Ear Training Thread

[gaslight]

Hey, alright, this is the Ear Training Thread. It is the thread for posting resources and discussion relating to Ear Training, so like, ear recognition of intervals, triads, seventh chords, scales, modes, and things of that nature.

I can start us off for some resources:

musictheory.net features programs that are useful as trainers for Intervals, Scales, and Chords.

Anyway, hopefully enough people do this stuff, for this thread to work.

[Trigger_003]

http://chrisjuergensen.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/ears_article.htm
^ This is an article on ear training. Mainly providing some examples of songs that you can use to identify intervals. It might might help some people.

[gaslight]

Good article :).

I wish I had started this kind of training sooner, it's really cool and an incredible advantage if you want to be a professional musician.

[SRVFan2005]

This is a fun topic for me. Last year I heard about the David Lucas Burge Perfect Pitch training course. I looked into it and it was roughly $150 for like 8 cds. Now, I was also put off by the weak and suspicious ad in GuitarONE and GuitarWorld. I "acquired" the cds and I have to say, They work. I didn't have time to finish all the MasterClasses, but I was on like 12 out of 23.(24 with an extra) The idea is to reprogram your mind to see notes as what it feels like. For example, play through the scale, the two notes of most drawing catch is C and F#. F# has kind of a twangy sound and is really drawing so it is a shade of Red. C is the next color which I assigned to Green, a lively color and the way I see it, in the dark, those two colors are the most eye catching light, next being a Yellow, which I catergorized as a D.

Basically I made up my own technique using this program, take the visible spectrum.
ROY G BIV then, place the Notes under it
FED C BAG. I found this totally by accident it turned out, because as I was assigning the colors to notes, I noticed I used the visible spectrum and just mixed it up. Ultimately, you have to practice all this. Pick two notes, one known, one as unknown as possible. Without looking down, use your ear, sing, whatever, to figure out what the other note is. Then do it by interval. This will commit distance to memory. Your goal is to either pick a note, by itself, at random an name that or get a friend to pick a note on a different instrument and name that.

Hope all that makes sense. I tried to use that good-ear.com, the hardest part of ear training is the chords, cause of so many inversions. Anyone can help me build up that part of my ear.

[gaslight]

Oh cool, that sounds interesting.

Some people have a condition known as synesthesia, where their body responds differently to musical notes. Some people feel a different taste for different notes, or actually see different colours and shades.

Personally the method I am using at the moment is just distance recognition, which works more to developing relative pitch.

[zero_net]

I have the David Lucas Berge cds, i'm still on like masterclass 6 !!!!
for like 6 months !!!

my ears r poor, i've only started enjoying music 4 years ago

any tips for me ?

[gaslight]

I've only been doing Ear Training for about 3 or 4 months now at the most after playing without it for about 4 years.

The only tips I have come across so far are consistent practice, having access to a keyboard is very helpful for learning intervals, modes, scales, chords.

[SRVFan2005]

You actually bought the cds Zero Net?

The trick is to use EVERYTHING he tells you. Just practice.

Synaethesia is also a literary turn which means to assign of sense to something different. Like saying the room smelled purple, ect. When I hear single notes, I see the color flash in my eyes if I concentrate. It's getting better so I don't have to concentrate as hard. Next, I hope to be able to just hear and recognize. Then I'll work the chords and inversions.

I think despite what my 4th grade band teacher said, I may have perfect pitch. But since I was told I was tone deaf I never used it much and thus I have to "discover" it. I can feel my ears hearing more everyday though. Still can't transcribe a song yet, but it's mostly cause I can't figure out the chord stuff.

[gaslight]

What does tone deaf actually mean? Is it a real condition where people can't hear tones properly, or is it just a figure of speech?

[Trigger_003]

Not sure about that one.

I was going to post this this morning but Mx wasn't working...
http://www.cyberfretbass.com/ear-training/index.php <- check out some of the links on that page. I suggest Musictheory.net over Big Ears though (better quality recordings).

http://www.miles.be/ <- large ear training resource. Includes articles and a freeware trainer, Functional Ear Trainer that sounds quite good. I don't really know what it's like, I've just heard good things. I'm going to check it out this weekend.

[miku]

What does tone deaf actually mean? Is it a real condition where people can't hear tones properly, or is it just a figure of speech?
I think David Burge answers this fairly well.
As a result of a one-sided attention favoring the sense of sight, most ears are still "sleeping" to greater possibilities of experience and are not fully enlivened to more abstract values of sound. It is as if the ear has taken on some dullness or laziness because it has never really had to listen intently. The so-called "tone deaf" individual is largely a myth. Most people labelled as tone deaf appear so only due to lack of musical development rather than to any real disability in hearing pitches.
If someone was literally tone deaf, they wouldn't really enjoy music would they?

[Benzum]

www.good-ear.com

[zero_net]

yes i bought the course,i'm dedicated,

i suddenly became obssessed with music,
its hard to believe that i use to hate it.

i'm trying to sing 3 tones played harmonically

i can never hear the center, i can usually hear the low & the highest only.

[SRVFan2005]

Well, I was surprised because I just downloaded it. It's definately NOT worth the money. Great to have but alot of it is only helpful in the first few Master Classes.

You are doing the exact thing David suggests not doing. You are trying to force it. It seems you need to expose yourself first. If you JUST started music, listen to bands and such and just relax with it.


Tone-deafness is somewhat real. Basically, it's not being able to hear the difference in pitch. IE not being able to tell if a C is different from a G. Alot of people who listen to Popular music have it. *Ba-zing*

[aftermid]

I looked into the David Burge course. It seemed there was alot BS and anecdotes about his life on it. When he got down to the course, he'd recommend you listen to a tone and name it. "Well, If I could do that I'd have perfect pitch David". Hellooo. Anyways this course seemed useless to me. He never really tells what the difference between the tones are or what specifically to listen for. What is that intrinsic difference between tones? Just so know, I've been a professional musician for about 20 yrs. I get around using relative pitch (intervals, etc.) I'm very interested in AP and if there was a legitimate course, I'd buy it. I've seen the Graham English advertising and people have given it mixed reviews. I'd really like to acquire AP, does anyone know of a course that works, other than the David Burge course?

