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luciferchrist
11-04-2004, 07:16 AM
Okay, so for the past month I have been researching singing and voice. I play piano, guitar, and have a pretty thorough understanding of music theory. My goal is to become a very well rounded musician. Upon introspection I realized that the ability to sing, well, is a very important aspect of musicianship, especially if you desire to be a session musician like myself. I realized that I sit in my room, whenever I am home, and just make music, but I never actually sing, reason being, I never developed a singing voice.

I have a feeling there are plenty other musicians out there like me, who wish they could sing well, but decide to just play their instrument and not work their own natural instrument. The most common reason seems to be, "I don't have any natural talent to be a singer, it is something you are born with."

I personally think this attitude is rather ridiculus (perhaps because of my objectivity), but the way I see it is that you don't inately know how to play any instrument, and that is exactly what the voice is, an instrument, so why pretend like it is not? With a practice routine aimed on improvement through deliberate practice, there is no reason we can't go from bad singers to great singers.

So I have created this thread primarily on selfish reasons, although my purposes have a latent function, which may benefit many other people. Starting this weekend I am going to be opening up a soundclick page. I am going to post weekely audio sample of several aspects of my practice routine, such as 1 song I will be working on, scales, glisses, falsetto, chest to falsetto transisitions etc. The purpose of the soundclick page will be so we can all see how one's singing will actually improve with a structured practice routine.

I will use this thread to keep track of what I have been doing for practice, it will operate like a workout journal.

This should be interesting, as we can all witness how someone's singing voice may improve from actively, and objectively training it.

I will start tonight by finding my range for all the vowells. I am getting my digital recorder off layaway today, so I should have everything set up by this weekend.

Implements Of Destruction
11-04-2004, 08:24 AM
sounds cool and i think it would help. I personally am a really bad singer and i never thought practise would really make me good so it will be interesting to see how other people improve may even get me to start practising singing too if it goes well.

luciferchrist
11-04-2004, 08:52 AM
sounds cool and i think it would help. I personally am a really bad singer and i never thought practise would really make me good so it will be interesting to see how other people improve may even get me to start practising singing too if it goes well.

cool bro, I hope we both learn alot then :thumb:

I still need to learn more about how the voice actually works. I am going to spend a couple hours at my college library researching this weekend. I think I might actually just do an extra credit research project on the biomechanics of voice.

EcolliJK
11-04-2004, 12:24 PM
woke up did some clesandro's not to high not to low just to warm up.
got back from school did some more
guitarist send me our new song riffs
made a text
stretch a little
did the "moving the breath from diaphgram to longs" excercise
sang a little
did nothing...
went to mx to tell you guys
read the thread again
realised I wasn't supposed to give my singing journal
notes to self to check thread now and then to see/hear your progres

luciferchrist
11-04-2004, 12:26 PM
woke up did some clesandro's not to high not to low just to warm up.
got back from school did some more
guitarist send me our new song riffs
made a text
stretch a little
did the "moving the breath from diaphgram to longs" excercise
sang a little
did nothing...
went to mx to tell you guys
read the thread again
realised I wasn't supposed to give my singing journal
notes to self to check thread now and then to see/hear your progres


I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

:confused:

StormX
11-04-2004, 12:45 PM
This looks to be a good thread. I'm in the same situation you are, except I don't really know anything about voice or singing. But I want to learn.

Merkaba
11-04-2004, 11:42 PM
cool. Sounds like a good rather original idea.

but i must reiterate that you should be able to get all vowels at your highest pitch. it could be a throat or technique thing. So work on that too and post it...unless you get it down before you actually need to work on it.
kewl :thumb:

luciferchrist
11-05-2004, 07:03 AM
cool. Sounds like a good rather original idea.

but i must reiterate that you should be able to get all vowels at your highest pitch. it could be a throat or technique thing. So work on that too and post it...unless you get it down before you actually need to work on it.
kewl :thumb:

definetely bro

I should have recordings up tonight, or tommorow. I just copped a Roland VS1860 24 bit 16 track digital recorder. Last night I got it functional, had my band come over, and recorded some ****. Tonight I will just put up all the vowells, and go as high as I can go.

