The Black Mage Village (Final Fantasy)

[MAthiAS]

I get the impression DoC will have merely average gameplay, but I'm anxious to get the story so I'll definitely buy it.

[Lionheart1827]

I still remember than some magazine said it was probable. I won't really be surprised either way, I'd love it if they remade VII. Its probably the FF that would most benefit from the new technology. It had terrible graphics, and the translation needs to be redone. VI would be so different I doubt many would like it, and VIII actually had very nice graphics so it'd be pretty pointless.

I agree. A lot of the older FF's require you to use your own imagination of what the game would look like realistic since everything was sprites and low resolution graphics.

However, I was really worried that Metroid Prime was gonna be messed up when it was released on GC, but it was one of the best 2D->3D conversions ever made, and not only did they make it to the 3D, they changed it to first person.:thumb:

I'd also like to see 7 or 8 redone.:thumb:

[MAthiAS]

I don't see VIII getting remade anyway...

[Liberi Fatali]

Not much point, the FMV's are already spectacular.

If one Final Fantasy got made into a movie, it'd be VIII for me. It was the most movie like Final Fantasy. And by movie, I don't mean like they've done with VII, I mean a movie that follows the plot and storyline of the game.

[MBS]

Not much point, the FMV's are already spectacular.

If one Final Fantasy got made into a movie, it'd be VIII for me. It was the most movie like Final Fantasy. And by movie, I don't mean like they've done with VII, I mean a movie that follows the plot and storyline of the game.

I was SO freakin' excited when Spirits Within was announced, but then realized that it had none of the FF stuff that I'm used to in it. Where were the chocobos, the moogles? Gone. All gone. :(

[MAthiAS]

Not much point, the FMV's are already spectacular.

If one Final Fantasy got made into a movie, it'd be VIII for me. It was the most movie like Final Fantasy. And by movie, I don't mean like they've done with VII, I mean a movie that follows the plot and storyline of the game.
Agreed, VIII does play out very much like a movie.

Spirits Within was a joke... though it did raise the bar for CGI I suppose.

Btw, anyone know where FlyingPaul and ShadowsFallen have gone?

[kamiccollo]

I reckon X-2 would work as a movie or should I say actually work better as a movie.

[Happy]

Agreed, VIII does play out very much like a movie.

Spirits Within was a joke... though it did raise the bar for CGI I suppose.

Btw, anyone know where FlyingPaul and ShadowsFallen have gone?
SF posts in R&M now.

I think any FF would work as a movie.

[2muchket!]

'parently the japanese gmae mag Famitsu (well respected and reliable trust me) have give XII a rare 40/40 which only gmaes like FFVII and LoZ : OoT have gotten so all bodes well when it reaches our shores in the winter then ??

[MAthiAS]

'parently the japanese gmae mag Famitsu (well respected and reliable trust me) have give XII a rare 40/40 which only gmaes like FFVII and LoZ : OoT have gotten so all bodes well when it reaches our shores in the winter then ??
Put down the joint when attempting English.

Okay I actually understand that post now... uhh... I'm still skeptical about XII because like someone said, my tastes aren't exactly the same as some magazine writers and I didn't like half the other perfect scores. I've got mixed feelings about XII really.

Most/all FFs would work as movies, but FFVIII feels most like a movie when you play it. X-2 would be a waste of time trying to improve though.

[Liberi Fatali]

Here is an article about the 40/40 score.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasy12/news.html?sid=6145598

Sounds goooooood.

[3rdplanet]

Have they given a plausable release date for FFXII in the UK yet?

http://play.com/play247.asp?pa=srmr&page=title&r=PS2&title=183636

http://www.sendit.com/game/item/6000000000966

And Amazon aren't even listing it.

[MAthiAS]

Here is an article about the 40/40 score.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasy12/news.html?sid=6145598

Sounds goooooood.
Unfortunately the article doesn't say anything about the reasoning behind the score...

[spitfirejunky]

They gave Wind Waker the same score, and I thought that was mediocre, mostly because of its kid-esque make-up and the unappealing plot.

Judging by the other games in league with it, it seems promising on the most part.

[red barchetta]

im not saying FFXII will definately be bad or anything, but that magazine gave FFX 39/40 (i know loads liked it, but i didnt) and Nintendogs 40/40. i dont trust their scores.

[Lionheart1827]

They gave Wind Waker the same score, and I thought that was mediocre, mostly because of its kid-esque make-up and the unappealing plot.

Judging by the other games in league with it, it seems promising on the most part.

I always thought that WW had the best plot of any zelda game. The other zelda games was basically save the princess from ganon. WW actually had a story that developed. I thought it was pretty cool how Hyrule was completely destroyed and covered by a deep ocean, and when the hero of time plunged the sword, it froze hyrule in time.

WW isnt as bad as people make it out to be. Believe it or not, WW was what miyamoto wanted zelda to look like from the start but they didnt have the technology to make it look that way in a video game up until WW.

[kamiccollo]

im not saying FFXII will definately be bad or anything, but that magazine gave FFX 39/40 (i know loads liked it, but i didnt) and Nintendogs 40/40. i dont trust their scores.


I dont see how Nintendogs even got 40/40 considering the score is made up from adding up 4 different peoples rating out of 10.

WW I can understand more, even thuogh I didnt like it much, but I dont think it in anyway deserves perfect ratings from four (supposedly unbiased) reviewers.

[Happy]

im not saying FFXII will definately be bad or anything, but that magazine gave FFX 39/40 (i know loads liked it, but i didnt) and Nintendogs 40/40. i dont trust their scores.
Maybe they only get to play the game for like an hour?

[Echleon]

I have just installed an SNES Emulator on my PSP, complete with FF IV, V and VI.

Finaly, a good use of my PSP :)

[Lord Abortion]

I think us lot is enough.
True, we'd all ejaculate spontaniously if VII was remade.

[Happy]

I can't, it's lent.

[Liberi Fatali]

I have just installed an SNES Emulator on my PSP, complete with FF IV, V and VI.

Finaly, a good use of my PSP :) You can do that? :eek:

Now I want a PSP. :(

[Happy]

You can do that? :eek:

PSPs connect to the internet so it's possible.

[Jim]

That'd be freakin' coolies. Portable FF. And none of this Gameboy garb.

/hopes no-one here is part of the Nintendo faithful

[Happy]

Nintendo would be nothing to me if it weren't for Pokémon.

