Dream Theater

[Clunge]

I can sit and listen to all 24 minutes of Octavarium 5 or 6 times a day.

It's so damn good.

Most of my alltime favourite songs are at least 7 minutes +.

[the2stranger]

I love long songs.
it's just more yummines, if you know what I mean.
I don't want an awesome song to end so fast.

np: DT - The Root Of all Evil
(I haven't listened to 8vm for ages :-/ )

[ghettoeddo]

length isn't a factor for me, but with the abundance of short clips of music here and there, something to just listen to and enjoy for a longER period of time is nice.

i like octavarium as a whole more than ACOS, because i think it sounds much more refined. but "another world" in ACOS easily takes the cake for "best section."

[Triangle]

I can easily sit through them simply because they're so varied.

[Happy]

Same here. It's not like they're using the same riff over and over.

[Kirk's Puppet]

I personally think ACoS is miles better than 8vm, though I love 8vm a lot.

Another World and the Crimson Sunset are just brilliant.

[Happy]

I love the vocal solos in it, and the Crimson Sunset. That piano bit is brilliant, even if it is only 3 or 4 notes.

[badtaste]

No way man.

It's actually quite awesome.

A Change of Seasons pretty much defines Progmetal.

Octavarium is just plain awesome.:thumb:

ACOS > Octavarium.

I keep saying this: Octavarium is exactly like 6DOIT. It isn't one song! It is several songs put into one track!

[Happy]

You could say that about ACOS too...

[chorbalan]

Anyone here like Images and Words at all? Just got it and I'm listening to it right now.

[Happy]

Well overall, it's probably this thread's favourite DT album.

[the2stranger]

I&W is my favorite album by DT :)

[nowitzki]

Anyone here like Images and Words at all?
My favourite album in the world.

[ghettoeddo]

ACOS > Octavarium.

I keep saying this: Octavarium is exactly like 6DOIT. It isn't one song! It is several songs put into one track!

and i keep saying this: the song octavarium has ties to every OTHER song on the album. it ties in w/ the whole concept of the album. in fact, it IS the concept of the album.

and waht does it matter if it's "several songs put into one track?" :confused:

[chorbalan]

Oh oh :) It has two of my favourite songs on it, Pull Me Under and Metropolis.

[GenuineImitation]

My favorite songs off of I&W is the entire album.

[ghettoeddo]

123123

[heavy metal kid]

My favorites songs of Images and Words are Pull Me Under, Metropolis, Take the Time, Under a Glass Moon and Learning to Live.

The encore of the new dvd is gonna be Metropolis, do they meant the whole song or just pt I?

[ghettoeddo]

pt I is the whole song on I&W

pt 2 is the entire SFAM album

[ThunderBass]

i assume they mean they single song... but with DT you never know...

[Element of LED 435]

lol thatd be a hell of a show, the whole 2nd disc of 6DoIT and the whole Metropolis pt 2. cd

[Kirk's Puppet]

There's definitely no pt.2 in the encore.

[heavy metal kid]

There's definitely no pt.2 in the encore.

i that when i saw The Spirit Carries on on the set list,i'm kind of dissapointed.

[badtaste]

and i keep saying this: the song octavarium has ties to every OTHER song on the album. it ties in w/ the whole concept of the album. in fact, it IS the concept of the album.

and waht does it matter if it's "several songs put into one track?" :confused:

Well, you know Dream Theater are getting desperate.

"Hey guys, we need to do another 20 minuteplus song. Any ideas?" - MP
"..." - Everyone else.
"Okay, we'll just do another 6DOIT, and write up tonnes of small songs and put them all into one song. Go the Portnoy Quintet!"
"..." - everyone else.

ACOS was on one theme. Nuff said.

[GenuineImitation]

i assume they mean they single song... but with DT you never know...


They didnt play Scenes From a Memory at the concert so its just part one.

[heavy metal kid]

that's pretty much how i imagine some of the dream theater pre-production ideas.

edit: reply to badtaste comment.

[ghettoeddo]

actually, their songwriting procedure is free-flow.

ppl have ideas. they dink around w/ em and keep adding ideas onto it, making the song grow. everyone is free to add any ideas at any point during the songwriting process.
that's why they're all so long.

they don't restrain themselves until tehy feel the song is finished. they don't limit themselves to a certain song structure/format.

and in the case of octavarium, it like ACOS, is about one theme. the idea of full circle. things ending where they began, or beginning where they ended.

[heavy metal kid]

You are right, but i still think the roots of their latest works are invented like badtaste said.

You know, like Metropolis pt II, MP actually said the idea was making a full lenght album based on one song, that was the main idea. The writting process is were they make the free flow procedure.

[eug008]

Giagntour DVD out September 5, 2006

Details:

SPECIAL 2-DISC SET! Megadeth leads the charge in this relentless heavy metal onslaught! The fast and furious Gigantour is the ultimate hard-rocking force. Captured here the top bands from the 2005 tour show why this was the best metal bill of the year PLUS you get into all the offstage action in a special bonus disc!



Featuring songs by Megadeth ("She Wolf," "A Tout le Monde," "Kick the Chair"), Dream Theater ("Glass Prison," "Panic Attack"), Fear Factory ("Transgression," "Archetype"), Nevermore ("Born," "Enemies of Reality"), Life of Agony ("Love to Let You Down," "Day He Died"), Symphony X ("Inferno," "Of Sins and Shadows"), Bobaflex ("Better Than Me"), Dry Kill Logic ("Paper Tiger," "Lost").

PACKED WITH SPECIAL FEATURES! Find out why the bands feel Gigantour is so special, Pyrotechnics, Moshing with Fear Factory, Life on a Bus, Tour Management, Pranks, Cover Songs, Backstage Footage, Birthdays and tons more!

Dave probably wanted to put heavier songs on the DVD (DT). pfft Ill buy it anyway, SX, Nevermore, DT and Deth is awsome.

The Site
http://www.image-entertainment.com/detail.cfm?productID=43524

[nowitzki]

^Sounds cool, no word of the Cemetary Gates cover though..

[GenuineImitation]

^Sounds cool, no word of the Cemetary Gates cover though..


Im sure it will be on there. I remember reading somewhere that Dave wanted it on the DVD.

