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View Full Version : A shadows flame redone.. crits please


ABulldog
12-20-2004, 01:59 PM
I totally re-thought this song idea. It is more of a peom now then a song. It was one of my first songs and it really sucked. No one ever critiqued it. There is no chorus to the new one. If someone could critique this one please I would be happy to return a crit... thanks

Here is a link to the old song.
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167978&highlight=shadow+flame

A Shadows Flame

A shadows flame is made
Placed there by the butterfly’s flutter
It glows around and swallows us whole
Leaving dirty impressions on the wall

Silhouettes, sullied and black
Appear from the depths of lost time
Questioning eternity of life after life
Leaving you with anxious, blank stares

A candle is still burning
Keeping hope from dreams alive
Telling us to listen to imagination
Delirium rapt in pure hallucination

Children’s eyes untainted
Reminds only of the forgotten stare
Fluttering shadows made from a flame
Glows around and swallows us whole

morrissey
12-20-2004, 02:22 PM
black dot for you... I'll try to get to this later, you deserve it.

bamboomonkey
12-20-2004, 02:29 PM
I liked it. Short but sweet. And it works as a poem, some songs do not and yours could go either way. Bravo. Crit me if you want.

Perry
12-20-2004, 04:03 PM
i like, love it, 9.5/10 because i never give ten out of tens, so it's as good as

why? hell, i guess i'm afraif of them

sparkylp2002
12-20-2004, 04:49 PM
Ah hell, i type out a crit for this then the website crashed. Well i will write a shorten verseion of the crit saying everything my long version said.

The first two verses are very good, but in both the last line needs to be fixed up a bit. The third verse is good but nothing remarkable. The last verse is the weakest of all the other verses but it is still good but needs a bit of work. You get a 9/10. Sorry this crit is a bit crappy but i didnt feel like doing my long crit that i did ealier for this song.

IOWNU200
12-20-2004, 06:01 PM
A shadows flame is made
Placed there by the butterfly’s flutter
It glows around and swallows us whole
Leaving dirty impressions on the wall

This is pretty good, but I'm not really sure I like the imagery in the last line. I'm just not a fan

Silhouettes, dirty and black
Appear from the depths of time
Questioning eternity of life after life
Leaving you anxious with blank stares

I liked this verse alot. Good choice of words and some pretty good imagery. Nice job here.


A candle is still burning
Keeping hope from dreams alive
Telling you to listen to your imagination
Forgetting about reality and pure existence

Not as much of the imagery in vocab in this verse, but there's nothing seriously wrong with it.


Children’s eyes untainted
Reminds only of the forgotten stare
Fluttering shadows made from a flame
Glows around us and swallows us whole

This is pretty good. I see no misakes

Well, I liked it. It was sweet and short. I saw no real big errors. Good job.

ABulldog
12-21-2004, 01:00 AM
thanks. I like it... now i just have to find a way to turn it into a song... maybe just adding a simple chorus...


Anyone else... please....

thirdeyeblindislit
12-21-2004, 03:08 AM
A Shadows Flame

A shadows flame is made
Placed there by the butterfly’s flutter
It glows around and swallows us whole
Leaving dirty impressions on the wall

WHAT CAN CHANGE: Nothing. This first verse is pure genius!
THIRDEYE'S OPINION: I love the opening verse. Very powerful. Nice use of metaphors. I like it alot!

Silhouettes, dirty and black
Appear from the depths of time
Questioning eternity of life after life
Leaving you anxious with blank stares

WHAT CAN CHANGE: This verse didnt seem to flow as well as the first. You may want to make some word changes.
THIRDEYE'S OPINION: I didnt like this verse as much as the first one. It didnt seem to flow that well.

A candle is still burning
Keeping hope from dreams alive
Telling you to listen to your imagination
Forgetting about reality and pure existence

WHAT CAN CHANGE: The last line doesnt really appeal to me. You may want to try to use a different meataphor like forgetting about reality and concentrating on pure hallusination.
THIRDEYE'S OPINION: Better than the second verse, but still not as strong as the first. You want to try to keep the momentum going the whole time.

Children’s eyes untainted
Reminds only of the forgotten stare
Fluttering shadows made from a flame
Glows around us and swallows us whole

WHAT CAN CHANGE: You may want to put some rhymes in there, but it can do without.
THIRDEYE'S OPINION: I liked the emotioal feel I got from this verse. But still not as good as your first.

