Best NBA Draft past ten years

[Illmatic]

Yeah, you had to see this one coming.

Which draft was best? To make it easier on you, here are the players taken that year who became solid contributors on NBA teams:

1995: Antonio McDyess, Jerry Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Damon Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas, Corliss Williamson, Brent Barry, Bob Sura, Theo Ratliff, Mike Finley, Travis Best, Fred Hoiberg

1996: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Derek Fisher, Othella Harrington, Moochie Norris, Jeff McInnis

1997: Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horn, Chauncey Billups, Antonio Daniels, Tim Thomas, Tracy McGrady, Danny Fortson, Austin Croshere, Derek Anderson, Brevin Knight, Bobby Jackson, Marc Jackson, Stephen Jackson

1998: Mike Bibby, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Jason Williams, Larry Hughes, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Bonzi Wells, Matt Harpring, Rasho Nesterovic, Ricky Davis, Brian Skinner, Al Harrington, Nazr Mohammed, Ruben Patterson, Rashard Lewis, Rafer Alson, Cuttino Mobley

1999: Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom, Wally Szczerbiak, Rip Hamilton, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Corey Maggette, Ron Artest, James Posey, Jeff Foster, Kenny Thomas, Andrei Kirilenko, Gordon Giricek, Lee Nailon, Manu Ginobili

2000: Kenyon Martin, Mike Miller, Jamal Crawford, Joel Pryzabilla, Etan Thomas, Hedo Turkoglu, Desmond Mason, Quentin Richardson, Jamaal Magloire, Speedy Claxton, Morris Peterson, Marko Jaric, Eddie House, Eduardo Najera, Michael Redd, Brian Cardinal,

2001: Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Eddy Curry, Jason Richardson, Eddie Griffin, Joe Johnson, Vlad Radmanovic, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker, Trenton Hassell, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur, Earl Watson, Bobby Simmons

2002: Yao Ming, Mike Dunleavy, Drew Gooden, Nene Hilario, Chris Wilcox, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler, Juan Dixon, Fred Jones, Tayshaun Prince, Nenad Krstic, Dan Dickau, Dan Gadzuric, Carlos Boozer, Flip Murray, Darius Songalia

2003: LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kirk Hinrich, T.J. Ford, Marcus Banks, Luke Ridnour, Josh Howard, Matt Bonner, Kyle Korver, Jason Kapono, Keith Bogans

2004: Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Josh Childress, Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Jameer Nelson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Anderson Varejao, Chris Duhon

[Simple Man]

1996: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Derek Fisher, Othella Harrington, Moochie Norris, Jeff McInnis

[3074326]

I voted for 1996. Some of the best players in the NBA were drafted that year.

[Illmatic]

Just in terms of sheer volume, 1998/1999 and 2001 seem to have it.

2003 has the two best and most important players (LeBron and Wade)

2002, 2003, and 2004 all have guys who can still break out, whereas everybody else has peaked.

2000 and 1995 just suck, for the most part.

[Illmatic]

I'm going with 2003.

Minimal depth, but LeBron and Wade are two of the three best players in the NBA, for Christ's sake.

[MattSharpIsCool]

A lot of good draft classes to choose from, but I went with 1996.

1999 is probably the 2nd best.

[IsItLuck?]

96 by far, look at that lineup!

[Illmatic]

1996: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Derek Fisher, Othella Harrington, Moochie Norris, Jeff McInnis

AI
Marcus Camby (good defensive player + rebounder)
Shareef Abdur-Rahim (okay player on losing teams)
Stephon Marbury (loser)
Ray Allen
Antoine Walker (I've had it with him, I've given him all the chances in the world, but he's a bum)
Kobe Bryant (let's face it, the poor man's Dwyane Wade)
Steve Nash
Jermaine O'Neal
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (worst. All-Star. evar.)
Derek Fisher (okay player)
Othella Harrington, Moochie Norris (okay bench players)
Jeff McInnis (cancer)

[Endless Obsession]

Darn i want to change my vote to 96 now. I went with 2003, but i think if this poll is taken again in the 4 years 2003 will be the right decision. 2000 really does suck. No Allstars except Redd, i dont even know if he made it this year.

