David Lucas Burge Perfect Pitch Course

[asanti]

Hey everyone,
I'm new here, i read a few posts about the David Lucas Burge supercourse so i'm starting this thread about it,

i've been working alone in this 'new thing' so it's kind of complicated sometimes to hear those colors (i know it's not about red or blue...) so it would be great if some of you who finished the course or have an idea about it, maybe you could share some tips or suggestions...

By the way, i'm on masterclass 6 (guitar).

[Amit]

um

you can't learn perfect pitch

if you could, then all the top academies and conservatories would be admitting only perfect pitch kids

[asanti]

i think you can develop perfect pitch
i'm working on it, it's all about color hearing!

[miku]

um

you can't learn perfect pitch

if you could, then all the top academies and conservatories would be admitting only perfect pitch kids
That's a common misconception. And I don't know about top academies and conservatories only admitting perfect pitch kids; Even if we didn't have this widespread misconception and more people were aware that it can be developed, one can still be an excellent musician without it. Heck, how about instead of them only admitting perfect pitch kids, they only accept really well-rounded musicians in general (who may or may not have PP), and help the ones who don't have perfect pitch to develop it?
I mean, despite what David Burge might say to the contrary, I think relative pitch is more important than absolute pitch. But that's not to say it's not a great skill to have.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

actually you can learn perfect pitch

[Merkaba]

You can learn it, it just takes time and repetition. I know I dont have it...but I dont think its all that important to know what notes youre singing anyways. If you know what key youre in thats about all I deem is important and trying to figure out what color a note is before you sing it seems too unnatural. Other than that its kinda a good parlor gimmick to be able to say...oh thats an A or G. I've always seen music in colors so the idea is nothing new...and if you dabble in guitar or piano or another instrument you can start to hear notes in music and say...oh I played that cord or that note in such and such song, i know what that note is without looking. After a while you can pick up on alot of notes that way. I used to be interested in it, But I just dont see the point in the course.


I mean, despite what David Burge might say to the contrary, I think relative pitch is more important than absolute pitch. But that's not to say it's not a great skill to have.
Thats what I say

[musicmanjh]

When will people learn that when you act as an authority figure on a topic you know nothing about you only hurt yourself and others. There have now been allot of studies on perfect pitch. Most studies now show that it is possible to gain PP. Luckily I don’t have to get insulted when some one states that perfect pitch cant be learned because I know that it can -- and I just assume that person cant read (Read any scientific study done by a major university and doubt no longer). Here is a good summary on PP http://www.answers.com/perfect%20pitch
But to get on with this. . . . .

asanti: I bought the Relative and Perfect pitch courses. I started with the PP course. Of course, when I first started, I couldn’t hear the "colors" - so I kept working.... when I had to do one of the drills where you play a chord and sing the middle tone - I couldn’t do it.. I worked on it for a long time. I got so frustrated I quit.
So I started working on the Relative Pitch course. Turns out I just didn’t have a good ear- It took me a long time to get through level 1. Then I went back to the PP course. . . .I could now sing the middle note very easily on that drill... infact I started to hear certain feelings in the tones. After I finished level 2 of the RP course I realized that PP could be attained. I was starting to hear "colors" more easily.
So what’s my point? Well, you have to be a good listener. The whole reason David makes you do what seem like relative pitch drills to attain PP is because he’s trying to OPEN your ears. The reality is that it may take a very long time to open your ears. Essentially, you have spent your whole life losing the PP ability. Now you’re trying to get it back... so it will take time. I’m not sure what the average time is... but it took me over 6 months to finish the PP course. It seemed like a hell of a long time to me! But I didn’t skip any drills and I gave it my all. IT PAYED OFF!
PP is a useful tool when it becomes natural. If you had to strain to hear a note it would only be a cool "trick". Over time the notes will just feel right. You won’t have to think " that’s either a c or a g”, you will just KNOW that it’s a G because of its feeling.
Hope that helps a little.... I’m off to Vegas for a couple of days...Allot of the machines are in the key of C - the key of empty wallets

[Knifeboy]

Relative Pitch > perfect pitch

[asanti]

Thanks for sharing your experience Musicman,

I'll keep on working and see what happens, actually, i think i have a good sense of relative pitch even before i started with the course, so is kind of complicated to see any progress.

[jarviss]

dumb question...do the drills actually help you learn to sing?
i mean...what if you could "hear" "feel" "see" the colors/feelings of notes..
but you coulnd't sing worth ****?

i wanna sing! (and sing good...not perfectly...but my voice sucks always)

would any of this help jarviss?

-G

[asanti]

hehe, it would be great...but i think it is something you need to practice, i mean, if i had perfect pitch i won't be playing guitar like hendrix, some things will become easier but with my sing or playing i better keep on with my practice...