[Jim]

You know that's true for me, too. Pokemon was the only game I played faithfully on my Gameboy. That and Donkey Kong 2. Man that was good. There was one DK coin I couldn't get though! 99%! Bah!

[PAJJ]

I have just installed an SNES Emulator on my PSP, complete with FF IV, V and VI.

Finaly, a good use of my PSP :)

I downloaded the rom for vi, and am paying it on my laptop (saves me looking for my snes), the game is great, but it would be cool on a psp, playing it on the bus and all that, but hey i aint buying one anytime soon.

I've gotten to the bit where you have to catch fish for Cid to keep him alive, but stupid me Cels is my only character and i didn't really use her, i always do that.

[crag]

I'll need to do this with my brother's PSP, to bad he doesn't have internet on it yet.

[Chrysostom]

http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/693/693672/vids_1.html

BAH! :mad:

Be clearer next time. I though you mean the actual VII, not DoC! :mad:

You got my hopes up for nothing.

[kamiccollo]

Be clearer next time. I though you mean the actual VII, not DoC! :mad:
You got my hopes up for nothing.
Aint it always the case!



So are both DoC and XII going to be released this summer/autumn in the UK, or have I got my wires crossed somewhere along the way?

[Chrysostom]

So are both DoC and XII going to be released this summer/autumn in the UK, or have I got my wires crossed somewhere along the way?

That's how I understand it.

[Happy]

I swear DOC was meant to be out already.

[spitfirejunky]

BAH! :mad:

Be clearer next time. I though you mean the actual VII, not DoC! :mad:

You got my hopes up for nothing.

"Ah, my apologies."

/seymour'd

[kamiccollo]

That's how I understand it.

Cool, 2 FF's at once, the choices! Which one do I get first!?!

I swear DOC was meant to be out already.

I think its been released in Japan already.

[FlyingPaul_83]

Agreed, VIII does play out very much like a movie.

Spirits Within was a joke... though it did raise the bar for CGI I suppose.

Btw, anyone know where FlyingPaul and ShadowsFallen have gone?

heh, sup man?

I havent really been on much because I'm not addicted to MX like cocain anymore. :(

I'll get on every couple of days and read some threads, maybe post in one, then get off. I've been doing a lot of lurking, but not much posting.

but err, I think FF VII should be remade because it would make the game that much better. Even just making the graphics better would make the game more enjoyable. Plus it would be cool to see how nice the world map looked with PS2(maybe even PS3) graphics.

[National chaos sam]

I have just installed an SNES Emulator on my PSP, complete with FF IV, V and VI.

Finaly, a good use of my PSP :)

Thats Cool man, I used a flash cartridge on my GBA SP with a NES Emulator to play 1,2 and 3.

I really need to get a PSP, anyone here played ff3 yet, looks pretty beef to me.

[Lord Abortion]

"Ah, my apologies."

/seymour'd
:smoke:

I love his voice when he says that.

[Happy]

I hated Seymour's voice.

[crag]

I hated his hair.

[Benzum]

Does anyone know where I can get any Final Fantasy ROM's?

Any help would be appreciated, I've spent enough time looking myself, someone must have better sources than me....

This is for any PSX emulator, btw.

[Happy]

I hated his hair.
I quite liked it.

[kamiccollo]

I dont even remember his hair. But I do remember that voice.....

[MAthiAS]

heh, sup man?

I havent really been on much because I'm not addicted to MX like cocain anymore. :(

I'll get on every couple of days and read some threads, maybe post in one, then get off. I've been doing a lot of lurking, but not much posting.

I'll do the same. This is really my only regular thread anymore. I'll lurk in Politics, Alt/Indie, Punk, and Guitar some too... really stopped in R&M.

Sephiroth's hair > Seymour's hair

[Timm]

/just preordered FFXII

:cool:

[spitfirejunky]

Impossible!?

[Timm]

:confused:

[Lionheart1827]

Speaking of FFXII, I'm not sure if you guys saw, but there is some new gameplay videos of the finished japanese version on IGN.

It actually looks pretty good.:thumb:

[kamiccollo]

Sephiroth's hair > Seymour's hair

True, haha, I googled seymours hair and it really looks ridiculous!

/just preordered FFXII


Its available to preorder already??

[National chaos sam]

I found a downloadable version of ff7 DOC on Bittorrent!
Thats crazy!

[Chrysostom]

Speaking of FFXII, I'm not sure if you guys saw, but there is some new gameplay videos of the finished japanese version on IGN.

It actually looks pretty good.:thumb:

It's looking really good.

/drools.

[Timm]

True, haha, I googled seymours hair and it really looks ridiculous!



Its available to preorder already??
well I just preordered it on amazon so...:)

[crag]

well I just preordered it on amazon so...:)
ooh, considers doing the same.

[Benzum]

http://musicianforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11730597&postcount=13042

kthanks

[crag]

Try here (http://www.emuparadise.org/roms/):)

[MAthiAS]

It does look pretty nice. The music is very Tactics like, a sign of the story?

[Chrysostom]

It does look pretty nice. The music is very Tactics like, a sign of the story?

Well, I seriously doubt the story is at all related to Tactics, although the world is called Ivalice.

[MAthiAS]

:upset:

[Chrysostom]

:upset:

Square don't do related FFs. Except FFX-2. You and I both know that.

[numetaljordan]

its set in the world of tactics but i doubt besides it being in the same world there will be no similarities

[crag]

Wait, so is the world the same one as tactics or just the same name?

[Chrysostom]

Wait, so is the world the same one as tactics or just the same name?

The same name, nothing more. The story, characters, monsters, fighting system, levelling up system and even the world itself are entirely unrelated.

[crag]

The same name, nothing more. The story, characters, monsters, fighting system, levelling up system and even the world itself are entirely unrelated.
Thank god for that, i was beginning to panic.

[Chrysostom]

Thank god for that, i was beginning to panic.

Yes. I too would have done that.

[holy_roller99]

Has anyone seen this and if you have is it any good. i am thinking of picking this one up one day.

[MAthiAS]

So what did the guys at Square forget they used the name Ivalice in Tactics? I can't see them using the name by stupid coincidence or for no reason other than to **** with us.

[Chrysostom]

So what did the guys at Square forget they used the name Ivalice in Tactics? I can't see them using the name by stupid coincidence or for no reason other than to **** with us.