[Element of LED 435]

at first a change of seasons seemed to drag on too long but now that i listen to it more n more i cant belive how great it is, man this mite turn out to be my favorite DT song

[Happy]

At first I was like OMG a song that goes on for more than 20 minutes, it must suck.
Oh, how wrong I was.

[ghettoeddo]

that DVD looks great, although i personally wouldn't minda longer DT portion of it rather than bobaflex or fear factory or something ;)

[Happy]

Same here. :p

[Moses]

I just got Octavarium and the first two songs are boring as ****. These Walls starts off pretty good and that's about where I am right now.

[jpshortstuff]

I just got Octavarium and the first two songs are boring as ****. These Walls starts off pretty good and that's about where I am right now.
that what i was like the first time i heard it, until Panic Attack, which made me sit up and say "Hello". After a few more listens i got into it more, as with most DT.

[GenuineImitation]

Octavarium really grows on you. At first I thought it was good, but not great. Now its one of my favorite cds.

[The Fonz]

Octavarium really grows on you. At first I thought it was good, but not great. Now its one of my favorite cds.

i loved octavarium when i first heard it, and it only grows on me.
that and john petrucci's solo album have'nt left my CD player for the past 2 weeks.

[Atica]

I loved this cd since I heard it. And my favorite song is Panic Attack.

[eug008]

^Sounds cool, no word of the Cemetary Gates cover though..

PACKED WITH SPECIAL FEATURES! Find out why the bands feel Gigantour is so special, Pyrotechnics, Moshing with Fear Factory, Life on a Bus, Tour Management, Pranks, Cover Songs, Backstage Footage, Birthdays and tons more!

Theres your Cemetery Gates

[Moses]

They really should have opened the cd up with Panic Attack.

[Atica]

They really should have opened the cd up with Panic Attack.
I think that the order of the songs would be better like this:
panic attack
never enough
the root of all evil
these walls
the answer lies within
i walk beside you
sacrified sons
octavarium

what do you guys think?

[GenuineImitation]

I think its fine the way it is. The songs were designed to simulate a musical octave. Hence the name octavarium. If you change the order, then the concept is gone. Also, Octavarium ends where the root of all evil begins. Not have TROAL as track one will ruin the theme of "coming full circle" , as well as the octave concept.

[Atica]

I think its fine the way it is. The songs were designed to simulate a musical octave. Hence the name octavarium. If you change the order, then the concept is gone. Also, Octavarium ends where the root of all evil begins. Not have TROAL as track one will ruin the theme of "coming full circle" , as well as the octave concept.
Wow, I haven't seen it like that. You are right man, thanks for that detail. :thumb:

[GenuineImitation]

Wow, I haven't seen it like that. You are right man, thanks for that detail. :thumb:


No problem. There is a whole site dedicated to the album. I'll get the link.


http://dt.spatang.com/octavarium.php

[Atica]

Thanks, since I read your post about the form of Octavarium, I searched about it and then noticed some cool stuff about the drawings on the cd and the lyric paper.

[GenuineImitation]

Thanks, since I read your post about the form of Octavarium, I searched about it and then noticed some cool stuff about the drawings on the cd and the lyric paper.


The album is really well thought out and is more progressive then people give it credit for. If you look at the link, it has a plethera of info on the album and individual songs. Its really worth checking out and reading. It makes you appreciate the album even more.


NP: Pull Me Under

[Atica]

Yeah, I noticed that, just the way that everything is linked to one another is amazing. They really had a very clear idea of what to create, this albun is just amazing.

[Inkstar]

First time I heard the album Octavarium: "What is this crap?"

Now: "Meh... It's alright."

[ghettoeddo]

first time i heard the album octavarium: "holy shiiiiiiiiiitt!"

now: "HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIITTT!"

[Lord Abortion]

Sacrificed sons is probably my favourite from that album at the moment.

[ghettoeddo]

great song great song.
im still a fan of the title track. brilliant. and very playable too :] minus the freaking shredding bit, btu even that's doable. it's just the same pattern.

[badtaste]

First time I heard Octavarium: Not bad. TROAE was good, Panic Attack was good, but that was about it.

Haven't listened to Octavarium since last year maybe. When did it come out in Australia? Well, the point is I haven't listened to it in a long, long, long time.

Just a rant: on the Dream Theater boards, when Octavarium first came out, it pissed me off how everyone was comparing the flute section to the Godfather theme. That was probably the only other tune they knew with a bloody flute in it!

[Clunge]

Octavarium is by far my favourite DT album now.

I can't stop listening to it, These Walls, Never Enough and Panic Attack work as a great middle to the CD, ROAL opens well and Octavarium itself closes the CD is grand style.

So yeah, Octavarium :cool:

[ThunderBass]

first time i heard the album octavarium: "holy shiiiiiiiiiitt!"

now: "HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIITTT!"

amen to that!! :) "These Walls" has been stuck in my head for the last three days...

[Happy]

I actually bought it for myself yesterday, my friend can have his copy back after what, 6 months? :p

[ghettoeddo]

First time I heard Octavarium: Not bad. TROAE was good, Panic Attack was good, but that was about it.

Haven't listened to Octavarium since last year maybe. When did it come out in Australia? Well, the point is I haven't listened to it in a long, long, long time.

Just a rant: on the Dream Theater boards, when Octavarium first came out, it pissed me off how everyone was comparing the flute section to the Godfather theme. That was probably the only other tune they knew with a bloody flute in it!

i love that flute melody. so simple, yet so elegant.
im a sucker for orchestral instruments, seeing as how i've been in one for many years

[Happy]

I've never ever heard someone compare the flute to Godfather :confused:

A little late.

[bwnstl]

I've never ever heard someone compare the flute to Godfather :confused:

A little late.

"- 4:33 - Änglagård flute “Godfather” theme similarities"

From the analysis at:
http://dt.spatang.com/octavarium.php

[Happy]

Have they updated that site again?
I swear there's new stuff on it.

[Lord Abortion]

amen to that!! :) "These Walls" has been stuck in my head for the last three days...
It's one of the best songs on there.

[MeTaLfAcE]

Has anybody here listened to Pipo and Elo? For those who don't know, Pipo and Elo are a couple who released an acoustic tribute cd of some Dream Theater songs. The guitar work sounds pretty good but the girl singing needs to be put to sleep.

[nowitzki]

^Yeah, some of the tracks are great, while others don't work so well. I actually quite like the vocals.