[asanti]

Anyone knows about this course??
I started 40 days ago and i still can't see 'real' progress.

You really can gain totally perfect pitch??,

Does it takes too much time??

[miku]

Anyone knows about this course??
I started 40 days ago and i still can't see 'real' progress.

You really can gain totally perfect pitch??,

Does it takes too much time??
It varies from person to person. Just be patient.

[musicmanjh]

Perfect pitch won’t make you a good singer... practice will. You have to have good control over your vocal chords and breathing. At the same time if you had a bad ear, you wouldn’t know if you were singing in tune :)
For me there was a time when I started to hear the "colors". Sort of like taking a long walk up a hill and reaching a place where you can start to see over it. From that point on I could here more and more clearly.

[asanti]

ok Miku thanks
The thing is that i'm doing the exercises every day and i also stay like half an hour every night listening to the whole cromatic scale, i hear how the string vibrates, the harmonics of each note but i can't hear something new for me... :upset:...and believe me, i do listen to the notes
Am i doing something wrong?
What is the thing that i should be listening?
I'm getting crazy here!! (joke) :D

[musicmanjh]

Ill try to help: Make sure your LISTENING and not LISTENING FOR. By that I mean, when your listening to a drill make sure your not anticipating the next note while listening to the current one.
At the same time, try not to keep track of your progress. If you are spending time listening to the drills you are making progresss.
The more relaxed you are and the more focussed your mind is, the sooner youll start to hear the "colors".


The "colors" are EXTREMELY subtle at first. And they are VERY DEEP in the sound of the note. Once you dig in to a note and find its color it starts to rise to the surface more and more.

[asanti]

What are the things you can do with perfect pitch, compared to relative pitch?


Has anyone heard about the absolute pitch power course by Graham English?

[Elcon]

[QUOTE=musicmanjh]

The "colors" are EXTREMELY subtle at first. And they are VERY DEEP in the sound of the note. Once you dig in to a note and find its color it starts to rise to the surface more and more.


Elcon:

So far you have been giving us much motivation and tips to develop Absolute Pitch "musicmanjh". Especially to some of those figures that thought it was not possible to develop at an later age.

Your last words which I added in my post may confuse, disturb and hinder some of our readers in any further progress in developing Absolute Pitch.
Can you see why?

Just listen is the answer.
Not to listen FOR.

Though the word "colors" are not refered to visual colors, people may believe they yet need to "dive in" to the tones to hear aural colors.
Well, we all already hear these colors naturally.
David Lucas only mentions this to let you know that each tone is unique (because of their own individual frequency or "color")

When you say that the "colors" are VERY DEEP in the sound of the tone, what do you think happends?

People will go behind their instrument and try very, very hard to hear INTO the sound so they will maybe, maybe hear these COLORS.

It was and is still not a matter of listening INTO any tone, but just effortless listening.

You see, AP should be an effortless direct perception. If we would "force" ourselfs to hear very attentively to hear these "colors" which are SO deep into sound, then when will we let go of this approach?

I say that the colors are not deep into the sound. Even if they are, it does not matter in this process of developing AP.
It may only disturb or confuse people.

Take care,

Elcon

[miku]

Yeah, the whole thing about colors being "deep within" a tone just means that the color of a note is something seperate from its timbre. The color is right there in plain.. not sight but.. heh yeah. It's just that the timbre is distracting for people starting out trying to develop it. This is why perfect pitch first kicks in for one's primary instrument, then eventually spreads to every instrument.

[asanti]

I've heard from some people who actually did this course telling that if you try to do the course by your own it will be useless, what do you think?

I finished masterclass 6, i can recognise and sing the 3 notes from a 3-note chord within an octave and more but i still can't hear those colors/qualities from the notes. should i go on to the next masterclass?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you say that the "colors" are VERY DEEP in the sound of the tone, what do you think happends?
People will go behind their instrument and try very, very hard to hear INTO the sound so they will maybe, maybe hear these COLORS.
It was and is still not a matter of listening INTO any tone, but just effortless listening.
(posted by Elcon)

That's good question i also have, i wish i could answer it...

[Elcon]

I do not think that these Masterclasses for Solo-players is less good then for Team-players. Why would it? David made seperate exercises for these two groups to do.

As David says, you may always continue to the next MasterClass when you have correctly finished the previous one. He also says that working to much on a MC, when already finished, it may even hinder your progress.

So...Just continue even if you are not sure you really mastered the exercises.

You know, Asanti, you still do not get the clear picture of what is meant by "colors" here, do you?

You just said yourself that you are able to distinguish 3 tones played harmonically, by singing and identifying them. If you were not able to hear these colors of each of these 3 tones, then how do you explain telling them apart?

The tone you hear IS the color already.
But if you doubt that, you will get it sooner or later with practice.

