Band 101

[KKKKKocaine]

For sending it to yourself you say that someone else could send themselves an empty parcel and then put your work in it. But wouldn't you send it to yourself before selling it to people so then when they send themselves a blank parcel wouldn't it just have a date later then urs. So you have it copyrighted not them?

Aye, It'd be your copyright because you would be able to prove having it before they did, thus you would be able to prove being the creator.

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

Another question about copyrighting:

If you just type alt 0169 (on the num pad on your keyboard), which gives you the "©" symbol, does this qualify as copyrighting? Can you usually get away with doing this?

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

i wouldn;t htink so, seeing as you can just slap any old date on there, you need to have proof that it was created then (thus the postage stamp)

[moaner]

Another question about copyrighting:

If you just type alt 0169 (on the num pad on your keyboard), which gives you the "©" symbol, does this qualify as copyrighting? Can you usually get away with doing this?

if its your copyright, sure, i guess

[KKKKKocaine]

Another question about copyrighting:

If you just type alt 0169 (on the num pad on your keyboard), which gives you the "©" symbol, does this qualify as copyrighting? Can you usually get away with doing this?

I'm not too sure what context do you mean?
Just generally putting the symbol on a cd or on a website?
It merely shows that the item in question is protected by copyright, in terms of cd's and notation it doesn't count as copyright.

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

So if I were to put:

© 2004 Joe Smith




Would that count?

[moaner]

So if I were to put:

© 2004 Joe Smith




Would that count?

well, it sure as hell won't stand up in court.

But it may put anyone off trying to steal anything and remind them the site pictures, etc., are yours

[moaner]

hey K, how about something about how to make good logos for your band, asa well as how to make some good album covers, on a budget? Something more origional than a pghoto of the band, without spending tonnes on an artist?

[Trigger_003]

KKKKKocaine (nice articles by the way :thumb: ), I read somewhere that on the document or whatever is inside the envelope you'd have to have © 2004 Joe Smith (sorry about scabbing that example) on the particular item in some place, even though it's in the envelope... is that true?

Also, if two people who live at different places worked on it, would you address it to...
Joe Smith and John Thompson
(Joe's address)
?
or just one person but inside say © Joe Smith & John Thompson 2004?

[KKKKKocaine]

So if I were to put:

© 2004 Joe Smith




Would that count?

Unfortunately not, the '©' merely indicates that the work is protected by copyright, However you need to have dated proof of creation to actually have the copyright. So just having that on the document would be like a "beware of the dog" sign on your fence, There isn't really a dog to be afraid of, but it might scare off a few people all the same.

Also, if two people who live at different places worked on it, would you address it to...
Joe Smith and John Thompson
(Joe's address)
?
or just one person but inside say © Joe Smith & John Thompson 2004?

Yeah you'd have to address it to one person but put both on the copyright footnote.
If you worked on it with John but only put down © Joe Smith, then you'd be breaking the law.

I read somewhere that on the document or whatever is inside the envelope you'd have to have © 2004 Joe Smith (sorry about scabbing that example) on the particular item in some place, even though it's in the envelope... is that true?

Hmm, I'm not too sure about that one, Although it won't hurt to stick it on there, just as an extra form of protection.

hey K, how about something about how to make good logos for your band, asa well as how to make some good album covers, on a budget? Something more origional than a pghoto of the band, without spending tonnes on an artist?

Ok, Next Issue, Band Revenue Management and Graphical Promotion :P All fancy.

[veggie 3.14]

Ok, Next Issue, Band Revenue Management and Graphical Promotion :P All fancy.
Awesome!

[Trigger_003]

Yeah, sweet :D

Thanks for answering my question, KKKKKocaine.

[unclebobscircus]

Woot, first post.

Anyways, this is by far the most helpful thing I've read (been lurking on the site for a while :P). Just want to say that it's appreciated.

[moaner]

Woot, first post.

Anyways, this is by far the most helpful thing I've read (been lurking on the site for a while :P). Just want to say that it's appreciated.

Hey, k, got yourself a fan :lol:

[unclebobscircus]

Hey, k, got yourself a fan :lol:

Don't confuse that with groupie ^^

[KKKKKocaine]

Woot, first post.

Anyways, this is by far the most helpful thing I've read (been lurking on the site for a while :P). Just want to say that it's appreciated.

Tah Brah :thumb:

My computer has only just got fixed, So I'm working on the new issues now.
We just got given the live recordings of our set, which is jolly nice, We are currently thinking of a cunning plan.
First we must enlist our replacement bassist as the other quit, then we finish off the songs in the final practice, get the 3 track demo done, 'Sweet Memories', 'Points Of Contention' and 'Romance on a switchblade', throw the demo around, Creative FM, venues e.t.c., Then put together a little 7-track goody, the 3 demo tracks with the 4 live tracks, I worked out that to have it printed with a 2 page booklet would amount to £1.85, thus selling them at £2 would be both a reasonable price and would result in a tasty 15p profit.

:)

[IRunForFun]

Nice. Even though it looks to me that I won't be at that stage for a while, the tips were helpful and i'll be using them in the future. :D

[moaner]

Tah Brah :thumb:

My computer has only just got fixed, So I'm working on the new issues now.
We just got given the live recordings of our set, which is jolly nice, We are currently thinking of a cunning plan.
First we must enlist our replacement bassist as the other quit, then we finish off the songs in the final practice, get the 3 track demo done, 'Sweet Memories', 'Points Of Contention' and 'Romance on a switchblade', throw the demo around, Creative FM, venues e.t.c., Then put together a little 7-track goody, the 3 demo tracks with the 4 live tracks, I worked out that to have it printed with a 2 page booklet would amount to £1.85, thus selling them at £2 would be both a reasonable price and would result in a tasty 15p profit.

:)

£2 for an EP with 4 live tracks?

**** thats cheap. Haven't you got recording costs to cover?

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

If they recorded it themselves (did you? I'm not sure) they wouldn't have to bother about recording costs.

[KKKKKocaine]

£2 for an EP with 4 live tracks?

**** thats cheap. Haven't you got recording costs to cover?

We're not really looking to take too much of a profit out of it, It's mostly for promotion and to get something out, We may be upping it to £3 if we fit another track or so on it, Which would give us about £60 profit if we sell 50, (£1.85 manufacturing each CD) It will still leave us about £60 short of recouping our recording costs, but we're going to hope to compensate for this with merch sales, e.g. 100 5x10 patches, costing £23, Selling at £1.50+p&p will require about 15 sales to break even, then we have another potential £127 of sales.

Also, In Jan, We are going to be experimenting with some new recording equipment I'm getting, So we may be producing an album on that, which will cut down on costs.

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

So when are the issues coming out?

[moaner]

We're not really looking to take too much of a profit out of it, It's mostly for promotion and to get something out, We may be upping it to £3 if we fit another track or so on it, Which would give us about £60 profit if we sell 50, (£1.85 manufacturing each CD) It will still leave us about £60 short of recouping our recording costs, but we're going to hope to compensate for this with merch sales, e.g. 100 5x10 patches, costing £23, Selling at £1.50+p&p will require about 15 sales to break even, then we have another potential £127 of sales.

Also, In Jan, We are going to be experimenting with some new recording equipment I'm getting, So we may be producing an album on that, which will cut down on costs.

a freinds band ocvered recording and manufacturing costs with a large gig, so that sales from their EP would be 100% profit. Not a bad idea, actually. Patches is a good idea actually, is it just your band logo?

<awaits episode with tips on how to make a proffessional looking logo with PSP and a digital camera>

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

speaking of psp....is there a place where I can get a free download?

[Itwasthatwas]

speaking of psp....is there a place where I can get a free download?

Just download the demo from their site and keep turning your clock back. It works. I've used it like that for a year before I got Photoshop. But you didn't hear it from me.

[moaner]

Just download the demo from their site and keep turning your clock back. It works. I've used it like that for a year before I got Photoshop. But you didn't hear it from me.

even more efficient:

set your clock to 2025.

Install demo, set it up. You have 30 days remaining.

Set clock back to correct time. You have 30 days remaining. You still have 30 days remaining. Still. Yup.

They may have fixed this now everyone has broadband and it can check the date online. worth a try.

[KKKKKocaine]

I'm just currently working on visual examples for the article.

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

ooo going all out on this one? I'm looking forward to it :D

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

Just got ahold of this article from an emergenza tour website. I thought it might be fit for this thread.



