MX All-Time Baseball Team Part 2: First Basemen

[Illmatic]

The catchers poll is just about through, and the two catchers on the roster on the MX All-Time Baseball Team are:

Carlton "Pudge" Fisk (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/fiskca01.shtml) (Boston Red Sox and Chicago White Sox, 1969-93)
Yogi Berra (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/berrayo01.shtml) (New York Yankees, 1946-63)

The next poll is to determine the two first basemen on our team.

[Illmatic]

In this poll I feel bad for Killebrew, McCovey, Cepeda, and Perez, who were all great hitters who were stuck in pitcher's parks in a pitcher's era (the 1960s).

[Red Stripe]

Gehrig and Killebrew

[ikikdababy]

Where's Palmiero?

Gehrig and Palmiero...

[Simple Man]

Lou Gehrig and Willie McCovey

[Illmatic]

Where's Palmiero?

Gehrig and Palmiero...

Palmeiro just missed the cut. In the meantime, pick someone else.

[ikikdababy]

how do eddie murray and orlando cepeda make it in front of palmeiro?

[Brewer14]

Gehrig and Foxx

[robo2448]

Gehrig and Foxx

Same with me. Probably 2 of the most feared hitters ever.

[ThePatient]

Jimmie Foxx and Eddie Murray

I want to start a petition for Palmeiro. :p

[Badmoon]

I was expecting Rafael Palmiero :(

Gehrig and Bagwell

[Simple Man]

I think Gehrig might have a chance at winning this one.

[devonte_da_drummer]

Gherig obviously, and hmm... Bagwell. The winner is pretty much decided though.

[CombatRock]

Lou.

[Illmatic]

I love combatrock's ability to read the rules.

[Simple Man]

I love combatrock's ability to read the rules.

Fogive him, He likes Texas.

[ZEROthirtythree]

Where's Palmiero?

I love Palmiero!

[3074326]

Killebrew and Gehrig

[Against Miik!]

Murray and Killebrew. Eddie Murray was a highly underrated player if you ask me.

[MattSharpIsCool]

I voted Lou Gehrig and Frank Thomas.

I was probably a little biased in picking Thomas, he's my favorite player ever. But I do think he deserves consideration. He was one of the best all around offensive players of the 90's, possibly even THE best. 301 homers in the decade, including his 7 homerun rookie season. He batted .300 or better in 9 of 10 years.

Stats for the 90's: .320 AVG, 301 HR, 1,040 RBI, 968 runs, 317 doubles, 1,076 walks, 741 strikeouts, .440 OBP, .573 SLG

If he hadnt lost a total of 2 full seasons between the strike and injuries, he would be well over 500 homeruns by now, and I have a feeling he would still be hitting .320 every season.

[402unearthly402]

mark mcguire deffinitely deverse to be on the list (dont bring steriods into this) but i dont know if hes the top two, deffinitely top 10

[ZEROthirtythree]

(dont bring steriods into this)

I don't see why we shouldn't. Steriods are exactly the reason this guy should NOT be on the list. End of Story.

[robo2448]

I don't see why we shouldn't. Steriods are exactly the reason this guy should NOT be on the list. End of Story.

I don't want it to sound like I'm supporting steroids, I hate McGwire for doing them. But steroieds were NOT illegal when he did them. So technically I guess you shouldn't hold that against him. But outside of his rookie season, 97, 98, and 99, McGwire wasn't one of the best 1B. I don't think he's top 10 material. And Gehrig better win this. He's miles ahead of any other 1B. He may have quite possibly been better than Babe Ruth as well.

[Joe]

Palmeiro just missed the cut. In the meantime, pick someone else.

How? He hit more home runs and probably more hits than half the guys up there. He's made the all-star game several times, won 3 gold gloves, and is still playing. That's some bull, sorry.

Jimmie Foxx and Eddie Murray

I want to start a petition for Palmeiro. :p

/signed.

[Against Miik!]

Palmerio is about to surpass Reggie Jackson on the all time home run list, which would make him ninth all time. He should be one of the greatest players ever period. And I really don't think hes on steroids either. Just Viagra.