[musicmanjh]

I was surfing the web and found this forum.. read this thread and had to add to it.. 2 years ago I purchased ( YES PURCHASED) David’s Relative and perfect pitch courses. I finished both courses. To tell everyone the truth Relative pitch is a tool GOOD musician's cannot live without. If you can’t hear the difference between 2 different intervals you shouldn’t be writing music until you can. As for David's perfect pitch course.. YES IT WORKS! The reason he doesn’t give you sounds to listen for on every note (ex. F# "twangy") is because he’s showing you how to LISTEN -- NOT associate. Plus the fact that most people do not interpret things like sounds, smell, colors, conversations etc the same way. "twangy" to one person might be "tinty" to another. Another thing is that David also states that perfect pitch is NOT color association!!!!! People need to understand this.. The whole point of comparing musical notes to colors is that you don’t have to compare RED to GREEN to know that RED is RED ... you just know because of its obvious differences. Each note has its own "feeling" that sets it apart. That "feeling" will be different to everyone. What David tries to do is show you how to LISTEN for yourself. The problem that those who don’t like his course on perfect pitch have is that they thought they were buying perfect pitch - which you can’t do. In reality, if you buy his course, you are buying a road map to perfect pitch.
Here’s my summary on David Lucas's courses. . .
Relative Pitch course: Priceless - I thought I knew what each interval was until I took one of his "lightning rounds" and found that my ear was shotty at best and very slow.---If anyone wants to know more details about this course, ask, and ill post more.
Perfect Pitch course: It works if you follow EXACTLY what he says to do. Keep in mind that you’re buying instructions on how to attain PC. The whole PC course can be summed up with this statement:

You cannot acquire perfect pitch by memorizing notes. You have to listen for the SUBTLE differences. Once you find them, keep Listening... in time each note will sound as different to you as RED does from GREEN. And most importantly, if you have a bad ear (meaning, you can’t tell a perfect 4th from a maj. 3rd) you WILL NOT attain perfect pitch without LOTS Of ear training first.

[miku]

Excellent post, musicmanjh.

Aftermid: Think about it this way. And this is analogously speaking here. Say you can see colors fine, just like people usually do, but there are lots of people in the world who can't, and see it more like a grayscale. Obviously, being able to see colors can be very fun. How do you teach other people to see colors so that they don't have to compare two shades of grey to see which is which? You can't exactly describe the colors to them, can you? What does green look like? Well... it looks like green. How do you put that into words? There are a few that you can kind of put into words, but it's still very ambiguous to someone who can't see them. Lavender is cool, soft, mellow. Red is vibrant, hot, etc.

The way to go about it is to find a way that people can look at these colors, and practice, that will lead to their own gradual development of the ability.

Now I'm not saying that color blind people can develop an ability to see colors normally; I don't really know much of anything about color blindness. But the point is that David Lucas Burge's method of developing absolute pitch has worked, for me, and for plenty of other people. Like a lot of musicians, I tried to develop it on my own but failed, before finding this method.

Anyway, I think that if you listen to his lectures, and do the exercises with a very skeptical mindset, you probably won't develop it. Just take it slow, try not to be overly skeptical, do all the exercises he tells you to do, even the ones that you would have to have AP already in order to do without error. Because when you make an error, if you correct yourself and listen very relaxedly to the wrong tone and the right tone, that is where a lot of the culturing takes place.

To someone who already has a very good sense of relative pitch (like me, and like you), many of the exercises will seem ridiculously easy, but do them anyway, and don't worry if you're cheating by using relative pitch without meaning to. As long as you try to listen deep within the tones, even though you will often find yourself using relative pitch, the development of perfect pitch will eventually happen.
I found that when perfect pitch was first starting to manifest itself every now and then, I would hear a pitch and just plain know what it is immediately before getting the chance to think relatively. This is part of why you don't need to play a bunch of random notes on the keys or not listen to music for a long time between each test of your AP. If you're thinking on the right level at the time of testing yourself on a certain note, you'll know before thinking relatively, if not, you might find it relatively, but by listening to the tone deeply and not worrying about how you just 'cheated', you're helping to develop the ability still.

[Trigger_003]

Nice post, as usual :)

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

What does tone deaf actually mean? Is it a real condition where people can't hear tones properly, or is it just a figure of speech?
I think it's the same as being colour-blind. David Burge (yes I've heard his stuff) explains it best. The following isn't what he said word-for-word, but it's how I interpreted it:

"Look at a stop sign. What colour is it? Most of you would say red. Why is this? I think it's because we have been brought up to believe that when we see an expression of 700 trillion [not exact] light waves per second, it shows a colour that we have been brought up to believe is called 'red'. Tell me this; if our eyes can do that, we can't our ears hear an expression of 440 soundwaves per second and say 'that's an A'? Simply enough - our ears can do that. It's just a matter of training them to recognise the pitch. Each note has a certain characteristic that defines it."

I think it's something along those lines. It makes a lot of sense to me...

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Bump for Matt, :wave:

[gaslight]

Oh thanks man - read it and forgot to reply yesterday :thumb:.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

:lol: :chug:

[musicmanjh]

Im interested to find out: how many people in this forum have relative pitch? And not just a "thats the wedding song interval" type of understanding. I mean full blown relative pitch where you here a chord and know what kind it is and what inversion. When you hear a melody or chord progression you know exactly whats going on without tinkering with your instrument.
This is an ear training thread....so it might be cool if people post their ear training methods or experiences. So in a way to take this whole topic out of the abstract and into practical application for all. Id love to help anyone out I could with the little I know.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Well, I'm weird.

More than 95% of the time, I know the note on the piano, just like perfect pitch, but I don't know the note on other instruments or, for instance, when someone's singing.

But, it's weird, like, they'll play a C and a G and in under 1/10 of a second I will go "that's the first two notes in the start of the interlude of Future Breed Machine" and will be able to name the notes in under a second.

*shrug*

EDIT: Also, if someone sings a note, and I play, for example a B, and it's wrong, I can get it the next note I play, 100% of the time. I guess that's what you'd call relative pitch? Realising and interpreting the relationship between two notes?

[gaslight]

I'm working towards developing/improving relative pitch in my uni course and home practice. I'm getting much better at interval recognition.

[miku]

Im interested to find out: how many people in this forum have relative pitch? And not just a "thats the wedding song interval" type of understanding. I mean full blown relative pitch where you here a chord and know what kind it is and what inversion. When you hear a melody or chord progression you know exactly whats going on without tinkering with your instrument.I have full blown relative pitch. When I hear a melody or chord progression I know exactly what's going on without tinkering with my instrument. I can play songs by ear better than most people.
This is an ear training thread....so it might be cool if people post their ear training methods or experiences. So in a way to take this whole topic out of the abstract and into practical application for all. Id love to help anyone out I could with the little I know.However, my relative pitch came to me naturally, so I don't know how much help I can offer.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

However, my relative pitch came to me naturally, so I don't know how much help I can offer.
Same here.

