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View Full Version : Traditional grip lesson with pictures.


Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 10:29 PM
I know alot of guys often question how trad grip is played out, I thought id take some simple pictures and try and explain it the best I can.

http://elementweb.com/upload/uploads/Trad Grip 1.JPG
http://elementweb.com/upload/uploads/Trad Grip 2.JPG
http://elementweb.com/upload/uploads/Trad Grip 3.JPG
http://elementweb.com/upload/uploads/Trad Grip 4.JPG
http://elementweb.com/upload/uploads/Trad Grip 5.JPG

If you guys have any more questions i'll be glad to answer :cool:

-Jim

xgretschx
09-03-2005, 10:32 PM
that was good jim thanks man.

Juicy_Forlorn
09-03-2005, 10:33 PM
Awesome Jim thanks a bunch! I've always wanted to play trad grip but I never knew how to do it properly. It just looks so much cooler than matched:p

Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 10:35 PM
Cool :cool:

Glad to help, if you have any questions shoot em my way.

Chippy569
09-03-2005, 10:35 PM
holy ****, you have fat sticks.

your hands are very pretty, do you moisturize?

Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 10:37 PM
Haha those are my pad sticks :cool:

Josiah
09-03-2005, 10:37 PM
Ah great illustration!

Det_Nosnip
09-03-2005, 10:39 PM
Very nice, Jim. :cool: Think you could give us some video demonstrations from those same camera angles? One of the most difficult tasks in learning a grip is reacting to, controling, and utilizing the rebound. PS what the hell is your pad sitting on?! :lol:

Plan B.
09-03-2005, 10:40 PM
Looks like a coffee cup, bwahahaha.


This has made me go bust out my pad.

Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 10:41 PM
Haha my styrofoam coffee cup :lol:

Chippy569
09-03-2005, 10:42 PM
jim's avoiding my question... ;)

Det_Nosnip
09-03-2005, 10:42 PM
how does that hold it? I would think it'd knock it over in no time!

Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 10:43 PM
I just sat it on there for the demo.

your hands are very pretty, do you moisturize?
Haha no, if it was a quality picture you could see my hands are pretty worn and callused.

xgretschx
09-03-2005, 10:48 PM
I beleive those stick are fat because they are generaly used for snare drum in a marching band am i right? or are they just fat stick's and i'm making stuff up?

Josiah
09-03-2005, 10:50 PM
The Ralphs are marching sticks. Excellent for pad work.

Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 10:51 PM
Nope your right, their the Ralph Hardimons.

Half Life
09-03-2005, 10:52 PM
Nice Jim. I'm with Plan B. Pad Time! :cool:

Seafroggys
09-03-2005, 10:55 PM
Yeah, they're Ralph Hardiman sticks. Okay, but there's better marching sticks out there, such as the Jim Casellas and the MS2 (all three made by Vic Firth).

They're better when doing pad work since they build up power and speed faster because of the extra weight.

rockindrummer
09-03-2005, 11:14 PM
Sweet jim, That's really helpfull thanks a lot.

Bernie812
09-03-2005, 11:15 PM
im not much of a rudiment, parradidle, pad practicing person, and i know i can go to vic firth and find how to do it all, and i don thave a pad, and i know i can get one from musicanfrines for cheap (after asking you guess what to get) and do it all, and it would highly help with mydrumming/and school band... and im too lazy to do it all... its horrible, i should get a teacher

Massik Kretal
09-03-2005, 11:32 PM
Good tutorial. I wanna get sticks like that. The fattest sticks I have it the metal sized Vic Firths. Is it almost the same thickness?

Rushki Smushki
09-03-2005, 11:38 PM
I actually prefer Traditional Grip, only problem I get is swinging around to the Floor Tom - that can be a annoying and I tend to miss. Besides, I can't really do matched grip because my wrist is recovering from a small fracture, and the cast gets in the way. So, for now... :)

Good lesson, thanks. :thumb:

GhostGrooveMike
09-03-2005, 11:39 PM
You should start makin videos. I'm so glad I started with trad becauseit's a hassle apperantly.

Cheungman
09-03-2005, 11:39 PM
just a comment, your thumb is resting on the second knuckle, i tried it your way ( ill explain ) and not only was it uncomfortable, it was painful even! When im playing trad. grip i place my thumb over the first knuckle, (closest to the nail)or in between the two knuckles, and i feel more control and less strain, fatigue and more comfort.

Double Bass Jim
09-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Everyones hand is different, the important thing is to keep the thumb near/on the index finger it supports the fulcrum.

