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Merkaba
08-08-2004, 12:30 AM
There seems to be so many asking the same questions that i decided to make a post of my posts. well the threads in which i have posted that relate to voice, singing, and screaming...etc. I will update it from time to time And i will start linking to this new post which contains links to the others. I hope this helps, and happy hunting.

Warmups

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219806

Singing From the "Gut"
http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911&page=36, post #711
http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13868974&posted=1#post13868974 #902

Vocal Cord Isolation

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4360701

Finding Head Voice
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9745852#post9745852
http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911&page=43
About #856

Exercises For power,range, and flexibility

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5510425#post5510425


Screaming

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214130
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216681
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108543
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217625
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219314
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215341
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216131

Mucus (a must read for the serious vocalists)
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219357
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237789

Dealing with Pain in the throat
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227425

Some Samples and Instruction
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=228211

Official Voice/Singing Help thread
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370155

Good Misc.
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233117

shadedlife
08-08-2004, 01:18 AM
this **** should be stickied.

Merkaba
08-08-2004, 01:28 AM
this **** should be stickied.

i was thinking the same thing but i didnt know what contributes to getting stickied so. hey who knows. :wave:

Merkaba
08-08-2004, 12:59 PM
Hey thanks for the sticky! I'll try to update whenever possible. thanks alot.

toe_knee
08-12-2004, 09:12 AM
oooooo -twirls around like a retard-

mia913
08-12-2004, 08:55 PM
hey would my singing be effected in anyway if i get my tongue pierced??

Merkaba
08-13-2004, 03:55 AM
i've got mine pierced and it has no effect. it might for the first few days that your tongue swells up to twice its original size. hehe. i wouldnt worry about it. thats funny, today i took my vibrating tongue ring to work to show off to the ladies. They thought it was very , very ...very interesting. anyways.

kriswrite
08-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Tongue piercing will definitely affect how well you enunciate...unless you take it out when you sing. Although most pop and rock music isn't generally well enunciated, enunciation plays a strong role in creating a clear, clean tone.

Kristina
www.geocities.com/kristinasvocalstudio

j0s1ah
08-19-2004, 06:40 PM
define enunciation.

Merkaba
08-20-2004, 12:12 AM
It doesnt bother mine one bit. It might also depend on where you get your tongue pierced. I wouldnt get it too forward.

enunciation is bascially how you make the sounds that make up your words...something along those lines.

LeadSinger327
08-26-2004, 10:00 PM
Merkaba, I am starting to sing through my gut and it sounds GREAT, well it is compared to the crap it sounded like earlier...and I REALLY REALLY WANNA THANK YOU...cuz if it wasn't for your threads dude I would have probally went on messing up my voice..Thanks Hombre...just one more thing lol...when singing through the gut, do you still do the 50 - 80% thing right?...if so...how do you make it to where you voice doesnt sound dull, because I get a little irriatation in the back of my throat after doing a 10 minute warm up and starting to sing my songs...I might be going over the whole 80% volume max rule lol...but i want it to sound good, not like a drag...welp thanks ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT Merkaba!

- Cody

Azraelscross
08-26-2004, 10:05 PM
i have a question about my voice. i don'y know whats up but i have a regular deep singing voice(was a while ago not sure) and a high falsetto. but i have no mids it seems. do you have any suggestions for things to do so i have at least some in between? i haven't tried in a while but i was gonna start soon and just wanted to know if there was anything i could do.

ps. is it even possible? and i'm only 16 if age is a factor in it.

Merkaba
08-27-2004, 12:55 AM
Merkaba, I am starting to sing through my gut and it sounds GREAT, well it is compared to the crap it sounded like earlier...and I REALLY REALLY WANNA THANK YOU...cuz if it wasn't for your threads dude I would have probally went on messing up my voice..Thanks Hombre...just one more thing lol...when singing through the gut, do you still do the 50 - 80% thing right?...if so...how do you make it to where you voice doesnt sound dull, because I get a little irriatation in the back of my throat after doing a 10 minute warm up and starting to sing my songs...I might be going over the whole 80% volume max rule lol...but i want it to sound good, not like a drag...welp thanks ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT Merkaba!

- Cody

Well youre welcome, but thank yourself more. We're all here for each other too. i've learned a bit believe it or not. I realized that i had gotten caught up so much in all of these other things i had been concentrating on with my cords. that i had not been focusing on my breath as much as i needed. so i actually had to start concentrating on my own gut more!

Yea, the whole idea of learning to sing with less push is that you cant do this while being tense or throaty. The more you support with your gut, the less you have to have any feel of pushing. So yes, when youre using your gut you still want to sing without a lot of push. over time you might have to back off. Findiing the support gives you so much more ability that you can over do it a bit. but for now just continue to concentrate on it.

well, you shouldnt be getting any irritation doing a warm up. Thats almost a paradox. Its just not a warm up! And you can call it a taco, but it wont be a taco, ya know. To me, now this is just to me, 10 minutes is not a good warm up for me. and i find that i fatigue my cords alot by trying to do too much with a small warm up. I would suggest you do like i do and consider your whole day prior to "real" singing as a warm up. i start as soon as i get up. i start just vocalizing and singin very lightly. and doing glisses, eee's. scales, whatever, as im walking around scratching my sack, rubbing my eyes and fartin', getting clothes, doing this or that. i gargle lightly with sound and do scales gargling, when in the shower. just whatever.

have you recorded yourself singing lately? you might find out that you are singing too hard. i suggest you record in some way , any way, asap. or go to the local post office at night or when noone is in there and realize how easy you have to sing with proper acoustics in place. But over time you develop a feel for what is too much push and what isnt. You can just feel it in your cords. over time just through trial and error and i know that when i get a specific feeling, that feeling before has continuously led me to quick fatigue and down hill. Its all in my head now, but i've had to develop this with all my registers, and with all intensities. I dont know anyother way to tell you other than remember that if you push too hard youre not getting anything extra. there is a point of dimimishing returns. you will have to find this on your own. which is perfectly fine as along as you warm up adequately and theres no pain. its ok to fatigue your cords. without a teacher, its just trial and error. but like i had said in an earlier post today, if there is no pain, and no affect to your speaking voice, then continue to push your limits. remember youre going to have to just strengthen to keep good tone with a harder push. this takes time, and there is no way around it. just pay attention and you'll develop your own degrees of what you need to do.

There is also an area where if youre singing hard, you need to let the air escape, this is where you rasp. if youre not trying to rasp, but youre singing hard, youre forcing your cords to close against too much pressure, where as if you were rasping, you would be releasing this extra air to the back of the throat for the rasp. so if your not trying to rasp a note, you really shouldnt be pushing hard at all. Trust me, regardless of what you see on tv, or videos or even in concert. if its not a rasp, you can get any not to sound full and blasting with like 30% gut push. Again, how do you think these guys tour a whole year with shows every other day?! Even the strongest cords couldnt do that with near maximum or maximum push. its all about having an open relaxed throat so you get a full rich resonance that sounds thick as hell and you can add whatever kind of facial expressions or whatever to make it look like whatever you want, and youre not feeling lower because the sound and feel thats coming out is just right, so youre not worried about equating push with emotion, which is what singers do wrong. an open and relaxed throat can give you alot of presence and with a little throat shift, you can get a heavy sound with out a lot of push. it will just take time for you to find your own points. you want to just play around and feel yourself out. you will need lots of non judgmental alone time to grow the fastest with best feedback so that you can know the feel of your own optimal push. Now dont get me wrong, especially when you start off, you will have to give some good push to get alot of what you want. just keep the throat open and relaxed. but overtime you will realize that you dont need that same push to get the activation your seeking. so keep it in the back of your mind ALWAYS that youre striving for everything to be as easy and as non strenuous as possible.

But to sum up, i would try a way longer warm up. and dont try any push until youve been warming up a while. and remember that you give less push the higher you go up(again, when you reach falsetto, you have to keep a good pressure however, it takes a bit more of airy effort)

Merkaba
08-27-2004, 01:15 AM
i have a question about my voice. i don'y know whats up but i have a regular deep singing voice(was a while ago not sure) and a high falsetto. but i have no mids it seems. do you have any suggestions for things to do so i have at least some in between? i haven't tried in a while but i was gonna start soon and just wanted to know if there was anything i could do.

ps. is it even possible? and i'm only 16 if age is a factor in it.

Its not only possible, it already is there.Did you read the section on isolation exercises? if not, then do. doing Glisses should help you alot. You should be able to go from your lowest chest voice to your highest falsetto with one breath without losing anything whatsoever. and highest falsetto down to lowest chest voice. I love doing glisses. Its just a good thing to do . its like yoga for your cords.

proper breathing is important, from the gut, and dont over push.

your cords are thinner/thinnest in the mids/upper mids. they might be weaker here, and you need to work with it, without over pushing! The thinner they are, the less pressure it takes to vibrate them! with falsetto your cords arent clamped together, they open up, so its a different ball game.

And be sure youre not constricting your throat. I've written about this numerous times. and its all here in the forum. But what happens is that many people equate higher vocal squeeze with higher throat squeeze. this just will not allow you to develop higher head notes. your air pressure is not balanced with a tense high throat and youre just gonna fatigue instead of strengthen. its all in the isolation post.

If youre not a "naturally" strong singer at a young age, then yea, 16 might be a little testy. its like trying to run against a 20 year old. unless youre just one of those gifted. But its not too early by any means. just read this forum over. you need to warm up adequately, learn to isolate your throat from your cords, sing from the gut without overpushing, with an open relaxed throat, and warm down after your work. no pain ever, and your speaking voice should not be affected. so read up, and keep practicing those glisses ...at different speeds. and over time just start at a mid note and do notes and exercices. everything you need to know for your specific question is somewhere in my sticky!

ManWhoSoldTheWorld
08-27-2004, 03:05 AM
I have a question about screaming. I'm learning how to scream, well teaching myself. But I'm having a few problems. The first is I don't think I'm pushing right. Whenever I scream my throats starts to be sore. And when I scream the scream always gets caught in my throat, either on mucus or spit. Which totally destroys the scream. And my scream is also too...hissy is how i'd describe it. sometimes to the point the scream will break up into a hiss. the scream i'm trying to achive...I don't want to sound stupid because i've said this in other forums but i don't know any other band..like old underoath stuff. not the really deep screaming, but the high, crazy screams.

Merkaba
08-27-2004, 03:20 AM
i dont know underoath.

your probably pushing too hard and closing your throat as you tense for the scream. Its all in the sticky threads. hissy cause you probably have little tone, and its just air. there should be no pain ever. and if you have mucous you need to warm up way more, and push less. the harder you push and more incorrect you sing, the more and quicker mucous developes as you go along in a session. the mucous is there for mainly protection. so if youre accumulating it, something is wrong with your singin. unless you have a sinus drainage problem which i couldnt help you with. read the posts. plus, the higer picth screams are thinner cord screams, you dont have to push as hard, just becauase youre going up in pitch.

Azraelscross
08-27-2004, 11:14 PM
Its not only possible, it already is there.Did you read the section on isolation exercises? if not, then do. doing Glisses should help you alot. You should be able to go from your lowest chest voice to your highest falsetto with one breath without losing anything whatsoever. and highest falsetto down to lowest chest voice. I love doing glisses. Its just a good thing to do . its like yoga for your cords.

proper breathing is important, from the gut, and dont over push.

your cords are thinner/thinnest in the mids/upper mids. they might be weaker here, and you need to work with it, without over pushing! The thinner they are, the less pressure it takes to vibrate them! with falsetto your cords arent clamped together, they open up, so its a different ball game.

And be sure youre not constricting your throat. I've written about this numerous times. and its all here in the forum. But what happens is that many people equate higher vocal squeeze with higher throat squeeze. this just will not allow you to develop higher head notes. your air pressure is not balanced with a tense high throat and youre just gonna fatigue instead of strengthen. its all in the isolation post.

If youre not a "naturally" strong singer at a young age, then yea, 16 might be a little testy. its like trying to run against a 20 year old. unless youre just one of those gifted. But its not too early by any means. just read this forum over. you need to warm up adequately, learn to isolate your throat from your cords, sing from the gut without overpushing, with an open relaxed throat, and warm down after your work. no pain ever, and your speaking voice should not be affected. so read up, and keep practicing those glisses ...at different speeds. and over time just start at a mid note and do notes and exercices. everything you need to know for your specific question is somewhere in my sticky!

thnks man. gonna try all of that out. its just i don't really wanna have to search for a vocalist too when i start my "little" project. but first gotta get a guitar and practice. thanks again. you rule :thumb:

LeadSinger327
08-28-2004, 08:32 PM
Dude Merkaba, you are the man...I have been following these threads and I've been able to hit better notes that I want..I've even learned how to kinda scream like Axl Rose and not mess up my voice...you rock man, you should like get a "Posting" award lol...but to the point...Will my voice be higher pitch if i stick with these long warm ups and pratices? because I really want to have a high pitched barritone...is that possible?...and another thing how do i get my scream less raspy...I sound like I am murdering someone when I want a Emo Band scream lol...If I sing loud with my gut singing will that mess up my throat? I drink 5 bottles of water while praticing daily...since I am on the right track...My chords should be getting stronger right? Thanks for all your help dude, you're a musician life saver!

- Cody a.k.a Lead Singer

putit2myheadbaby
09-06-2004, 05:52 PM
i've been reading all your posts and practicing and i think i have it down to an extent... im a little bit shy when it comes to being infront of a mic though....

just how much do u hafta stress to get a good sound out of a mic when screaming?? i heard it allows you to slack off some and the sound is still fairly decent... but u dont wana scream your lungs out the whole time right?? im a bit shy/confused all of that... i wana know how hard you push and what that volume would be w/ out a mic please...

Merkaba
09-06-2004, 08:38 PM
Dude Merkaba, you are the man...I have been following these threads and I've been able to hit better notes that I want..I've even learned how to kinda scream like Axl Rose and not mess up my voice...you rock man, you should like get a "Posting" award lol...but to the point...Will my voice be higher pitch if i stick with these long warm ups and pratices? because I really want to have a high pitched barritone...is that possible?...and another thing how do i get my scream less raspy...I sound like I am murdering someone when I want a Emo Band scream lol...If I sing loud with my gut singing will that mess up my throat? I drink 5 bottles of water while praticing daily...since I am on the right track...My chords should be getting stronger right? Thanks for all your help dude, you're a musician life saver!

- Cody a.k.a Lead Singer
****, sorry, i must have missed this post. Well i cant tell you that your voice will get higher. You know that. but if its possible, you are helping yourself out by having good warm up and technique. Remember youre going to have to work out the cords and that means exercising. not just singing. but reaching and missing notes. so you need a place that you can do that comfortably so you dont tense up and use incorrect technique. IM in an apartment complex and if i hear someone upstairs you would be amazed at how much it just ruins my throat position.

If you want less rasp...
Well is this rasp coming from the throat or from the cords. if its coming from the cords then you need to push less because thats just pure wrong. You might be shifting your throat down and not knowing it. Just try to push less, most people overpush anyways. And remember youre going to have to experiment with how much cord activation you include in the scream in order to get some kind of style or tone youre looking for. so push less first to see if you can get the same tone. dont forget about isolation. when all else fails for me, i go back to the blank face robot and it helps me find out what im trying to do and what im doing wrong. singing a strong and or high note is way difficult to do without any movement. its a wonderful exercise to show you just how much our ideas and images of emotion just plain interfere with our vocal technique until we know otherwise.

Well if youre coming from the gut, you still can damage. you still can close your throat off. THe idea of coming from the gut is to get a constant tank of pressure that you can dispense at your own discretion. if you dont, then when you need extra force, you will tense your throat in an effort to push, when you dont have anything to push because you didnt pressurize you diaphragm first. so HOPEFULLY you will be getting stronger. remember that youre working out, so you will reach plateaus and weaknesses and have bad and good days. just remember that mucous can really fool you into pushing harder than necessary. thats why i warm up so long, to sing and vibrate away the mucous instead of blasting it away by cleaing the throat, couging or grunting with cold cords and muscles.

so just stay on the path. i must say that i grew alot when i started to push less....because if you push too hard youre just fatiguing the muscles more and damaging everything, so you spend resources on repair and potential weakness.... over time i realized that i was singing harder and harder cause i had gotten stronger over time. Just dont rush it. Theres nothing better than being able to keep your voice healthy.(knocks on wood after blasting his for an hour)

Merkaba
09-06-2004, 08:45 PM
i've been reading all your posts and practicing and i think i have it down to an extent... im a little bit shy when it comes to being infront of a mic though....

just how much do u hafta stress to get a good sound out of a mic when screaming?? i heard it allows you to slack off some and the sound is still fairly decent... but u dont wana scream your lungs out the whole time right?? im a bit shy/confused all of that... i wana know how hard you push and what that volume would be w/ out a mic please...

1. dont use the word stress, its a bad sounding word. hehe
2. the mic is your friend. get over it now if youre planning on singing. You can use it now to listen to all the imperfections that make you feel shy. lets face it, if you were sure you werent gonna miss anything, you wouldnt be shy right? so practice as much as possible until you got your voice down so well that you know its ins and outs, and that translates into confidence. Man, if you wouldve asked me like 7 years ago if i was planning on singing in front of people i wouldve laughed myself to death.

And sing acapella as much as possible. especially if you can record it with a mic. you will hear all of what you need to work on. And things you thought sounded bad may sound alright, and things you thought were dead on arent quite right. (**** that rhymed). Especially since you hear with your whole body when you sing. but when its played back to you, you hear what everyone else hears. I always sound dead on when i sing. when i record, i say hey, i need to work on.......etc. after a while you realize that its technique based so you just smooth out your breath and technique and it helps problems in general.

oh, dude, listen to my samples. On adobe audition(cool edit pro's new version) it shows your waveform as you record. when i do the falsetto screams the volume is off the meter! But im pushing at like 60 percent, if that. Remember , you have an acoustic instrument. all the other instruments are electrically amped up, unless youre doing a folk session by campfire or some shlt. So dont feel inadequate about having your mic up to its full potential. thats what its for. I mean if youre just too loud then you just adjust the output. but you should have a level to where you dont have to push much to do anything. alot of gain but not too much that you feedback easily. Again, deftones, mudvayne, linkin park, metallica, etc. touring all year long and doing like 5,6, or more shows a week! and these people have professional setups so they get it easier. now of course they still kill it though. i mean they are still shredding cords. but just not killing them.

for me, i've gotten it down to where i can project without pushing first. that comes from learning when to shift the throat and open it and drop the jaw and all this, plus i've been doing it a while, so by now, a 50% push for me is nothing but its still pretty loud, depending on the setting. usually i dont push hard at all. as time goes on, this has to increase though. so thats why you dont wanna blast at 90%. unless youre doing a 20 minute show! as far as working out it depends on how much time you have and what youre trying to work on.

SlapHappySunshine
09-12-2004, 03:38 PM
especially if you can record it with a mic. you will hear all of what you need to work on. And things you thought sounded bad may sound alright, and things you thought were dead on arent quite right.
Thats my problem though, I hate my voice when it's played back to me, I just cannot stand it. So I have to get my friends to sit still and listen to me, which is another problem because they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to singing. So would someone be willing to listen to my recordings when I get my mic and adapter on dmusic?

j0s1ah
09-12-2004, 04:23 PM
we will. ;)

Merkaba
09-13-2004, 01:16 AM
^^ yea, you wont be the first

most people who hate their voice sing with a high larynx. I'm willing to bet you do as well. you start to get some resonance in there and you'll like yourself more. I was the same way.

Idontknow
09-18-2004, 10:13 PM
Im Trying to start a band and there are very few people who are willing to sing where i live so i kinda want to learn how to sing/scream. I can get high and low notes and all but i cant seam to scream relly. i have read thies fourms quite a bit and tryed many things but i still comes out more like a whisper. what am i doing wrong? thankyou for the help

Edit:btw im a 15 year old male

Merkaba
09-18-2004, 10:37 PM
Im Trying to start a band and there are very few people who are willing to sing where i live so i kinda want to learn how to sing/scream. I can get high and low notes and all but i cant seam to scream relly. i have read thies fourms quite a bit and tryed many things but i still comes out more like a whisper. what am i doing wrong? thankyou for the help
you have to get "behind" the note, and feel like youre getting ready to sing it. more than likely youre squeezing your larynx and throat up in the attempt and its just not allowing enough air to activate the cords. check out the isolation stuff, and remember to feel like your going to sing the note. and like i say, you should be able to sing that note first. and sing it over and over again. practice hitting the notes hard first. not too hard. then you add the throat to get the rasp. if you can get a sample up it would help too.