I guess David Lucas means to say that whenever you have developed Absolute Pitch you hear these colors correctly.

Well, I say that when you have developed Absolute Pitch, you can discriminate these colors by direct perception without a reference tone ofcourse.

Take care,

Elcon

[asanti]

You know, Asanti, you still do not get the clear picture of what is meant by "colors" here, do you?

You just said yourself that you are able to distinguish 3 tones played harmonically, by singing and identifying them. If you were not able to hear these colors of each of these 3 tones, then how do you explain telling them apart?

The tone you hear IS the color already.
But if you doubt that, you will get it sooner or later with practice.

I know what is meant by 'colors', it's not red or blue, it's a certain quality. I known i can hear the different tones but i can't hear their colors/qualities.
the other thing is that i can sing those three notes but i don't have any idea which tones are they, i mean, if i'm not looking at the fretboard i don't know what tones are they, but i can hear the three of them, now what i mean?

Ok, so the tone i hear is the color already but, how does it sound that color? That's the thing i still can't hear...

Thanks Elcon for your answer! :wave:

[Merkaba]

hell, when i say color i mean color...like bminor being blue. D minor sounds kinda greyish blue, etc...

[Elcon]

[QUOTE=asanti]
I know what is meant by 'colors', it's not red or blue, it's a certain quality. I known i can hear the different tones but i can't hear their colors/qualities.

Elcon:

You can hear the different tones, but you cannot hear their colors/qualities.

How do I say...

You are trying to argue not with me, but basically with yourself here. So here I will just interfere with your own made arguement.

What do you believe the quality is in relationship to sound?

I will not use the word color anymore, before you will tell me that you know it is not about blue or red. Done that already!

Maybe I will understand you better, if you can explain your definition of qualities in tones to me. Then I, in turn, may explain to you what it is all about.

Because I wonder what it is you, Asanti, want to hear in tone that you are already hearing.

Take care,

Elcon

[asanti]

[QUOTE=asanti]
I know what is meant by 'colors', it's not red or blue, it's a certain quality. I known i can hear the different tones but i can't hear their colors/qualities.

Elcon:

You can hear the different tones, but you cannot hear their colors/qualities.

How do I say...

You are trying to argue not with me, but basically with yourself here. So here I will just interfere with your own made arguement.

What do you believe the quality is in relationship to sound?

I will not use the word color anymore, before you will tell me that you know it is not about blue or red. Done that already!

Maybe I will understand you better, if you can explain your definition of qualities in tones to me. Then I, in turn, may explain to you what it is all about.

Because I wonder what it is you, Asanti, want to hear in tone that you are already hearing.

Take care,

Elcon

Hey,

I'll try to explain what i know about tone color/quality from what i heard in the beggining of the course (i think is masterclass 1,2,3 and 4).
Ok, what i know (doesn't mean i can hear it) is that every note has its own vibration, C C# D......etc.., like when Mr. Burge says FA# sounds twangy, vibrant, Eb sounds like mellow, etc... When you can hear the notes vibrations is when you hear in a abstract way their colors/qualities (ej, twangy, mellow, etc.)
That's what i know, but i still can hear them! :upset:

It was this what you want me to explain?
:)

[musicmanjh]

Im in the mood for more abuse. So I thought I would post here again. Let me explain what I said before:

"The "colors" are EXTREMELY subtle at first. And they are VERY DEEP in the sound of the note. Once you dig in to a note and find its color it starts to rise to the surface more and more."

If you don’t have perfect pitch the "colors" ARE NOT on the surface to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I understand that allot of people have truly listened for any difference between tones and found none. They are SUBTLE, but once identified the mind doesn’t ignore them anymore and they seem to "rise to the surface more and more. At this point, YES. They are on the surface to YOUR ear.

I understand that when I said "they are very deep in the sound", it came across confusing. Perfect pitch is a very abstract idea. Trying to explain it is very hard. This is what I meant: If you played a chord for some one with no musical training and asked them to sing a note they heard, they would probably sing the 5th. They may sing the root. Most likely they wouldn’t sing the 3rd. Although the 3rd determines if a chord is minor or major, the ear latches on to the top or bottom note. With some training, the ear can dive into a chord and bring out the 3rd. Soon, the 3rd is heard as clearly as the 5th and root. So by "deep in the sound" I meant: past what we already hear. Once your mind identifies the "color" of a note, it becomes more obvious.
This is just an example, not instructions of any kind. The key to attaining PP is to JUST LISTEN. Everything I mentioned will happen naturally. And since it is so abstract. When you attain PP, you’ll probably explain it completely different!

As far as the "colors" not being actual colors: We already talked about this on another post that spawned this post. I didn’t think to reiterate this here.