But music runs in my family. My dad's mum was an amazing pianist for over 80 years and still going. My mum was a pianist for 40 years and still going, my mum's mum was a pianist for 60 years and still going, and my mum's grandmother was a pianist for I don't know how long.

Because of this, I have been involved in music since a very very early age, and have played the piano since I was 7.

I think this is why my ears are so sensitive to the piano, :p

[asanti]

To 'musicmanjh' and 'miku' (or everyone who has done this course) ,

Hi guys, i read your posts about the david lucas burge perfect pitch supercourse and i was wondering if you could give some advice
I'm on masterclass 6, where i have to sing 3-note-chords in an octave and in two octaves or more. The thing is that i'm doing the exercises every day, singing the 3 notes and the meditation exercise with A and B (think of an A, check it and then get the B, etc...) but i still can't hear those colors on the notes ( i know is not about red or blue, it is a kind of quality/sound), every night i spend half an hour in the dark playing the cromatic scale from C to C trying to hear any color but i still don't get it, i can listen to some harmonics of every note (like the 5th in all the notes), some vibrations (different vibrations in a note) but that's it. Am i going in the right direction? is there any hearing method?
Thank you very much!
:thumb:

[miku]

To 'musicmanjh' and 'miku' (or everyone who has done this course) ,

Hi guys, i read your posts about the david lucas burge perfect pitch supercourse and i was wondering if you could give some advice
I'm on masterclass 6, where i have to sing 3-note-chords in an octave and in two octaves or more. The thing is that i'm doing the exercises every day, singing the 3 notes and the meditation exercise with A and B (think of an A, check it and then get the B, etc...) but i still can't hear those colors on the notes ( i know is not about red or blue, it is a kind of quality/sound), every night i spend half an hour in the dark playing the cromatic scale from C to C trying to hear any color but i still don't get it, i can listen to some harmonics of every note (like the 5th in all the notes), some vibrations (different vibrations in a note) but that's it. Am i going in the right direction? is there any hearing method?
Thank you very much!
:thumb:
Just do the exercises as instructed, try to listen deeply in the notes (but don't worry about it too much), and do a, what's it called.. 'verification round'. Even if you don't think you're hearing the colors, you're making your way towards that end.

[scotch]

I didn't read all of these posts thoroughly, but it seems to me the method of learning perfect pitch by listening carefully to the sounds various pitches entail should work for specific instruments, but should not generalize (should not generally generalize, if you will) to abstract pitches played by any instrument. Moreover, perfect pitch only on the instrument you play is a very common kind of perfect pitch.

Whether you should want perfect pitch is another matter. My theory (and, although I have not tested it systematically, I do have empirical evidence to support it) is that we are all born with perfect pitch (general perfect pitch, that is, not instrument-specific perfect pitch), but most of us learn to suppress it at a very early age because it occurs to most of us at an early age that the music of our culture is predicated on RELATIVE pitch, not perfect pitch. I tend to think, further, that those of us who do not learn to suppress our natural perfect pitch have a rather skewed outlook on the world in...um...general.

[miku]

I didn't read all of these posts thoroughly, but it seems to me the method of learning perfect pitch by listening carefully to the sounds various pitches entail should work for specific instruments, but should not generalize (should not generally generalize, if you will) to abstract pitches played by any instrument. Moreover, perfect pitch only on the instrument you play is a very common kind of perfect pitch.
It actually does do that eventually. I haven't even finished the course yet, and I've recognized pitches from blown beer bottles, rock songs, etc. Heck I just correctly guessed that this GY!BE song I'm listening to is in B-flat right now.

I can do pitch recall too really often, that's where you produce a pitch from nothing. It generally helps if I talk or think abstractly about the key. For example, if I'm trying to produce B in my head, it helps to just think something like "the mellow and melancholy yet somewhat light key of B minor" and the pitch kinda appears in my head.

[scotch]

It actually does do that eventually. I haven't even finished the course yet, and I've recognized pitches from blown beer bottles, rock songs, etc. Heck I just correctly guessed that this GY!BE song I'm listening to is in B-flat right now.

In the first place, if you're playing your radio or your stereo or your whatever while you post, you are NOT "listening" to it. In the second place, to the extent this huckster's system works, it likely works only because it taps into our innate sense of perfect pitch. In the third place, as I've already noted, we suppress this innate sense for a very good reason. It's sad that this thread has rapidly degenerated into a series of shills.

[miku]

In the first place, if you're playing your radio or your stereo or your whatever while you post, you are NOT "listening" to it. In the second place, to the extent this huckster's system works, it likely works only because it taps into our innate sense of perfect pitch. In the third place, as I've already noted, we suppress this innate sense for a very good reason. It's sad that this thread has rapidly degenerated into a series of shills.
I'm gonna have to just plain disagree with what you're saying.

A) It's possible that it's an innate ability that we suppress, but regardless, the point is that the course works.

B) You think our music is based on relative pitch and not perfect pitch? I don't think it's 'predicated' on either. But both abilities are important in conjunction with each other. With relative pitch, we hear how the intervals in our music make scientific sense and appreciate it, with absolute pitch, we appreciate the subtle differences between the tones in the same way we appreciate differences between colors.
If our music was predicated on relative pitch and absolute pitch is bad, then our pianos wouldn't be in equal-temperament tuning. We'd write music all in one key, because after all, if our music is not based whatsoever on absolute pitch, what's the point of writing a piece of music in anything other than C?

C) How can you say having absolute pitch gives one a "rather skewed outlook on the world in.. um.. general"? Have you "tapped into" your absolute pitch? Can you give me an example of how this insanely useful and ridiculously fun ability "skews" my outlook on the world? Can you show me any of your empirical evidence? Does it actually exist?

D) Yes, I was listening to it. I stopped typing for a moment, thought "B-flat," and resumed.

[Sun Ray™]

I was once out at a club, and a song came on, and two girls, who I'm assuming don't play guitar, heard the first chord and knew exactly what the song was.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

^ Bah, that's nothing to do with good ears, that's just memory, IMO.

[asanti]

Miku,
in what masterclass did you started to hear some colors in the notes?
how much time take you to hear them?

[gaslight]

It's sad that every discussion of ear training is doomed to turn an argument about this David Burge's course.

:angry:

[scotch]

It's sad that every discussion of ear training is doomed to turn an argument about this David Burge's course.

:angry:

I strongly agree with you, but I am nevertheless obliged, I think to answer miku, if briefly. Apparently, the reason we have to bother with this David Burge guy, though, is simply that he's taken out a L-O-T of magazine ads, and they're pretty coarse, even as magazine ads tend to go. That people are actually paying for his wares says quite a lot, unfortunately, about our (lack of) culture.

