*** The Cymbal Finder ***

[FL3P]

Fair post ^^^
I like the sound of Oriental Trashes. And now I don't know what to get.
16" or 18"? The 16" is cheaper, and there's a second hand one cheap
The 18" is cheap (£147 inc. postage) and brandnew.
After that I'm after a crash. Sould I get another 19" Z Cust. Med? I love it, but then what about another sound? Because, I havmt the time to go to my music store that would let me compare it :(


-Ant-

Well the 16 will have a higher pitch but either way you get a very trashy cymbal that will cut.

[static]

17" Dark, warm, thin, cutting, loud cymbal.



And opinions on AAX Dark Crashes?

[Seafroggys]

17" Dark, warm, thin, cutting, loud cymbal.



And opinions on AAX Dark Crashes?

K Thin Dark Crash! I love the 17" myself.

[static]

Yes! That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.


Have you played it in real life? If so, how does it compare to the sound clips?

[Seafroggys]

Yes! That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.


Have you played it in real life? If so, how does it compare to the sound clips?

um, I played one in jazz and pep bands as my main crash for all 4 years of high school.

So no, I haven't played it in real life. ;)

[static]

I hate you so much. :-*



But really, how does it compare to the clips?

[fishbulb]

Man, i went to GC last week and saw a used 17" A Custom crash. It was beautiful, looked brand new and sounded exactly how i wanted it to. It was for $130 and new it is $200. Don't know why i didn't buy it right there, but i didn't. I went back yesterday and of course, it's gone. I was looking on Music Go Round and i saw one for $99 but it didn't have any pictures. I e-mailed him and he said that it already sold. I was looking again and saw a 18" for $99, but again no pictures. E-mailed them just to see how it looks, but i might want to hold out for a 17" because after listening to sound samples, that's the one that sounds the best to me.

On a side note, how much does the sound change from cymbal to cymbal. Example: Two 17" A Custom crashes next to eachother, i know they do differ, but is it a huge amount or barely noticeable?

[Seafroggys]

I hate you so much. :-*



But really, how does it compare to the clips?

never listened to the clips.

Its just....godly good.

[drummguy731]

To fishbulb, it won't be a huuuuge differenece, but there'll be a little difference in them.

[static]

never listened to the clips.

Its just....godly good.


then listen and give a brother some help.

[FL3P]

It also depends on the model. Two A Customs will sound a bit more similar because they are made to be consistent whereas two Ks could be quite different.

[fishbulb]

Just by sound samples the 17" A Custom and 17" A Custom Projection are almost the same. Basically the same overtones but a little bit different sounding initial crash at the beginning.

[FL3P]

The projection has more bite to it, I think that would be the only difference. Tine wise I think they stay the same for the most part.

[static]

I find the A Custom sound samples to be the most accurate.


That's what my buddy's Projection sounds like.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Just by sound samples the 17" A Custom and 17" A Custom Projection are almost the same. Basically the same overtones but a little bit different sounding initial crash at the beginning.

The projection crash has a bit more power and body behind it. It's probably not a very good description but it's the only way I can think of. I thought the pitch was every so slightly lower, or at least the overtones were, but I could be wrong; the Sabian sound clip comparison thing is soo much easier to use than the Zildjian one, and takes about half the time to load. My impression was the projection crash was less 'shimmering', if that means anything :S

However, this is from memory so I could be wrong.

edit: I can't commment on the normal a custom, but the projection sound clip is pretty accurate,.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

You sir want A customs or 2oo2's for the crash

and Avedis 20" Medium for that good crash and good ride

Thanks.

What are Avedis crashes like? Also, how would those 2 crashes you suggested fit with the K dry ride, as I'm only a student so my capital resources are limited (i.e. it takes me a long time to get the money for 1 cymbal, let alone 2 :)) so getting the crash I wouldn't get the ride for ages (I mean a long time). How do you reckon an A custom 16 fast crash would go? or the AAX dark crash?


Cheers guys


EDIT: by the way, is an a custom medium crash the same as a 'regular' or 'normal' crash?

[FL3P]

The Medium crash is in between the regular A Custom and the projections.

[fishbulb]

I'm going to hold out to get a 17" regular A Custom. One just came out on ebay but it has a small dent in it so i don't want it.

[Little Android Man]

ooo 17" A customs are da bomb!!!

[fishbulb]

Yeah dude, 17" are the perfect size. Enough energy to make it dark and full and powerful, but small enough to be a bright crash with great overtones.

I found one on ebay starting at $89 but it has a week left of bidding so i hope i can get it.

And nobody screw me out of this deal either.

[London Prophet]

20" K Heavy Ride
vs
22" K Custom Dark Ride

Used as my jazzier ride (over my 20" A ping ride) needs good bell sound and general dry tone.

[Seafroggys]

20" K Heavy Ride
vs
22" K Custom Dark Ride

Used as my jazzier ride (over my 20" A ping ride) needs good bell sound and general dry tone.

the Heavy will sound fairly close to the Ping.

I'd go with a 20" K Regular Ride, those are pretty nice.

[static]

Yes!


proud owner, yo.

[ludvista29]

I'm looking for a Dark crash, kind of funky, but like a gushhhh low sound.
Edit: it could be a ride if so.

[drummguy731]

Try either the K Dark crashes or the Oriental Crash of Doom.

[ludvista29]

I dont wnt any thing too trashy though.

[drummguy731]

Oh, then no Oriental COD. Still check out the K Darks.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

There is an AAX dark crash, which is a fair bit cheaper than the K/custom darks, but it will probs have a rather different sound, but probably worth a look.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

the Heavy will sound fairly close to the Ping.

I'd go with a 20" K Regular Ride, those are pretty nice.

True, I don't know what the K custom dark ride is like, but the K (and K custom for that matter) normal rides are very good sounding.

The K custom dry ride (which I have) is pretty jazzy, has a beautiful dry tone and a potentially powerful & cutting bell sound, so you could look into that. The volume on the main body can't really get all that loud, and it has very limited crashability, but if it's in addition to an A ping ride then maybe that's what you want.

[Mr. Grill]

I'm in the market for a new china. Most chinas I've played are too short in decay and worked better for short accents. I'm looking for one that has long sustain and a dark, trashy, low tone. The sound I'm looking for you can hear in Unearth's "Endless" around 54 seconds in. Any suggestions?

