Rate the teams from the NBA draft

[Hababi]

for the draft list, see:
http://nbadraft.net/index.asp


Atlanta: C-
Unless they plan on starting Josh Smith at PG (which they did sometimes last year), this was a dumb move. Sure, Marvin Williams might turn out to be the best of this draft, but Smith and Childress have a whole lot of potential left in them too, and supplying a PG would've been the better move.
Taking Salim Stoudamire with Roko Ukic on the board is a horrible blunder.

Boston: A+
Gerald Green falling to them is an amazing bit of luck considering there was talk of him going as high as third overall. He, not Williams, will be the best player from this draft, long term.
Gomes is a very good pickup, and Oirene Green could become a solid role player.

Charlotte: C
Raymond Felton: good pick
Sean May: bad pick. Not a bad player, just wrong team. Danny Granger, Joey Graham and Gerald Green were all left on the board. Any one of them would've made for a great pick. May does not.

Denver: B
Julius Hodge fills a glaring hole in the SG department, but can he shoot well enough to be a real factor?
Linus Klieza is a good pickup, he's going to be a solid pro, but is he going to play 4 when Nene and Martin are already on board? Or, will they make him the backup for Carmelo? At least he plays defense. Sanchez probably won't turn out, but he does have a little potential
Maybe Axel Horville will be a second round steal. Maybe he'll never do anything. At that point, a second round pick on him is worth it. If nothing else, he has a cool first name :p

Detroit: D
Why take more players at your most stacked position, when you need a sweet shooting wing payer or two? I don't know, ask Detroit. Maxiel is a good hustle guy, but not a good pick. Same with Amir Johnson. Acker's a solid combo guard pick in the second round

Golden State: C
Diugu might be a very good player in the NBA, but he's not a good fit for an up tempo game with Murphy, Biedrins and Cabarkapa already on the roster.
Taft and Ellis are good second round picks. Taft has the talent of a first rounder and maybe this will be a wakeup call for him. He can step in at center from day one and be better than Adonal Foyle. Ellis likewise needed a wakeup call. In a few years, he could be a solid backup PG for Baron Davis. Or, he could wash out like Dajuan Wagner is destined to do. If so, it's only a second round pick.

Houston: D-
Taking another combo guard was dumb. Really dumb. They should've targeted a true PG, a SF or a PF. Instead they got Luther Head. Bad pick.

Indiana: A
Danny Granger's going to make a lot of teams regret they passed on him. He doesn't quite have the talent of Ron Artest, but is much more grounded.
Ezram Lorbek is a solid second round pick who could pay dividends.

LA Clippers: C
As much as I like foreign players, taking a skinny Russian kid who played mostly against junior competition when Granger was left on the board was stupid.
Daniel Ewing, on the other hand, was a smart pick, and could even play his natural SG spot with Livingston at PG. Watch out, the guy can shoot the lights out of opposing teams.

LA Lakers: C
They got the next Leon Smith. GG, Lakerland. Sean May would've been a much wiser pick here.
Turiaf, however, was a good pick, a MUCH cheaper Brian Grant.

Memphis: B
Hakim Warrick will have lots of leeway in Memphis to find his position and make a contribution. He may be better suited to be a 6th man in the pros, but there's a lot of talent there, and at 19 this was a solid pick

Miami: B-
If Simien stays healthy, this is a good pick. David Lee would've been a better, more popular selection.

Milwaukee: A
Bogut was the right pick to make. Ilsyova, in round 2, was a good pick. If he turns out to be half as good as his potential is said to be, this will be a solid second round pick.

Minnesota: F
McCants and Wright could be the same player. Injury prone, streak shooting, under sized two guards. McCants being a head case may make him the shorter stay of the two. Minnesota would've been better off letting the NBA take this first rounder away from them, too.

New Jersey: C
Unless they trade Carter or Jefferson, this was basically a wasted pick. Wright is a good player, but this didn't address the front court needs. Ilic was a good second round pick, if they're as lucky with him as they were with Nenad Krystic, they're well off.

New Orleans: B+
I still think that New Orleans should've drafted a wing player and kept Dickau starting at point, but they didn't listen to me. Paul has more upside than Deron Williams. Bass is a good second round pick who could start early for them.

New York: B-
Channing Frye was a solid selection. They needed a center, they got the second best one in the draft. He won't be an all star, but he can be a solid starter.
Nate Robinson was a reach for a first round selection but he'll be a solid spark off the bench.
David Lee is a good player drafted by the wrong team. He's a slightly undersized PF...not what they need.

Orlando: B-
Vasquez was a solid pick, he's ready to contribute and should play solid alongside Dwight Howard. Denier wasn't a wise pick having Francis and Nelson already. Trading Martynas Andriuskivicious was a bungle, he was a great second round grab.