[Blue Collar Man]

This could be the funniest video I've ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPnihjpOk3I

Bow down to Petrucci's ultimate guitar solo.

[ghettoeddo]

First time I heard Octavarium: Not bad. TROAE was good, Panic Attack was good, but that was about it.

Haven't listened to Octavarium since last year maybe. When did it come out in Australia? Well, the point is I haven't listened to it in a long, long, long time.

Just a rant: on the Dream Theater boards, when Octavarium first came out, it pissed me off how everyone was comparing the flute section to the Godfather theme. That was probably the only other tune they knew with a bloody flute in it!

i love that flute melody. so simple, yet so elegant.
im a sucker for orchestral instruments, seeing as how i've been in one for many years

[ghettoeddo]

This could be the funniest video I've ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPnihjpOk3I

Bow down to Petrucci's ultimate guitar solo.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
:p

[Atica]

This could be the funniest video I've ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPnihjpOk3I

Bow down to Petrucci's ultimate guitar solo.

jajajajajaja. That was very funny dude!!!:thumb:

[Chu]

This could be the funniest video I've ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPnihjpOk3I

Bow down to Petrucci's ultimate guitar solo.
I hated that :angry:

Lie being my favourite Petrucci solo...

Edit: I really like the Lie video clip :p
Is there like a DVD available which has all DT video clips?

*Watching it on GoogleVideo is bad because of the quality :/

[Tails]

I hated that :angry:

Lie being my favourite Petrucci solo...

Edit: I really like the Lie video clip :p
Is there like a DVD available which has all DT video clips?

*Watching it on GoogleVideo is bad because of the quality :/

5 years/LiT DVD has all of them up until FII. I don't think they made any after that anyways.

[Moses]

It's seems with Octavarium they didn't really care about shredding as much, just making kickass songs. And that's the way it should be.

[Sharkeyes89]

CANT WAIT FOR THE NEW RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL DVD!!

with six degrees of inner turbulence with full orchestra and metropolis pt. 1 as an encore

its gonna ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eug008]

This dvd will be pretty kickass

Heres the set for those who don't know

04/01 - New York, NY - Radio City Music Hall
1. The Root of All Evil
2. I Walk Beside You
3. Another Won
4. Afterlife
5. Under A Glass Moon
6. Innocence Faded
7. Raise The Knife
8. The Spirit Carries On
~~Intermission~~
The remaining songs were performed with a 20+ piece orchestra.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence:
9. i. Overture
10. ii. About To Crash
11. iii. War Inside My Head
12. iv. The Test That Stumped Them All
13. v. Goodnight Kiss
14. vi. Solitary Shell
15. vii. About To Crash (Reprise)
16. viii. Losing Time/Grand Finale
17. Vacant
18. The Answer Lies Within
19. Sacrificed Sons
20. Octavarium
~~Encore~~
21. Metropolis Pt. 1

[eug008]

Found this on the DT fourms, pretty awsome video and it has most of their music videos (Lie, Another Day, Take The Time), Interviews and a few live performances (The Silent Man and parts of 6:00 and Caught In A Web i think)

Dream Theater Uncovered Special

http://www.dreamtheater.net/bb/showthread.php?t=96322&page=5

Here are the links

Pt1
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0p645a

Pt2
http://www.sendspace.com/file/djxevh

Pt3
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ijrx0f

[ghettoeddo]

I hated that :angry:

Lie being my favourite Petrucci solo...

Edit: I really like the Lie video clip :p
Is there like a DVD available which has all DT video clips?

*Watching it on GoogleVideo is bad because of the quality :/

yea lie has an amazing solo (especially the 2nd one), but it was still funny XD

i hear there's a malmsteen one floating around. i wanna see that one too

[Happy]

Malmsteen what?

The DVD sounds amazingly sexy.

[Chu]

You know how some guy made a video of Petrucci's Lie Solo?
There's a rip at Malmsteen too :p

I guess he's got a problem with shred?

I wouldn't really call the Lie solo shred (Well, the legato run at the beginning of the solo, but sif that makes the whole thing shred).

[Happy]

Oh right. I'm gonna look for it.

[Chu]

Heh, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZzBkC4G-qE&search=john%20petrucci) is pretty cool.

[Happy]

Haha, I remember that video, only because I was playing at the time and a string snapped and ended up in my finger.

[ghettoeddo]

there's nothing wrong w/ shred imo if its used sparingly and well.

methinks petrucci likes it just a tad too much. he's still one of my favorite guitarrists though

[Happy]

I thought it wasn't needed on things like the Hollow Years improv and Through Her Eyes on SFNY.
Otherwise, keep the shred coming.

[jpshortstuff]

i think it was quite good on hollow years on L@B, but yeah THE was going a bit far.

[ghettoeddo]

agreed.
it was ok on hollow years...but i think it would've been better if it hadn't been there.

his vibrato amazes me. it's so clean.

[temporary]

I thought it wasn't needed on things like the Hollow Years improv and Through Her Eyes on SFNY.
Otherwise, keep the shred coming.

Personally, I think that the improv on Hollow Years is a perfect example of how shred can be used well. Same goes for Another Day.

[Lord Abortion]

Yeah, the hollow years bit is amazing, comes into the song flawlessly.

[Blue Collar Man]

Here's the Michael Romeo one if anyone wants to see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu-Ukl2rmE8

Unfortunately the Malmsteen one was removed.

[Happy]

:lol:
Wasn't as funny as the Petrucci one though, he's getting better :p

[Atica]

Here's the Michael Romeo one if anyone wants to see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu-Ukl2rmE8

Unfortunately the Malmsteen one was removed.

OK this was very funny and very well done too. :p I hope to see Malmsteen's soon.:)

[nowitzki]

Um... no.

[Blue Collar Man]

Wtf was that about?

Anyway what about Dream Theater?

[Atica]

I was listen DT right now and came up with this question, which i can't still answer. What song do you like more A Cahnge of Seasons or Octavarium?

[Blue Collar Man]

I like Octavarium better personally. I actully don't think I like ACOS quite as much as everyone else seems to. It just doesn't seem up to par with thier other epics but I still love it. Octavarium on the other hand is more gripping to me and full of more lushious melodies and moods.

[Chu]

there's nothing wrong w/ shred imo if its used sparingly and well.

methinks petrucci likes it just a tad too much. he's still one of my favorite guitarrists though
Meh, imo Petrucci does't shred enough...

