the white noise

[witch doctor]

there seems to be very knowledgable people here on recording...

I am trying to record the piano with some $30 mic I have to my fostex mr-8 digital recorder. The problem is, I am getting an unbearable amount of white noise. I searched around online but most of the suggestions were to buy a new mic or buy other new equipment. I was hoping there was an alternative.

Will putting my mic through my mixer and cutting off the high-end frequencies reduce or hopefully eliminate the white noise?

I was also having difficulty picking up the bass of the piano; the higher parts seemed to always take over. if no one's yet done it, I would greatly appreciate a how-to on recording pianos.

thanks :thumb:

[thelemon32]

yeah, i'd like to hear about recording the piano too if someone wants to explain how to

[witch doctor]

after putting the song onto my computer, I noticed a few things.

First of all, the volume of the recording is VERY low. I had to import the file to a audio editing program and jack out the volume to get something audible at my normal sound settings.
Also, I noticed that the hiss/background noise is only noticable when the recording is put on at very high levels. Its sort of a good thing, but I would like to know how to eliminate the background noise altogether...you know, in case someone plays my recordings very loudly.

[moaner]

Right, the reason you're not getting the bass is probably one of two things:

-You're using a vocal mic that can't handle the low frequencies
-you're trying to record a whole pinao with one mic. Ideally you would obviously have the piano open and 3-4 mics on mic stands inside the piano and this would give you a recording with plenty of bass that I expect would be plenty loud enough.

I'm no doctor of white noise, but its probably background noise being amplified because you are recording too quietly. Where are putting the mic at the moment?

[witch doctor]

well, right now I have three mic's available, but only one mic stand; I can probably find some alternative to support two more. At the time I am only using one mic and I do have the piano open. The mic's down towards the bass end of the piano; I was hoping that would help a bit. But I will try to use my other mics now, thanks.

Also, should I get a mic preamp? Will that help boost the signal and hopefully get rid of some of the background noise? I am not sure if this will actually help or make the problem worse.

[moaner]

Also, should I get a mic preamp? Will that help boost the signal and hopefully get rid of some of the background noise? I am not sure if this will actually help or make the problem worse.

I'm afraid I've no idea.

Aes???

[KKKKKocaine]

after putting the song onto my computer, I noticed a few things.

First of all, the volume of the recording is VERY low. I had to import the file to a audio editing program and jack out the volume to get something audible at my normal sound settings.
Also, I noticed that the hiss/background noise is only noticable when the recording is put on at very high levels. Its sort of a good thing, but I would like to know how to eliminate the background noise altogether...you know, in case someone plays my recordings very loudly.

I am assuming you are using a dynamic mic to record?
This will explain alot, The frequency response of your average dynamic mic is 60Hz to - 16kHz.
The lowest key on a standard piano is around 27.5Hz.
Needless to say, the dynamic mic can't respond correctly to those sounds.
The 15th key only just comes into the 60Hz range.

Secondly, dynamic mics due to their internal power, have a heavier diaphragm, this means they are more sturdy, but less responsive to small sounds.
If you are mic'ing an entire piano with one mic then you will not be picking up much.

A good alternative would be a cheap condenser mic (£60 ish)
These have a frequency repsonse from 20Hz - 20Khz in most cases, enough to capture all your piano sounds.
Now because they require phantom power, they have a lighter diaphragm, this will break under loud noises, but it will also pick up everything about your instrument, so make sure it is perfectly tuned and nothing on the piano buzzes during play.

As for the white noise, I'm not exactly sure, but it may have something to do with your recording tools.

1. What cable are you using, has it been kept well? not bent, or left lying around, is it XLR?
2. What microphone are you using, is it a cheap dynamic mic, or an upper range one?
3. What are you recording onto, a cassette 4 track? The heads on the recorder may require cleaning e.t.c.

Hope this helped.

[witch doctor]

thanks, both of your input has helped a lot.

I will look into finding a condenser mic, do you have any suggestions?

As for the cable, it is XLR, but I would not say it has been kept well. I have sort of just left it on the floor until I began using it again.

It is a cheap dynamic mic, by audio technica. its actually in pretty bad shape (there's a dent in it). I also have two other mics available, but they are some old ones I had lying around by Lane. These two lane mics use XLR to 1/4" cables.