Phoenix: C
Trading to get Kurt Thomas may hurt team chemistry but it gives them toughness. Gortat is a solid second round pickup.

Portland: B+
They manuevered very well, getting the guy they wanted in Webster, who's going to be a good pro. Jack is a good PG and may push Telfair for the starting job.

Sacremento: A
Francisco Garcia is the right player for this team and at 23 he was the best they could do.

San Antonio: B
I have no clue who Mahinmi is, but the Spurs have a way of finding talent, so one must assume there's something there.

Seattle: B+
Petro is a good risk to take; he has an NBA body. Gelebale is also a good pickup, I think he'll be a solid NBA player.

Toronto: D
Taking Charlie V was a truly boneheaded move, maybe the single worst move of the entire draft. Joey Graham wasn't as good as Danny Granger, but at least this move made some slight sense. And, Ukic was the steal of the draft. He'll soon be their starting PG. This only somewhat redeems a dumb draft.

Utah: C
Deron Williams is overrated and the Jazz were stupid to trade for him when Raymond Felton might otherwise have been left to them. Williams may only be the fifth best PG in this draft, long term.
CJ Miles was a smart pick, but Whaley is going to get run out of Utah unless he turns his life around.

Washington: B
Nabbing Blatche where they did was a steal, well worth the risk.


Best draft: Boston, Indiana, Milwaukee
Worst draft: Minnesota, Houston, Toronto
Biggest reach: Mahanmi. The Spurs could've traded for a late second pick and still nabbed him.
Biggest steal: Roko Ukic. A truly mysterious fall.

[Hababi]

Oh, and if I'm the Heat, I immediately get Matt Walsh and Alan Anderson free agent contracts, release Eddie Jones and make sure to resign Udonis Haslem.

[robo2448]

I'd give the Knicks a B. Frye was a great pick, Robinson and Lee weren't that bad. Just because they had 3 first round picks, they got some talent, even if they could have had a little more. I trust Isiah's opinion on drafting, he's had a pretty good track record if you look at who he picked with Toronto and Indiana when he was with them. He was the one who drafted McGrady years ago. Maybe he sees something in Robinson and Lee that we don't. Particularly Lee, that one leaves me wondering a little. I just don't trust Isiah on trades. Draft is his strength though.

Edit- Great job with the ratings though, I agree with almost everything you said.

[Illmatic]

Both LA teams get F's from me. I'm surprised if Mitch Kupchack (even if he's only a puppet GM) and Elgin Baylor are still there. Ugh. You don't waste a lotto pick on someone who you're just going to send back to Russia for a few years, and with three draft picks the Lakers got one guy (Turiaf) who might become a solid contributor. Absolutely atrocious.

Seattle made a dumb move too. Johan Petro might take over Shawn Bradley's hallowed place as the guy everyone in the NBA will dunk on.

Orlando had a poor draft, too. Vazquez might take over Bradley's place, too, and they did not need Diener at all.

Minnesota's draft was abysmal; neither McCants nor Wright are all that good. I'm sure Bracey Wright will be a great NBDL player, though.

No way will Felton be better than Deron, long-term. The only PG in this draft who will be better is Chris Paul. Also, Deron gave us the best moment of the draft.

I don't like Hodge in Denver. Denver desperately needs a shooter, and Hodge is not a very good shooter. And Portland absolutely robbed Denver. Linas Kleiza will make a nice end-of-the-bench cheerleader, but Jack will be an upper-tier PG in the NBA.

[3074326]

Some of the picks were probably based on what the teams know about upcoming free agency, so I'll go ahead and wait until then to rate the draft. ;)

[Hababi]

No way will Felton be better than Deron, long-term. The only PG in this draft who will be better is Chris Paul. Also, Deron gave us the best moment of the draft.


You're overrating Deron. He can't create offense for himself and he doesn't have the quickness of Jason Kidd to offset his shaky jump shot. He's Andre Miller II.

Vasquez will be a solid nba player, I guarantee it now.

[Understanding In a Crash]

I can't believe Matt Walsh and that Kentucky guy didn't get drafted. That's pretty shocking thinking who got drafted.........

I agree with most of your team ranks except I think the Knicks had their best draft in years and they actually may be able to do something this year...

[Understanding In a Crash]

I believe guys like Jarrett Jack, Julius Hodge, Hakim Warrick, Wayne Simien, Salim Stoudamire, and Joey Graham were underrated throughout the draft. Salim Stoudamire is probably going to be along the second round steals..

[Illmatic]

You're overrating Deron. He can't create offense for himself and he doesn't have the quickness of Jason Kidd to offset his shaky jump shot. He's Andre Miller II.

Vasquez will be a solid nba player, I guarantee it now.

If Deron Williams was from Croatia you'd call him the next Magic Johnson.