[ghettoeddo]

^ are you joking? it's pretty much all he does ><

i prefer 8vm more over ACOS myself at this point. although another world and razor's edge are tied as overall favorite sections.

[Chu]

Asif he does.

Or maybe we just have different definitions of shred, Yngwie is someone who shreds all the time, Petrucci shreds, but not enough.

[Happy]

He shreds enough in my opinion. We don't need more, I struggle to play the songs as they are.

[Chu]

Damn, I love it...

I want more Erotomania's god damnit.

*Sigh* ... Maybe just another Awake... :smoke:

Edit: Mmm.. Listenning to Overture 1928 from LSFNY... Mmmm :drools:

[Happy]

If he wrote more solos like the Erotomania one, that'd be great.

[Enlighten Me]

Damn, I love it...

I want more Erotomania's god damnit.

*Sigh* ... Maybe just another Awake... :smoke:

Edit: Mmm.. Listenning to Overture 1928 from LSFNY... Mmmm :drools:

Overture 1928 is probably my favorite DT instrumental, and imo Jordan's best keyboard solo.

[Happy]

The piano bits in that & Strange deja vu are amazing.

[Mr.Metalton]

i dont know about u guys but i think they need to make another liquid tension album.

[Happy]

It'll never happen. :(

[ThunderBass]

have they completely canned LTE? its probably old news but i live under a rock... :)

and yeah, Overture 1928 and Strange Deja Vu are 10 of the best minutes in music around...

[ghettoeddo]

have they completely canned LTE? its probably old news but i live under a rock... :)

and yeah, Overture 1928 and Strange Deja Vu are 10 of the best minutes in music around...

yea they've canned LTE for now.

NP: biaxident-LTE

overture 1928 is my favorite instrumental as well. it's actualyl pretty playable also. im not even gonna try and play any ToT songs...

[ghettoeddo]

Asif he does.

Or maybe we just have different definitions of shred, Yngwie is someone who shreds all the time, Petrucci shreds, but not enough.

this is true. this is true.
i'd change that to say "yngwie is someone who shreds all the time, Petrucci shreds just not as much."
not enough and not as much are 2 different things :smoke:

[Chu]

this is true. this is true.
i'd change that to say "yngwie is someone who shreds all the time, Petrucci shreds just not as much."
not enough and not as much are 2 different things :smoke:
Well it's both, not as much, and not enough! :smoke:

Edit: I really love Petrucci's mastery(?) of the fretboard, I wish he would release a Yngwie-esque style shred CD.
Listenning to anything by LTE, DT or JP, the second JP begins a Lead/Riff, I just get so excited, even if it's a song I've heard x^10 times, each time I listen to it, I pick up on something subtle that I missed out on before.

I really like John Petrucci as a guitarist, I think if I had to pick a biggest influence, technique-wise it would be JP, I have studied his technique so much, and my own technique is derived heavily from his...

I heard people calling Suspended Animation a shred album when it first came out, well yeah it has glimpses of shred, but it's pretty far from a full blown shred album imo (My mum enjoys Suspended Animation, my mate's enjoy Suspended Animation, but put on a song which is played by say Yngwie, and they hate it).

[Inkstar]

>_>

I'm really starting to dig 8vm more now. The title track is really blowing me away, and I'm progressing into loving the other songs.

[Moses]

I'd say Petrucci is probably one of the best guitarists when he tries to put some emotion in his solos. There was an improv solo at Gigantour last year at the end of In The Name Of God, and it was probably one of the best and most emotional solos I've ever heard. I don't really like his shredding though, it's just too exact.

Octavarium is probably their best really really long song to me. It takes a while to kick in but when it does it's really awesome.

[ghettoeddo]

I'd say Petrucci is probably one of the best guitarists when he tries to put some emotion in his solos. There was an improv solo at Gigantour last year at the end of In The Name Of God, and it was probably one of the best and most emotional solos I've ever heard. I don't really like his shredding though, it's just too exact.

Octavarium is probably their best really really long song to me. It takes a while to kick in but when it does it's really awesome.

glad to see some petrucci fans on thsi forum.
it's the "in" thing to bash him just because he's somewhat good :rolleyes:
no matter what people say, the man plays w/ so much soul...they relaly haven't heard the variety of his solos if all they say is "he shreds."

and to whomever said "he's too exact in shredding", since when was precision a bad thing? :confused: i thought precision was a good thing all the time. unless you're talking like...free-flow hendrix-ish dealio

octavarium is my favorite epic. more so than ACOS and LTL.

[Moses]

Well, Petrucci's shred just sounds like needles. It's okay sometimes but most of the time it's just annoying. I'd rather hear his soul.

Petrucci actually playing > Petrucci Shred

That's all I'm really saying.

[ghettoeddo]

hokay :smoke:

i agree w/ that too. and he most defiitely can actually "play."

[Lord Abortion]

I prefer AOCS to 8VM, personally.

There's not enough times I can listen to the former in a day I like it so much.

[Chu]

Petrucci actually playing > Petrucci Shred

That's all I'm really saying.
Definately, but the man can make some pretty good shred....

[Enlighten Me]

Well, Petrucci's shred just sounds like needles. It's okay sometimes but most of the time it's just annoying. I'd rather hear his soul.

Petrucci actually playing > Petrucci Shred

That's all I'm really saying.


I don't know why so many people bash Petrucci, to me he is awsome, shred or not.
lol, yeah the As I Am solo sounds like needles.

[Inkstar]

To me Petrucci is GOD.

Ok, that's cleared. Petrucci is absolutely awesome.

NP: I Walk Beside You (don't particularly like this song, but I'm listening through the entire album many times over).

[Happy]

Yeah just don't say that anywhere near the guitar forums.

But I do agree.

[ever eeking always rupert]

Can anyone hear what is being sung by the back up singer at the end of ITNOG?

[Happy]

Do you mean the choir?

[Tails]

Can anyone hear what is being sung by the back up singer at the end of ITNOG?

The chant/hymn is called "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", and it was written by Julia Ward Howe in 1861 during the Civil War to the tune of a popular camp song of the time.

The verse sung in "In the Name of God" is as follows:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

[ghettoeddo]

Yeah just don't say that anywhere near the guitar forums.