Idontknow
09-20-2004, 08:22 PM
Ok, ill try that, i Dont have a PA "Yet" but i will soon so i was trying before hand. i kinda want to do a Finch/The Used type of scream. thanks Merkabab-1. ur the master

Edit: Im trying... it still comes out weak and to raspy... what can i do? ill get a sample up as soon as possable. it sounds.... too raspy kinda :confused: :confused:

IH8teYourEyes
09-24-2004, 06:55 PM
hey Merkaba-1 and others who can help.... i've been readin through these threads alot today.. I just found this site earlier.. Anyways I havent sang since 6th grade.. Im now 18 almost 19 and thing is i dont remember anything from choir.. Alot of my friends play acoustic/electric guitar, bass, or drums.. I have been playing guitar but my friends want me to learn to scream sing so we can start a hardcore/metal/screamo band.

Could you help me with things i need to learn. Like do I have to be able to really sing like kids do in choir to be able to scream sing? I printed the singing 101 breathing tips from this site and will be practicing those alot, i already breathe with my stomach going out so i dont really need to practice that but i will. Please anyone post things i need to learn and explain them and w/e else u can tell me, thx

music singing preference... i wanna have sing style somthin like AsILayDying or RememberingNever, Or Atreyu..somthin like that.. u can email me too that would be great..email is eatreyu182@yahoo.com

Merkaba
09-25-2004, 12:48 AM
its fairly simple.
all the stuff i stress
hydration
warm up
low relaxed larynxed, open throat
warm down.
no affect to the speaking voice
no pain

other than that youre just gonna have to practice singing hard, and getting rasp.
i cant stress enough the importance of learning to isolate. its vital and it allows you the freedom to come up with your own stylings and helps you work out the cords not stress them.

IH8teYourEyes
09-25-2004, 09:06 PM
K what exactly is rasp? Sry i dont wanna sound dumb but i dont know anything of singing anymore.... Anything u feel would be good for me to practice paste here or on my other thread i made cuz i couldnt find this one haha.. Like i printed that breathing tips if theres anything like that i can read that describes and is somthin u feel i should practice let me know.

Now I havent even screamed since i was like 12... I can lightly sing along with some of my fav metal bands but i dont scream the lyrics just use a quiet like whisper deep voice when driving. So should I try to scream like when I was a kid and get feel and practice to ulter it to right way.. Im still not sure how im to know this bounce of back of my throat or pull down on my throat thing. Sry if this is all confusing im about to leave so i typed it up very fast.. I am very serious about learning to scream sing and so im not here just to waste anyone time I really wanna get all info and help i can. thx

Merkaba
09-25-2004, 09:51 PM
if youre that serious you wont mind reading the begining of this thread, which takes you to some previous posts of mine. its a good read

IH8teYourEyes
09-26-2004, 01:35 PM
Yea ive been going through them :)

Merkaba
09-26-2004, 03:27 PM
rasp, aka scratch...its when you deflect the air off of the back of your throat. which is where you get that static like sound from when people scream. It doesnt and never should come from your cords. the thing is you have quite a few muscles in the area. so you have to learn to not pull all of your throat closed or push extra on the cords when youre trying to do this. this is pretty much the key to longevity and "screaming". dont forget that a mic with good settings makes any screamer sound that much better.

btoto
09-29-2004, 07:36 AM
Hey Merkaba, it's bad I don't have so much time to visit the forums..........I see you still rule :) If you remember I asked about raspy voice a month ago and singing like Cobain etc. blah blah blah............well, I you really did help me and I kinda learned to get some rasp (heh, one of the reasons I don't have so much time for internet....enjoying my singing :))..........Thanks to you again! :thumb:

But now some problems started to come out with my voice. After a month that I started to sing better, there have been some worsenings too.

Like, uhhhmmmmm it's been already 5-6 days that I started to have mucuous in my throat...........I read your topic about it and didn't quite understand if it's good to have mucuous or not. By the way, I watch my nutrition, don't smoke and don't drink.

Another problem is about pain in throat...........After you gave me a tip on singing from diaphragm I got rid of pain in my throat and felt much better.......But now it begins again, this time it's a bit different pain............I don't even know how to describe it. It's not in my throat like it was before.......you know not the part that hurts when you've caught cold...........It's somewhere in back and a bit up.......sometimes I even think it's somwhere in back of my head. :confused:
I couldn't describe better, I guess you know what I'm talking about...not throat itself but somewhere upper, like back of your head. It would be great if I know what causes it.

Thanks beforehand

Merkaba
09-30-2004, 03:38 AM
Hey Merkaba, it's bad I don't have so much time to visit the forums..........I see you still rule :) If you remember I asked about raspy voice a month ago and singing like Cobain etc. blah blah blah............well, I you really did help me and I kinda learned to get some rasp (heh, one of the reasons I don't have so much time for internet....enjoying my singing :))..........Thanks to you again! :thumb:

But now some problems started to come out with my voice. After a month that I started to sing better, there have been some worsenings too.

Like, uhhhmmmmm it's been already 5-6 days that I started to have mucuous in my throat...........I read your topic about it and didn't quite understand if it's good to have mucuous or not. By the way, I watch my nutrition, don't smoke and don't drink.

Another problem is about pain in throat...........After you gave me a tip on singing from diaphragm I got rid of pain in my throat and felt much better.......But now it begins again, this time it's a bit different pain............I don't even know how to describe it. It's not in my throat like it was before.......you know not the part that hurts when you've caught cold...........It's somewhere in back and a bit up.......sometimes I even think it's somwhere in back of my head. :confused:
I couldn't describe better, I guess you know what I'm talking about...not throat itself but somewhere upper, like back of your head. It would be great if I know what causes it.

Thanks beforehand
Well thanks for the compliments, and its good to see youre improving. and yea i remember you. an upper throat pain? well above your adams apple? it could either be muscular tension or the affect of blasting air over the back of the throat. but its a pain, not a discomforting annoying feeling, but actually like ow, pain? if it feels like its in the back of your head, it very well could be. you'd be surprised what people will inadvertently tense up. it could be muscle tension. I just cant make the call from here. i mean, you should be able to know if its in the throat. if it is you can push air to it, without sound, to hit the area and allow you to feel if its in your throat or not. if you cant find the area with air , without sound, then do it with alot of air and very little sound to see if its your cords. otherwise its muscle related more than likely.

as far as mucus...let me get this straight. you were find a month ago, but over the past five or so days the mucus all of a sudden starts to come around?

well, mucus can also drain down from higher nasal areas if you have allergies, or anything going on up top. just be sure to warm up good, and try not to clear your throat much. if you do, do it without sound. it could be just the amount of time it has taken for your cords to start to be stressed. so you might just now be trying to protect a perceived stress or damage by your body. just remember it can fool you into thinking you have to push harder than you do. usually when i have mucous i dont really get it totally away until i start to do some high rasp notes. but as long as youre doing rough work, youre gonna be getting some mucus. be sure to warm down at the end of the session, and if you've been going a while. keep singing lower and softer for at least five minutes after you finish practic/gig. then do eee's. its all about getting your cords to return to normal length. if they dont, they will bring in more mucous for the perceived stress/damage and the swelling that is occurring in the area.

dont forget that you dont always have to push from the gut for every note. some notes and vocal techniques you dont want a lot of push. remember you use it when you need it. and dont forget that you dont have to go up in volume as you go up in pitch.

keep us posted. good luck.

btoto
09-30-2004, 07:01 AM
Well thanks for the compliments, and its good to see youre improving. and yea i remember you. an upper throat pain? well above your adams apple? it could either be muscular tension or the affect of blasting air over the back of the throat. but its a pain, not a discomforting annoying feeling, but actually like ow, pain? if it feels like its in the back of your head, it very well could be. you'd be surprised what people will inadvertently tense up. it could be muscle tension. I just cant make the call from here. i mean, you should be able to know if its in the throat. if it is you can push air to it, without sound, to hit the area and allow you to feel if its in your throat or not. if you cant find the area with air , without sound, then do it with alot of air and very little sound to see if its your cords. otherwise its muscle related more than likely.

as far as mucus...let me get this straight. you were find a month ago, but over the past five or so days the mucus all of a sudden starts to come around?

well, mucus can also drain down from higher nasal areas if you have allergies, or anything going on up top. just be sure to warm up good, and try not to clear your throat much. if you do, do it without sound. it could be just the amount of time it has taken for your cords to start to be stressed. so you might just now be trying to protect a perceived stress or damage by your body. just remember it can fool you into thinking you have to push harder than you do. usually when i have mucous i dont really get it totally away until i start to do some high rasp notes. but as long as youre doing rough work, youre gonna be getting some mucus. be sure to warm down at the end of the session, and if you've been going a while. keep singing lower and softer for at least five minutes after you finish practic/gig. then do eee's. its all about getting your cords to return to normal length. if they dont, they will bring in more mucous for the perceived stress/damage and the swelling that is occurring in the area.

dont forget that you dont always have to push from the gut for every note. some notes and vocal techniques you dont want a lot of push. remember you use it when you need it. and dont forget that you dont have to go up in volume as you go up in pitch.

keep us posted. good luck.

Wow, you know your job...............I did what you said i.e pushed air without sound and now I'm sure..........yes it is my throat. I don't know why I thought it was back of my head :confused:

Ok I'll be frank with you. Actually all these problems with pain and mucus started to appear after I sang and played Nirvana's "Drain You" for several days, trying to sound like Cobain too much. Maybe this is the reason, but it's not that hard song.

Yes, mucus started to come around over last week. I mean, it's not it causes me so much trouble. And sometimes I even like..........because, you know that with mucus it's easy to get raspy and sound cool. But it becomes irritating while talking.............I know that it annoys people I'm talking to. I guess they think that I have a bad desease and going to die soon...lolz :D

Ok I'll try to sing lower for a couple of minutes after I finish...........well, actually I doubt I can do it. Let me explain the situation:

I do all the singing and guitar playing at home. But I do it when there's no one around. And it happens not that often. I mean I'm kinda ashamed to sing when my family is at home. So as soon as they leave, I pick up my guitar and start singing. And I don't do any warmups because I know that I have for example only 35 minutes, and I want to enjoy myself all that little time. :upset:

I guess now you understand me why I don't any warmups. Simply because I have little time for singing and I want to use it for my own songs. :thumb:

Also, if it's possible for you, can you please download Nirvana's "Lithium"? I want to know what Cobain is doing in chorus. The "Yeah Yeah Yeah" part. Because as it sounds to me, it's not screaming......and I don't want to scream, I just to be able to do that thing he does, it sounds to me more like an agressive singing rather than screaming.

Thank you :thumb:

Mike B.
09-30-2004, 09:29 AM
Hey. I've been reading through your posts and I've picked up lots of great tips about warmups, isolation, and rasping. Thanks for putting all of this out here! I have been singing since before I can remember, but I always find that my vocal cords get tired and my diaphragm never does. I have read in a few different places that proper breathing should be done with the stomach, and the chest shouldn't move at all. Also, also the shoulders should stay down. When I do this, it feels like I only have about half as much air in me as when I fill up my whole chest. Am I doing this wrong or will it get better with practice? Thanks for the help!

Merkaba
09-30-2004, 01:09 PM
well i must say dont overthink the breathing thing. but it is important. dont really tense up anything when youre trying or try hard to keep your shoulders down. just let them relax and they will not move much. However many people do breathe improperly and raise there shoulders and move the chest alot. your stomach should bellow out first and and your chest is still gonna move a little, but mostly at the end of a deep deep breath which you really dont need to do that much in singing. of course over time you dont have to think about this stuff so you can enjoy doing whatever you like while on stage, not having worry about your shoulders while doing death metal or rock would probably help out. lol

Chris-Bassist
10-01-2004, 10:15 PM
i really wish i had a good singing voice but my voice is always high pitched even when i try to sing normally...do you think me being 13 might have something to do with it...a reply would be most appreciated

CrazyDiamond725
10-01-2004, 10:58 PM
I'm sixteen and my voice is still squeakin on me. I made a microphone in an electronice clas in school and I taped myself attempting to sing on mt stereo. I never heard myself sing before. I was thought my voice was ok. Until I listened to it on the tape. I can't sing in key or anything. I think I'm just gonna stick to playin bass cause I suck at singing. I don't know if a cr*ppy voice could be changed, but if it can mines gonna take a lot of work. Would it even be worth it for me to try to sing, because my band has no singer?

CrazyDiamond725
10-01-2004, 10:59 PM
I'm sixteen and my voice is still squeakin on me. I made a microphone in an electronice clas in school and I taped myself attempting to sing on mt stereo. I never heard myself sing before. I was thought my voice was ok. Until I listened to it on the tape. I can't sing in key or anything. I think I'm just gonna stick to playin bass cause I suck at singing. I don't know if a cr*ppy voice could be changed, but if it can mines gonna take a lot of work. Would it even be worth it for me to try to sing, because my band has no singer?
Oh yea and voice is pretty deep too.

Merkaba
10-02-2004, 12:21 AM
i really wish i had a good singing voice but my voice is always high pitched even when i try to sing normally...do you think me being 13 might have something to do with it...a reply would be most appreciated
well it definitely does. before you go through puberty your larynx is smaller. this makes for higher pitched sounds. its like trying to get a low sound out of a flute. or a high pitch out of a tweeter. follow..?? So as you mature your larynx grows more and gets bigger which is what deepens your voice. this is why range is something that does have limits. your larynx size will play a very important part in range. Just keep practicing and singing. doing exercises and the isolation stuff. over time you will be developing a lot of flexibility in your cords as you keep them very active and stretching as your larynx grows. just remember to warm up, stay hydrated, dont over push and warm down. :wave:

Merkaba
10-02-2004, 12:30 AM
I'm sixteen and my voice is still squeakin on me. I made a microphone in an electronice clas in school and I taped myself attempting to sing on mt stereo. I never heard myself sing before. I was thought my voice was ok. Until I listened to it on the tape. I can't sing in key or anything. I think I'm just gonna stick to playin bass cause I suck at singing. I don't know if a cr*ppy voice could be changed, but if it can mines gonna take a lot of work. Would it even be worth it for me to try to sing, because my band has no singer?
just keep practicing and do the isolation exercises. if youre squeaking, i take it you mean breaking and cracking while holding a note. it either means youre not strong enough for that note or your air supply isnt steady. a high larynx will greatly diminish breath control. isolation!!...

and get a good mic first before you judge yourself, no offense on your handywork though. you always sound different when you hear yourself from a recording beause when youre talking or singing youre hearing with your whole body (especially your upper body) not just your ears. singing in key is something that just takes time through practice. however if you overthink it you can really make matters harder. hit a note on your guitar and try to do running melodies and scat and whatever as you play notes, or make extra melodies during your favorite songs. its really helpful.

Merkaba
10-02-2004, 12:46 AM
Wow, you know your job...............I did what you said i.e pushed air without sound and now I'm sure..........yes it is my throat. I don't know why I thought it was back of my head :confused:

Ok I'll be frank with you. Actually all these problems with pain and mucus started to appear after I sang and played Nirvana's "Drain You" for several days, trying to sound like Cobain too much. Maybe this is the reason, but it's not that hard song.

Yes, mucus started to come around over last week. I mean, it's not it causes me so much trouble. And sometimes I even like..........because, you know that with mucus it's easy to get raspy and sound cool. But it becomes irritating while talking.............I know that it annoys people I'm talking to. I guess they think that I have a bad desease and going to die soon...lolz :D

Ok I'll try to sing lower for a couple of minutes after I finish...........well, actually I doubt I can do it. Let me explain the situation:

I do all the singing and guitar playing at home. But I do it when there's no one around. And it happens not that often. I mean I'm kinda ashamed to sing when my family is at home. So as soon as they leave, I pick up my guitar and start singing. And I don't do any warmups because I know that I have for example only 35 minutes, and I want to enjoy myself all that little time. :upset:

I guess now you understand me why I don't any warmups. Simply because I have little time for singing and I want to use it for my own songs. :thumb:

Also, if it's possible for you, can you please download Nirvana's "Lithium"? I want to know what Cobain is doing in chorus. The "Yeah Yeah Yeah" part. Because as it sounds to me, it's not screaming......and I don't want to scream, I just to be able to do that thing he does, it sounds to me more like an agressive singing rather than screaming.

Thank you :thumb:
mmmm hmmm
well, i used to be in the same position. its really crippling i know. i used to have to do the same thing. however!....

you can keep your voice in a more ready place if you vocalize throughout the day. you can do low volume humming, or hum tunes or doing familiar songs or commercial jingles, just whatever. and do the lip flutter sounds like when you were little and playing with cars. do this with scales and stuff and try to keep the flutter going constant as you rise and fall. you will be able to feel the shift in opening the throat in order to keept the pressure constant. so you owe it to yourself to learn ways to sneak in vocal cord energizing throught the day. or go for a walk or a jog, this really helps warm you up, dont grunt though or make too many forceful sounds. you can do pushups and crunches or workout. you can sneak in alot of sounds then and noone will have a clue. Ya know, if they say we're getting ready to go to the store blah blah, you can start crunching or working out. now this will get obvious over time. but if you work enough you can have enough confidence so that you can at least do warm ups while they are at the house. Im 28 and still wouldnt feel comfortable singin around my sister, or much of my family. if you dont warm up you can expect only limitation and increase in harming yourself(hence the overprotecting mucus). its like running track, lifting weights, golf, bowling, anything.


Trust me, mucus is not gonna let you get the most bang for your buck. once you learn proper technique you'll look back on this post and say wtf? plus your vocie will get better tone and you wont sound like a zombie. have you checked out any of the rasp instruction posts and soundclips? its all a trick really of banking the air off of the back of your throat. theres not too many vocal effects you can do but pushing too much air is never one of them, especially in head voice. you might have been doing some fry which is when your cords just flap from the pressure. you need to look into the isolation exercises and keeping your larynx relaxed and not tensing up to get your notes. Theres a lot of muscles in the throat area. you need to work with seperating them. its like drumming. think how crappy it sounds if you cant quite seperate your foot from your hand. the greatest drummers have their brain signals completely split between limbs. great singers do the same.

When warming down go from your highest note down to your lowest like siren. do this a few times. or at the least continue to hum and vocalize...and do eee's . I'll check out lithium. i know i have that nevermind cd...it is on there isnt it? Im so happy, cause today i found my friends...etc? yea! yea! yea!. (now i want to go sing it, first thing tomorrow when i wake up! my fave was come as you are) i can already tell you most of what cobain does is just rasping off of the back of the throat, with various amounts of falsetto and head mixed ..which basically means more or less cord activation....closing the cords or opening them. THis is what everyone does. there's not much else! just takes practice to learn it without overstressing the cords. i might post a sample of it maybe. doesnt take a lot of push, not as much as it sounds! (especially with well warmed up flexible cords....ahem, hint hint)

work with isolation. once you can work with the cords alone you can pretty much take your pick as to what you want to sound like. the isolation thread has some stuff in it.

take care. and dont forget to sneak in some warming up from now on at least.

Chris-Bassist
10-02-2004, 01:28 AM
awesome thanks alot merkaba-1 helps alot

btoto
10-03-2004, 07:03 AM
mmmm hmmm
well, i used to be in the same position. its really crippling i know. i used to have to do the same thing. however!....

you can keep your voice in a more ready place if you vocalize throughout the day. you can do low volume humming, or hum tunes or doing familiar songs or commercial jingles, just whatever. and do the lip flutter sounds like when you were little and playing with cars. do this with scales and stuff and try to keep the flutter going constant as you rise and fall. you will be able to feel the shift in opening the throat in order to keept the pressure constant. so you owe it to yourself to learn ways to sneak in vocal cord energizing throught the day. or go for a walk or a jog, this really helps warm you up, dont grunt though or make too many forceful sounds. you can do pushups and crunches or workout. you can sneak in alot of sounds then and noone will have a clue. Ya know, if they say we're getting ready to go to the store blah blah, you can start crunching or working out. now this will get obvious over time. but if you work enough you can have enough confidence so that you can at least do warm ups while they are at the house. Im 28 and still wouldnt feel comfortable singin around my sister, or much of my family. if you dont warm up you can expect only limitation and increase in harming yourself(hence the overprotecting mucus). its like running track, lifting weights, golf, bowling, anything.