I am going to do them simultaneously with my keyboard, and that should work pretty well.

I am also going to put up a song that fits my range nicely, which will either be Outside by Staind, or Inaudible Melodies by Jack Johnson.

luciferchrist
11-05-2004, 07:33 AM
November 4 2004

After my band left tonight I decided to work on some vocals. Immediately my confidence was shattered when I heard how crappy I sounded on a high qaulity recording device. I noticed that when I sing, sometimes my larynx comes up about an inch or more, depending upon what syllable-constanant I am hitting. Fortunetely I came across exercises to fix it.

When you sing, your larynx is allowed to move 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch. Anything else will block off some of your air flow. When you sing you want to have a consistent amount of air available, so this is something that obviously needs to be corrected.

How can we fix it? I came across an exercise where you place your finger on your adams apple, it it rises more then said amount, do the following exercises. Press your adams apple down a little bit so your larynx can't move up and down, it will want to, but don't let it. When you start talking, you should hear a low voice, that sounds similiar to yogi the bear. Now, find something to read, whether it's a book, newspaper, homework (I am doing this reading my biology book), and read out loud in the low larynx voice.

Supposively the larynx has a strong sensory memory, so this should be corrected relatively soon, we will see. I did this for 2 minutes, and for 5 sets.

I also started doing diaphramic breathing exercises for 20 minutes. I realized that when I go up the scales, I use to much physical effort and nothing comes out. The reason is most likely improper breath control, and that I am blasting large, unneccasary amounts of air when going up the scale. Naturally we would think that you need to put in more effort when going up, this is wrong. You should have the same amount of power going up and down the scales, and a little less when you get higher (as I am finding out.) I am not going to post these exercises, because they are all over the internet. Just run a google and all kinds of **** will come up.

That was all I was able to really get at last night, but tonight I should be able to get at least 1 hour in.

luciferchrist
11-05-2004, 10:37 AM
November 5

Just spent an hour doing a delivery for my job. I used that time to practice singing, of course.

I was singing Jack Johnson's Inaudible Melodies, and Times Like These well holding my larynx down. I am noticing that in my trouble spots my larynx is usually rising about an inch up. So I went through the songs several times just holding my larynx down and focusing on diaphramic breathing.

breath control seems to be something I really need to work on. I am quitting smoking weed untill my vaporizer comes in the mail (so I can protect my vocal chords.) I think alot of my breathing problems come from lifting wieghts, which can teach you to strain to get movement out of your body. This of course is counterproductive to singing. I am going to begin focusing on proper breathing in the gym, as well as at home.

I am also a big fan of meditation, so I need to start doing meditation focusing on diaphramic breathing.


(it's only 12:30 pm where I am, so I will be updating this when I get home)

Merkaba
11-05-2004, 12:31 PM
Cool you sound like me. I workout alot and i meditate everyday. A good thing is to do mantras. If youre in a deep meditation you can really get concentratin on what youre doing and youre way more relaxed than any other time, so your throat is even more open and you can get a better feel of what youre doing and its easier to activate only the cords. try different pitches, and try to get them to sound like a buddhist. In a small room, its awesome because you can hear the overtones and feel the harmonics actually vibrate your body. mmmmmm

The larynx is gonna rise a bit, you just dont want it to be a squeeze. And i dont know how youre holding it down, but if youre trying to do it with your hand then dont. And be sure not to be tensing in an effort to hold it down cause that will affect you to. Like i said its gonna rise a bit, but it shouldnt rise for different vowels, but slightly for pitch. You really want to be where you know youre not activating the muscles...rather than having your mind on them. But that will take time. I think the blank face isolations are really good for finding how not to activate the larynx muscles. If you put your finger on the apple and swallow slowly you can help get in touch with the feeling of the muscles making it rise, so you can be sure not to recreate that contraction. And if you do it while fake yawning slowly, you can get in touch with the contractions that make it lower and open.
:thumb:

luciferchrist
11-05-2004, 12:47 PM
Cool you sound like me. I workout alot and i meditate everyday. A good thing is to do mantras. If youre in a deep meditation you can really get concentratin on what youre doing and youre more relaxed so your throat is even more open and you can get a better feel of what youre doing.