[SRVFan2005]

Color Hearing is a bad title in my opinion. I think of it as more of distinguishing the tones. Basically, instead of memorizing what a 440 A sounds like it tells you assign, within yourself a color that matches the feeling for it. For example I use the spectrum of visible light - Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet (ROY G BIV). Then I knew C was green because it's bright and vibrate and stands out and so was F which I assigned to Red. So I had F, E, D, C, B, A, G or FED C BAG. So then from there I use that to assign colors. Now once you have that set up mentally, start testing your perceptions. I would play a D and right away, I would see a yellowish flash. So then I recorded me playing, and wrote it down. Walked away and tested this. Then I named the notes. Unfortunately, I am still about a half step off with chords and notes within songs, so I need to hold back my frustrations on that and work it more and more.

For the record, I was told in 4th grade I was tone-deaf and now I am nearly to perfect pitch. I can hear As, Cs, and Fs right off.

[Alive]

Whats actually on the CDs, in the books? How much material is there?

[musicmanjh]

It comes with 8 cds that contain 24 master classes. The course starts out with an introductory phase (classes 1-4). Then on to phase one (classes5-12) which is the preparatory phase. This phase helps open your ears. Phase 2 (classes 13-23) is were the pitch color discrimination comes in. Then phase 3 (class 24) is the "advanced level" and the end of the course.

There really is no set point in the course were you will attain perfect pitch. For some it happens as soon as you’re told how to listen, and for others it may be close to the end of the course. Even when you finish the course your PP won’t be as strong as someone who has had PP their whole life.

This course will open your ears - practice will perfect PP. So basically this whole course teaches you how to listen. It’s up to you to keep developing the skill after finishing the course. David Lucas even recommends keeping a tuning fork with you and testing yourself regularly until your ear becomes fully confident.

[asanti]

There really is no set point in the course were you will attain perfect pitch. For some it happens as soon as you’re told how to listen, and for others it may be close to the end of the course. Even when you finish the course your PP won’t be as strong as someone who has had PP their whole life.

I'm glad to hear that, i was worried about when i should start to hear those colors...:thumb:

Did you gain perfect pitch thanks to this course?
How much time it took you til you started to listen to notes colors/qualities?

I'm still going on with masterclass 7, doing the drills and the meditation techniques (what is it for?)

[Peg Dizzler]

I found copies of this on a p2p program, but not all of them... there's 24 lessons?

[musicmanjh]

Yes I did Asanti. My first time listening to the course i couldnt get very far. I couldnt do some of the drills. So i started working on his Relative pitch course. After passing his level 1 RP course my ear became allot more "open". Later on I went back to the PP course and found it much easier.
It took me a while to really gain PP, though the beginning of PP came within a month or so after i started my 2nd atempt. By that I mean, I started to hear "something" that excited me. Right now, Asanti, you are just in the warm up section... so you need to calm down lol you sound so stressed! You need to be calm so your ear will be open.
Every drill has a purpose! Dont skip any! Thats a problem allot of people have with this course who download via P2P. They get random lessons all out of order and it doesnt seem to help - so they label the course a scam. CDoasis if your going to steal the course atleast do yourself a favor and steal all 24 lessons lol
Here was my PP experience: during the drills I did hear little quirks (i refuse to use the word "color" now) in the tones that told me what note I was listening too, but also found that a point came that when listening to a song and a certain note was played, instantly, in my head I thought, " thats a B!". So i would run to my guitar and sure enough it was a b. There was no straining or listening for quirks- my ear just knew. At first this didnt happen all the time though.
So it was as if I was having 2 different experiences: 1 was practicing the drill and listening for "quirks" in the tones. The 2nd was random, instant "knowing" when casually listening to music. There seemed to be a big casm between these too experiences that shrank as I kept progressing through the PP course. Now today, 2 years after I first started training my ear, when I hear a C I just know its a C. I dont listen for vibrations or duration like some people have claimed you do.
And my ear still has its weaknesses. Im not very good with my PP when it comes to brass instruments. Thats mainly because I dont listen to them allot. So their raspy reed sound throughs me off lol.

[Elcon]

I have a question for you "musicmanjh",

First, what is the name you go by other then "musicmanjh"?
I would like to know your name or maybe anything but "musicmanjh" I guess.

Second, I never seemed to have much trouble on the PP course of David Lucas, but I always seem to fail on MC 22. How did you go through it and how long did it took you to do so?

You might think I am getting silly as it is only my fifth day working on MC 22, but I have not become better since day two. I am stuck and not progressing anymore. It is kind of frustrating.

I got so far with my ear. Already in just these few days working on this MC, I seem to hear tones differently.
Sometimes it is like I could name them, if I only knew them :)

I am asking you, "musicmanjh" or any other person that got all the way through David Lucas PP course.