Trust me, mucus is not gonna let you get the most bang for your buck. once you learn proper technique you'll look back on this post and say wtf? plus your vocie will get better tone and you wont sound like a zombie. have you checked out any of the rasp instruction posts and soundclips? its all a trick really of banking the air off of the back of your throat. theres not too many vocal effects you can do but pushing too much air is never one of them, especially in head voice. you might have been doing some fry which is when your cords just flap from the pressure. you need to look into the isolation exercises and keeping your larynx relaxed and not tensing up to get your notes. Theres a lot of muscles in the throat area. you need to work with seperating them. its like drumming. think how crappy it sounds if you cant quite seperate your foot from your hand. the greatest drummers have their brain signals completely split between limbs. great singers do the same.

When warming down go from your highest note down to your lowest like siren. do this a few times. or at the least continue to hum and vocalize...and do eee's . I'll check out lithium. i know i have that nevermind cd...it is on there isnt it? Im so happy, cause today i found my friends...etc? yea! yea! yea!. (now i want to go sing it, first thing tomorrow when i wake up! my fave was come as you are) i can already tell you most of what cobain does is just rasping off of the back of the throat, with various amounts of falsetto and head mixed ..which basically means more or less cord activation....closing the cords or opening them. THis is what everyone does. there's not much else! just takes practice to learn it without overstressing the cords. i might post a sample of it maybe. doesnt take a lot of push, not as much as it sounds! (especially with well warmed up flexible cords....ahem, hint hint)

work with isolation. once you can work with the cords alone you can pretty much take your pick as to what you want to sound like. the isolation thread has some stuff in it.

take care. and dont forget to sneak in some warming up from now on at least.


Well thanks for great advices again. I checked the isolation exercises. I'm already working on them. Today my parents went to aunt's birthday and I stayed home to sing a little. But this time it was I feel Good by James Brown. Have you ever tried to sing his stuff? It's actually easy, there are only some tricks which take time. If you haven't sang his stuff yet, I advise you to do it. It's really challenging.

Also today I decided to take 5-6 vocal lessons with a teacher. Probably I'll start them in 2 weeks. In my country it's not so expensive. 1 hour of lesson costs 2 dollars. So I decided to take a few lessons of proper breathing. I guess that's all I need. :p

Uhmmmm..............It's kind of hard to ask you, but can you give me some more Cobain tricks? I promise I won't give 'em away :thumb: It'll be our little secret. :wave:

You know, there are a few vocalists I'm trying to copy before I find my own style. I'm already doing success with 2 of them. The first is U2's Bono and second is the girl from Cranberries........I don't even know her name lolz....I have one Cranberries CD and it's very easy for me to sound like her. Bono is a bit harder to copy but still challenging. The last one as you may already know is Cobain. He's the hardest singer I ever tried to copy. So it would be great if you give me some more help on him :wave:

Thanks a lot :thumb:

Merkaba
10-03-2004, 12:45 PM
Well thanks for great advices again. I checked the isolation exercises. I'm already working on them. Today my parents went to aunt's birthday and I stayed home to sing a little. But this time it was I feel Good by James Brown. Have you ever tried to sing his stuff? It's actually easy, there are only some tricks which take time. If you haven't sang his stuff yet, I advise you to do it. It's really challenging.

Also today I decided to take 5-6 vocal lessons with a teacher. Probably I'll start them in 2 weeks. In my country it's not so expensive. 1 hour of lesson costs 2 dollars. So I decided to take a few lessons of proper breathing. I guess that's all I need. :p

Uhmmmm..............It's kind of hard to ask you, but can you give me some more Cobain tricks? I promise I won't give 'em away :thumb: It'll be our little secret. :wave:

You know, there are a few vocalists I'm trying to copy before I find my own style. I'm already doing success with 2 of them. The first is U2's Bono and second is the girl from Cranberries........I don't even know her name lolz....I have one Cranberries CD and it's very easy for me to sound like her. Bono is a bit harder to copy but still challenging. The last one as you may already know is Cobain. He's the hardest singer I ever tried to copy. So it would be great if you give me some more help on him :wave:

Thanks a lot :thumb:
****, what country do you live in? jeez

Bono just has good cords. lots of control and few tricks. he's just talented. I dont know much about cranberries but i did like that song about In your head, in your head, they are fighting.....zombie zombie...and i loved that slow waltz deal they made , and i miss you when youre gone, that is what I dooooo, heyheyheyah... i used to love singing that song even before i really started singing. lots of falsetto for cranberries stuff...at least for me.
cobain is just rasp off the back of the throat. Theres nothing else you can do. its just a matter of trying to shape your cords to sound like his voice. but otherwise thats all there ever is..and then the usually used affect is rasping. just my usual posts. check out my sample if you havent.

btoto
10-05-2004, 08:00 AM
****, what country do you live in? jeez

Bono just has good cords. lots of control and few tricks. he's just talented. I dont know much about cranberries but i did like that song about In your head, in your head, they are fighting.....zombie zombie...and i loved that slow waltz deal they made , and i miss you when youre gone, that is what I dooooo, heyheyheyah... i used to love singing that song even before i really started singing. lots of falsetto for cranberries stuff...at least for me.
cobain is just rasp off the back of the throat. Theres nothing else you can do. its just a matter of trying to shape your cords to sound like his voice. but otherwise thats all there ever is..and then the usually used affect is rasping. just my usual posts. check out my sample if you havent.


Haha I live in an ex-soviet country (now independent)........so everything is cheap here because everyone's starving :p

Yeah I aslo like singing Zombie also a few other songs like Salvation.
I checked out your samples...........wow you can't imagine how much pain I felt in my throat when I heard you screaming. You definitely worked a lot on your voice. Great man, keep going :thumb:

And it's all there in the first page so I guess I can work on it.

Also, who's singing do you find harder? James Brown or Louis Armstrong? Yes, I know that you like Armstrong, but I guess James is good too :wave:

Merkaba
10-05-2004, 09:24 AM
Haha I live in an ex-soviet country (now independent)........so everything is cheap here because everyone's starving :p

Yeah I aslo like singing Zombie also a few other songs like Salvation.
I checked out your samples...........wow you can't imagine how much pain I felt in my throat when I heard you screaming. You definitely worked a lot on your voice. Great man, keep going :thumb:

And it's all there in the first page so I guess I can work on it.

Also, who's singing do you find harder? James Brown or Louis Armstrong? Yes, I know that you like Armstrong, but I guess James is good too :wave:

You mean as in harder to do? James Brown, and he sings way harder too if thats what you meant. I just mention louis all the teime because he gives the sound of rasp at a very low push and volume(sometimes), at least in that particular song. James just has vocal cords like steel i think.

btoto
10-07-2004, 12:55 PM
You mean as in harder to do? James Brown, and he sings way harder too if thats what you meant. I just mention louis all the teime because he gives the sound of rasp at a very low push and volume(sometimes), at least in that particular song. James just has vocal cords like steel i think.

Yes that's what I meant. I also thought James' style was harder although I like singing his "I feel good" :thumb:

Merkaba
10-07-2004, 01:25 PM
what about the big payback. listen to it if you havent. and try his screams and let me know if you can do that. if so, i envy you. I'm getting there but its a slow process. hehe

btoto
10-07-2004, 01:58 PM
Merkaba-1,

No actually I can't do his screams. Especially in "I feel Good". It's not that the scream is hard, but the reason I can't do is his vibrato. I mean I can barely scream, and in the same time I have to do a vibrato. This is what makes it very hard for me.

I'll check out the pig payback and give my opinion.

Merkaba
10-08-2004, 12:29 AM
hmmm. not really familiar with the screams in I feel good. I'll have to check it out.

yea i love payback. its kinda funny at the same time as being funky.
"look here...dont do me, no darn favors...I dont know karate, but i know karazor"...

and he screams after the music breaks down and they play a little riff. the riff is the "hit" that he is feeling, "hit me" bowmp bowmp, womp, chicka bowmmm...."heyy heyy HEEYYYYYY!!!" sounds like a mix of head and whistle. its strong whatever it is. mmmmm

btoto
10-08-2004, 02:29 PM
Wow yeah I downloaded that song...........too repetitive although funny as you said.

Do you mean the the scream somewhere during 07:01 ? It sound head to me. I won't try it now because my dad sits next to me right now reading newspaper. So maybe later. But yeah, I probably won't be able to do that :)

btoto
10-14-2004, 02:19 PM
God, I can't stop listening to your Inhale/Exhale scream Merk. :)

I'm not a screaming fan, but that inhale/exhale thing blows my mind. It's so great.

You can make money on that..........really, just record your screams and sell them for horror movies. :)

Merkaba
10-15-2004, 12:27 AM
.....hmmmmm......


thanks man! Now i do think most of them were at like three in the morning too. And i dont practice the inhale scream. maybe i should.

:thumb:

the_guy
10-15-2004, 09:57 AM
Merkaba-1, you rule! I've read mainy threads about screaming and I've always been trying to do it from the gut. Now that I've heard your screams and instructions, it seems way easier than I thought. The only problem I'm having now is I can't get a good volume on it. It doesn't sound full. I wan wondering if you could give me some tips. Also, I was wondering if the scream at the end of "A Decade Under the Influence" (by Taking Back Sunday) is done the same way.

Merkaba
10-16-2004, 12:59 AM
I havent listened to it yet..but i can guarantee it its. (unless its an inhale scream)

yea...just listened. its the same thing. I keep telling everybody that the cords cant really do much but make vowels! other than that its what you do after the vowel. That scream is kinda a mixed voice. a little bit of head and falsetto perhaps, which is quite common. He has a good bit of vocal cord involved with the sound. but i can get that exact scream he did with a good fifty to sixty percent push. I think anyone can. To repeat, it sounds harsher than it is...if you know what youre doing that is. same technique as in all of my posts so far. have fun!

btoto
10-17-2004, 02:36 PM
Hi Merk........I'll have to do it again. Another stupid question :) I'm really sorry, but I have to ask you.

Well I started taking lessons with a teacher. It's been only 2 lessons yet, but anyway. We were working mostly on breathing because she said I'll have learn proper breathing before we start seriously.............blah blah. What I want to say is about pain in my throat. I told her about it, but she couldn't really understand what causes it. She said: "There must not be pain in your throat because you're singing from your diaphragm, you don't even give much tence to your throat........so it's just not normal. I can't say what causes it because you are singing right and there simply must not be any pain"

So, she couldn't understand what causes it. But then she added this: "It could probably be because you were singing wrong when you started and you damaged your cords, if it is so, we need some time to work on it. After singing correct you'll get rid of it........just a matter of time, other than that I don't know any reason" (And yes, she is maybe right. I DID try to copy Bono and Kurt without knowing what is a diaphragm..........it was a few months earlier)

So, I wanted to know what you think about it. What could be causing this pain? Any suggestions?

To make this easier for you:

It's not a kind of pain that you have when you get cold. And it doesn't come up until I start singing.........I mean if I don't sing, I won't have it. Also, it's not that bad pain which tortures me to death. It's like when I sing, I feel my throat (or cords). A good example: When you have little toothache you don't have so much pain, but you kind of feel your tooth. The rest of time you don't feel that you have teeth right? So, same with the throat.

Sorry to cause you problems again :)

Merkaba
10-17-2004, 11:51 PM
come on dude...you know its not a problem.

anyways, I'm not gonna act like I'm going head to head with your teacher but just because youre coming from the diaphragm doesnt mean you cant be damaging your cords. I mean you actually have a big tank of pressure at your disposal with such. I say it is cord related. Yet on the otherhand i would probably guess its like she said. You might have damaged your cords a bit so that more isolated, proper energizing actually could be causing some irritation and whatnot to previous scar tissue. I would look for it to go away expecially with proper singing and instruction. and dont forget to warm down regardless of what she says or says about warming down. just make ee's throughout the day whenever you can. sneak them in! i do it all day. Course im singing and vocalizing all day, luckily i work in a moderately noisey/isolated plastic manufacturing environment. perfect for kinda goofing off and sneaking in singing time. and of course all the usual cord help stuff i say at the end of posts. good luck. And good to see that youre not tense and all!

chefbubble
10-19-2004, 03:25 PM
ok, I've got a question about singing at gigs. I tend to fall flat for some reason when I can't hear myself, and we've tried using an old PA as a couple of floor moniters which works alright (but for some reason we couldn't use an output to link the two PAs so I had to use two mics, which looked sort of awkward), and I've tried using ear plugs (which sometimes throws off my tone a little bit). Eventually I really want to get wireless earbuds, but they cost a whole lot of money everywhere I've looked. Do you have any suggestions?

Merkaba
10-20-2004, 03:27 AM
alot of people go flat from having tension in the throat. youre pulling the cords in proper relation to the notes you know you need, but the tension in the throat offsets the note by adding extra tension to the cords. its like playing your guitar string with a higher or lower bridge. you can make all the fingerings the same but the notes will still be off from outside influences. However it could just be simple hearing.

I have to stress the isolation exercises again. The truth is that you shouldnt need a monitor or need to hear yourself. it should be a feeling youre really after. It really is the truth. and its why some people can't sing as well with an earplug or with an earbud. But it is easier of course with hearing yourself but its ultimately like a crutch. practice singing your songs acappella this is just priceless to me and is like a pharmacopia cure all ...and practice isolation(voicehelp hotline sticky). your cords are your instrument. Theres no way around learning scales on a piano. no way around learning how to play your cords with no help. ya know.

chefbubble
10-20-2004, 04:53 PM
thanks dude

Merkaba
10-20-2004, 05:07 PM
no problemo....I also recommend practicing opera style classic singing. It really gives you the feel of how to pronounce the vowels and helps you keep an open throat. At least play around with it when you get a chance. do some of your songs in a classical acappella style when you can. It really helps. be sure not to squeeze the throat.

btoto
10-21-2004, 02:18 PM
Hey Merk thanks again.

I didn't sing much for last two days so to get rid of that pain. For 2 last days I did only your isolation exercises and eee's and stuff like that. So today I tried to sing a bit and I didn't have so much pain as before.........still I didn't sing as much as before only for 30-40 minutes........I did have some kind of irriating thing in my throat but it wasn't as painful as before. So, for a week, I'll try to do more exercises rather that singing.

And also, sorry for a noob question, but what is acapella? :)

btoto
10-21-2004, 02:47 PM
Also, 2 more things I forgot:

1) Today I had a thing in my throat I don't even know what it is. No, it's not pain. It's like a little ball there and I can neither swallow nor spit. It doesn't hurt but feels really strange. Although my mom said it's not a ball it just seems so. She said you might have got cold. But it does not hurt, it's strange because I've never had it before (P.S: it's not mucuous)

2) My teacher said it's too early to define my range (only 2 lessons) but it's definite that I start from bass to tenor (somewhere in the middle (higher that baritone if I'm not wrong)). A very good range on low and tenor notes she said. Though, according to her, my falsetto sucks.

Thanks for reading :)

shadedlife
10-21-2004, 04:51 PM
merk - a random question - do you have software/time to record 6 cubes?

Eitri Is Berserk
10-21-2004, 06:03 PM
I havn't looked through all of your posts or threads..but can singing well be taught? I know some people are naraurally good singers, but can that be taught and aquired at a later age? Skills go into singing, but do you only get better to a certian point? Or could you start as someone who can hardly sing and become a pretty decent singer? Sorry if you have somthing like this, havn't read them all..YET!

Merkaba
10-21-2004, 11:48 PM
merk - a random question - do you have software/time to record 6 cubes?

nah...i havent gotten anything yet. Plus i have some bugs..that **** Internet Explorer exploit thing was making my dialup internet surfing horrible. I might just wing it and try to download something tonight. I'm thinking about rebooting my whole comp. I'll see. But i havent forgot. I should have something really soon. cool that you ask!

Merkaba
10-21-2004, 11:57 PM
Also, 2 more things I forgot:

1) Today I had a thing in my throat I don't even know what it is. No, it's not pain. It's like a little ball there and I can neither swallow nor spit. It doesn't hurt but feels really strange. Although my mom said it's not a ball it just seems so. She said you might have got cold. But it does not hurt, it's strange because I've never had it before (P.S: it's not mucuous)

2) My teacher said it's too early to define my range (only 2 lessons) but it's definite that I start from bass to tenor (somewhere in the middle (higher that baritone if I'm not wrong)). A very good range on low and tenor notes she said. Though, according to her, my falsetto sucks.

Thanks for reading :)

Acappella means without music. just you.

I have no idea what the "ball" is. Do you mean you couldnt swallow it or spit it out, or that it made you unable to swallow or spit? because you wrote it as the latter. good luck with that.

Dont worry, your falsetto will get better with time.

Merkaba
10-22-2004, 12:08 AM
I havn't looked through all of your posts or threads..but can singing well be taught? I know some people are naraurally good singers, but can that be taught and aquired at a later age? Skills go into singing, but do you only get better to a certian point? Or could you start as someone who can hardly sing and become a pretty decent singer? Sorry if you have somthing like this, havn't read them all..YET!

i think that anyone can be taught well enough to be at a level where one is able to record a decent album. Now that might take alot of time, and it might not be the type of album you like. but im saying that anyone can be taught to sing to a very decent level. It might not be Bono or Plant. but everyone can sing. I think most of it is thinking too much. I reiterate that , to simplify, there are only six vowels your cords make. ay, ee, I, oh, uu, and ahh. (some sounds are mixes of one or more). The rest are consanants which are interruptions in the vowel sounds. If you think about it, it makes it simpler. the big keys are learning proper breath support, and learning to keep the throat open and relaxed while you make the vowels and shape them with the consanants.

So whatever category you fall in, trust that you can get better.

btoto
10-22-2004, 09:09 AM
Acappella means without music. just you.

I have no idea what the "ball" is. Do you mean you couldnt swallow it or spit it out, or that it made you unable to swallow or spit? because you wrote it as the latter. good luck with that.

Dont worry, your falsetto will get better with time.

Oh I do sing Acapella often :thumb:

Nevermind that "ball". It's gone already. But anyway. I meant I couldn't spit out or swallow that ball.................not food.

Thanks. I have 3rd lesson in 2 days............hmmmm can't wait :wave:

shadedlife
10-22-2004, 06:26 PM
alright man, i'll be waitin :)

Screamin_Demon_Auz
10-22-2004, 09:20 PM
That balls just your cords a little swollen up; it gives a feeling of gum or something stuck in your throat. Happens to me after I push to hard

btoto
10-23-2004, 06:07 AM
That balls just your cords a little swollen up; it gives a feeling of gum or something stuck in your throat. Happens to me after I push to hard

Exactly ! You explained it much better. Thanks a lot :wave:

Merkaba
10-23-2004, 03:09 PM
If youre getting anything like that, youre not doing yourself any favors technique wise. and at least be sure to warm down alot if you ever get anything like that going on in your throat. It couldve been the back of your throat, due to the extra air irritating the throat. You should be able to tell if its on your cords or no because singing or humming will be affected. or your voice.

btoto
10-25-2004, 08:17 AM
Last 2 days I had that irritating thing again. And I did lots of warmdowns. As soon as I start singing it comes again. I'm already fed up with it. Didn't know it would be so.

I guess that's all. I'm giving up singing.

Thanks for everything, Merk. I'll keep posting :)

Merkaba
10-25-2004, 01:15 PM
you should post a sample.

dont give up....pansie! lol

or go see the ear, nose and throat doctor

btoto
10-26-2004, 06:43 AM
I don't trust doctors here. They'll write all illnesses to me just to charge more money and make me spend hundreds on medicine.

1. What kind of music should I post? I mean, what do you want me to sing?

2. How to post?

luciferchrist
11-02-2004, 09:47 AM
I have noticed alot of singing related terms that are very unfamiliar to me, and probably many other people new to singing.

some examples: glisses, falsetto, solfeggio, head voice, etc..

Would someone mind pointing me to a resource where I can learn exactly what all these things are? Or better yet, someone well versed (merkaba-1, silver :wave: ) in these things can create a thread explaining all this terminology. Merkaba-1 and Silver (and some other, sorry I forgot you) have done a pretty fine job of doing this, and I find myself learning alot here, but there is still certain terminology I don't know what to make of...

thanks!

luciferchrist
11-03-2004, 06:57 AM
I am noticing that when I get to a certain point on some vowells (specifically ee and i) my voice starts cracking and I can't really produce the notes without getting some nasty gravelly tone.

