Improv

[pianoplyr77]

hey i was just wondering if i could have some help with my jazz

it seems like i cant really do anything with improv outside of the basic blues scale. i know that there are all the other scales to work with, but can someone give me some tips???

[Roses_and_Ribbons]

I'm not trained as a jazz pianist - haven't played jazz outside of mus ed band, but there are CD's out there of just chordal backing which you can practice improvising to.

Even just reading up on jazz music structures will help - a lot of books out there have scales written in, the styles they're used in and more.

Or just listen to a bunch of stuff and try to improv along. It can't hurt and it'll help.

[shreddy]

Huge Jazz fan but I cant play it, took a basic course on it but it didnt cover much in the 10 classes we had.

Take a long look at the chords in the song and look at the various modes other than penatonic that you can use to play against them. Take each chord and break it down into what scales you can play against them, arpeggio, etc..

The CDs with chordal backing tracks sound very cool, I'd love to find something like that for myself.

Ed

[pianoplyr77]

thanks guys, ill try that!

[CuShMaN]

Jazz is about the FEEL.

As Charlie Parker said, 'learn all the theory you can.. then throw it away and just play.'

First and foremost. Get the rhythm in your head. You have to listen listen listen. So grab the music of any jazz pianist (http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319041)and get that swing!

-Blues and pop are 1,4,5. BUT Jazz is 2,5,1. the more complex the jazz song.. the more sequences of 2,5,1 there are. (if you don't understand, ask and i'll elaborate)

-The scales and modes are directly relevant NOT to the KEY of the song.. but to the Chord and Direction that you are immediately playing.

-Get a "Real book". Period. (ask and i'll explain)

-Come to the realization that ALL JAZZ music is actually played in a specific format. Ever wonder why the drummer knows when his solo is?.. ect? It's not magic. Jazz standards are called that for a reason. They have a 'standard' format that everyone recognizes. Each part of a Jazz song is a segment that is played in a specific order and follows rules.

-Learn your 7th chords. (http://www.jazclass.aust.com/scales/sca7ch.htm)

**So then, using all of these tools, pick an easy starter standard.. like "Autumn Leaves" Out of the real book, get the correct swing feel in your bones, and just play the correct 7th chords.. whole song all the way through. Over and over. Don't be choppy.. take it easy... and go slooow.
After getting the chords down.. then play the entire piece again.. but this time melody in the right hand and chords in the left hand. Jazz is like blues.. It's about separating your brain in half. Practice.
After a while, start adding in extra notes to the melody. A few here.. a few there. Keep them syncopated and swing them. Use notes that you are playing in the left hand chord to help give you ideas for the melody changes.

Go back and listen to a jazz pro playing the same song.. and you'll start to 'get' what hes doing.
-Learn some licks. Licks are a predetermined sequence of notes that can be modulated and re-used throughout a song. Oh.. you thought that he actually MADE that cool lick up on the spot? Maybe. But probably not.

hope this helps...





Ghost Notes (http://ghostnotes.blogspot.com/)

[pianoplyr77]

wow thank you so much

i understood everything you said except for for the theing about jazz is 2,5,6 or whatever. Could you explain that?

[ImmortalDeath]

Any1 wanna tell me what block chords are in jazz?

[Ned]

hey i was just wondering if i could have some help with my jazz

it seems like i cant really do anything with improv outside of the basic blues scale. i know that there are all the other scales to work with, but can someone give me some tips???

Okay, the main thing you need to know is that no real jazz musician EVER says "improv". Only phonies say "improv". Hope that helps.

[CuShMaN]

wow thank you so much

i understood everything you said except for for the theing about jazz is 2,5,6 or whatever. Could you explain that?


In a major scale.. there's 7 notes. For example the key of C. If C=1, D=2, B=7, etc.

If you built a 'standard' 4 note chord off of each of the 7 notes. There would be 7 chords... one for each note. The chords are labeled with roman numerals like this : I,ii,iii,IV,V,vi,vii. Some are upper some are lower.. i'll explain in a second.

In the key of C, this first (I) "4 note chord" or "7th" chord would be Cmajor7.. the notes are C,E,G,B.
If the first note of the Chord is 1, the numbers of those notes are 1,3,5,7. (C=1, E=3, etc.)

The second (ii) "7th" chord would be Dminor7.. the notes are D,F,A,C (no sharps or flats). If the first note of the Chord is 1, the numbers of those notes are 1,3,5,7.

All "7th" chords are constructed using the 1,3,5,7.