But cheapshots aside, you're right, he can't create offense for himself, and you obviously know this because you've seen him more than I have.

.........

Oh wait, I've seen just about every Illini game this year.

[Illmatic]

Andrew Bynum has a Myspace! (http://www.myspace.com/8750639)

Looks like the Lakers drafted a real project :-\

[Hababi]

Oh wait, I've seen just about every Illini game this year.


Which means you're a fan of his and that's causing your panglossian outlook on him :p

Paul, Felton, Ukic and possibly Jack will all be better pros. I don't think Williams will bust; I just think this was a terrific PG crop and the others are better. Ukic has the size, the handle and is faster.

[Hababi]

Andrew Bynum has a Myspace!

Looks like the Lakers drafted a real project :-\


Hey, not a drinker or a smoker, he's probably a Christian (Gerald Green is, Danny Granger's a Jehovah's Witness)...I like him now, I officially say he WILL NOT bust :cool:

[Illmatic]

He's an athletic, 7 foot tall basketball player and he doesn't know what his best physical attribute is. And he has, in his own words, "acme". He's so insecure...how will he react when Kobe Bryant is bitching about him in the locker room, or when Phil Jackson is insulting him, or when LA fans start booing (wait, scratch that, LA fans never care enough to boo)?

Paul, Felton, Ukic and possibly Jack will all be better pros. I don't think Williams will bust; I just think this was a terrific PG crop and the others are better. Ukic has the size, the handle and is faster.

No. No no no no no, I'm tired of you and your ****ing Euros. How many international players have become good players in the past 20 years? Like, four? Five? What makes you think Ukic won't get eaten alive, like 99% of all European players out there? Felton isn't as good all-around as Williams is, and neither is Jack. Paul, we have yet to see.

Which means you're a fan of his and that's causing your panglossian outlook on him

Yes, and I also know his game a lot more than you do.

[Hababi]

No. No no no no no, I'm tired of you and your ****ing Euros. How many international players have become good players in the past 20 years? Like, four? Five? What makes you think Ukic won't get eaten alive, like 99% of all European players out there? Felton isn't as good all-around as Williams is, and neither is Jack. Paul, we have yet to see.


FYI your championship team Spurs started two foreign players, one Euro (Parker and Ginobli) and another two played significant minutes during the regular season (Rasho, Udrih) :thumb:

But Euros suck :rolleyes:

Why won't Ukic get eaten alive? Because he's a good player, the same reason most sports writers are calling him the steal of the draft :thumb:





Yes, and I also know his game a lot more than you do.


But you don't know enough to see the significant flaws in it.

[MattSharpIsCool]

Andrew Bynum has a Myspace! (http://www.myspace.com/8750639)

Looks like the Lakers drafted a real project :-\

The typing is fantastic.

Oh well, I added him on there. I now am friends with an NBA player.

[Tom]

/went to high school with Andrew Bynum :cool:
His GPA = 2.1 :lol:

But he is such a cool guy

[robo2448]

I believe guys like Jarrett Jack, Julius Hodge, Hakim Warrick, Wayne Simien, Salim Stoudamire, and Joey Graham were underrated throughout the draft. Salim Stoudamire is probably going to be along the second round steals..

I agree. I think Graham will be an excellent pro. Actually I feel that Hodge is overrated, but I agree with the rest. Both Simien and Warrick are undersized, but Simien is another Mike Sweetney (not a bad thing to get late in the 1st round) and Warrick is athletic enough to make up for his size. I like Stoudamire's shooting touch a lot, he could be a big steal.

And I feel that both Felton and Paul will be better pros in the long run than Williams. They are both more athletic and have more potential. I think Williams will definitely be better than Jack and Ukic though.

[Against Miik!]

You didn't even do the Cavs did you? I don't even think they had a draft pick, but they still picked up Martynas Andriuskevicius through a trade with Orlando. They got rid of Jiri Welsch, who might be the worst player in the NBA, to the Bucks for an 06' second round pick and cash. They cleared up 2.1 million in cap space. So although they had no draft, they had a great draft day if you ask me. The Cavs currently have 29 million in free cap space to work with, so this should be an interesting offseason. Unfortunately, they can't trade Z yet as Andriuskevicius needs time to develop, and people need time to learn how to pronounce his name.

[Illmatic]

FYI your championship team Spurs started two foreign players, one Euro (Parker and Ginobli) and another two played significant minutes during the regular season (Rasho, Udrih)

Ginobili is a South American, and South Americans (Ginobili, Manu, Nocioni, Varejao) are tough enough to mix it up with Americans in the paint, which is a trait the softies from across the pond lack.