But I do agree.

i still fail to understand why he's bashed so much. it's clear he has compositional and technical prowess and complete fingerboard mastery.
he lacks a little bit in emotive playing w/ dream theater (but his other stuff, he shines through) and maybe a product of hours and hours of precise metronomical playing, but i have never thought that to be a bad thing.

as a musician of 10+ years myself, that's the ultimate goal every musician strives to be (in the classical world at least). precision, technical and expressive mastery.

[Happy]

Why is he bashed so much?
Because some of the most influential posters in there don't like him and somehow it caught on and now it's cool to hate him.

[ever eeking always rupert]

The chant/hymn is called "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", and it was written by Julia Ward Howe in 1861 during the Civil War to the tune of a popular camp song of the time.

The verse sung in "In the Name of God" is as follows:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
Wow thanks. Interesting stuff.

[Moses]

I'm learning the part in The Glass Prison during the verse where Rudess brings back that lead that was first done on guitar. It's around 3:40-3:50ish. Not as hard as it sounds.

[Chu]

Yeah, Petrucci's Arpeggio run in The Glass Prison is a good place to start with sweeping imo.. Only 3 strings, and it has some rolling.

[GenuineImitation]

I suck at arpeggios. I guess I'll try to learn the glass prison arpeggio because it seems easier than alot of Petrucci's other arpeggios.

[Chu]

Well, the TGP Arpeggio run is the only arpeggio I've ever played (I can't really make anything up, I've tried some Jason Becker, but don't usually get past say the 3rd note :p), but after a few months of playing it, I can sweep pretty well now.. I think the main problem for me was getting the whole Left Hand/Right Hand timing correct...

[badtaste]

Anyone have any videos of NBA Spurs games, where they play DT as the team intro?

I heard that their sound man is a DT fan or something.

Oh, I think they played a snippet of TGP during game 5 in their last series.

[eug008]

Well that sounds interesting

[zekism]

what do u rate as DT's best epic?? A Change Of Seasons or Octavarium??

[Happy]

ACOS. We've been debating this over the last page or so :p

I suck at arpeggios. I guess I'll try to learn the glass prison arpeggio because it seems easier than alot of Petrucci's other arpeggios.
It is pretty easy, especially if I can play it :p

[nowitzki]

Anyone have any videos of NBA Spurs games, where they play DT as the team intro?

I heard that their sound man is a DT fan or something.

Oh, I think they played a snippet of TGP during game 5 in their last series.
What song did they play? I have heard some cool songs get played at Spurs games, like snippets of 6:00 and Metropolis. And they used to play Planet Hell by Nightwish for the team intro.

[Happy]

You're talking about the NBA right?
Because DT at Spurs (tottenham) games would definitely make me go.

[Element of LED 435]

a really great shred by him is the sweeping arpeggios in Glass Prison, even though they are without emotion they are so complex and crazy awesome

[GenuineImitation]

You're talking about the NBA right?
Because DT at Spurs (tottenham) games would definitely make me go.

If they are talking about the NBA, I have now become a big Spurs fan.

[ThunderBass]

for sure... how awesome would it be running out onto the court to DT?

[GenuineImitation]

It would be great. Im not even a big basketball fan, but I would go to a Spurs game for a 20 second clip of DT.

[Lord Abortion]

You're talking about the NBA right?
Because DT at Spurs (tottenham) games would definitely make me go.
I don't need an excuse to see Man United, but if they suddenly decided to utilise good music before matches...that would be double-plus-good.

[nowitzki]

Haha, yeah I was talking about the NBA.
Dream Theater before a football match though... I just can't imagine it.

[jpshortstuff]

yeah its hard to form a chant when the time signature keeps changing.

[ThunderBass]

lol youd be blown away though if you were sitting in the crowd and DT started pumping though...

at that point youd be 'who cares how the match results im happy'... lol

[nowitzki]

I'm now imagining a football crowd chanting the tune to The Dance of Eternity. Man, that would be something.

[Happy]

After the intro it's gonna be a bit hard to keep a constant chant going though :lol:

[GenuineImitation]

I'm now imagining a football crowd chanting the tune to The Dance of Eternity. Man, that would be something.


By football you mean soccer right? I hate how sports have different names in America and Europe. Its so confussing. Why cant you guys change to meet our standards :p

[ThunderBass]

^^ typical seppo... :P

but yeah i dont think 'dance of eternity' was what we had in mind lol...

[nowitzki]

By football you mean soccer right? I hate how sports have different names in America and Europe. Its so confussing. Why cant you guys change to meet our standards :p
You wish! We thought of it first. Besides, the name football suits soccer much better than American football.

[ThunderBass]

that it does... have you ever seen Aussie football however?

[alytee123]

Maybe you dudes can help me...im kinda new to dream theater. I've downloaded a few tracks from limewire (yes naughty me) and im lovign them but I need the right track names for a few songs that have screwed up track names. Theres one song where the lyrics is like ' I swear I never ment to hurt you' and the closing line of lyric is '..and i feel alone' Any help?

[jpshortstuff]

i cant tell from that. what kind of song is it heavy or more proggy?
chorus lyrics?

[alytee123]

The 'I never ment to hurt you is the main line in the chorus. Its quite a melodic chorus whilst the rest of the song is pretty straight forward heavy. Theres some DJ scratching in the verses.

[ghettoeddo]

Maybe you dudes can help me...im kinda new to dream theater. I've downloaded a few tracks from limewire (yes naughty me) and im lovign them but I need the right track names for a few songs that have screwed up track names. Theres one song where the lyrics is like ' I swear I never ment to hurt you' and the closing line of lyric is '..and i feel alone' Any help?

i actually think that's not a dream tehater song.

it's probably from james labrie (the vocalist)'s solo project "elements of persuasion."
i think it's track 5. it's called "lost."

it almost sounds linkin-park-ish w/ the whole techno thing eh?

graduation was awesome :]

[jpshortstuff]

ah found it, it is James Labrie, its track #2 from elements of Persuasion - Alone

[alytee123]

Thanks dudes \m/

[eug008]

Anyone else heard James LaBries "Elements Of Persuasion", it's quite good

[Lord Abortion]

I'm going to but it when I have some spare cash.

[Inkstar]

Yeah it is actually pretty good. I quite like it.

[eug008]

Anyone have any audio or video from the Elements Of Persuasion tour? that'd be damn awsome if someone did

[temporary]

Anyone have any audio or video from the Elements Of Persuasion tour? that'd be damn awsome if someone did

Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet. *Goes Youtubing*

[Happy]

I've never heard LaBrie's solo stuff.