[ant_182]

Maybe a Crash of Doom? I know its not a china but it might have the sound? Also larger chinas?


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

A big heavy china?

20" z custom?

[Aaron]

Wuhans. get a 22".

[Pearldrumguy]

k hi hats? They good for jazz, funk, latin, and fusion? I'm thinking about getting some. I listened to the k/z specials but they sounded muddy to me.

[Zildjian]

^ Check out some New Beats... There versatility is mind blowing

[ant_182]

Try hats out!!!


-Ant-

[Seafroggys]

^ Check out some New Beats... There versatility is mind blowing

will you be my gay lover?

[Aaron]

14" K Light Hats

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

I've been looking on only1 music's ebay thing, and I reckon either a 17" AAX dark crash or 17" AAX stage crash go best with my current setup (17" a custom projection crash, 20" k custom dry ride, 13" a custom mastersound hats). Pitchwise they're both a bit higher than my current crash, but the stage crash is the higher of the two and the dark is only a little higher than the a custom but has a nice dark tone.

Anyone got experience of either / suggestions for which one to go for?

[Tim]

teh aax dark crash isnt really that dark at all....for a trying to be dark cymbal that is. I would go with the stage crash its more versatile. Ive played the 17 my friend has it and i like it. I would trade him my 16 satge crash for the 17 any day.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

teh aax dark crash isnt really that dark at all....for a trying to be dark cymbal that is. I would go with the stage crash its more versatile. Ive played the 17 my friend has it and i like it. I would trade him my 16 satge crash for the 17 any day.

Yeah i realise, it's actually marginally less bright than other aax's which is good as dark cymbals often don't penetrate well.

thanks

[Zildjian]

If you want a dark crash, go K custom

will you be my gay lover?


sure, can we bring our new beats?

[Seafroggys]

yes, we can play on each other's, even mix and match!

[byrkee]

the 18'' a custom efx sounds amazing.

[static]

I prefer the 16".


And I didn't know the made 18 foot cymbals.

[We_Love_Lime]

My teacher asked me to do an essay, so I banged a mexican.
Somehow I thought of mexicans when I thuoght of 18 foot cymbals, and how you can use them as hats, or as a roof for a house, than I thought roofers.

[static]

Okay.

[We_Love_Lime]

Uhm.
Yeah.

[Pespi]

FFS Seafrog shut up about New Beats. New Beats suck.

AAX Stage Hats totally pwn New Beats.

teh aax dark crash isnt really that dark at all....for a trying to be dark cymbal that is. I would go with the stage crash its more versatile.

QFT.. AAX Dark crashes suck. Go with AAX Stage. If you want dark crashes go with Ks, HH, or HHX.

[Corkofski]

and the prize for the worst impression of a moody menstural lesbian who committed e-suicide goes to...

[static]

pespi!

[Quinto]

a really fast splash, darker sound, trashy.

and

a fast splash, a little bright, to compliment the one described above.

[Tim]

HHX splash and AA Splash. thos would go well.

[Mr. Grill]

I want some dark hats with some really sick sizzle.

[Seafroggys]

I want some dark hats with some really sick sizzle.

New Beats

[440561]

Can someone tell me what the stagg dual hammered series are like? I wanna get a 16" crash for my birthday but the only stagg DH cymbal Ive played is a china. It sounded good, but Ive never heard their crashes. I cant get a really expensive one as Im already getting drum bags and other stuff lol!

Cheers for any help you can give- sam

[440561]

266 pages, then when i ask the question, it goes cold for a day.

So this here is a bumb!

[Drum Phil]

DH are really trashy sounding.

I have a pair of DH splashes and i love them. I also have a SH crash which isnt the greatest crash.

I probably wouldnt bother tbh. They're very inconsistent.

[Cjc1706]

Hey,

Im looking for a new 18" crash, pref Zildjian, for rock / heavy rock sort of stuff. Like Guns n Roses, Motley Crue stuff ?

Id say about £150ish is my limit

Cheers

CJ

[Drum Phil]

These prices are all from Newcastle Drum Centre:

Zildjian A Custom crash - £163
Zildjian A Medium Thin Crash - £152
Sabian AAXplosion Crash - £122
Sabian AA Thin Crash - £122
Pasite Rude Thin Crash - £148
Paiste 2002 Thin crash - £148
Paiste Sig Power Crash - £148

Those are the ones i'd reccomend.

[Cjc1706]

Hey,

Thanks for that ill be sure to try a few of them out.

Cheers

CJ

[Drum Phil]

Stay clear of Zildjian Z Customs. Just as a little hint.

They're too heavy to be played fast and are incredibly brittle and crack.

[Cjc1706]

Ok thanks for the tip....

any other litte points i should know about the A custom crash ?

Cheers

CJ

[ant_182]

They're good if you like em :p. I am a little scared of it cracking though! Anyone able to tell me the difference between these two? I'm sure they're the same but the logo is different. Is one an older model? I know one is med. thin, the other could be just thin?
Thanks
http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/8d/4a/3fb4_1.JPG
http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/8c/5e/6996_1.JPG


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

Top ones an older model.

Ok thanks for the tip....

any other litte points i should know about the A custom crash ?

Cheers

CJ

The "standard" crash is thin weight.

Other than that, not really.

I wouldnt go with anything over Medium-Thin. They're a nice balance of tone and volume.

[ant_182]

Phil, would they sound much different? Thanks


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

Seeing as they're "hand" hammered. Yes.

[ant_182]

Ok, thanks


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

That and ones thin and ones medium thin.

[ant_182]

Cheers lol. I thought so, but I have sh!t eyesight. Anyway, you think they should sound good? I listened to Zildjian's clips (I know I hate them) and I liked them. I'm just looking for a deal on a crash 17" + atm lol


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

All opinion but yes.

Im more a K Custom man myself though.

[ant_182]

Yeh, I havn't seen anything yet, I might wait until friday (payday :p) So I can splash out a little more!


-Ant-

[Cjc1706]

Hey,

just looking at my local drum store, and they have this A Custom cymbal ....