And you forgot that Nesterovic was a weakspot on the Spurs, to the point where they were actively shopping around for a center before landing Nazr Mohammed at the trade deadline. Nesterovic barely played over 100 minutes in the playoffs, and really only played in the end of blowouts. Udrih played out of necessity; they couldn't exactly play Parker 48 minutes a game.

Why won't Ukic get eaten alive? Because he's a good player, the same reason most sports writers are calling him the steal of the draft

These are the same sportswriters who called Detroit foolish for taking Tayshaun Prince, trashed Orlando for taking Dwight Howard, and praised Denver for taking Nikoloz Tskitegoerwisroiswoihroisvhilli.

And any sportswriter stupid enough to call him the steal of the draft in a draft where Danny Granger and Gerald Green fell to 17 and 18 should probably lose his job.

I stand by my point. How many foreign players have come in and really made an impact? Hakeem, Drazen Petrovic, Yao, Dirk. That's four.

But you don't know enough to see the significant flaws in it.

Even if that was true---which it wasn't---I still know more about it than you, which gives you no right to sound like an expert on it.

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

Miami = A

I don't know what the hell they are thinking, but we don't need a guy, let alone a rookie PF, to help us out for 30-40 minutes.
Keep his minutes low, and he'll be a perfect fit. I'm just wondering how much we will play the guy.
And I'm hopping Dorrell Wright will get a lot more PT because he is impresive as hell.

[Understanding In a Crash]

IMO after days gone by this is the order I'd say the top 3 teams were. (note: these are going by team situations and not drafting skills too.)

1) Indiana
2) Memphis
3) Boston

The 3 worst (same rules apply)

1) Phoenix (I don't know what they were thinking, they won't make the playoffs next year... mark my words)
2) Houston (It always seems after teams recently get previous 1st round picks, they do stupid moves for the next 5 years..)
3) Toronto (They may have something up their sleeve but it's too early to tell)

[3074326]

Miami = A

I don't know what the hell they are thinking, but we don't need a guy, let alone a rookie PF, to help us out for 30-40 minutes.
Keep his minutes low, and he'll be a perfect fit. I'm just wondering how much we will play the guy.
And I'm hopping Dorrell Wright will get a lot more PT because he is impresive as hell.

There are rumors that Haslem will be gone in free agency. I think it's a great pick for the Heat either way.

[Understanding In a Crash]

There are rumors that Haslem will be gone in free agency. I think it's a great pick for the Heat either way.
It's why they picked him, because theirs probably a 75% Haslem is done with. I like Haslem but he wasn't much of anything too flashy, but he'll definitely find his way with another team.

[Hababi]

Ginobili is a South American, and South Americans (Ginobili, Manu, Nocioni, Varejao) are tough enough to mix it up with Americans in the paint, which is a trait the softies from across the pond lack.

That's quite a generalization, especially since I believe Ginobli made his name playing in the Italian league.


Udrih played out of necessity; they couldn't exactly play Parker 48 minutes a game.


So...when one Euro couldn't play, they turned to another...


These are the same sportswriters who called Detroit foolish for taking Tayshaun Prince, trashed Orlando for taking Dwight Howard, and praised Denver for taking Nikoloz Tskitegoerwisroiswoihroisvhilli.


I scarcely remember anyone trashing Orlando for the Howard selection, or Detroit for the Prince selection.


And any sportswriter stupid enough to call him the steal of the draft in a draft where Danny Granger and Gerald Green fell to 17 and 18 should probably lose his job.


Granger slipped 10 or so picks. Green slipped 15 or so. Ukic slipped into the next round, the biggest slide of all. That makes him the steal of the draft.


I stand by my point. How many foreign players have come in and really made an impact? Hakeem, Drazen Petrovic, Yao, Dirk. That's four.


Um...Pau Gasol??? Toni Kukoc. Arvydas Sabonis. Peja Stoyakavich. Parker. Nenad Krstic. Ginobli. Kirilenko. Hedo Turkoglu. Etc.


Even if that was true---which it wasn't---I still know more about it than you, which gives you no right to sound like an expert on it.

I'm not the only one who feels that way. Many columnists agree: Williams is a good PG, not but a franchise player.

[3074326]

It's why they picked him, because theirs probably a 75% Haslem is done with. I like Haslem but he wasn't much of anything too flashy, but he'll definitely find his way with another team.

I think Simien will be more of a threat than Haslem anyways. Good pick for Miami.

[ZEROthirtythree]

New York: B-
Channing Frye was a solid selection. They needed a center, they got the second best one in the draft. He won't be an all star, but he can be a solid starter.

I don't think he can be a center. He seems very fragile. I thought Andrew Bynum would have been a better pick.

And I have a question... what are they going to do with the HS kids? They will have to wait out a year right? Or does the age limit not take effect yet?