Like if I am running through a C major scale vocally I will get something like. (keep in mind when I say clean I am saying the notes are comming out perfectly, as I am recording this stuff and they are perfectly on key)

C (ee - clean) D ( ee - clean) E (ee - clean) F ( ee - clean) G ( ee - starts breaking up a little bit, like I can't find the note, but still get it) A ( ee - can't find the note, voice breaking up like hell) etc

does anyone know why this is happening?

It only happens when I go up the scale, when I just start on an A, I hear myself harmonizing with it perfectly, I am thinking I might actually be harmonizing a 5th below, instead of hitting the note and this might be why it sounds in tune, but it is not actually an A I am hitting.

Is this a product of faulty breath control (to much or to little air going over my vocal chords)?

Merkaba
11-03-2004, 09:09 AM
How high up the scale are you when you start to break? pretty high? or mid ? and are you saying that if you start on that same note first that you can hit it? if so it could be you not having enough fleixibility to keep the cords in shape after coming from another shape, especially if its higher because the cords are thinner and theres less surface area for them to connect and form the shape for that vowel. And with practice there will be realizations of certain pressure changes you might need to make for you best sound. E's are the only vowel that makes the cords come completely closed as part of the vibratory pattern. So dont over push on e's. be sure youre relaxing the throat as well and not squeezing it as you go up in pitch thinking that these muslce contractions are part of the cord contractions. this is very very very common and could explain why you can start off on the note but not rise up to it. keep us posted.

luciferchrist
11-03-2004, 09:25 AM
How high up the scale are you when you start to break? pretty high? or mid ? and are you saying that if you start on that same note first that you can hit it? if so it could be you not having enough fleixibility to keep the cords in shape after coming from another shape, especially if its higher because the cords are thinner and theres less surface area for them to connect and form the shape for that vowel. And with practice there will be realizations of certain pressure changes you might need to make for you best sound. E's are the only vowel that makes the cords come completely closed as part of the vibratory pattern. So dont over push on e's. be sure youre relaxing the throat as well and not squeezing it as you go up in pitch thinking that these muslce contractions are part of the cord contractions. this is very very very common and could explain why you can start off on the note but not rise up to it. keep us posted.

dude this totally makes sense

I think I am trying too hard to push the sound out when I go up the scale. As I find myself searching for the note that fits, I notice that I generally try to put more effort into it for these specific vowels.

Yes, when I start on the note I can hit it, but not when I build up to it through the scale.

I can't even get a full octave with the EE, and I , but with other ones, like O, I can cleanly get out an 1.5 octaves up. So yes, I am pretty high up the scale when the notes start to break.. Like starting on low C, I can only get up to about G without breaking up and getting off tone.

BTW, as reference tones I am starting at the lowest C on my keyboard, which is a 64 key.

I am already noticing changes in my range through trial and error. For instance, a couple of days ago I couldn't get to a full octave doing the O, but yesterday I realized I might have been exerting to much air, so I calmed down a little bit, filled up my lungs, and tried pushing from my stomach slowly. I was then able to hit 1.5 octaves up!

So I think alot of this will come to me through trial and error, as I find the right amount of air to produce the notes.

luckily I am able to tell when I am on key and off, and that is being a big help. :thumb:

Merkaba
11-04-2004, 12:04 AM
yea, the higher you go, the thinner the cords, so less pressure is needed. practice doing glisses. Up and down. Start your lowest note and just slide up to your highest even through falseto. But try to keep the cords together for as long as you can before you go into falsetto. This helps you strenghten a little bit, but keeps you in touch with your break where you go from head to falsetto. Because you can get away with more push in falsetto but in head it can fatigue the edges of the cords.

So yea keep practicing and listen to your voice and pay attention to the feel as much as the sound. This is where you really can learn what to do with the cords. The feel and pressures of the notes. Technically you should be able to make any vowel at the same pitch . So do upward glisses and downward glisses. do them with each vowel and be SURE that you can do them without changing volume as you go up. This is very important. as it helps you learn isolation. you should be able to make it in a smooth slide with no interruption or loss of quality. It will take a shift in feel and pressure as you go to falsetto and coming down from falsetto. When doing a downward gliss, start in your highest falsetto and come down to your lowest chest. Work to keep it clean as you come from falsetto to head. And remember to relax everything as do it. Remember the cords are horizontal so youre actually pulling them across your throat, not up. this can help you keep your larynx low. I still use this visualization to help me alot.

luciferchrist
11-04-2004, 06:56 AM
yea, the higher you go, the thinner the cords, so less pressure is needed. practice doing glisses. Up and down. Start your lowest note and just slide up to your highest even through falseto. But try to keep the cords together for as long as you can before you go into falsetto. This helps you strenghten a little bit, but keeps you in touch with your break where you go from head to falsetto. Because you can get away with more push in falsetto but in head it can fatigue the edges of the cords.

So yea keep practicing and listen to your voice and pay attention to the feel as much as the sound. This is where you really can learn what to do with the cords. The feel and pressures of the notes. Technically you should be able to make any vowel at the same pitch . So do upward glisses and downward glisses. do them with each vowel and be SURE that you can do them without changing volume as you go up. This is very important. as it helps you learn isolation. you should be able to make it in a smooth slide with no interruption or loss of quality. It will take a shift in feel and pressure as you go to falsetto and coming down from falsetto. When doing a downward gliss, start in your highest falsetto and come down to your lowest chest. Work to keep it clean as you come from falsetto to head. And remember to relax everything as do it. Remember the cords are horizontal so youre actually pulling them across your throat, not up. this can help you keep your larynx low. I still use this visualization to help me alot.

I will definetely start doing glisses. I have been reading your other posts, and doing lots of research on singing, and voice in general. I actually realized last night that I need to keep a kind of decrease the pressure as I go in the direction from chest to head voice. I was actually able to get my I and E up a note past a full octave before it started comming apart.

I am still working on designing a very good plan to becomming a great singer. I must thank you again, because alot of the stuff I am using from the plan is comming from your posts

Rats
11-05-2004, 05:27 PM
Does coffee have any effect on the vocal cords?

Merkaba
11-06-2004, 02:17 AM
Oh yes. Now its something that might not be readily noticed, and depends on your style. But the caffeine is a diuretic just like alcohol. It makes you lose water. This is part of the reason why people drink it. Especially if you drink it first thing in the morning. Youre already dehydrated so you take in caffeine which makes you lose water. it pretty much offsets the water that makes up the content of the coffee. If youre dehydrated, it makes you feel icky and tired. So then people drink another cup for the pick me up of the caffeine, but once it wears off youre more dehydrated. The first place your body looks for extra water is the throat area. This is why you always hear "if youre thirsty, youre already dehydrated" common saying among athletes. or "if youre thirsty you needed to drink 20 minutes ago. It takes roughly 15 to 20 minutes for water to digest and get circulated to the cords. I mean moderation is a key if you "need" it. But overtime you could probably tell a difference between with and without caffeine. dryer cords leads to quicker irritation and swelling, which leads to quicker loss of range if not other worse things, not to mention quicker and more mucus.
Again, its a little nit picky and may not seem to be really that big a thing. But i have to give my best information that i can. The facts.

Apples are better for in the morning wake me ups.

Riovanne
11-07-2004, 09:47 PM
This question may have already been addressed in which case I missed it, but anyways: My chest voice and falsetto are both pretty solid (need to practice singing from my gut for the lower ranges, but that is easy enough), however, I am having trouble switching between the two without a definite "break". I haven't asked my choir director how to get rid of the break because I just haven't, if that makes any sense. My question then is what exercises can I do to "mesh" my chest voice and falsetto so that I can more easily switch between the two?

Merkaba
11-07-2004, 11:33 PM
Glissando
gliss. start at your lowest note (even if you dont have trouble down low, its a good exercise) and go up in pitch like a siren. one continuous slide at a regular volume. be sure not to affect the volume any as you do this slide. Then start at your highest falsetto and slide down to your lowest chest. Pay attention to the areas where you go from head to falsetto and vice versa. be sure to keep the pressure behind the cords from the gut and be sure you have a relaxed throat. Any tension will interrupt the airflow and stiffen the cords. over time you can find out your own points so you know where to shift to the next voice to have a proper note. Stay in tune with your body so you can feel when the cords naturally want to open up(going to falsetto) and close(coming down into head). YOu should be able to feel the difference. go more on that then sound and you'll do yourself a favor. Also do rising melodies staccato style. with a pause inbetween each note. This way you develop the muscle memory so that you automatically know which voice to use for the pitch youre singing when youre around the break. doing alot of glisses and quick runs on melodies helps you become more flexible so even if you start off in the wrong voice you can slide into the proper one. given that you have enough support behind the cords. (diaphragm). So relax while you do it, dont worry about the sound at first. And dont over push. especially as you get closer to falsetto. Hope this helps some.

luciferchrist
11-10-2004, 07:00 AM
2 quick questions


1. how long should one practice for at first? I have been trying to get in 1-3 hours a day. I noticed yesterday that my vocal chord area was feeling a little tender and slightly sore. I have been keeping them in exellent health otherwise, and my warmups are very thorough. Also I have yet to do anything with more than 60% push.

2. I am starting vocal lessons next saturday. Will 2x a month be good? they are expensive, but if it would help much more to do weekly I would do that. Also, my teacher is a female soprano classically trained singer. Will this help me alot in singing rock music, as I am a baritone. I don't know if this is like comparing apples to oranges or what...

Merkaba
11-10-2004, 09:28 AM
You'll have to figure that out. Your cords shouldnt get sore. Thats what I've been trained. some people say a little is ok. But i dont. Just be careful and listen to your body. Warm down as well. no affect to the speaking voice. THat means youre really swollen.

Any amount of vocal lessons will help. But dont be afraid to move to a different teacher after a while if you feel like your current one isnt helping you. It will take time though. It would help to get a rock oriented teacher. But you can still learn alot about technique. I would say do both. or try to.

btoto
11-10-2004, 02:53 PM
Merk, can you post some samples of warming down........you know, you were talking about warming down with eeeeeeeeeee's and etc. but they don't help me much. So I thought I'm doing 'em wrong. Can you post some warmdown samples? :)

Thanks again,

JuicyFruitGuy
11-10-2004, 05:40 PM
Hey Merkaba, I need some help finding a good harmony to sing.

The song My Sharona is too high for my voice... it's pretty much an F sang the whole song... so I'm looking for a lower note to sing in it's place. You mentioned something about this technique of singing a lower note in harmony with the original one if the original is too high. I currently sing the F an octive lower, but it sounds bad, and takes away from the song. What note should I sing, and how can I find good harmonies to notes in future songs?

Thanks a lot

Merkaba
11-11-2004, 02:51 AM
Merk, can you post some samples of warming down........you know, you were talking about warming down with eeeeeeeeeee's and etc. but they don't help me much. So I thought I'm doing 'em wrong. Can you post some warmdown samples? :)

Thanks again,

Well its not really something you would readily notice helping. Its just good to bring your cords back down to a retatively unstretched position before you call it quits. You start in your highest falsetto and then come down to your lowest chest. I do this with all vowels for about two minutes. Then i just do some low notes, and then regular eeee's. But how do you figure they arent helping you? are you keeping irritated or stiff mucus covered cords?

I'm having software problems but i'll try to get some stuff up soon.

Merkaba
11-11-2004, 03:00 AM
Hey Merkaba, I need some help finding a good harmony to sing.

The song My Sharona is too high for my voice... it's pretty much an F sang the whole song... so I'm looking for a lower note to sing in it's place. You mentioned something about this technique of singing a lower note in harmony with the original one if the original is too high. I currently sing the F an octive lower, but it sounds bad, and takes away from the song. What note should I sing, and how can I find good harmonies to notes in future songs?

Thanks a lot
I think it was sliver actually that was talking more about harmony. I was saying just drop the song a half step or a whole note. All i could say is to look into the triad like F,A,C. But if its a song that shifts keys or has some awkward or funny improvisation it will depend on what notes make up the melody. This is kinda getting intor music theory which i cant do justice to by trying to explain. I would bet that it would sound better and more authentic if you just dropped the whole song down so the intervals stay the same. I think it will sound off if you just do a note in harmony but noone is doing the root note. If noone is singing the F or the note in question then i would suggest dropping the song down.
Any one else have any opinions?

luciferchrist
11-11-2004, 07:28 AM
I think it was sliver actually that was talking more about harmony. I was saying just drop the song a half step or a whole note. All i could say is to look into the triad like F,A,C. But if its a song that shifts keys or has some awkward or funny improvisation it will depend on what notes make up the melody. This is kinda getting intor music theory which i cant do justice to by trying to explain. I would bet that it would sound better and more authentic if you just dropped the whole song down so the intervals stay the same. I think it will sound off if you just do a note in harmony but noone is doing the root note. If noone is singing the F or the note in question then i would suggest dropping the song down.
Any one else have any opinions?

I would say change the key of the song.

I find this really helps when doing certain songs that I just can't get my voice high enough to cleanly hit all the notes. For instance, I have my acoustic tuned to Eb, because I can hit the notes way better. I play this one song by Tears For Fears called Mad World. The song is in F#m, but I play it in Ebm - a whole 1.5 steps down! When I try playing in F#m, the lyrics come out okay, but they sound forced, however, when I play in Ebm, the song sounds good. I can create a good resonance with my voice, and I can stay in tune the whole song.

There are several songs I couldn't even dare playing without tuning down.

something else I am finding that helps is to sing a little lower, for instance, if you are singing a F chord, but can't hit it, try dropping down to the 5th below - C, or even the 3rd A. If it isn't working still, just transpose the song down untill you can find something in your range...

JuicyFruitGuy
11-11-2004, 10:38 AM
Thanks a lot for the help guys. :) I do tune down in other songs or change the chords to a key or so lower, but in this case, it would be a hassle to do for this song. I'll try out the C and the A and see how it sounds.

EDIT: I don't suppose this would change anything, but while I sing the F, a G is being played on guitar and bass, not an F to match the singing, as some people might assume. Would this effect the notes I could sing in harmony? Or would it still be the C and the A...

Rats
11-11-2004, 11:45 AM
Thanks a lot for the help guys. :) I do tune down in other songs or change the chords to a key or so lower, but in this case, it would be a hassle to do for this song. I'll try out the C and the A and see how it sounds.

EDIT: I don't suppose this would change anything, but while I sing the F, a G is being played on guitar and bass, not an F to match the singing, as some people might assume. Would this effect the notes I could sing in harmony? Or would it still be the C and the A...


I didn't quite understand what you said there

Just don't listen to the guitars

Diseasedcow
11-11-2004, 12:50 PM
Hey I got a question...

I've been trying to sing like AC/DC for awhile now, I always thought it was just a falsetto voice

I'm right, right? But It seems like he falsetto screams everything...I'm having some trouble in that area...

To explain how it's working out for me-
I can get at the same volume and note as him in all their songs, but when I attempt to add some rasp, my voice breaks in a sense. My voice becomes somewhat bubbly in sound...I'm probably doing something wrong, and I thought I should just ask you

Merkaba
11-11-2004, 02:42 PM
You should try to add more of a feeling of head and not just falsetto. Mix it. This is referred to as powerfalsetto. it should feel like youre singing both types at the same time. it will give you more support.

Think about adding rasp while coming down in volume. You might be trying to push more to help get the rasp. You should be able to rasp at lower volume as well if you have a relaxed throat. And it doesnt take much pulling to get the rasp. Whenever you run into problems backing off can help you find more of what you need to do. relax and come down in volue and push and try to get the sound.

BUt again, we know what can happen by trying to sing like someone else. Be careful. If you dont have enough experience to know how to get the sound, you need to ease into it. If you can hit the notes, theres no reason you cant rasp it. So keep practicing until you get it. just pull down a bit in the back of the throat and relax. if you dont already , put the tip of your tongue on your bottom teeth. let it relax there. rais the cheekbones. keep practicing.

Rats
11-11-2004, 02:59 PM
why do you wanna sound like ac/dc's singer anyways
he has one of the most unpleasant singing voices ever

Diseasedcow
11-11-2004, 05:35 PM
why do you wanna sound like ac/dc's singer anyways
he has one of the most unpleasant singing voices ever
In my opinion
Fixed :thumb:

Oh also, thanks Merkaba, I'll try out that stuff next chance I get.
I'm looking into vocal lessons, so I should be getting this stuff down soon enough.

denboy
11-13-2004, 03:19 PM
hey merkabalaba
I wanted to know how to get more body, in my screams? I mean... More bottom end.. Or something like that. My screams sound so empty.

http://s2.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=CAFD5E053442A8F8292A52094193799F here's a clip of my scream.. ... .. oh, and if it sounds like I'm doing something wrong, please do tell. hehe

The Shareef
11-13-2004, 04:15 PM
How exactly do you pull on the back of your throat to make the rasp of the fallseto screams? I'm not sure if I am doing it right, how much movement of the larnyx is natural and how much would be an indication that I am using my cords to make the rasp and not simply air?

Oh, and just for the record:

Thou kickest the, as they say, ***.

This topic has helped me realize that well I have been singing wrong and sucked at it in general but also that my vocal cords are sensitive little buggers that I need to take car of.

Thanks again man.

Los3rKid
11-13-2004, 04:42 PM
Hey Merkaba dude,
You have probable already said this a million times and im just to lazy to look for the post, but how do you sing through your gut? Right now i sing through my throat it sounds alright but i wanna be able to sing prople, cos right now i cant hold a note prople or anything, so if you have any advice on how to sing through your gut or any excercises to teach myself to do it that would be great.
Thanks dude...

Winter-seed...AKA b&h
11-14-2004, 03:28 PM
pro-ple?

Shadow18
11-14-2004, 07:22 PM
Hi , I am 13 and I have been interested in singing for a while. I have never been serious about it until now tho. My band wants me to sing while playing guitar , but i dont know how to sing that well. I been "trying" to teach myself.

If i post a clip of me singing a verse of two of a song and a scream do you think you can give me tip on how to make it better?

Merkaba
11-15-2004, 12:28 AM
You havent read this forum have you?
you should.
Because : 1. You would already know many different ways to work on your voice
2. you would know that you can post and get some help. :thumb:

sing naturally and dont try to sound like anyone in particular when you start off.

Merkaba
11-15-2004, 12:54 AM
Hey Merkaba dude,
You have probable already said this a million times and im just to lazy to look for the post, but how do you sing through your gut? Right now i sing through my throat it sounds alright but i wanna be able to sing prople, cos right now i cant hold a note prople or anything, so if you have any advice on how to sing through your gut or any excercises to teach myself to do it that would be great.
Thanks dude...
Well what if I'm just too lazy to rewrite it again? Hmmmmm???


Its one of the hardest things to succesfully describe. Dont overthink it though. You've done it before. Its simply using your diaphram to manipulate the pressure. If you cough or grunt youre using the same technique. Practice by taking a breathe in so that your stomach bellows out, your chest and shoulders shouldnt rise much at all, maybe a half inch at the end of a deep breath. Now slowly make an ssss sound. You should be able to hold it for at least thirty seconds. Practice making this into a zzzz sound. YOu can also feel as if youre getting ready to clear your throat but catch the pressure behind your cords. Now you dont need to push with that much intensity. But it is the feeling...THE FEELING of contracting the diaphragm....THE DIAPHRAGM.

WIth a little practice you learn how much you need for your singing and style. But its the feeling youre looking for. If you check out my samples i have a rasp lesson where i start off a rasped up falsetto scream and i remember doing the begining pressure a few times so that you can hear what it feels like, so to speak. you should check it out if you havent already. Again, once you learn how to use this it will still be easy, if not easier to overblow your cords. you will have TNT behind your cords and more of it. Be careful when playing with explosives. Once you get it down you will have alot of power, just dont abuse it. THe cords are always weaker than the lungs. Remember that. But dont be afraid of it either if youre looking to get stronger vocally. Your body is one hell of a machine if you take care of it, and it will give you warning if youre mucking it up.

Merkaba
11-15-2004, 01:16 AM
How exactly do you pull on the back of your throat to make the rasp of the fallseto screams? I'm not sure if I am doing it right, how much movement of the larnyx is natural and how much would be an indication that I am using my cords to make the rasp and not simply air?

Oh, and just for the record:

Thou kickest the, as they say, ***.

This topic has helped me realize that well I have been singing wrong and sucked at it in general but also that my vocal cords are sensitive little buggers that I need to take car of.