Half Life
09-03-2005, 11:59 PM
Speaking of which, Jim...when playing with trad, should you keep your thumb resting on the first knuckle of your pointer finger when using the last version of that relaxed grip? I tried that and it feels pretty natural but I wasn't sure if that was right.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 12:06 AM
Yea you can take your thumb off too don't worry about that, but keeping your thumb there is good for moving around keeps the stick under control. The thumbs position on the index finger doesnt really matter much find a spot thats easy to grip. I like it further back and some guys like it closer to the nail whatever works for ya.

Massik Kretal
09-04-2005, 12:09 AM
Nice avatar Jim. Fake spin does rule!

Epiphender
09-04-2005, 12:13 AM
You should glue your practice pad to that cup and then paint the top of the pad so it looks like a mushroom.

A.P
09-04-2005, 12:18 AM
I agree with chippy. You do have some very nice hands jim. I would love to shake it.

Epiphender
09-04-2005, 12:18 AM
I'll shake your hand Jim :naughty:

Half Life
09-04-2005, 12:23 AM
You guys are sick :p


/hurls


















































:lol: :rolleyes:

A.P
09-04-2005, 12:27 AM
I bet jim has nice feet.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 12:29 AM
Alright you fruitcakes wanna stop spamming this up? Keep it on topic will ya?

Epiphender
09-04-2005, 12:32 AM
I bet jim has nice feet.

:eek: Oh my god you guys!! :eek:

A.P
09-04-2005, 12:37 AM
Sorry jim. By the way, you have a big stick.

Last one I swear.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 12:45 AM
Damnit... alright thats it though!

Half Life
09-04-2005, 12:49 AM
Jim's putting his foot down :cool:

Epiphender
09-04-2005, 12:51 AM
Sorry jim. By the way, you have a big stick.

Last one I swear.

Back off you fruit!!!!!!! I bet you're the kind of guy that goes into a public washroom and takes a leak RIGHT NEXT to the only other man in there just so you can lean over and take a peek, you pecker checker you.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 12:53 AM
Alright now thats it!

Anything else off topic will be deleted.

xgretschx
09-04-2005, 12:58 AM
do you think i should pick up a pair of those stick's because th extra weight will help with my pad work? or is it not worth it?

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 12:59 AM
Yea man I LOVE these sticks for pad work, I use em all the time and see good results.

A.P
09-04-2005, 01:02 AM
To get back on topic, I love your stick choice. I use them for practicing all the time.

And theres no reason to get nasty Epiphender it was just a joke.

xgretschx
09-04-2005, 01:05 AM
ok cool next time i take a trip to guitar center ill pick up a pair. anything else you recomend for pad work? or stick wise to try out? It's almost my b-day and they know me at GC so they give me little discounts on my b-day cause im there all the time.

A.P
09-04-2005, 01:06 AM
Do you already have a pad?

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:08 AM
Yea great practice stick, good for warmin' up.

A.P
09-04-2005, 01:09 AM
What kind of pad do you use.

xgretschx
09-04-2005, 01:10 AM
I use the same one DBJ has in the picture. the vic firth. I also have a remo practice pad that i use.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:12 AM
Little 6" firth pad, works great.

A.P
09-04-2005, 01:14 AM
I have a 12" reel feel. I want to get a smaller pad. Do you think I should get the 6" firth?

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:16 AM
Yea it's nice, it's served me just fine.

Can put it anywhere, just like on my coffee cup! :lol:

A.P
09-04-2005, 01:17 AM
Is this it? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/447605/

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:19 AM
Thats the one!

A.P
09-04-2005, 01:21 AM
Ok thanks jim. You the man!

infeef
09-04-2005, 01:26 AM
id get the double sided one

also, with trad grip you might try curling your middle finger in ontop of the stick, it helps get more control, and dont let your thumb and index finger seperate, you lose all control.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:28 AM
Thats not always true ^

You can take your thumb off for more percision finger control, it helps bring the tips of the fingers up onto the top of the stick. Louie bellson can be seen doing that alot.

ilikenoise
09-04-2005, 06:22 AM
Nice instructions.

I've been doing matched for the past few months for kit, every so often I go back to trad. Agh the memories.

I think it's also good to mention to try and keep the 3rd finger elongated along the stick and not curled on top. I was taught the more contact you have with the stick the better your control will be.

P.S. That stick is huge, I want a pair. Here's me thinking my Thomas Lang's were chunky. They're tiny compared to that beast.

Voodoo Rabbit
09-04-2005, 08:06 AM
Nice one Jim,

That's sure to sort some confusion :)...

Massik Kretal
09-04-2005, 08:58 AM
Good tutorial. I wanna get sticks like that. The fattest sticks I have it the metal sized Vic Firths. Is it almost the same thickness?

well....

red n black
09-04-2005, 12:06 PM
If you get better with big sticks. Do you get worse with small sticks (7:s)???

