Merkabas Voice-Help Hotline

[Semple]

Okay, I've figured out what I was doing wrong, so I've got it under control. I was clearing my throat the "wrong way" which is just the same as screaming the wrong way, and it was griding everything together, and scratching everything up. Then basically any kind of vibration just makes it worse.

[crash_this]

I'm new to the forum and i've read a lot of your scream posts, but i'm still having the hardest time screaming.
See i'm aiming for an underoath high pitch scream.
I've been doing some of your techniques like isolation and stuff but i still can't get it.
Is there some other way to do this?

[Merkaba]

Merkaba, just out of interest, what is your overall vocal range, and your individual range for chest, head and falsetto? Sorry if this has been asked, but i don't recall someone asking.

It would be pretty cool if you uploaded an audio clip of yourself demonstrating your vocal range - to show us how things should be sounding in the extremes.

Also, I thought of something that might be able to help you show people the difference between the registers, because a lot of people are asking 'is this in head or falsetto' or (as in my case) find it hard to distinguish between chest and head. So here's the idea...

What I think would be a good idea would be for you to post an audio clip of yourself singing the same note in all three registers, and then state which of these registers would GENERALLY be the correct one to sing that note in. So, for example, you could do something like "this is what D4 sounds like when sung in chest voice.... now this is what D4 sounds like when sung in head... and now falsetto etc." That way I think it would illustrate how the different registers sound when doing the same thing. If it's too hard to find a note that is possible to be sung in all three registers, then maybe choose one note to show the difference between chest/head and then a higher one to show the difference between head/falsetto. What do you think?Yea, we actually had a "whats your range?" thread a few months ago. no big deal.

My usable range is from about the second E below middle c (if I were to do something slow and/or crooney) and up to C6, the second above middle C. To do anything up here would be slow also, or only as a trill or grace notes. Slow operatics maybe like Jeff buckley's Corpus Christi Carol. I start falsetto right around high A. Typical baritone. I wouldnt feel comfortable singing much falsetto past that G5 or A5. With a good warm up and practice I can get whistle notes all the way through to the next C, C7. By the way, if you've never heard of Adam Lopez check him out. World record holder. The poppy stuff is not my thing but the classical is cool. And the way he can make his voice sound like a violin is , well Incredible. go here. And scroll down. Be sure to listen to Georgia Brown as well. That stuff really makes me want to work on my whistle notes whenever I hear it. Dammit. http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.htmlWarning! Incredible voices on this page! Things like male soprano's in head voice! Warning.

I use to record a bit but I now have up and downstairs neighbors in my apartment. I hate that. Plus I work 12 hours third shift. But maybe I'll try to get something like this done.

Merkaba, would it be too much trouble if you could post a clip of you singing with some music maybe? My voice is completely different and relaxed when singing to music, but when I do excercises and such, it's strained and my range feels a lot smaller. I'm guessing that really shouldn't be the case.
Shouldnt be the case at all. Youre probably thinking too much and tensing up, trying to be too perfect. Relax, miss and crap out notes. Its ok.

I hope it isn't too much to ask, but I need a few suggestions.


Okay, I just recently started screaming. Now, I'm almost 100% sure that I'm not doing it the wrong way, because I warm up, I don't close my throat, and I make the rasp by air rolling up the back of the throat, before the chords.


Anyway, for some reason, I still experience some pain and discomfort during and after screaming, followed by increased mucous production after stopping all vocal activity. It doesn't last any longer than 12 hours, but it's a bitch.


Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks.
:lol: Keyword. Almost. Youre just not gonna get another answer out of me. You should never have pain or any kind of discomfort from singing or screaming. Maybe someone else, usually that doesnt have a clue, will say its ok for a little or this or that. There is something youre doing wrong. Pain and mucus....there's not many other signs until you do something more damaging! Back off...learn to rasp at 50% volume. Be sure as hell that youre warming DOWN as well. As far as I'm concerned you should never stop "vocal activity". I'm doing something all day long. Even if its very light. Of course I like to sing normally as well. Which most people don't seem to be interested in nowadays. And there is no way you should be clearing your throat that much or that hard to cause pain and mucus!

I'm new to the forum and i've read a lot of your scream posts, but i'm still having the hardest time screaming.
See i'm aiming for an underoath high pitch scream.
I've been doing some of your techniques like isolation and stuff but i still can't get it.
Is there some other way to do this?
Well, first you have to realize that that type of scream may be impossible for you.

Now that we've got that out of the way, remember there are basses, baritones, tenors, countertenors...etc. I'm familiar with Young and aspriring or whatever it is. That scream would probably be termed "falsetto scream" but I bet its a totally choked off raspy head. At least thats the position I would have to go to get it. Have you listened to the samples? Isolation is more of a concept. ITs not gonna really help you get a scream.

[Semple]

I think I may just be screaming too loud.

[crash_this]

Well, first you have to realize that that type of scream may be impossible for you.

Now that we've got that out of the way, remember there are basses, baritones, tenors, countertenors...etc. I'm familiar with Young and aspriring or whatever it is. That scream would probably be termed "falsetto scream" but I bet its a totally choked off raspy head. At least thats the position I would have to go to get it. Have you listened to the samples? Isolation is more of a concept. ITs not gonna really help you get a scream.

Alrihgt man thanks.
So i may never get that type of scream.
So basically your saying I have to stay in my range that I can achieve through whatever i am "bass, baritone etc"..Thanks I'll keep working on it and try what i can :)

[Merkaba]

Alrihgt man thanks.
So i may never get that type of scream.
So basically your saying I have to stay in my range that I can achieve through whatever i am "bass, baritone etc"..Thanks I'll keep working on it and try what i can :)
May or may not. Some people cant even access their head voice. So as far as we know you might not be either. Or you could be singing so incorrectly that youre cramping alot of your range. The thing is to try to sing the note youre trying to scream first. You gotta be able to sing it before you can add anything to it. Alot of people try so hard to blast a scream that they can't even get the note/tone they are trying to achieve. Maybe post a sample of you singing/screaming or whatever. Or preferably of you doing some rising scales from around middle C.