Thanks again man.
Its tricky. You will have to play around with it. Dont worry its not too foreign. You've done it before. if you take a regular push and pitch and try to snarl it like a dog. its the same thing. Now when you start to move up in pitch or learning to do it in falsetto verses head or chest it will take time to get an optimal feel because of the differences in air that pass through. too much throat and youre putting a cap of pressure over the cords which isnt good. this is why you have to have an open throat to get as much of a vent as you can when as youre blocking it off a little with the throat. And you will do yourself a favor if you get to where you understand the isolation of the cords from the throat so that you have an independent command of each. like a drummers feet and hands.

start in a mid chest tone and learn to rasp at a small push. this ensures you get the feel down more before you start adding extra pressure.

Merkaba
11-15-2004, 01:26 AM
hey merkabalaba
I wanted to know how to get more body, in my screams? I mean... More bottom end.. Or something like that. My screams sound so empty.

http://s2.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=CAFD5E053442A8F8292A52094193799F here's a clip of my scream.. ... .. oh, and if it sounds like I'm doing something wrong, please do tell. hehe
"Unfortunately, the link you have clicked is not available.
Reasons for this may include:

Invalid link
Use only the link that was generated by YouSendIt and mailed to the recipient. All other links will not be recognized. Please check to make sure that your email client did not break the link up over multiple lines. You may need to reconstruct the link manually by cutting and pasting all components into your web browser's address bar"

Merkaba
11-15-2004, 01:37 AM
Fixed :thumb:

Oh also, thanks Merkaba, I'll try out that stuff next chance I get.
I'm looking into vocal lessons, so I should be getting this stuff down soon enough.
by the way, what the hell is that in your avatar? :confused: :lol:

Los3rKid
11-15-2004, 02:33 AM
thnks merkaba dude
haha sorry bout me being lazy, didnt mean to sound rude

denboy
11-15-2004, 11:26 AM
"Unfortunately, the link you have clicked is not available.
Reasons for this may include:

Invalid link
Use only the link that was generated by YouSendIt and mailed to the recipient. All other links will not be recognized. Please check to make sure that your email client did not break the link up over multiple lines. You may need to reconstruct the link manually by cutting and pasting all components into your web browser's address bar"

Darnit!...They must've changed their system.

http://www.geocities.com/naijfboi/scream.mp3 Right click save target as

yes 70s r back
11-15-2004, 07:44 PM
i do like gutteral vocals.. like it burnt my throat like hell at first.. but i just kept going and the pain went away.. but is that bad for you? gutterals? and screamming? :confused:

Merkaba
11-16-2004, 12:56 AM
If it hurts your cords it's bad for them. The thing is you might have simply been hurting the back of your throat with all the air, and not the cords so much. It would still be wise to still read up around this forum.

Merkaba
11-16-2004, 01:14 AM
hey merkabalaba
I wanted to know how to get more body, in my screams? I mean... More bottom end.. Or something like that. My screams sound so empty.


ok the second link works.

Yea, you sounded like you were about to run out of breath. I think you'll agree. Thats because youre not locking the pressure behind your cords. if youre not doing that then it makes no difference if you come from the gut or not. You've got to close the cords up, produce the sound first, and let this air then reflect off the throat area. You've got the cords open more i can tell that by the way it sounds and its the way i used to try when i started out. I would say check out my samples and listen to me start up that rasp. you can hear it catch and lock....then you either activate the cords to release the air or pass out. the air is locked up behind the cords and should need to be vented, like a pressure tank with your cords as the valve.

denboy
11-16-2004, 06:15 AM
ok the second link works.

Yea, you sounded like you were about to run out of breath. I think you'll agree. Thats because youre not locking the pressure behind your cords. if youre not doing that then it makes no difference if you come from the gut or not. You've got to close the cords up, produce the sound first, and let this air then reflect off the throat area. You've got the cords open more i can tell that by the way it sounds and its the way i used to try when i started out. I would say check out my samples and listen to me start up that rasp. you can hear it catch and lock....then you either activate the cords to release the air or pass out. the air is locked up behind the cords and should need to be vented, like a pressure tank with your cords as the valve.

Thanks alot :).. I really don't believe in rep points, but if anyone deserves them, it's you!.. Hehe

The Shareef
11-19-2004, 06:59 PM
Y halo thar Markeba, okay I have another question.

I have the general feel down for a falsetto scream now but I get this obnoxious gargle when I do it and then when I finish it off there is some moisture at the base of throat but the rest of my throat is either dry or just fine.

Next, my throught hurts but that is possibly because I was doing it for well over two hours (stupid I know) and I didn't feel my larnyx move much so I assumed it was correct. I can still talk completely normal, but when I swallow there is a slight irritation (nothing really painful, just annoying and a little concerning).

So... yeah, if you can tell me what is going on with the moisture and the throat hurting. I am going to start warming up and down just to make sure this does not happen again.

Thanks again for the help! <_<

PS. The other post was extremely helpful and led me to the next step. I forgot to post a follow up one to thank you and I apologize for that.

Merkaba
11-20-2004, 01:44 AM
Well I dont do it for the thank you so you dont have to apologize.
But i appreciate the concern.

well the larynx not moving much is good, but the pain isn't.
I dont really know what you mean by the base of the throat. If its right behind your adams apple its your cord area and you need to back off. If its up higher its probably irritation to the soft pallet, the back of the throat. If its moisture from hard singing its mucus. Its basic purpose is to protect and or lubricate. depending on where it occurs. Here it would be both. I would suggest you take it easy for a few days. How is the rest of your singing voice? be careful and dont over do it. You wont gain any faster than your body can put up with because of the offsetting damage done. However big or slight it may be.

jhaatwt411
11-20-2004, 07:12 PM
I need help singing(duh)... when i sing the notes in my head, they sound right, but when i listen to them in 3rd person (like a recording) they sound horribly off... i would really love to become a singer because it seems amazingly fun and really cool(cool way to get girls haha)i would also look cool playing guitar and singing at the same time... and i would get friends(maybe??)...
If you could help me thanks..

Merkaba
11-20-2004, 09:12 PM
I need help singing(duh)... when i sing the notes in my head, they sound right, but when i listen to them in 3rd person (like a recording) they sound horribly off... i would really love to become a singer because it seems amazingly fun and really cool(cool way to get girls haha)i would also look cool playing guitar and singing at the same time... and i would get friends(maybe??)...
If you could help me thanks..
:lol: yea it can get some female action stirred up. Especially if youre a lead singer. And it is fun to me, and i like expressing my emotions and ideas in a constructive way. Im very much at home singing, and when youre confident it helps....alot! So you need to just practice and learn. You can always take some lessons ya know!

You should read all of my replies and click around and read the questions and answers. You could be over pushing and or blocking your throat and air. And all this or any combination of this and tension can throw off what your vocal cord muslces get in relation to what your brain sends. just learn to relax and practice humming along with singin at a regular level, so you learn to keep the cords buzzing together, and its eaiser to relax when you hum. Play a not or progression on the guitar and sing along with it. youre gonna have to practice staying in key with various pushes and consanants ,while keep the throat relaxed.

jhaatwt411
11-20-2004, 09:30 PM
:lol: yea it can get some female action stirred up. Especially if youre a lead singer. And it is fun to me, and i like expressing my emotions and ideas in a constructive way. Im very much at home singing, and when youre confident it helps....alot! So you need to just practice and learn. You can always take some lessons ya know!

You should read all of my replies and click around and read the questions and answers. You could be over pushing and or blocking your throat and air. And all this or any combination of this and tension can throw off what your vocal cord muslces get in relation to what your brain sends. just learn to relax and practice humming along with singin at a regular level, so you learn to keep the cords buzzing together, and its eaiser to relax when you hum. Play a not or progression on the guitar and sing along with it. youre gonna have to practice staying in key with various pushes and consanants ,while keep the throat relaxed.

Thanks very very much... and also... sometimes getting/staying in key for me is hard because im not exactly sure what i sound like... even if it sounds right to me in my brain, its not really on key, so any suggestions for that?

Merkaba
11-22-2004, 12:43 AM
That just takes pratice. i still do it more than i like. But you just have to train yourself if youre not a "natural" at it. practice singing accapella. Theres not much better. pick a song you already know or have trouble with and sing it accapella until you get it down. Dont forget to keep the throat relaxed, like i said , tension can cause inorrect notes as well. Tell yourself its hard to sing off key if you stay relaxed. And get a way to record yourself singing as much as often.

jhaatwt411
11-22-2004, 03:40 PM
not to be stupid or anything... but whats acapella??? heh :-/

Merkaba
11-23-2004, 01:54 AM
^ no music

jhaatwt411
11-23-2004, 06:59 PM
ohh okey dokey, thank you soo much for your help

KKKKKocaine
11-29-2004, 11:32 AM
There is a guy at my college who has been singing orchestrally stuff for many many years now.
He's looking to teach a few people for free, Now singing a melodic rock style, Would he be able to teach me anything that could be cross applied to rock or would it be mostly useless to me?

Merkaba
11-29-2004, 10:15 PM
to me...for free..i would at least see how he is. LIke i said, he might say or show one thing that could open up worlds for you. Then again he might not. Why risk it though? I dont think you'l be singing super hard all the time right? So i would at least look into it. Maybe ask him this same question.

poormorris
12-04-2004, 03:05 PM
A while back you talked a little about powerfalsetto. could you tell some more about how to do it please. If anyone has seen the movie Elf, i think it is what Will Farrell uses this one part where he screams "Santa!" really loud, is that right?

CrazyDiamond725
12-09-2004, 08:13 PM
I tried your excercises and I don't know if they've helped. I can't really hear myself and still don't know if I'm breathing the right way. But I got a chance to take singing lessons for free. No one else in my band wants to sing, and I'm probably the least able but I'm willing to make that jump to get my band started because we don't have a singer. Anyone think its worth it to pursue singing even though I'm gonna have to play bass and sing kinda McCartney style except with a not so good a voice?

poormorris
12-11-2004, 01:33 PM
yes

sleepy1212
12-13-2004, 11:49 PM
I just read the 'mucus' threads. Good stuff my friend. I have drainage problems myself; I smoke cigs and weed. I cut back on weed a few years ago which helped my breathing and control tremendously (even though marijuana smoke is an abuterant it didn't help at all). I recently cut back on cigs too :thumb:

I've pretty much got rasp handled and i decided to move on to some screaming. I do one scream now..in one of our ska songs haha..just for starters. So far so good. I read your tips on screaming. Funny thing is you mentioned Louis Armstrong. Before I read your post on the subject i was demonstrating proper growl to my bandmates by singing "when your smiling". They thought it was hilarious that I could sound like that.
We do a lot of covers for certain gigs and I do vocals by Tim Armstrong, Gavin Rossdale, Bradley Knowel, and others who use some rasp in one form or another.

One thing I picked up when I did vocal training several years ago was that even diva-type singers can growl if they want.

I do have a question:
Sometimes I get a real workout in practice or at a gig. My gut hurts, around my back, diaphragm, and towards my chest. When this happens in the middle of a set, is there a chance that I can hurt my singing in the future if I keep singing for the rest of the night?-or is this just more of a feel-the-burn type of thing?

Merkaba
12-14-2004, 01:51 AM
:thumb:
yea, somebody gets the Louis armstrong thing! And yea, I agree, any type of singer can growl.

So how long is this practice workout? I would just say its due to tension. Now if your throat hurts....thats when you should start worrying. The only thing is that if youre getting that kind of upper body feeling, you might be tensing the cords as well. It could be anything, since you smoke! plus style, stance, postures, etc...those type of things. NOt to mention that smoking anything makes your muscles tense and blood pressure rise...it all plays a part. I wouldnt worry about it, but i would try to ease it. Like i say, when singing, everything you do should be comfortable ya know. Theres no reason why you cant do 2 hours or more without feeling anything hurt. Pain means somethings wrong. Try variations to see if you an pinpoint causes.

robman304
12-17-2004, 07:01 PM
Hey Merkaba. I've been looking through the forums and all of the singing stuff and I've seen you've heard this a million times but you're a genius dude lol. I wanted to ask you something though, lately I've been doing a bunch of acoustic demos because my band broke up. My voice was alright but nothing fancy when I was in the band but when I got in my friends home studio I started singing with his ovation and his jaw dropped and even I believe it sounded really really great...he kept asking me "why didn't you sing like that in the band?" and it got me to wondering...I try just as much in the band and when I'm by myself with an acoustic, but I can never feel that kind of response and ring that my voice has with an acoustic. I've heard people say things like "ohh I don't play with band anymore because an acoustic matches the timbre of my voice." Is that being realistic? Is there any way to make my voice sound as good with the band as it does by myself? I'm 14 but I've pretty much undergone all of my voice changing. I've been singing for about 3 or 4 years seriously, so it's relatively strong. I apologize for the length of the post lol but I would appreciate any type of feedback. You are my idol man(listened to those demos)...Rob.

Merkaba
12-18-2004, 01:55 AM
1. Those demos are shlt! hehe. no, really! I'll have some more up soon.
2. dont apologize for the length of a post. its all communication. Look at my posts!

i wouldnt really say that you've gone through all of your voice changing at 14...I mean, its not quite likely. It could be the case....but statistics say youre gonna have a few more. But singing through them is the best thing. If you learn to sing hard through them you will have a good set up because at 14 your hormones are like hurricanes. I would suggest you do vocal workouts if for no other reason than just to have the capability. Of course dont hurt yourself.
For me, there is nothing like singing along withe an acoustic. Nothing. So much so that i want to do a seperate project for lighter type of music and one for heavier stuff....because I'm just a different animal between the two. The acoustic's resonances is right there in your own bubble...its hard to sing any off note, plus the guitar istelf is vibrating your body more. I think its all part of why alot of guys like to do softer music. REalistic? well its just a matter of what you want to do. I want to do both eventually. But there is definitely a science behind the difference of singing to an acoustic and singing to electronically reproduced and altered replicas of acoustics, i.e. electric. Its just up to you. Keep on practicing and stuff and you'll develop your own path/paths, capabilities, etc.

i'm_soooo_emo
12-20-2004, 11:02 AM
is cannabis smoking bad for the throte? I smoke both skunk and resin and i smoke it in bongs, bukets, defies and occasionally pipes. I dont smoke joints to often as i dont enjoy the taste of tobacco. I am a singer in a band and i dont want to screw my voice up. Obviously i aint gonna completely quit, but i will keep it to a minimum. And also if there is anyone who knows about this stuff, is any way of smoking it that is less bad on the throte?

i'm_soooo_emo
12-20-2004, 11:18 AM
Oh also, i did a gig on Friday and when i sing i think i put way to much pressure on my voice. Anyway, when i woke up the next morning i had a sore throte. DO you think this is down to how i'm singing. When i actually scream it doesnt hurt and i think i actually know how to scream. But when i sing i kind of put on a rasp and i think thats whats doing my voice in. It doesn't hurt when i'm doing it, but i get really out of breath and my chest hurts. Any ideas. I'm a 16 year old male btw and my voice has broken but i dont have a deep voice. I sing like emo/post hardcore kind of stuff.

Teri Jo
12-20-2004, 12:22 PM
You know, I don't know anyone that completely likes their own voice. I used to cringe every time I heard mine. But in order to improve, you have to get past that.

I recorded what I did on a simple little tape recorder, and back then it was me acapella or me and my guitar, no effects, no nothing! But what you're listening for is NOT how wonderful you sound. You're listening for what you are doing wrong. I did this a LOT when I was learning how to do harmony.

I had to learn to quit saying "THAT"S AWFUL! and start looking for what wasn't working. And everyone I've sung with loves the way I harmonize, so it must have worked. You have to get used to hearing your own voice.

As to the screaming part, I can't help you there, I'm afraid. I sing Classic Rock and Country, not a lot of screaming I have to do!

Teri Jo

notchops14
12-24-2004, 11:18 AM
Hey, I haven't seen this topic really go into detail, so is there some special technique to death metal singing? As in Opeth, Morbid Angel, etc?

Also, what is an inhale scream? Listen, if you've already written this stuff down, merkaba, just give me a link and I'll ask questions from there.

For your information I am a 14-year-old male with no privacy or vocal experience, and I am not interested in clean singing as much as I am in achieving a death/black metal-type of voice without ruining my range.

Levitate
12-25-2004, 10:50 AM
is cannabis smoking bad for the throte? I smoke both skunk and resin and i smoke it in bongs, bukets, defies and occasionally pipes. I dont smoke joints to often as i dont enjoy the taste of tobacco. I am a singer in a band and i dont want to screw my voice up. Obviously i aint gonna completely quit, but i will keep it to a minimum. And also if there is anyone who knows about this stuff, is any way of smoking it that is less bad on the throte?
No. Why? because it depletes capacity of the lungs. you will be short breathed. I guess putting ice cubes inside the bong may keep you from burning your throat from the hot smoke, but smoking is a nono for singers

I stay off the drugs, I need brain cells for work, and don't want the law up my ying yang!

UnderDawg
12-26-2004, 01:15 AM
I need some serious help with my vocals.

http://theinsurrection.net/syn/

It's under Cold and Ugly2.

Merkaba also if you have AIM or MSN PLEASE give that to me...I have no vocal teacher and really need some hands on instruction.

AIM- BetweentheEchoes
MSN- ender_wiggin550@hotmail.com

luciferchrist
12-28-2004, 09:43 AM
No. Why? because it depletes capacity of the lungs. you will be short breathed. I guess putting ice cubes inside the bong may keep you from burning your throat from the hot smoke, but smoking is a nono for singers

I stay off the drugs, I need brain cells for work, and don't want the law up my ying yang!

I would say that is a subjective opinion left to the individual who is actually smoking.

One could argue that Frank Sinatra was a great singer, but also a heavy smoker.

Look at Aaron Lewis...the dude smokes cigarrettes and is a self proclaimed pothead. He was stoned off his *** for his MTV unplugged performance, and I would say that was quite the beautiful performance.

and yes, I smoke pot.

I notice that my singing abilities decrease when I am blazed, which I finally realized was from the paranoia more than the pot.

When I am blazed off my *** nothing feels better then lighting some incense and candles, and picking up the acoustic and letting go. When I do this I can usually go to that "place" where it is just the music and I am not thinking about my neighbors hearing me...

I would say that to extent it is definetely detrimental to singing abilities in the long term, as smoking any thing would be, but I wouldn't worry about it as much as every else seems to...

If you worry about it too much, but continue to smoke, you need to be careful as making the though enter the realm of conscious thought could induce a self fufilled prophecy...

Pushead_Metal
01-04-2005, 05:30 PM
I read some of the guides on screaming and they don't quite answer the question I need to have answered. When I was 14, my favorite band was Linkin Park. Chester Bennington could scream like I heard no other person scream before. Of course I practiced it and what do you know? A month later I sounded about 95% like him. I enjoyed singing.

Then the age of 15 hit and the voice changes started taking its toll. I lost my ability to sing Chester Bennington. I had to find a new favorite band and my favorite band is now Metallica.

I am now 17 and sound a bit like James Hetfield when I scream. But I want to know, is there any possible way I can get Chester Bennington like sound back into my voice? Or should I just give up, accept the way my voice is, practice like hell, and just hope to God I'll make it somewhere?

TheOneThatBleeds
01-04-2005, 05:40 PM
i was wondering if anyone ever used vocal release with eric frey? i was thinkin about gettin it but i wanted some imput from other ppl that have used it b4. please help me out here.

The Spliggity Splot
01-11-2005, 07:31 PM
Just wanted to thank you merky. I posted my singing on the audio arena a few months ago and everyone said I sucked, and now everyone says i'm really good....thanks a bunch:D

DougJI
01-13-2005, 10:53 PM
I have a concern about my throat, / back of my mouth.

I was being my crazy self watching myself sing in the mirror, when I noticed, something weird. Next to the dangling thing at the back of my mouth, is a tiny flap of skin. I don't when it was there, I remember it being there before, however, it was smaller as I recall. I am concerned about whether or not it could flatten or sharpen notes, add or detract from my rasp, or just mess up my singing. Or is it nothing to be concerned about? If necessary, I will post pictures (ew). IF anyone wants I could pop up a couple recordings of me singing rasp, no rasp, I can almost do immigrant song, fairly good at ACDCish kinda singing. I *Want* to sing Nirvana and I can do a lot of their songs pretty close to the way Kurt sang them.... but I am more concerned about this flap....

Wang Hung Lo
01-13-2005, 11:05 PM
I have a concern about my throat, / back of my mouth.