(However, it is important to note that not all 4 note chords are 7th chords.. there's different types.. like diminished, or augmented chords. There are also 5,6 and up- note chords.)

So, simply put.. in C Major.. the 7th chords are listed like this (i'll give different variatons of the nomenclature:
I = Cmajor7 = C,E,G,B (1,3,5,7) = CM7 = Cmaj7 = or C(with a little triangle)
ii = Dminor7 = D,F,A,C = Dm7 = Dmin7 = D-7
iii = Eminor7 = E,G,B,D = Em7 = Emin7 = E-7
IV = Fmajor7 = F,A,C,E = FM7 = Fmaj7 = or F(with a little triangle)
V = Gdominant7 = G,B,D,F = G7 = Gdom7 [the 5 chord is always dominant.. notice the F is a whole step from the G, unlike the I or IV]
vi = Aminor7 = A,C,E,G = Am7 = Amin7 = A-7
vii = Bminor7 = B,D,F,A = Bm7 = Bmin7 =B-7 (note about the ii chord.. it's not a pure minor 7 chord.. because it has a diminished 5th note.. in this case the F should actually be F# to make sense.. so a lot of the time you'll see the ii noted as vii(with a little circle next to it..(which means diminished) .. however.. I don't use it.. because, it's not fully diminished.. only half diminished.. its a personal preference)

Q: Why are some of the Roman Numerals undercase?
A: If you haven't already figured it out.. it's only the Minor chords. Yep.. that's right.. there's only 3 Major chord positions per key... the rest are minor.

So.

To answer your question. Pop, rock and blues chord progressions typically stick to the 3 major chords.. I,IV and V. The standard blues riff goes roughly(in 4 measure sequences) I,IV,I,V,IV,I or some people just say. 1,4,1,5,4,1.

Jazz standards however, are ii,V,I which is way different. And they use the 2,5,1 chord sequence in sets. For example: D-7(ii),G7(V), CM7(I). Try playing those chords over and over..(But make sure you swing them!)

To make it a little more complex.. they will also do things like this: ii,V of IV. For example:
In the key of C.. this would be the 2,5 of IV or in other words.. the RELATIVE second and fifth chord of FM7 (IV). Which would be Gminor7 (G,Bflat,D,F)(ii of IV) then Cdominant7 (C,E,G,Bflat)(V of IV) and then Fmajor7.

Q: Why do you play the Bflat on this example of ii,V of IV?
A: Because, remember.. -"The scales and modes are directly relevant NOT to the KEY of the song.. but to the Chord and Direction that you are immediately playing." In this case.. the RELATIVE pivot chord was FM7 which has an "implied" key signature of the key of F.. which has one flat.. Bflat. Generally, once you come back to the IV, you re-assume the original assumed Key of the "I" Chord.

This is why it appears that jazz musicians are using notes that "don't make sense" or are "outside" of the key that they seem to be playing in. They are simply following a moving target.

The name of the game is follow the key. This is why modal scales come in handy.. they allow you to enharmonically play over a chord progression with guaranteed accuracy that you won't mis-step on the wrong notes.

Then.. you chuck all this theory.. and just play.







Ghost Notes (http://ghostnotes.blogspot.com/)

[sexy_mexican_man]

woah. thats a nice run down there CushMan

[PianoDan]

Thanks CushMan, very nice work.

[Chimaera One]

A nice introduction into Jazz is Blues-Jazz. The only real well-known artist that springs to mind is Robben Ford, but it's still quite a large genre. Blues Jazz can often be a lot simpler in terms of theory, compared to Jazz.

For instance, you know your pentatonic scales, right? Well, lets say you're playing a chord progression like...I dunno, Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 (2-5-1 more-or-less). When you were playing over the Dm7, you'd play the D Minor Pentatonic. When you're playing over the G7, you play the G Minor Pentatonic, understand? That's a pretty rough guide, but it should get you started to research the topic further.

Also, a lot of famous Jazz players incorporate the chromatic scale (every single note from C to the next C, e.g. C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C). Their's a whole lot of stuff you can learn about Chromatic Runs, and "resolving", which should really help your jazz playing.

Also, learn other Jazz players songs, play the songs through a few times, then improvise over the chords, trying to stick to the general melody (if you're finding it difficult not to stray from the melody, pick out key notes in the melody, and make sure you hit them!!! It might be useful just to play the song through once just playing the chords and key notes, but, whatever floats your boat).

I haven't provided much solid information their, but hopefully your general understanding of the subject will have expanded :).

[pianoplyr77]

alright i will definately try all of that