What you think ?

http://www.northerndrumcentre.com/product_details.aspx?pid=178&cat=108&page=1

CJ

[ant_182]

Over priced. Right mate, go see what crash you like, then try here

http://uk-cymbals.co.uk/
and
http://rockfactory.co.uk/


-Ant-

[Cjc1706]

Bril, ok thanks bud

CJ

[ant_182]

Actually, this is also cheap. (The A Custom Cymbals are out of stock usually) But they're real cheap!
http://www.thomann.de/


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

If you go to http://www.newcastledrum.com you can phone them and order the cymbal for the price i posted plus delivery.

They'll also beat any other price.

[ant_182]

Do they beat the "german" price? I think I emailed them though and got no reply


-Ant-

[Cjc1706]

Ok ,

Thanks for that..... Ill try and bargain my music store down to the lowest price i can find on the net (plus postage)... if not ill use one of the suggested sites....

Hopefully going to try a few cymbals out tomorrow

CJ

[ant_182]

Cool, hope you find what you want!


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

Do they beat the "german" price? I think I emailed them though and got no reply


-Ant-

No. But i wouldnt order cymbals from there anyway.

The monkeys at customs ignore "fragile" labels and are likely to break them.

[ant_182]

Good job they packaged my roadpro good then!


-Ant-

[440561]

Ok so at the moment I have Paiste 101 hats, crash and ride with a stambul vintage paiste 16" crash. Now the stambul doesnt sound particularly amazing so I wanna get a new crash for my birthday.

Im getting drum bags already, so it cant be a really high priced cymbal. We might be looking at £50 Im not sure. So its not gonna be zildjian lol!

edit: I play rock if that helps at all. Cheers

[Drum Phil]

You aint gonna get anything decent for that. Best to just save the cash.

[ant_182]

I would say sav up. Would you get some money for your birthday (from relatives etc?)? If so use that, and ask your parent(s) to help with the rest? Then get a decent cymbal. A Customs, K's K Customs are the Zildjians I would look at. Also try other lines Sabian, paiste etc. However. Hi-hats and Ride maybe more important


-Ant-

[440561]

Well I have money at the moment. And if I dont get anything else for my birthday then I will have a decent amount of cash lol.

So what would you recommend to me then? The average high school drummer in a rock band that is about to be doing lots of shows-who is already over protective of his low end paistes lol!

[Drum Phil]

I would go pro if you're serious about drumming.

If you can afford it, why go lower?

[440561]

I am serious. I just dont have the money.

What do you do? Job-wise? and how much does it pay?

Cos I do a paper round which gets me £10 a week.

[ant_182]

You have already bought **** cymbals, why buy more **** ones?


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

Im currently a dole rat.

I get £45 a week and havent bought any major drum gear for a while.

I used to be in a band that made a bit of money and i was a club DJ so that payed for some of my gear.

[ant_182]

I work at a window place and earn £150 on average. I have to pay rent, driving lessons, drum lessons and other stuff. You must be at school, start saving wil you can. Look for deals on ebay.


-Ant-

[440561]

I cant save if I need to fork out £100 for cymbals lol!

I know, my cymbals at the mo are ****, but they are ok for the moment.

I could sell my 2 crashes and get one. But I like having 2 lol

[ant_182]

Well if you aren't going to take on board the advice, dont bother posting lol. Why cant you get another job on the weekend? I had a kitchen job which pulled in £30 for a day or two


-Ant-

[440561]

I am taking in the advice, Im not gonna get a shitty cymbal for my birthday lol!

Im just gonna ask for money.

And Im going to look for another job... but where I live is a bit crap for jobs lol

[Drum Phil]

An 18" sabian aaxplosion will set you back £122. They are amazing for rock and metal

[440561]

Cheers. A great drummer and friend of mine suggested B8s lol. They are ok from when Ive heard him play them but... yeah lol.

They are hated around here!

[Drum Phil]

They're beginner cymbals.

[440561]

Yeah I know. I was looking through the kits and I like the look of Pro Sonix. Are they any good?

[ant_182]

Mate, I live in lowestoft......


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

Yeah I know. I was looking through the kits and I like the look of Pro Sonix. Are they any good?

Again, beginner-intermediate cymbals.

Buying cheap means buying twice.

[Banshee]

If you want sabian go AAX/HHX

I got my 16" AAXplosion for £113!

[440561]

Are they quite versatile cymbals?

Because im in a rock band at the moment. But if that doesnt go right then I wanna join/start a heavier band. Would HHX/AAX be good in most situations?

Cheers

[Drum Phil]

HHX, probably not.

AAX yes.

[fishbulb]

17" A Custom crash? I just bought mine for $135 plus $15 shipping.

[440561]

Thats like £70, bargain!

[Cjc1706]

Hey,

Just bought my new A Custom 18" crash for £149 from my local store. Managed to haggle them down from £174 lol.

CJ

[ant_182]

Cool, not a bad deal! I just got an 18" K Dark crash for £117 Used though


-Ant-

[Quinto]

what are some small hats good for that computer beat like tick sounds?

[440561]

2 10" splashes can sometimes sounds pretty cool!

edit: and fishbulb-where did you get it from?

edit2: are any of these zildjians any good: zxt, zht and zbt?

Cos Ive heard people flaming others cos of having the, i just wondered what was wrong with them???

[ant_182]

They're beginger line cymbals. The ZHTs are very good cymbals IMO. I compared the ZHT Mastersounds to the A Custom Mastersounds. Is there £120 difference in it?... No. Best to avoid the ZXT's and ZBTs.


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

Some ZHT's arent bad.

ZXT's and ZBT's are overpriced garbage

[Quinto]

what are some small hats good for that computer beat like tick sounds?

.....

[Drum Phil]

Im gettin some saluda 12" hats for $150.

Try saluda?

[ant_182]

Someone said 10" Splashes. Also small hats closed real tight.


-Ant-

[440561]

Drumwright.co.uk: "Splashes and crashes - ZHT 16 inch Crash *** 10th Anniversary Sale *** £ 65.40 "

So should I get it? Is it one of the good ZHTs?

Cheers everyone

[ant_182]

you NEED to listen to cymbals like that I'm afraid.


-Ant-

[440561]

Ok, but my music store is **** lol.

Sorry but if you only stock zildjian ZXTs and Sabian B8s then Im not gonna go to your store, stupid effing nevada.