[LowExpectations]

Recently I've been experimenting with my voice, trying to open it up and attain use of it. I am no vocalist, and I have had no teaching of any kind, but I would very much like to have a voice to use when I need it.

http://www.soundclick.com/lowexpectations
The top song, (White Maple Monsters) is something I put together yesterday on a whim, its rather rough, but criticism and tips (perhaps bashing, if you feel so inclined, but I already know I have a long way to go) on my vocals would be very much appreciated. The instrumentals are also me (except for the drum machine.)

It's good to get help early on, so as to not develop bad habits and such. Also, is this something I should keep persuing? I don't want to spend too much time if I don't have some sort of potential for something good.

[Merkaba]

Recently I've been experimenting with my voice, trying to open it up and attain use of it. I am no vocalist, and I have had no teaching of any kind, but I would very much like to have a voice to use when I need it.

http://www.soundclick.com/lowexpectations
The top song, (White Maple Monsters) is something I put together yesterday on a whim, its rather rough, but criticism and tips (perhaps bashing, if you feel so inclined, but I already know I have a long way to go) on my vocals would be very much appreciated. The instrumentals are also me (except for the drum machine.)

It's good to get help early on, so as to not develop bad habits and such. Also, is this something I should keep persuing? I don't want to spend too much time if I don't have some sort of potential for something good.

Well i've heard way worse. Sounds like youre holding back a bit. And sounds like you just might be pushing your tongue root down which makes the sound kinda open sounding. This can be ok at times. But in general you should think about keeping your tongue relaxed and many times around your bottom front teeth. This is general stuff to give you an idea. By no means should you think about doing it all the time. But think about it and practice singing holding the ING sound. Sounds like your breath support is decent but could probably be better. I dont know how youre trying to sing either. But I would say practice doing an AH at speaking voice level. without moving anything at all. Just open your mouth and let it go. Keep practicing.

[crash_this]

May or may not. Some people cant even access their head voice. So as far as we know you might not be either. Or you could be singing so incorrectly that youre cramping alot of your range. The thing is to try to sing the note youre trying to scream first. You gotta be able to sing it before you can add anything to it. Alot of people try so hard to blast a scream that they can't even get the note/tone they are trying to achieve. Maybe post a sample of you singing/screaming or whatever. Or preferably of you doing some rising scales from around middle C.\

See I can't even sing really. Thats probably my first problem that I should fix haha

[Merkaba]

Definitely should be the first.

[adz_18]

My usable range is from about the second E below middle c (if I were to do something slow and/or crooney) and up to C6, the second above middle C. To do anything up here would be slow also, or only as a trill or grace notes. Slow operatics maybe like Jeff buckley's Corpus Christi Carol. I start falsetto right around high A. Typical baritone. I wouldnt feel comfortable singing much falsetto past that G5 or A5. With a good warm up and practice I can get whistle notes all the way through to the next C, C7. By the way, if you've never heard of Adam Lopez check him out. World record holder. The poppy stuff is not my thing but the classical is cool. And the way he can make his voice sound like a violin is , well Incredible. go here. And scroll down. Be sure to listen to Georgia Brown as well. That stuff really makes me want to work on my whistle notes whenever I hear it. Dammit. http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.htmlWarning! Incredible voices on this page! Things like male soprano's in head voice! Warning.


Yeah I've been checking out that site for quite a while. Very good site, and some unbelievable voices. The really low notes are also interesting - a phenomenon i believe is called 'vocal fry'.

But you have to tell me, that audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. What do you think?

Btw, impressive range, particularly that you can do the whistle register. Not only can i not do whistle register, but something i wouldn't even know how to begin doing lol

[Surgicalgod]

Merkaba, what's your top head voice note? I think you included falsetto in that range description, right?. A C6 in full voice is :eek:.

My whistle notes are improving a bit, but I'm not working on them at the moment seeing that I won't use them as much as head/mix voice. I can now get to an E6 comfortabley, but still it sounds like a squeak.

By the way, I know a guy over the internet who can sing a C8, possibly even higher. I know it's insane, I think I have a voice clip somewhere.

[adz_18]

"I start falsetto right around high A"

This would insinuate that his highest head voice note would generally be G# above middle C.

[golfguy]

sup merkaba, I listented to your voice recordings, very nice tutorial :D

Anyway I can sing to like E5 or F5 if I pull chest(go louder), but
if I'm just singing quietly I seem to have this bridge/transition at C5.

Then I have this thing above it where it sounds like im singing opera or
something, is that falsetto or something? I've been doing humming and stuff
trying to find head voice, shouldnt it be right after the chest voice ends
without straining(C5 for me).

[Steerpike]

I need a few tips. I read up all the required reading and have started to put it into practice, but I still have a few pitfalls. I'll describe it as best I can point by point, and if needed I can send uploads of particular songs I reference.

First off, I won't be able to get real vocal lessons until this fall, which is kind of a drag. Until then, I've been trying to ease into the routine, building up a clean voice until I could scream comfortably.

Inspired by Wuthering Heights' vocalist, Nils Patrick Johansson, I've been trying to build up a variety of styles and sounds to better express a variety of emotions. I'm a bass/baritone, which has made opening up my head voice a challenge, and my range is still somewhat limited. To compensate, I've been experimenting with a crooning clean singing style, harsh vocals, screams, and growls. I've decided to adamantly avoid the Cradle of Filth style of inhaling while vocalizing as I'd rather not step into territory that inherently risky. Even if I don't pursue singing as more than a hobby, I still have a powerful, distinctive speaking voice that I've already been taking great precautions to avoid damaging as it is a big asset to me.

My clean vocals are progressing well, though I'm still having trouble with falsetto and vibrato. I really could use some added advice in building up my head voice, as well as figuring out the source of vibrato so that I can actually do it right. I also have a hard rock voice that basically is a sort of lupine snarl. I'm fine for the first songs, but then I start to notice my vocal cords getting fatigued. Am I still just carrying too much tensions in my throat?

For harsh vocals, the rasp sometimes goes out on me toward the end of a line and it's more of a surly clean vocal style. At the moment, I have a sound like a deeper voiced Alexi Laiho or Petri Lindroos, but one bad habit I'm still trying to break is the fact that my tongue keep reaching toward the back of my throat and constricting the sound.