The support of media is an essential tool in marketing music. For this reason, it is essential that an artist has a presentation package ready, that is basically a demo and a press kit.
Here you may find listed the 10 rules (or ingredients) of a good press kit.
1 - CONTACT INFORMATION has to be clearly visible on EVERY PART of the kit. Be sure that the band’s logo is place on the front cover. The promotional material must be neatly written and laid out.
2 – COVER LETTER: when you send your press kit to a specific persons, never forget a specific introductory letter.
3 – BREVITY is the rule! Each section of the press kit should not be more than 1 page long.
4 - BIO/FACT SHEET: Point out key info on the musician(s): name, genre, brief statement, background of the band, background of each member, accomplishments, current projects. Make your bio informative and stimulating, and remember who you are writing for. Music professionals are very busy persons, and may deal with dozens of press kits like yours every week. Make them want to listen to your music!
5 – PRESS CUTS: reviews of records and concerts. Be sure to collect as many of them as possible, but do not exaggerate filling your press kit with dozens of them.
6 – ‘WHAT PEOPLE SAY ABOUT US’: quote sheets written by professionals. (producers, bookers, other respected musicians), with positive comments about your music.
7 – CD INSERT with song titles (and lyrics - optional), copyright info, credits.
8 – OFFICIAL PUBLICITY PHOTO: like the cover of your CD, your official publicity photo is one of the most effective part of the press kit, because sets your visual image, and the impact on your ‘future’ fans. Remember that your photo must look good when reduced for printing on the media. It is usually black&white, glossy.
9 – OTHER PHOTOS: insert in the press kit a selection of studio shots, location shots and venue shots. Make sure the photographer you choose has experience in the music field.
10 – Be sure that your press kits reflects an image that is appropriate for your music.

[Splig]

should the vocal amp be placed behind or in front of the guitar amps when playing live?

[OtherMenofBrutus]

a USD to £ conversion would be EXTREMELY helpful, as i have no idea what dollar figures we're talking about here. The compilation album idea is genius, and my bandmates and I have decided to do just that, rather than recording a 5 track cd. Some of this stuff has helped tremendously!

An article (or at least mini-article) idea: cool things to do in concert
this could include pyrotechnics, competitions for who can moan the best (your idea kkkkkocain), story of the year style acrobatics, wrapping the bassist completely up in cellophane etc.

[moaner]

competitions for who can moan the best (your idea kkkkkocain)

I'm there!

"You stupid kids today <grumble>, in my day there was talent is music <mumble> none of this "New Metal" rubbish, oh no... It was 100% hard work in my day, and you actually had to be able to sing an' all. <grumble> kids today..."

I so win.

[moaner]

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/services/buyandsell/currencyconverter.html

[KKKKKocaine]

Well everything has been on hold in Band 101 for a while whilst I have been trying to help make Jam Session a bit more popular, getting a mod in to sticky and unsticky, and just generally trying to help make the forum better :)
I am working on the next issue though :)

[moaner]

I think the jam session is popular enough if we're in it.

[OtherMenofBrutus]

*grasshoppers chirping*

[ernestguiseppe]

the marketing of music often throws people off and think this is the real reason that people need to hear stuff like this...my advice, make music for the ****ing sake of music, and look at it as a language and a way to communicate and youll do just fine. If your in it for the right reasons youll know it

[veggie 3.14]

the marketing of music often throws people off and think this is the real reason that people need to hear stuff like this...my advice, make music for the ****ing sake of music, and look at it as a language and a way to communicate and youll do just fine. If your in it for the right reasons youll know it
I think that's kinda why I'm in a band. Well, there's several reasons, I'll try to explain them now...

1) Mainly because I love playing guitar, and making music.
2) Because I really want to play live. (We haven't yet.)
3) Because I'd love to have an album out, with songs that I helped write on it.

Bit random, but hey.

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

*goes along with randomness*

Its the same with me, if our band ever did make it (hey look, theres a flying pig!), we'd be making music that we loved, not because we wanted to get rich fast. Money is only a bonus in my view, its the music that comes first.

[veggie 3.14]

*goes along with randomness*

Its the same with me, if our band ever did make it (hey look, theres a flying pig!), we'd be making music that we loved, not because we wanted to get rich fast. Money is only a bonus in my view, its the music that comes first.
And money is a good way of getting some nice guitars, as well.....

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

You could always do a bank job...

[unclebobscircus]

*goes along with randomness*

Its the same with me, if our band ever did make it (hey look, theres a flying pig!), we'd be making music that we loved, not because we wanted to get rich fast. Money is only a bonus in my view, its the music that comes first.

I agreewith what you're saying, but if you're going to be in a band, what's the point of not marketing yourself with flyers and everything? Play the music you want to play but make sure you get yourself gigs, that's what I say.

[KKKKKocaine]

Whilst everyone is in it or should be in it for the music, You will find that when you leave home and tour around the country that you cannot feed yourself, pay your pills, or fill your petrol tank with passion, As miserable and pointless the capitalist monetary system makes our lives, We still have to remember that the only way to play the game is to go by the rules.
Playing for passion will be fine until you hit uni, You won't be able to rely on parents as much as you could before, If your amp breaks, Your funds are limited to repairs.
You need to keep your eyes to the horizon, nothing is wrong with making enough money to survive in the business, If any of you (and hopefully you will :)) reach near breaking point level, i.e. touring, an album out on a label, nearing the big time, you will realise truly how painful the mp3 business can be and how you really don't want people taking your money.
No-one is expecting or asking you to bleed every fan dry of every penny they have Kiss stylee, because having enough money to survive and do what we love means we will be better off than a good 80% of the worlds population, probably more.
If you are in a serious band writing your own songs and getting ready to gig, you need to plan, whilst in college and high school you can afford to think of nothing but the fun side of things, if you wish to go further the reality of the world is going to hurt.
You won't have parents to bail you out with extra money anymore, You will be forced to fend for yourself, You can't spend all your money on beer and go home to a warm bed, wake up with food on the table.
The best place to start a financial future for yourself is now, whilst you are in high school with your band, or in your first year of college.
Organise, ignore the covers and go for it with every last thing you've got, use all that passion you have and the drive to succeed.
Take the oppertunities of parenting, have your parents pay for lessons, have your parents help to invest in your future.
Gig with everyband you can, in every little pub you can.
Use the people in school to network with, make sure you know every kid in every band in school, and make sure they know what you are about.
Networking is an amazing thing to do, We supported a band called Bleeding Pink on our first gig, the Vocalist contacted me for a simple link swap on websites, In mid Jan I'll be taking them into a studio to record their demo for them with £200+ condenser mics, a £14,000 mixer and master recorder set up e.t.c.

Drop your name to every promotion company you know, most are non-profit groups run by bands who want a list of bands they can use to support them at gigs.
Use every bit of creativity availible to you to get your name out.
Practice regulary at a rehearsal room?
Talk to the owner, put the idea in his head about a "Rehearsal room sponsered gig", always remember, "What's in it for me"
That's what the owner will want to know, Let him know before he has even asked, that it will get the rooms more promotion, showcase the good bands that use it, and establish a mark of quality with the rooms.
Naturally, they will provide some form of P.A. soundhelp, organisation and promotion help.
From this you get a free gig, extra promotion e.t.c.

There are a hundred copies of you doing the exact same thing, with the same goals, You have to stand out from the other 99 and get noticed, you can't afford to be conventional, you have to be an innovator.
Ignore all that "Why don't you do this course in case music doesn't work out?"
Sure there is nothing wrong with a backup plan, I myself am training to be a producer if my band doesn't make it, but there is a big difference between a backup plan and sabotaging yourself.
Go ask any musician who had to give up their job for something non music related.
It's the same old story, "A part of my died on the day I walked into that office"
Don't let anyone tell you what job you should be doing, don't allow yourself to be cannonballed into a job you hate until you eventually subcumb to all the misconstrued logic.

"Only 20 bands a year make it in the UK blah blah blah"
This is not a reason to stop trying, It is a reason to try harder.
Ignoring the definition of 'make it', 20 bands HAVE to make it a year if that statistic is correct, If you try hard and have the passion, Why can't your band be one of those elite 20?
In the words of Cypress Hill
"It's a fun job, but it's still a job"

[moaner]

I agreewith what you're saying, but if you're going to be in a band, what's the point of not marketing yourself with flyers and everything? Play the music you want to play but make sure you get yourself gigs, that's what I say.

I coulnd't agree more. Unfortunately, all famous bands get pretty rich, and integruty will get you nowhere in the music business. Sell yourself rotten (in all but the literal sense) (unless you REALLY need money for gear) and you'll go far, and proably make money.

[Kosmos Tree]

I couldn't agree more with what you said KKKKKocaine.
Someone told me that a band nowadays is just like a company.
You have to work for the profit of your product -which is the music you make- you have to promote yourself, play as often as possible and earn money for gear or a CD.

I'm quite happy that i'm in a band right now, where every member is obsessed by music but totally understands that you have to work for success.
We also agreed that we want to try to get as big as possible.
The band is complete since a month but it feels like we have played together for several years and we achieved a lot during this time, mainly because we practice four times a week and work our butts off for the band ;)
We have own songs, the first gigs are in sight, website will be up soon (check www.forcequad.com in probably 2 weeks ;) ),demorecording is planned for the start of next year. We have connections to professional graphic designers, photographers, a studioowner and several other people who can and want to help us to achieve our goals - which is very important i think, because you can't do anything by yourself.