I don't see how use of the name Ivalice has to be seen in a different vein to constant use of the word 'Gil' for currency, or the use of airships in all games. Trust me, it has nothing to do with Tactics.

[MAthiAS]

Pretty obviously different, because Ivalice was unique to Tactics.

[Lionheart1827]

Yeah but how many times has a location been repeated in an FF?

There hasn't been another Narshe, or Midgar.

There's gotta be some connection, if any, maybe its set in a different time period?

Maybe there will be some cameos.:thumb:

Now I'm babblin.

[kamiccollo]

Ivalice seems to me to be a bit of a weak name really. But thats just me.

[MAthiAS]

Did worlds even have names in other FFs?

[Chrysostom]

Did worlds even have names in other FFs?

Only IX, but that was due to the storyline.

I have just learnt that one of the races in XII first appeared in tactics. So maybe it'll be a series of smallscale links, rather than a wholesale "this is the Ivalice of Tactics" type thing.

[kamiccollo]

They were typically called Gaia, at least from VII onwards.

Only IX, but that was due to the storyline.

I have just learnt that one of the races in XII first appeared in tactics. So maybe it'll be a series of smallscale links, rather than a wholesale "this is the Ivalice of Tactics" type thing.

So a bit like WindWaker? sounds interesting.

[Chrysostom]

VII world name = ?
VIII world name = ?
IX world name = Gaia
X world name = Spira

[kamiccollo]

VII world name = ?
VIII world name = ?
IX world name = Gaia
X world name = Spira


VII was definatly called Gaia and I remember Gaia being menioned in X.
Not sure about VIII now you mention it.

[Chrysostom]

VII was definatly called Gaia and I remember Gaia being menioned in X.
Not sure about VIII now you mention it.

Gaia was mentioned in VII? When?

[kamiccollo]

The whole life force thing. I remember because I asked a friend of mine about it at the time.
He just shrugged.

[Chrysostom]

The whole life force thing. I remember because I asked a friend of mine about it at the time.
He just shrugged.

Heh. Fair enough.

[kamiccollo]

I think Gaia's just generally used as a default name, I wouldnt be surprised if its used in XII!

[Chrysostom]

I think Gaia's just generally used as a default name, I wouldnt be surprised if its used in XII!

But it can't be. The world is called Ivalice. That's what the controversy of the last few posts has been about.

[FlyingPaul_83]

Yeah but how many times has a location been repeated in an FF?

There hasn't been another Narshe, or Midgar.

There's gotta be some connection, if any, maybe its set in a different time period?

Maybe there will be some cameos.:thumb:

Now I'm babblin.

exactly :thumb:

[kamiccollo]

But it can't be. The world is called Ivalice. That's what the controversy of the last few posts has been about.

I think Gaia's the name for mother earth. So its like us calling the Earth 'the world' sort of thing, a general fallback name.


About the repeated locations, I could swear theres a few but I cant put my finger on what they might be...its like a niggling thought in the back of my head.


PS Chryso-ch4, bill bailey part troll's on.

[Lord of Sword]

Assuming you're talking about Advent Children - I downloaded it a while ago just to see what it's like, only watched the intro and one of the battle scenes. I'm waiting until it's released on dvd on the 25th of April so I can watch it full res with surround sound instead of on a computer screen.
The CGI is some of the best I've seen, humans are always hard to model and animate realistically, people can detect the tiniest problems with cgi characters/robots etc, apparently, which is why it's so hard to make them appear lifelike. They did a good job with them though, and the environments look photo-realistic. Plus its soundtrack was composed by Nobuo Uematsu, and is now one of my favourite albums.

Apparently the storyline isn't that great though, and a lot of people have said the characters aren't developed or the story's confusing. But obviously, this is a sequel to FF7 so you can't expect to know what's going on unless you've played the game or at least know what happens in it.

[ownyouall]

hasnt there already been final fantasy movie????i herd it had nothing to do with the game tho, herd it was bout like some space alien or some spirtual ****.

or is that the movie you're talkin bout

[IbanezSamurai]

Yeah, The Spirit Within, it sucked though.

Now Advent Children is a real deal, it makes you feel like you in the FFVll universe, with all of your favorite characters.

[Iron Bug]

I dont know if anyone has posted this yet or not but...

http://www.deviantart.com/view/22451106/

[Happy]

That was more scary than anything else.

[Lord Abortion]

At least it cleared that up in my mind.

Sephiroth is NOT David Lee Roth, I have so much more respect for Sephi now, Knowing he was never that terrible a singer.

[Happy]

I think it's disgraceful that a member of N-Sync plays him in Kingdom Hearts.

[kamiccollo]

I dont know if anyone has posted this yet or not but...

http://www.deviantart.com/view/22451106/


...................... .......:lol:


Some people seem to have a lot of spare time haha.

[Happy]

Still it's nowhere near as good as Metal Gear Awesome.

[Chrysostom]

Still it's nowhere near as good as Metal Gear Awesome.

Tr00f.

[red barchetta]

well, i just found out that only one piece of music featured in FFXII's soundtrack is composed by Nobuo :upset: . the rest is all Hitoshi Sakimoto's work.


as for the world name, they didnt name it Ivalice for nothing - the FF team have said that they are taking FFXII to the world of Tactics Advance, but it looks like the only things that are in both worlds are the races of the population, like those lizard-looking characters and those with rabbit ears.

[crag]

well, i just found out that only one piece of music featured in FFXII's soundtrack is composed by Nobuo :upset: . the rest is all Hitoshi Sakimoto's work.

This saddens me:(

So who is this Hitoshi Sakimoto anyway?

[kamiccollo]

Still it's nowhere near as good as Metal Gear Awesome.

Metal Gear Awesome?

This saddens me:(

So who is this Hitoshi Sakimoto anyway?

His young apprentice, muahahaha *twiddles fingers ominously*






...Ive not got a clue!

So who is he??

[Mister_Che]

Metal Gear Awesome?

http://www.deviantart.com/view/29463025/

[kamiccollo]

http://www.deviantart.com/view/29463025/

Hahahaha that was genius. So true aswell haha

[Chrysostom]

well, i just found out that only one piece of music featured in FFXII's soundtrack is composed by Nobuo :upset: . the rest is all Hitoshi Sakimoto's work.

I'm not too concerned. As long as it sounds good I'll accept this Sakimoto fellow.

