starting a decent home studio(?)

[uriasmetal.com]

Hola, I'm just wondering what all you recording guys think of this plan for a studio... Cakewalk SONAR 4 Producer Edition for software, a Roland VS-1680, and a few nice mics. The problem here is I've only got a few hundred for mics at the time being, and theres just sooo many to choose from. Not only that, but my drummer has a 10 piece ( :rolleyes: ) so obviously thats a lot to mic... What would you suggest... Also, to have an idea of what the music is go to uriasmetal.com and then media and mp3s, and theres one of our songs taken from a camcorder (whether or not that matters for different mics I don't know) Thanks very much in advance, and can't wait to see some responses :thumb:

[Seafroggys]

Hmmm, you can get general purpose mics, or you can start up on a much bigger mic collection and start getting specialty mics.

[RockISdead420]

if you have the software do you still need to buy mixers?

[moaner]

he will still need a mixer, or an audio interface, i'm pretty sure.

If you buy a large set of drum mics, it'll probably have everything you need- snare/tom mics are ok for guitar, and condenser overheads good for vocals. Remember, you can get away with one mic between 2 drums easily (except bass drum), and condensers will pick up most of it anyway.

[MetalMan]

Oh, you should use snair or tom mics for guitar? We have been using a condenser mic for guitar

[moaner]

Oh, you should use snair or tom mics for guitar? We have been using a condenser mic for guitar

meh. its up to you. neither is wrong.

[cramboli]

then how would my drummer mic up a 30 set drums. its got 2 snares 2 basses 2 upright basses 10 cymbals 4 tom toms 2 high hats 3 bongos 1 hollow 1 metal box(self built) and 1 wooden drum boxes and 2 sound pads.He's only got $400 to spend so yeah.

[moaner]

then how would my drummer mic up a 30 set drums. its got 2 snares 2 basses 2 upright basses 10 cymbals 4 tom toms 2 high hats 3 bongos 1 hollow 1 metal box(self built) and 1 wooden drum boxes and 2 sound pads.He's only got $400 to spend so yeah.

4 condensers, 2 bass drum mics, probably 5-6 snare mics. the bass drum mics are essential, as are the condensers. you then want at least a mic between every tom/snare, and probably one each for your box/pads and one condenser or 2 snare mics for the bongos.

$400 might not be enough, see what ebay gives (you'renot gonna get top quality mics at that rpice, but you might get something ok)

[uriasmetal.com]

alright... how about my drummer ... 7/8 toms (2 are floor), double bass, shltload of cymbols, and his snare. again, i'd say we've got $400 tops to spend, AND i'd like to be able to mic up the gee tars and bass, at least for a few months until theres cash for those specifically. Also, what brand/model would you suggest for the drums and eventually guitars? Thanks again

[Queensrycher]

Well, you've probably heard it before, and you're going to hear it again (if you haven't heard it before, then listen up!)

Shure SM57...that's all you need! I swear by it, too! I own one (1) and have successfuly mic'd a drum kit (bass, snare, two toms, hi-hat, ride, crash) it's a small, kit, granted, but just ONE SM57 overhead, pointed just right, picked everything up, with INCREDIBLE balance!!! My only regret was that I didn't have a bass drum mic, which is essential!

I've also used the SM57 on guitar cabs and bass cabs, with excellent results. I want to use it on some horns, but haven't (Been using condensers for the horns!) Best of all, these mic's cose about $90! Not even 100...even better yet, is that SHS makes an exact copy (it's basically Shure overseas!) for even cheaper, about $75...you could get five of these for that price! (two for drums, one each for guitar, bass, vocals!)

Otherwise, other mic's Ive used with great success are:

--MXL 2003/603S--This is a nice package (1 large, 1 small diaphram condenser!) The 2003 is great for horns (trombone, sax, trumpet, brass chior, etc.) Also work's great on guitar cabs, and I used it for drum overheads, too...$150 for the both of them (I haven't had a real chance to use the 603S, but I've read good reviews!)
--MXL 990-small condenser...superb acoustic guitar tone! Also good on drum overheads! $60 (Watch Musician Friends for the right time, it get's down to $60 AND you get a free pop filter!)
--AKG C3000 and C1000-This package itself is 400 dollars, and the mic's can do all the same things thes other mics can...still, good to consider down the road!
--Audix D6-A GREAT bass-drum mic, though it's about $200. However, check out Musician's friend for similar models from other companies at lower prices (I know Shure, AKG and Nady all make similar models, at different prices!) This mic als works great on Bass cabs!
--Behringer B-5 - Another excellent small diaphram condenser...used on drum overheads and hi-hat well. Also used it for an upright bass. $80.