[FatherKeeL]

.. so we recorded a 4 song demo last year.
.. at the moment we are working on our first album, wich will have 10 - 12 songs on it.

.. if i send out press info. do i include the entire album, or should i send a cd with 2-3 stand-out songs...

(since i like all our songs, id like to send all, but i assume no one feels like listening to the whole 50 minutes of it, right?)

[KKKKKocaine]

.. so we recorded a 4 song demo last year.
.. at the moment we are working on our first album, wich will have 10 - 12 songs on it.

.. if i send out press info. do i include the entire album, or should i send a cd with 2-3 stand-out songs...

(since i like all our songs, id like to send all, but i assume no one feels like listening to the whole 50 minutes of it, right?)

Send the 2-3 standout songs, They have very little time to spend on submissions so you need to make sure they spend that little time on your best pieces of work, If they like your work you will get the oppertunity to play them the whole album :)

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

Should we do a demo or an E.P for our first release? I think we have could write enough material for an E.P but for a first cd would a demo be better? (for press kits etc..)

[Splig]

Demos are always first. Send the demos to record labels. And if you have enough $$$ for studio time, then go ahead and do an EP, but don't expect it to make too more money than what you put into it.

[DruMMeR_BoY14]

I wasn't planning on it. my dad did some electrical work for a guy with a recording studio so I was going to ask him about it and see if we could get in there cheaper than he would usally charge.

[FatherKeeL]

if your are unexpirienced, id do a demo first, just to learn about recording....

if youve got the know-how, time and money for an ep, go ahead though.

just id start small if i where you...

[moaner]

if your are unexpirienced, id do a demo first, just to learn about recording....

if youve got the know-how, time and money for an ep, go ahead though.

just id start small if i where you...

if you do a good job on the demo, you could always put the songs on your ep, although thats not a good idea if you've sold your fans the demo.

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

This thread hasnt been posted in for ages.

Is there a hold-up Kocaine?

[moaner]

This thread hasnt been posted in for ages.

Is there a hold-up Kocaine?

he's a busy man, and its christmas. well volunteered to make the next issue ;)

[FatherKeeL]

... its easyer to answer questions, than to volunteer information. i think i should know enough to say something useful... but as is, i guess ill just wait till someone askes the right questions.

but ive ben reeding your articals and tips kocain... cant wait for more :-)

[veggie 3.14]

Volunteer (I can't spell it either) information.... hmmmm.

Veggie's piece of random advice #1. When writing a song, it has to be catchy. My friend's band wrote a song, it was ok, but it was majorly let down in one area. No one could remember the song (apart from the band) an hour later. Not to good if you're looking to make it big, is it?

[KKKKKocaine]

Ok guys sorry bout the hold up, I'm not too sure about the graphics article, basicly at the moment it's looking to be me talking about how simple is better e.t.c. use unique free fonts, use something memorable, corporate identity e.t.c
I'm thinking of running something else off instead?
But I will also be giving you my epic Music Industry Assignment for the fun of it, it covers jobs in the music industry, some basic facts like the role of publishers compared to record labels, how much will a manager charge, the pro's and cons of DIY publishing e.t.c.
I had fun writing it.

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

Ok guys sorry bout the hold up, I'm not too sure about the graphics article, basicly at the moment it's looking to be me talking about how simple is better e.t.c. use unique free fonts, use something memorable, corporate identity e.t.c
I'm thinking of running something else off instead?
But I will also be giving you my epic Music Industry Assignment for the fun of it, it covers jobs in the music industry, some basic facts like the role of publishers compared to record labels, how much will a manager charge, the pro's and cons of DIY publishing e.t.c.
I had fun writing it.

Whatever is good. Just as long as we get something out of it. Every article has helped. :thumb:

[darkwhite]

yeah Kocain i think it would be a good idea if the next atricle was on the rolls of different peopl in the music industry like, publishers, promoters, producers and other words that start with the letter "p" keep up the good work, youre my hero haha

[KKKKKocaine]

yeah Kocain i think it would be a good idea if the next atricle was on the rolls of different peopl in the music industry like, publishers, promoters, producers and other words that start with the letter "p" keep up the good work, youre my hero haha

I'm up to page 5 which is, "How do publishers maximise royalties collected?" So I probably have another 5 pages or so for the last merit task and then the 2 distinction tasks.

[darkwhite]

you are going to post all of that on the forum? haha or did i miss something about you posting them on the net somewhere? :p

[KKKKKocaine]

you are going to post all of that on the forum? haha or did i miss something about you posting them on the net somewhere? :p

I'm gonna stick it all in here, Postcount ++ :p

[moaner]

I'm up to page 5 which is, "How do publishers maximise royalties collected?" So I probably have another 5 pages or so for the last merit task and then the 2 distinction tasks.

by treating artists like groupies?

"Once you've used them for what they're good for, ditch them before they want somehting from you!"

[Linkin_Park15]

I've read the whole thread and i'm a huge fan of yours KKKKKocaine.

[darkwhite]

you have fans now! haha you know you are a good mxer when you have a fan club....

:( i wish i had a fan club...HEY! who wants to join my fan club?!

[moaner]

you have fans now! haha you know you are a good mxer when you have a fan club....

:( i wish i had a fan club...HEY! who wants to join my fan club?!

i think you should be joining mine, somehow...

<points>

[darkwhite]

ill think about it haha, ok fine im in

[moaner]

ill think about it haha, ok fine im in
:thumb:

[EvilKillerFlyingMonkeys]

Ooh! ooh!! Every fan club needs willingly stupid n00bs! ;)

Yeah, by the way, thanks for this Kocain... It rocks!! Now i just need to send it to my band lol... They could learn a thing or two!

Keep up the good work!

[XemoXmoshXpitX]

Are we getting any more articles out of this thread? I haven't seen it on the Jam Session first page for ages. :upset:

[moaner]

Are we getting any more articles out of this thread? I haven't seen it on the Jam Session first page for ages. :upset:

the games up, kocaine...

[KKKKKocaine]

Sorry about the months and months of delays, I gave up on the logo creation, So what does everyone want to see next for an article?

[moaner]

Sorry about the months and months of delays, I gave up on the logo creation, So what does everyone want to see next for an article?

How everyone should go to moaner for their demos?

[OctoberDistrict]

Hey, this is quite the cunning thread.

I'm in an unsigned band, and we've been playing around for a while now, and the first few issues cover just about everything we've done. It's nice to see we're probably on the right track!

The part about publicity is especially pertinent, as the singer is always coming up with new ways of making ourselves heard!!

www.octoberdistrict.co.uk

[meizmatt]

great thread....helps so much....thank yoou for staring it

[allhailJimmypage]

Dude these things are really awsome. 2 probs that i thought maby you could help me with. the first and biggest is that i write these cool songs but they sound like others that people say they know. 2nd is how do i just come up with cool things for my whole band to play? help

[Sailorgirl#1]

Hey KKKKKKocaine, this is great stuff! Can't wait for your next issue!

[robgerts]

this is f***ing awesome!!

[ClayTheJ]

Stop posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

It gets annoying doesn't it? Yea, he knows its good so you don't have to tell him anymore.

[moaner]

Stop posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

It gets annoying doesn't it? Yea, he knows its good so you don't have to tell him anymore.

aww, leave the n00bs alone, kkk needs some kicks in his life

[kirkhammett7191]

Band 101-
DO NOT - Play during the breaks between songs, this is when the vocalist needs to push the band on people, it's horrible to be at a gig when this happens, " Hey, so we're still <drum fill> thanks for all coming tonight and <guitar solo from random song> hope to see you there as well, our new <bass drum tests> of october, thank you, the next song <bass> enjoy yourselves"
Well next issue, I'll be going into more gig tips, D.I.Y recording e.t.c.



i can just imagine ****in hilarious

[PowerStamp]

Hey I read the first half of this a long time ago and just started reading the rest of the lessons, but can I make a suggestion?
Make an off-page site with the lessons on it by themselves (possibly with "chapter" styled links leading to each lesson?) to make it easier for anyone who hasn't read it yet. Of course keep posting them in here too, but that'd be a swell idea IMO.


A suggestion to any band that's wanting to be SERIOUS about it:
Rent a Rehearsal Studio if at all possible.
My band just rented a studio with 24/7 access, a 12x24 room for $250 a month (4 members, so $62.50 each per month)
Sure you have to pay, but you can practice ANYTIME you want, there's an in-house studio ($38 per hour) who now has a label that will distribute their CDs online for them.
And then there's the garage band's nightmares that are gone with this option:
1> Police
2> Parents getting upset/mad at the noise
3> Neighbors getting upset/mad
4> Siblings/friends messing with your expensive equipment

[moaner]

Hey I read the first half of this a long time ago and just started reading the rest of the lessons, but can I make a suggestion?
Make an off-page site with the lessons on it by themselves (possibly with "chapter" styled links leading to each lesson?) to make it easier for anyone who hasn't read it yet. Of course keep posting them in here too, but that'd be a swell idea IMO.