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

I think Simien will be more of a threat than Haslem anyways. Good pick for Miami.

thats crazy talk....because there was no talk about Haslem not being able to be 100% the whole game, and prone to injury...
but then again, he went to Europe and was undrafted..
We got lucky with him, so I'm a bit nervous if he does leave....

Damon Jones just declined player option so now HE'S a free agent and I'm a bit pissed.

FUUUCK

[Against Miik!]

I don't think he can be a center. He seems very fragile. I thought Andrew Bynum would have been a better pick.

And I have a question... what are they going to do with the HS kids? They will have to wait out a year right? Or does the age limit not take effect yet?

The age limit takes place next year I believe. That would be cheap if they made this years HS player wait a year, because many of them declared elligable before this rule was put into place.

[Illmatic]

Granger and Green were both projected to be top 10 picks, Green was expected to be a top 3 pick. And they fell out of the lotto to playoff teams--Granger to the second or third best team in the East, no less. I don't remember seeing Ukic in the first in ANY mock. Except yours, of course.


http://nbadraft.net/2005mock.asp
That was the consensus opinion of where Ukic would go amongst the major draft sites (that, hoopshype, draftexpress).


I forgot about Manu, which is foolish of me because I'm one of his biggest boosters. But c'mon. Peja? Kukoc? TURKOGLU? Other than those four I posted + Manu and AK, none of those guys are essential. No one is saying, "The Nets are screwed without Nenad Krstic!" "The Kings were dealt a huge blow when they lost Hedo Turkoglu!" Not even Peja and Pau Gasol are considered cornerstones although I could be wrong on Gasol.


You asked who made an impact, not who's the cornerstone of their franchise. Now, it depends on what you consider making an impact is. 10 PPG in your rookie year is a pretty good impact, and look for Krstic to average closer to 16 next year. Hedo averaged 14 PPG last year. Kukoc averaged 18 PPG a few seasons. If you're averaging doube digits, you're making a significant contribution to your team.

And, right now Peja is the cornerstone of that franchise; it's why they traded away Webber-one of the two had to go, one would be the cornerstone and one would be gone. They (wisely) chose Peja. With Gasol, who else is the cornerstone of that franchise? Jason Williams??? :lol: Gasol, at this point, is the cornerstone there.



...and Udrih is so bad they always rush Parker back into the game. This is like the Kings subbing Greg Ostertag in for Brad Miller.


You're talking about the playoffs. In the regular, Udrih played solid in a reserve role-14 MPG, 5.9 PPG, almost a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio.


Is it really? Explain Dirk's spectacular meltdown in the playoffs this year (he was ABYSMAL). Explain how the only European players to make positive contributions to championship teams are Tony Parker and Toni Kukoc. Explain why they aren't exactly rushing out to release "Peja Stojakovic's Greatest Playoff Moments" on DVD anytime soon.

Mehmet Okur last year with Detroit, too. And, before 5 years ago, foreign players were hardly in the NBA. A foreign player will lead a team to a championship within 5 years, whether it be Dirk, Yao, Kirilenko or someone else.

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

Udrih isn't bad. He's a fuuucking ROOKIE. And he did do pretty **** well backing up Tony Parker to have ANY playing time in the NBA Finals. He had some impressive moves, and I think he did the best he could have done being a European rookie playing in the NBA Finals. (The Spurs won btw, and they didn't do it without the help from their bench) Udrih will be a good player, of course he fuct up some times, but can you really blame him? He had heart and hit some huge shots, and can shoot the 3-ball. He isn't on a team with a 7 man rotation, and he knows he is counted on. I don't see how you can still knock him, did you even watch the regular season? The entire playoff series?

Peja stepped up in this years playoffs. I think he is still growing, and I am his biggest supporter. He is the best shooter in the NBA, along with Dirk, Ray Allen, and other select few, but he does have time to improve. Dirk broke down, yes....he just wasn't himself, but he's a guy that thrives on team support. When a guy like Terry has to step up and score 30+ for his team to win, I'm sure Dirk may feel a bit inadequate.
Plus he's emotional playing against his "best friend" haha.

[MattSharpIsCool]

I'd say Dikembe Mutumbo made a pretty decent impact in the league.

[Illmatic]

Peja stepped up in this years playoffs. I think he is still growing, and I am his biggest supporter. He is the best shooter in the NBA, along with Dirk, Ray Allen, and other select few, but he does have time to improve.

He's 28...he clearly doesn't have much growing time left.

Dirk broke down, yes....he just wasn't himself, but he's a guy that thrives on team support. When a guy like Terry has to step up and score 30+ for his team to win, I'm sure Dirk may feel a bit inadequate.
Plus he's emotional playing against his "best friend" haha.

Those are pretty crappy reasons...do you think MJ and Bird and Magic and Duncan care if someone else on their team busts out for 30 points? Think they take it personally, like Dirk does? Just goes to show, Dirk is soft.