[robo2448]

Any guy who needs viagra kind of loses respect in my book. Whenever I think of him, I think Viagra, not his homeruns. I think his reputation has actually been hurt a lot by viagra, and that doing those adds overshadowed his baseball talents.

[Illmatic]

Sammy Sosa's 7th all-time in home runs but that doesn't make him a good outfielder by any means.

The reason Palmeiro missed the cut is because he spent his prime in the 1990's (hitter's era) in the AL (hitter's league) in Baltimore and Texas (hitter's parks). "But Frank Thomas!"
Raffy: .289/.372/.517
Thomas: .308/.429/.567

Thomas was arguably the best overall hitter in the 1990's; Palmeiro was not. Also, Bagwell played in the NL in the Astrodome (a pitcher's park).

The reason McGwire isn't on there is because he could only do one thing (hit home runs), and he needed steroids to help him do that.

[MattSharpIsCool]

I still dont think McGwire took steroids. But this isnt a thread about roids, so lets just leave it at that.

I also agree that Big Mac shouldnt be on the list. Palmeiro...I dont know. I would have probably put him on it, but thats just me.

[HTLSM]

Rafael Palmiero and Willie McCovey
how do you forget Palmiero

[3074326]

Once again, I think the list is perfectly reasonable considering the lack of space.

[Simple Man]

Don't vote for Palmeiro, He's not on the list and Ray made it perfectly clear why.

[MattSharpIsCool]

I have a feeling people arent reading the directions and only voting for Lou Gehrig. He has 16 votes, and everyone else has 19 combined.

[Kurtz]

Gehrig and McCovey.

[Kurtz]

Any guy who needs viagra kind of loses respect in my book. Whenever I think of him, I think Viagra, not his homeruns. I think his reputation has actually been hurt a lot by viagra, and that doing those adds overshadowed his baseball talents.
I don't know what not being able to get hard has to do with baseball, but okay.

[Simple Man]

I don't know what not being able to get hard has to do with baseball, but okay.
I was thinking the same thing :amaze:

[Illmatic]

There is no way you could even argue that Palmeiro was the best first baseman of his era...god, I can't believe people only look at home runs.

[Joe]

There is no way you could even argue that Palmeiro was the best first baseman of his era...god, I can't believe people only look at home runs.

And his hits and his slugging percentages are pretty impressive. have you ever even been to the hall of fame? any list there has Palmeiro's name on it AND he's the only active one on there. 3 gold gloves? There's no way you could even argue that he doesn't belong in that company.

Sammy Sosa's 7th all-time in home runs but that doesn't make him a good outfielder by any means.

The reason Palmeiro missed the cut is because he spent his prime in the 1990's (hitter's era) in the AL (hitter's league) in Baltimore and Texas (hitter's parks). "But Frank Thomas!"
Raffy: .289/.372/.517
Thomas: .308/.429/.567

Thomas was arguably the best overall hitter in the 1990's; Palmeiro was not. Also, Bagwell played in the NL in the Astrodome (a pitcher's park).

The reason McGwire isn't on there is because he could only do one thing (hit home runs), and he needed steroids to help him do that.

Ok, fine. So then there will be no McGwire, no Bonds, no nobody that ever hit a good amount of home runs or hits. I'm actually surprised and amazed that you won't put on raffy even though you're a texas fan, for you would know he's a great first basemen (you have to be good to win a gold glove, he won three)

[Illmatic]

I'm a Red Sox fan, not a Texas fan.

Also, Barry Bonds hit .300 over his career, has an astounding career OBP of .443, has over 500 career stolen bases, and is probably the best defensive left fielder of all time. So it's a little stupid to say that all he did was hit home runs.

BTW, Bagwell and Thomas are both much better than Raffy, which is why I say you can't argue that Raffy was the best of that era.

[ZEROthirtythree]

Any guy who needs viagra kind of loses respect in my book. Whenever I think of him, I think Viagra, not his homeruns. I think his reputation has actually been hurt a lot by viagra, and that doing those adds overshadowed his baseball talents.

You got to be kidding me.

[ikikdababy]

Sammy Sosa's 7th all-time in home runs but that doesn't make him a good outfielder by any means.