A suggestion to any band that's wanting to be SERIOUS about it:
Rent a Rehearsal Studio if at all possible.
My band just rented a studio with 24/7 access, a 12x24 room for $250 a month (4 members, so $62.50 each per month)
Sure you have to pay, but you can practice ANYTIME you want, there's an in-house studio ($38 per hour) who now has a label that will distribute their CDs online for them.
And then there's the garage band's nightmares that are gone with this option:
1> Police
2> Parents getting upset/mad at the noise
3> Neighbors getting upset/mad
4> Siblings/friends messing with your expensive equipment

you are SO RICH


a rehearsal room can be as little as £25 a day, but you have to book.

[LivingDeadBoy]

Actually renting out a room 24/7 works out cheaper than single days.

A room for 1 hour in toronto, with an 800 watt pa system, standard drumset and cabs, costs 15$.

Usually a band needs minimum 3hours so 45$.

If you rent out a 24/7 room, u get 672 hours. Of course let's say you can only practice weekends, so that's 8 hours each weekends. 32 hours per month.

24/7::
250$ the rehearsal room itself
75$ the pa system with speakers
50$ for drums,
50 more for cabs..
TOTAL: 425$

BOOKING:
32*15= 480$ if u practice the same amount at a practice studio.

If you also rent out a 24/7 one, the personnel is friendlier, you can leave your equipment overnight, you don't have to worry about it being not available, and many other plusses.

So uhm.. Just decide yourself. If your band's income is unstable book.
If you think you are responsible enough, rent out the rehearsal room 24/7.


Hope this helps.

-LivingDeadBoy

[moaner]

an 800w PA IN A REHEARSAL ROOM?!?!??!?!


OMFG!!!!

that is 4x bigger than anyone would ever need ever in a practise room.

[Nightvision]

*Singer sees 800w PA*

"Cool, check this out!"

*Walks over to speaker and sits on it*

*Drummer sees mixer*

"Hey, what does this knob do?"

*twists volume knob to full*

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEC H!!!!!!!!

*Bassist scrapes remnants of singer off ceiling*

"Anyone know any good singers?"

[Catch22man]

*bump*

[moaner]

*Singer sees 800w PA*

"Cool, check this out!"

*Walks over to speaker and sits on it*

*Drummer sees mixer*

"Hey, what does this knob do?"

*twists volume knob to full*

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEC H!!!!!!!!

*Bassist scrapes remnants of singer off ceiling*

"Anyone know any good singers?"

HAYO!!!

[moaner]

You will learn more about band life from this link (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail126.html) than from the rest of this thread put together

seriously... this is awesome.

[stringbreaker]

Still waiting on next issue but seriously best thread ever!

[T'an-mo]

Same as but My band has improoved alot noe with 7 songs woo.

[Vaughn]

guys, why no lessons???? im dying here!

[Pedal2daMetal]

Wheres the next post. My band is crapping out and I need this to LIVE.

[KKKKKocaine]

Ok guys, what do you want the next one on? I feel I've taken enough of a break now :)

[moaner]

Ok guys, what do you want the next one on? I feel I've taken enough of a break now :)

i think based on some of the recent threads i've seen something on songwriting would be pretty handy.

[doggonit]

*bump*....
still no new lesson.... i'm not sure wat i want next tho...

[Divine Drummer]

Totally great thread here. Just wanted to say about the band naming thing. Incubus means summin about a demon. Which you wouldnt have expected from their music. But i guess not many people know what incubus means so thats ok.

Also can you do one on a band crew like what people would be good for support. (Manager, Techs etc..)

[aircon]

can anyone explain the whole key concept.....like how some people say their songs are in key of d or e and ****.....i jst put together chords that sound good wiht the lyrics and they turn out ok......

[airborne50caliber]

incubus is derived from the latin word for nightmare, not demon.

[Divine Drummer]

incubus is derived from the latin word for nightmare, not demon.

(Ĭng´kyoobes) , lascivious male demon said to possess mortal women as they sleep and to be responsible for the birth of demons, witches, and deformed children. According to one legend the incubus and his female counterpart, the succubus, were fallen angels. The belief in these demons was especially prevalent in the Middle Ages, and stories of assaults by incubi were not uncommon. There are similar spirits in many cultures. In current usage, incubus means a person or thing that oppresses, such as a nightmare.

Encyclopedia.com :)

[Divine Drummer]

Iv'e only just started a band and wondered if the money gained from gigs etc.. if you are doing at least half good would support you for recording, promotion, touring etc.. or would you need another job (I rele dont wanna stack shelves in a supermarket)

[KKKKKocaine]

Iv'e only just started a band and wondered if the money gained from gigs etc.. if you are doing at least half good would support you for recording, promotion, touring etc.. or would you need another job (I rele dont wanna stack shelves in a supermarket)

You will naturally need some personal investment, but you can support yourself from gig money, stick it somewhere safe and save it. If you play 3-4 gigs a month and get paid even a fairly small amount like 20 pounds per gig, it's still 80 pounds a month. Plus any money you make from selling cd's and other merchandise.
And by the time you get to touring, you'll be playing much better paying venues with larger crowds. So you could help support a tour from there (albeit a small one, in a transit van sleeping in the van) I'm not talking about a tour bus with hotel stops for 2 months, and I'd expect to have to rent the transit van because gig money or not, 4000 for a second hand transit van is a hefty price.

Another job always helps for paying for stuff and extra support but if you're serious about the band and plan financially you should be able to manage it, although you don't want to get a job, I might reccomend it, or at least make sure some people in the band are working at least, you don't want to run out of funds and have recording costs to pay or printing costs.

If you want to drive costs down further, DIY stuff, we just DIY'd the production for our debut E.P. 'Put Pen To Paper And Hope It Holds"
Instead of it costing us 120 pounds for 50 cd's in sleeves with full colour on the cd and a 2 page full clour booklet. It's cost us about 30 pounds for 50 cd's in jewel case with colour insert and back and printed cd.
I'll admit it doesn't look as clean and polished as if we'd spent 4 times as much, but it's presentable, and that's all it needs to be.

Don't bother going to printers for gig flyers, get an ink cartidge and make your own black and white ones.
The same for t-shirts, buy wholesale shirts (heavy ones to prevent warping in the wash) get printer shirt transfers, and if done correctly, they'll last around about a year before starting to peel.
Or you could screenprint with a printing board and squigie for cheaper simpler designs.

For the things you can't make yourself, make sure to shop around, you may as well spent a few hours sitting on google and with the phonebook on your lap seeing who can get it done the cheapest.

Hope that helped a bit :)

[Divine Drummer]

Koolios thanks for that, also i was just wondering can you park up anywhere and sleep in the van (in UK).

[gaz12369]

Koolios thanks for that, also i was just wondering can you park up anywhere and sleep in the van (in UK).

Do you have a drivers licence..you should probably know if you do..

You can park pretty much anywhere, aslong as its not on double yellow's or anything - deffinatley not on a hard shoulder. Just try not to pick anywhere too out of the way or dodgy..some weird people around these days...

[oogaboogabooga]

Oh little tip for you all - Free copyrighting
When you've recorded your stuff, doesn't even need to be good quality, just recognizable as your song
Stick the cd or whatever in an envelope/parcel whatever and mail it to yourself - DO NOT open in when it arrives stick it somewhere as evidence (in court if it needs to go that far) that they are your songs, not some thieving faggots its is FULL evidence

[devildriver421]

i just have a quick question relating to the last post you made. i know if you record your own cd's you get all the profit, but what if you get a record deal, do they pay you up front or do you get a percentage or what? thanks

[KKKKKocaine]

i just have a quick question relating to the last post you made. i know if you record your own cd's you get all the profit, but what if you get a record deal, do they pay you up front or do you get a percentage or what? thanks

They'll give you an advance payment at the start, a big cash amount for recording, touring costs e.t.c.
Then per album sold you'll get a small percentage, such as 5% of the album cost once a few things are deducted. This is known as royalties.

[devildriver421]

alright thanks ive been wondering that for a while

[airborne50caliber]

next issue of what?

[moaner]

Koolios thanks for that, also i was just wondering can you park up anywhere and sleep in the van (in UK).
there are some places you can, but many car parks forbid it. remember you need access to water at some point: to fill up your bottles.

here's a hint: it usuall costs only a few pounds to go swimming and get a shower. If you ask nicely, some pools will let you have a shower for free, if its quiet.

