Let me start by saying that I know you are asking an honest question and not trying to be a smart-***..... and I'm not attempting to be "cosmic' or dodge the question with this reply.
IMO, music is a way to share ideas and emotions that can't always be explained with words.
Just as with the thread about "what makes something funky", this question of soul may be one you can't answer. It is in fact, one of those times where, If you have to ask you may never know.
I am not trying to be smug.
I am a musician. I don't display my 'funkiness' by walking like a pimp. I display it by laying down a groove that makes the little girls unable to stop their asses from shaking. Hard to articulate...impossible to resist.

(I think that Eddie tries and succeeds often to get across some REAL emotion. I can feel a dark side to him...a side that is sometimes angry and sometimes frustrated. What I usually get from guys like Vai and Satriani is the message, "Look at me! I'm just BITCHIN'!!)

DuckinFutch
11-25-2005, 10:26 PM
Hey, I "legally ambiguosly" obtained a song called

Blues Jam #2 part 2, which is supposedly by Hendrix and BB King. Is this for real?

It sounds like him, and I know he was going to go into blues and stuff towards the end, but did he really ever jam with BB?

Just wondering whether this is the real deal or not...

Fatback
11-25-2005, 11:37 PM
I never heard about such a summit.
I have been to B.B.'s home in Vegas and somebody mentioned Jimi.
Mr. King never mentioned jamming with him. It seems as if he would've.

Popup-Box
11-26-2005, 11:23 AM
Let me start by saying that I know you are asking an honest question and not trying to be a smart-***..... and I'm not attempting to be "cosmic' or dodge the question with this reply.
IMO, music is a way to share ideas and emotions that can't always be explained with words.
Just as with the thread about "what makes something funky", this question of soul may be one you can't answer. It is in fact, one of those times where, If you have to ask you may never know.
I am not trying to be smug.
I am a musician. I don't display my 'funkiness' by walking like a pimp. I display it by laying down a groove that makes the little girls unable to stop their asses from shaking. Hard to articulate...impossible to resist.

(I think that Eddie tries and succeeds often to get across some REAL emotion. I can feel a dark side to him...a side that is sometimes angry and sometimes frustrated. What I usually get from guys like Vai and Satriani is the message, "Look at me! I'm just BITCHIN'!!)

I see (I couldn't prevent laughing when reading your sentence about displaying funkiness by walking like a pimp).

Compared to many guitarists they might seem like 'nothing-else-but-technical-wizard-guitarists', however they do have many songs in which I definately find several references to 'emotion'.

I've seen a concert of Van Halen on television, as well as listened to many songs, and I got to say that if you think Satriani or Vai play just for showing off sometimes; would it be unreasonable saying the same is valid for Van Halen?
I'm not saying any of these guitarists lack soul by the way, I'm trying to see it from another perspective.

Fatback
11-26-2005, 12:20 PM
I've seen a concert of Van Halen on television, as well as listened to many songs, and I got to say that if you think Satriani or Vai play just for showing off sometimes; would it be unreasonable saying the same is valid for Van Halen?

Not sure that this has much to do with "soul" or the lack of it but here's my take:
ANY of us that play for a living have, on occasion, OVER-played to impress that hot chick in row three or the one making sure we notice her on the dance-floor.
Eddie certainly does his share of shredding. The solo he did for "Beat It" is almost cartoonish.
I think it is the rare exceptional musician that plays EXACTLY what the music calls for and no more. The guy that can seperate his ego entirely and just try to add the precise emotion to the piece is a true "artist". (What an over-used word THAT is!)

Popup-Box
11-26-2005, 03:08 PM
OK - so where do you place Mr. Van Halen compared to Satriani and Vai, for instance?

Fatback
11-26-2005, 03:39 PM
Satriani and Vai seem almost savant-like to me. Van Halen seems to have a little more feel for whatever that "thing" is that translates into commercial success.
All great players.
All really "cute".(although Eddie better cool it with the Jack Daniels)
All getting laid WAAAAAAY more than me.
I hate 'em all.:lol:

Slight Return
11-26-2005, 03:57 PM
Eddie Van Halen is exceptional. My friend is REALLY into him and I've only heard a small amount of his work, but it is very good. He plays with a lot of emotion imo.

I got my bootleg Hendrix DVD's the other day =D

Popup-Box
11-26-2005, 05:41 PM
All great players.
All really "cute".(although Eddie better cool it with the Jack Daniels)
All getting laid WAAAAAAY more than me.
I hate 'em all.:lol:

Well, that's an effective change of subject :)

Three lines, new topic; and a fourth line to conclude.

That's the way things are, I guess.

Anyway, I have a DVD of Van Halen. I might watch it over again soon.

DuckinFutch
11-27-2005, 03:12 PM
Hey, I "legally ambiguosly" obtained a song called

Blues Jam #2 part 2, which is supposedly by Hendrix and BB King. Is this for real?

It sounds like him, and I know he was going to go into blues and stuff towards the end, but did he really ever jam with BB?

Just wondering whether this is the real deal or not...

Hey, anyone else know if there's anyway this thing can be real?

And if it's not BB King, could it be with someone else? It sounds a lot like both of their styles, but I really couldn't be sure...

DuckinFutch
11-27-2005, 03:20 PM
sorry about the double post...