I am recording onto a fostex mr-8 (its a digital recorder). I also have a mixer available (a yamaha mg10/2), but I have not been using it yet (since the fostex allows me to connect two mics directly into it).

I think my mixer has phantom power, so that would probably cover me for the condenser mic. I would have to double check that though.

[KKKKKocaine]

thanks, both of your input has helped a lot.

I will look into finding a condenser mic, do you have any suggestions?

As for the cable, it is XLR, but I would not say it has been kept well. I have sort of just left it on the floor until I began using it again.

It is a cheap dynamic mic, by audio technica. its actually in pretty bad shape (there's a dent in it). I also have two other mics available, but they are some old ones I had lying around by Lane. These two lane mics use XLR to 1/4" cables.

I am recording onto a fostex mr-8 (its a digital recorder). I also have a mixer available (a yamaha mg10/2), but I have not been using it yet (since the fostex allows me to connect two mics directly into it).

I think my mixer has phantom power, so that would probably cover me for the condenser mic. I would have to double check that though.

Yeah the mixer probably will have phantom power, most do.

As for recommended mics, that will depend on your country, Some budget UK mics are not availible in the US and vice versa so if you tell me your country I'll see what I can do, but if you see any cheap condensers, look firstly at the frequency response, for piano you want something that starts at around 20Hz.

XLR cables can be damaged easily and lose their quality if not cared for.

[witch doctor]

I live in the US.

I probably should thinking about picking up a new XLR cable as well then. I wasn't aware they were damaged so easily

about the white noise...

I loaded the wav file into cool edit pro to see if the noise reduction feature would do anything. When I tried to see the waveform of the background noise, there wasn't any. I zoomed in on it but didnt see any of those telltale jags that indicate sound. It seems like people can hear the background noise but the program isn't picking it up.

[Moseph]

I live in the US.

I probably should thinking about picking up a new XLR cable as well then. I wasn't aware they were damaged so easily

about the white noise...

I loaded the wav file into cool edit pro to see if the noise reduction feature would do anything. When I tried to see the waveform of the background noise, there wasn't any. I zoomed in on it but didnt see any of those telltale jags that indicate sound. It seems like people can hear the background noise but the program isn't picking it up.

You need a preamp: microphones as a general rule don't produce a strong output, so you're basically always going to need a preamp, otherwise you get your exact problem. When you record a sound, you always record noise as well, usually it's pretty quiet if your mic/cable/preamp/recorder aren't completely worthless. If your signal isn't hot enough, and you crank up the volume digitally, you're also amplifying that noise. Ideally, you should have enough mic cables/stands to cover all the mics you're ever going to record with @ one time. The same holds up for preamps, so you might want to look into getting a rack unit or something w/ 4-8 preamps if your mixer doesn't have any built-in preamps.

[cashay350]

does your mixer have noise reduction? If so make sure its turned on. Also, make sure you have a good level before recording, You want as high a signal to noise ratio as possible. Hope I helped

[Aes820]

Check out Behringer for some decent yet very resonably priced Condensor mics. That can even handle close micing at moderate levels, a piano definately.

http://www.behringer.com/B-1/index.cfm?lang=ENG
http://www.behringer.com/C-1/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Of course you'd need a decent preamp for these. And Phantom power.
A mixer with a decent inbuilt mic preamp and that can provide phantom powering would defintely be the way to go.

A tube preamp would be even better.
http://www.behringer.com/MIC200/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Use a good quality XLR cable. And set the preamp gain appropriately. Setting a correct gain structure should eliminate all of your white noise. Don't ever tap on the microphone to check if it is working, rather click your fingers in front of it.

[witch doctor]

thanks for all your help, I will try everything that has been suggested.

one more request, though. can someone explain to me the signal to noise ratio? I don't really understand how to interpret it.

[cashay350]

All mics produce some amount of noise or hiss, the louder your music or signal is, the higher the sgnal to noise ratio.think of it like a room, the noise is the floor and the ceiling is where your signal distorts. You want to get your signal as close to the ceiling as possible with out hitting it. Does that make sense?