[ElKapitan]

quick question:
who has rights to band names if u split up? i've heard very mixed things about it
not that i really need to know, i'm just curious

[moaner]

quick question:
who has rights to band names if u split up? i've heard very mixed things about it
not that i really need to know, i'm just curious

its a joint asset. you can pay for it, you can hold onto it if a member is fired or quits, but if there's a full split its best to drop it, and agree this with the others.

[ElKapitan]

its just that i've seen about 3 touring versions of the same band, all sporting at least one member, and thought it slightly odd

[Vaughn]

please, im hyperventilating! i need a big issue! pppplllllleeeeeeaaaaaasssssssseeeeee

[airborne50caliber]

go have a run outside. its a nice day (here)

[moaner]

go have a run outside. its a nice day (here)

same here.

[airborne50caliber]

I just decided that my room is a permanent studio, divided it into two, and placed all my quipment in a wall facing the rest of the room. proper studio floor now. but no space for anything else.

[ElKapitan]

what wall coverings do u use?

[airborne50caliber]

wall as in a barrier. not a proper wall. but i put foam and sheet on my walls

[oogaboogabooga]

oh do some sort of issue thing on what to do about troublesome band members who don't turn up and stuff

[airborne50caliber]

oh do some sort of issue thing on what to do about troublesome band members who don't turn up and stuff

so much for optimism.

they get less recording time and still have to pay :lol:

[uriasmetal.com]

so when/ what is the next issue?

[LivingDeadBoy]

When you are talking to someone, I'm just wondering.

What is a "support" band? And then what is a "headliner" band?

[airborne50caliber]

headliner band headlines a tour, show, or festival. They are the main act, play last, and play the biggest setlist. Support bands play small slots before them and are sometimes not mentioned on the ticket.

[KKKKKocaine]

When you are talking to someone, I'm just wondering.

What is a "support" band? And then what is a "headliner" band?

A headliner band is the main band, last on, longest set.
The support bands are all the bands that go on before them.

The lingo for a line up is as follows.

First Band of the night = Openers
Second Band = Support
Third Band = Main Support
Final Band = Headliners.

The main support is the support band on just before the headliners.

[LivingDeadBoy]

Thanks a lot guys!

[airborne50caliber]

.. and usually the main support is the only one that ends up featuring on the ticket.

[moaner]

.. and usually the main support is the only one that ends up featuring on the ticket.

although the support are usually named on flyers.

[Phototropic]

I have an intresting dilemma

Thought I would share it with you guys, maybe you could give me some advice

A month ago I wasn't in any, now I'm in 3 bands

I will list the bands in order of priority

Band 1

This is the one where I write all the music, record everything except vocals and if we ever gig, I'd play guitar

My friend sings on it, she has an awesome voice

It is our music, our songs, we love doing it

Band 2

The first band I joined, I drum, we play metal-ish rock type stuff, 2 singers / guitarists and a bassist :) It's working out pretty grand

I'm enjoying the ride and learning to drum better than ever

Band 3

The second band I joined...they want to do a lot of covers :( radiohead, QOTSA etc, music that I AM into....but I don't want to cover

I'm thinking of leaving soon


Just thought I'd share my experiences :( being in a load of bands is more stressful than good

2 is enough me thinks

:thumb:

[moaner]

ditch the 3rd. the 1st probably isn't putting too much strain on your time (and doesn't soud too stressful) and if the 2nd is making you a better player, thats great. but if band 3 are fairly new, they're unlikely to be full on writing yet.

[gaslight]

Ditch the 3rd band.

[airborne50caliber]

definitely. I would consider ditching the second also to dedicate more time to band 1, but since its helping your playing, maybe its worth keeping.

/realises th guy didn't ask for help, he just told us what was goin on.

[moaner]

definitely. I would consider ditching the second also to dedicate more time to band 1, but since its helping your playing, maybe its worth keeping.

/realises th guy didn't ask for help, he just told us what was goin on.

he wouldn't have postred it if he didn't want opinions.

[Phototropic]

Heh thanks guys!! :) Yeah I wanted to hear your opinions on it

Band 2 is cool, whenever they say we're practising I go and practise, band 1 is whenever I feel like it :p

Like this weekend I've been programming drums, so however long it takes, then when I feel like it' I'll do the guitars and then give it to my singer to work her magic on

Band 3 is 'pffft'

I'll probably tell them soon

[south_guitar]

Help with getting CD Cover/Layout Design, Logo Design, Merch Design, etc.

For unsigned bands it is often hard to find a designer to create quality designs for a decent price. Bands are often overcharged for crappy designs, or just get plain crappy designs for free or cheap. You do not want a poorly done CD layout, logo, flyer, etc. It is not appealing to the eye and people are less likely to look into your music. You also do not want to pay $275 for a band logo - no matter how good looking it is.

So here I have tips for getting a quality product for a price that will not take away from your band's budget:
1) If a commission artist (artist who does art for money) has a flashy website that looks incredible, chances are it is a person who uses commission art as a source of income. Therefore, they need to make a living off of you, which often leads to overcharging. Do not get overcharged, try to negotiate a price! Artists NEED your business, they will negotiate for a reasonable price!

2) Often artists will have their prices upfront. They will make the prices extra high to make their art seem worth the price. Don't fall for this. Give a good look at their portfolio and make sure that the art fits your band's style and is quality work.

3) ONLINE ART COMMUNITIES! Here you will find thousands upon thousands of artists posting their work to get their name out. Rather than an artist putting their stuff upfront, here you will have to do some digging to find the right person. A major online art community is Deviant Art (link below). Be sure to join so that you can get in contact with artists. Almost all art communities are absolutely free to join. Now that you have an account, seek artists that are creating commission art that fits your needs. If their art appeals to you, look for their email address. Try giving good comments on their artwork if possible. When you get their email address, email them and include the following:

- Your name (first name will suffice)
- Your band's name and link to website, Purevolume page, Myspace page, etc.
- What you're looking for (band logo, CD layout, flier design, etc.)
- A general idea of what you want the art to look like (grungy, gory, simplistic, abstract, etc.)

Tell them to contact you if they're interested and say thank you. Be friendly and provide any other information you might think they would want. If the artist is interested ask for a few concepts. When the artist gets back to you with the concepts, show them to the band and discuss which you like best. Do not be afraid to ask for them to tweak something on one of the concepts. When you have decided on a design, negotiate a price. Be assertive and use common sense. Only pay a price that adheres to your budget.

Online art communities:
http://deviantart.com
http://gfxartist.com
http://graphic-forums.com

Quality (not the cheapest) commission artists:
Derek Hess - http://derekhess.com
Asterik Studio - http://asterikstudio.com
Angryblue (Just Kamerer) - http://angryblue.com
Discordant Art (Chad Lenjer) - http://discordantart.com
Adam Stewart - http://smellslikedark.com
Check out the links sections of these artists and you will find other great artists.

I hate to plug myself, but I can do logos, CD layouts, mucho cheapo:
http://southguitar.deviantart.com

I hope this is helpful to some people. Feel free to ask questions here.

[airborne50caliber]

nice post. good post. nice post.

:lol:

[devildriver421]

is that the cover that black dahlia murder is actually gonna use for miasma?

[airborne50caliber]

is what the cover they're gonna use.

Oh, and BDM< rock. And so do As I lay dying

[south_guitar]

is that the cover that black dahlia murder is actually gonna use for miasma?

No, I wish I could do some work for the Black Dahlia though..

[devildriver421]

**** i was gonna say i want you to mail me your autograph hahah. thatd be awesome to do stuff for them, they're like my favorite band. i cant wait for the new album to come out its supposed to be so heavy. anyway that art was really good

[Trigger_003]

I agree - nice post, good art :thumb:

[south_guitar]

**** i was gonna say i want you to mail me your autograph hahah. thatd be awesome to do stuff for them, they're like my favorite band. i cant wait for the new album to come out its supposed to be so heavy. anyway that art was really good

Thanks a lot. Yeah I'm really looking forward to it, too. It will be hard to follow up after Unhallowed.

[devildriver421]

yea what a sick cd, but then again, some more time to get better. listen to "a vulgar picture" on the ozzfest site. here (http://ozzfest.com/media.html) if i say so myself, very good song. i think they'll have a great cd, but yea following unhallowed, especially as a debut full-length, wow thats tough.

[uriasmetal.com]

has kkkk said what the next lesson is?? btw... i thought that art was great also

[IdiotAmerica96]

hey, I was just wonderin about this but for everyone whos in a band, which method of songwriting do you prefer? jamming and then tabbing out whatever you thought was good, or the way kockaine described, with you write lyrics first? cause I thought that the way kockaine described it was brilliant and ironicly, the day before I read that, I figured it out, but today I found some bands who prefer the jamming method.. Just wonderin about some others opinons..