The other thing to all you others...

This guy, musicmanjh, does know what he is talking about. He IS right about the colors and stuff.
Asanti, chill out! You'll get, when you get it.

So, let me know. Maybe you can help me out on this thing.

Take care,

Elcon

[SRVFan2005]

Due to the hurricane, I have no power during the day, and a generator for one room at night, so I can't play at night. I made it a point to read this article on Figureing tunes out by ear: Article (http://www.guitarists.net/lessons/view.php?id=7) .

And I noticed the bit where it said to just be able to play what's in your head. And I tried Mary Had a Little Lamb. I use the method with little success and just tried to improvise when I heard a melody similar to it and worked about 5 minutes to figure the song by ear. A major accomplishment to me when I was told I was tone deaf. Needless to say, I felt great. As soon as the power is on, I'll be able to use my Guitar Trainer and work on a few more albums with this technique.

That site as a whole is GREAT. It's my homepage now. A wealth of information.

EDIT: Also, don't advance so fast. He suggests one a day but if it takes you one a week, do it. I just found they got too monotous to finish and I made my own system which works the same way.

[asanti]

I have a question for you "musicmanjh",

First, what is the name you go by other then "musicmanjh"?
I would like to know your name or maybe anything but "musicmanjh" I guess.

Second, I never seemed to have much trouble on the PP course of David Lucas, but I always seem to fail on MC 22. How did you go through it and how long did it took you to do so?

You might think I am getting silly as it is only my fifth day working on MC 22, but I have not become better since day two. I am stuck and not progressing anymore. It is kind of frustrating.

I got so far with my ear. Already in just these few days working on this MC, I seem to hear tones differently.
Sometimes it is like I could name them, if I only knew them :)

I am asking you, "musicmanjh" or any other person that got all the way through David Lucas PP course.

The other thing to all you others...

This guy, musicmanjh, does know what he is talking about. He IS right about the colors and stuff.
Asanti, chill out! You'll get, when you get it.

So, let me know. Maybe you can help me out on this thing.

Take care,

Elcon

Hey Elcon, i'll try to give you a hand: you should check this direction
http://www.perfectpitch.com/contactus.htm , here you can write your questions about the program or any masterclass you are in and they will give an answer the next day or sooner. Hope it helps you.
By the way, yeah, i have to chill out!, now i'm taking it in a more relaxed way.
So let's see what happens.

[Peg Dizzler]

Anyone want to send some lessons to me? :naughty: I find that they're all out of order and not all available on p2p. I don't like to pirate, but I wanna "try before I buy." :p

[asanti]

Anyone want to send some lessons to me? :naughty: I find that they're all out of order and not all available on p2p. I don't like to pirate, but I wanna "try before I buy." :p

I got them from the Emule, you should look there, is the complete course in a rar file.

[musicmanjh]

Elcon, you may call me "Musicman" lol
MC 22 : what drill are you stuck on? 2 white keys 1 black key, any tone guitar, or diminished 7 drills? To me there was nothing in this class that was so NEW to my ear that it gave me a hard time. Plus you’re like 40min from the end of the course so I would think your ear should be open enough by now to pass these. Let me know what the problem is and I'll try to help.
Some of these Master classes are extremely short. But, in those say, 5mins, there may be hours of drills. Some times I felt like I was "falling behind" because I was spending days on one master class that was this short. That’s not how you should look at it though. You’re training your ear, not trying to pass this course. I burned all the courses to my ipod so I can use the drills for the RP course and PP course wherever I am and as often as I need, even though I’ve already finished the course.
To everyone: Don’t worry about finishing any course or drills found anywhere! All that matters is that your ear works the way you want it too! If you can make up your own drills to train your ear (srvfan) that’s great too. As long as your training your ear.


Here is something that really helped me: Think of a song that you love and you’ve heard allot. It has to be something extremely familiar to you. Play it in your head. Pick one note in your head from that song, say the first note played, or a word sung. Record yourself singing it or just sing the note and hold it while you hit play on your stereo. Did the notes line up?
During the course, before I could start distinguishing tones, I found I could start recalling songs that I REALLY knew. If I were to make a mistake I would correct it (like David always says) and sing the song the right way. Remember, David Lucas says that we attach feelings to notes: So if there is a song that you have strong feelings about, you may already have some notes locked away in your brain!
TRY IT.. Let me know how it works.

[Elcon]

The problem I think I have with MC 22 is about the identification of two white keys and one black key played harmonically on the keyboard/piano.

I too never thought to have that much trouble on this MC, but somehow I do. I have a hard time identifying tones in this way.

The tones B and C are the ones I get confused with most of the time. And I think Eb is one of the tones I can recognize best. But overall, I just keep making mistakes everywhere and continuesly.