The larynx is gonna rise a bit, you just dont want it to be a squeeze. And i dont know how youre holding it down, but if youre trying to do it with your hand then dont. And be sure not to be tensing in an effort to hold it down cause that will affect you to. Like i said its gonna rise a bit, but it shouldnt rise for different vowels, but slightly for pitch. You really want to be where you know youre not activating the muscles...rather than having your mind on them. But that will take time. I think the blank face isolations are really good for finding how not to activate the larynx muscles. If you put your finger on the apple and swallow slowly you can help get in touch with the feeling of the muscles making it rise, so you can be sure not to recreate that contraction. And if you do it while fake yawning slowly, you can get in touch with the contractions that make it lower and open.
:thumb:

I definetely plan on incorporating mantras in my meditation, I just haven't had time to research an effective strategy involving them yet. I don't like meditating on a blank mind, I like instead to concentrate on a single thing, and use that concetration to get the alpha waves flowing, thus channeling into my creative outlets. Riding the spiral, so to speak. I am pretty sure mantra work the same way, that is you have 100% concentration focused on the sounds you are producing. I definetely will start doing these asap...

I am doing fake yawns right now, **** that works good, I see exactly what you are talking about!

I am not really pressing my larynx down. I am more so, using my finger to guide myself. When I come across a specific phrase that is making my larynx rise I try to see why it is happening, and stop it by finding what biomechanical activity is making it happen. I am finding that slightly pointing my chin down seems to stop the larynx from rising. I am finding that the more relaxed I am in these difficult phrases, the more control I have over my larynx.

Since you are into working out and meditation as well, I can imagine your sense of visualisation is quite developed, as is my own. I find this skill is useful in so many domains. Wieghtlifting is very helpful to develop these skills. When you are about to hit a personal record doing deadlifts, you gotta dig deep in yourself and visualize the lift being made - from how your form will be, how your body will be centered, etc - before you even lift the wieght. This is one of the most useful philosophies I have learned in lifting, that is, lift the wieght before you actually lift the wieght (if you get what I mean). Merkaba-1 probably knows what I am talking about here, but every one else could really benefit from learning how to visualize - regardless of how you want to use that skill...

I am starting your isolation exercises tonight Merkaba-1, ill tell you how it goes!

luciferchrist
11-05-2004, 12:58 PM
hey merk

what do you think about using meditation as the first part of your warm up before singing?

I am thinking I should start doing these mantras, diaphramic breathing, and other things associated with singing as part of my warm up.

Perhaps as I enter the meditative state I could concentrate on the singing I am about to do by visualizing how my body operates well singing. Maybe even using mantras well changing pitch and trying to visualize the movement from the inhale, to my stomach exanding, to my diaphram contracting, to the air rushing at the precise speed through my vocal chords, to the sounds resonating through my body.

Also are you familiar with Sufism?

awol
11-07-2004, 07:25 AM
are you wanting to achieve this so if u leave a band you could have a solo career i.e jimi hendrix.I am in pretty much the same situation.

Merkaba
11-07-2004, 12:56 PM
I say the more the merrier if you have the time.

I'm not terribly familiar with sufism, other than that it is regarded as the more mystical area of islam. Deals more with the "inner" mind and experiences. ....

luciferchrist
11-08-2004, 07:00 AM
are you wanting to achieve this so if u leave a band you could have a solo career i.e jimi hendrix.I am in pretty much the same situation.

I don't really care about a career in music, although it would be welcome.

I would just like to sing, because it feels good and it improves my musicianship ;)

luciferchrist
11-08-2004, 07:03 AM
I say the more the merrier if you have the time.

I'm not terribly familiar with sufism, other than that it is regarded as the more mystical area of islam. Deals more with the "inner" mind and experiences. ....