[scotch]

B) You think our music is based on relative pitch and not perfect pitch? I don't think it's 'predicated' on either. But both abilities are important in conjunction with each other. With relative pitch, we hear how the intervals in our music make scientific sense and appreciate it, with absolute pitch, we appreciate the subtle differences between the tones in the same way we appreciate differences between colors.

That's just wack--and I say this as a synaesthetic myself.

If our music was predicated on relative pitch and absolute pitch is bad, then our pianos wouldn't be in equal-temperament tuning. We'd write music all in one key, because after all, if our music is not based whatsoever on absolute pitch, what's the point of writing a piece of music in anything other than C?

You've got this completely backward, pal. Of course the key in which many pieces are written has merely to do with the ranges of the instruments involved and similar considerations, but when we change keys, as for example, when the second movement of a symphony goes to the subdominant, it is for contrast, which is to say that we are concerned with the RELATION of the keys, which has to do with RELATIVE pitch--hence the name--NOT perfect pitch. Our music is not concerned with the sounds of individual notes (if it were it would be an iincredibly primitive art); it is concerned with the relations between and among notes, which is the thing that makes COMPOSITION possible.



C) How can you say having absolute pitch gives one a "rather skewed outlook on the world in.. um.. general"? Have you "tapped into" your absolute pitch? Can you give me an example of how this insanely useful and ridiculously fun ability "skews" my outlook on the world? Can you show me any of your empirical evidence?

I've inadvertantly tapped into my innate perfect pitch from time to time--which is the empirical evidence of which I speak. I haven't time just now to relate the anecdotes--maybe tomorrow. I also haven't time to expand on what I mean by skewing one's outlook on the world, which is a subject that extends well beyond music, a subject I find fascinating, in fact. The general idea, however, is that choices we make when we are extremely young affect the very structures of our brains, and it is important to make the right choices.

[miku]

That's just wack--and I say this as a synaesthetic myself.
Perfect pitch is not synesthesia. References to colors are purely analogous.
You've got this completely backward, pal. Of course the key in which many pieces are written has merely to do with the ranges of the instruments involved and similar considerations, but when we change keys, as for example, when the second movement of a symphony goes to the subdominant, it is for contrast, which is to say that we are concerned with the RELATION of the keys, which has to do with RELATIVE pitch--hence the name--NOT perfect pitch.
Yeah, I overlooked the fact that key changes are often made for contrast. However, do you seriously think Chopin's A-flat Etude (op.. 28? no 1, i think) would have the right sound in say, A major? I would strongly disagree. It would sound good, but it drastically changes the flavor of the piece.
That and you ignore the fact that PIANO music, which has an essentially all-encompassing range, has pieces in all different keys, even ones where there are no key changes.
Our music is not concerned with the sounds of individual notes (if it were it would be an iincredibly primitive art); it is concerned with the relations between and among notes, which is the thing that makes COMPOSITION possible.
How would it be a primitive art? And no, relations between notes is not the thing that makes composition possible, it is one of the things that makes composition possible. Other aspects of composition include rhythm (the way notes, rests, and stresses are organized over time), and choices in absolute pitches used.
I've inadvertantly tapped into my innate perfect pitch from time to time--which is the empirical evidence of which I speak. I haven't time just now to relate the anecdotes--maybe tomorrow.
"Maybe tomorrow." In other words, never.

Most people perceive pieces of music to take on a subtly different sound when transposed by a half step (other than the fact that it's higher or lower). To say our music doesn't, or shouldn't, have to do with absolute pitch, is just ludicrous.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Hey miku, I'm on your side with this, but I'm having trouble with one thing you said:

Other aspects of composition include rhythm (the way notes, rests, and stresses are organized over time), and choices in absolute pitches used.
I think our "choices in absolute pitches" are a reflection of the relationship between certain notes.

[miku]

Hey miku, I'm on your side with this, but I'm having trouble with one thing you said:


I think our "choices in absolute pitches" are a reflection of the relationship between certain notes.
I was referring to why Fantasie Impromptu is in C# minor instead of say, G# minor (would have a similar finger pattern), why that etude I mentioned is in A-flat and not C major, why my piece "Reminiscence" is in C minor as opposed to any other key. I find that, while contrast is often a reason for the tonality chosen, the absolute sound is often the other reason.

When I choose a key to write a new piece in, I don't think "ok, gotta avoid C, and.. what haven't I used yet?" I think, "which tonality best fits the mood I'm going for?" and pick accordingly.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Ah, now that makes sense.

I interpreted that as you implying "if we play a C, and then go to an E, it is a reflection of absolute pitches of notes", and I was arguing that to go from a C to an E because it 'sounds good' would infact be a reflection of our relative pitch instead.

But thanks for clarifying.

[miku]

Ah, now that makes sense.

I interpreted that as you implying "if we play a C, and then go to an E, it is a reflection of absolute pitches of notes", and I was arguing that to go from a C to an E because it 'sounds good' would infact be a reflection of our relative pitch instead.

But thanks for clarifying.
Ah, yeah. My stance is that relative pitch is extremely important, and perfect pitch less so, but still has a significant place in our music.

Scotch seems to be arguing that not only does the ability of perfect pitch not have any importance, but it actually has negative effects (a skewed outlook on life).

[scotch]

Perfect pitch is not synesthesia. References to colors are purely analogous.

The ANALOGY is wack, Jack.

Yeah, I overlooked the fact that key changes are often made for contrast. However, do you seriously think Chopin's A-flat Etude (op.. 28? no 1, i think) would have the right sound in say, A major? I would strongly disagree. It would sound good, but it drastically changes the flavor of the piece.
That and you ignore the fact that PIANO music, which has an essentially all-encompassing range, has pieces in all different keys, even ones where there are no key changes.

1) The piano certainly does NOT have an all-encompassing range. 2) It would generally be inadvisable to give an entire concert of short piano pieces in the same key. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the sounds of individual notes in isolation. It has to do, rather, with the contrast, which is to say, RELATION, of keys. That's one reason piano pieces are written in various keys. 3) You implied before that equal-temperament is on your side. Again, you've got it completely backward. Before equal-temperament, keys on many instruments, especially keyboard instruments, actually did sound different from each other, internally, that is, not just in contrast to each other. Many of these associations persist today in equal-temperament, although they no longer have any logical basis. 4) A low C on a cello, for example, sounds very different from a low Db on a cello, but that has only to do with the particular resonance on that particular instrument. A composer may very well write a piece in C minor, rather than Db minor, for the cello for that reason, but that has nothing to do with absolute pitch; it has only to do with the particular resonance characteristics of particular instruments. In other words, there are many reasons a composer might pick one key over another that have nothing to do with absolute pitch, and I couldn't possibly list them all here. The few I mentioned before were certainly not intended to be exhaust them; they were merely examples.