Or do you get better with really small sticks too?

BTW, I've played trad a couple of months now and I love it. Looks much cooler.
I still have troubles with toms and left hand crash hits though, any tips?

infeef
09-04-2005, 12:37 PM
Thats not always true ^

You can take your thumb off for more percision finger control, it helps bring the tips of the fingers up onto the top of the stick. Louie bellson can be seen doing that alot.

iv always found when i let my thumb go the stick just starts bouncing around like crazy. maybe i just stink :(.

hamster
09-04-2005, 12:42 PM
you could be a hand model. :) :p

ilikenoise
09-04-2005, 12:49 PM
If you get better with big sticks. Do you get worse with small sticks (7:s)???

Or do you get better with really small sticks too?

BTW, I've played trad a couple of months now and I love it. Looks much cooler.
I still have troubles with toms and left hand crash hits though, any tips?

Once you playwith bigger sticks you realise that small sticks.. suck. You'll notice when you grip small sticks you over tighten and you try to play but its like feathers, you need some beef.

As for tom hits I've always found it easier with trad, because of the angle of theleftstick pointing inwards.
And as for crash hits, bring your crashes closer, if that means they're in the way of toms or whatever, simply move them upwardsr. Look how high e.g. Thomas Lang's are.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 12:58 PM
Yea it's VERY important you find a stick that taylors to your hand style. Don't play with a certain stick just for the sake of it.

I use the ralphs pictured for pad use only and i've been using SD1's on the drum kit great stick.

red n black
09-04-2005, 01:07 PM
How big are SD1's??? (compared to the Ralph's)

And ilikenoise thats my problem, I hate high crashes. My set is low and tight.
I have a special trad setup, were I have the tom to the left of my main crash and angled to the right, but then I can't play matched cuz then I would penetrate the batter head.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:16 PM
SD1's are pretty big, not as big as ralphs though.

The SD1's are also maple so their light in weight but still thick.

red n black
09-04-2005, 01:31 PM
What make are the SD1's, Jim?

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 01:35 PM
Vic firth

Carn
09-04-2005, 02:28 PM
I swear by the SD2s..a bit thicker than usual, maple, and a round tip. Round tips are a must.

AMAC
09-04-2005, 02:37 PM
So what are the advantages of playing trad. like that?

Epiphender
09-04-2005, 02:44 PM
It gives my blisters some time to heal up without rubbing. :thumb:

xgretschx
09-04-2005, 04:42 PM
^ yeh i ha this hudge one ( form doing yard work) and i forgot about it and it popped while playting it sprayed everywhere well nto on my drums but all on my pads and i had blood stains on my stick's. On my promarks they broke soon after though.

Epiphender
09-04-2005, 06:50 PM
Yep I got a few bloody sticks. I think I grip too hard when I play harder and I'm not conscious of it.

Double Bass Jim
09-04-2005, 07:36 PM
I swear by the SD2s..a bit thicker than usual, maple, and a round tip. Round tips are a must.
Yea thats a real nice stick, i've got a few pairs of those.

Fierce_LiNk
09-05-2005, 03:20 AM
Nice one, DBJ. I'm trying to work on traditional grip at the moment, so this has helped a lot. :)

About drumsticks: To a non-drummer, they would probably think that stuff like what type of drumsticks you use as not important. But, it's amazing that things like the type of sticks you use can affect your playing. Same with things like Tom-angles as well.

Plan B.
09-05-2005, 03:46 AM
Curse you Jim, I bashed myself in the temple last night with my drumstick, while playing on my pad. It hurt SO BAD. It still hurts to press on it, I had to go lay on the couch. What a sensitive area.

ARGH MY TEMPIE.

Epiphender
09-05-2005, 04:05 AM
Hahahaha "tempie" haha.

Double Bass Jim
09-05-2005, 11:31 PM
Bumped one more time incase anyones interested.

Win A Rabbit
09-05-2005, 11:57 PM
thanks jim, i missed this before. i had tried to figure out trad grip on my own before, and i was terrible. now i see why :lol:

i always felt more improvement by using small sticks on pads, because the big sticks tend to have more natural rebound than a light stick. maybe that's just me though? i guess i'll pick up some baseball bats like you've got :lol:

dumbassdrummer
09-06-2005, 12:09 PM
Great stuff, Jim.

"Everyones hand is different, the important thing is to keep the thumb near/on the index finger it supports the fulcrum."

I started using traditional in a Scottish pipe band, and we use our thumb to control the motion of the stick. For example, take the 4th picture, and move your thumb on top of the stick. Use your arm/wrist to hit the drum to get momentum and then use the thumb to keep the momentum going. The most important thing is to stay relaxed.