For my screams, progress is a little slower. Time and again I would come close to blowing my voice out and would stop at the first sign of any pain. I managed to get Michale Graves' scream from Helena by The Misfits, but the top and back of my throat keep tensing up creating a lot of uncomfortable pressure. Are there any specific exercises I can use to get past this?

The growling is a similar issue. I have a decent mid-range sound, but almost no low end. It comes out way too airy and with very little guttural rasp by comparison.

On the positive side, it's very easy for me to transition between styles, and it's becoming easier and easier every day to shift from my chest voice to the notes resonating in the nasal passages.

[GDan]

I just listen to Merkabas voice samples and I have a question. How loud are you singing?

To me it sounds kind of quieter than what I might expect from an all out scream, is that just due to the recording or are yo keeping the volume quite low intentionally?

I was just wondring if maybe I'm wasting energy trying to go loud to make it sound powerful and all out, Into a mic will a good deal of compression help it sound loud even if its pretty held back?

[Merkaba]

I just listen to Merkabas voice samples and I have a question. How loud are you singing?

To me it sounds kind of quieter than what I might expect from an all out scream, is that just due to the recording or are yo keeping the volume quite low intentionally?

I was just wondring if maybe I'm wasting energy trying to go loud to make it sound powerful and all out, Into a mic will a good deal of compression help it sound loud even if its pretty held back?
I wasnt too loud. I was doing most of that stuff at around 2 or so am. But it was optimally loud enough for a mic. I mean I wouldve pushed a little more If I were doing a serious recording, but with your mic at a decent level you dont even have to worry about compression....unless youre heading into a studio...in my opinion. If you havent sang into a mic in a while, in like a studio or stage setup, you'll probably realize that you dont have to push alot once you do. Maybe I'll post another if I can ever get off of my ***.

[are_we_art_fags]

hello...ive been doing my best to keep up with your little lessons things, and id like to say thank sfor the help.

ive been toying around with vocals for a bit just for something new really..ive been playing guitar for ages and adding vocals just makes it that much more enjoyable. however i dont know how to find my own voice. i can sing along to other artists (usually dallas green, radiohead..things of this sort) but i dont know how to find my own voice..the one that suits my vocal chords the best. im also having a hard time controlling my voice....somedays its good..other days its bad enough to make me put down the guitar haha.

so ill keep on your warm up examples and such and see where i can get with that and any extra info would be much appreciated.

thanks

[adz_18]

hey merkaba,

a while back i asked you to check out my bands page and let me know what you thought of the vocals that i sung in the song that was on the page... Well we've redone the vocals mixed it in with the existing instruments. I tried to do some of the things you said and i think it does sound better than the first effort. if you could have a listen and tell me what you reckon that'd be great. the website is http://www.myspace.com/opshopninja and it's the song 'colourblind'... thanks man.

[Merkaba]

hello...ive been doing my best to keep up with your little lessons things, and id like to say thank sfor the help.

ive been toying around with vocals for a bit just for something new really..ive been playing guitar for ages and adding vocals just makes it that much more enjoyable. however i dont know how to find my own voice. i can sing along to other artists (usually dallas green, radiohead..things of this sort) but i dont know how to find my own voice..the one that suits my vocal chords the best. im also having a hard time controlling my voice....somedays its good..other days its bad enough to make me put down the guitar haha.

so ill keep on your warm up examples and such and see where i can get with that and any extra info would be much appreciated.

thanks
If you can't find your own voice right now just continue to practice the best you can by singing others. For some that start off singing by mimmicking its the only way. Its like training wheels. I was the same way. Over time and various influences you find out what you can and can't do which helps you settle out. You can always practice by just not trying to match the singer youre mimmicking. I do it now when singing stuff out of my range because if you try to match everthing you will usually end up tensing things up. When I relax and say just sing it in your own voice, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS do better. Just continue to practice and relax and it will come when its ready. At least youre getting experience and working the cords. Again don't be afraid to push your limits as long as you have no hoarseness and no pain.

hey merkaba,

a while back i asked you to check out my bands page and let me know what you thought of the vocals that i sung in the song that was on the page... Well we've redone the vocals mixed it in with the existing instruments. I tried to do some of the things you said and i think it does sound better than the first effort. if you could have a listen and tell me what you reckon that'd be great. the website is http://www.myspace.com/opshopninja and it's the song 'colourblind'... thanks man.
Dude, from what I remember that, to me, sounds twice as good. Keep it up. Just think where you'll be after a while! I can tell youre working to hold the notes a little more stronger with some more support. Keep the lower jaw loose and come from the gut. Don't be afraid to sing even harder,(a bit over time)without rasp, and it will probably get even better. If you experience hoarseness or pain then you know you need to back off and reevaluate. Keep at it! Good job dude! :thumb:

[adz_18]

Dude, from what I remember that, to me, sounds twice as good. Keep it up. Just think where you'll be after a while! I can tell youre working to hold the notes a little more stronger with some more support. Keep the lower jaw loose and come from the gut. Don't be afraid to sing even harder,(a bit over time)without rasp, and it will probably get even better. If you experience hoarseness or pain then you know you need to back off and reevaluate. Keep at it! Good job dude! :thumb:

Cooool lol, that's always good to hear! Yeah I'm still trying to work on coming from the gut more. I think it's getting better but yeh still need to work on it. I'll keep doing the exercises you have outlined in other threads and hopefully things can keep improving. Thanks for your support/suggestions and time man!

[adz_18]

Oh yeah, I've been wondering if you could clarify this for me.... on that website http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html there's an audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. I generally think of head voice as highish in pitch but also with power, eg. chorus of 'livin on a prayer' by bon jovi, or many things sung by chris cornell or freddie mercury... Am I correct or am I missing something?

[Merkaba]

Oh yeah, I've been wondering if you could clarify this for me.... on that website http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html there's an audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. I generally think of head voice as highish in pitch but also with power, eg. chorus of 'livin on a prayer' by bon jovi, or many things sung by chris cornell or freddie mercury... Am I correct or am I missing something?
hehe, well I wouldnt really call it a contradiction, just a rarity. When I first heard it I thought the same thing but after trying to, what I call, study it I think it is head. But If you go to his site he has a few samples and Its easier to hear that its true voice.