[ant_182]

LoL Mine only stock ZxT Tintaniums, stagg and pearls! Listen to the sound clips (I HATE advising this and doing this) but its al you can do


-Ant-

[saars]

Ok, so I was talking to one of my friends during lunch today, and he asked me if I wanted to buy his 9.5" zil-bel, and I asked if I can bring it home to try it out. Turns out he brought it to school and happily handed it over to me. Here are a few pics:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/saars5supra/My%20stuff/IMG_7630.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/saars5supra/My%20stuff/IMG_7632.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/saars5supra/My%20stuff/IMG_7633.jpg

Yeah, it's so damn dirty and it has a bit of scratches, but I'm digging the sound it's giving me. Anyways, he's willing to sell it for 90 USD, but I think I can bargain it down to 50 bucks or so.


So, my question is: Should I go for it, or give it back?

[Tim]

you can get a brand new one for $90. talk him down to 50.

[saars]

mass music and musicians friend both have em for 104 USD. But yeah, I'll try and get it down to 50.

[LoneStarDrummer]

tell him $50 and settle for no more than $70. shoot for about $65 or less and you've got yourself a pretty good deal.

[DrummingBen]

Anyone got a opinion on meinl soundcaster custom medium crashes?

[440561]

What are your opinions on Wuhans?

They look good and are reasonably cheap.

[stevensonmat2]

I have a 16" china and a 12" china from them, they sound great. I hate their splashes though, the sound so gongy.

[440561]

Cheers, anyone know if their crashes are any good?

[ant_182]

Aparently each cymbal sounds different!


-Ant-

[Zildjian_man]

k.
So I decided to get a new ride. So we are clear, there is 100% no way for me to try one out first so im reling on here.

I play all rock and want a good ping sound. Not to buch wash or sustain either. i am looking at an avidis meadem(?) ride for a good buy, and wondering if it fits my description?

thanks!

[Quinto]

so this ride your describing doesnt make any sound?^

ping ride, or earth ride

[saars]

;14282222']tell him $50 and settle for no more than $70. shoot for about $65 or less and you've got yourself a pretty good deal.



he said that he would give it to me for 60 at the lowest. Thanks bro!

[LoneStarDrummer]

that's not bad at all. good buy

[Seafroggys]

k.
So I decided to get a new ride. So we are clear, there is 100% no way for me to try one out first so im reling on here.

I play all rock and want a good ping sound. Not to buch wash or sustain either. i am looking at an avidis meadem(?) ride for a good buy, and wondering if it fits my description?

thanks!

Medium is a good ride, but it'll have wash to it. Go for the Ping ride. Its a wonderful ride. Still has great tone and 'sustain' but has that nice pingy sound to it that you'll like. Go with anything heavier and you'll get a nasty clang sound that just doesn't sound great.

[Mr. Grill]

I'm looking for a ride that has next to no overtones-- as clean of a ping as possible. A very strong, high pitched bell. Any suggestions?

Edit- Maybe I should rephrase that--- I want overtones... I just want something that doesn't have a lot of conflicting overtones. The opposite of a complex cymbal, if you will. The bell is extremely important to me, I would like a very strong, cutting bell.

[Tim]

strong cutting bell with a nice ping i would suggest an 21' AA rock ride.

[Drum Phil]

20" Zildjian Avedis Rock Ride.

[440561]

So I was looking at prices at a local shop and the wuhan s series 16" crash is £42, and I saw that a B8 16" crash is £75...

So is the B8 overpriced, or is this wehan s series 16" crash not actually that good?

Cheers

[ant_182]

Depends if you like it


-Ant-

[Tim]

i would take the s series over ther b8.

[MeaninglessPhoto]

Wuhan cymbals are cymbals that need to be heard first. They are different because they are trashy. Im not a fan of the crashes/splashes but I am in love with their chinas.

[static]

Fast thin loud china. >16.

[BigMe]

I need a ride that has a little bit of wash. As well as crashability.... If that's a word. Also I'd like it to sound nice with my K Dark Crash.... If that means anything. Cheers.

[Tim]

Fast thin loud china. >16.

Sabian AA fast chinese.
Sabian AA mini chinese.
Sabian AAX mini chinese.


I need a ride that has a little bit of wash. As well as crashability.... If that's a word. Also I'd like it to sound nice with my K Dark Crash.... If that means anything. Cheers.

Sabian AA medium ride
Sabian AAX stage ride
Zildjian A series medium ride
Zildjian A series sweet ride
Paiste 2002 ride

[ant_182]

Sorry D0uble trouble


-Ant-

[ant_182]

A Sweet Ride mate, I have the K Dark Crash too, works wonders!


-Ant-

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

A question:

How well do K medthin dark crashes work for rock? Like in terms of being heard? The reason I ask is I have a 20" k custom dry ride, which when I'm playing on my own, or funk or something, it is amazing, but for live rock it doesn't cut through and is also quite quiet.

I'm very much considering one, possible 18 or 16 inch depending of whether I decide larger or smaller sound than my 17" A custom projection crash (and availability 2nd hand/ebay), as I've played them on other people's kits and in shops and they sound amazing but wasn't sure how it'd work for what I want to play. I'm trying to get a kit that isn't too specific, like can play rock/pop/funk etc well, but fits well with itself, so I'm looking at a non-A custom crash to get some less bright and 'clean' tones in (though a customs are very sexy).

For the record, I have so far 13 a custom mastersound hats, 17 a custom projection crash, 20" k custom dry ride (thinking of getting 2nd ride eventually that is louder, washier, crashable, and bit brighter, maybe an AAX 20" stage ride as I've found one for £85 2nd hand, excellent condition)

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Sabian AA fast chinese.
Sabian AA mini chinese.
Sabian AAX mini chinese.


I think he meant 16" or larger, could be wrong though.
Sorry I can't help you myself I know nothing about chinas, having never had one.

[A_Guy]

So, I have a show next week, first one where I get to use my own kit, and I'm looking to buy a new crash before than. I'm looking for a dark sounding crash, mostly used for riding. I've been looking at a 17" K Custom Dark Crash, is this good or do you have any other suggestions?