The reason Palmeiro missed the cut is because he spent his prime in the 1990's (hitter's era) in the AL (hitter's league) in Baltimore and Texas (hitter's parks). "But Frank Thomas!"
Raffy: .289/.372/.517
Thomas: .308/.429/.567

Thomas was arguably the best overall hitter in the 1990's; Palmeiro was not. Also, Bagwell played in the NL in the Astrodome (a pitcher's park).

The reason McGwire isn't on there is because he could only do one thing (hit home runs), and he needed steroids to help him do that.

Regardless of where he spent his time, 38 homers in 9 straight seasons is an MLB record. He was the model of consistencency from '93 to '03...

And let's not forget his 563 HR and almost 3,000 hits... he's 8 hits shy of being the 4th player in history. Eddie Murray is the only player up there to pull that off and it should be noted just how much DH Murray played AND that he played in the same league, and the same era and ballpark as Palmeiro for a good chunk of his career... The main difference is that Palmeiro's numbers are better.

Thomas played in the same era and league as Palmeiro and has 900 fewer hits, 100 fewer HR, 400 fewer RBIs in just four fewer seasons, and even that's misleading because Thomas played everyday in his second year. Palmeiro wasn't in the starting lineup until his third.

Also, I think you have to take durability into account. Thomas would actually be closer to Palmeiro in numbers today, IF he hadn't lost 300-400 games to injury.

Palmerio has better long term numbers, he's never had a major injury. The only time he missed more than 19 games was 1994, aka the strike year. And finally, what about defense? Palmeiro has 3 Gold Gloves to his credit. Thomas has 0.

Comparing average OBP and Slugging is a pretty half-assed way to measure players.

[Illmatic]

Thomas has lost closer to 250 games to injury, most of those coming after his prime anyway.

Palmeiro's third and final Gold Glove game in 1999, when he played a grand total of 28 games at first base.

PS, longetivity stats are crappy way to judge players, too. Way to fault guys like Hank Greenberg, Pedro Martinez, and Sandy Koufax. Stats like BA, OBP, SLG, ERA, WHIP, K/9, and BAA are better for evaluating players than hits, home runs, wins, and strikeouts.

The reason Raffy's numbers are better than Murray's is because Murray spent his prime years in the 1980's in a pitcher's park (old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore).

But even if he is better than Murray, how can you justify picking him over anyone else there? He's still not the best first baseman of his generation (there's no way he's better than Bagwell, who is better in both aspects of the game) and I still don't think you can argue him over Foxx, McCovey, Killebrew, or anyone else there.

[ZEROthirtythree]

He's still not the best first baseman of his generation (there's no way he's better than Bagwell, who is better in both aspects of the game)

Really? Let's see some stats then shall we?

[Illmatic]

Really? Let's see some stats then shall we?

Well, Bagwell was better defensively. He only has one Gold Glove, but that can be chalked up to playing in the same league as Mark Grace and JT Snow, two of the finest defensive first basemen of the past half-century.

Bagwell was also a better offensive player. Stats like hits, doubles, home runs, and RBI will point the arrow in Palmeiro's favor, but Bagwell did not break into the bigs until 1991, while Palmeiro was a regular from the second half of 1987 (when he had 221 at-bats) onwards. Bagwell's avg/obp/slg splits (.294/.408/.542) are superior to Palmeiro's, and he does more for his offense--he walks more, hits more home runs (not by much) and doubles (not by much), and even stole bases back in the 1990's. And I'm not talking about 10 stolen bases. In 1996 he had 21 stolen bases to go with 81 extra-base hits (48 doubles, 2 triples, 31 home runs) and 135 walks, 1997 he had 31 stolen bases to go with 85 extra-base hits (40 doubles, 2 triples, 43 home runs) and 127 walks, in 1998 he had 19 steals to go with 68 extra-base hits (33 doubles, 1 triple, 34 home runs) and 109 walks, and in 1999 he had 30 steals to go with 77 extra-base hits (35 doubles and 42 home runs) and 149 walks. During Raffy's most productive stretch, he can't match that.

Bagwell contributed more runs and more offense in a league (NL) and a home park (Astrodome) where such offensive production was relatively hard to come by.

[ZEROthirtythree]

Interesting. Those stats are a little better than Palmeiro's, considering where he played.

(I asked for his stats because I know nothing about him. I don't watch the NL)