[devildriver421]

what we do, is the bassist and i(guitar) write some stuff, and then at practices, we show each other, take what we like, maybe change it if the other person sees something different, then kind of jam on it, thinking of other stuff. we get a few riffs, then get the drums into it. then once the song is done, the singer

[insta111]

Yea we have the guitarist(me) and the drummer write something that fits together, then the bassist and the keyboardist put their part in. Our singer has a great voice, and we have almost no trouble writing lyrics for him.

[CelticPunkRocker]

We write songs that sound good, And i write lyrics, not necesserily for that particular song, just write them down.







I DO NOT RECOMEND THIS!!!

[Trigger_003]

There is no way that works for everyone. Just try various techniques equally and see which one you as a band consider the most effective :).

[airborne50caliber]

We write songs that sound good, And i write lyrics, not necesserily for that particular song, just write them down.

I DO NOT RECOMEND THIS!!!

???? Do not write down lyrics? Ever? :lol:

[sh1ftd]

Band 101-
DO NOT - Play during the breaks between songs, this is when the vocalist needs to push the band on people, it's horrible to be at a gig when this happens, " Hey, so we're still <drum fill> thanks for all coming tonight and <guitar solo from random song> hope to see you there as well, our new <bass drum tests> of october, thank you, the next song <bass> enjoy yourselves"

Our god ****ed guitarist cant figure this out, he does this during practice all the time it really pisses me off cuz i cant talk to the drummer.

[MAthiAS]

Anyone know what KKK is up to? I just read all 16 pages of this awesome thread...

[airborne50caliber]

He's on an extensive gig tour, a very busy guy. :lol:

[CelticPunkRocker]

you know what i mean

[airborne50caliber]

No.

[CelticPunkRocker]

i meant, if your gonna right lyrics, i reckon its better to right them for songs.

[airborne50caliber]

Where did that come from? What's the link?

[CelticPunkRocker]

oh Sorry, i cant quote, i meant, you said summink about never rightin lyrics

[IdiotAmerica96]

when is kocaine due back?

[JillyBo]

Alright... So I have a question

My band have only been together about four months but people are always surprised at how good we are.

Our first four studio sessions we didn't do any covers we just went in and wrote songs and we got four amazing.. like honestly really good songs out of it. But ever since then it's kinda gone downhill and whatever we seem to write just doesn't work.

Was it just beginner's luck or are we now doing something wrong? At the beginning the formula was I'll write the guitar.. The singer writes the lyrics but it didnt work for a couple of weeks and now we're mixing it up..

So does anyone have any advice for getting back on track?? We've kinda lost our way a bit.

[moaner]

when is kocaine due back?

never.

i doubt he'lll be back again.

His craaazy life has gotten really busy- now he#s dropped out of college he has to work, and he's concentrating a lot more on his band. It wouldn't surprise me if he was never back in here again.

[airborne50caliber]

Alright... So I have a question

My band have only been together about four months but people are always surprised at how good we are.

Our first four studio sessions we didn't do any covers we just went in and wrote songs and we got four amazing.. like honestly really good songs out of it. But ever since then it's kinda gone downhill and whatever we seem to write just doesn't work.

Was it just beginner's luck or are we now doing something wrong? At the beginning the formula was I'll write the guitar.. The singer writes the lyrics but it didnt work for a couple of weeks and now we're mixing it up..

So does anyone have any advice for getting back on track?? We've kinda lost our way a bit.

You aren't really giving much detail.

[Phototropic]

Alright... So I have a question

My band have only been together about four months but people are always surprised at how good we are.

Our first four studio sessions we didn't do any covers we just went in and wrote songs and we got four amazing.. like honestly really good songs out of it. But ever since then it's kinda gone downhill and whatever we seem to write just doesn't work.

Was it just beginner's luck or are we now doing something wrong? At the beginning the formula was I'll write the guitar.. The singer writes the lyrics but it didnt work for a couple of weeks and now we're mixing it up..

So does anyone have any advice for getting back on track?? We've kinda lost our way a bit.

It would be best if we could hear these songs so we could give you the best advice we can

Upload them at soundclick or purevolume?

[KKKKKocaine]

Alright... So I have a question

My band have only been together about four months but people are always surprised at how good we are.

Our first four studio sessions we didn't do any covers we just went in and wrote songs and we got four amazing.. like honestly really good songs out of it. But ever since then it's kinda gone downhill and whatever we seem to write just doesn't work.

Was it just beginner's luck or are we now doing something wrong? At the beginning the formula was I'll write the guitar.. The singer writes the lyrics but it didnt work for a couple of weeks and now we're mixing it up..

So does anyone have any advice for getting back on track?? We've kinda lost our way a bit.

Chances are it's beginners luck, if you've only been together for a short while you will still be combining your collective influences and musical aims. You won't have reached a unique musical style for your band. Chances are you'll spend the next few months tinkering with new songs of different styles and such until you fall into a recognisable style for your band.
Just keep writing songs, if something doesn't feel right try and discuss with the band different things you could change and just tinker around with it. Eventually you'll find your style.

when is kocaine due back?

I'm on an mx hiatus. I'm only posting in this thread if I have to really. I might be back in a few months or something. We're working on our album this month and we just fired our drummer for being an undedicated pissbrow.

He wanted to go on a 3 day PERFORMANCE course rather than play 2 gigs with us, 1 where we'd be recording a live dvd, and the other was an all day outdoor festival for about 500 people. :rolleyes:
If anyone needs me, msn me: bandage_these_hearts@hotmail.com

[airborne50caliber]

wow, live dvd and 500 people festival. Go you, boo him.

[noreason88]

haha my band realized our drummer was undedicated after he just stared moping around over girls and being arrogant and smashing his symbols. good thing it was early on because we woulda had conflicts by now either way.we got a friend whos good to make uo drusm for the songs so hopefully by late summer we can get some kind of demo out.but were only 14 so i think we have a bit more time to find a new one. and thanks alot kocaine good luck with your tour and album. i spent the better part of thisafternoon reading over this whole thred and its pretty danged usefull.

[Phototropic]

haha my band realized our drummer was undedicated after he just stared moping around over girls and being arrogant and smashing his symbols. good thing it was early on because we woulda had conflicts by now either way.we got a friend whos good to make uo drusm for the songs so hopefully by late summer we can get some kind of demo out.but were only 14 so i think we have a bit more time to find a new one. and thanks alot kocaine good luck with your tour and album. i spent the better part of thisafternoon reading over this whole thred and its pretty danged usefull.

Good post, but please :( for the sake of others use grammer and paragraphs

[airborne50caliber]

Yeah ****, that gave me a headache.

[IdiotAmerica96]

how does not capitilizing letters give you a headache?

[moaner]

how does not capitilizing letters give you a headache?

when you have to read lots of text, paragraphs and grammar make it much less of an effort to read.

[airborne50caliber]

very tru and also there is not much, energyinvolved in takin a bitta care to capitolise en use grammer speell things properly so u mightas wel do it.

[moaner]

very tru and also there is not much, energyinvolved in takin a bitta care to capitolise en use grammer speell things properly so u mightas wel do it.

omgursorite aerboourne ur liek teh best!!!!111111 :naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty:

**** ****in **** you ****in ****

[IdiotAmerica96]

I don't really see many other people gettin corrected on grammar, but then again, why the **** are we talking about grammar in a thread that's supposed to be teaching us how to kick *** on stage and stuff

[soheaven]

love this thread

[moaner]

I don't really see many other people gettin corrected on grammar, but then again, why the **** are we talking about grammar in a thread that's supposed to be teaching us how to kick *** on stage and stuff

because no Record label would take you seriously if you emailed:

RE: band

Hi2u sony!

were a gr8 band in west uk and we 4t you mite like to give our band a record deal so that we can record our album n 2 help u decide we have attached our best song 2 dis email and we hope u liek it!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

from teh knights in black armour

[the.warmth]

Woah! I just read this whole thread and emailed it to my band.

KKKKKocaine you are a legend!

[moaner]

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
- Hunter S. Thompson

[Woundweaver]

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
- Hunter S. Thompson

Nice Quote

[Phototropic]

because no Record label would take you seriously if you emailed:

RE: band

Hi2u sony!

were a gr8 band in west uk and we 4t you mite like to give our band a record deal so that we can record our album n 2 help u decide we have attached our best song 2 dis email and we hope u liek it!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

from teh knights in black armour

:lol:!!

[I-cant-sing]

What do you guys think we should put on our demo ie. how many songs, differant tempos, melodic, etc.

