Hmm.. what chord would this be?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Hey all, a friend sent me the best progression I've ever heard in my life, and I named all the chords successfully except for this last one:

The notes are E, B, D# and A.

My friend said it would be Emaj7add11, but I disagree.

A while ago I was told that the fifth was the only degree of a chord that could be omitted, and that the third couldn't.

For it to be Emaj7add11, wouldn't it have to have a G#? Or can I call it Emaj7sus4?

What I called it was B7add4/E, when you think about it...

'Cause if we say it's Bmaj, then we have our third (D#).

What is it?

[Beef Javelin]

The closest I've seen to that is E7sus11, which is E B D A.




I tried :upset:

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Thanks, :p

[stevenvdb]

B7add4/E indeeds sounds better than Emaj7add1 because it has both the third and the seventh.
However, I would just write B7/E, as add4 is the same note as E.

But of course you should look at the whole progression an look at the function of this chord in it!

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Well, the progression goes like this:

Emadd9 - Gmaj7 - Fminadd4 - [...]

[stevenvdb]

Then I would call it B7/E, as B7 is the dominant of Em

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Then I was right... :cool:

[Ned]

A while ago I was told that the fifth was the only degree of a chord that could be omitted, and that the third couldn't.

That's not quite right. The fifth is the degree most likely to be omitted in traditional (common-practice period) music (assuming it's a perfect fifth from the root, not a diminished or augmented fifth), and is the omitted degree least likely to distort the sound and function of a traditional chord, but you may very well want that function distorted. Moreover, degrees other than the fifth are commonly omitted even in traditional music, including the root itself, just not AS frequently as the fifth.

What I called it was B7add4/E, when you think about it...'Cause if we say it's Bmaj, then we have our third (D#).

What is it?

If it were preceded by or followed by a chord with an E in the bass, then the E in this chord could be considered a pedal point, otherwise there are two ways of looking at it: 1) It could be an Aadd9#11 with third omitted or 2) a B7sus4 with note of resolution included. Unless the E is a pedal point, this is obviously a post-common-practice chord. That wouldn't make it impervious to the "rules"--the underlying principles are still valid--, but it would mean the "rules" would have to extended to account for it.)

[Ned]

Then I would call it B7/E, as B7 is the dominant of Em


You are assuming the chord progression cycles (that the chord in question moves to the first chord). If this assumption is correct (God hasn't said), then the E in the chord in question would indeed be a traditional chord with a pedal point, although ideally (traditionally speaking, that is) it should also be prepared by an harmonic tone, which is to say that the chord in question should be preceded by a chord that also has an E in the bass.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

It does indeed cycle to the first chord.

Can I just ask, what is a "pedal point"?

And thanks.

[stevenvdb]

Maybe you know it as an organ point.
It is a bass note of undefined length, most of the time at the end of a composition.
Above this bass note you can have harmonies that are dissonant with the pedal point.

But I agree with Ned when he says this is a post-common-practice chord, and it doesn't strictly follow all rules.

[Ned]

It does indeed cycle to the first chord.

Can I just ask, what is a "pedal point"?

And thanks.

It's a kind of "non-harmonic" tone, which means non-chord tone, a melody note not contained in the chord. If all the melody notes were contained in the chord, the music would tend to be fairly boring. Non-harmonic tones create tension, and thus interest, by disagreeing with the chord. The disagreement is only temporary, however. So that the music does not seem chaotic, it is necessary that the non-harmonic tone behave in some kind of logical manner, and it will usually eventually move to a chord tone. This is called "resolution", i. e., relieving the tension. Most non-harmonic tones have notes of preparation as well as notes of resolution. Theorists have labeled various non-harmonic tones according to the specific way each behaves. A "passing tone", for example, passes stepwise between two chord tones. If an E-F-G melodic passage occurred above a C major triad, then the F would be a passing tone. The E would be the note of preparation, and the G would be the note of resolution. The classic pedal point non-harmonic tone formula requires three chords, one for the note of preparation, one for the actual pedal point non-harmonic tone, and one for the note of resolution. The pedal point most often occurs in the bass voice (hence the name), but can occur in any voice. If we had the progression Em-B7/E-Em (assuming both Em triads are in root position), then the root of the first Em triad would be the note of preparation, the E of B7/E would be the pedal point non-harmonic tone, and the root of the second Em triad would be the note of resolution.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Ah, yes, I knew what non-harmonic tones and the like were, I had just never heard of them being called "pedal points".

Thanks again for your explanation.

[Ned]

Ah, yes, I knew what non-harmonic tones and the like were, I had just never heard of them being called "pedal points".

Thanks again for your explanation.

Just in case: The pedal point is only one particular kind of non-harmonic tone.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Oh, right /re-reads your post.

I see it now.