I take it it's good?

[ghettoeddo]

it is very good.
dream theater's level of musicianship (somewhat) but much more....simpler and "mainstream" if you will. some tracks sound extremely radio-friendly and could be potential hit singles.

labrie's vocals really shine. and his guitarrist (marco sfogli) is heavily influenced by petrucci and even uses his sig 7-stringer on most songs, if that says anything :]

[Happy]

Awesome.
I'll have to look into his stuff then.

[ghettoeddo]

has anybody heard the mullmuzzler stuff?
or any rudess-morgenstein projects? i wanna look into them too

[eug008]

Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet. *Goes Youtubing*

Theres none but i did find a video of him triping over on stage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ57Rm3vkMc

[eug008]

has anybody heard the mullmuzzler stuff?
or any rudess-morgenstein projects? i wanna look into them too

Yup me too, I just got Mythology (Derek Sherinian), its damn good

[Kirk's Puppet]

Anyone care to upload their Number of the Beast cover? I've heard their cover of Children of the Damned and LaBrie hits the final note brilliantly!

I'm off to buy An Evening with JR and JP later :D

[Kirk's Puppet]

Why is he bashed so much?
Because some of the most influential posters in there don't like him and somehow it caught on and now it's cool to hate him.

I agree. Amit, Ben, etc. Ouch, how much I hate them.

I don't get why people say JP has no soul in his playing. With songs like The Spirit Carries On, Lie, A Change of Seasons, Octavarium, and not to mention most of his songs on Suspended Animation, how can he has no soul in his playing?

[Deth]

Yeah, I don't know why they say that. Most people seem to just say that about anyone who can play fast though.

[BurningSky]

People say that because JP's solos are just major and/or chromatic scale runs. His rhythm playing is awesome, and he writes some pretty sweet stuff, but, when it comes to improvising and soloing, he doesn't really go outside the box...

He's no doubt a great guitarist, but the "no soul" label gets put on him because his soloing style isn't very creative...

[Moses]

People say that because JP's solos are just major and/or chromatic scale runs. His rhythm playing is awesome, and he writes some pretty sweet stuff, but, when it comes to improvising and soloing, he doesn't really go outside the box...

He's no doubt a great guitarist, but the "no soul" label gets put on him because his soloing style isn't very creative...
He did an improv solo at the concert I went to at the end of In The Name of God and it totally had the most soul I've ever heard out of someone improvising. Every note was perfect.

[BurningSky]

He did an improv solo at the concert I went to at the end of In The Name of God and it totally had the most soul I've ever heard out of someone improvising. Every note was perfect.

I never said that JP had no soul. I'm actually defending him as a good guitarist. The people that say he has no soul are dumb. I will say that his improvisation skills are lacking in comparison to A LOT of other guitarists though. In comparison, JP doesn't measure up to the greats of improv. But, like I said before, I really enjoy what he does, he writes some awesome riffs...

[pep]

Some cool slow JP solos are the ones on Goodnight kiss/Solitary Shell and Hollow Years on Live at Budokan.

[BurningSky]

Some cool slow JP solos are the ones on Goodnight kiss/Solitary Shell and Hollow Years on Live at Budokan.

Everybody misunderstands this, though...

Slow=/=emotion and fast=/=soulless

Soul comes from a combination of note choice and phrasing. It has nothing to do with how fast or slow someone is playing. If the guitarist is grooving with the rhythm of the song and choosing notes that imply certain moods with the backing chords, then he will present a certain message in the solo. The problem that people have with JP's soloing (most of the time) is phrasing. JP runs up and down his scales like nobody's business, which is impressive, but not very expressive...

Now, this isn't true 100% of the time. You mentioned Goodnight Kiss, which is a really good solo. His phrasing is very good (influenced heavily from the phrasing-God, David Gilmour), and his note choice fits the chords behind it. Most of the time, this isn't the case, though...

[Element of LED 435]

i cant stop playing take the time all of a sudden.... its so addictive

[Chu]

But everyone has a different form of expression...

Just because what maybe John Petrucci finds emotional isn't what you find emotional, who's to say it's not?

Personally, I love JP's note choices in nearly all his solos, probably more so his shred (He makes exceptional shred :p), but that's note to say his non-shred solos are bad.

To me he has a perfect ear and knowledge of writing music, he writes probably my favourite music, and it seems so easy for him to do it...

[BurningSky]

But everyone has a different form of expression...

Just because what maybe John Petrucci finds emotional isn't what you find emotional, who's to say it's not?

Personally, I love JP's note choices in nearly all his solos, probably more so his shred (He makes exceptional shred :p), but that's note to say his non-shred solos are bad.

To me he has a perfect ear and knowledge of writing music, he writes probably my favourite music, and it seems so easy for him to do it...

If he is happy with what he does, and you are happy listening to it, then it would seem that he has done his job then, and that's all that matters...

[Chu]

If he is happy with what he does, and you are happy listening to it, then it would seem that he has done his job then, and that's all that matters...
Very true :chug:

[Lord Abortion]

I would agree, I feel the same as Chu...Petrucci's music, given the miniscule amount I know about the guitar and music in general, is incredible.

[Happy]

I would give my legs to be able to improv as well as he can.

[Lord Abortion]

The intro to About to crash is now my new favourite Petrucci riff.

[pep]

My favorite petrucci riff is the intro and what follows in Paradigm Shift.

[GenuineImitation]

I dont really have a favorite Petrucci riff because I love all of them. Its really hard for me to choose.


Im thinking about getting this guitar.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/product/images/page=1/base_pid=513100

[Shattered_Future]

Petrucci's best stuff is on the live album he did with Rudess...I heard that was completely improved as well.

[GenuineImitation]

Petrucci's best stuff is on the live album he did with Rudess...I heard that was completely improved as well.

Im prettu sure it was imporvised.

[Lord Abortion]

Afterlife is such a good song

/listens to WDADU properly all the way through for the first time.

[ghettoeddo]

i cant stop playing take the time all of a sudden.... its so addictive

123123
still my favorite DT song. been like that for a month.

im slowly liking blind faith a lot though.

an evening with petrucci/rudess was mostly improvised. they had a basic structure written for the songs, but otherwise, allllll improv :]

im finally glad to see some petrucci defenders. i love the man.
NP: blind faith

[JamJar]

I'm listening to I&W for the first time in ages, I forgot how kickass it is considering I haven't listened to DT at all in a long time.