I was being my crazy self watching myself sing in the mirror, when I noticed, something weird. Next to the dangling thing at the back of my mouth, is a tiny flap of skin. I don't when it was there, I remember it being there before, however, it was smaller as I recall. I am concerned about whether or not it could flatten or sharpen notes, add or detract from my rasp, or just mess up my singing. Or is it nothing to be concerned about? If necessary, I will post pictures (ew). IF anyone wants I could pop up a couple recordings of me singing rasp, no rasp, I can almost do immigrant song, fairly good at ACDCish kinda singing. I *Want* to sing Nirvana and I can do a lot of their songs pretty close to the way Kurt sang them.... but I am more concerned about this flap....

Post it all!

DougJI
01-14-2005, 10:28 PM
Post it all!
*warning* No sensitive viewers please. Note that I am not posting this to be disgusting, but out of actuall concern for my voice.

http://www.s92456452.onlinehome.us/throatflap.JPG
It doesn't seem extremely large in this picture, but it was because of the way I had to stretch my mouth to get a decent picture. It gets slightly larger, 1/16 of an inch larger about.

Recording.
http://www.s92456452.onlinehome.us/singing%20sample%201.wma
I am aware that TNT is not sung like that, but I was displaying the rasp.

Little about me....
Im 14, so I am aware my voice probably isnt done its changing... I haven't taken any singing lessons, but I;ve been buzzing aroudn the Jam session going through merkabas stuff. I'm not sure I'm doing everything correctly. I'm in a "band" which is having trouble getting off the ground. I wanna play Nirvana kinda stuff, the other guitarist wants to play Zeppelin, or Hendrix/ACDC kinda stuff, which I dont have a problem with, and our drummer is a natural, but lazy. We don't have a bassist, and the other guitarist refuses to play bass. So we have two guitarists, and a drummer. I have trouble playing and singing at the same time, though a lot of Nirvana songs are easy to get the hang of. The worst problem with the band however is the lack of a vocalist mic/amp set up.... So I usually end up yelling over whatever were playing. Bad idea... but they won't be cajoled into buying a vocalist mic..... Ugh. Anyways, I only ever smoked pot, and that was only for a couple months during a rough patch, and I wouldn't be Canadian if I hadn't :P. Anyways, what do you guys think about the flap and my singing.

Thanks, Doug

DougJI
01-15-2005, 05:04 PM
Bump

Can I get some answers about this, I really am rather concerned...

Rats
01-15-2005, 06:27 PM
Your TNT attempt was more disgusting than the flap :thumb: Just go see your doctor or something.

DougJI
01-15-2005, 07:12 PM
Your TNT attempt was more disgusting than the flap :thumb: Just go see your doctor or something.

Figured that.

I am trying to not go to some crappy doctor who will tell me "not to worry about it" or will suggest I get it cut off, wihtout knowing anything about singing....

MCMLXXXV82
01-31-2005, 06:18 PM
can you help me with my screaming because in my band im supposed to scream like alow scream, kinda like chimaira or slipknot or something that sounds like that, cuz that would help me and my band.

SevenDeadlySins
01-31-2005, 06:23 PM
you can suck my weiner!!!!!!!!! oooo you no youd like that!!!!!
no but you better learn or else ill just do it ooooo you no i had you goin little britches

MCMLXXXV82
01-31-2005, 06:25 PM
so immature

deadlikeme222
01-31-2005, 09:16 PM
ive tried every thread on this site, i try to develop my scream but it still comes out like s***, it sounds like someones stepping on a duck. One thing still seems fuzzy to me, some guys on here to say and scream with ur falsetto, while others say scream with ur full.... which one is it
help

Shadows
02-01-2005, 04:30 PM
Can anyone give tips on deep, death metal growling (Cannibal Corpse, later Opeth, etc)? I've been keeping my voice as deep as it can go and pushing from the gut, but all I get is this weird raspy type sound that sounds like a dog with a serious headcold.

Sorry if this has been answered, but the search isn't working and I don't want to read 7 pages right now.

robman304
02-02-2005, 02:49 PM
Whenever I play acoustic my voice is strong and it sounds good and I can hear myself very well. But when I play in a band (usually the same exact kind of acoustic material, just with some electric lead and drums obviously) I can't sing half as well as I can acoustic. Any advice? Should I do more power singing exercises or something? Thanks.

SevenDeadlySins
02-02-2005, 07:17 PM
maybe you're just not confident enough and youre thinking about it to much when youre playing with the rest of the band.

Merkaba
02-03-2005, 01:17 AM
Figured that.

I am trying to not go to some crappy doctor who will tell me "not to worry about it" or will suggest I get it cut off, wihtout knowing anything about singing....
I wouldnt worry about the flap. You'll know if it is interfering with your health. Its pretty much out of the way of any singing and could only give you some kind of distortion without the stress which would be a good thing. I dont see it doing anything at all. its too small. BUt if youre worried go see a doctor. Hell as far as we know it could be a cancerous lesion. So keep an eye on it.

As far as singing...yea the tnt was ....uh...interesting, in a small gnome kinda way. hehe. Practice learning how to support with the diaphragm and you can get about a 100% better in anything. Check out my samples if you havent........http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911

MCMLXXXV82
02-03-2005, 05:05 PM
how do you grunt scream?

Merkaba
02-04-2005, 03:34 AM
What is that?
If it involves the word grunt then its unhealthy anyways. :p

DougJI
02-05-2005, 12:28 AM
I wouldnt worry about the flap. You'll know if it is interfering with your health. Its pretty much out of the way of any singing and could only give you some kind of distortion without the stress which would be a good thing. I dont see it doing anything at all. its too small. BUt if youre worried go see a doctor. Hell as far as we know it could be a cancerous lesion. So keep an eye on it.

As far as singing...yea the tnt was ....uh...interesting, in a small gnome kinda way. hehe. Practice learning how to support with the diaphragm and you can get about a 100% better in anything. Check out my samples if you havent........http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911

I buzzed through them before, but I never really tried it or anything. A practice session I was able to squeeze in tonight however has convinced me otherwise. I tried full screaming, rasps, (I warmed up and down) using the methods you posted and it was an unbelievable difference. I cant really do the high stuff with the low larnyx, but holy crap can I scream like that. Unfortunately my mic has gone, so I wasn't able to record anything, but I loved the way I sound. Is it normal for your singing voice to be lower then your speaking voice and also, is falsetto sung with a high larnyx?

The only thing I'm having a little bit of problem with is co-ordination of the diaphram and the vocal chords isolation/larnyx dropping, but I s'pose that will come with practice...
I'll post a new recording soon as I get my mic working (man I wish I had a PA set up so I could sing and play at the same time properly) Thanks Merkaba

Edited to add: Yes I sounded like a munchkin in that recording.. 6' tall and I have a highish speaking voice. BAH!

Burningwater
02-05-2005, 09:18 AM
Alright dude...having trouble getting more powerful high notes. What I want to be able to do, is not get into falsetto, but hit the first few notes in my falsetto range with my chest voice. As of now I sound too strained when trying, so any exercises for this would be quite helpful.

Merkaba
02-06-2005, 05:20 PM
I buzzed through them before, but I never really tried it or anything. A practice session I was able to squeeze in tonight however has convinced me otherwise. I tried full screaming, rasps, (I warmed up and down) using the methods you posted and it was an unbelievable difference. I cant really do the high stuff with the low larnyx, but holy crap can I scream like that. Unfortunately my mic has gone, so I wasn't able to record anything, but I loved the way I sound. Is it normal for your singing voice to be lower then your speaking voice and also, is falsetto sung with a high larnyx?

The only thing I'm having a little bit of problem with is co-ordination of the diaphram and the vocal chords isolation/larnyx dropping, but I s'pose that will come with practice...
I'll post a new recording soon as I get my mic working (man I wish I had a PA set up so I could sing and play at the same time properly) Thanks Merkaba

Edited to add: Yes I sounded like a munchkin in that recording.. 6' tall and I have a highish speaking voice. BAH!

Well the larynx will rise a bit. You just want to make sure it doesnt squeeze up. If you play around with dropping your chin a bit you can keep it a little lower but you will eventually reach a point where it rises a bit. As far as the diaphragmn link that will just take practice. Thats something you can practice all the time without even singing.

Merkaba
02-06-2005, 05:24 PM
Alright dude...having trouble getting more powerful high notes. What I want to be able to do, is not get into falsetto, but hit the first few notes in my falsetto range with my chest voice. As of now I sound too strained when trying, so any exercises for this would be quite helpful.

Well if you havent checked out my voicehelp hotline then check it out. Otherwise what youre trying to do is basically add twenty more pounds to your bench press. practice in mid and upper mid chest. Or should i say workout. practice trying to close up your low falsetto's into chest. They might sound like crap but its what youre trying to do eventually. Of course stay as relaxed as possible and warm up and warm down.

JdawgPhatyo
02-15-2005, 01:12 AM
I'm terribly sorry if this question's been asked already before, but how in the WORLD does Randy Blythe of Lamb of God get that strange ethereal sound to his growl/scream? My band's doing a cover of Vigil that I play bass/sing for and I've got a few weeks to get some sort of scream powerful and confident enough to jam with them. As is I can sometimes produce that sort of a scream but it's still really sketchy. I lack the sort of meat that his entails. I just need a massive beefening of tone.

Is it just more air and support that I require?

notchops14
02-19-2005, 07:51 PM
Yeah, how do you do a death scream like Lamb of God or Opeth?

luciano
02-27-2005, 11:34 PM
i just wanted to thank you Merkaba-1.

tonight i started my practice sessions and i could come out with a couple of screams so evil that I scared myself!!!

now the problem is that it doesn't come out all the time. i shall practice more and more and more.

for me the key, was the "grunting as a dog" part.

i can't thank you enough... i thought that my voice couldn't scream, and only the gifted people could do it. but now i see it is only a matter of technique.

for the ones who still can't do it: keep trying. if you practise enough it will come out!!!

Merkaba-1: THANX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merkaba
02-28-2005, 02:04 AM
:thumb:

Congrats man. Dont forget to not over push, and to still work on your true singing voices. It will help strengthen your screams. Best wishes, keep practcing!

Rats
02-28-2005, 02:47 AM
Hey Merkaba


I was wondering how long vocal cords usually take to fully heal from a vocal nodule or any major swelling. I've been singing for just over a year, but for like 6-8 months I was using bad singing technique most of the time, and singing/screaming hard shit like The Used, Tool, Slipknot, Linkin Park which probably made it worse because I was straining to hit some of those notes. Finally I completely lost my falsetto and my upper 1-1.5 octaves so I didn't sing at all for like 2 weeks. I don't know if I just had some major swelling or if I actually had a vocal nodules. But now, I'm afraid I didn't give my cords enough time to completely heal, because it seems like the effects of that are coming back. I'm able to sing in my lower range, about my lower 2 octaves just fine. But after singing in my higher register or screaming for even one song, my upper register starts to get raspy, almost like I am screaming without even trying. My lower register stays fine, though. Certain vowels also seem weaker. uu, ee and y are weaker in my chest/head voice, but they are strong in my falsetto. In my falsetto, ahh and o are weaker.

Po0sH
03-02-2005, 07:11 PM
I have a question about screaming Merkaba, but first answer Rats. I listened to your recording and did some screaming practice. I was practicing some on my cell phone, and it sounded really good, but the thing is, is the scream supposed to sound good from the mic and stuff? Because if i do it normally, it sounds somewhat in lower volume than if I talked or sung. If i do it outloud, it sounds very low and not too good, but into a mic it sounds a lot better. So like for instance Phil Anselmo, his sound like he really screams his arse off.

So my question is, are screams supposed to sound very low and stuff and is it when u scream into the mic, that the MIC is making it sound all distorted and stuff? Cuz into my cell phone, I think the combo of air also hitting it from my mouth made it sound distorted and good.

Merkaba
03-03-2005, 01:59 AM
I thought i had answered this but i think i went to look up otolaryngaligist to make sure i was spelling it correctly and I didnt make i back to the sight. Any ways its a doctor that specializes in the larynx area and usually has those cameras that can see your cords and all that. Anyways you should look up one or try to find one.

When one doesnt use proper technique the cords are blasted and not worked. So overtime they run the risk of getting weaker. Like how many days could you pull a car a hundred yards. You would get bigger and stronger, but soon afterwards you would start to break down ...due to overload. Improper technique overloads. And dont underestimate the power of nutrition. You will have to rebuild your body with what you give it. And if youre a fan of dairy cut it back or eliminate it all together for a few weeks. Cut alcohol, cut sugary foods, and cut caffeine, including tea, pepsi coke, etc. and of course smoking if you smoke.
IN your lower registers your cords are the thickest so you can pretty much do anything there because even with a small node its still fleshed over so to speak with the thickness still keep things closed when they need to be. But You could have a node or possibly some damage to the muslce or a nerve or a few other things that can happen but you can never be sure. until you get a doctor. actually if you have a node there are exercises that you can do that help but it depends on if its placement and size. A node is basically a throat corn..hehe.. a callus. So you can do certain things to speed up its melting away, just like if you massaged your callus and kept it moisturized. I wond get into them because one, i dont know the exactness of them and two you might not need to do them for your case. I would say find the doc to make sure. Is your speaking voice hoarse or rough? If you really cant see the doc i can only suggest doing lots of eee's at a mid pitch with minimal push. and doing some light falsettos that are NOT airy, and slide down to your lowest chest and do that low chest on at least the E vowel for a while. Keep us posted. Be careful. You cant go buy a new set of cords at the local music shop when you go get another guitar pic or something.

yea poosh. you know your cell phone is gonna pull the highs way up and all that wind will add a nice edge to it hitting that little pick up. Technically the only thing you should need from the mic is amplification. Thats where you want to get to. You shouldnt need anything but a mic and an amp. Now again, it may take a while to get good strength and everything built up but with careful practice you can get more and more there. And dont get me wrong, you will have to give good energy behind the sound to get a good projection, in other words, it will be pressurized but just not as harsh of a push as most people seem to think. And of course it would be diaphragm based. Keep practicing.

KKKKKocaine
03-03-2005, 12:25 PM
Merkaba, do you have any exercises that could be performed on buses, boring lectures, libary sessions and other situations in which you'd rather be doing something?
I'm not wanting a groundbreaking exercise that will let me sing every note, or turn me into a competition winning vocalist, but just little exercises to do anything that will help my voice really seen as in college I have alot of free time but nowhere I can go to sing full volume.

Also, after screaming I don't get pain or rawness, merely a dry feeling in my throat, It's a tad vague, but is this a bad thing? or simply a case of not lubricating vocal folds sufficiently?

LeadSinger327
03-03-2005, 11:31 PM
Hey Merkaba! lol i don't know if you remember me, but ive had alot of vocal problems in the past (to help the memory) thanks to the forums i was able to sing without messin up the voice...thanks guys lol...well anyways I got a recording of me singing "A Decade Under the Influence" by Taking Back Sunday (my favorite song) and i wanted to know if i could get some pointers lol...well thanks for the help guys, g2g

Cody

http://www.soundclick.com/util/Streamm3u.m3u?ID=2163571&q=lo

Merkaba
03-04-2005, 02:22 AM
Merkaba, do you have any exercises that could be performed on buses, boring lectures, libary sessions and other situations in which you'd rather be doing something?
I'm not wanting a groundbreaking exercise that will let me sing every note, or turn me into a competition winning vocalist, but just little exercises to do anything that will help my voice really seen as in college I have alot of free time but nowhere I can go to sing full volume.

Also, after screaming I don't get pain or rawness, merely a dry feeling in my throat, It's a tad vague, but is this a bad thing? or simply a case of not lubricating vocal folds sufficiently?
Cant think of any other than trying to feel your adams(with a finger placed on it) and practicing making silent notes, high and low, and keeping the adams apple from moving up. It takes practice but it can be done without the adams apple moving much at all. Imagine pulling the cords down and back for chest notes and up and back for head notes.

The dry throat could be anything. Could be the air and its affect on your actual throat and not your cords, or it could be your cords being dry or irritated. Keep practing and paying attention to your body and you'll figure it out. If its your cords it will eventually turn into pain or more pronounced symptoms. If its your throat it will probably go away with time if you practice a good deal.

KKKKKocaine
03-09-2005, 04:46 PM
Cant think of any other than trying to feel your adams(with a finger placed on it) and practicing making silent notes, high and low, and keeping the adams apple from moving up. It takes practice but it can be done without the adams apple moving much at all. Imagine pulling the cords down and back for chest notes and up and back for head notes.

The dry throat could be anything. Could be the air and its affect on your actual throat and not your cords, or it could be your cords being dry or irritated. Keep practing and paying attention to your body and you'll figure it out. If its your cords it will eventually turn into pain or more pronounced symptoms. If its your throat it will probably go away with time if you practice a good deal.

I haven't had anymore trouble with dry throats so I think it was just not drinking enough water. But with my screaming I've noticed a slight aching in my stomach, similar to if I did a set of russian twists or crunches. Is this a sign of my screaming correctly or a sign of over tensing with my screams?
The aching usually goes away after 10 minutes afterwards the practice.

One more question (I'm getting a vocal teacher now so this will most likely be my last) I read the rock and roll singers survival manual by Mark Baxter, and in the diet section he reccomended against milk and diary products for the reason of mucus build up?
Now, after having seen my dietician, I've been informed that I do need milk and diary products to bring up levels of calcium.

Is mark baxters advice to be taken with a grain of salt and would I be fine having small amounts of milk and cheese in a day? Or would I really need to cut it out completely to avoid mucus build up?

Thanks.

Merkaba
03-10-2005, 12:52 AM
well good. Dont forget that drinking too much water will dehydrate you.

hehe. You'll piss out too many electrolytes. Technically. The best way is to eat lots of fresh fruits and veggies.

If your stomach is aching then youre probably squeezing your abs too much. You really shouldnt be tensing your stomach. I know it seems to be one and the same with diaphragm but its not. So practice the breathing.

And dairy. I love dairy but i dont eat much of it for vocal reasons but I'm also not....shall we say, set up to digest lactose sugar.
Its designed for an animal with four stomachs. That should be enough to say we dont need it. But it does make your body produce alot of mucus.When you secret mucus its a defense mechanism. The same reason why your nose and eyes run when you eat hot peppers. Green and leafy veggies give a lot of calcium and you can always get foritified juices and breads and vitamins. I dont think its sensible to think that we as humans couldnt survive without cows. So i would look into other options. I mean in todays society we dont eat worth a dam so yea I could see a doctor saying you need dairy because i dont know of any other source of calcium as high as that. If you really feel like you need it then go for it. You can compare how you feel and sing with it verses without it. I wouldnt just worry about it but its very true that milk is not the easiest substance to digest.

Rats
03-10-2005, 01:18 AM
Just eat a bowl of cereal for breakfast if you are concerned about not getting enough nutrients.

KKKKKocaine
03-10-2005, 01:36 AM
well good. Dont forget that drinking too much water will dehydrate you.

hehe. You'll piss out too many electrolytes. Technically. The best way is to eat lots of fresh fruits and veggies.

If your stomach is aching then youre probably squeezing your abs too much. You really shouldnt be tensing your stomach. I know it seems to be one and the same with diaphragm but its not. So practice the breathing.

And dairy. I love dairy but i dont eat much of it for vocal reasons but I'm also not....shall we say, set up to digest lactose sugar.
Its designed for an animal with four stomachs. That should be enough to say we dont need it. But it does make your body produce alot of mucus.When you secret mucus its a defense mechanism. The same reason why your nose and eyes run when you eat hot peppers. Green and leafy veggies give a lot of calcium and you can always get foritified juices and breads and vitamins. I dont think its sensible to think that we as humans couldnt survive without cows. So i would look into other options. I mean in todays society we dont eat worth a dam so yea I could see a doctor saying you need dairy because i dont know of any other source of calcium as high as that. If you really feel like you need it then go for it. You can compare how you feel and sing with it verses without it. I wouldnt just worry about it but its very true that milk is not the easiest substance to digest.


Thanks :)

CatInLeatherPants
03-16-2005, 08:21 PM
Merkaba i've read most of your posts and stuff on here and just have a question that's sort of only relative to me. your "hotline" has been really helpful and i've seen a lot of improvement. but i still have a hell of a lot of room for improvement and i really aspire to be a good vocalist. so, my range goes up to a tenor G# and on the very rare occasion an A. but the highest consistently comfortable note is an E. above that it gets difficult to keep my diaphragm and all that isolated. could you possibly give me a rough outline of what a practice for me should be, what kind of work i can do to build up to that A&B area, and strengthen the F&G? that would be so helpful. thanks alot.

i_play_dead
03-28-2005, 09:01 AM
Merkaba,

Just to let you know, the only reason I joined this blogring is because I've really liked what you've done for the people here. But it seems like everything hasn't been able to help me.