[MAthiAS]

Figures why the music sounds like Tactics', same guy.

[Lord Abortion]

bugger that "being spotted" noise, bane of my existence when I played that game...

[kamiccollo]

bugger that "being spotted" noise, bane of my existence when I played that game...


Dont start me on MGS, it pissed me off so much at first I refused to play for about 2 years untill my bro eventually pursuaded me!

Love the games now though!

[Liberi Fatali]

bugger that "being spotted" noise, bane of my existence when I played that game...
It gets your heart pumping, thats for sure.

[National chaos sam]

I think it's disgraceful that a member of N-Sync plays him in Kingdom Hearts.
You never heard his voice properly though, there wasnt like one piece of subtitled dialouge! And they could have done a lot better, everything Sephy says is really quiet.

[Happy]

Yeah but still, they could've had someone like Mikael Akerfeldt.

[National chaos sam]

someone with a more powerful voice at least....

James Labrie - Dream Theater

Devon Townsend - SYL

Jonathan Davis - Korn

Just a few suggestions as to what id like sephiroth to sound like. Altough clouds voice in KH was great.

[kamiccollo]

It gets your heart pumping, thats for sure.

First few times it quite literaly gave me a heart attack. You sit there thinking sh**, sh** what do I DO??!!??!!!

[Lord Abortion]

Imagine having JLB doing it...that would be the sex.

[MAthiAS]

Akerfeldt would be better IMO. Actually... Matt Barlow would be my number one choice.
First few times it quite literaly gave me a heart attack. You sit there thinking sh**, sh** what do I DO??!!??!!!
Yeah, as a 9 year old playing that game I got freaked out easy. I hated how basically once you're seen, you're dead because the guys are infinite. Only like twice did I manage to fend them off with mass claymores down in the armory.

[Timm]

Imagine having JLB doing it...that would be the sex.
nah joe pesci ftw

[spitfirejunky]

Oh man, I was obsessed with MGS when I first got it.

The plot was so intriguing, I kept playing just so I could find out what happens. The number of plot twists made my head explode. It was so good. I also recall how they delayed the game's release in the US because of the level of realism in the plot.

But then Kojima sold himself out with MGS 2. I guess it had something to do with how they didn't want the game to be delayed and put under as much scrutiny.

[MBS]

You never heard his voice properly though, there wasnt like one piece of subtitled dialouge! And they could have done a lot better, everything Sephy says is really quiet.

"Yhya! Yhya!"

"No mercy! Show me what you got!"

"Sin Harvest"

"Prepare for all power!"

/has foughten Seph on KH many many times

I thought Sephiroth would sound dark and mysterious not... well... gay.

[Happy]

Imagine having JLB doing it...that would be the sex.
"No meeeeeeeeeercyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaayyyyyyyaaaaayy yy!"
James LaBrie FTW.

[Chrysostom]

"No meeeeeeeeeercyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaayyyyyyyaaaaayy yy!"
James LaBrie FTW.

:lol: :lol:

[National chaos sam]

killed the a hundreth time by that bloody "F Sharp" attack. mofo.

[Happy]

Haha F# attack. I love it.

[holy_roller99]

Man i have to get a hold of that game(kingdom Hearts). i read a reveiw that gave it an iffy score though.

[Happy]

It rules. Don't be put off by the fact it's got Disney characters in it. It's one of the most fun and challenging games I ever played.

[holy_roller99]

i wasnt put off by the disney characters at all. i thought it was pretty origianl in doing so. i mean it is not often when you find goofy with a spike shield and actually fighting. it is just the story line that put me off a bit but it still seems interesting.

[Chrysostom]

It rules. Don't be put off by the fact it's got Disney characters in it.

I'd like to see past that. Really I would.

[MAthiAS]

While I trust that its a good game as it gets consistently good feedback here, it must have been a hilarius moment when some guy at SE presents the idea of a game incorporating Disney characters with FF ones.

[Happy]

While I trust that its a good game as it gets consistently good feedback here, it must have been a hilarius moment when some guy at SE presents the idea of a game incorporating Disney characters with FF ones.
Funny up until
"it will make us millions"
Then they took it seriously.

[kamiccollo]

Yeah, as a 9 year old playing that game I got freaked out easy. I hated how basically once you're seen, you're dead because the guys are infinite. Only like twice did I manage to fend them off with mass claymores down in the armory.

Mass claymores?! Thank god I never had to resort to that although claymores were pretty sweet, there were quite a few bosses I had to rely on claymores to deal with!

I'd like to see past that. Really I would.

That put you off too eh?

I did play KH for a few hours but I sorta lost interest quickly.

[Timm]

/remembers pwning the sniper boss with the nikita rocket launcher

:cool:

[MAthiAS]

Funny up until
"it will make us millions"
Then they took it seriously.
SE could put **** in a box and it would sell though. X-2?
/remembers pwning the sniper boss with the nikita rocket launcher
Heh... I could never do that because those Sniper Wolf fights were fun as hell. So was the helicopter one with Liquid... good times.

[crag]

It's been so long since i played MGS:(

/remembers spying on Meryl from the air duct's

[Chrysostom]

/remembers pwning the sniper boss with the nikita rocket launcher

:cool:

She was hot. Er, I mean...er...as pixellated game characters go...

<_<

>_>

OPS2 is worried that SE have ballsed up XII with the the battle system which they say is an "uncomfortable compromise between turn-based and real-time combat". We'll see.

Also, some of you may remember a while back I hinted at who might be doing the AC voices. Turns out the rumours related to voices for KH2. Mena Suvari is Aerith. Rachael Leigh Cook is Tifa. You KH fans will be pleased to know Steve Burton is back as Cloud.

It's been so long since i played MGS

/remembers spying on Meryl from the air duct's

Hell yeah man. And the race to the toilets before the Pyscho Mantis fight to catch a glimpse of her ***.












Oh man, I need a gf.

[Happy]

SE could put **** in a box and it would sell though. X-2?

How could I forget?

[MAthiAS]

OPS2 is worried that SE have ballsed up XII with the the battle system which they say is an "uncomfortable compromise between turn-based and real-time combat". We'll see.
That seems to be a realistic concern. Kind of the impression I got was that it might be better if they just used real time.

Man you guys got me wanting to replay MGS right now...

[Chrysostom]

Man you guys got me wanting to replay MGS right now...