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

Dirk IS soft.....this is why his team never makes it to the Finals.
But I don't think its a crappy reason because it adds pressure to Dirk which results in stress which results in poor decision making. My theory is, you have to be strongminded, and if you aren't completely focused on the game, then you are going to screw up. Dirk can get fed up and lose his competitive edge despite what tremendous talent he has.
The reason this never happened to MJ is because he had a creative drive that would NEVER quit, NEVER. He had the greatest skills of any player around him, and his confidence was through the roof. He was fit of mind and trusted his teammates, and changed the way the game was played. Very rarely does a guy like that come along, and that separates the "legends" from the shooters, playmakers, mediocre "all star"
Rashard Lewis was given all star status out of pity, we know he struggled and had a breakout year, but he's no allstar unfortunately.

And yes, Peja is 28 but he can continue to grow as a player. Being stuck in Sacto for his whole career will stunt his career growth unless drastic changes happen such as a NEW COACH because Adelman has become an embarassment.

[Hababi]

http://nbadraft.net/2005mock.asp
That was the consensus opinion of where Ukic would go amongst the major draft sites (that, hoopshype, draftexpress).



You asked who made an impact, not who's the cornerstone of their franchise. Now, it depends on what you consider making an impact is. 10 PPG in your rookie year is a pretty good impact, and look for Krstic to average closer to 16 next year. Hedo averaged 14 PPG last year. Kukoc averaged 18 PPG a few seasons. If you're averaging doube digits, you're making a significant contribution to your team.

And, right now Peja is the cornerstone of that franchise; it's why they traded away Webber-one of the two had to go, one would be the cornerstone and one would be gone. They (wisely) chose Peja. With Gasol, who else is the cornerstone of that franchise? Jason Williams??? :lol: Gasol, at this point, is the cornerstone there.




You're talking about the playoffs. In the regular, Udrih played solid in a reserve role-14 MPG, 5.9 PPG, almost a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio.



Mehmet Okur last year with Detroit, too. And, before 5 years ago, foreign players were hardly in the NBA. A foreign player will lead a team to a championship within 5 years, whether it be Dirk, Yao, Kirilenko or someone else.



Oops, I hit edit instead of reply and didn't notice it :p

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

Kirilenko won't lead his team with his 10 blocks a game.
He'll get injured too quickly.
The guy is nearly 7 feet tall and under 200 lbs. He's a STICK, and he gets banged up like you wouldn't believe.
Boozer + Kirilenko + competent PG + solid bench = possibilities

[Hababi]

Kirilenko won't lead his team with his 10 blocks a game.
He'll get injured too quickly.
The guy is nearly 7 feet tall and under 200 lbs. He's a STICK, and he gets banged up like you wouldn't believe.
Boozer + Kirilenko + competent PG + solid bench = possibilities


He's developing his offense; he'll never be scoring 25 PPG but he can still be a solid offensive player, along with the most insane shot blocker in the NBA (though Josh Smith gives him a run for his money).

I think if they expect to win in the playoffs, they must trade Boozer. He's simply too short and unathletic to competently guard Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett etc.

If I were the Jazz, I'd try to pry Al Jefferson from the Celtics. Throw in next years first rounder and take Raef LaFrenz's crappy contract, you might get a deal.

Then your lineup is:

PG Deron Williams
SG Snyder/Harpring/Mills
SF Kirlenko/Harpring
PF Jefferson/Humphries
C Okur/Bordacht

[3074326]

thats crazy talk....because there was no talk about Haslem not being able to be 100% the whole game, and prone to injury...
but then again, he went to Europe and was undrafted..
We got lucky with him, so I'm a bit nervous if he does leave....

Damon Jones just declined player option so now HE'S a free agent and I'm a bit pissed.

FUUUCK

Haha, have you seen Simien play? If not, I wouldn't be too worried if Simien replaces him.

[Illmatic]

If I were the Jazz, I'd try to pry Al Jefferson from the Celtics. Throw in next years first rounder and take Raef LaFrenz's crappy contract, you might get a deal.

:lol:

Are you nuts? The Celtics are crazy over Al Jefferson, and they're not going to trade him for Boozer and a #1, even if they dump LaFrentz in the process. They don't want another draft pick because they already have too many kids, and Big Al is probably better than the guy they'd get at the #1. Big Al and G-Money (Gerald Green) are basically the future of the franchise; all they want are some veterans to stabilize the clubhouse. At this point I think they would have to be offered KG or Duncan straight-up to trade Big Al.

BTW, it's Bibby, not Peja, that is the cornerstone of the Kings; I think we all saw it three years ago when Bibby put a deer-in-the-headlights Kings team on his back and took the Lakers to Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals. And the whole problem with the Griz is that they HAVE no cornerstone. For the past two years that's what everyone's been saying: "Well, they have about nine or ten solid guys, but no star".