THIRDEYE'S VERDICT:
I liked all the metaphors in this song. It would work as a poem yes, song no. Some of the verses were kinda off flow but that may be just me. I still liked the message I got from it. It was very good. I do like this version better than the last one. You are a very talented writer. Use that gift, I swear it will be helpful. Nice job. :thumb: 9/10

ABulldog
12-21-2004, 12:20 PM
ok i changed some things around and added here and their based on some of your crits.... i hope it sounds a little better.

Bassman4000
12-21-2004, 12:54 PM
[A Shadows Flame

A shadows flame is made
Placed there by the butterfly’s flutter
It glows around and swallows us whole
Leaving dirty impressions on the wall

(This verse has some good imagery, and opens up the song/poem well)

silhouettes, sullied and black
Appear from the depths of lost time
Questioning eternity of life after life
Leaving you with anxious, blank stares

(This verse keeps the same feeling, expanding upon it even, but the imagery is not quite as powerful)

A candle is still burning
Keeping hope from dreams alive
Telling us to listen to imagination
Delirium rapt in pure hallucination

(Great verse, the imagery is getting less evident, but the message here is good, this is possibly the best verse)

Children’s eyes untainted
Reminds only of the forgotten stare
Fluttering shadows made from a flame
Glows around and swallows us whole

(I like the repitition ending the song/poem, it isn't as strong as the rest of the work, however)[/QUOTE]

Overall, I thoguth it was pretty good. It didn't really come through on its visual potential, but then if it did it mgiht have been to dark. Could you give mine a crit "Make me a Key"? Thanks.

perry589
12-21-2004, 01:02 PM
Too good for words to describe. ok maybe not, but still brilliant. The changes have made this poem better,i think. i don't like giving out 10s, so i give it a 9.9/10. it will help me. :thumb: :thumb:

ABulldog
12-21-2004, 01:12 PM
Anyone think that this could be turned into a song if I add a chorus?

I know Jim Morrison was able to turn his poetry into music... not saying I'm that good, but I think the song has that weird feel to it and is kind of a conceptual piece, so I think it could be done.

Bassman4000
12-21-2004, 01:19 PM
I would say don't make a chorus, and leave out a couple words, and you'll have a song. As long as the instrumental part speaks by itself and isn't heavily riff based, this would be a good song. Try to blend your voice in with the instruments, and it will work great.

I_am_@ss_man
12-21-2004, 07:45 PM
you cheap bastard, where are the rhymes? and your syllambles dont even line up...
content wise its alright, but then anything can be. making it rhyme and having systematic syllables while retaining the meaning is truly the art; you dont have that.

Nightvision
12-21-2004, 07:47 PM
umm... with all due respect buddy, that's BS.

morrissey
12-21-2004, 08:03 PM
you cheap bastard, where are the rhymes? and your syllambles dont even line up...
content wise its alright, but then anything can be. making it rhyme and having systematic syllables while retaining the meaning is truly the art; you dont have that.

I don't want to insult you, but you clearly know absolutely nothing about composing lyrics. Everyone has different styles, none of them are any more or less "artistic" or "meaningful" than another.

And personal insults are completely out of line. Either change your attitude, or leave. :wave:

jar_hed678900
12-21-2004, 08:08 PM
I second that ^. Woot woot morrissey old chap, and a hip hip huzza at that

Nightvision
12-21-2004, 08:09 PM
*pssst* mozza's a girl...

ABulldog
12-21-2004, 08:10 PM
Thanks for backing me up everyone... how can someone make that comment? I am not into writing nursury rhymes for mother goose. What you are talking about is just basic writing. The easiest form of making a song or poem.

I suggest you open up a poetry book and see how many of them follow your description, hotshot.

Nightvision
12-21-2004, 08:11 PM
ohhhh, snap! :D

morrissey
12-21-2004, 08:23 PM
I second that ^. Woot woot morrissey old chap, and a hip hip huzza at that

errr thank you. I think? :amaze:


to bulldog: no problem, the guy had no idea what he was talking about... and you do.