If you do it right, you should be able to keep the stick moving without having any of the other fingers even touching the stick. I recomend trying to find a video of someone doing this (Jim Kilpatrick is one master of the style) because this is a little hard to understand without seeing it done.


"Once you playwith bigger sticks you realise that small sticks.. suck. You'll notice when you grip small sticks you over tighten and you try to play but its like feathers, you need some beef."

Have you ever seen the Elvin Jones signature stick? small. very. Have you ever seen him play? Relaxed. very.
Small sticks are just as good as big ones - it all depends on what you play and how you play it. Some folks prefer big sticks, some small ones. Some music calls for a smaller stick some a bigger one for practical reasons. Your broad generalization doesn't work.

ilikenoise
09-06-2005, 01:30 PM
"Once you playwith bigger sticks you realise that small sticks.. suck. You'll notice when you grip small sticks you over tighten and you try to play but its like feathers, you need some beef."

Have you ever seen the Elvin Jones signature stick? small. very. Have you ever seen him play? Relaxed. very.
Small sticks are just as good as big ones - it all depends on what you play and how you play it. Some folks prefer big sticks, some small ones. Some music calls for a smaller stick some a bigger one for practical reasons. Your broad generalization doesn't work.

I was generalising my experience. I now hate light sticks.

drumbum562
09-06-2005, 01:43 PM
Nope your right, their the Ralph Hardimons.

Those sticks are great

J0llyhunter
09-06-2005, 02:13 PM
hey jim, are your palms facing up like 0 degrees or do you tilt it a bit?

Double Bass Jim
09-06-2005, 03:05 PM
I started using traditional in a Scottish pipe band, and we use our thumb to control the motion of the stick.
Yea i've heard from alot of pipe band guys and they do that very same thing, if you can use your thumb in that way GO FOR IT! I myself have always been a finger player in trad and matched grip. I had a video demonstrating a thumb stroke i'll have to find it.

hey jim, are your palms facing up like 0 degrees or do you tilt it a bit?
My hand is titled a bit, my palm will be facing more upward on rimshots.

Voodoo Rabbit
09-06-2005, 03:09 PM
I was in a class on Monday, and this little boy sat down near where I was and took out his sticks, and he had the most sloppiest Traditional Grip I have ever seen...

I shouldn't be one to judge, but it was all weird...

3_times_round
09-06-2005, 03:45 PM
Jim, can you possibly show me how you back stick with Trad? I can't quite do it, it's really frsutrating. When I was in a Pipe Band we had a back-sticking rythtym, and my left hand always let me down.

Can you do tricks with Trad.? ie, spin left stick in the air and catch it again. If I can be bothered, I might post some of my Trad. pad playing one day...

My typing is awful tonight, sorry about any mistakes...

dpakman91
09-06-2005, 04:41 PM
when you guys says small sticks...would a 5a be considered small or big?

Win A Rabbit
09-06-2005, 05:06 PM
i'd consider 5a medium. 7 would be small, and 2 would be large.

dumbassdrummer
09-06-2005, 07:22 PM
"I myself have always been a finger player in trad and matched grip."

It's tough to get the thumb thing down on kit, and immpossible to do it as freely as you would in pipe drumming (tension of a marching snare vs. toms). Though, you can use it if you apply a little more wrist and arm.

Personally, I've found that it really helps with staying loose (Scottish drumming is all about staying loose), improving control (use of the thumb builds it up a great deal, and has added control for me), and imrpoves buzz rolls (they are the primary role in pipe music, so you really work them alot).

I would put up a video but all of mine are on VHS.

"I was generalising my experience. I now hate light sticks."

I hate large sticks. I imagine it's just getting used to something.

styler
11-29-2005, 08:51 PM
well as i think this is an amazing thread, and because i bookmarked for when i have a question like this..but dbj what do you do with your bottom fingers (ring finger and pinky) i find there just kind of under my stick and they get hit by the stick every once in awhile, anything specific im doing wrong?

infeef
11-29-2005, 09:56 PM
Jim, can you possibly show me how you back stick with Trad? I can't quite do it, it's really frsutrating. When I was in a Pipe Band we had a back-sticking rythtym, and my left hand always let me down.

Can you do tricks with Trad.? ie, spin left stick in the air and catch it again. If I can be bothered, I might post some of my Trad. pad playing one day...

My typing is awful tonight, sorry about any mistakes...

to backstick using trad you flip the butt of the stick over the top of your hand as you flip your hand over and hit the head with it, its almost like switching to matched but keep your fingers like they would be for traditional. Jeff Queen has some great videos on VicFirth.com on this very subject.

you can do loads of tricks with traditional, alot of them are the same as for matched just modified and some are different, i wouldnt be able to explain the ones i know, but fiddle around and ask people you know about it.