So, now that I've thrown out all the mic's I use, here's how I'd use them on that beast of a kit economically:Mic both bass drums (D6, SM57...some dynamic mic!) Two over heads (any condenser) SM57 on the snare. I find it'd easier, more stress free, and generaly sounds better if you go this route, rather than micing ALL your toms (or even every other one!) And, it's cheaper...just make sure you get good balance from your overheads. And if you need a crunchier snare sound, try putting the mic under the snare...but don't overdo it!

And you should be set! Oh, and be sure to record the drums in stereo, and pan the two overheads! If you do it right, it'll give you a cool effect, especially on tom runs!

[moaner]

kkk... pwn him...

[KKKKKocaine]

Well, you've probably heard it before, and you're going to hear it again (if you haven't heard it before, then listen up!)

Shure SM57...that's all you need! I swear by it, too! I own one (1) and have successfuly mic'd a drum kit (bass, snare, two toms, hi-hat, ride, crash) it's a small, kit, granted, but just ONE SM57 overhead, pointed just right, picked everything up, with INCREDIBLE balance!!! My only regret was that I didn't have a bass drum mic, which is essential!

I've also used the SM57 on guitar cabs and bass cabs, with excellent results. I want to use it on some horns, but haven't (Been using condensers for the horns!) Best of all, these mic's cose about $90! Not even 100...even better yet, is that SHS makes an exact copy (it's basically Shure overseas!) for even cheaper, about $75...you could get five of these for that price! (two for drums, one each for guitar, bass, vocals!)

Otherwise, other mic's Ive used with great success are:

--MXL 2003/603S--This is a nice package (1 large, 1 small diaphram condenser!) The 2003 is great for horns (trombone, sax, trumpet, brass chior, etc.) Also work's great on guitar cabs, and I used it for drum overheads, too...$150 for the both of them (I haven't had a real chance to use the 603S, but I've read good reviews!)
--MXL 990-small condenser...superb acoustic guitar tone! Also good on drum overheads! $60 (Watch Musician Friends for the right time, it get's down to $60 AND you get a free pop filter!)
--AKG C3000 and C1000-This package itself is 400 dollars, and the mic's can do all the same things thes other mics can...still, good to consider down the road!
--Audix D6-A GREAT bass-drum mic, though it's about $200. However, check out Musician's friend for similar models from other companies at lower prices (I know Shure, AKG and Nady all make similar models, at different prices!) This mic als works great on Bass cabs!
--Behringer B-5 - Another excellent small diaphram condenser...used on drum overheads and hi-hat well. Also used it for an upright bass. $80.

So, now that I've thrown out all the mic's I use, here's how I'd use them on that beast of a kit economically:Mic both bass drums (D6, SM57...some dynamic mic!) Two over heads (any condenser) SM57 on the snare. I find it'd easier, more stress free, and generaly sounds better if you go this route, rather than micing ALL your toms (or even every other one!) And, it's cheaper...just make sure you get good balance from your overheads. And if you need a crunchier snare sound, try putting the mic under the snare...but don't overdo it!

And you should be set! Oh, and be sure to record the drums in stereo, and pan the two overheads! If you do it right, it'll give you a cool effect, especially on tom runs!


You're not from Europe and it shows :)
In the UK we pay vast amounts for SM57's and 58's, amounts that practically render purchasing them over condensers or chinese mics invalid.
We pay at least $140 for an SM57 and this number can go up to about $180.
To put this into context, in the realms of a drum overhead, you could buy a Superlux CMH8A for 60 pounds, compared to the SM57's 70-85 pound price.
The CMH8A has a frequency response of 20Hz-20kHz, the SM57 40Hz-15kHz.
The CMH8A is naturally more sensetive to sound and has a flatter frequency peak.