[Reaganista]

1996.

[cheesepuff]

I went with '99

[MattSharpIsCool]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim (okay player on losing teams)

Stephon Marbury (loser)

Antoine Walker (I've had it with him, I've given him all the chances in the world, but he's a bum)

Zydrunas Ilgauskas (worst. All-Star. evar.)


Abdur-Rahim can't help it that he's been on bad teams. He's still a good player and I would like to have him on my team.

Marbury may be a bonehead, but he can score.

Walker is a pretty good player. Doesnt pick the best shots to take, but he makes enough of them. The new thing is big men who can hit threes, and he was one of the first ones who did it.

And before Shaq came, Z was the best center in the east. There arent many offensive centers in the league, and there are even less in the east than the west. 16 PPG and 9 RPG is pretty good production. Maybe not the best defensive player, but not awful.

[Illmatic]

Ben Wallace > Z
Eddy Curry > Z
Jamaal Magloire > Z

Marbury is a malcontent and a cancer and a bum. He's a horrible point guard, a horrible teammate, a horrible defender. He can do nothing for his team when he isn't scoring, and the only way he scores is by controlling the ball for 22 seconds on each possession and throwing up a shot at the last second.

And I've watched Walker for eight years, he's a bonehead. He takes stupid shots, makes stupid passes, makes stupid turnovers, and yells at refs.

[looozer]

I'm thinking between 1996, 1998, and 2003. I dunno.

[Hababi]

1995: Antonio McDyess, Jerry Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Damon Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas, Corliss Williamson, Brent Barry, Bob Sura, Theo Ratliff, Mike Finley, Travis Best, Fred Hoiberg


McDyess=promising career cut short by injuries
Stackhouse=JR Rider with a little more lasting power
Wallace=troubled malcontent who finally matured after 8 years of trouble
Garnett=maybe the best player in the NBA
Stoudamire=good start, subpar finish to a career. Personal troubles got him.
Thomas=Solid, blue collar worker. An Oakley type player
Williamson=A shorter Thomas
Barry=With a more aggressive personality, would've been the best SG of this draft. As it is, a very good NBA player
Sura=Late blooming guard
Ratliff=McDyess
Finley=Star player overshadowed by bigger star after a few years
Best=Decent guard
Hoiberg=Best

I'd give this draft an 8. You got a superstar, a few stars, and a host of solid NBA players.


1996: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Derek Fisher, Othella Harrington, Moochie Norris, Jeff McInnis


AI=superstar, future hall of famer
Camby=Good defensive player who's career has been diminished due to injury
Abdur-Rahim=Loser. Good player, but can't get on a winning team
Marbury=Very talented player who ruins every team he's on
Ray Allen=Star player with the talent, not the personality to be a true superstar
Walker=Rasheed Wallace
Kobe Bryant=Second most talented player in the game (to LeBron), but selfish and self serving
Nash=MVP :D
O'Neal=Delayed blooming star player
Z=Good NBA center who would've been great had it not been for injuries
Fisher, Harrington=Solid contributors
Norris, McInnis=blah

9.0


1997: Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horn, Chauncey Billups, Antonio Daniels, Tim Thomas, Tracy McGrady, Danny Fortson, Austin Croshere, Derek Anderson, Brevin Knight, Bobby Jackson, Marc Jackson, Stephen Jackson


Duncan=Quiet superstar
Van Horn=Danny Ferry returns
Billups=later blooming borderline star player
Daniels=solid NBA player
Thomas=Vastly overvalued disappointment; still solid contributor
McGrady=Superstar
Fortson=Thug enforcer/rebounder
Croshere=1 great series, 7 dissapointing years
Anderson=McDyess
Knight=Good, underrated NBA guard
B Jackson=Anderson
Marc Jackson=Wallace with less skill
Jackson=Later blooming borderline star player. Crowd beater.