[Peg Dizzler]

Hey Merk, what's new? :)

I got myself a vocal mic, an MXL 990. And a Behringer tube preamp for the phantom power, and the warm tube sound. I love it! Now I just need to find a vocal teacher damnit :angry:

So I'm still having trouble moving the larynx around. I finished reading the Rock N Roll Singers Survival Guide book, it gave some advice on that, but I couldn't seem to stop it from moving. =( It did help with other tension though; now I realize that raising the eyebrows, tensing the forehead, jaw, etc... it's all bad! I, myself, had a habit of raising the eyebrows, as well as my chin, on higher notes.

So you think a vocal teacher could really help me with this problem? Or, should I just buy a few more books =P Like Jim Gillette's "Metal Power" or whatever, it seems like that might direct me toward the style I like... plus I know that guy has one hell of a range!

[adz_18]

Yeah fair enough, I might go check that out.

Speaking of rarities, check this out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4853432.stm and then click on the link where it says "Listen to the "last castrato", Alessandro Moreschi, recorded in 1902."

As the link suggests, it's the only known recording of a castrato. However, from many accounts this guy was by no means the best castrato going around, in fact many said he was just average or mediocre... but still, there is something about this recording that is just really haunting, even depressing.

and F**K that must have hurt!

[Peg Dizzler]

rawr

[Merkaba]

Yeah fair enough, I might go check that out.

Speaking of rarities, check this out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4853432.stm and then click on the link where it says "Listen to the "last castrato", Alessandro Moreschi, recorded in 1902."

As the link suggests, it's the only known recording of a castrato. However, from many accounts this guy was by no means the best castrato going around, in fact many said he was just average or mediocre... but still, there is something about this recording that is just really haunting, even depressing.

and F**K that must have hurt!
Yea, when I first heard about the castrati I thought it was fake. Like it was just a joke or more of an "urban legend". Then I would see more and more and finally looked into it and thought..yes...ouch. That would suck, no slight pun intended. Talk about getting whored out by your parents!

I checked out that link. I kept thinking, gosh it doesnt sound all that great for opera....then my brain would say....its a 44 year old man...then I would say...holy shlt! I could imagine how he might have sounded at say, 24. And to think that he was just the "run of the mill" castrati.

[Merkaba]

Hey Merk, what's new? :)

I got myself a vocal mic, an MXL 990. And a Behringer tube preamp for the phantom power, and the warm tube sound. I love it! Now I just need to find a vocal teacher damnit :angry:

So I'm still having trouble moving the larynx around. I finished reading the Rock N Roll Singers Survival Guide book, it gave some advice on that, but I couldn't seem to stop it from moving. =( It did help with other tension though; now I realize that raising the eyebrows, tensing the forehead, jaw, etc... it's all bad! I, myself, had a habit of raising the eyebrows, as well as my chin, on higher notes.

So you think a vocal teacher could really help me with this problem? Or, should I just buy a few more books =P Like Jim Gillette's "Metal Power" or whatever, it seems like that might direct me toward the style I like... plus I know that guy has one hell of a range!Woa! Sounds like a decent setu up. You'll have to post some samples soon!
Same ol' same ol' here. I'm still looking for a freaking band! Everyone either wants to do hardcore or punk/pop. Sux.

I wouldnt worry about the larynx. I mean it will limit you a bit, but remember its gonna move, especially as you go up in pitch. And if youre in falsetto and trying to give it any resonance its gonna rise a little. I would say a vocal teacher probably wouldnt make it there chief concern and would be worried more about how you sound, and could probably tell if your larynx is affecting your vowels by how you sound in and around your natural range. But yes the tension thing is more of a thing to watch out for and work on.

[Peg Dizzler]

Woa! Sounds like a decent setu up. You'll have to post some samples soon!
Same ol' same ol' here. I'm still looking for a freaking band! Everyone either wants to do hardcore or punk/pop. Sux.

I wouldnt worry about the larynx. I mean it will limit you a bit, but remember its gonna move, especially as you go up in pitch. And if youre in falsetto and trying to give it any resonance its gonna rise a little. I would say a vocal teacher probably wouldnt make it there chief concern and would be worried more about how you sound, and could probably tell if your larynx is affecting your vowels by how you sound in and around your natural range. But yes the tension thing is more of a thing to watch out for and work on.
Cool! Thanks for the advice, mang.

Still lookin for a band eh? Hardcore and pop-punk? What else is new.. seems like "those kind" of bands are a dime a dozen across our country.

[Peg Dizzler]

Well I haven't recorded any vox through my new mic, at least not any recording takes that I saved. :p
But I just got done recording a reeeally bad drum take. If you're interested. I'm actually very impressed by the sound quality!! The mic is just kind of pointing at the drumset over top...

Anyway, I just got this $60 drumkit 2 days ago, never played drums much before so yer I truly suck. The kit is the biggest piece of junk I've ever seen, cymbals are all busted, no hi-hat pedal, no bass pedal... so yes, I gotta kick drum, quite literally. Forgive me. :( haha
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=579904B921D5CAAA

[Merkaba]

Hey Merkaba,
New to this forum, was browsing the net while at work for some singing tips and came accross this site.
After reading what you wrote you pointed out alot of things not many did when trying to give me tips in the past.
Im a songwriter/singer, and ive noticed my singing has changed drastically in the last year or so. I think im picking up bad habbits while singing.
I listen to some old demo recordings and compare them to recent recordings, and although the playing of the music is better, and sound like i have much more confidence in my voice than the beginning, im not able to hit the notes I used to, or without great strain.

If you'd like to have a listen to a few bedroom demo's of just me and the acoustic, ranging from 3 years ago to present, and give some suggestions or insight on the situation.

Email me if you are interested.

Thanks again for a great thread,

Brandon
Primary Orange
primaryorange@rogers.com

Well I'd rather you post them here. That way others can chime in, and plus I'm usually so busy that it kinda clutters me up, or i would think so. I don't think I've ever emailed anyone off of this site. Not that I wouldnt but try to post them here or to a download site.