Sufism focuses primarily on the importance of music, as they see the harmony of the universe being musical, in a vibrational sense. They use music as a main part of their meditation, primarily singing and acoustic instruments. I think you would enjoy them. I am basically an Objectivist, and Sufism is the only for of mysticism that really draws my attention. They also believe that all religions are right, and they don't even consider Sufism a religion...

luciferchrist
11-08-2004, 07:17 AM
November 8

I spent about 5 hours this weekend practicing singing. My vocal chord area is actually feeling a little sore this morning, which tells me I should chill tonight. I guess I'll just work on Moonlight Sonata on guitar tonight, and maybe do some piano/sight reading/ear training work.

I started learning solfege as a study tool at my guitar lesson on Saturday. This seems to be an exellent device for training my voice, as well as my abilities as a musician as a whole.

I have been doing alot of diaphramic breathing work, and I also have been using Merkaba's isolation exercises, which led to a break through last night.

Last night I was hitting 3 octaves with my voice! I found I can start with the open E string on my guitar, and sing up a whole 3 octaves. This is wonderfull considering I was having trouble with 1 octave a week ago.

I have found that very little air is needed to sing, and that I was pushing to hard, and straining as I went up in pitch. I meditated for 30 minutes, and focused on diamphramic breathing. I began doing OHMs so I could feel it resonating in my chest area. I tried shifting the pitch using glisses, and as I did this I tried to visualize, and feel the resonance moving from my chest, to my upper chest/ sinus area, to my sinus area as I hit the highest notes.

I then picked up my guitar and did the same thing with my breath, but used Solfege (do ri mi fa etc) and I was able to get three octaves.

My most inconsistent area is my middle voice area. I can't always hit towards the end of the second octave good, but hopefully I can fix this by the end of this week.

:chug:

kriswrite
11-09-2004, 07:51 AM
You may not wanna hear this, but smoking (even smoking weed) is so very bad for your voice. It swells your vocal folds (making singing more difficult, and making the possibilites of nodes more likely), and makes it more difficult for you to breathe properly.

Kristina
www.geocities.com/kristinasvocalstudio

luciferchrist
11-09-2004, 01:29 PM
You may not wanna hear this, but smoking (even smoking weed) is so very bad for your voice. It swells your vocal folds (making singing more difficult, and making the possibilites of nodes more likely), and makes it more difficult for you to breathe properly.

Kristina
www.geocities.com/kristinasvocalstudio


what if I use a vaporizer?

They allow straight THC to enter you body without the smoke. THC is not harmful, smoke is...

Merkaba
11-12-2004, 02:32 AM
Cool. yea I didnt know sufism was that related to music. I have a very very very smart friend that was trying to get funding to build a machine that would travel based on musical principals. The merkaba shape itself is related to music. Well, all the platonic solids are...everything is. Everything is energy so, yea. Keep up the good work. Good to see you making progress.

As far as a vaporizer, im sure its better than smoking, especially weed smoke because its unfiltered , thus hotter and more scorching resin.
The thing is , i dont know if we know about what thc does when applied directly to the cords, which is what you will be doing still. Hell if youre not worried about singing being your career then i say do what you want.

Oh and i love Moonlight. I can play the slow piece on piano. Its my favorite. if you get it down on guitar be sure to record it for me. I'll love that. :thumb:

luciferchrist
11-12-2004, 08:11 AM
Cool. yea I didnt know sufism was that related to music. I have a very very very smart friend that was trying to get funding to build a machine that would travel based on musical principals. The merkaba shape itself is related to music. Well, all the platonic solids are...everything is. Everything is energy so, yea. Keep up the good work. Good to see you making progress.

As far as a vaporizer, im sure its better than smoking, especially weed smoke because its unfiltered , thus hotter and more scorching resin.
The thing is , i dont know if we know about what thc does when applied directly to the cords, which is what you will be doing still. Hell if youre not worried about singing being your career then i say do what you want.

Oh and i love Moonlight. I can play the slow piece on piano. Its my favorite. if you get it down on guitar be sure to record it for me. I'll love that. :thumb:

Ill definetely record that track when I get it down, but I expect that will take a long time...