7.0


1998: Mike Bibby, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Jason Williams, Larry Hughes, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Bonzi Wells, Matt Harpring, Rasho Nesterovic, Ricky Davis, Brian Skinner, Al Harrington, Nazr Mohammed, Ruben Patterson, Rashard Lewis, Rafer Alson, Cuttino Mobley


7.5

1999: Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom, Wally Szczerbiak, Rip Hamilton, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Corey Maggette, Ron Artest, James Posey, Jeff Foster, Kenny Thomas, Andrei Kirilenko, Gordon Giricek, Lee Nailon, Manu Ginobili


9.0 This was a very good draft-Kirilenko and Ginobli were incredible steals.


2000: Kenyon Martin, Mike Miller, Jamal Crawford, Joel Pryzabilla, Etan Thomas, Hedo Turkoglu, Desmond Mason, Quentin Richardson, Jamaal Magloire, Speedy Claxton, Morris Peterson, Marko Jaric, Eddie House, Eduardo Najera, Michael Redd, Brian Cardinal,


Blah. Worst. Draft. 3.0

2001: Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Eddy Curry, Jason Richardson, Eddie Griffin, Joe Johnson, Vlad Radmanovic, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker, Trenton Hassell, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur, Earl Watson, Bobby Simmons


Solid draft with no true superstars, a few stars (Arenas, Curry, Gasol) and some solid contributors


2002: Yao Ming, Mike Dunleavy, Drew Gooden, Nene Hilario, Chris Wilcox, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler, Juan Dixon, Fred Jones, Tayshaun Prince, Nenad Krstic, Dan Dickau, Dan Gadzuric, Carlos Boozer, Flip Murray, Darius Songalia


Besides the Rockets, every team before the Suns must be feeling really stupid right now. Not much depth to this one, but two of the most notable players in the league (Ming, Stoudemire), one of the best defenders (Prince), and a few solid players (Gooden, Dunleavy, Dickau, Butler). 7


2003: LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kirk Hinrich, T.J. Ford, Marcus Banks, Luke Ridnour, Josh Howard, Matt Bonner, Kyle Korver, Jason Kapono, Keith Bogans


9.5 Yes, my choice for the best draft. Why? In 5 years, you might have 5 superstars (LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh and Darko) out of it, with one borderline superstar in Hinrich. While 96 has more depth, no other draft produced as many guys who are already or will be in the very top bracket of NBA players. Plus, Banks, Ridnour, Howard and Korver are all solid NBA players with some development left in them.

2004: Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Josh Childress, Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Jameer Nelson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Anderson Varejao, Chris Duhon

This is a good draft, actually a very good one, 8.5. Howard will be the best player out of it; look for him to become a superstar as soon as Steve Francis starts passing the ball, or they trade him. Okafor will be putting up double doubles and defending any 4/5 in the league for the next 10 years. Gordon proved me wrong and established himself as one of the most explosive scorers in the NBA. Livingston didn't due much due to injury but I think he'll be good. Childress and Josh Smith are both very good players for the Hawks to build on and Smith will be the best defensive player in NBA in 5 years. Iguodala still needs to learn how to shoot but when he does he could be all NBA. Telfair...could be a star, but I don't think he will be. Deng is a solid player who will never be a superstar but will be a good NBA pro for 12 years. Nelson and Duhon will be starters for a long time. Varejao needs to get an offensive game but when he does, he'll be a very good NBA player.

So, I still say 2003.

[Illmatic]

Smith won't be the best defensive player in the NBA in five years, he won't even be the best defensive player taken in this draft (Iguodala). Deng may never be a superstar, but he'll be a star, and will be the most important player on the Bulls down the road. I commend the Blazers for not listening to anyone who gave them crap about reaching for Telfair--he'll be a very good player. Livingston is already the best pure PG to be drafted in the league since JKidd. In five years he will have established himself as the best point in the NBA (a good draft pick by Elgin Baylor? Let's stock canned goods for the apocalypse!)

1998 is better than you give it credit for, I think. Two borderline superstars (Dirk and Pierce), one woulda-shoulda-coulda superstar (VC), one of the most underrated players in the NBA (Bibby), two quality point guards (Bibby and JWill), a very good combo guard (Hughes), and two matchup nightmares (Jamison and Lewis, two of the best inside-outside forwards in the NBA).

[Hababi]

Smith won't be the best defensive player in the NBA in five years, he won't even be the best defensive player taken in this draft (Iguodala).