Basicly if you were to do the Jazz thing and mic a kit in the UK, you wouldn't touch an SM57 unless you didn't really mind about selling your wedding ring.

It's not that nice for acoustic guitars either, it gets a decent sound, but you get a fairly harsh sound on the treble compared to a large diaphragm condenser like the CMH8A.

The 58, is a nice mic, but having used it live, I didn't really notice any difference that would have made my performance better or worse than cheaper microphones I have used. Definately not something I'd pay 80 pounds for if I could get it for 30.

I wouldn't reccomend 5 SM57's, Whilst it is near indentical to the 58 with the exception of the mic grill and a few minor issues, it's really not standard to use an SM57 on vox unless you really have nothing else, I'd much rather have a general large diaphragm condenser with some drum mics, with the condenser I could drum overhead, cab, horns, and vox. And with companies like Superlux, you really don't have much excuse for not getting specific drum mics.

In the UK, for the price of 1 sm57, You can bag , 2 back electrets, 2 snare/tom mics, and a kick mic.
So that's a mic in the bass, two overheads, a mic on the snare and a mic on the large tom or to keep even tom tones, you could use it to mic the hi-hats, or the bottom of the snare for more of the 'buzz' tone.

Or for a more basic set up, you could get 1 kick mic, and 3 snare/tom mics, for almost half the price of an SM57.

In America it may be worth it to get the SM57, but in the UK it's practically financial suicide, I have no idea why, but we just pay over the odds on everything here. Our MXL 990 is a minimum of 75 pounds, and that is a sale price, the maximum is 140, you guys pay the pound equivilent of 30 pounds for it.

To the thread starter, for your drummers larger kit, if you don't have much, you can work your way up.
Start with a kick and snare mic at least. These are integral and the main parts of your drum kit.
The two overheads, these will pick up practicly everything and fill it out.

You could stop right there for a 5 piece, it would give a decent enough sound.

For a ten piece, you may want a couple of instrument dynamics, or another condenser.
Placing one condenser on the right of the kit, the other on the left, and the third or the two dynamic mics in the middle.
If you mic up every single drum, it will cost you and you probably won't get much benefit from it.

[uriasmetal.com]

"For a ten piece, you may want a couple of instrument dynamics, or another condenser."

What are instrument dynamics?? Just a dynamic mic?

[moaner]

"For a ten piece, you may want a couple of instrument dynamics, or another condenser."

What are instrument dynamics?? Just a dynamic mic?

its a type of dynamic mic. there are 2 types- vocal and instrument.

[KKKKKocaine]

"For a ten piece, you may want a couple of instrument dynamics, or another condenser."

What are instrument dynamics?? Just a dynamic mic?

They are microphones with a frequency response and frequency peaks catered towards instruments as opposed to vocal mics which usually have frequency peaks around the levels of speech to increase intelligability.
i.e. The SM57 = Instrument Mic

[uriasmetal.com]

alright, that makes sense... thanks

[uriasmetal.com]

Also, what do you guys think of the VS1680?? What I'm looking for is a reasonably cheap recorder(as in not 5k or something like that) but that is also nice enough to be able to build around and not have to upgrade for (hopefully) a long time. thanks again!

[uriasmetal.com]

holy wow its been awhile... anyway, i'm picking up that 1680 either today or tomorrow for $700 and my friend bought a beta 57a and the mxl 990/991 package... what drum mics should we go for... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=42/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/277126/
or
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=42/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270777/
?? he would get two sets of each, to cover the dam kit... anyways, how would the beta do for guitar cabs? also, and, would there be enough mics for the drums there, or should we get another set of the mxls too? hes got about 450 to spend on stuff. the 1680 has a digital mixer intergrated, so maybe down the road we'll get a mixer too, but we're not going to just yet. what has everyone go for ideas? moaner, kkkk??? anyone else, too....thanks again

[Nick Morzov]

here's my advice, my drummer and i are always playing arround with recordings, and what we've found to be the best for not a whole lot of money... sm57's they're not CHEAP but they are WAAY versitle... as for a bass drum mic you'll have to get one of those to really get the sound you want... a mixer is good, but if you just use acid pro and record everything at separate times, it would be better to have a more raw sound so you can work with it digitally. eq and other fx are hard to apply to a sound that is already processed. a good formula too is to record drums first then guitars then vocals then any fun things you might want to add for effect. but i do think you can get a decent sound out of not a lot of mics... oh and if you DO ever get a mixer, make sure record at a semi RAW format... you don't want to overprocess your sound. Good luck and have fun!