[Phototropic]

The first song should be your best

3 songs maximum is the rule of thumb I think

Just pick your 3 best songs and place them in order :D

[I-cant-sing]

The first song should be your best

3 songs maximum is the rule of thumb I think

Just pick your 3 best songs and place them in order :D
should we get listeners to come in and pick the best three, or should we choose them? :thumb:

[Phototropic]

Its up to you

If your confident that 3 of your songs are your best use them

If not survey your friends and get them to choose and leave comments so you can see what people think :)

Post them here dude, I'll crit them for ya

:thumb: Good luck

[Trigger_003]

should we get listeners to come in and pick the best three, or should we choose them? :thumb:
Also, if you've got a particular purpose for making this (gigging purposes or whatever), think of your audience. If you're attempting to get a background music gig at bright, happy coffee shop, it's not really worth putting on any death-metal tracks, if you know what I mean. It's fairly obvious, but some people don't actually consider that.

[I-cant-sing]

thanks guys

[justignoreme]

whens the dude gone continue this saga?
its great!
its like everything you need to know in laymans terms

[moaner]

whens the dude gone continue this saga?
its great!
its like everything you need to know in laymans terms

never, i'm afraid.

the k is too busy being in a slightly successful emo-metal band for us.

[devildriver421]

What do you guys think we should put on our demo ie. how many songs, differant tempos, melodic, etc.

i think you can have 4, if all 4 are good. if one is alright, dont put it on just to mak ethe demo longer, it will lower your popularity. No more than 4 though.

[I-cant-sing]

i think you can have 4, if all 4 are good. if one is alright, dont put it on just to mak ethe demo longer, it will lower your popularity. No more than 4 though.
thats what we are going to, thanks mate. :thumb:

[Swovy5]

the thing about putting your best songs first is kind of double edged.

on one hand, you can put the songs that would most likeley be accepted by someone that wants you to play music for them first.

on the other hand, you can put the songs that YOU like and display what kind of music YOU want to play. this can be risky

[styler]

man cmon everybody, we gotta keep this thread alive, we cant get anybody to freeze or delete it, everybody get talkin, how would a band go about getting gigs?do we just walk into a bar or someit and say "hey can we play for you guys?"

[devildriver421]

Understand something: This thread is dead and gone. If you have any band questions that aren't answered in here, just do a search, and if you can't find anything, make a thread. This was a great guide, and still is, but it's never gonna be updated.

[noreason88]

Understand something: This thread is dead and gone. If you have any band questions that aren't answered in here, just do a search, and if you can't find anything, make a thread. This was a great guide, and still is, but it's never gonna be updated.

What's the problem, maybe this thread can still be put to good use. Maybe people could post their own tips or expierances or lessons on how to guide bands along and stuff like that. kkkocain did a great job with this but theres so much more knowlage to be shared from other mx members. I think leaving it would be dumb and it would be great if people continues to post in it.

[devildriver421]

Yea but the thing is that it gets spam like this filling it becuase people just talk, we'd need to make an official band guide where t gets edited everytime someone makes a tip, and its not some huge list.

[HAZCHEM]

Someone should go and compile this and put it in the guitar lessons, etc..

[noreason88]

This isn't guitar lessons this is band lessons, and, yeah I'm sure all of kkk's band info would take up maybe 5 pages at most if there wasn't so much spam, does anyone think a new band page guide type thing is worth it so long as theres no spam and only lessons and tips? Theres all kinds of junk around mx to help bands but it's all over.

[devildriver421]

If it was made a sticky, and people would post their tips, and then the threadstarter would add it onto the lsit, then the person deletes their post, it would be good. So there would be very few posts.

[noreason88]

yeah

[devildriver421]

Alright guys I'll make an official band guide thread(mostly made up of these lessons) if there's enough enthusiasm. I'll just type it up in word pro and then put it in here and I'll reserve a couple posts to add on, and then anyone with any tips can post them and I'll add it as we go. I'm not gonna do this if there isn't enough desire for it though, its gonna take a while and I don't want to do it if nobody cares.

[HAZCHEM]

Sounds good :thumb:

[noreason88]

Thats a good idea, if I can be of help in any way let me know.

[riverniall]

good idea, it'll be a huge help to all of us here

[devildriver421]

Alright I'll do it if we get like 10 people or so saying they want it. I mean no offense, but it isnt worth my time if only 3 people are gonna care.

[Marah]

I want it.

[CantBuyAThrill]

Alright guys I'll make an official band guide thread(mostly made up of these lessons) if there's enough enthusiasm. I'll just type it up in word pro and then put it in here and I'll reserve a couple posts to add on, and then anyone with any tips can post them and I'll add it as we go. I'm not gonna do this if there isn't enough desire for it though, its gonna take a while and I don't want to do it if nobody cares.

That would be greatly appreciated.

[KKKKKocaine]

Alright guys I'll make an official band guide thread(mostly made up of these lessons) if there's enough enthusiasm. I'll just type it up in word pro and then put it in here and I'll reserve a couple posts to add on, and then anyone with any tips can post them and I'll add it as we go. I'm not gonna do this if there isn't enough desire for it though, its gonna take a while and I don't want to do it if nobody cares.

You've got my support for that.
I will actually be updating this sometime in my return, I just want to get some inspiration. Let's all keep the official band links thread alive, just keep on throwing your links in and I'll keep that updated for you.

[devildriver421]

You're back!!!!!! :thumb: Alright well I guess I'll make it, but kkk, could you just post any updates in that thread, adn then I'll add them to my original post?

[devildriver421]

Ok well I copied all of the articles into a program, and it's 43 pages, and that's before I add anything myself. So expect it to take about 20 posts lol, but it should all be on the first page, I'm just ognna reserve posts, and I ask everyone to not post in it for a while because I'll still need the actual time to reserve the posts, which could take a few minutes, and I don't want any spam.

Also, I'm looking for quotes about the music business, or bands, or music in general, if anyone knows of any, let me know. Not stupid ones, serious ones with either advice or knowledge.

[devildriver421]

Come on people, I'm giving my time to make a spam-free guide, and all I ask for is a little help.

[Catmanbob]

*enthusiasm for devildriver*

[devildriver421]

lol I got it all in order, I just gotta edit it now, add some of my own stuff, I'm gonna write an article or 2, so expect it tuesday night.

[Catmanbob]

I won't forget. :thumb:

...my band could use it...

[devildriver421]

Hah alright, I know this thread has been great for me, and I figured I'd give back/show my appreciation by re-doing it without all the spam, and put into order. I have it going from starting a band to recording to promotion to gigging. I figured gigging is completely separate then recording and business and all that, and it seemed like it should be at the end. I just need quotes from people.

[devildriver421]

Look guys, I have this on my computer, I'm not in a rush to finish it for myself, it's as a favor to this forum and KKKKKocaine. All I'm asking for is a few quotes you know about the music business, or anything music related. I'd really appreciate it. thanks

[hamster]

Well, sorrrry if we dont reply within 24. A lot of us have other things to do than browse around a forum all day.

[devildriver421]

Yeah because that's all I do, I didn't work 8 hours today or anything. so stfu noob

[hamster]

I wasn't implying that's all you did. I was implying that you didnt wait very long for anyone to respond. and btw, im so hurt my your flamage. :rolleyes:

[devildriver421]

24 hours on this forum is a long time when there's usually at least a few hundred people on it, and responses are almost instant sometimes.

[chowhao]

Hi

Does anyone has the drum tabs for ABBA's Dancing queen. If someone willing can share with me how to play the groove for it? Thanks

[Trigger_003]

/offers to put the compiled guide onto a website once you're done (since you've already started work on it)... if you and The K don't mind, of course :).
That way it can be edited (I have no problems maintaining it if people send me articles) easily without needing to worry about any spam between articles.

And in case you've managed to miss it, it would be worth including http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259626 into this. Have a look at some of the sites listed there if you need some more articles or to go a bit more indepth on something.
Hope that helps :thumb:.

[devildriver421]

Well the website wouldn't be needed, because I'm gonna reserve more posts after the entire compilation so I can add articles. And I have no problem maintaining it, because I do spend a bit of time on these forums. But thanks for the offer, and thanks for the link, I've seen but but I'm going there now to check for anything else that might be good. And sorry guys, it's gonna be another day until I can get this done.

[Trigger_003]

Cool. I was just saying that because it would be one heck of a lot easier to navigate a series of pages with direct links to what people want as opposed to having to scroll through one very long page.

*shrug*

[devildriver421]

Yeah I appreciate the offer, but I don't really see it being necessary.

[CantBuyAThrill]

Devildriver, here's some music-biz and related stuff quotes. You've probably already hit these, (if you've used google effectively,) but I felt it might help you get things done quicker, just in case you hadn't yet got enough and hadn't hit this site yet. I really appreciate what you're doing, by the way.

http://www.guitar9.com/columnist393.html

[devildriver421]

Sweet thanks man, I never saw it, and I'll look through now and see if I can incorporate it. Sorry htis is takin a while guys, I've been busy, worked today then went to the hospital till just a bit ago, etc etc.