[Seafroggys]

I would suggest an 18" Amedia Vintage Crash, but unless you live in Portland OR or Europe, you can't get one :thumb:

I've played on some 19" A Customs that were pretty dark surprisingly, make for some good rides as well methinks.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

So, I have a show next week, first one where I get to use my own kit, and I'm looking to buy a new crash before than. I'm looking for a dark sounding crash, mostly used for riding. I've been looking at a 17" K Custom Dark Crash, is this good or do you have any other suggestions?

That's a very nice cymbal, in my opinion. What sort of music are you playing in your band? And is that the only thing you want this cymbal to be good for (i.e. what else will you want to use it for)?

I would try it out in a shop, but the Zildjian website ( www.zildjian.com ) has a "cymbal configurator" where you can compare cymbals' sounds around a picture of drum kit, which is not bad at all, and if the rest of your cymbals are zildjian then you can add those in too to check how they fit with them.

However, going to a shop is better, as is trying different cymbal combos out with your current cymbals (see if you can take them in and use them with a kit/cymbals that you're considering). Some shops have helpful staff that will be just that, and give you advice rather than just trying to flog you a hugely expensive or unnecessary cymbal (though some will do).

Have you considered the K dark crash thin/medium thin? The don't decay so quickly, possibly a bit less 'complex' sounding but I'm not sure, and the med-thin version has a bit more high end so I think it would probably cut through if you're playing live a bit more, while retaining that dark K sound.

Another possibility is the sabian AAX dark crash. While not dark in the same way that the Zildjians are, it has the 'cleaner' sabian sound to it as you would expect from an AAX only slightly darker. The only problem comparing zildjian and sabian soundclips from their websites is that they have (very) different volume levels and sound like they're recorded in a different way (so perhaps not very comparable). Their HH/X series are more 'complex' sounding but not so dark as the Zildjians so perhaps not quite what you're after.

As seafroggys said, larger a customs can be kind of dark, but not quite in the same way the Ks.

edit: www.sabian.com/english/webmayhem/soundcheck.cfm

I hope this is somewhat helpful.:)


p.s. can someone answer my question please? (post 5395)

[A Vision of Sunny Days]

Ollie:

They're ok for rock, but not in a very loud situation. Because they're dark they can cut, but just not as well as cymbals without a dark sort of distiction to them.

For some cut as well as some darkness, mostly high ends though. I would definetly recommend you take a look at the HHX Evolution Crash. I had the opportunity to try one in store and it was orgasmicacus. It's definetly on my list for hi-endcrashes. A little pricey though, but well worth the money. Look into it.

Hope that helps dude. If not, I'll be back :chug:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, now I got a question related to cymbals haha. I've been looking around for cymbals for my upgraded kit in the form of 16", 17" and 18" crashes. 17" I decided I would pick the AA Fast crash, 16" I'm on a maybe for the Evo crash. 18" I don't know. I'm not picky on mixing brands, but if you guys can suggest anything that will work for me, that'd be awesome. I mostly play alternative, as well as metal, some jazz, and indie.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

That does help,thanks. I may well be back, but I'm just checking out the sabian website to get a feel for what it sounds like until I can get to a store. Only prob would be price, but then again all pro cymbals are fairly expensive and I can keep my 2nd hand eyes open....

cheers

EDIT: Any thoughts on the K custom hybrids? They are a bit brighter than regular K custom and so probs cut more. Plus they sound good.


(Btw the Sabian website's terrible volume levels mean the evolution crash isn't very hearable, so I'll wait for going to a store. It's a lot easier now I can drive, only the petrol costs ££££ here and I have to pay even using my rents' car for long journeys.) The stage crash (or was it the xlposion) for HHX sounded lovely though.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Ok, now I got a question related to cymbals haha. I've been looking around for cymbals for my upgraded kit in the form of 16", 17" and 18" crashes. 17" I decided I would pick the AA Fast crash, 16" I'm on a maybe for the Evo crash. 18" I don't know. I'm not picky on mixing brands, but if you guys can suggest anything that will work for me, that'd be awesome. I mostly play alternative, as well as metal, some jazz, and indie.

Sorry man, I missed your question, damn edit function!

So. the 17" AA fast crash is very very nice (from the website, that is). The other day I had a good look through the sabian website, specifically AA and AAX, so I'll say which I reckon sound good, and would go well together.

As said, the evo and the AA fast are both real nice. I was only looking at 16" but the same would probs be true of 18":

AAX: dark/stage/xplosion/metal crash (though that's my least favourite of them)
AA: medium/medium thin

Personally, I'd go for (possibly): 16" AAX dark crash, 17" AA fast crash (which you said), and 18" AA medium thing crash or AAX stage crash. I would think they'd be quite versatile, and if budget is an issue, AA and AAX are very reasonably priced IMO. (compared to things like meinl mb20 heavies and paiste signatures anyway).

The dark crash is, well, a bit darker, but still that cleanish aax sound, the fast crash is, well fast, and the 18" ones I suggested would cut very well, and have a decent amount of power to them for heavier crashes, so hopefully that'd be a fairly well balanced setup.

:smoke:

But don't take my word for it! :)

[A_Guy]

That's a very nice cymbal, in my opinion. What sort of music are you playing in your band? And is that the only thing you want this cymbal to be good for (i.e. what else will you want to use it for)?

I would try it out in a shop, but the Zildjian website ( www.zildjian.com ) has a "cymbal configurator" where you can compare cymbals' sounds around a picture of drum kit, which is not bad at all, and if the rest of your cymbals are zildjian then you can add those in too to check how they fit with them.

However, going to a shop is better, as is trying different cymbal combos out with your current cymbals (see if you can take them in and use them with a kit/cymbals that you're considering). Some shops have helpful staff that will be just that, and give you advice rather than just trying to flog you a hugely expensive or unnecessary cymbal (though some will do).

Have you considered the K dark crash thin/medium thin? The don't decay so quickly, possibly a bit less 'complex' sounding but I'm not sure, and the med-thin version has a bit more high end so I think it would probably cut through if you're playing live a bit more, while retaining that dark K sound.

Another possibility is the sabian AAX dark crash. While not dark in the same way that the Zildjians are, it has the 'cleaner' sabian sound to it as you would expect from an AAX only slightly darker. The only problem comparing zildjian and sabian soundclips from their websites is that they have (very) different volume levels and sound like they're recorded in a different way (so perhaps not very comparable). Their HH/X series are more 'complex' sounding but not so dark as the Zildjians so perhaps not quite what you're after.