How would it be a primitive art?

It would be primitive because you would not be dealing with complex relations. You would merely be dealing with individual notes in isolation. That should be self-evident and require no explanation.

And no, relations between notes is not the thing that makes composition possible, it is one of the things that makes composition possible. Other aspects of composition include rhythm (the way notes, rests, and stresses are organized over time), and choices in absolute pitches used.

In respect to pitch material, obviously, it is what makes composition possible. Rhythm is completely off topic.


"Maybe tomorrow." In other words, never.

You're an awfully presumptious and demanding little brat, aren't you? What do the details matter? In several instances I noticed myself to be unconsciously demonstrating perfect pitch. Since it was unconscious and not deliberate, I assume it to be innate. I may just be me, but I very much doubt it, and if you stop and think about it for one-half second, it shouldn't seem at all surprising.


Most people perceive pieces of music to take on a subtly different sound when transposed by a half step (other than the fact that it's higher or lower).

They perceive them to be higher or lower.

To say our music doesn't, or shouldn't, have to do with absolute pitch, is just ludicrous.

You're off your rocker.

[scotch]

Ah, yeah. My stance is that relative pitch is extremely important, and perfect pitch less so, but still has a significant place in our music.

Scotch seems to be arguing that not only does the ability of perfect pitch not have any importance, but it actually has negative effects (a skewed outlook on life).

Your outlook on life was very likely skewed long before you were suckered into buying Burge's junk, especially considering that you've completely missed my point about skewed outlooks. I was clearly talking about intelligence and early brain development. You're not likely going to get any appreciably smarter or stupider at this stage no matter what you do--unless you get hit on the head with a baseball bat or something.

[miku]

The ANALOGY is wack, Jack.
Your only explanation of this has been "I'm a synesthetic myself." As I already stated, that is irrelevant.
1) The piano certainly does NOT have an all-encompassing range. 2) It would generally be inadvisable to give an entire concert of short piano pieces in the same key. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the sounds of individual notes in isolation. It has to do, rather, with the contrast, which is to say, RELATION, of keys. That's one reason piano pieces are written in various keys. 3) You implied before that equal-temperament is on your side. Again, you've got it completely backward. Before equal-temperament, keys on many instruments, especially keyboard instruments, actually did sound different from each other, internally, that is, not just in contrast to each other. Many of these associations persist today in equal-temperament, although they no longer have any logical basis. 4) A low C on a cello, for example, sounds very different from a low Db on a cello, but that has only to do with the particular resonance on that particular instrument. A composer may very well write a piece in C minor, rather than Db minor, for the cello for that reason, but that has nothing to do with absolute pitch; it has only to do with the particular resonance characteristics of particular instruments. In other words, there are many reasons a composer might pick one key over another that have nothing to do with absolute pitch, and I couldn't possibly list them all here. The few I mentioned before were certainly not intended to be exhaust them; they were merely examples.
So in other words, your evidence that perfect pitch isn't a legitamite reason for writing pieces in different keys is that there are other reasons too. That doesn't cut it.
It would be primitive because you would not be dealing with complex relations. You would merely be dealing with individual notes in isolation. That should be self-evident and require no explanation.
You're assuming I mean relative pitch isn't/shouldn't be the primary aspect of music. As I've already said, that isn't the case. You seem to have this huge delusion that music has to be concerned with either relative pitch or absolute pitch, and it can't be concerned with both at the same time. Once you get over this delusion, you'll actually have a chance of understanding how wrong you are.
You're an awfully presumptious and demanding little brat, aren't you? What do the details matter? In several instances I noticed myself to be unconsciously demonstrating perfect pitch. Since it was unconscious and not deliberate, I assume it to be innate. I may just be me, but I very much doubt it, and if you stop and think about it for one-half second, it shouldn't seem at all surprising.
All you're doing at this point is making huge logical leaps and spouting insults in between.
They perceive them to be higher or lower.
My mom doesn't have perfect pitch. If I sit down at the piano and play Fantasie Impromptu for her in C minor, she'll know something's different. She doesn't know whether it's higher or lower, or even if it's in a different key at all.
You're off your rocker.Your outlook on life was very likely skewed long before you were suckered into buying Burge's junk, especially considering that you've completely missed my point about skewed outlooks. I was clearly talking about intelligence and early brain development. You're not likely going to get any appreciably smarter or stupider at this stage no matter what you do--unless you get hit on the head with a baseball bat or something.
You still fail to outline how not supressing this (as you assume to be fact) innate ability skews one's outlook on life. Whether or not most of us suppress it, the relevant part is what it does to negatively affect our outlook on life, if anything. If you don't know and can't rationally specify it, you have no right to be arguing your point.

It's simple common sense, if you can't actually explain your point, it means you DON'T KNOW why you hold your opinion, which means it's not an opinion you should have until you develop an understanding of what you're talking about.


Unless there's something you haven't told me, this is what the case is with you:
You have a belief based on two very weak logical foundations. Foundation #1 is your irrational belief that music can only be concerned with relative pitch or absolute pitch, not both at once. Foundation #2 comes from your experience of inadvertently demonstrating perfect pitch. Logical jump #1 from this foundation was that it must be an innate ability that most suppress. Logical jump #2 from this was that simply because most suppress it (assuming that as true), that it must therefore be a bad thing which negatively impairs one's outlook on life.
It just isn't proper reasoning.

[scotch]

Your only explanation of this has been "I'm a synesthetic myself." As I already stated, that is irrelevant.

I haven't proffered any explanation at all, and none is required. Why don't you go start a David Burge thread and leave the rest of us to discuss EAR TRAINING?


So in other words, your evidence that perfect pitch isn't a legitamite reason for writing pieces in different keys is that there are other reasons too. That doesn't cut it.

There's no fcuking "too" about it. There are various reasons, of which I've named many, and perfect pitch clearly ain't one of them.

You're assuming I mean relative pitch isn't/shouldn't be the primary aspect of music.

I'm assuming no such thing. Perfect pitch adds nothing whatsoever.


It's simple common sense

It's TAUTOLOGY, pal.


It just isn't proper reasoning.