I played it the other weekend when I came home from uni for a bit. Still a classic. Ima run through it again over the Easter break, and MGS2 and 3 are on my shopping list.

[MAthiAS]

Man you need to get those... even though I never did finish MGS3 and haven't played it in a year, its an awesome game. MGS2 I liked a lot though it got mixed reviews. Short but awesome.

Still in the middle of my FFVIII replay too, at the part where you board Lunatic Pandora from Esthar.

[Happy]

I played it the other weekend when I came home from uni for a bit. Still a classic. Ima run through it again over the Easter break, and MGS2 and 3 are on my shopping list.
3's amazing. You need it.

[Chrysostom]

Still in the middle of my FFVIII replay too, at the part where you board Lunatic Pandora from Esthar.

I'm just ahead of you, dealing with the aliens on the Ragnarok.

[holy_roller99]

anybody remember the first Grandia game? i got to ythe part on the second disc when you had to fight the 3 seargents and they used a Delta Strike attack like 3 times in a row. now THAT pissed me off.

[Lord Abortion]

I think they should have returned to X's combat system for XII

That was one of my main problems with X-2...the combat was so unwieldy and panicy compared to X

[Chrysostom]

I think they should have returned to X's combat system for XII

That was one of my main problems with X-2...the combat was so unwieldy and panicy compared to X

I liked Xs battle system too.

[PAJJ]

I found that with X-2, it ended up with me just hitting attack and nothing else.
X's battle system was good, i liked being able to see the turns of the characters attacks, I just didn't like the sphere grid.
I liked IX's ability gaining system the best.

[MAthiAS]

X-2's battle system was okay, its wasn't good but it was probably the best part of that game. I've stated on many occasions how I hated X's system... They need to go back to VI style, Sabin's Blitz was so cool.

Man I got through a surprising amount of MGS today, you go pretty fast when using Stealth Camo. I'm right before fighting Mantis, its great that I haven't played it in a couple years so the story is coming back to me, and I don't remember the twists really.

[kamiccollo]

qhuooe... "rise"... qhuooe........

*appropiate hand gesture*




I found that with X-2, it ended up with me just hitting attack and nothing else.
X's battle system was good, i liked being able to see the turns of the characters attacks, I just didn't like the sphere grid.
I liked IX's ability gaining system the best.

I agree with you 100%.

Combine X's attack system, IX's ability system and VII's materia...oh yeah :cool:

[Otherside]

I loved X2's battle system, and XI has a great one as well, as you get farther in the game anyways. I'm definitely looking forward to XII, I think it'll be amazing.

[holy_roller99]

qhuooe... "rise"... qhuooe........

*appropiate hand gesture*






I agree with you 100%.

Combine X's attack system, IX's ability system and VII's materia...oh yeah :cool:

that would be quite complicated to do. the Materia and ability system are the same thing but instead the equipment gave you the abilities while materia could be on equipment and you coul customize. the materia would be better to have back and X's battle system was good because i could plan it better like a game of chess depending on the turn base.

[Timm]

I'm definitely looking forward to XII, I think it'll be amazing.
123 :)

/looks at amazon preorder

:cool:

[crag]

X's battle system was good because i could plan it better like a game of chess depending on the turn base.
my thoughts exactly.

i hope they do bring back the materia system, it's the only one i fully understood:(

[Happy]

I understood them all. Just Junctioning took a while to get.

[holy_roller99]

I understood them all. Just Junctioning took a while to get.

123. but once you got the hang of them it was like riding a bike. also when i was 10 i first played FF7 so i didn;t care for understanding the weapons and ablility systems as most of us were like.

[PAJJ]

X-2's battle system was okay, its wasn't good but it was probably the best part of that game. I've stated on many occasions how I hated X's system... They need to go back to VI style, Sabin's Blitz was so cool.

Man I got through a surprising amount of MGS today, you go pretty fast when using Stealth Camo. I'm right before fighting Mantis, its great that I haven't played it in a couple years so the story is coming back to me, and I don't remember the twists really.

Yeah that is a wicked move, it's making the game so easy though, everything dies so quickly.

[MAthiAS]

Combine X's attack system, IX's ability system and VII's materia...oh yeah :cool:
Why not just eliminate battles, or challenges at all?
Yeah that is a wicked move, it's making the game so easy though, everything dies so quickly.
They should've made it a bit less powerful, or make it harder to input the codes somehow, but I liked the concept a lot.

Legend of Legaia battles = sex.

[PAJJ]

Yeah maybe less powerful, but it's a great game, i'd quite liked to see a remake, but aslong as they didn't really change anything, accept allowing you to move diagonally. Ok it'd just be a graphical remake but that's all i want from vii.

[MAthiAS]

I don't know if I'd like a VI remake, it'd just be too different though it could possibly be absolutely incredible I suppose. With FFVII I want better translations too, and make it harder, maybe add in some more optional bosses too.

[Lionheart1827]

I don't know if I'd like a VI remake, it'd just be too different though it could possibly be absolutely incredible I suppose. With FFVII I want better translations too, and make it harder, maybe add in some more optional bosses too.

I would like to see an FFVI remake only if it was completely remade and possibly have a good amount of extra stuff in it. But I might not want to see it remade just like you said, it may be too different.:thumb:

[National chaos sam]

VI would be interesting to remake. I mean thats an intricate story right there, and SOOOO amny people were put off by the graphics of the PS1 conversion but the story is amazing. i can imagine alot of the frames. Kefkas tower would certainly be interesting in full 3d.

[Happy]

Yeah VI's graphics put me off quite a bit too, but I can still play it.

[National chaos sam]

its my fave PS1 remake, but the loading times for battles is rediculous.

[Lionheart1827]

I always loved how in the older FF's how Amano's artwork translated so well to the actual game, especially the enemies. In the newer FF's, a lot of the monsters dont have the artistic edge that they used to.

I remember seeing Doomblaze and I thought that was truly awesome. And I dont care what anyone says, Chupon is one scary looking mofo.:thumb:

[Happy]

its my fave PS1 remake, but the loading times for battles is rediculous.
I agree. There's enough time for a cup of tea during the loading times.

[red barchetta]

I always loved how in the older FF's how Amano's artwork translated so well to the actual game, especially the enemies. In the newer FF's, a lot of the monsters dont have the artistic edge that they used to.