Iguadala's a heck of a defender, definately, but Smith picked up 10 blocks in a game this year, and led all rookies in BPG. He's taller, quicker and stronger than Iguodala. Sure, you'll say athleticism isn't everything-lots of good athletes don't make it in the pro's, but Smith's 10 block game (he had a few other monster blocking games too) show that he's a legit defensive force.


Deng may never be a superstar, but he'll be a star, and will be the most important player on the Bulls down the road.


I don't know about that. I think Curry will be the most important part. This year, the Bulls still played well enough after Deng's injury, but when Curry went down they were unable to win a playoff series. With Curry, the Bulls can beat anyone.


I commend the Blazers for not listening to anyone who gave them crap about reaching for Telfair--he'll be a very good player. Livingston is already the best pure PG to be drafted in the league since JKidd. In five years he will have established himself as the best point in the NBA (a good draft pick by Elgin Baylor? Let's stock canned goods for the apocalypse!)

Meh, I'm not so wild about Telfair. Sure, he's an incredible ball handler and passer, but I think in 5 years, he'll be the fourth or fifth best PG from this draft, with Livingston, Harris, Monia and possibly Jameer Nelson ahead of him.



1998 is better than you give it credit for, I think. Two borderline superstars (Dirk and Pierce), one woulda-shoulda-coulda superstar (VC), one of the most underrated players in the NBA (Bibby), two quality point guards (Bibby and JWill), a very good combo guard (Hughes), and two matchup nightmares (Jamison and Lewis, two of the best inside-outside forwards in the NBA).

Sure, it was a pretty good draft. I just don't think it can stand up to some of the other years. It's lightyears better than 2000 ;)

[Illmatic]

Meh, I'm not so wild about Telfair. Sure, he's an incredible ball handler and passer, but I think in 5 years, he'll be the fourth or fifth best PG from this draft, with Livingston, Harris, Monia and possibly Jameer Nelson ahead of him.

Monia? Is he some Euro?

Honestly, you're MX's very own Chad Ford (If Francisco Garcia said he was from Brazil, Ford would call him a top 10 pick).

Conversely, I'm not crazy about Harris. He just seems to be some undersized 2...he doesn't have exceptional point skills.

I love Telfair, though. His shot is rudimentary but he's an electrifying tablesetter at the moment.

Iguadala's a heck of a defender, definately, but Smith picked up 10 blocks in a game this year, and led all rookies in BPG. He's taller, quicker and stronger than Iguodala. Sure, you'll say athleticism isn't everything-lots of good athletes don't make it in the pro's, but Smith's 10 block game (he had a few other monster blocking games too) show that he's a legit defensive force.

Iguodala will be a much better perimeter and man defender, and blocks have nothing to do with that.

I don't know about that. I think Curry will be the most important part. This year, the Bulls still played well enough after Deng's injury, but when Curry went down they were unable to win a playoff series. With Curry, the Bulls can beat anyone.

Well, that's true. But I wanted to exaggerate just to show how important Deng is to the Bulls.

[Hababi]

Monia? Is he some Euro?


Yeah, Russian PG who will probably be in the NBA next season. He's got Livingston's size.

[Illmatic]

Holy Christ, you have to be Chad Ford.

Seriously.

[Hababi]

Holy Christ, you have to be Chad Ford.

Seriously.

Haha. Well, remember that Pau Gasol was ROY a few years back, Yao Ming should've been, and this year Beno Udrih and Anderson Varajao both played very solid basketball. Baketball is internationalizing like no other game (you could say hockey, but that's almost universally in Europe and Canada). Now, we have players from 6 continents playing in the NBA. Realistically, the best Russian and the best Italian prospect will be better than the third or fourth best American at his position.

International prospects are really changing the face of the game. I think it's very possible that in 10 years 50% of all NBA players will be foreign. It's going to elevate the level of play in the league and bring it back to a more up tempo game of skill as opposed to the low tempo slugfest it was becoming after the demise of the Showtime Lakers.

[Illmatic]

Successful foreign players:
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Manu Ginobili
AK-47
Tony Parker
Yao Ming
Big Z
Anderson Varejao
Peja Stojakovic
The Radman
Vlade (who came into the league before the influx of foreigners)

Deng, Mutombo, and Nash don't count because they played American college ball, so they had SOME preparation.