Eh, you could say I've been "Screaming" for almost a year now (and I've been reading your articles for a couple months now). But until a few days ago, I thought it was decent. I never knew how much of a difference "screaming" without a mic and "screaming" with a mic there was. Until a few days ago, I was mic-less so I tried to develop a Agony Scene/Zaoesque scream and I believed it to be very decent, maybe even exceptional. Then I go to our first band practice, I hook up the PA system, and my "scream" sounds horrible.

It sounds very whispered and like I'm closing off the air coming up, resulting in abrasion in my throat (I tried "screaming" this morning and my throat is sore, for the first time in a while.). I've been told to coat the throat with several things (milk, peanut butter, honey, etc etc etc) but it seems like that doesn't help at all either. And I've looked for vocal coaches around my area (south of Kansas City, MO) and none of them are in this field. So I'm pretty much screwed for vocal lessons.

Is there anything you can recommend? My band is keeping me on the impression that I will become better, and I really don't want to let them down. I can do a recording, if that helps, but I think that you can get the idea, hopefully. Maybe I'm doing the whole "diaphragm" breathing wrong???

Once again, you've done an awesome job helping these people but it seems like it hasn't been able to help me; that's the only reason I'm posting this.

Thanks a lot, even if you can't get back to me.

David

If it helps any, I'm a 16 year old (next week) guy, 130, 5'6, just to give proportion ideas...I've been told that can help...ha...

i_play_dead
03-28-2005, 09:44 AM
Merkaba,

Just to let you know, the only reason I joined this blogring is because I've really liked what you've done for the people here. But it seems like everything hasn't been able to help me.

Eh, you could say I've been "Screaming" for almost a year now (and I've been reading your articles for a couple months now). But until a few days ago, I thought it was decent. I never knew how much of a difference "screaming" without a mic and "screaming" with a mic there was. Until a few days ago, I was mic-less so I tried to develop a Agony Scene/Zaoesque scream and I believed it to be very decent, maybe even exceptional. Then I go to our first band practice, I hook up the PA system, and my "scream" sounds horrible.

It sounds very whispered and like I'm closing off the air coming up, resulting in abrasion in my throat (I tried "screaming" this morning and my throat is sore, for the first time in a while.). I've been told to coat the throat with several things (milk, peanut butter, honey, etc etc etc) but it seems like that doesn't help at all either. And I've looked for vocal coaches around my area (south of Kansas City, MO) and none of them are in this field. So I'm pretty much screwed for vocal lessons.

Is there anything you can recommend? My band is keeping me on the impression that I will become better, and I really don't want to let them down. I can do a recording, if that helps, but I think that you can get the idea, hopefully. Maybe I'm doing the whole "diaphragm" breathing wrong???

Once again, you've done an awesome job helping these people but it seems like it hasn't been able to help me; that's the only reason I'm posting this.

Thanks a lot, even if you can't get back to me.

David

If it helps any, I'm a 16 year old (next week) guy, 130, 5'6, just to give proportion ideas...I've been told that can help...ha...

Blogring should've been forum. I just got done updating my Xanga... :confused: stupid stupid stupid...

Merkaba
03-28-2005, 01:26 PM
Coating the throat with food wont affect the cords...if it did you would choke! You know this. The only thing you can do is learn to relax...and keep the larynx low and work on isolating the cords from the larynx...I'm in a rush to work..so I'll be around later.

i_play_dead
03-28-2005, 02:11 PM
Coating the throat with food wont affect the cords...if it did you would choke! You know this. The only thing you can do is learn to relax...and keep the larynx low and work on isolating the cords from the larynx...I'm in a rush to work..so I'll be around later.

Don't worry about it. And I'll slap my friend for telling me that [coating].

Thanks.

Peg Dizzler
03-28-2005, 03:39 PM
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/pendingdemise.htm

Here. This might sound better. At the very beginning it was more of a head voice rasp, then I went into a falsetto scream. I've read everything there is in these forums on screaming (at least everything written by Merkaba-1) and I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right. I warm up, practice screaming, warm down, and do it almost everyday. Doesn't hurt at all.

Merkaba
03-29-2005, 12:10 AM
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/pendingdemise.htm

Here. This might sound better. At the very beginning it was more of a head voice rasp, then I went into a falsetto scream. I've read everything there is in these forums on screaming (at least everything written by Merkaba-1) and I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right. I warm up, practice screaming, warm down, and do it almost everyday. Doesn't hurt at all.
Yes that sounds way better. Technique wise it sounds good. Keep working

Peg Dizzler
03-29-2005, 01:14 AM
Thanks! :D
A week ago I decided I would exercise, run, and practice vocals everyday, as well as guitar which I play everyday anyways.... so I'll definitely keep it up. :)

Rats
03-29-2005, 01:17 AM
Thanks! :D
A week ago I decided I would exercise, run, and practice vocals everyday, as well as guitar which I play everyday anyways.... so I'll definitely keep it up. :)


Yeah man... exercising really does help your voice. I've gone to the gym 4 times a week for the past month or so and I'm singing a LOT better.

Phototropic
03-29-2005, 03:09 AM
Hey, I was just wondering how the singer from Isis can scream so loudly and for so long, wouldn't doing that mess up your throat in someway?

Thanks if you know what I'm on about :)

Rats
03-29-2005, 03:12 AM
Hey, I was just wondering how the singer from Isis can scream so loudly and for so long, wouldn't doing that mess up your throat in someway?

Thanks if you know what I'm on about :)

practice???????? it's the same with any instrument.
and no, it won't mess up your throat if you do it right.

Phototropic
03-29-2005, 03:32 AM
What's the correct way?

Rats
03-29-2005, 03:47 AM
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83073
http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166901

luciferchrist
03-29-2005, 07:02 AM
I have a question regarding where middle, and head voice are for me..

My range, as of now, is D2 to E4 (E above middle C). I can gliss/legato into the E, but it is not very comfortable or clean for me to sing in yet. Also, I am using a considerable amount of power, and have much tension (which I am working on eliminating) when I am going from A3 to E2. I am curious as to where middle voice, and head voice would be for someone in my range...

also I am curious as to what sensation I should be feeling as I transition into middle, and head voice. I am trying to maintain a strong chest, and mouth resonance when I go up in my range, but doesn't this sensation transfer over somewhere as I hit middle?

Thanks!

Merkaba
03-29-2005, 11:01 AM
Hey, I was just wondering how the singer from Isis can scream so loudly and for so long, wouldn't doing that mess up your throat in someway?

Thanks if you know what I'm on about :)
The thing about working out is that it increases blood flow to your cords becuase it increases blood flow to every part of your body. My coach always recommended warming up with jumping jacks, pushups and sit ups and stuff like that before warming up vocally. I'm a personal trainer and i go to the gym about 5 or more times a week.

You know me...I always stress nutrition and fitness....Take a whole body approach to this stuff if youre serious about it.

i_play_dead
03-29-2005, 12:00 PM
It was brought to my attention that maybe its the pa system that is making my scream sound bad...I had done some screaming via phone and it sounded very well to several people, but then over the pa system, it sounds whispered, like I said before. Could it be the PA system (Hollinger PA-120 four channel) or maybe I'm too close to the mic? Or should I still concentrate more on diaphragm breathing?

Sorry if I'm a bother.

x/x David x/x

Merkaba
03-29-2005, 01:38 PM
a phone pick up will make anyone sound good. Its just the mic. I have no clue when it comes to pa's but i will say that you just very well might not have a proper scream. you should post a sample here. Too close to the mic or the pa system...I'm 99 percent sure its neither one of those. If youre screaming properly nothing will really mess it up or alter it that much unless its some freaked out effect or eq. You should always be sure youre coming form the diaphgragm..but feel like youre singing the scream like any other note.

i_play_dead
03-29-2005, 05:17 PM
a phone pick up will make anyone sound good. Its just the mic. I have no clue when it comes to pa's but i will say that you just very well might not have a proper scream. you should post a sample here. Too close to the mic or the pa system...I'm 99 percent sure its neither one of those. If youre screaming properly nothing will really mess it up or alter it that much unless its some freaked out effect or eq. You should always be sure youre coming form the diaphgragm..but feel like youre singing the scream like any other note.

I don't have a good enough Mic to record anything like that on here...

I'm pretty sure its the fact that my scream isn't good enough. Just talking to someone else who helps with this kind of stuff made me realize that. So I think I'm going to take some lessons, if I can find the rides...

Man, this sucks. lol. Before all this, I thought it sounded good. How loud should it be without amplification to sound even decent?

Peg Dizzler
03-29-2005, 08:37 PM
I recorded mine with a computer mic, just keep a distance from the mic or don't blow air straight into it... then you can hear the "real" scream. It might sound that great but it worked okay for me.

uninvitedm
03-31-2005, 01:25 AM
WIth a little practice you learn how much you need for your singing and style. But its the feeling youre looking for. If you check out my samples i have a rasp lesson where i start off a rasped up falsetto scream and i remember doing the begining pressure a few times so that you can hear what it feels like, so to speak.

Hi. Noticed in this reply you mentioned you had some samples, do you have the link handy, Merkaba? Thanks

Merkaba
03-31-2005, 01:33 PM
Hi. Noticed in this reply you mentioned you had some samples, do you have the link handy, Merkaba? Thanks
Its in the first page of this thread

jhaatwt411
03-31-2005, 02:23 PM
Hey man... you might(but probbaly wont) remember me from a while ago, and I have a few questions for you. I am a 14 year old- fully matured 'kid'. I have a pretty deep voice. One thing that I'd really like to do is sing like the singer(s) from taking back sunday and my chemical romance, and they have some semi-high notes that you have to hit... I am the lead guitarist in my band, and i would really like to become a backup singer too, and i want to be able to sing in the acoustic band im in too. I was just wondering if there was any way that I could kind of... hear the notes im singing? If you need a better explanation ill tell you, but the notes i sing dont sound like the notes that come out of my mouth, and sometimes i cant really find the notes when im singing with music. I was just wondering if there was any way i could be bale to hear the notes and stuff(with the least amount of practice, because i get embarassed when people hear me sing...)

Thanks in advance

Merkaba
03-31-2005, 11:59 PM
lol...at fourteen, I wouldnt call it fully matured regardless of what you feel or sound like. Its just way to young to know where your voice will end up as a male. Just because its deep now doesnt mean it wont get deeper. You could be a bass which would make somethings just impossible. We dont know yet...

As far as hearing what you sing...I think youre basically saying that youre singing out of key or hitting wrong notes. Theres no magic pill here if you dont have it naturally. Youre just gonna have to practice scales and intervals. YOu can do this on guitar or piano. But Its just gonna take some time and experience for you to get into muscle memory the amount of energy you need for each note youre trying to sing. If youre like me and you just cant practice around anyone, then youre at a lost because youre either gonna have to get over it or find some place where you can be alone. Being 14 your choices are limited. As i said, my car is my refuge and I wouldnt be able to sing a lick if it werent for it.

Alustle
04-01-2005, 05:10 AM
Hey merkaba....I started screaming like last november and I'm only 17 and not exactly a fully matured adult yet. When I scream it hurts but as I get better at it I get worse at normal singing. Is this normal or is there a way round it? Also should I wait untill I have my full adult voice before I start to scream again? My music teacher in school told me that screaming at this age will stop my voice maturing to the stage that it would do if I didn't scream.

newm1ke
04-02-2005, 01:02 PM
Its in the first page of this thread
I can't find the audio samples either. I'm probably just being really ignorant here but on the first page, I see the links to the other various singing guides but no audio page.

himynameistweek
04-02-2005, 01:09 PM
Hey merkaba....I started screaming like last november and I'm only 17 and not exactly a fully matured adult yet. When I scream it hurts but as I get better at it I get worse at normal singing. Is this normal or is there a way round it? Also should I wait untill I have my full adult voice before I start to scream again? My music teacher in school told me that screaming at this age will stop my voice maturing to the stage that it would do if I didn't scream.
edit: aha, i just saw in the other thread he already talked to you about it.

Merkaba
04-02-2005, 04:07 PM
Uninvited and Newm1ke....

yea thats my bad. Its inside the rasp instruction link...but now I've added a seperate link directly to the samples. Its kinda old stuff and I havent had a chance to update. Maybe I will soon, but its still the same principals. heres a link directly to the soundclick site...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/merkabastarmusic.htm

newm1ke
04-03-2005, 03:53 AM
Uninvited and Newm1ke....

yea thats my bad. Its inside the rasp instruction link...but now I've added a seperate link directly to the samples. Its kinda old stuff and I havent had a chance to update. Maybe I will soon, but its still the same principals. heres a link directly to the soundclick site...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/merkabastarmusic.htm

That's some good stuff, Merkaba thanks, got the chino stuff down. Do you have any samples for singing as well? Like I'm having trouble singing from my gut, would be great to have stuff to hear like that.

Po0sH
04-03-2005, 11:18 PM
merkaba can you critique this quick little scream i did. I read some of ur stuff, and listened to your screams, and I tried to emulate that sound.

http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Q56JFJEX65EK2B7DB9Q05MBQE

Peg Dizzler
04-14-2005, 02:34 AM
Bump.

*I like this thread* :)

CatInLeatherPants
04-14-2005, 08:07 PM
hey anyone, where to look for falsetto screaming tips?

Peg Dizzler
04-14-2005, 10:15 PM
^ Here...

stone sour
04-16-2005, 01:22 AM
will it be to hard to do screams,sing and play at the same time if i play and sing stuff like slipknot,lamb of god,bleeding through,metallica,chimaira?

LleWeLLyN
04-29-2005, 01:27 PM
Yo.
JESUS this thread is helping.. Seriously merkaba thanx alot man
Allow me to introduce myself..
I'm 17, a bassist, i recently started singing.. like 6 months ago.. I have no clue what my range is.. i can sing some theater of tragedy, evanescence, lacuna coil, Within temptations, two nightwish songs (FINALLY!!!), Lullacry, some mariah carey (random i know)..
I just need some help in staying on key.. and i started strengthening.. :) hehe.. U mentioned sumthing about stayin on key.. a program or something? in another thread............??

moaner
04-29-2005, 02:00 PM
There's a fantastic non-financial prize for the first person who can sing "the great gig in the sky" to me.

PunkyMcEmo
04-29-2005, 06:58 PM
merkaba, i need help. i read most of your screaming articles. i still dont know if im doing it right. when i scream, im like, whispering, but yelling it. it doesnt FEEL like its hurting me, but im not sure. it sounds right, but im not sure if its safe. is that the right thing, or should i hire a vocal instructor?

himynameistweek
04-29-2005, 10:34 PM
merkaba, i need help. i read most of your screaming articles. i still dont know if im doing it right. when i scream, im like, whispering, but yelling it. it doesnt FEEL like its hurting me, but im not sure. it sounds right, but im not sure if its safe. is that the right thing, or should i hire a vocal instructor?
if it sounds good and it's comfortable, what are you worried about? just make sure you warm up and warm down. note how you feel after like an hour or a few after singing/screaming. if it's normal, there's probably nothing to worry about...

guitarro777
05-02-2005, 06:29 PM
Yeah ummm...I decided that I was gonnna sing and record and post it up so maybe u guys can hear me and maybe see what I have to work on. I started singing not too long ago, so please forgive the horribleness, I can assure you, I play guitar much better than I sing hehe. So yeah if maybe Merkaba can give some tips. This is me trying to sing the begginging from Eriatarka by Mars Volta. Some falsetto is in there, I dunno just tell me what you think. thanks...

http://www.geocities.com/mookow8621/me.mp3

I'm just trying to figure out like, how do you increase the range of your chest voice? I wanna sing high like Cedric but without the falsetto, are there techniques I can practice so that i can be able to do this?

bradmac
05-02-2005, 08:00 PM
Merkaba.... please help!

I'm 16, and have been singing for about a year and a half now. ive gotten far better than i thought i would, but thats beside the point. ive always loosely followed a warmup routine, and never had any troubles with my voice until now...

a couple days ago i noticed a small lump in the center of my throat above my adams apple, but more on the edge of where my jaw starts out to my chin. it seems everytime i sing, (or even warm up!!) it becomes irritated and hurts. when i swallow, it hurts.

could this be a vocal cord polyp? im so scared that ill lose my singing voice and all the work i've done during this time. and i definately dont want surgery or anything. to rule some things out, i dont smoke, and even though my mom did when i lived with her, she did it outside. the only place outside singing where i would strain my voice is work, in a kitchen.

this is so scary. please tell me this could be something else before i decide i have to go to a doctor.

thanks very much.
-brad

LleWeLLyN
05-03-2005, 10:09 AM
There's a fantastic non-financial prize for the first person who can sing "the great gig in the sky" to me.

The what?

lloydapalooza
05-03-2005, 11:37 PM
The what?

its a song by pink floyd with a girl singing all gospel-y

Merkaba
05-04-2005, 12:59 AM
Merkaba.... please help!

I'm 16, and have been singing for about a year and a half now. ive gotten far better than i thought i would, but thats beside the point. ive always loosely followed a warmup routine, and never had any troubles with my voice until now...

a couple days ago i noticed a small lump in the center of my throat above my adams apple, but more on the edge of where my jaw starts out to my chin. it seems everytime i sing, (or even warm up!!) it becomes irritated and hurts. when i swallow, it hurts.

could this be a vocal cord polyp? im so scared that ill lose my singing voice and all the work i've done during this time. and i definately dont want surgery or anything. to rule some things out, i dont smoke, and even though my mom did when i lived with her, she did it outside. the only place outside singing where i would strain my voice is work, in a kitchen.

this is so scary. please tell me this could be something else before i decide i have to go to a doctor.

thanks very much.
-brad
I'm betting you've irritated the soft palet in the back of your throat with all the jetting air. But to be honest with what you've said Its just too hard to know. If you can feel a lump, its probably not on your cords. Its hard to feel anything on your cords. How do you know its a lump?

Kosta
05-04-2005, 01:34 PM
Killing my falsetto (http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336354)

I made this topic before. Could you help me out with what the problem is?

Is it me being a naiive sh** for not warming up and having a bottle of water at hand, or is is my technique? (Note: I stopped tightening any muscles but I still get the same sound. I have no pain whatsoever, nor do I feel any other form of irritation. It's basically just my falsetto that stops working for some time. And I don't scream from the gut.. which is I guess a huge mistake)

Also.

That falsetto scream is basically just... a mix of making my voice raspy with the soft pallet and singing in falsetto, right? And, if I want to do that scream, I just have to learn to "open" my throat more to get more air through it using my diapragm, right?

So.. let's say. Lamb Of God's vocalist. His lower stuff is just simply lowering his voice and adding a rasp with his soft pallet and the high parts the falsetto scream as you described it?

Merkaba
05-05-2005, 02:02 AM
Killing my falsetto (http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336354)

I made this topic before. Could you help me out with what the problem is?

Is it me being a naiive sh** for not warming up and having a bottle of water at hand, or is is my technique? (Note: I stopped tightening any muscles but I still get the same sound. I have no pain whatsoever, nor do I feel any other form of irritation. It's basically just my falsetto that stops working for some time. And I don't scream from the gut.. which is I guess a huge mistake)

Also.

That falsetto scream is basically just... a mix of making my voice raspy with the soft pallet and singing in falsetto, right? And, if I want to do that scream, I just have to learn to "open" my throat more to get more air through it using my diapragm, right?

So.. let's say. Lamb Of God's vocalist. His lower stuff is just simply lowering his voice and adding a rasp with his soft pallet and the high parts the falsetto scream as you described it?
Wake up tomorrow morning, put your clothes on, some shoe's, and go do 6 one hundred yard dashes with 45 seconds rest in between each one. Sound foolish? Chino didnt warm up...course he smoke and drank..but he paralyzed on cord and partially paralyzed the other and was about to be without a job! Wouldnt that suck. To go from platinum to no job because you didnt like to warm up? Warm up. Remember you can be doing alot of stuff while youre walking to your car or here and there throughout the day. Granted, though, it wont take the place of a good gradual nomral singing voice warm up, but it will still help.
If you say ahh..then drop your chin a bit and open up like youre saying ahh in an opera voice...this is about as open as youre gonna get. Alot of raspy screams that sound like falsetto are head voice, heavily rasped. Its just so distorted that it sounds like its static. But its basically a closed off palet. I dont know Lamb of God right off the bat. But I havent heard a scream that is any different than Chad from mudvayne..i use that example because i know mudvayne. He doesnt really get too high. and uses alot of head, and not as much falsetto. You can do that more when playing in B or whatever they play in...a lower key, Deftones in C per se. Is all the same and theres not much you can do with the throat and cords except to develop your foundation so that you can strengthen whatever it is you can come up with. The cords come together, you push air on them and they vibrate and give off puffs of air each time they open and close(hundred or two times a second), then you try to bank these puffs of air off the back of your palet. Dont forget that lessons are always an option. Post a sample if you can.