I remember seeing Doomblaze and I thought that was truly awesome. And I dont care what anyone says, Chupon is one scary looking mofo.:thumb:
i agree. some of the bosses in FFVI looked really awesome. the three gods especially. (im not sure what they're called in english, but the 3 badass bosses you fight in Kefka's tower).

i cant wait for FFVI to be released on GBA.

[Lionheart1827]

i agree. some of the bosses in FFVI looked really awesome. the three gods especially. (im not sure what they're called in english, but the 3 badass bosses you fight in Kefka's tower).

i cant wait for FFVI to be released on GBA.

Hell yeah.

Lovin' the Ozzy avatar. "MWEE HEE HEE!":thumb:

[National chaos sam]

The FMV from the remakes was Amano orientated. i really liked seeing Butz in amano form. is it me or does he look NOTHING like the ingame character!?

[Lord Abortion]

I should really play VI one of these days...

See if I can understand what the hell half of you are on about...


My problem with X-2' system was it was very untactical, with X you had time to plan your moves and not panic, but with the X-2 system you just ended up hammering buttons.

[National chaos sam]

funny, I thought that the battle system in X-2 was one of the only things good in that game. I love getting massive chain attacks. Untactical? hmmm, in a way, but if you practised with it, you could really do some impressive stuff. but i agree, it is very fast paced.

[marc man]

I loved X2's battle system, and XI has a great one as well, as you get farther in the game anyways. I'm definitely looking forward to XII, I think it'll be amazing.
meh,

I think that VII, VIII and IX had the best battle system.

funny, I thought that the battle system in X-2 was one of the only things good in that game. I love getting massive chain attacks.
That was ok but not as good as the ones above.

[Lord Abortion]

but i agree, it is very fast paced.
Yeah, I really hated that.

[marc man]

Yeah, I really hated that.
same here, it was like "i'll use some magic." and by teh time you have got to the magic you want to use, you have been hit two or even three times.

[Lord Abortion]

same here, it was like "i'll use some magic." and by teh time you have got to the magic you want to use, you have been hit two or even three times.
Exactly, I found battles very frustrating because of that.

[marc man]

Exactly, I found battles very frustrating because of that.
yeah,

When i was battling all the aeons, i found it hard because they would do a normal attack and then their speical move thingy.

[MAthiAS]

But FFX's was too slow paced, so VI and VII were perfect in battle speed IMO.

[spitfirejunky]

Exactly, I found battles very frustrating because of that.

All you had to do was access options and change the ATB speed.

[DeusExMachina]

I'm actually kind of looking forward to the battle system in FFXII. I'm a sucker for real time, what can I say.

[PAJJ]

I should really play VI one of these days...

See if I can understand what the hell half of you are on about...


My problem with X-2' system was it was very untactical, with X you had time to plan your moves and not panic, but with the X-2 system you just ended up hammering buttons.

You should do, not for the great story line, good battle system , or cool looking enemies or other good points people have been talking about, but just so you can experience the greatness that is Ultros, the crazy purple "royal" octopus really made the game.

[Lord Abortion]

You should do, not for the great story line, good battle system , or cool looking enemies or other good points people have been talking about, but just so you can experience the greatness that is Ultros, the crazy purple "royal" octopus really made the game.
Your avatar makes the world great.

[marc man]

I'm actually kind of looking forward to the battle system in FFXII. I'm a sucker for real time, what can I say.
yeah, same here, i wanna see how they will do it and if they do it well.

[Lord Abortion]

Indeed.

/bumps

[marc man]

Indeed.

/bumps
bumps?

[Lord Abortion]

The thread was failing...

[marc man]

The thread was failing...
ah,


It bugs me how when you put green meateria(sp?) on people it takes off health.

[Timm]

the master materia doesn't :p

[Mister_Che]

After having to hit the R1 button to trigger Squalls gunblade, I found myself doing it in EVERY Final Fantasy I played afterwards. Anyone else do this?

[Liberi Fatali]

But FFX's was too slow paced, so VI and VII were perfect in battle speed IMO. I've never been one to have the battles on the highest pace possible, and not on wait.

I generally like to have plenty of time to strategise and plan. It isn't realistic, but I find it more enjoyable (later in the game).

Also, I finally finished my FF VIII Soundtrack review, that has quite literally been months in the making. http://www.sputnikmusic.com/album.php?albumid=6372

If any of you guys enjoy writing, I think it'd be great to see more Final Fantasy soundtrack reviews on sputnik. I think the piano collections would be fairly easy to review, rather than a four disc OST. :p

[Lionheart1827]

I've never been one to have the battles on the highest pace possible, and not on wait.

I generally like to have plenty of time to strategise and plan. It isn't realistic, but I find it more enjoyable (later in the game).

Also, I finally finished my FF VIII Soundtrack review, that has quite literally been months in the making. http://www.sputnikmusic.com/album.php?albumid=6372

If any of you guys enjoy writing, I think it'd be great to see more Final Fantasy soundtrack reviews on sputnik. I think the piano collections would be fairly easy to review, rather than a four disc OST. :p

I would LOVE to do the FFVI OST, I must've listened, picked apart, and analyzed that soundtrack countless times. The problem is I dont really have time to write the review it deserves. Finals are coming in a few weeks and I have to start getting going on papers and projects.:angry:

[National chaos sam]

After having to hit the R1 button to trigger Squalls gunblade, I found myself doing it in EVERY Final Fantasy I played afterwards. Anyone else do this?

Guilty as charged.

I also had a spree of "The Bouncer" last month, and began holding L1 for every attack in just about all the FF games I played.....Frustrating.

[Lord Abortion]

Guilty as charged.
.
I did that with the gunblade too.:p

[Chrysostom]

I wonder how many FFs there'll be before SE call it quits?

[marc man]

I wonder how many FFs there'll be before SE call it quits?
lets hope 250000

[Chrysostom]

lets hope 250000

Quite.

[crag]

I wonder how many FFs there'll be before SE call it quits?
I don't see them going past 20 really.

[Happy]

After having to hit the R1 button to trigger Squalls gunblade, I found myself doing it in EVERY Final Fantasy I played afterwards. Anyone else do this?
I have to say I never found that was the problem with me.
Although I have tried to Boost a few Eidolons and Summons with Select+Square.

[Seafroggys]

my first post in here

I've been a relatively big fan of FF since '95, when I rented FF2 (FF4 in Japan) and fell in love with it. I bought that and bought FF3/6 a year later, and loved those games.