I don't think foreign players can make as big an impression as you think they can. American basketball players are bigger, meaner, faster, and more athletic than any competition they face, so it's a big shock for them. There's a reason European players get labelled as "soft" more than anyone else.

[Hababi]

I don't think foreign players can make as big an impression as you think they can. American basketball players are bigger, meaner, faster, and more athletic than any competition they face, so it's a big shock for them. There's a reason European players get labelled as "soft" more than anyone else.


The reason American players, in general, remain more fitted for the NBA game is because they have better training. But, the chasm between American training and European training is really beginning to dissipate. That's why Andris Biedrins was able to come in and step up to the plate against NBA players in his rookie year, as the youngest player in the league.

So while American players remain better physically fit for the NBA, the foreign players are catching up. And, the foreign players remain fundamentally more sound than most NBA players, particularly big men (Tim Duncan not including). Martynas Arin..., the 7'3 guy from Eastern Europe who will go high in this years draft, is a good example. He's learning from Sabonis (who of course you remember is my favorite player of all time), and when he gets to the league, he'll be very fundamentally sound. He won't be ready to bang with Shaq or Wallace, but he'll be able to dribble around them (ok, maybe not Wallace) and shoot over them.

[Illmatic]

You forget that American big men are on their way up, too.

For some reason I see this being like the NHL. For a long time, starting with the Summit Series in 1972, people kept saying that European players would take over the league. And yet, the top players on the top teams remain Canadian. Out of all the Stanley Cup winners in recent history, the best player has been Canadian except for the Lightning (Khabibulin, but that's arguable) and the Avs (Forsberg, and that's pushing it). The top defensive players in the NHL are almost always Canadian as well.

Europeans have carved out a niche in the NHL as being skilled players who aren't gritty enough to succeed, and they've done that in the NBA as well. Other than Ginobili, Nocioni, and Varejao (who are all South American) I can't think of a single hard-nosed foreigner in the NBA.

[Hababi]

For some reason I see this being like the NHL. For a long time, starting with the Summit Series in 1972, people kept saying that European players would take over the league. And yet, the top players on the top teams remain Canadian. Out of all the Stanley Cup winners in recent history, the best player has been Canadian except for the Lightning (Khabibulin, but that's arguable) and the Avs (Forsberg, and that's pushing it). The top defensive players in the NHL are almost always Canadian as well.



I don't know enough about the NHL to respond :(



Europeans have carved out a niche in the NHL as being skilled players who aren't gritty enough to succeed, and they've done that in the NBA as well. Other than Ginobili, Nocioni, and Varejao (who are all South American) I can't think of a single hard-nosed foreigner in the NBA.


Nene??!!

Menge Bateer...he has to be hard nosed, as he doesn't have Euro skill. I'd call Biedrins hard nosed, too. Other than that, I can't think of too many hard nosed players from overseas...

[MattSharpIsCool]

You forget that American big men are on their way up, too.

For some reason I see this being like the NHL. For a long time, starting with the Summit Series in 1972, people kept saying that European players would take over the league. And yet, the top players on the top teams remain Canadian. Out of all the Stanley Cup winners in recent history, the best player has been Canadian except for the Lightning (Khabibulin, but that's arguable) and the Avs (Forsberg, and that's pushing it). The top defensive players in the NHL are almost always Canadian as well.

Europeans have carved out a niche in the NHL as being skilled players who aren't gritty enough to succeed, and they've done that in the NBA as well. Other than Ginobili, Nocioni, and Varejao (who are all South American) I can't think of a single hard-nosed foreigner in the NBA.

Its arguable that Sergei Federov or Nicklas Lidstrom were the best players on the Detroit Red Wings when they won the cup. The Sabres would have never even made the finals without Dominek Hasek, Miro Satan, and Alexi Zhitnik. Sergei Zubov was possibly the most important player on the Dallas Stars in their cup run.