Krao
05-05-2005, 07:19 AM
Hi merkaba!

I wanna start off by thanking you for all your great posts. I recently sang a little in a band and thought it would be really cool to be able to scream like alot of singers do, so i started searching and it got me here. I have reading almost all your stuff and just started practicing. I feel like I'm on the right track, listening to your instructions. I doesn't sound all that good yet, but I'm not expecting miracles. Anyhow, I had some questions:
The main thing I want to be able to do is sing really dark, like the singer of opeth, but it feel kinda hard to go for that right away.. so I have started out by trying to get just a raspy scream, any kind of scream. Is that a good way to go, learn the basic and then develope something from it? Or are there a big difference doing a opeth like growl, so I should start aiming for that right away?

Secondly I've been singing in a chorus for quite some yeers, not anymore, but atleast I got some singing technique left from it. I havn't had any trouble with pain but I feel a little like when you've been pushing your voice and singing for quite a time, but much faster then when singing normally. My range decrease and I get bigger problems relaxing the more I go on. I've only actually practiced screaming 2 times now, and both times gone for somewhere between 40-50 minutes. Both times I've also been a little soor afterwards, but still no pain. I was thinking it could be coused by me not doing right all the time, but since I don't feel any pain while I'm singing, do you think it's alright?

I'm gonna try to record some screams, maybe you could listen to them and see if I'm on the right track? I a little worried I'm trying to learn the wrong way and may be damaging my voice.

If it matters, I'm 19 years old.. when is your voice fully developed? :rolleyes:

Another thing, to describe what it feels like I'm doing when I try to create my rasp is that I push my airflow backwards towards the back of my thoat, somewhat helping with my tounge, and kinda raising the back of my throat a little. Atleast that's what I think I'm doing. :lol:

Kosta
05-05-2005, 12:06 PM
Wake up tomorrow morning, put your clothes on, some shoe's, and go do 6 one hundred yard dashes with 45 seconds rest in between each one. Sound foolish? Chino didnt warm up...course he smoke and drank..but he paralyzed on cord and partially paralyzed the other and was about to be without a job! Wouldnt that suck. To go from platinum to no job because you didnt like to warm up? Warm up. Remember you can be doing alot of stuff while youre walking to your car or here and there throughout the day. Granted, though, it wont take the place of a good gradual nomral singing voice warm up, but it will still help.
If you say ahh..then drop your chin a bit and open up like youre saying ahh in an opera voice...this is about as open as youre gonna get. Alot of raspy screams that sound like falsetto are head voice, heavily rasped. Its just so distorted that it sounds like its static. But its basically a closed off palet. I dont know Lamb of God right off the bat. But I havent heard a scream that is any different than Chad from mudvayne..i use that example because i know mudvayne. He doesnt really get too high. and uses alot of head, and not as much falsetto. You can do that more when playing in B or whatever they play in...a lower key, Deftones in C per se. Is all the same and theres not much you can do with the throat and cords except to develop your foundation so that you can strengthen whatever it is you can come up with. The cords come together, you push air on them and they vibrate and give off puffs of air each time they open and close(hundred or two times a second), then you try to bank these puffs of air off the back of your palet. Dont forget that lessons are always an option. Post a sample if you can.


Sooooo. Basically. It's all because I'm not warming up that I kill my falsetto?

lloydapalooza
05-05-2005, 11:10 PM
Hi merkaba!

I wanna start off by thanking you for all your great posts. I recently sang a little in a band and thought it would be really cool to be able to scream like alot of singers do, so i started searching and it got me here. I have reading almost all your stuff and just started practicing. I feel like I'm on the right track, listening to your instructions. I doesn't sound all that good yet, but I'm not expecting miracles. Anyhow, I had some questions:
The main thing I want to be able to do is sing really dark, like the singer of opeth, but it feel kinda hard to go for that right away.. so I have started out by trying to get just a raspy scream, any kind of scream. Is that a good way to go, learn the basic and then develope something from it? Or are there a big difference doing a opeth like growl, so I should start aiming for that right away?

Secondly I've been singing in a chorus for quite some yeers, not anymore, but atleast I got some singing technique left from it. I havn't had any trouble with pain but I feel a little like when you've been pushing your voice and singing for quite a time, but much faster then when singing normally. My range decrease and I get bigger problems relaxing the more I go on. I've only actually practiced screaming 2 times now, and both times gone for somewhere between 40-50 minutes. Both times I've also been a little soor afterwards, but still no pain. I was thinking it could be coused by me not doing right all the time, but since I don't feel any pain while I'm singing, do you think it's alright?

I'm gonna try to record some screams, maybe you could listen to them and see if I'm on the right track? I a little worried I'm trying to learn the wrong way and may be damaging my voice.

If it matters, I'm 19 years old.. when is your voice fully developed? :rolleyes:

Another thing, to describe what it feels like I'm doing when I try to create my rasp is that I push my airflow backwards towards the back of my thoat, somewhat helping with my tounge, and kinda raising the back of my throat a little. Atleast that's what I think I'm doing. :lol:


i would really like to hear your scream and the technique you described to use to make the rasp. also merkaba, id like to hear the heavily rasped head voice scream you were describing.

thanks.

Merkaba
05-06-2005, 12:48 AM
Sooooo. Basically. It's all because I'm not warming up that I kill my falsetto?
Its hard to say, but its not a good thing to do. When you dont warm up your cords will swell waaaay faster than they would if more limber. To go falsetto you have to thin the cords, as you pull them and stretch them. If they are swollen they will just not be able to get thinner and stretch. Easily logical.
are you losing all of your falsetto or just your really high notes? I bet youre squezzing your larynx up, its just so common. Post a sample if you can.

Merkaba
05-06-2005, 12:51 AM
i would really like to hear your scream and the technique you described to use to make the rasp. also merkaba, id like to hear the heavily rasped head voice scream you were describing.

thanks.
Well i'm planning on posting a few more samples sometime soon. I have some up in the jams session community thread if you havent checked them out yet.

Maybe I'll just try to rasp a gilss through my whole usable range. Never tried it before. Maybe a regular gliss..then one with rasp. And maybe pause at the breaks between chest to head to falsetto.
There were a few other requests as well. Regular singing, and high and low notes, and a falsetto transitioning to a raspy falsetto. Any others?

Kosta
05-06-2005, 01:59 PM
Its hard to say, but its not a good thing to do. When you dont warm up your cords will swell waaaay faster than they would if more limber. To go falsetto you have to thin the cords, as you pull them and stretch them. If they are swollen they will just not be able to get thinner and stretch. Easily logical.
are you losing all of your falsetto or just your really high notes? I bet youre squezzing your larynx up, its just so common. Post a sample if you can.


Post a sample of my falsetto after my screaming? K will try.

Also, I read some of your instructions. If I want more air to pass through my throat, for my scream, I basically, have to learn how to isolate my vocal chords? Like.. when I yawn, my adams apple lowers so I can let more air pass through. That's what you said, right?

What would be the absolute best way to practice that?

I'm sorry I bitch so much, but I'm really the worst at what I'm doing in my band (but, I'm also the most creative of them all and the creative mind behind the band), and I don't want to quit my band, but, I also don't want to be the reason that the band isn't as great as it could be..

Merkaba
05-06-2005, 03:22 PM
Yea you have to be able to isolate the cord muscles from the larynx muscles. The yawning larynx and swallowing larynx are just examples to show whats going on. You need the larynx down to let air pass, but you dont want to feel like youre having to hold it down. My isolation thread describes it a little better. Remember that the cords are horizontal, and practice melodies and singing without moving your face or jaw...and put your finger on your larynx(dont press hard) to see if youre squeezing it up. It will move a bit but you dont want it jumping up like youre swallowing. And dont over push your wind. Do some normal singing like opera style to get a feel for it.

mygler
05-06-2005, 03:48 PM
hi, Merkaba-1 can you please listen to this, and give me some feedback what I need to work on, to not suck so bad as I do now...

http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2396263&q=Lo
and http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2396257&q=Lo

Any advice would be sweet to get. Dont suger coat it , give me the cold hard truth :)
do I have any chance to ever learn to sing or am I a lost cause.

Somebody please give me some pointers.

Krao
05-07-2005, 05:57 AM
Ok, got some recording done today.

http://www.forsmark.uu.se/~fs03olsa/sound/

There are 3 samples.
Scream_low.mp3 is somewhere in the middle of my range
Scream_high.mp3 is a falsetto
Scream_dark.mp3 is kinda as low as i can go

I recorded the stuff the 3rd time I've praticed screaming, so don't expect much of it guys. Anyways, Merkaba, I don't think it sound any good or cool yet, but I'm on the right track beeing able to do that without pain? I managed to get through this training session without any soar throat afterwards, as I said in my earlier post (maybe you missed it?), so I guess that's good.

If you ask me the falsetto thing sounds like crap. How do you make your falsetto sound so cool? I've been exprementing some with more or less cord activation, but the falsetto thing is just really hard. I've noticed I tend to be less relaxed in my throat when doing it aswell. On the dark sample i try to use a very small amount of cord activation, but what I'm really after is to sound like the opeth singer, any pointers there?

Kosta
05-07-2005, 07:02 AM
Yea you have to be able to isolate the cord muscles from the larynx muscles. The yawning larynx and swallowing larynx are just examples to show whats going on. You need the larynx down to let air pass, but you dont want to feel like youre having to hold it down. My isolation thread describes it a little better. Remember that the cords are horizontal, and practice melodies and singing without moving your face or jaw...and put your finger on your larynx(dont press hard) to see if youre squeezing it up. It will move a bit but you dont want it jumping up like youre swallowing. And dont over push your wind. Do some normal singing like opera style to get a feel for it.


I still have no idea how that works, and I already read that topic. I just.. can't do it. And I'm still trying. And I sure as hell am not giving up.

All I can do is get a raspy scream that lasts for 10 seconds at best, but, that's about it. And I can't record it properly with this mic, or else, I would've done it. It distorts too much.

The type of scream I was orginally going for was this(click) (http://convergecult.com/videos/view.php?video=ebv&w=360&h=240). It's a Converge video. How does the guy do it? He makes it look so easy.

And how do I know that I do scream from the gut? I inhale a lot of air, and my stomache swells as I do that, while standing. And I then relesse it in my scream. But, that of course means nothing.

But, I remember, I once did something, that made me release a lot of pretty fast flowing air for 20 seconds or so. And don't know how I did that. But it did feel different.

lloydapalooza
05-07-2005, 04:49 PM
check out the the the fall of troy's screams, theyre nuts

http://myspace.com/thefalloftroy

also check out circle takes the square's screams

http://www.calamityproject.com/dmp/cttsflash/ctts_player.html

saetia has some pretty interesting screams too but i cant find any songs online

dreddy2
05-07-2005, 08:39 PM
so far all i've seen on the forums are how to screem like emo or death metal bands, can any tell post on how to some classic screems?

like a Roger Daltery sceem in "Love Reign O'er me" or "Won't Get Fooled Again"
or an Ian Gillan screem, Cris Cornell, Robert Plant????

lloydapalooza
05-08-2005, 02:21 AM
i think classic screams are just rasped head voices and maybe some rasped falsetto

Light_Fantastic
05-08-2005, 08:16 AM
i think classic screams are just rasped head voices and maybe some rasped falsetto


Hey Lloyd:
I listened to your 2 scream links.
Those guys are good, but man, they wrecking their voices. Although they are holding back on raw power, they are using their throats, to produce that kind of raspy effect, and it can cause lots of damage over the years.

I have been doing a very high end upper range falsetto scream for years, ala Rob Halford, or Geoff Tate, and the trick to that , because it is actually a scream, kinda like the chicks in horror movies uses...lol
but...it is also sculpted into a note, and you have to use your thoat and diapham to learn to constrict the scream, otherwise you can blow out your voice doing this type of scream also....
next week, I will try to record some various screams that I can do & i'll post them on here...
Singing hard rock alone is difficult enough, but when your screaming night after night on a live tour, you can imagine how hard that is. it's like the Olympics, you voice has to be trained, and ready to do that level of singing.
Jay Link

dreddy2
05-08-2005, 10:52 AM
you have to use your thoat and diapham to learn to constrict the scream, otherwise you can blow out your voice doing this type of scream

i've been told that in music class a lot, and teachers always train you to use falsetto when you go into a high register (it's almost second nature now) - this however gives a "feminine" characteristic to the high pitches that i want to get rid of.

As far as classic (rock) singers, i always thought that they carried their chest voice into head, and that's how they get that "aggressive" tone?

mygler
05-08-2005, 12:42 PM
Anyone wanna say something about my earlier post ? please :upset:
I need some advice, come on guys.. :)

lloydapalooza
05-08-2005, 08:28 PM
Anyone wanna say something about my earlier post ? please :upset:
I need some advice, come on guys.. :)

you sound really off when your singing under the bridge. you need to train your ear.

Merkaba
05-08-2005, 10:49 PM
so far all i've seen on the forums are how to screem like emo or death metal bands, can any tell post on how to some classic screems?

like a Roger Daltery sceem in "Love Reign O'er me" or "Won't Get Fooled Again"
or an Ian Gillan screem, Cris Cornell, Robert Plant????

We'll dont know about the others but Cornell is one of my idols...I've got him pretty much down pat. He uses falsetto many times. But true voice in others. Plant from what i remember is about the same. These guys have pretty good natural voices, but Its still all the same as far as screaminess goes... some screams are head, true voice and some are falsetto but thats pretty much the only difference. Othewise, if there's rasp, its pretty much coming from extra push and scraping the air off the back of the throat. You just cant squeeze the larynx up in all of your emotional rampage. Check out my voicehelp hotline.

zippcraz1one
05-09-2005, 08:44 AM
I have been singing for a year and a few weeks ago

i found it easy to hold and hit notes and stuff but

after i stoped it felt like something was stuck in my throat

and i was singing for 3 or 4 hours

i didnt warm up or down or drink any water

is this normal or did i mess something up ???

Merkaba
05-09-2005, 09:56 AM
I wouldnt worry about it if its not painful...however noone can tell from an internet post. If you feel uncomfortable just keep an eye...or nerve, on it.

zippcraz1one
05-09-2005, 08:38 PM
is it also normal for it to be easy to hit high notes? its like i dont even have to try anymore.
i was a little scared when it started to be that easy.. like i ****ed my voice up
or something.. i dont want to lose my voice or anything.. so im a little freaked out
by this... and also there is a little rasp when i sing and talk i can go from E2
to around G4 or F4 and its really easy.. and btw im 16 if that helps p.s. sorry if your brain hurts from reading this lol

Merkaba
05-10-2005, 12:41 AM
I take it youre not using C4 as your middle C?

zippcraz1one
05-10-2005, 10:57 AM
nope i dont really understand what middle C is i just
start singing notes and stuff

Peg Dizzler
05-10-2005, 11:30 AM
Hey Merk,
I agree with everything you said about Mudvayne. Chad is one of the most talented vocalists out there, especially for such a popular metal band. I've been noticing for awhile that he uses alot of raspy head voice, and switches it to a falsetto scream at times. Or singing clean and use rasp here and there, still in head voice. It's really quite interesting. At first, when I started screaming (using your advice), I had an extremely hard time transforming it into a raspy singing voice like he does. Now (like a month later or so), screaming is very easy.. I've found my "sweet spot" so I don't have to push too hard, like you said, because at first I was just pushing hard to get it out. I can do it more efficiently now. Anyway, today on the drive to work while practicing, I kind of did a guttoral scream by accident. Then I remembered Kristina's advice, about making it like a gargle, and I realized that's totally how it's done. Before I didn't understand that advice, I couldn't do it at all, but now I think I got it. My throat position feels the same as a normal scream, and it takes a decent amount of diaphragm pressure, but the rasp seems to come from, uhh, wherever the gargling sound comes from, instead of the back of the throat. You know what I mean? I don't know where exactly I would say gargling comes from.. but it feels like it's above the throat. Anyway.. I practiced it alot, and needless to say, it didn't hurt. So I'll be doing these with my regular practice routine from now on. Here's my soundclick page where you can listen to it.http://www.soundclick.com/pendingdemise
Be easy on me, it's my first day with the guttoral stuff. ;) The falsetto scream is a newer one too, the one named "scream 2" is the one you heard before, kind of a raspy head voice going into a falsetto scream.

Peg Dizzler
05-10-2005, 11:44 AM
Ok, got some recording done today.

http://www.forsmark.uu.se/~fs03olsa/sound/

There are 3 samples.
Scream_low.mp3 is somewhere in the middle of my range
Scream_high.mp3 is a falsetto
Scream_dark.mp3 is kinda as low as i can go

I recorded the stuff the 3rd time I've praticed screaming, so don't expect much of it guys. Anyways, Merkaba, I don't think it sound any good or cool yet, but I'm on the right track beeing able to do that without pain? I managed to get through this training session without any soar throat afterwards, as I said in my earlier post (maybe you missed it?), so I guess that's good.

If you ask me the falsetto thing sounds like crap. How do you make your falsetto sound so cool? I've been exprementing some with more or less cord activation, but the falsetto thing is just really hard. I've noticed I tend to be less relaxed in my throat when doing it aswell. On the dark sample i try to use a very small amount of cord activation, but what I'm really after is to sound like the opeth singer, any pointers there?

Well, you had the voices right. All 3 clips were in either chest, head, or falsetto voice, but it was a singing voice. That's great you understand rasp though, otherwise it'd be very hard for us to help you out... lol.
But yeah, you got the rasp-singing down, like almost any rock or metal vocalist.. think Metallica or something, Hetfield is the best example of a singer who uses rasp almost all the time.
But to be honest, none of those were screams. Since we're all talking about screaming here, I assume that's what you're going for. I don't know about head voice screams, I really wouldn't say there's such a thing, at least not a useable one. If you use your head voice and add rasp, that's fine, but if you push hard and "over rasp", well that kind of hurts, haha. Not a healthy thing to do. Doesn't sound too great either. I think the easiest scream to start with is a falsetto scream, some people find lower screams easier though, so I dunno. I would start with a falsetto scream. The falsetto clip you was pretty much what I sounded like before I learned to loosen my throat and actually scream. It just takes practice. What I did the very first day I learned to scream was, 1. warm up my singing and falsetto voice, then concentrentating on falsetto for awhile because I knew that was the only way to properly do a mid to high pitched scream. 2. start singing falsetto notes, not too high and not too low. I think the common problem is people push hard to go higher, thinking they'll scream. Just try a mid-range falsetto note, and push harder. Since you already seem to understand rasp, just keep attempting to add rasp and stay relaxed, while pushing more air out. Make your throat feel like you're yawning, so it's definitely open.

That's about as much as I could tell you, if you have a question about any of it, Merk could help you more.

As far as Opeth style guttoral screams go, I would attempt to learn falsetto screams first. Guttoral screams are done the same way, except it's not falsetto (I don't think) but it's not really head voice either.. it's just an opeth, I mean, OPEN throat, haha. :p But for me, the rasp comes a different way; through the same feeling as gargling water. This is what I heard from a very experienced vocalist. I tried guttoral screaming previously, trying to get rasp from the back of my throat while also trying to make it low, but it ended up sounding mediocre at best and it hurt. Felt like my cords were flapping the first few times I tried, so I stopped. Then when I figured it out with the open throat and gargling-rasp (lol) way, it sounded totally right to me.. just like Opeth or Novembre... but maybe not as low. :p

Krao
05-10-2005, 01:06 PM
Thanks for some response! :thumb:

Seems alot of people say the falsetto scream is easiest, I'll go for that for a starters. I've also read the gargle water thing somewhere on the forum before, I don't really get what feeling your after though.. but I guess it's just practice, fool around some with your voice and avoid getting hurt.