[~*+|+*~]

bump...

[Psycho182]

hey merkaba, do you think you could help me w/ learning to scream without me having to come on these forums? im not very much a computer person to come and check this stuff so often

my AIM is Feelthefunkk and my email is guitarist4life75@gmail.


i left a post here a long time ago and they told me to come here, but i'd rather you just listen to a really horrible track and tell me what sounds wrong.

[panthersfan16]

Hey merk, I've read all your stuff faithfully and have been practicing it for over a year now. About 2 months ago I finally got a band together doing some metal. Now my falsetto screams are effortless and sound awesome, but all the guys hate it when I do some Slipknot-ish screams. They like them when I "balls to the wall" scream, but it kills my voice and often leaves me mute for a day or two if i do it for a whole set. When i do proper technique they tell me it sounds strained and gay, even though I'm much more relaxed and not straining.

Basically, does a scream as good as Corey Taylor have to be born with you or can you somehow develop it? My singing teacher has been no help, she just says "uh, heres a scale, lets strengthen your falsetto" which makes no sense to me...

[(H@mm3R-0f-Th3-G0D$)]

this is kinda turnin into a different thread i know. great job merk. those links helped a lot with my singing. anyone agree there should be a vocal sub-forum?

[Merkaba]

Hey merk, I've read all your stuff faithfully and have been practicing it for over a year now. About 2 months ago I finally got a band together doing some metal. Now my falsetto screams are effortless and sound awesome, but all the guys hate it when I do some Slipknot-ish screams. They like them when I "balls to the wall" scream, but it kills my voice and often leaves me mute for a day or two if i do it for a whole set. When i do proper technique they tell me it sounds strained and gay, even though I'm much more relaxed and not straining.

Basically, does a scream as good as Corey Taylor have to be born with you or can you somehow develop it? My singing teacher has been no help, she just says "uh, heres a scale, lets strengthen your falsetto" which makes no sense to me...
Thought I had replied earlier. I dont think you have to be born with it. But you will have to have or develop a strong system. Some people just have fallen into doing it luckily or just because. I always say the best way to learn and know the feel of a strong scream like that is sing in high head, normally. And adding more and more difficulty/push while trying to keep the tone. If youre mute for a day or half a day youre really hurting yourself. Remember that these "balls to the wall" screams often times sound way way more harsh then they really are because of the technique. You can get a good scream without 100% push. Most vocal teachers arent going down a rock path because its not the best thing for the cords. You should look for a teacher that specializes in aggressive or rock styles.

hey merkaba, do you think you could help me w/ learning to scream without me having to come on these forums? im not very much a computer person to come and check this stuff so often

my AIM is Feelthefunkk and my email is guitarist4life75@gmail.


i left a post here a long time ago and they told me to come here, but i'd rather you just listen to a really horrible track and tell me what sounds wrong.
Wouldnt be fair because I've turned down so many others for "personal" help over email. I just don't have the time. Plus I'd just be repeating what I usually repeat in here for everyone else.

[Merkaba]

bump...tired of looking for the dam thing. Just added it to my menu bar though. :cool:

[tatsu]

Hey Merkaba. Been letting go abit on the screams, and found a fuller sound. There are some clean recordings here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=388240
And, some older ones to add contrast. There's also a few songs I wouldn't mind comments on, but I know where I stand in terms of singing. Not so well. The title "Almost here" was from awhile back, it's in a weak head tone, and the new ones are in a weak chest tone, but I'm out of practice, it's been a month since my last lesson, and I haven't been practicing. It's more like an excuse for my poor voice. Sorry. Anyways, I'd love some feedback. Merci en avance.

[FunkyMunky]

this is an awesome thread

[Merkaba]

Hey Merkaba. Been letting go abit on the screams, and found a fuller sound. There are some clean recordings here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=388240
And, some older ones to add contrast. There's also a few songs I wouldn't mind comments on, but I know where I stand in terms of singing. Not so well. The title "Almost here" was from awhile back, it's in a weak head tone, and the new ones are in a weak chest tone, but I'm out of practice, it's been a month since my last lesson, and I haven't been practicing. It's more like an excuse for my poor voice. Sorry. Anyways, I'd love some feedback. Merci en avance.
Sorry so late....
The screams sound good. I would practice on getting the same tone with less push...sounds like youre straining a bit but only you know that. As far as the singing, Practice motor boats. Youre not pressurizing the lungs,diaphragm enough it sounds like to me, causing the sound to be thinner in some spots. Sounds like you've got a good set up. I bet a few lessons would set you right. You need a bit of pitch correction but that comes with time and practice.

[slpntrx5]

sorry if this has been asked before, but when i scream properly (dont even know if i am or not), where in the throat should i be able to feel it? again, sorry if im beating a dead horse.

[Merkaba]

Dont think about your throat. You probably wont feel much from a well placed note. You'll feel more in your chest or your head as previously stated by a few of us. Sometimes I'll hit a head note that is almost uncomfortable due to the resonance in my head. If I didnt have upstairs and downstairs neighbors now I'd post some. Theres one note thats in one of my favorite esthero songs thats not all that high but is wonderful to sing. I may post that. Anyways...think more about a loose lower jaw as your sound manipulator. And think about your diaphragm. If youre unfamiliar go to the first page and look at coming from the gut, and do those lip trills/motorboats.

Try to think about the feeling of saying Ahh for the doctor when you sing.

[i am the robots]

Speaking of head notes (I don't know terminology very well), would that be the higher notes? Like the ones that make my eyes feel a bit of pressure, but nothing else?

That happens when I scream really high.

[Merkaba]

Speaking of head notes (I don't know terminology very well), would that be the higher notes? Like the ones that make my eyes feel a bit of pressure, but nothing else?