As seafroggys said, larger a customs can be kind of dark, but not quite in the same way the Ks.

edit: www.sabian.com/english/webmayhem/soundcheck.cfm

I hope this is somewhat helpful.:)


p.s. can someone answer my question please? (post 5395)

Thanks alot for the help :thumb:
I would use it mostly for metal type stuff that I look to direct into a more stoner feel. The cymbal I used to have was an old Zildjian crash, I can probably get a sound clip up today or tomorrow. I'm going into a good drum store sometime this week (GC has crappy Zildjian selection) so I'm gonna try out a few.

[A Vision of Sunny Days]

Hey thanks man. I'll be checking that out soon for sure. Good suggestions btw.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Thanks alot for the help :thumb:
I would use it mostly for metal type stuff that I look to direct into a more stoner feel. The cymbal I used to have was an old Zildjian crash, I can probably get a sound clip up today or tomorrow. I'm going into a good drum store sometime this week (GC has crappy Zildjian selection) so I'm gonna try out a few.

Hey thanks man. I'll be checking that out soon for sure. Good suggestions btw.

No problems. Btw I tried out the 16" and 18" AA rock crashes on Monday. Now I don't like to use the word 'gongy', but .... well it wouldn't be far off. Definitely not my sort of thing, but I guess it's individual opinion if you like them.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Any thoughts on the K custom hybrid crashes, anyone?

[ant_182]

I know pete just got one, I presume they sound Godly!.!


-Ant-

[Snarz]

I have a 20" Zildjian A Ping Ride right now. I want a ride I can crash yet still be able to ride on. I want it to have a nice bell. And when I crash on it, not to gongy. Not to washy. But has enough wash.

[Tim]

I have a 20" Zildjian A Ping Ride right now. I want a ride I can crash yet still be able to ride on. I want it to have a nice bell. And when I crash on it, not to gongy. Not to washy. But has enough wash.


Zildjian A sweet ride
Sabian AA medium ride

[Snarz]

Is the Sweet Ride ridable though? I heard it wasn't...

[Tim]

ive played it. it has some wash when riding but thats pretty much whats gonna happen if you want a crashable ride that isnt gongy.

[Drum Phil]

But that has a terrible bell.

I rather like the Vault Artisan medium ride.

[Tim]

true the bell is quite small on it. i really wanna try a jojo fierce ride.

[Drum Phil]

I personally dont like crashing rides :-/ But thats just me.

[Tim]

me either. if you wanna crash something maybe buy a crash...just maybe?
=D

[raz0r]

Is the Sweet Ride ridable though? I heard it wasn't...

It doesn't have all that much stick definition, so fast patterns don't cut through too well.

Sounds good as a crash though. I'm probably going to get myself a new ride, and use the sweet ride as a crash.

[Drum Phil]

me either. if you wanna crash something maybe buy a crash...just maybe?
=D

My thoughts exactly.

Plus i can have it low and access all areas of it if i dont wanna crash it.

[Pleaseme]

true the bell is quite small on it. i really wanna try a jojo fierce ride.

Thse things are dry with a capital dry.

[Seafroggys]

I have a 20" Zildjian A Ping Ride right now. I want a ride I can crash yet still be able to ride on. I want it to have a nice bell. And when I crash on it, not to gongy. Not to washy. But has enough wash.

keep that Pinger though. I have the 22" and its a beast!

[Snarz]

I was just playing again and I think I will keep it and just go for a larger crash.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Thse things are dry with a capital dry.

...so kinda the opposite of the sweet ride right?


Btw how much wash does the ping ride have? I find with most rides you can give it a bit of stick edge to increase the wash even if you don't fully crash it.

IDK but try a really large crash/ride maybe? Thought that might be even more sweet-ride-y than the sweet ride, if you get what I mean.

[bobby__johnny]

...so kinda the opposite of the sweet ride right?


Btw how much wash does the ping ride have? I find with most rides you can give it a bit of stick edge to increase the wash even if you don't fully crash it.

IDK but try a really large crash/ride maybe? Thought that might be even more sweet-ride-y than the sweet ride, if you get what I mean.

on its own, the ping ride will sound like it has a lot of wash to it...

add in the rest of the group playing, and that wash disapears. all stick on it from there on

[Jeff]

on its own, the ping ride will sound like it has a lot of wash to it...

add in the rest of the group playing, and that wash disapears. all stick on it from there on

even if you try to crashride it?

[MeaninglessPhoto]

Check out the K Custom Hybrid ride or the Sabian Paragon ride for crash and stick defininition.

[Zildjian]

crash a paragon? You nuts

[Snarz]

Anybody know what Sabian Hi-Hats these are?

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Bernard_Purdie16.html

[static]

K Ride = Best crashing ride ever.

[Zildjian]

^ nah, 2oo2's and sigs are much better crashes then K's

and better rides two...

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

^ nah, 2oo2's and sigs are much better crashes then K's

and better rides two...

omg blasphemy from zildjian lol

Apparently the bloke from audioslave uses a 22" 2002 ride of some type on the first 2 of their albums, if you wanna know what one might sound like in a band.

might be wrong on taht one tho:S

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

2002's rule

[DW_]

I don't know if anyone has made any suggestions for this earlier because I haven't read the thread, but I guess I'm looking for a cymbal that could be used for the most part like Jon Theodore's stack of broken cymbals. I can't afford to bust up older cymbals, so I'm going to be selling my china and I'd like to find something similar to that. and I'm sorry if a bunch of people have asked about this or if people are tired of talking about it. I just like the sound of it.

[PlatinumPhil]

Who's he?

You could just by some cheap *** wuhans and stack them?

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

Anybody know what Sabian Hi-Hats these are?

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Bernard_Purdie16.html

13" HH Regular's

[DW_]

Who's he?

You could just by some cheap *** wuhans and stack them?

He's the old drummer of The Mars Volta.

If nothing else works out, I'll probably end up doing something like that.

But does anybody else have any suggestions?

[fishbulb]

I'm not sure what it sounds like, but maybe find/buy some old sheet metal and deform it with the combination of chinas?