And to say the European players arent successful is just flat out wrong. What about Ziggy Palffy, Marian Hossa, Lidstrom, Federov, Patrik Elias, Khabibulin, Forsberg, Markus Naslund, Marian Gaborik, Ilya Kovalchuk, Olaf Kolzig, Alexi Yashin, Zhitnik, Hasek, Jari Kurri, Mats Sundin, Jaromir Jagr, Teemu Selanne, Sergei Samsonov, Zdeno Chara, Roman Hamrlik, Mikka Kiprusoff, Roberto Luongo, Milan Hejduk, Pavel Bure, Alexander Mogilny....

But this thread isnt about a hockey, so meh.

[Illmatic]

Its arguable that Sergei Federov or Nicklas Lidstrom were the best players on the Detroit Red Wings when they won the cup.

Whoa whoa whoa.

Just stop for one second and ask yourself:

"Would the Wings have won those Stanley Cups without Steve Yzerman?"

Lidstrom and Federov are great players, but Yzerman is the heart and soul of the Wings.

I never said Euros weren't good, but when's the last time Kovalchuk, Yashin, Jagr, Samsonov, or Bure wowed you with their grit and toughness? Jagr's best years were spent with Mario Lemieux, a tough Canadian. Samsonov benefits from being a wingman of Joe Thornton, a tough Canadian. Hejduk benefits from being the wingman of Joe Sakic, a tough Canadian (wait, Hejduk is on Sakic's line, right? If he isn't than forget it). Naslund is paired up with Bertuzzi, a terrifyingly tough Canadian (he practically paralyzed someone!).

Isn't Hossa the leader of a Sens team that is notorious for being knocked around too easily in the playoffs?

Goaltenders are the exception to the rule, it seems. And defenders are naturally tough, so obviously Chara and Lidstrom are hard-nosed dudes. Sundin is a tough guy too, if I remember correctly too.

[MattSharpIsCool]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Just stop for one second and ask yourself:

"Would the Wings have won those Stanley Cups without Steve Yzerman?"

Lidstrom and Federov are great players, but Yzerman is the heart and soul of the Wings.

I never said Euros weren't good, but when's the last time Kovalchuk, Yashin, Jagr, Samsonov, or Bure wowed you with their grit and toughness? Jagr's best years were spent with Mario Lemieux, a tough Canadian. Samsonov benefits from being a wingman of Joe Thornton, a tough Canadian. Hejduk benefits from being the wingman of Joe Sakic, a tough Canadian (wait, Hejduk is on Sakic's line, right? If he isn't than forget it). Naslund is paired up with Bertuzzi, a terrifyingly tough Canadian (he practically paralyzed someone!).

Isn't Hossa the leader of a Sens team that is notorious for being knocked around too easily in the playoffs?

Goaltenders are the exception to the rule, it seems. And defenders are naturally tough, so obviously Chara and Lidstrom are hard-nosed dudes. Sundin is a tough guy too, if I remember correctly too.


I agree, Yzerman is the soul of the wings. But he's not necessarily the most talented player on the team. But I do agree, they probably would not have won the cup without Stevie Y.

And I know Euros arent the toughest of players. There was a guy on my old hockey team we nicknamed Sven because he never hit anyone. But they are good, talented players that score and open up the ice.

Hossa is the most talented player on the Sens, but I wouldnt really call him the leader of the team. I dont think he's even an assistant captain.

There are some pretty tough Euros though. Krystsof Oliwa (I butchered that name) played for the Devils a few years ago, and led the entire league in penalty minutes and fighting majors with 35. So they're out there, they're just a minority of Euro players.

[Illmatic]

I never said Yzerman was the most talented, but he was the best and the most important player to the Wings. And that's my whole point. Euros do not win Stanley Cups.

[MattSharpIsCool]

Maybe not, but they win gold medals and world tournaments. The Czech Republic just beat Canada in the world championships.

Anyways, no more thread hijack-age. We agree that Euro players have trouble competing in the more physical NHL.

[Illmatic]

but they win gold medals and world tournaments.

Which is how it works in the NBA.

Anyway, we got so far off-track because of Non "Chad Ford Jr." Sequitur. This is the classic scenario: White guy implies European players are poised to take over the league, black guy shoots down implication.

[ZEROthirtythree]

2003

Becuase of LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kirk Hinrich, and T.J. Ford. Also Jarviss Hayes of the Wizards, who you did not mention.

[monokolopo]

96'