That happens when I scream really high.
Youre just not gonna feel the resonance in a scream due to all the pressure and jumbled vibrations of the rasp. And no it wont feel like pressure. More of a vibration, around the temple area. Youre probably just feeling the results of the internal pressure of pushing hard. Like you would when taking a dump....a dry, non raison bran dump. :cool:

[spoon_of_grimbo]

i've been giving the screaming/growling thing a go, and about the only thing i can pull off is very low black metal barks, (and also chris cornell style singing, i sang Cochise at a gig recently, pretty much hit all the notes), so im going to concentrate on melodic singing.

just as a pointer, bearing in mind i can sing note-perfect (according to those who've heard me) "easy" by commodores (altho i sing to the faith no more cover), what other songs can you recommend for strengthening my vocals and range?

[christophicus]

Why isnt this thread stickied ??? It really should be , it seams to be quite helpfull.

[Merkaba]

yea it used to be, along with a few other popular threads. The mod gods changed some stuff around. I might ask if it can get stickied again. But we do have the official singing thread uptop now soo...

[Safety Chaser]

Ummm... Merk, I've posted an example of my scream on the offical voice thread thing. I was kinda confused on which on to post it on. Just to let you.

I just need advice. Lol

[Chameleon]

Hey Merkaba, do you have any examples of you singing normally, as opposed to screaming?

[Chrisman69]

hey i got a question man :)

i sing with some rasp, against me! style. but to be able to do get the raspy sound, i have to be singing for a while first. usualy after singing a few songs at the very top of my range the raspy stuff just naturaly sets in. but ive found that even if i warm up for an hour i cant get the rasp, i have to sing high and really loud for 10-15 minutes before i can get any kind of rasp.

this is lame because the only way i can warm up for a show or something is to go into the bathroom or something and yell randomly for like 10 mins. which can be embarrising and im guessing not to great for my voice.

so is there any way i get this sound without just screaming my *** off?

thanks :)

[Merkaba]

hey i got a question man :)

i sing with some rasp, against me! style. but to be able to do get the raspy sound, i have to be singing for a while first. usualy after singing a few songs at the very top of my range the raspy stuff just naturaly sets in. but ive found that even if i warm up for an hour i cant get the rasp, i have to sing high and really loud for 10-15 minutes before i can get any kind of rasp.

this is lame because the only way i can warm up for a show or something is to go into the bathroom or something and yell randomly for like 10 mins. which can be embarrising and im guessing not to great for my voice.

so is there any way i get this sound without just screaming my *** off?

thanks :)
I can't offer you more than what I've said in this thread. Namely, to quickly review:

Screaming or yelling is NOT a warmup and probably kills your longevity. read the warm up sections.

Any screaming sound can be done with 80% or less of push. You just have to be able to balance out the note while blocking the airflow a bit with the false cords and larynx. And of course proper breath support is vital. You shouldnt even really have to think much about your throat. There are no quick tricks but it will take practice. Again, try to get a decent sounding scream by barely pushing. This will help you isolate the things that produce the sound. Its not about force and push its about technique.

[panthersfan16]

I'm sure this has been asked before but the thread is too large to search through using dial up :( if you have a link to an answer you could just post that, but here goes...

What technique does Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden) use, how do you do it (like what is going on inside), and what exercises can be done to learn how to do this. I thought a long time ago I heard that he somehow bridges his chest voice and falsetto but i have no idea how this could be possibly done...

[Merkaba]

I'm sure this has been asked before but the thread is too large to search through using dial up :( if you have a link to an answer you could just post that, but here goes...

What technique does Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden) use, how do you do it (like what is going on inside), and what exercises can be done to learn how to do this. I thought a long time ago I heard that he somehow bridges his chest voice and falsetto but i have no idea how this could be possibly done...
lol...thats a good one...bridging chest voice with falsetto? Bruce used a good bit of "supported falsetto" which basically means a strong falsetto. You've got to have good breath control of course. chest voice is your lowest voice you do know that? You've got to be able to get into head voice(which is not falsetto) in order to get a feel for adding pressure to big high notes. You should post a sample of you doing an upward gliss, or basically one long connected note from your lowest to your highest. And maybe a downward gliss. Do you know what head voice is, and can you acess your head voice? Chest, head, falsetto. The three main registers. Some seem to get this confused.

Whats going on inside? The same then that your cords are doing when you try to hit that note except his are either less blocked, with a more open larynx, supported and relaxed, or all of the above. Trust me, the cords are relaxed even if the sound is tense. That comes from overpushing air through and scraping it off a slightly closed throat.

If youre talking about his normal singing then thats just pushed vocals.

[panthersfan16]

So then he is in falsetto? Because he hits some really high notes that, being right inbetween a tenor and baritone, seem to be unthinkable for me in head voice.

So to get this reinforced falsetto you basically have to just practice it a lot and push a ton of air when you are singing, thats what im getting from this, correct me if im wrong

BTW all of your singing tips and stuff are the only reason im not mute and my famliy isnt deaf, just want to say thank you.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Bruce pulls up chest voice quite a bit, especially lately. He also is pretty good at mixing chest and head voice for higher full voiced notes. On Where Eagles Dare, the DARES before the instrumental breaks are all a strong mix of chest and head voice which is called mix.

[adz_18]

yo merk,

haven't posted in a while, but still been reading what others have to say. your posts are still as insightful as ever - good stuff!

I do have 2 questions though:

1. Lately when I've been singing, I've found that when i'm singing in my higher range (in head i would assume it to be, definitely not falsetto) so around the E-G above middle C range, I'm finding that quite often my voice temporarily "breaks" (into falsetto i assume?). This has been happening lately because for the higher notes i'm trying to be careful not to push too hard (so as to not rasp the note because I want to sing it cleanly) and also not to cause fatigue/hoarseness but as a consequence at times my voices breaks, and this happened a couple of times in our last two shows, which i was told sounded terrible/funny. Do you have any suggestions to overcome this problem of my voice breaking in the higher regions of my range?

2. I was wondering how the hell James Hetfield of Metallica could sing any of the songs off any of the albums up to and including The Black Album without screwing up his voice? Songs like Master of Puppets, Battery, One, For Whom the Bells Tolls etc. seem to place an immense strain on his voice... I can sing along to them (kinda), but only in a clean style. How does he get that general bassy/gruff sound (it makes high notes sound lower than they are) without screwin up his voice? I know you have to keep everything relaxed etc. but when I try to do it it just comes out terrible.