I got FF7 for the PC in middle school, but couldn't understand what's so great about it. EVERYBODY seems to think its the seminal greatest game of all time, but I thought it was worse then 4 and 6.

I downloaded the ROM to the original a year later and played through that, and IMO its the best one of the 4 I've played through (I've also tinkered through 2 and 5, but never completed them).

My love of FF over the past several years has dwindled when I began playing 'real' RPGs such as Fallout, Arcanum, Morrowind, even Deus Ex! But my nostalgic love is still there.

[Timm]

it's never too late to repent son, it's never to late :)

I don't see them going past 20 really.
yeah

I actually hope XII will be the last regular FF and a kick *** game to end the series

if XII doesn't kick *** though, they better make a XIII or I'll make em do :mad:

[Liberi Fatali]

WHAT?

Blasphemous words right there!

I hope Square keep producing Final Fantasy games as long as they can continue evolving them. Throughout the FF lifetime, and especially during this recent Sony period, every FF game has had its own clear identity. And I really haven't felt tired of the series at all.

Keep 'em coming.

[Timm]

I'm just afraid of the seires going downhill and want them to stop before it'*s too late and the name Final Fantasy is overshadowed by crappy FFXXIV - FF XXXVII :(

[marc man]

WHAT?

Blasphemous words right there!

I hope Square keep producing Final Fantasy games as long as they can continue evolving them. Throughout the FF lifetime, and especially during this recent Sony period, every FF game has had its own clear identity. And I really haven't felt tired of the series at all.

Keep 'em coming.
yeah, i agree, the story line is near enough the same in ever game, the only differnce is that the graphics keep getting better. Sure, they'll have bad game every so ofter but all games are like that.

[National chaos sam]

They should spend thier time making an ff7 remake and continue to make FF games without numbers in them, such as FF alpha - where all the characters unite, or something :D

[marc man]

They should spend thier time making an ff7 remake and continue to make FF games without numbers in them, such as FF alpha - where all the characters unite, or something :D
That reminds me, has anyone got a copy of the FF7 movie? cause i saw it at my friends house and its been done quite well.

[red barchetta]

i dont care when they finish with FF, as long as they make one which takes about 3 years to complete on the way (i.e. 20 or 30 disks long). that would be awesome. :cool:

and once they finish with FF, they can go back to Chrono.

[Otherside]

FFXI can easily take 3 years to complete >.>

[Happy]

i dont care when they finish with FF, as long as they make one which takes about 3 years to complete on the way (i.e. 20 or 30 disks long). that would be awesome. :cool:

and once they finish with FF, they can go back to Chrono.
What are the chances of that?

[red barchetta]

What are the chances of that?
something like zero-chance, i suppose.

[Lionheart1827]

http://n64kid.ytmnd.com/

This is related to the N64 kid thread and final fantasy so I posted it in here, too.:thumb:

And yes they should start working on the Chrono series.

[National chaos sam]

Long ffs are good, but i forget alot of the stuff, I plyed ff7 3 times through, and I still forget things, luckily I wrote EVERYTHING down in an A4 Exercise book. Id like to see the NTSC only games like tactics in Pal format. I have it on my chipped PS1, but id like to get hold of PAL versions.

[crag]

i dont care when they finish with FF, as long as they make one which takes about 3 years to complete on the way (i.e. 20 or 30 disks long). that would be awesome. :cool:
:lol:that would be so awesome, i can't imagine how big the box would have to be to hold all the discs.

[Happy]

It'd be a crate.
I'd like to see a 4 disk. That'd be huge.

[MAthiAS]

...FFVIII?

I want at least 60 hours of story gameplay, plus a crapload of sidequests and subplots.

[Timm]

Long ffs are good, but i forget alot of the stuff, I plyed ff7 3 times through, and I still forget things, luckily I wrote EVERYTHING down in an A4 Exercise book. Id like to see the NTSC only games like tactics in Pal format. I have it on my chipped PS1, but id like to get hold of PAL versions.
there are

at least I can remember seeing tactics here in germany and germany is PAL so :confused:

[Chrysostom]

...FFVIII?

I want at least 60 hours of story gameplay, plus a crapload of sidequests and subplots.

You need Dragonquest 8 then. 80 hours of gameplay, plus a tonne of extra crap.

[Happy]

...FFVIII?

I want at least 60 hours of story gameplay, plus a crapload of sidequests and subplots.
60= nothing.
600, and now you're talking.

[Bub]

Starting FFX again is already going to be the downfall of my GCSE grades, and that has about 100 hours to it (not just story, monster arena and so on..basically, untilt he point you defeat Penance)

600 hours, that sounds like a generation killer

[MrConeman]

I dont know if I missed alot of the FF 12 discussion or not, but is anyone else bitterly, bitterly disapointed at the new battle system?
(If this has already been discussed, point me to the thread page)

[Lionheart1827]

I dont know if I missed alot of the FF 12 discussion or not, but is anyone else bitterly, bitterly disapointed at the new battle system?
(If this has already been discussed, point me to the thread page)

Its been discussed a few times in the past but I am disappointed its not turn based anymore.

However, the perfect score from famitsu got me excited about the game. No doubt I'm getting it on release date, because, well, its an FF.:thumb:

[Timm]

I dont know if I missed alot of the FF 12 discussion or not, but is anyone else bitterly, bitterly disapointed at the new battle system?
(If this has already been discussed, point me to the thread page)
well it has drawbacks and advantages, you can't put so much tactic into the actualbattle anymore but on the other hand you can plan when and from what postion to battle and don't get attacked out of nowhere anymore

[Chrysostom]

well it has drawbacks and advantages, you can't put so much tactic into the actualbattle anymore but on the other hand you can plan when and from what postion to battle and don't get attacked out of nowhere anymore

I don't know why they could have it where the enemies are visible and avoidable but if you wish to might them you run towards them. Perhaps the game could even have offered you a prompt like "Fight this monster? Yes/No" and then it could take you to a battle screen like older games.

[Timm]

I don't know why they could have it where the enemies are visible and avoidable but if you wish to might them you run towards them. Perhaps the game could even have offered you a prompt like "Fight this monster? Yes/No" and then it could take you to a battle screen like older games.
I like it actually better the way it seems to be in XII and the screens would get annoying imo

[burning star IV]

Do any of you guys know when Advent Children is set to release in the US?