ABeautifulDissonance
12-22-2004, 07:11 AM
awesome imagery. i couldnt understand what it was about though. there were a few parts that gave me an idea but not really a consistent one. i'll have to come back to it and see if i can get it. i like the way its written though. sorry i couldnt be of much help. please crit my song

streetspirit
12-22-2004, 09:09 AM
you cheap bastard, where are the rhymes? and your syllambles dont even line up...
content wise its alright, but then anything can be. making it rhyme and having systematic syllables while retaining the meaning is truly the art; you dont have that.

i wasn't goona crit this but this reply just pissed me off so now i have to

what the hell is wrong with having no rhymes???!!! with rhymes you're constricted in ways and words to express what you're trying to say. Some of the best poetry doesn't rhyme (read william blake) and he sure as hell had "the art". besides, being poetry, it doesn't need a more definite pattern like songs do

as for turning it into a song, i say leave it if you can't feel it. David bowie once said that he tries to write poetry, but whenever he does, he couldn't help turning it into a song cos he automatically felt the music. so if you can't feel a chorus, leave it. its **** good either way

ABulldog
12-22-2004, 12:40 PM
i wasn't goona crit this but this reply just pissed me off so now i have to

what the hell is wrong with having no rhymes???!!! with rhymes you're constricted in ways and words to express what you're trying to say. Some of the best poetry doesn't rhyme (read william blake) and he sure as hell had "the art". besides, being poetry, it doesn't need a more definite pattern like songs do

as for turning it into a song, i say leave it if you can't feel it. David bowie once said that he tries to write poetry, but whenever he does, he couldn't help turning it into a song cos he automatically felt the music. so if you can't feel a chorus, leave it. its **** good either way
Thanks for the reply... man I have to stop coming in here and reading these crits cause I re-read what that guy said and it really cheeses me off.

Good point about feeling the chorus. I kinda found a rhythm to put to this and it isn't chord based. Just some creepy little thing on the guitar. I think it fits, but I also am thinking of making this a heavy instrumental based song. As far as the rhythm if it doesn't come i won't put one in like you guys suggested, but I may just put in a little one liner or even just a word, just to kind of signal that their is supposed to be a chorus.

ABulldog
12-22-2004, 12:48 PM
Oh yeah, what it is about.

Well, it's not what it is about that is important, but where I got the idea. I got the idea one night when the power was out and we lit a candle. The image it casted on the wall was the shadow of the flame. And what do you do when the power is out. You get drunk and if you have a GF or wife you do naughty things with them... which is true cause my friends mom, who works in a maternity ward, said that she can trace a lot of the births back to when there was a power outage.... or something like that.. maybe she asks the people.

So I'm sitting there drunk and I got lost, in a way, in the flame and then seeing beyond that and making strange things out of the shadows.... kinda like when you stare at the clouds for a while.

I wanted to put more imagery like everyone suggested in the middle verses and it's not that I can't think of anything, but I don't want to screw with the flow of the song right now.

ABulldog
12-22-2004, 12:56 PM
This is an early riff that I have for this song. It is a little dark, a little creepy, but simple. I want people to get lost in the music just as i did staring at the flame. If someone out there is a singer, then you can check to see if it fits with the lyrics at all.

This is tuned down a half step and played pretty slowly and just keep repeating it with a clean, slightly reverbed out sound. Maybe add in some other effects later.

-------------------------------------------
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------9----9----------7-----7-------------
----7-----7----9----7-----7----7----------
--7-----7----7----8-----8----8------------

Monkey:Dust
12-22-2004, 01:55 PM
Sorry for the lateness. I wrote this then I couldn't post it for some reason but luckily I used my sense and copied it so here it is. YOU BETTER READ IT!

A shadows flame is made
Placed there by the butterfly’s flutter
It glows around and swallows us whole
Leaving dirty impressions on the wall

Good start. It makes me want to read on although it doesn't really paint much of a picture.

Silhouettes, sullied and black
Appear from the depths of lost time
Questioning eternity of life after life
Leaving you with anxious, blank stares

Lot's of nice wording but the imagery isn't all that great still.

A candle is still burning
Keeping hope from dreams alive
Telling us to listen to imagination
Delirium rapt in pure hallucination

More good wording.

Children’s eyes untainted
Reminds only of the forgotten stare
Fluttering shadows made from a flame
Glows around and swallows us whole

Nice ending.

Overall: - The song doesn't present many clear imagery but there is flow throughout the stanza's. The structure looks consistant as well. The wording is the best point in this song. The volcabulary used is some of the best. I wouldn't bother with a chorus, either keep it as a poem or just sing it as it is. A chorus wouldn't make it any better, it'd probably take away from the piece. 8.5/10.

ABulldog
12-22-2004, 02:11 PM
thanks... yeah as far as putting more imagery in; it would be hard to do as to not mess with the nature of the flow.

thanks