If it never was that much of a big deal to you, "Musicman", then I guess there might not be much you can help me with. I mean, all the other MasterClasses were no big deal really. Most trouble I had were the identification of four white tones harmonically. That one took me about 4 days to finish.

Asanti, thank you for your help. I did write them three days ago, but still did not receive any reply.

Take care,

Elcon

[musicmanjh]

I would think that since I didn’t have trouble on this class, that I could help you best. Why would you want help from some one who had a hard time with it?
Playing 2 white keys is one of the first drills on this entire course. Now you’re just adding a black key. At this point in the course any two white keys you play should be very familiar to you. So the black key should stand out in contrast.
You shouldn’t be making mistakes "everywhere and continuously". The biggest part of ear training is correcting your mistakes and not moving on until you’re solid in what you’ve already learned. So if you are really stuck, take some time and go back a few classes. See if the drills are easy or hard. If they are easy, listen anyways. Work your way back up to MC 22. Your ear just may need a little more culturing.
Also, some times we just need a break. Take a day or 2 off. The line between ear training and ear straining gets blurry some times, and a break can redefine it for us.

[Elcon]

Thanx for your reply "musicdawg", but unfortunately all that I already did.

I did go back a few classes to work my way back up to MC 22.

It may seem weird that when just adding this third black key to the two white keys I get totally lost, but it changes my perception of the tones.

I believe it all has to do with this "phantom C" that Burge made us use throughout the course.
Probably this illusionary effect vanished for you in later MC's, but mine did not.

It is only now that I start to "know" some of the tones in their absolute value.

I wil explain a little more if it does not make sense to you.

Whenever I was able to ID tones I could sort of "feel" the tone C with the identified tone I heard. This is not done on purpose, it just happends.

This also goes for the black key tones, but I am not sure if I "unconciously" use tone C or C# to ID them.

BUT, when I need to ID a white and a black key harmonically, there is eighter no "phantom C" or there is one but it is totally of key. Meaning I could ID an E for Bb for example. Crazy stuff like that.

I can now get about six in a row correctly on MC 22.Think about, just six. Well, I AM getting better I guess.

All the other MC's are pretty easy for me, like I already mentioned. MC 22 is totally different.

I will keep working on it for a while. I hope I won't give up on it.

Take care,

Elcon

[musicmanjh]

That’s interesting. So basically, your brain is shifting your internal C to try and understand the sharps/flats. I didn’t have this problem, but I was well into the relative pitch course before my 2nd attempt at the PP course. There were allot of strange things my ear would do at first that I resolved in the RP course.

This is a bit different, but when I was learning my Maj3rds I had a very hard time. Sounds lame, but a M3rd played backwards sounded very minor to my ear. At the time I didn’t realize that a M3rd flipped upside down is a min6th and so a Maj 3rd just played backwards would sound similar. I spent allot of time in the beginning trying desperately to hear the difference. I had to really reprogram my ear with lots of listening.

That experience and a few others in the RP course may be why I didn’t run into any problems on MC 22. If that’s the case, then the answer really is to just keep listening. Only for me, allot of my listening was done in the RP course.

I did think of a drill that may help though: Try the drill where you reach out and play any 2 or 3 white keys, except, try this in the key of G. This would be the same as the key of C but with an F# instead of the F. So actually it wouldn’t just be any white key, but what you could do is keep a finger on the F# and with your other hand play any 2 white keys (not the F of course) along with the F#. So the other 2 notes you play would keep changing, but the F# would always be played.

Once you could easily identify the F#, try the same drill in the key of D. Now you would have 2 sharps: F# and C#. If you kept going, eventually you would reach the Key of B which includes all of the black keys and only 2 white keys ( E, B).

This may sound hard, but you’re just replacing a note from the key of C with a sharp one at a time. Right now in MC 22 you’re randomly throwing sharps at your ear and it’s getting confused. Your ear may need to listen to these sharps one at a time until it becomes more open.

Let me know if I was unclear on anything.

I’m interested to see if this helps…. peace

[asanti]

Hey i'm on MC 8!!, but i still can't hear them... :-(

Did anyone heard about the English Graham perfect pitch program?

[Elcon]

Thanx musicman,

I think I am getting a little better now. I may need a lot more practice, meaning I may need a month or two to really get it. I hope...

I will also try the drill you explained about the F# and stuff.

And for Asanti...

I do know about English Graham Absolute Pitch Power program. I myself own one of his copies that I bought.

I only got to the point of knowing C E and G at a certain time. I could think up or sing anyone of them quite easily without much concentration.

I would say his program may work well for developing Active-AP or Aurall recall as David Lucas would say.

But my advice is to stick with David Lucas' course. Work with it to the fullest of your ability and will. Again and again if necessary. Just like I do really.