Thanks

[Merkaba]

So then he is in falsetto? Because he hits some really high notes that, being right inbetween a tenor and baritone, seem to be unthinkable for me in head voice.

So to get this reinforced falsetto you basically have to just practice it a lot and push a ton of air when you are singing, thats what im getting from this, correct me if im wrong

BTW all of your singing tips and stuff are the only reason im not mute and my famliy isnt deaf, just want to say thank you.
Well you don't want to make the classic mistake of thinking that you have to push a ton of air for higher notes. Its the pressure you want. Its almost like when you try to catch a sneeze before it gets out. ITs the diaphragm, you want it to be kinda in balance with the cords so that they are kinda playing off of each other. Think about them as being book ends or if you were to pick up twenty books off of a shelf. If you dont equalize the pressure on each side then whats in the middle, in this case the air for your cords, goes to shlt. Remember you don't want to blow out a candle if its in front of you. Even with screams.

[hotpants_67]

merk what happened to the soundclips?

[chorbalan]

Sorry I didn't see this thread so I will post this here too, I will delete the other post if I have to.

Merkaba, I don't know if you know anything about clean vocals, but I have been playing guitar for a while, and I would like to learn to do some vocals as well. The trouble is I am god awful :( . I can't seem to keep in key and am just in generally a bad singer. Do you have any suggestions for practicing to eventually at least be able to sing in key? Thanks.

[Merkaba]

merk what happened to the soundclips?
They are still around the last time I checked...but someone else said the link had changed or something. I'll look into it.

I'm a "classically-trained" soprano... and for the most part, I love my voice as it is, but there are times/songs when I would love to be more of a "belter". So how do I go from sweetly stratospheric to a low, rich, "Judy Garland" sound?Breath support, which I'm sure you have, is key. But if youre a soprano and youre trying to sing a bit lower and forcefully it will take some practice. If you can sing the notes normally then you shouldnt have any problem singing them forcefully if you don't tense up the throat, which is someowhat of a natural tendency since clamping off the area is wanted when doing so many other high power moves with the diaphragm used to keep internal pressure, like straining or pushing a heavy object. So in these cases you have to isolate everything from everything and learn to use that power while keeping the throat open and relaxed. I'm sure you know most of that... Just remember its more about technique than power and push.


Sorry I didn't see this thread so I will post this here too, I will delete the other post if I have to.

Merkaba, I don't know if you know anything about clean vocals, but I have been playing guitar for a while, and I would like to learn to do some vocals as well. The trouble is I am god awful :( . I can't seem to keep in key and am just in generally a bad singer. Do you have any suggestions for practicing to eventually at least be able to sing in key? Thanks.


yea..you obviously haven't read this thread.

[Merkaba]

yo merk,

haven't posted in a while, but still been reading what others have to say. your posts are still as insightful as ever - good stuff!

I do have 2 questions though:

1. Lately when I've been singing, I've found that when i'm singing in my higher range (in head i would assume it to be, definitely not falsetto) so around the E-G above middle C range, I'm finding that quite often my voice temporarily "breaks" (into falsetto i assume?). This has been happening lately because for the higher notes i'm trying to be careful not to push too hard (so as to not rasp the note because I want to sing it cleanly) and also not to cause fatigue/hoarseness but as a consequence at times my voices breaks, and this happened a couple of times in our last two shows, which i was told sounded terrible/funny. Do you have any suggestions to overcome this problem of my voice breaking in the higher regions of my range?
Make sure youre well warmed up. And are you over 18? If youre young we all know what that could mean. But it could also be a tension thing. Be sure you not tensing anything up in the throat area. If all else fails go back to rudiments. Do simple scales and glisses on an easy push to get the muscle memory retrained. If your voice mechanisms are tired or if you have a lack or sleep it can really haunt you around your natural break. Do you know exactly where your natural break occurs? You should have it down to within a semitone. You really need to know that.

2. I was wondering how the hell James Hetfield of Metallica could sing any of the songs off any of the albums up to and including The Black Album without screwing up his voice? Songs like Master of Puppets, Battery, One, For Whom the Bells Tolls etc. seem to place an immense strain on his voice... I can sing along to them (kinda), but only in a clean style. How does he get that general bassy/gruff sound (it makes high notes sound lower than they are) without screwin up his voice? I know you have to keep everything relaxed etc. but when I try to do it it just comes out terrible.

Thanks
He just does the typical stuff I talk about in this thread and all the rasp threads. Its false vocal cord/larynx tricks. You partially close off the false cords, the "annk" wrong answer part of the apparatus mainly. You should be able to get rasp at minimal push. Its all we talk about. Same thing. So for him he's just singing normally, with not alot more push than he needs for whatever emotion, while adding this rasp. So the cords are not being punished like it sounds, only the sound after the cords is. He may do it naturally but it can be learned.

[chorbalan]

yea..you obviously haven't read this thread.

It's 41 pages long....

[redrumsixsix6]

maybe somebody could help me. Ive been screaming for a quite a while now (maybe more than a year) and its always worked well. but latley i just cant do it. i dont know why, but it just wont work. ive had a sore throat for about 1.5 weeks but i dont think its from screaming since ppl around me have been getting sore throars lately. The thing is, ive never had sore throat make it so i cant scream at all, So im thinking that maybe its not the sore throat thats making me not able to scream. anyway, when i try to scream as i would normaly it just wont work. my voice will sound small and not really resemble a scream at all. It will just sound like im almost choking. i think the best way to describe it is it feels like my throat wont make the right shift anymore but im not doing anything different. I have some recordings of my band where i scream so maybe you guys could listen and tell me if it sounds like i was doing something wrong the whole time. http://www.myspace.com/alesserevil listen to without you. (screaming will be in the chorus.) thanks in advance for any responses!!!


oh and sinse myspace sucks you can use purevolume too http://www.purevolume.com/alesserevil

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

It's 41 pages long....


the first page man

[chorbalan]

the first page man

Yes I found it. I suck i'm sorry.