How the fcuk would you know? Your whole argument amounts to, "Then why are pieces in different keys?" I cite many reasons, and then you say, "Okay these too, but that doesn't mean perfect pitch isn't also one." It means perfect pitch is not necessary to explain why there are different keys, and since this is your sole support, you lose. Since you fail to concede, it follows, ipso facto, quad erat demonstratum, that YOU either do not know or will not acknowledge "proper reasoning".

[miku]

There really wasn't anything new in that last post of yours. Just more insults.

Like I said before, I and most others perceive a different sound in the different keys. And music is all about how it's perceived. Unless, you want to accuse me and several other people of lying and change your overall point to "perfect pitch isn't useful," then that's a whole other thing.

But your point is that it's not useful AND it negatively affects one's outlook on life. You still fail to explain this properly.

If all you care about is calling me names and refusing to actually outline your argument properly, take it up with someone else. I'm not interested in such matters. I'm interested in a mature, rational discussion. Everything you say goes something like this: "Claim of empirical evidence. Statement that details/explanation isn't necessary. It should be obvious. Character attack."

[Trigger_003]

:lol:
But seriously, can we get over it?

[shishin]

To the masterclasses thing...I'm color blind.....Will it still work for me?

[miku]

To the masterclasses thing...I'm color blind.....Will it still work for me?
I don't know. I tend to think that color blindness wouldn't correlate to being able to discern pitches, but I don't really know anything about color blindness.

I'd say just download the first whatever masterclasses on Limewire and try it out.

[musicmanjh]

WOW- I've been out of town for a bit and I have to come home to a thread fight! lol Here is what I find very funny: "It's sad that this thread has rapidly degenerated into a series of shills." - scotch
Scotch even if you had a valid point it wouldn’t excuse your manners. It was pretty much YOU who "degenerated" this thread - no shills here.
I also find it funny that someone who "taps into his innate perfect pitch from TIME TO TIME" is an expert on perfect pitch. Try staying TAPPED in and then come back and add some worthwhile info. Aside from your horrible demeanor, you posted what could have been good topics for DISCUSSION but instead you chose to fight about it like a drunken Irish man on ST Patty’s day. GOOD JOB thanks for adding to this thread.

Perfect pitch is a skill we probably all share - but like any skill if we don’t use it, it becomes weaker. For most of us it’s so weak that we don’t even know we have the skill. Just because David Lucas Burge teaches people how to sharpen a skill they may already have doesn’t make him a "huckster." I didn’t even know it was possible to have perfect pitch until I heard about his course. Now that I can hear the difference between tones I can say that it is a great skill. Relative Pitch is essential for all musicians: Perfect Pitch is not, but it is a tool like many others that improves us as musicians. In a way it’s like the cherry on top of a Sunday. If I knew it was possible to hear “pitch colors” I could have worked on it alone... But David Burge is still one of the only people I’ve heard of who teaches people how to unlock this skill. I hate those Mag. Adds too… but I can’t deny that his course works. IVE COMPLETED THE COURSE so my opinion MATTERS.

I like how MIKU stayed on topic throughout this whole argument even when Scotch started to rant and rave about nothing. Calm and cool... very nice

[asanti]

Hey everyone,
I'm new here, i read a few posts about the David Lucas Burge supercourse, i've been working alone in this 'new thing' so it's kind of complicated sometimes to hear those colors (i know it's not about red or blue...) so it would be great if some of you who finished the course and are a living proof that it works, maybe you could share some tips or suggestions...
thanks!, by the way i'm still on masterclass 6...

[asanti]

I JUST STARTED A NEW THREAD ABOUT THE DAVID LUCAS BURGE SUPERCOURSE

Check it out! :thumb:

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Hey guess what!

Today in school, we all did seperate degree recognition tests, but the whole class was present, so we could hear other people taking their test, and I got 100% on everyone's test, :cool:.

At the end the teacher stood up and said "can I just say, I've been watching Gavin and he got 100% on everyone's test!", it was awesome.

:cool:

[gaslight]

Nice, what do you mean by degree recognition, as in identifying intervals?

I've recently started doing chords up to sevenths, cadences, and descending intervals.

Ear notation, there's a tricky one. All about practice though.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Yeah, like, the teacher was like "this is doh *plays note*, so what is this? And this? And this? etc" and he had to do the hand signals for all the scale degrees.

[gaslight]

Oh right. I've never done the "Doh Ray Me" sort of thing. And I haven't heard about any hand signals involved. Enlighten?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

1st degree = Doh = Hands in fists facing eachother, hands at waist level
2nd degree = Ray = Fingers together, hands form the shape of a roof (triangle)
3rd degree = Me = Hands form horizontal line
4th degree = Fah (I think) = Thumbs down, hands at chest height
5th degree = Soh (I think) = Fingers together, hands parallel to an imaginary line across your chest (hard to explain)
6th degree = Tah (I think) = Hands above head, fingers together; pointing downward
7th degree = Ti (I think) = Hands above head, index fingers pointing up
8th degree = Doh = Fists clenched facing each other, arms raised above head

[gaslight]

Oh alright, sounds pretty involved.

What is that for, singers?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

It is, actually.

Once a fortnight, it's compulsory for my music class to do singing lessons.

We sing songs, etc, but we always to vocal exercises and the like.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but when you sing the notes of a scale, you don't just go "do do do do do do do do" increasing the pitch each time, you assign a sound to each degree, and if memory serves, the sounds in order go "doh, ray, me, fah, soh, tah, ti, doh).

I'm not sure where the hand-signals come into play, but I'm thinking maybe it's to aid you in randomly generating pitches. If your teacher plays a C, and then signals with his hand to sing the third, you have to sing it, or something like that.

When we did the tests, two people went before me, then when I came up, I got them all right, but when we came to the sixth, I got my hand signals wrong, and that's why I had to sit down. I learned from my mistakes, and for everyone that proceeded me, I did the hand signals/said aloud the scale degree.

The teacher must have been watching me.

[gaslight]

Ah cool, that's a good idea, being able to sing and pitch notes in your head helps immensely for aural. Lots of the singers in my course pulled off High Distinctions in the aural exam for Semester One, despite having known no music theory before starting the course.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Yep, it's basically a necessity for singers to have the ability to generate pitches at will, think about it...

If you're on stage singing and the last note you sung was a B, and there's about 20 seconds of instrumental before you start singing again, and your next note is a G, you're going to have to visualise the G so that you can sing it again.

[musicmanjh]

Thats Relative pitch not perfect pitch... even if it was 20 seconds of silence and not instrumental work, most people could remember the sound of a note for that short period.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

I never implied it was a reflection of perfect pitch.