There is also an English Graham Absolute Pitch Power Forum online, but I forgot what the website was. I thought I could not find it anymore, but I will check it out sometime again soon.

Some users did achieve full Active-AP from it, but to develop Passive-AP will be very rare if none.

Take care,

Elcon

[Peg Dizzler]

What's emule? Is that a p2p?

Anyone wanna upload it to you send it?

[asanti]

Thanx musicman,

I think I am getting a little better now. I may need a lot more practice, meaning I may need a month or two to really get it. I hope...

I will also try the drill you explained about the F# and stuff.

And for Asanti...

I do know about English Graham Absolute Pitch Power program. I myself own one of his copies that I bought.

I only got to the point of knowing C E and G at a certain time. I could think up or sing anyone of them quite easily without much concentration.

I would say his program may work well for developing Active-AP or Aurall recall as David Lucas would say.

But my advice is to stick with David Lucas' course. Work with it to the fullest of your ability and will. Again and again if necessary. Just like I do really.

There is also an English Graham Absolute Pitch Power Forum online, but I forgot what the website was. I thought I could not find it anymore, but I will check it out sometime again soon.

Some users did achieve full Active-AP from it, but to develop Passive-AP will be very rare if none.

Take care,

Elcon

thanks for the advice,
I will go on working with this supercourse, the thing that i want to share to see if it is something normal, i don't want to sound stressed or annoying because i'm not :lol: , the thing is that i'm on mc 8, i've been working with this drills every day since i started and i'm doing them properly but i can't see any progress in my ears.
I'm studying music right now, and for the last 3 or 4 years, i have a very good relative pitch so it's difficult to see any progress that is not about color hearing in my ear, know what i mean? anyway, this are just doubts because i know will keep on working with it...
Please understand me!!

[asanti]

What's emule? Is that a p2p?

Anyone wanna upload it to you send it?

Yeah, emule is a p2p like kazaa and many others, just be carefull because some versions have spyware or things like that.
I deleted the whole file from my computer because i have them on cds, but you should look there, i'm sure you will find it. :thumb:

[Elcon]

Yeah, some MasterClasses can be tricky, but I never had much trouble with them like I mentioned before.

I am surprised that you, Asanti, have been studying music for over 3 years and yet seem to have much trouble on the PP course though.

I never had any musical training. But we all have different ears.

Good luck on MC8. I hope you'll get through it, before it starts to bother you.

Take care,

Elcon

[asanti]

Yeah, some MasterClasses can be tricky, but I never had much trouble with them like I mentioned before.

I am surprised that you, Asanti, have been studying music for over 3 years and yet seem to have much trouble on the PP course though.

I never had any musical training. But we all have different ears.

Good luck on MC8. I hope you'll get through it, before it starts to bother you.

Take care,

Elcon

When i say progress, i'm talking about color hearing, those subtle differences that we've been talking about, you know?
I'm not having problem at all with the masterclasses i already done, as i told you i have pretty good relative pitch and some of them were pretty easy...but for me no colors are coming to the surface, you know? there are no clear differences that i can use to difference them (notes), so, let's see what happens...

Did you improve your playing because of having PP? What can you do now?

Asanti.

[moogoogaipan]

Has anyone heard about the absolute pitch power course by Graham English?

Absolute Pitch Power is a scam. It is a direct plagiarization of David L Burges course, but because of licensing issues, he can't sell the actually methods that burges uses. So in essences, it Absolute Crap

[Dazzer]

Hello
I am new here,
I brought the PP course over 10 years ago and spent about 12 months trying to work at it, and gave up and left on the shelf. In the the last 12 months I dusted it off and decide to start again. I can say that it does work I can hear the different notes, it has taken me awhile I am not a profesional musican, I play for fun and want to be a better player, my ears are not the best as I have a hearing lost of 50 % in one ear and have an inbalance in both ears meaning I hear different sounds to the normal ear. I play the banjo and have notice my skills and playing have picked up as I am self taught.
Really the success is to pratice and listen it does take time and to buy a good instrument makes alot of difference.

[moogoogaipan]

welcome to the boards Dazzer,
Yeah, the trick to perfect pitch is to practice, but not to overstrain.
If you overstrain, your ear will revert to it's old habits and try to find something in the note that you shouldn't be listening for. If you listen like a child then it comes a lot easier.

ps. Does anyone notice how gay David Lucas Burge sounds on his tape.
he has that homosexual lisp deal going on.
I'm not homophobe, but it's just interesting to listen to

[musicmanjh]

lol it took me a long time to get over his lisp... and in the course when he talks fondly of his "friend" who trained with him it always made me wonder. Lets just say that i usually listened to his cds with my headphones on, and if i was in the car, I kept the volume low! Didnt want anyone around me getting the wrong idea lol

[moogoogaipan]

lol..I hear you. If I listened to it in the car, I just rolled the windows up.