[static]

Just buy an 8" B8 splash and mount it upside down in a 14" wuhan china.





or something.

[DW_]

Thanks. I might as well just try out both of those

Anyone else with any suggestions feel free.

[Tim]

i have 2 wuhan trad splashes used as aux hats and they are pretty trashy. you might wanna stack them so they hit eachother or just buy an aux mount and have them permanately half open half closed.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

I'm assuming his broken stack sounds kind of nasty, so just get some cheap chinas/splashes and stack them I would've though.

[Daven]

I'm buying a splash soon. I need one that is cutting enough for playing rock and metal. Preferably a "10 or a "12, and by Zildjian or Sabian. My local store has only those two brands. Thanks.

[fishbulb]

10" Aax?

[MeaninglessPhoto]

sup guys...I love my Ping ride, but its too washy for me.

Im looking for a really dry ride, with very minimal wash, but a warm wash at that. I want it to have a nice bell on it too.

Just throw ideas at me.

[fishbulb]

K Custom Dry?

[static]

DAVEN -

A Custom splash.

[Daven]

I'll check those two out, thanks guys.

[stevensonmat2]

Hey guys, im thinking of looking into some aux hi hat, small ones with great control and response for funky playing. Suggestions?

[Bonham#1!]

Take 2 12 inch splashes and there you go.
Sounds cool.
DO IT DAMN YOU.

[MeaninglessPhoto]

Zildjian A 12" Special Recording hats.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Hey guys, im thinking of looking into some aux hi hat, small ones with great control and response for funky playing. Suggestions?

What Meaningless photo said, also:

Are you looking for crisp-type funky? If so check out some 13" A custom (mastersounds for a better response IMO), or look into Sabian HH or Zildjian K hihats in 13" for a warmer/darker type funky sound.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

K Custom Dry?

That's a good suggestion, only thing is, I have that ride and find that although dry, it also tends to get lost under other instruments quite easily as not only is it dark/warm but also very quiet and can't really get all that loud very easily. The wash is small, but is certainly warm I would say. Look into other K custom cymbals? Maybe a K Custom Hybrid (though that might have more wash than you want), or even a K Heavy Ride (though I haven't heard one in ages so it might not fit what you want.)

Hope that's kinda helpful :chug:

__________________________________________


I have a question of my own:

I'm looking for a splash for my kit, for pretty much playing anything and everything, perhaps not jazz, but pop, rock, funk, RnB (not the modern electronic type sh!t etc), heavy rock, punk, possibly metal. I'm guessing I would get something middle-ish that would be ideal for rock/pop but would also work OK for the heavier and lighter stuff.

So yeah, suggestions would be wicked, plus rep (once I can give some more out).

[Drum Phil]

Maybe an A Custom/AAX/Byzance?

[MeaninglessPhoto]

I wouldnt go A custom, but instead I would go A. They are very versitile. A custom do have some nice splashes though.

[MeaninglessPhoto]

That's a good suggestion, only thing is, I have that ride and find that although dry, it also tends to get lost under other instruments quite easily as not only is it dark/warm but also very quiet and can't really get all that loud very easily. The wash is small, but is certainly warm I would say. Look into other K custom cymbals? Maybe a K Custom Hybrid (though that might have more wash than you want), or even a K Heavy Ride (though I haven't heard one in ages so it might not fit what you want.)

Hope that's kinda helpful :chug:


Cool, cool. Thanks for the description man. It was very helpful.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Maybe an A Custom/AAX/Byzance?

I wouldnt go A custom, but instead I would go A. They are very versitile. A custom do have some nice splashes though.

Thanks, I'll look into them.

What do you guys think of the K custom hybrid splash, and also the Oriental trash splashes?


BTW Meaningless Photo, if you wanna hear a K custom dry ride in music, go to http://www.myspace.com/eightmtm, listen to the song "Lost", that is the ride there in the chorus. It sounds good, but bear in mind that a.) the song is mixed very wierdly/not well and b.) It is not usually as prominent compared to the other instruments as it is in the recording, i.e. live/in my living room where we practise. Nonetheless it sounds amazing when you can hear it, esp. me practising alone I don't get overwhelmed by volume or wash when there is no band to drown it out.

[FL3P]

The K Custom splashes are dry and dark but still have some volume and trash splashes are similar but with the trashy characteristic. Cool splashes but I wouldnt say they are great in louder situations, more for low to medium volumes or for accents.

[Little Android Man]

I wouldnt go A custom, but instead I would go A. They are very versitile. A custom do have some nice splashes though.

eww at Avedis splashes.
i cant stand their sound. it is just so... gross.

A customs on the other hand...

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

I've found a 10" AAX splash for £45 or an 8" for £40 second hand. I'm going to check these out later today, but do you reckon they'd be suitable-ish?

Also I'm going to look at a 16/17/18" HH medium thin crash - thoughts?

The guy also has a 12" AAX mini china, 18" A china low, 18" A custom china, and a 20" oriental china trash, all for way below what you would otherwise pay. Any ideas about these? I have about £135 - £160 to spend, which is roughly 1 crash at £85-95 + 1 splash at £40 - £45, with the chinas costing less than the crashes but more than the splashes (even the big 20" oriental for some reason).

So yeah, what do y'all reckon/

[Zildjian]

eww at Avedis splashes.
i cant stand their sound. it is just so... gross.

A customs on the other hand...

please, Avedis splashes are incredible

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

Indeed. The 12"=SEX

[Little Android Man]

please, Avedis splashes are incredible

i disagree completely.

there is one on my drumset at school that i play in jazz band.
it is teh gross.

[terry_b_wanna_b]

what do you guys think would be a better crash set up (which of these compliment best)

all cymbals paiste:
16 signature full, 17 signature full, 18 signature full
or
16 signature full, 17 signature full, 18 signature power
or
16 signature full, 17 signature power, 18 signature power
or
do none of these choices sound very good.

( You can listen to samples of these cymbals at paiste’s website: http://www.paiste.com/products/cymbals/signature_crashes.php )

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

Try em out in person, and try mixin them with different lines/dif companies.

I LOVE full crashes but there ya go

[terry_b_wanna_b]

i wish i could try them out in person, but they dont have anywhere in town that sells paiste, thats partially why im asking

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

Well tbh i'd never buy a cymbal without hearin it first (in person obviously) and on here to be fair you cna get VERY mixed responses on equipment.