[MAthiAS]

I don't know why they could have it where the enemies are visible and avoidable but if you wish to might them you run towards them. Perhaps the game could even have offered you a prompt like "Fight this monster? Yes/No" and then it could take you to a battle screen like older games.
I think that would be pretty lame honestly. I can imagine trying to avoid a guy and getting prompted a billion times, or being able to run from every enemy always with no troubles.

[Chrysostom]

I think that would be pretty lame honestly. I can imagine trying to avoid a guy and getting prompted a billion times, or being able to run from every enemy always with no troubles.

Yeah your right that sucked. It's be so stoppy starty. Apologies.

[DeusExMachina]

You need Dragonquest 8 then. 80 hours of gameplay, plus a tonne of extra crap.
Not sure about a ton. There aren't that many sidequests, but they're all well worth it. A great game, by any account.

[Lionheart1827]

Not sure about a ton. There aren't that many sidequests, but they're all well worth it. A great game, by any account.

did you ever beat the special boss?:thumb:

[National chaos sam]

I must get original tactics. Tactics advance was great.

[Liberi Fatali]

Only a few more days till Dragon Quest VIII is released here. :cool:

And its about bloody time.

[Lionheart1827]

Only a few more days till Dragon Quest VIII is released here. :cool:

And its about bloody time.

Game is awesome man, I hope you enjoy it. It's extremely old school, which is awesome.:thumb:

[Liberi Fatali]

Final Fantasy XII won't be hitting British shores until the end of the year, but already buzz for the series next instalment is beginning to emerge, which is supposedly going to be revealed at this year's E3.American games mag EGM makes the claim, suggesting that the next entry in the Final Fantasy series is heading exclusively to the PlayStation 3. According to the mag, a brief teaser video will be rolled-out at E3 showing off Final Fantasy XIII in all its next-gen splendour, and presumably sending series loyalists into an excited frenzy.
Whether this rumour turns out to be true or not, we think the next Final Fantasy game appearing on Sony's next-gen console is a pretty safe bet. The series has traditionally be married to the PlayStation brand, with rival consoles left empty handed of any "true" Final Fantasy games.
Either way, E3 is just over a month away and we'll be there to report first-hand on any hot announcements in the world of Final Fantasy.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/


Sounds good. :)

[Chanandler Bong]

When is FF XII going to hit the shelves here?

[Lionheart1827]

When is FF XII going to hit the shelves here?

November most likely.:thumb:

Around the same time as the new Zelda..............

......and Revolution.......

.........AND PS3.

Its gonna be one crazy fall.

[Happy]

PS3's being released in November?
Crap, I'm behind the times.

[National chaos sam]

what! PS3 in november?
I also had no idea about that. It seems like just yesterday the PS2 came out for like 1600 pounds lol

[Happy]

Maybe he means the American release. We won't see it for some time that means.

[marc man]

Maybe he means the American release. We won't see it for some time that means.
my friends say its was coming out in april.

[MAthiAS]

Apparently PS3 is going to be around $500 at release though... so it won't be so crazy of a November for me.

[marc man]

Apparently PS3 is going to be around $500 at release though... so it won't be so crazy of a November for me.
lol, yeah but thats with two games, a controler and other ****e.

[Timm]

I'll be busy playing the new zelda and FF so a PS3 can wait a little, that's for sure

[red barchetta]

i'll be too busy with other things, so games consoles can wait.

i'll have better things to spend my money on anyway, like a car or a new pc

[Lionheart1827]

Yeah I'm probably not gonna get any systems on launch. Zelda and FF12 are gonna occupy me way too much.:thumb:

[Otherside]

I'll be playing FFXII on my PS3 >.>

[PAJJ]

I don't know what i'll be playing FFXII on as I've yet to decide if I'm going to get a PS3 or a Rev... **** it i'll buy a kayak.

[National chaos sam]

why launch it so expensivley?, if they see a console at such high prices, theyll just hate it from the start, regardless of price drops later. however, any console an FF comes out on i allways have to buy. CC is the only reason i own a gamecube!

[Lionheart1827]

why launch it so expensivley?, if they see a console at such high prices, theyll just hate it from the start, regardless of price drops later. however, any console an FF comes out on i allways have to buy. CC is the only reason i own a gamecube!

If thats the only game you have for it you are missing out on a ton of great games.:thumb:

[National chaos sam]

Well, i have Resi remake and super smash mele, any others youd reccomend?

[Pop music sucks]

Resident Evil 4

Soul Caliber II

Mario Party anything, more of the newer ones

[Liberi Fatali]

Maybe he means the American release. We won't see it for some time that means.
Nope it is a worldwide release. Japan, America, Europe, Oceania.

[Timm]

why launch it so expensivley?, if they see a console at such high prices, theyll just hate it from the start, regardless of price drops later.
no

see Xbox 360 fanboyism


anywayz
in my amazon account it says that I can expect my order (which contains FF XII) to be shipped in april/may
I wish that was true :(

[red barchetta]

Well, i have Resi remake and super smash mele, any others youd reccomend?
fire emblem, tales of symphonia, skies of arcadia, zelda.

if you like FF, you'll like these games too.

EDIT: i just heard Angela Aki's 'Kiss me Good-bye' (the 'eyes on me' of FFXII). its ok. its not as good as eyes on me, but i'm sure it'll grow on me.

[Happy]

Nope it is a worldwide release. Japan, America, Europe, Oceania.
Aww what?
Better start saving my pennies.

[red barchetta]

some new FF tunes:

Dirge of Cerberus OST torrent:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/229858

Angela Aki - 'Kiss me Good-bye' (FFXII theme song):

http://www.ffdream.com/?cat=downld&rub=ostkiss_me_goodbye

[Happy]

Awesome find.


Mega-bump

[Lionheart1827]

Awesome find.


Mega-bump

Did you make your avatar faster?

Its going crazy.:thumb:

[crag]

Awesome find.


Mega-bump
:amaze: you changed your name back??!!?!

[Happy]

Yes and Yes.

[Lord Abortion]

FFXII is going to be great, IMO.

[holy_roller99]

it did look great in the reviews but i would rather judge it myself.

[Happy]

How long's left before it comes out?

[holy_roller99]

at least six months

[Happy]

That leaves me enough time to save up then.

[holy_roller99]

wasnt the realease date in october or november or somethign like that