[CantBuyAThrill]

No problem man. :thumb: What's the new prediction on when you'll get it finished? (Don't mean to rush you, I'm just curious.)

[devildriver421]

Well tomorrow is booked, I'm working, then having band practice, then partying, so sunday night.

[CantBuyAThrill]

Not to rush you again, or bother you or whatever. But it's Monday night, man...

[devildriver421]

I know I know sorry. I've been online, but haven't really had time to work on it.

Saturday night I went camping, thinking I'd get some sleep, but I stayed up all night, so sunday was shot, and i was just sleeping all day on and off, then fell asleep at like 10 for good, and today I thought I had to work so I went there to find out the dumb bitch changed the schedule yesterday and didn't call me, so I came home and worked on the guide a bit, then got bored so I worked on my cabinets, then had to go into town for a few things, and that brought me to about an hour ago, when I was playing guitar.

Sorry again, I'll try for tomorrow night....blah this is taking so long

[CantBuyAThrill]

It's cool man. We're (or at least I am) really thankful for what you're doing, feel free to take your time, you're doing the forum a favor.

[devildriver421]

Yeah well in the short time I've been on this forum I've learned more than in an entire year. People put videos, and I just meet alot of cool people, so I figured I'd help out and do this (plus, it'll be easier for me to read through, not that I don't almost have it memorized. hah). I'm tryin to hurry up for you, but I've been busy. I tell you it's the alcohol and bitches that wear me out.

[CantBuyAThrill]

What's the news for tonight?

[devildriver421]

It's goin up in a few minutes! I just need to ask everyone to please not post in it for a few minutes I need to reserve enough posts to fit it all lol

[CantBuyAThrill]

t3h sweetness

[slpntrx5]

these lessons should be stickied. now!!!

[KKKKKocaine]

Sup guys.
Just a heads up, I'm going to be setting up a site in the coming weeks.
Basicly a big band resource site, with one difference.

It's actually going to be useful and free.

Naturally the best band 101 articles are going to be on there and some new ones.
Plus the band resource list but with more detail and ratings.
Basic DIY recording information.

A worldwide listing of all venues* in differing catagories such as Good for small bands (i.e. will accept almost any band of any level of any style with limited hassle) up to venues that are much more strict with the bands they accept.



*Not all on one page though, they'll be seperated by country, state/province and finally city. Also this is obviously gonna need alot of help from you guys, I can't really supply people with information for the best venues in Alabama for a new band :P So that's going to be a user submitted database as well as all the info I can muster from UK venues.

A forum catering for as much as I can possibly think of, recording, gear questions, music news, gig swaps, general discussion e.t.c.

User submitted tips and articles.
The site won't be some geocities pile of wank, I'll be going with a properly hosted site, nicely designed e.t.c.

Do me a favour and just drop me a post letting me know if you'd give a **** about the site, and anything you could contribute or suggest to improve it. :)

[why-was-i-banned]

sounds good dude, good luck, cant wait to see it

[Phototropic]

Sup guys.
Just a heads up, I'm going to be setting up a site in the coming weeks.
Basicly a big band resource site, with one difference.

It's actually going to be useful and free.

Naturally the best band 101 articles are going to be on there and some new ones.
Plus the band resource list but with more detail and ratings.
Basic DIY recording information.

A worldwide listing of all venues* in differing catagories such as Good for small bands (i.e. will accept almost any band of any level of any style with limited hassle) up to venues that are much more strict with the bands they accept.



*Not all on one page though, they'll be seperated by country, state/province and finally city. Also this is obviously gonna need alot of help from you guys, I can't really supply people with information for the best venues in Alabama for a new band :P So that's going to be a user submitted database as well as all the info I can muster from UK venues.

A forum catering for as much as I can possibly think of, recording, gear questions, music news, gig swaps, general discussion e.t.c.

User submitted tips and articles.
The site won't be some geocities pile of wank, I'll be going with a properly hosted site, nicely designed e.t.c.

Do me a favour and just drop me a post letting me know if you'd give a **** about the site, and anything you could contribute or suggest to improve it. :)

Hey man, that sounds frickin' awesome

I duno how helpful it would be but I'm sure I could provide a lesson + pics on recording / multi-tracking for beginners (4-tracks, 8-tracks rather than PCs) etc

:( Meh

:thumb: good luck

[KKKKKocaine]

Hey man, that sounds frickin' awesome

I duno how helpful it would be but I'm sure I could provide a lesson + pics on recording / multi-tracking for beginners (4-tracks, 8-tracks rather than PCs) etc

:( Meh

:thumb: good luck

Yeah that'd be helpful. As for the recording side of the site I'm looking at having articles about everything from getting the best guitar tone on a recording, to making a basic set up. Something really expansive that can cater from bands who have a small budget and just need to put together a basic demo, to bands who want to produce a good quality cd.

[Phototropic]

Yeah that'd be helpful. As for the recording side of the site I'm looking at having articles about everything from getting the best guitar tone on a recording, to making a basic set up. Something really expansive that can cater from bands who have a small budget and just need to put together a basic demo, to bands who want to produce a good quality cd.

Ahhh I see, well I can at least provide pictures sometime :)

Can't wait to see the site

[moaner]

I'll gladly be the king of "experimental" music on ur site lawl

and i know about recording guitars and stuff

you knew you could rely on me anyway though.


Any name ideas yet? and you need to think about how you're gonna get adwords on there and get rid of any popups and banners from free providers.

google will put adwords on your site and pay you for all the little clicks...

[KKKKKocaine]

I'll gladly be the king of "experimental" music on ur site lawl

and i know about recording guitars and stuff

you knew you could rely on me anyway though.


Any name ideas yet? and you need to think about how you're gonna get adwords on there and get rid of any popups and banners from free providers.

google will put adwords on your site and pay you for all the little clicks...

I'm going to host it with the same people who did BTH's website hosting so there'll be no worries of pop up banners and unrelated stuff.
I've been looking at googleadsense and it looks pretty advanced so I might tinker with it and see how related the ads are, but I'm not gonna do any pop up advertising.

[moaner]

they're pretty related, and very unobtrusive.

It'd be like "Joining a band? www.forming bands.co.uk" "Portastudio www.gak.co.uk", that kinda thing.

[KKKKKocaine]

Right, I've been trawling through this thread and picking out the best articles and making some additions to them for the new site.
We're still only looking at about 15 articles though so if anyone has any articles they'd like to submit then email me at bandage_these_hearts@hotmail.com and I'll make sure your works all properly credited to you, and if you have a paypal/Nochex account I'll put a little donation box on the page of your article so anyone generous enough can reward you for your work :)

I also need some help with the venue listing. It doesn't matter where you live. Just send me the venue name, as much of the address (Inc. country, and state/province) as you've got, as many contact details as you have for them. Notes about the venue (size, typical turnouts, genres that usually play, size of bands that normally play i.e. is it for new bands, established bands?) and any other details you have.

So if you know any at all, email them over to me. I'm especially interested in the small venues that cater to new and upcoming bands that you'd only really hear about via word of mouth rather than massive stadium-esque venues.

As for the actually release date for the site. Well I don't know.
I'm waiting for the bank to send my pin for my new account, and then for my wages to go in. So we're looking at 2-4 weeks to get the shell of the site running.
As always, let me know if you have any ideas for the site or anything that could help it at all. And suggestions for a name would be good too! band101.com is already taken :(

[Trigger_003]

It's probably not needed, but if you want any help with all the collab'ing/formatting/scripting/etc., I'm offering :)

[SkaRabbit]

loooking forwed to this.

[x0dus]

ok here are all the articles in a .txt file.

15992

[KKKKKocaine]

ok here are all the articles in a .txt file.

15992

Thanks alot.

I plan to write a few new articles for the launch of the site.
Does anyone have any topics they'd like me to cover?

Woo! The pin came for my new account today, I just need to wait for my cheques to clear and I can start the site!

[x0dus]

maybe some more grass roots articles like talking about what gear one might need to be able to play live with. i know its very basic but it might make your site look more 'complete' if you have guides from like the bare band basics to more advanced issues like copyright.

maybe some tips on how to keep your bandmembers happy? band leader advice or something like that..

just some suggestions. looking forward to your site!

[Phototropic]

Thanks alot.

I plan to write a few new articles for the launch of the site.
Does anyone have any topics they'd like me to cover?

Woo! The pin came for my new account today, I just need to wait for my cheques to clear and I can start the site!

What about band communication when a full jam isn't able such as even talking / acoustic jamming, since it's not always convinient to make a racket

[KKKKKocaine]

Yeah I'll try and put something together on those topics.

I've worked out how I'm going to initially finance the site and it's upkeep.
I have no intention at all of making anyone pay for any part of the site, not even making some sections free and having 'premium' areas.
To start with I'm expecting a fairly small visitor base. So I can get away with a pretty damn cheap host for the first few months. (We're talking