What sound you goin for, what styles of music you play etc.

Thats helps

[terry_b_wanna_b]

what i was really wondering is if any of the previously mentioned setups sounded good together, i dont want to have something like a setup of z customs with a k custom in it, because some such stuff just dosent jive together

[static]

All Paistes sound the same.



And they're very accurate to the website clips.




I'd go for the full/full/full.

[terry_b_wanna_b]

i thought that the full/full/full combo would be very even and work well together, that they might sound all the same, but i wasnt sure that there was enough variety, hince the power crashes in the other setups (to be honest i thought that that might be to big of leap between cymbals), thanx for the advice, other opinions are welcome

[static]

They're very similar, but still very diverse and share a wide enough range.




As in it'll sound like 3 completely different cymbals.








Also, you could do full/fast/full.

[Drum Phil]

Yeah i'd probably go power/full/fast

Bigger cymbals take more power to move so you really want them to be the thinnest.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Yeah i'd probably go power/full/fast

Bigger cymbals take more power to move so you really want them to be the thinnest.

Also you could look at other brands if you wanted more variety. I have a Sabian HH medium thin crash with a Zildjian A custom crash and they go amazingly together, despite one being quite warm/dark and one being bright. personally I've never played Paistes except some of the beginner ones, and their sound clips on the website download themselves as mp3s in media player or whatever, which is a pain, plus I find their site hard to navigate, so I've never had any Paiste experience.

BTW it would really help if you said what sort of sound you're looking for, what sort of situations you're going to be playing which sorts of music in, etc.

[Drum Phil]

Interesting.

I have a Zildjian K Custom fast crash (Thin) and an AAXplosion (Medium-Thin) and they go very well together despite one being quick, warm and dark and one being explosive and bright.

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Interesting.

I have a Zildjian K Custom fast crash (Thin) and an AAXplosion (Medium-Thin) and they go very well together despite one being quick, warm and dark and one being explosive and bright.

Hmmm that is interesting - I was actually looking at a K Custom Fast Crash before I found they were very expensive and the HH was quite similar and scond hand :)

[Mr. Grill]

I want the longest sustaining, nastiest sounding china out there.

Suggestions?

[Drum Phil]

22" Oriental china trash? 22" Oriental classic china? 27" Saluda voodoo china?

[Ollie The Drumming Legend]

Generally I find the trashier something is the shorter its sustain is. I say the biggest oriental classic china you can find, as they sustain a lot more than the china trash but are still very trashy.

[The Chemist]

19" Paragon China

[MeaninglessPhoto]

Actually, TBH, the 20" Paragon has a longer sustain than the 19".

[byrkee]

should i get the 18" K CRASH RIDE or the 24" K LIGHT RIDE or the 18''Zildjian A Series Crash Ride Cymbal

links for sound clips:
http://zildjian.com/en-US/products/productDetail.ad2?catalogID=1009&typeID=9&productID=1412

http://zildjian.com/EN-US/products/productDetail.ad2?ProductID=2286

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Zildjian-A-Series-Crash-Ride?sku=443832

[Undisco Kidd]

24'' Rides are overkill.

Between those two, I'd go for the 18'' K, just because Crash/Ride's are great, although I would suggest a 18'' Istanbul Agop Mel Lewis 1982 Crash/Ride.

[MeaninglessPhoto]

If you want a good ride and crash, then get the 24". 18" rides are **** TBH.

[fishbulb]

18" rides are **** TBH.

Agreed.

Don't even mention crash/rides either.

[byrkee]

ok ill prolly get the k.

[DrumIntoTheNight]

Opinions on A Custom Projection Crashes? More specifically, the 16 and 17?

[Drum Phil]

They're far too abrasive for my liking.

The AAXPlosion is the same weight and much nicer.

[ant_182]

I dont like projection crashes. They sound aweful IMO


-Ant-

[Plan B.]

16\17 pwn, 18 is a bit to fierce

[Tim]

get the aax plosion i have one in 18inch and loveit.

[DrumIntoTheNight]

Phil, if you're on, you bought a Stagg Ice Bell, right? How are you finding it?

[Drum Phil]

I bought a stagg black metal bell.

I'd say its 100% better than a Zil-bel.

Less harsh, more musical.

Kinda sounds like a Sabian Radia Bell

[DrumIntoTheNight]

Excellent, thanks Phil.

[Drum Phil]

This is the recording pete made of it before i bought it.

http://media.putfile.com/Soundclips

[DrumIntoTheNight]

Even better, that's great. eBay, here I come.

[mario_y2k]

Hi guys, I'm looking for a nice pair of zildjian hihats, the nearest Guitar Center is in San Diego which is like 3hrs away from where I live so I am here expecting some help from you to make a decision... I want some crisp, clean and clear with good chick while closed and at the same time bright and washy but not to loud while open, I've been hearing some sound samples on the zildjian website to have an idea but I've heard they don't sound completely the same on person, but so far the ones I am liking are the 13/14" A Custom and the A Custom Mastersound I also like the K light hihats but I don't have much money, I have heard good things from the New Beat as well, anyway I play mostly rock and alternative (Oasis, Radiohead, Muse, Coldplay etc) what do you recommend?

[Seafroggys]

New Beats

[ant_182]

I recomend you try out all the mastersound range, a a cutsom k. I love the a mastersounds. Also try paiste 2002 SE's?


-Ant-

[Drum Phil]

New Beats

OMG I DIDNT SEE THAT COMING




Lol

[LoneStarDrummer]

new beats sound like crap. they have no life to them. try out avedis mastersounds or even k mastersounds for that style of playing.

[Seafroggys]

;14640366']new beats sound like crap. they have no life to them. try out avedis mastersounds or even k mastersounds for that style of playing.

You are ****ing kidding me.

They have more life to them than any hats I've played. Most hats are all tinny and ****, these have ****ing balls to them.

Neg rep to you!

[LoneStarDrummer]

calm down you whinny bitch. go suck on a bottle.

http://www.mercola.com/images/newsletter/2005/04/27/baby_bottle.jpg
^seafroggys

[Drum Phil]

They are a bit boring like.