[ghettoeddo]

blind faith has just hit me like an epiphone. epiphany. whatever.

oh my god. orgasmarrific.

[bwnstl]

123123
still my favorite DT song. been like that for a month.

im slowly liking blind faith a lot though.

an evening with petrucci/rudess was mostly improvised. they had a basic structure written for the songs, but otherwise, allllll improv :]

im finally glad to see some petrucci defenders. i love the man.
NP: blind faith

Most of the songs on Liquid Tension Experiment 2 were also improvised jams.

[ghettoeddo]

same holds for LTE1 amirite?

[temporary]

Afterlife is such a good song

/listens to WDADU properly all the way through for the first time.

I need to get WDADU. Its never in the local shops, so I guess I'll just get it from Amazon.

[bwnstl]

same holds for LTE1 amirite?

From the sounds of Portnoy's commentaries about it, it seemed like LTE1 is a lot less "jam"-y than the second.

[eug008]

I dont really have a favorite Petrucci riff because I love all of them. Its really hard for me to choose.


Im thinking about getting this guitar.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/product/images/page=1/base_pid=513100

Well.... It looks cool

[Kirk's Puppet]

The Killing Hand is like the best DT song no one likes.

[badtaste]

The Killing Hand is like the best DT song no one likes.

Yet another great intro by DT. Can't help but play air guitar/bass/drums to this one.

[red barchetta]

blind faith has just hit me like an epiphone. epiphany. whatever.

oh my god. orgasmarrific.
:thumb:

best DT song EVER

[Happy]

The Killing Hand is like the best DT song no one likes.
WDADU is the album everyone neglects :(

[eug008]

I only liked a few songs from WDADU. Status Seeker, Only A Matter Of Time and YTSE Jam

[Happy]

Status seeker's an odd choice.
It's probably my least favourite on that album along with Light Fuse and Get Away.

Only a Matter of Time is amazing though.

[fuzzyhair]

I just found this today. It's funny, cheesy, and sounds good.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EAlsGklYpB0&search=old%20dream%20theater
Everyone watch this it's so worth it.

[Lord Abortion]

My favourites on WDADU are Afterlife, a fortune in lies, only a matter of time and the killing hand. That's much better live with James though.

[Happy]

:eek:
Wow...

Jp's dancing and both times when Charlie jumped in front of the camera made me :lol:

And Jp's solo was awesome, not as good as the record but the wammy stuff sounded great.

[fuzzyhair]

:eek:
Wow...

Jp's dancing and both times when Charlie jumped in front of the camera made me :lol:

And Jp's solo was awesome, not as good as the record but the wammy stuff sounded great.
I love how the singer jumped in.

[Happy]

You can tell straight off that he didn't fit the band though.

[temporary]

You can tell straight off that he didn't fit the band though.

Makes me so glad they picked up James...

[eug008]

Yup Charlie was a pretty bad singer... But he sounds quite good on Metropolis on WDADReUnite

Heres the vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4ids4rOegI

[ghettoeddo]

Makes me so glad they picked up James...

123123

he's really a better singer than many give him credit for.

[Happy]

I don't think Charlie's a bad singer.
I just think he's not right fro Dream Theater.

[Duman]

Yup Charlie was a pretty bad singer... But he sounds quite good on Metropolis on WDADReUnite

Heres the vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4ids4rOegI

My gosh that's an amazing video ! :eek:

[Firecracker]

WDADU is the album everyone neglects :(
That's grown to be one of my favourites.

[RideTheSpiral]

petrucci first solo rules. the one with the fingerpicking.

[Happy]

petrucci first solo rules. the one with the fingerpicking.
On the Metropolis vid?
Yeah, I'd like to see more solos like that.

[RideTheSpiral]

hes a lot more versitile than people think

[GenuineImitation]

hes a lot more versitile than people think


Quoted for truth.


Everyone says Petrucci just shreds and plays without emotion. The solo in Another Day isnt emotionless shred and that isnt the only song.

[temporary]

Quoted for truth.


Everyone says Petrucci just shreds and plays without emotion. The solo in Another Day isnt emotionless shred and that isnt the only song.

He's got some fantastic interesting solos like Goodnight Kiss, A Change of Seasons, or Scarred.

[GenuineImitation]

He's got some fantastic interesting solos like Goodnight Kiss, A Change of Seasons, or Scarred.


I find all his solos interesting, even the solos on train of thought. People consider it mindless wankery, but it sounds great. I wish my mindless wankery can sound that good.

[Chu]

Yup Charlie was a pretty bad singer... But he sounds quite good on Metropolis on WDADReUnite

Heres the vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4ids4rOegI
I think Charlie sounds fkn good on that.

I might have to look into When Day and Dream Unite?

Edit: And the non-Ruddess keyboardist > Ruddess...

I really likw how he plays on an angle, so metal \m/

[ghettoeddo]

derek sherinainanianinainianiagigan?

i still say that people say he's a mindless wanker because they're just jealous and are afraid to admit that he's amazing. not many people in the world know how to milk the guitar for all it's worth like he does.

i just got tool's aenema because i was curious to see this danny carey guy who's sposed to blow MP outta the water.
i haven't found anything amazing yet...am i looking in the wrong place?

[GenuineImitation]

derek sherinainanianinainianiagigan?

i still say that people say he's a mindless wanker because they're just jealous and are afraid to admit that he's amazing. not many people in the world know how to milk the guitar for all it's worth like he does.

i just got tool's aenema because i was curious to see this danny carey guy who's sposed to blow MP outta the water.
i haven't found anything amazing yet...am i looking in the wrong place?

He is a decent drummer, but I dont think hes good enough to blow portnoy out of the water. Did a tool fanboy tell you this?

[ghettoeddo]

no. it just seems to be the general consensus that carey > portnoy on these forums?

i really dont hear anything overly striking, although he's solid and i like it.
dream theater ftw in every aspect :]

[GenuineImitation]

no. it just seems to be the general consensus that carey > portnoy on these forums?

i really dont hear anything overly striking, although he's solid and i like it.
dream theater ftw in every aspect :]


This is news to me.