And yes, Kukoc has averaged 18 ppg. On crappy Bulls and Hawks teams where they basically let him take as many shots as he wanted. And as for Kukoc, Turkoglu, and Krstic: I think "impact" should be regarded as more than just how many points you can score. Jalen Rose scored points too, but is not considered an impact player on any team he's been on (well, not in terms of having a positive impact, at least).

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

Illmatic:

I beg to differ.

Bibby may be clutch, and have some big games.
But it remains that cool headed Peja has always been the BIGGEST offensive threat on the team, and you can never leave him open.
People underestimate him...but he's a solid 20 ppg player.

Bibby is more popular, thats all. All these little punk kids who are NBA fans wear their Bibby jerseys, and don't even KNOW who Peja or Brad Miller are.

You're talking about one game...Peja sucked in the playoffs most years, but this year was the turnaround. Peja was the man to go to, and he led his team despite having been injured prior.

[Illmatic]

Look, ever since CWebb and Divac left, Peja was exposed as someone who can't create his own shot or create shots for teammates. Add that on to the fact that he's a poor rebounder for a forward and a poor defender, and suddenly all you have is a guy who can score 20 points if he gets enough open shots. THAT is the cornerstone of the Kings' franchise? I sure hope not.

[MattSharpIsCool]

I'm inclined to agree with Illmatic.

Mike Bibby is the best and most important player on the Kings. Followed by Brad Miller. Followed by Peja. A 20 PPG guy is nice, but like Ill mentioned, if thats all he does, he'll never be the man on his team.

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

Peja is a decent rebounder and defender...his game was not the greatest this year.
Remember last season (not this one) Peja was the second top scorer in the NBA.

His game changed once Webber left this year.

But its funny, because it seems as if all European players have some sort of weakness and conditions attached to them. Every single one.

We all know he struggles, but he's one of my favorite players and I have a bias I guess.

Lets see what happens next year.

[Hababi]

BTW, it's Bibby, not Peja, that is the cornerstone of the Kings; I think we all saw it three years ago when Bibby put a deer-in-the-headlights Kings team on his back and took the Lakers to Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals. And the whole problem with the Griz is that they HAVE no cornerstone. For the past two years that's what everyone's been saying: "Well, they have about nine or ten solid guys, but no star".


Bibby had one great playoff series. Besides that, he's a good PG but not the cornerstone.


And yes, Kukoc has averaged 18 ppg. On crappy Bulls and Hawks teams where they basically let him take as many shots as he wanted.


Excuses excuses. I could say the same thing about Allen Iverson.


if thats all he does, he'll never be the man on his team.


Dominique Wilkins?

[Illmatic]

Dominique Wilkins?

There's a reason 'Nique never made it out of round 2.

Bibby had one great playoff series. Besides that, he's a good PG but not the cornerstone.

Like Peja is?

Excuses excuses. I could say the same thing about Allen Iverson.

You could.

You'd be wrong, but you could. Which is why it is misleading simply to base things on statistics. Desmond Mason average 18 points per game last year, but that doesn't make him a good player by any stretch of the imagination.

[Hababi]

You'd be wrong, but you could. Which is why it is misleading simply to base things on statistics. Desmond Mason average 18 points per game last year, but that doesn't make him a good player by any stretch of the imagination.


You don't think Mason's a good player??? He's not an all star, but he's still a quality player.




There's a reason 'Nique never made it out of round 2.


Kevin Garnett only has once, doesn't make him any less of a player. And, Wilkens was still THE man on his teams, despite being a one dimensional player.

[Illmatic]

You don't think Mason's a good player??? He's not an all star, but he's still a quality player.

I'm one of the few diehard NBA fans left on the planet, and when I saw that Mason averaged 18 points per game last season, I thought, "Wait, Desmond Mason averaged 18 points per game?"

That's a telling sign, I think.

Kevin Garnett only has once, doesn't make him any less of a player. And, Wilkens was still THE man on his teams, despite being a one dimensional player

KG still has time. :eng101"

[Illmatic]

BTW, I'm not a big fan of the Knicks' draft. One thing that bothers me about Channing Frye is that he never averaged more than 8 rebounds per game in college. But once again, they provided a highlight of the draft: The entire crowd booing their selection of David Lee, followed by a camera closeup of a horrified Spike Lee. Almost up there with Stu Scott's interview of Deron Williams.

[Hababi]

One thing that bothers me about Channing Frye is that he never averaged more than 8 rebounds per game in college.


Frye isn't a blue collar rebounder at the center spot, he's more a finesse center, like Brad Miller. Sweetny has the size and strength to be a monster on the boards, so I don't think that should be much of a concern. If Frye pulls down 7 and Sweetny pulls down 11, that's still 18 rebounds a night from the front court.