[musicmanjh]

Didnt mean to correct what you said. I just meant to point out that "randomly generating" a correct pitch in your head (without a reference note) and then singing it would show the perfect pitch ability. Your last example of singing a G after singing a B 20 seconds early is a good example of relative pitch.
Sorry for the confusion

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

It's all good.

[Trigger_003]

Here's another link I just found from a trombone forum I use...
http://www.teoria.com/exercises/
Rhythmic dictation ++ (intervals, scales, chords, etc. as well, but you don't generally see dictation around). Some other useful theory related trainers on there too :thumb:.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

/not on MSN :(

[FRUGiHOYi]

I'm doing these ear training lessons at http://www.cyberfretbass.com/ear-training/absolute-pitch/index.php and I was wondering about something. In lesson 1, first it says to alternatively play and hum a C. Then it says:

For your homework, do the visualization and the musical exercise a couple of times over the next few days. Learning requires action so make this a priority. It doesn't take long- just 5 minutes at a time. And these 5 minutes are worth a lifetime of musical excellence!

I'm wondering should I just work on C for the next few days, or work on other notes too? If I'm supposed to work on other notes too, do I work on them all at the same time, or do one note for a few days, then another note...? I'm confused... all I know is these things always emphasize that you should follow the lesson exactly and that's what I'm trying to do so I don't waste my time.

[Trigger_003]

I read that a while back and I'm pretty sure sure they were implying just do one or two notes at first, then do a couple more once they're mastered. Trying to learn all of them at once is probably going to take you longer and be more confusing.

Just my guess. They don't really specify.

[SRVFan2005]

My millionth ear training question. Sorry, but I am really frustrated with it.

Basically, I was trying to transcribe American Idiot (the whole album) to build my ear up, but I noticed when using my training tool to slow the song down and then tried playing the song, I found I was off, but then when I looked at the tabs out of pure frustrations, I was only a half-step off. Typically when I transcribe I am a half step off, but I can't figure out how to get to that half-step directly. I will attemp the album (and Questions!) again later tonight and tomorrow, since a hurricane is approaching, but I need some tips please. Thanks in advanced.

[aftermid]

Miku:
I guess I could try and hear one of the newer courses again. Although the price they're asking for it is pretty high and makes me a little hesitate in buying w/o some kind of guarantee. As far as describing colors to someone who is blind (going with your metaphor), it's funny you should mention that. I know someone who had a blind physics professor in college. One of his questions, to his class was "How do you describe color to someone who has been blind all his Life?" As unbelievable as that is, and w/o getting into very deep physics concepts of energy etc, it is possible. Put it to you this way, if they didn't answer this question, they wouldn't pass the course. So I think there is a scientific way to describe it to someone, but no one has come up w/ a method. Just like you were taught to play instrument. There was a day before that, that you had never played or held an instrument. Yet, you learned, someone showed you. Maybe, the analogy should be is how do you teach notes to a deaf person? What da ya think?

[gaslight]

My millionth ear training question. Sorry, but I am really frustrated with it.

Basically, I was trying to transcribe American Idiot (the whole album) to build my ear up, but I noticed when using my training tool to slow the song down and then tried playing the song, I found I was off, but then when I looked at the tabs out of pure frustrations, I was only a half-step off. Typically when I transcribe I am a half step off, but I can't figure out how to get to that half-step directly. I will attemp the album (and Questions!) again later tonight and tomorrow, since a hurricane is approaching, but I need some tips please. Thanks in advanced.

Slowing down recorded music can often cause it to go out from its original pitch. Slowing it makes it lower, speeding it up makes it faster. It's like when a you hold down fast forward half-way on an old tape playing stereo and it makes chipmunk voices, or how in slow motion videos people's voices deepen. Eg: the classic "Nooooooooo" in slow motion.

If your program resamples the audio to preserve the pitch, then it could be that you are just really close :).

[gaslight]

In other news, my Auralia CD arrived in the mail recently :). I'll be installing it soon, it is the program my university recommends for ear training.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Hey Matt, :wave:

[gaslight]

Hey man. New name there?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Yeah man, :D.

What's happening up there?

[gaslight]

Yeah not a whole lot. Really tired. Got a theory exam tommorow. You?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Good luck with that. What grade?

Nothing much is up with me, I'm just enjoying my last week of holidays before I'm off to school.

[gaslight]

I don't know what grade, it's just a half-semester exam for uni.

[fetusman]

can anyone here think of a common song with a major 7th interval, I need to find one for music theory. And while I'm at it also a diminished 5th too.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Matt, I'd offer you help but I'm guessing you're taking the exam as I type this, :p.

can anyone here think of a common song with a major 7th interval, I need to find one for music theory. And while I'm at it also a diminished 5th too.
Both intervals are rare in music because of their dissonant traits.

Beethoven's "Adagio Sostenuto" (or Moonlight Sonata) has a section at around 2:30 (in the first movement) that uses diminished fifths. And I'm pretty sure there may be a few major sevenths in there.

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

yer just use auralia

i had that program for a couple yrs now and its goood

the only problem is when u get better it doesnt have 2 and 3 part melodic dictations or any difficult rhythms

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Yeah, I too find interval trainers very helpful.

Definitely a lot more helpful than looking for songs that contain said interval.

[gaslight]

There is a Major 7th in the Superman theme song, I am pretty sure. My keyboard isn't plugged in though.

As for a dim5, the tritone is used in the theme for The Simpsons.

It's pretty useless though, me saying this without being able to play the exact bit to you :(.

And yeah Auralia seems pretty good for my current needs.

Had that theory test today, I'm pretty confident that I may have aced it.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Haha, tell me about some of the questions on it, if it's not too much trouble. Or you can add me to MSN (address in profile) and we'll talk about it on that.

[gaslight]

The questions were just things like "Notate an F Melodic Minor, ascending and descending (classical)" and stuff like writing out scales/modes, their resultant chords, naming the chords. Notating open and closed chord voicings, and things like that.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Did it have any ridiculous questions? Mine tend to have those.

"Briefly describe the time, form and character of the sarabande"

etc

[gaslight]

Nah I was really lucky, usually in exams there will be a page of questions that I would never think of, but I got all the stuff I (hope I) knew. I'm hoping to install Auralia soon but I've had some busy nights. My aural needs far more work than my theory, but I've noticed my ears getting better over this year.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Sweet. When do you get your results?

I take it there wasn't an aural component on the test?

[gaslight]

Nah we have Aural and Theory kept as seperate subjects.

I should have the results by next theory class. I should get my results for the Aural test I did two weeks ago on Thursday. Not going to be pretty but I was expecting Auralia to be in my possession at least two weeks prior. Pity I forgot to order it... but that detail isn't important.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

So wait, you're in Uni, yeah? And you take a class devoted to theory? Or what?