I am cutting back on my weed smoking, singing is actually helping me with that. I work and go to school all day, when I get home I just want to chill out and go to my own little world in my room. I shouldn't be using weed as a crutch, but I find myself brutally anxious when I get home, and even intense meditation can't seem to get my mind off all the other things I have going on.

I am reading up on Merkaba right now, I had never heard of this before. It is rather fascinating. I would love to hear more about your friends idea...

luciferchrist
11-12-2004, 08:16 AM
Sorry I haven't been updating that much

I will be putting up vocal samples soon. I have everything recorded on my recorder's hard drive, but I cannot burn CD's yet. This Wednesday when I get paid, however, I am going to get the rest of the **** I need to get some audio. I wish I could have got some audio up immediately though, as I already noticed such a major improvement in my singing.

One question I have...

I can stay on key now pretty much in all the songs I sing, however, I am sounding rather monotonous. I think now since I have found the comfort spots in my singing, I am afraid to hit different notes besides the root of the chords being played on the guitar.

Should I just start trying to hit the 3rd, and 5th of the chords? or maybe just loop a progression and try messing around?

I am, however, not having a problem with monotony when I am ad libbing to my own songs over progressions I come up with. When I just freestyle over my guitar playing I can consciously try to hit different notes, but when I am doing covers, I notice my voice doesn't seem to travel from the root notes much... :confused:

Merkaba
11-12-2004, 12:11 PM
Sorry I haven't been updating that much

I will be putting up vocal samples soon. I have everything recorded on my recorder's hard drive, but I cannot burn CD's yet. This Wednesday when I get paid, however, I am going to get the rest of the **** I need to get some audio. I wish I could have got some audio up immediately though, as I already noticed such a major improvement in my singing.

One question I have...

I can stay on key now pretty much in all the songs I sing, however, I am sounding rather monotonous. I think now since I have found the comfort spots in my singing, I am afraid to hit different notes besides the root of the chords being played on the guitar.

Should I just start trying to hit the 3rd, and 5th of the chords? or maybe just loop a progression and try messing around?

I am, however, not having a problem with monotony when I am ad libbing to my own songs over progressions I come up with. When I just freestyle over my guitar playing I can consciously try to hit different notes, but when I am doing covers, I notice my voice doesn't seem to travel from the root notes much... :confused:
Yea, i used to have the same problems. It just takes practice. You can learn alot by practicing scales over a root note. just play a note then do a solfege up and down and try to stay in key with the root. if you need to, play the third and fifth when you come to it. This is something i actually need to do more of. I'm kinda getting natural at ad libbing but I still hit an occasional bad note if i keep running it. The thing is to not think. as cliche as that sounds. Its the truth. its pretty hard to sing out of key actually. your brain doesnt like it much. but we all know we can overrided that circuit. The more you do it the more you find your skill and its almost muscle memory. If youre up or low in your range though its a little harder of course. But the more you visit your whole range the more you know the pressures and pulls of all of your notes. So its more automatic.

luciferchrist
11-12-2004, 12:47 PM
Yea, i used to have the same problems. It just takes practice. You can learn alot by practicing scales over a root note. just play a note then do a solfege up and down and try to stay in key with the root. if you need to, play the third and fifth when you come to it. This is something i actually need to do more of. I'm kinda getting natural at ad libbing but I still hit an occasional bad note if i keep running it. The thing is to not think. as cliche as that sounds. Its the truth. its pretty hard to sing out of key actually. your brain doesnt like it much. but we all know we can overrided that circuit. The more you do it the more you find your skill and its almost muscle memory. If youre up or low in your range though its a little harder of course. But the more you visit your whole range the more you know the pressures and pulls of all of your notes. So its more automatic.

awesome post bro

that helps alot, as usual :thumb:

I am going to spend tonight working on solfege over intervals, scales, and "illustrating chords," like playing a root and then hitting the scales, or intervals over.

I definetely see how this is muscle memory that needs to be created though...

gallagher672003
11-14-2004, 05:38 PM
I found this site incredibly helpful.
http://www.vocalist.org.uk/index.html

Rats
11-14-2004, 06:23 PM
wow, that site kicks ***
thanks! +rep for you!