As for David Lee, the New York fans just don't like white players, I think that's the only feasable reason. The guy has NBA athleticism and a nice set of skills. And, he always gives 100%. At the least, he'll be a more athletic Brian Cardinal, and that isn't too shabby for pick number 30.

[Understanding In a Crash]

BTW, I'm not a big fan of the Knicks' draft. One thing that bothers me about Channing Frye is that he never averaged more than 8 rebounds per game in college. But once again, they provided a highlight of the draft: The entire crowd booing their selection of David Lee, followed by a camera closeup of a horrified Spike Lee. Almost up there with Stu Scott's interview of Deron Williams.
I liked David Stern not knowing what year it is :thumb:

[Illmatic]

Frye isn't a blue collar rebounder at the center spot, he's more a finesse center, like Brad Miller.

Even Miller can haul down 9 or 10 boards a night, though.

Other highlights from the draft:
- Stu Scott ending his interview with Deron Williams by saying, "Mike, seven tatoos on this man, still, character--all the time, character" followed by a confused Deron staring at him in disbelief
- Rashad McCants taking so long to high-five and hug members of his posse that David Stern actually zoned out at the podium, followed by McCants having to tap him on the shoulder for a handshake
- Jerry West saying that Hakim Warrick was "a very good player at Princeton"
- the "Must Improve: Overall Skills" blurb on the draft profile for Ian Mahinmi (winner of the Logan Mankins Award for the "well, he definitely shouldn't have gone here, but we can't really criticize a move the Spurs make" factor)
- Julius Hodge explaining that he became a basketball fan when, during a Lakers-Knicks game at MSG, Magic Johnson winked at him as he "glazed into the crowd"

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

I'm one of the few diehard NBA fans left on the planet, and when I saw that Mason averaged 18 points per game last season, I thought, "Wait, Desmond Mason averaged 18 points per game?"

That's a telling sign, I think.



KG still has time. :eng101"


SA?

[Illmatic]

What is "SA?" supposed to mean?

/is clueless

[PimpDaddyKabZ]

where does :eng101: come from then

[Hababi]

- the "Must Improve: Overall Skills" blurb on the draft profile for Ian Mahinmi (winner of the Logan Mankins Award for the "well, he definitely shouldn't have gone here, but we can't really criticize a move the Spurs make" factor)


:lol:



Even Miller can haul down 9 or 10 boards a night, though.


Sure, so that's one area of Frye's game that is currently lacking (he could still add some muscle and become a better rebounder). Frye can hit the mid range jumper and has solid size and speed. He's like a more healthy, more athletic Curtis Bordacht.

[Illmatic]

Sure, so that's one area of Frye's game that is currently lacking (he could still add some muscle and become a better rebounder). Frye can hit the mid range jumper and has solid size and speed. He's like a more healthy, more athletic Curtis Bordacht.

Oh my god, that is a burn for the ages.

[Hababi]

Oh my god, that is a burn for the ages.


Bordacht would've developed into a good NBA player had it not been for the injury problems.

[Illmatic]

Bordacht would've developed into a good NBA player had it not been for the injury problems.

And his glaring lack of athleticism.

[Hababi]

And his glaring lack of athleticism.


It doesn't hurt Brad Miller.

[Illmatic]

Miller has a far more diverse skillset than Borchardt.

[Hababi]

The point still remains that a player can become an all star even with sub par athleticism.

[Illmatic]

Not if they have no recognizable skills.

IE - Borchardt, Greg Ostertag, Andrew DeClerq

[Hababi]

Bordacht is a good shooter out to mid range and a capable shot blocker.

Ostertag only got drafted because he played well against Bryant Reeves and had super long arms

DeClerq...I don't know why he was drafted :lol:

[Illmatic]

Bordacht is a good shooter out to mid range and a capable shot blocker

Borchardt is a capable midrange shooter as long as he's open, which makes it not worth it.

And I think DeClerq might be the worst basketball player of the past 25 years, if not of all time.

[Hababi]

And I think DeClerq might be the worst basketball player of the past 25 years, if not of all time.


He may be the worst to last past his rookie contract and get a large new contract...then again, Adonal Foyle? Jim McIlvayne? There's been several big, mostly unskilled centers to get contracts in recent years.

[MattSharpIsCool]

What about Shaq? That guy sucks too.

[Illmatic]

He may be the worst to last past his rookie contract and get a large new contract...then again, Adonal Foyle? Jim McIlvayne? There's been several big, mostly unskilled centers to get contracts in recent years.

Well, Foyle is at least a competent shotblocker.

What about Shaq? That guy sucks too

Huh?

[MattSharpIsCool]

Eh, I was bored and felt like making a stupid comment.