I know I'm asking a lot of things, but I'm interested and would appreciate it if you answered my questions.

[gaslight]

Yep, I go to the Australian Institute Of Music and what I do is a course in contemporary performance, and included in the classes for it are one devoted to Theory and one devoted to Aural. The other classes are; Concert Practice, Music Technology, Music Industry Studies, Performance Studies, Instrumental Major (private lesson), and Ensemble classes.

Everything is pretty much one two hour lesson per week, except Concert Practice which goes for one hour, and the private lesson for half an hour. When I move up to the Bachelor Course next year though, the classes will be different (more varied) and the private lesson goes for an hour then.

I'm happy to answer any questions you've got about course and whatever :thumb:.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Sounds like the best university ever.

And what's this for? A bachelor in music?

[gaslight]

It's my favourite place that I've been for learning :D.

I'm currently just doing a one year certificate course, but yeah next year I'll be starting my bachelor of music.

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

yer me and you are the same except im in first year bmus

if i didnt get into that i was going to do the same certificate course ur doing

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

It's my favourite place that I've been for learning :D.

I'm currently just doing a one year certificate course, but yeah next year I'll be starting my bachelor of music.
Ah, sounds fantastic.

When I go to university, I'm looking at a Law/Music double degree, that will get me a bachelor of law and a bachelor of music. It's at Monash and requires an enter score of 92. I should be able to get it.

Hopefully if I do this I will have similar classes to you.

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

you will not pass that degree i tell you now

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

What makes you say that?

[gaslight]

Wait, why won't I pass my music course?

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

becuz it is hard enough finding time to practice ur instrument when u are just doing a music degree wit all the other work you have

the worst double degree u could ever think of would be music + something

i would strongly advise if u wanna do them both do them one after the other

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

gaslight i was talkin to gavon

u will pass urs

[gaslight]

Ohh I get ya, I wasn't paying enough attention.

So, how about that ear training :amaze:.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

So, how about that ear training :amaze:.
:lol:

becuz it is hard enough finding time to practice ur instrument when u are just doing a music degree wit all the other work you have

the worst double degree u could ever think of would be music + something

i would strongly advise if u wanna do them both do them one after the other
Well, I'm not too sure it's going to involve much practice seeing as it's a music teaching course (I think).

Anyway, I dissent - I think it's possible. It's spanned over 5 years (instead of just 3), so the workload shan't be too bad.

[gaslight]

Oh well, one way to find out, and if it's too hard to do them together you could always defer one for a while and focus on the other, it's all good.

I think I'll install Auralia tommorow night because I think I get home from uni an hour early than I did today.

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

ok so ur doin bachelor of music education

ok

yer only in the first year u will need to practice then after that u wont play ur instrument ever

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Cool, good luck with that. And you're right about the course.

Anyway, what does Auralia cover? Does it cover interval training, melodic dictation, rhythmic dictation, chord naming?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

ok so ur doin bachelor of music education

ok

yer only in the first year u will need to practice then after that u wont play ur instrument ever
Yeah, I *think*. I'm not positive, of course.

And yeah, I'd much rather be a personal music teacher/school music teacher over a session musician or temporary recording artist or anything of the sort.

Don't ask me why, :-/

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

yer i changd my mind now bachelor of music education requires 0 practice of any instruments so u will have lots of free time to do adouble degree

[gaslight]

Auralia covers a whole mess of things, I'll try to get a complete list written out for you once I put it on and can easily check.

It covers interval comparison, recognition, chord recognition, inversions, cadences, scales, modes, rhymthic dictation, and other things. It's pretty well equipped.

Makes annoying noises whenever you start it, or get something wrong or right though :lol:.

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

yer im already a school teacher on mondays

but yer i see where ur comin from


but most ppl who wanna do that chose 3 yr bmus then 1 yr diploma in education over
4 yr bmusEd

for the simple fact that bmus education is boring like 10% music 90%edumacation

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

yer the noises when u get an answer right is like a million times louder than the actual exercises

very annoying

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

yer i changd my mind now bachelor of music education requires 0 practice of any instruments so u will have lots of free time to do adouble degree
Well let's hope it's education, then.

It covers interval comparison, recognition, chord recognition, inversions, cadences, scales, modes, rhymthic dictation, and other things. It's pretty well equipped.
Wow, sounds great!

[ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

yer except it dont have multi part melodic dictation so ur pretty much screwed when u hit that level cuz its hard to practice

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

True

[Trigger_003]

Ah, sounds fantastic.

When I go to university, I'm looking at a Law/Music double degree, that will get me a bachelor of law and a bachelor of music. It's at Monash and requires an enter score of 92. I should be able to get it.

Hopefully if I do this I will have similar classes to you.
Hey, I'm looking at doing either music or a double of music and teaching at Monash :cool:... Maybe I'll finally see you there :p.

Is Auralia expensive or...? It sounds pretty good.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

:cool:

[gaslight]

Auralia costs like $200/$300 retail which I think is a price that only Buddha could bear no objection to.

I got it for $90~ because I get a special student discount for ordering it through AIM.

Turns out I didn't fail that Aural test :). I pulled a 72% which is only a Credit but it is my highest mark in Aural so far which pleases me. So with some work I could hopefully get up around 85%. I'm really looking forward to seeing my Theory results, I'm quite hopeful for a HD in that exam.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Congratulations on passing that test, :thumb:

[SRVFan2005]

I'm working on going to MI (Musician's Institute). It's alot like the school you described. I am only going for a few certificate courses.

What persuaded you into getting a degree in music, because I have always heard a music degree is worth less than the paper it's printed on, but the knowledge behind it is invaluable.

Not sure at your school, but MI gives you the basics to step up to a professional level. Essentially, just going there and practicing will put you pretty high in the playing world, plus they guarentee you a band when you are ready. Ahh, only 2 more years.

[gaslight]

The reason I want a bachelor degree for it is that I'll be a much better player by the time I'm finished, have much better ears, much better theory, sight reading, all that. I'll also have done music history and world music things, and met plenty of great players. I also get taught how to give private tuition for my instrument.

It's going to be awesome.

I installed Auralia yesterday, going to give it its first run later. Possibly while I eat dinner.

[gaslight]

Yeah aight, I installed Auralia yesterday and it's working real well. There is some great info there and some useful stuff. Not the kind of thing you can wear out in a week.

[mipper]

On the subject of ear training, there's an open source program called Tete available which can handle intervals, chords and scales. It's written in Java so is cross platform.

http://tete.sourceforge.net