[ghettoeddo]

are you sure?
it's really the general impression i get everywhere...

i still stoically (sp) defend portnoy as the better rhythm section

EDIT: 1000 posts wute~ thanks genuine for pointing it out i didnt even notice

[GenuineImitation]

are you sure?
it's really the general impression i get everywhere...

i still stoically (sp) defend portnoy as the better rhythm section

I never heard of this before. Then again I dont pay much attention to posts relating to drums.


HAPPY 1,000 Posts

:chug:

[ghettoeddo]

im learning about to crash ( reprise) and losing time/grand finale right now

[GenuineImitation]

im learning about to crash ( reprise) and losing time/grand finale right now


Sounds cool. Im learnind Another Day and Instrumedly.

[eug008]

Derek Shernian is quite a good keyboardist but

Kevin Moore>Jordan Rudess>Derek Sherinian

Derek Sherinian's solo work is much better than his work with DT IMO

[nowitzki]

no. it just seems to be the general consensus that carey > portnoy on these forums?

i really dont hear anything overly striking, although he's solid and i like it.
dream theater ftw in every aspect :]
Danny Carey is amazing, and although I love MP I would rate Carey higher.
I'm not a drummer myself, but Carey is really creative, and his use of polyrhythms is awesome. Lateralus and Ænema (the songs) are worth checking out.

[Happy]

I dislike tool and I think he's very overrated.

But then again, someone who's a Tool fanboy could post something about MP like this is in the Tool thread :p

[ThunderBass]

i cant split them... the are both very good in different aspects... made voting in the current poll very difficult...

[RideTheSpiral]

carey is an awesome drummer but he looks retarded when he drums

[Happy]

So portnoy triumphs?

[Lord Abortion]

I have ten assorted Tool songs...I can't see what all the fuss about Carey is.

[Happy]

Look at the poll.
Carey's already far off in the lead :angry:

[JamJar]

I have ten assorted Tool songs...I can't see what all the fuss about Carey is.

What songs have you heard? :confused:

/hasn't posted here in ages

[eug008]

Welllll i voted for portnoy

[ghettoeddo]

SUPPORT PORTNOY!!!!

i have several tool CD's now too, but nothing really strikes me as OMGHE'SSOGOOD but i've had that a bit w/ portnoy.
not that i know much abt drumming being a guitarrist, but portnoy really is much more technically capable and has a greater sense of time signatures i think.

[Lord Abortion]

What songs have you heard? :confused:

/hasn't posted here in ages
Eulogy, Pu****, Aenema, sober, 46&2, Ticks and leeches, the grudge, schism, prison sex, Parabola, lateralus, hush, faaip de Oiad.
13 songs, actually.

[temporary]

I have ten assorted Tool songs...I can't see what all the fuss about Carey is.

If you don't have it, download Ticks and Leechs ASAP. Even though you don't like Tool, I don't see how you can deny how great that intro is.

As for the final poll, I cast my vote for Neil. I'm really pissed that him, Bozzio, Moon, or Baker aren't winning.

Edit: Nevermind, you do have Ticks and Leechs.

[nowitzki]

SUPPORT PORTNOY!!!!

i have several tool CD's now too, but nothing really strikes me as OMGHE'SSOGOOD but i've had that a bit w/ portnoy.
not that i know much abt drumming being a guitarrist, but portnoy really is much more technically capable and has a greater sense of time signatures i think.
I disagree, to me Carey seems like a more talented drummer, and his rhythms are much more intricate. MP is a master of complex time signatures, but so is Carey.

[Lord Abortion]

I like Tool, Maynard just spoils them for me totally.

The man really cannot sing. Maybe he would if he sang up more, he just mumbles and shouts ocasionally.

[heavy metal kid]

hey guys, i don't know if this is old, but here's the Highway Star cover.
http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=TmFvF8TQTcM&eurl=http%3A//ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/dream_theater_cover_deep_purple_video_online.html&iurl=http%3A//sjl-static4.sjl.youtube.com/vi/TmFvF8TQTcM/2.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskLdVfBFOaHcXFw5JPT4FKZz

[ghettoeddo]

yea it's beeen around.

i dont really like maynard mcuh either. he's got a good voice when he actually is singing, but it's usually mumbling or just yelling.

i haven't heard anything by tool which showcases carey's portnoy-beating-skills.
recommendations besides the ones listed above?

[nowitzki]

^A couple examples off the top of my head of some impressive playing would be the end of The Grudge and the end of Schism.

[ghettoeddo]

ok ill check it out.

portnoy's got some realyl complex rhythms and licks, but...ok

EDIT: yea he's solid. very solid. and im not gonna lie, but i really like his drumming. on the other hand, i still think portnoy's much better. maybe carey just doesn't show what he's got with tool

[nowitzki]

At least we can agree that they are both amazing drummers :thumb:

[Atica]

Carey is a great drummer, as well as Portnoy. It's difficult to tell who is better, but I kind of prefer Portnoy.

[Inkstar]

I've heard some Tool and still think Portnoy > Carey. I don't see how Portnoy 'lacks creativity'.

[RideTheSpiral]

portnoy is not technically all that amazing but he writes really creative stuff and one of the best live drummers ive ever seen

[Inkstar]

Exactly. He pushes himself to the limits physically and mentally. He didn't get violentely ill after the Roseland show because he was constantely doing insanely fast double bass, or because he was thrashing the kit...

...it was because he drank too many Red Bulls.

:P

Nah, seriously, it was because he's so creative in his music that even though the parts arn't 'fast', 'thrashy' or double bass...y, he still uses all 4 limbs to quite a large rate due to the size of his kit. The only reason his kits are so large is because he doesn't want to limit himself. He wants as many options open to himself as possible, rather than adding in drum-dubbing.

The parts he writes are just awesome - especially his older stuff. Very creative.

[Chu]

portnoy is not technically all that amazing but he writes really creative stuff and one of the best live drummers ive ever seen
That's completely opposite to what most people argue about him though :x

Mike Portnoy - Dream Theater, Liquid Tension Experiment, O.S.I. - Good talent, lack of creativity hurts him.
Ok, he doesn't say anything about technicality, but I swear in an older round (Maybe the first round Portnoy appeared in), something about his technicality and lack-of-creation.

I agree with you though, I find Portnoy extremely creative, he just knows when to use what, no matter how subtle it is, it just works.

[eug008]

Portnoy's one of the most creative drummers i know IMO