[slpntrx5]

i would try the course, but im broke...so im screwed...

[asanti]

i would try the course, but im broke...so im screwed...

you can get it from a p2p, like e-mule and others...

[asanti]

lol..I hear you. If I listened to it in the car, I just rolled the windows up.

hehehe, have you guys heard him laugh??? that's weird...(MC11 and powerpoints cd 8 i think...)
:thumb:

[Elcon]

Hi Asanti,

I did not realize you were still into this "color hearing" thing.

I want to give up on Absolute Pitch. My hearing is messed up. I mean, the way I perceive tones I cannot change. I try and I try, but in vain.

It is like asking an AP1 person to focus, but to ignore the tones he hears, when you randomly hit some tones on a piano. The way I hear I just cannot get rid of and that makes MC22 quite impossible to do.

I now only practice with two tones. A white and a black key harmonically.
How difficult that is for me.

Take care,

Elcon

[asanti]

Hi Asanti,

I did not realize you were still into this "color hearing" thing.

I want to give up on Absolute Pitch. My hearing is messed up. I mean, the way I perceive tones I cannot change. I try and I try, but in vain.

It is like asking an AP1 person to focus, but to ignore the tones he hears, when you randomly hit some tones on a piano. The way I hear I just cannot get rid of and that makes MC22 quite impossible to do.

I now only practice with two tones. A white and a black key harmonically.
How difficult that is for me.

Take care,

Elcon

Hi Elcon,
How are you?
I'm now on MC 11, i'm hearing some little differences between some notes but it is something that comes and goes, i mean, i can't distinguish them clearly, it's kind frustrating but i guess it's ok, i'm still going on....
How much do you spent on your practice time?

[SRVFan2005]

I'm not sure if I developed Perfect Pitch or just honed my relative pitch but I am definitely getting some where. I was stringing my guitar last night, and without realization, I tuned the bottom 3 perfectly without really paying attention. Also, I am singing closer to pitch and such.

Honestly, this program works because it makes you concentrate on something unconscious and that is hearing. Before that you would hear just notes and think it sounds good, if you were tone-deaf, you would hear nothing from music and wouldn't be here.

I never finished the course, but this all came quite clear to me that he is just organizing your thoughts and making you think about something that you normally wouldn't.

I will probably just go through the last few soon just for the sake of completion, but overall, I think I have used this enough to create my own system for songs which will help me practice.

[Elcon]

Hi Asanti,

I spent about 30 minutes practice time. And in the weekends I do about 3x 30 minutes of practice time.

How about you?

Take care,

Elcon

[Elcon]

Hi Asanti,

I spent about 30 minutes practice time. And in the weekends I do about 3x 30 minutes of practice time.

How about you?

Take care,

Elcon

[SRVFan2005]

Due to time constraints of school and work, I haven't been able to practice nearly as much as I want, but that will change soon. When I do practice, I pick up my guitar, do a nice warm-up to start feeling loose and then I start going up the neck. Suprisingly, if you look away, it is pretty difficult to know what fret you are on, even though I memorized the whole neck. So, I do this for about 10 minutes, picking out random notes. Then for close to 20 minutes, I listen to intervals and then do the same, shield my eyes bit, and try that again. Finally, for the next 30 minutes, I try to transcribe songs. I take it nice and easy. Currently, I have been able to transcribe little to no songs by ear, but just the practicing does help.

[Peg Dizzler]

I want to try it too, but I'm broke and I can never find it on Ares. How much does it cost anyway?

[Elcon]

Hi,

I wanted to post this message mentioning that today I finished MC 22.

It may now seem I must have developed Absolute Pitch by now, atleast that is what David Lucas will tell you after you've finished MC 22 if I am not mistaking.

Well, the reason I did get through it is because each trial (up to 20 in a row correctly), I checked my given answers by going up or down the scale until I was sure.

So, I did get my verification round of twenty correctly on the 'One black key and two white keys harmonically' and the 'One white key and two black keys harmonically'.

Thus instead of looking at the keys for the correct answer, I went up or down scale. I believe by doing this I re-inforced my relative pitch each time.

Nothing wrong this though.
I will now go back to MC 22 until I can just check immediately without going up or down the scale.

Then, I will ask one of my brothers to work with me on MC 22.


Take care,

Elcon

[Elcon]

Yep, I just finished MC 22 again, this time without going up or down the scale to check.

Pretty cool when earlier I decided to quit on it!

I have tremendous trouble with tone E and F.
Tone B and C I sometimes confuse aswell and tone C and D I need extra time to get.

So although I did go through the exercise correctly making no mistakes, I am far from having developed Absolute Pitch.

I hope I'll do better in time...


Take care,

Elcon