[Nick Morzov]

oh and remember, you're not recording an album that's going to be sold in stores... you're making a demo right? get your **** out there and let a label buy all the expensive equipment. having a good home recording sound is GREAT but you should make your #1 priority better live sound that's where it really counts anyways...

[airborne50caliber]

****, i never thought of it that way..

[Nick Morzov]

****, i never thought of it that way..

some people have AWESOME avitars... and yours is one of them. :thumb:

[uriasmetal.com]

well, anyways, we ended up getting the seven piece CADs for now; our drummer is getting some axis double bass pedals soon, so we *should* be all set with that (yes, no?) i also bought a little behringer mixer (ub802) to put some of the drum mics through if necessary... what else do i need/should i get???????? any suggestions are cool. thanks again (and again...)

[airborne50caliber]

some people have AWESOME avitars... and yours is one of them. :thumb:

no, but seriously, i been spending loads on a really chill home studio but we aint even got a PA.. you could change my views on life!!! :amaze:

[Nick Morzov]

no, but seriously, i been spending loads on a really chill home studio but we aint even got a PA.. you could change my views on life!!! :amaze:
i'm glad i could help! Good luck with everything oh btw don't buy a combo PA pack... get a poweramp a mixer and speakers all separate it will cost a lot more... but you'll get an AWESOME sound out of it. Also get a nice mic because feedback sucks balls and a half! :thumb:

[Nick Morzov]

well, anyways, we ended up getting the seven piece CADs for now; our drummer is getting some axis double bass pedals soon, so we *should* be all set with that (yes, no?) i also bought a little behringer mixer (ub802) to put some of the drum mics through if necessary... what else do i need/should i get???????? any suggestions are cool. thanks again (and again...)
that sounds good, are the inputs on the mixer xlr or 1/4"?

[uriasmetal.com]

two xlr, two(?) 1/4in

[uriasmetal.com]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_id/88620

heres a link.

so, any ideas on what else to get?? is a noise gate going to make much of a difference, would a EQ be helpful, etc??

[Nick Morzov]

that was a good deal man... i just bought one! Anyways that should be good enough for now, it's better for personal recordings like guitar or bass or some simple acoustic and vocal recording... what i'm going to use it for is record my music and send it to my drummer while he's away for school... he has pro tools over there so it should sound nice... anyways noise gating is good to get rid of that awful hissing noise in the background when you record. eq is good too just make sure you use it wisely and not just turn everything all the way up... remember that people have eq systems on their home stereos and car stereos...

[uriasmetal.com]

lol, sorry it was a ub802a the a being key... its an 8 channel rather than a 4, so its got 4 xlrs... even better! this through the 16 track vs1680 and i should be all set i hope.. however i am still wondering what else i should get, and what would be helpful to have. thanks

[Nick Morzov]

lol, sorry it was a ub802a the a being key... its an 8 channel rather than a 4, so its got 4 xlrs... even better! this through the 16 track vs1680 and i should be all set i hope.. however i am still wondering what else i should get, and what would be helpful to have. thanks

haha i'm glad it was a typo! i just bought something i really needed! anyways that should totally be sufficient just get some mics with xlr (balanced or grounded) inputs you'll notice the difference when recording, get some GOOD sm 57's they're versitile, durable and are of decent quality. see if you can get some kind of package deal since you're making a studio you're going to need more than one. plus a good drum mic would be good but i'm not too familiar with those... i'll have to get back to you on that one. other than that i think you'll be good you have everything you need. Well... get acid pro from click-now.net that's what i use check out the audio arena and go to rate my samples that's what it sounds like with 5 mics and 1 drum mic... but we've got the step up from your mixer... it's got 8 xlr inputs

[Nick Morzov]

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318762

that's the link for my samples

[uriasmetal.com]

wanna trade mixers?? :P

[uriasmetal.com]

also, the recordings are soundin pretty cool, also! nice