[Merkaba]

It's 41 pages long....
.....and?
Mark Baxter's Rock and roll singers survival manual is over 200. I've read it. No I'm not Mark but....Whats 41 pages?Plus by the time you make it half way through, you've realized the questions and answers have started repeating....kinda like right now!
the first page man
Yes I found it. I suck i'm sorry.:rolleyes:

yea..you obviously haven't read this thread.
Not even the first page!
:rolleyes:

[i am the robots]

maybe somebody could help me. Ive been screaming for a quite a while now (maybe more than a year) and its always worked well. but latley i just cant do it. i dont know why, but it just wont work. ive had a sore throat for about 1.5 weeks but i dont think its from screaming since ppl around me have been getting sore throars lately. The thing is, ive never had sore throat make it so i cant scream at all, So im thinking that maybe its not the sore throat thats making me not able to scream. anyway, when i try to scream as i would normaly it just wont work. my voice will sound small and not really resemble a scream at all. It will just sound like im almost choking. i think the best way to describe it is it feels like my throat wont make the right shift anymore but im not doing anything different. I have some recordings of my band where i scream so maybe you guys could listen and tell me if it sounds like i was doing something wrong the whole time. http://www.myspace.com/alesserevil listen to without you. (screaming will be in the chorus.) thanks in advance for any responses!!!


oh and sinse myspace sucks you can use purevolume too http://www.purevolume.com/alesserevil

Maybe just try giving your voice a break. Also, if your throat's not making the right shift, maybe you should try paying more attention to just keeping it open and pushing from your gut.

From your screams, it definately sounds far too throaty. Remember, creating the rasp is from the air rushing, not from your throat, you don't want to create white noise by smacking your chords together, which is what happens when you squeeze your throat to get the scream, get in touch with your diaphragm for your screams, take deep breaths and clench that area for the rush.

[SixStringKing]

Hey, ive just started screaming/singing heavy metal.. and well i suck.. my voice is REALLY weak.. im not quite sure what to do.. or what exactly is wrong with it.. so i dont know what to work on.. i am going for a more hard rock then death metal scream. a more atreyu or trivium esque sound..

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B8OPLMVL

theres a clip of a song im working on with screaming in it.. any comments... suggestions.. or anything to help me out? what to work on.. what not to do.. i dont know.. tear me a new one.. please thanks

[GolDfingeRNoFXRaNc|D]

Hey .. First of all .. sorry if that question asked before ... this thread has almost 50 pages, it was kinda hard to find what i m looking for.
I want to ask the Mr. Merkabas.... how can i find my true identity like a singer.
I am guitarist and drummer for many years, i used to play covers and mimicking the singers voices very succesfull .. now when i m trying to sing my own songs i sound like S**T and the weirdest thing is that , my voice it can be very high (ex. All American Rejects) and very low (like Eve6 or Lit) do i have to stick just in one style ? i sound like 2 different singers when i sing high and then low ... :/ and its kinda silly if i use both for my own songs.

some tips for you to help me out

when i sing AAR i can show more power than the low rockish style of Eve6/Lit sometimes i have some problems in the highest notes of AAR but i know that i can master them with practice.
Now with the Eve6/Lit style i have more confidence in myself plus my vibrato works much better when i sing low. That gives more points to Eve6 style right ? but still... i dont like it because i dont wanna be another ordinary rock vocalist, there are so many with this kind of voice.

Helpppppp pleaseeeeeeee ....


ps. hope u understand my english :)

[christophicus]

Just try and sing in the voice that you normally speak in that should be your true voice.(i think)

[Kierz]

Any tips on how to sing like Matt bellamy from muse? I know that he is definately one of the most elite vocalists out there, but if you have any tips on how to pull these kind of vocals off then i would greatly appreciate your help.

Thanks

[Merkaba]

Hey .. First of all .. sorry if that question asked before ... this thread has almost 50 pages, it was kinda hard to find what i m looking for.
I want to ask the Mr. Merkabas.... how can i find my true identity like a singer.
I am guitarist and drummer for many years, i used to play covers and mimicking the singers voices very succesfull .. now when i m trying to sing my own songs i sound like S**T and the weirdest thing is that , my voice it can be very high (ex. All American Rejects) and very low (like Eve6 or Lit) do i have to stick just in one style ? i sound like 2 different singers when i sing high and then low ... :/ and its kinda silly if i use both for my own songs.

some tips for you to help me out

when i sing AAR i can show more power than the low rockish style of Eve6/Lit sometimes i have some problems in the highest notes of AAR but i know that i can master them with practice.
Now with the Eve6/Lit style i have more confidence in myself plus my vibrato works much better when i sing low. That gives more points to Eve6 style right ? but still... i dont like it because i dont wanna be another ordinary rock vocalist, there are so many with this kind of voice.

Helpppppp pleaseeeeeeee ....


ps. hope u understand my english :)

Well truth be told...most rock voices are "ordinary". It will just take some experimentation to know what youre capable of but you wouldnt just put yourself into one particular voice or style. Youre probably kinda in the middle of the road, light baritone maybe if you can get up decently high without falsetto.

If you can sing, then just experiment with your voice and delivery. some songs in a certain key might require you to sing lower. If you did everything in an upper range, then that would be rather monotonous. It can be a blessing in disguise to have your "problem" because it means your voice is probably not restricted to a low voice or a high voice, but kinda lets you walk between the worlds.

There are no tricks. I would say just practice singing stuff acappella, with no music, and that can help you find "your own" voice as they say. But really, someone will always find someone to compare you to, so just relax and let your emotional relationship to the music at hand guide you. Stay open like Ahhh for the doctor cause if you pinch the throat you can kiss consistency goodbye. And maybe backoff the push about 20% to experiment, when youre going for you upper third range. Most people pinch the throat and overpush because they think higher notes meant higher push and higher squeeze, but you should really think about higher notes meaning less push and less squeeze so that you only "flip" into your higher notes, as they say. It should feel more like rolling up into your range.

[Merkaba]

Any tips on how to sing like Matt bellamy from muse? I know that he is definately one of the most elite vocalists out there, but if you have any tips on how to pull these kind of vocals off then i would greatly appreciate your help.

Thanks
I listened to Knights of Cydonia on youtube. Not much going on in that song. He has a good voice but he's just singing. I think he has a naturally light voice....probably a baritone or maybe a baritenor. If youre talking about this song's type of delivery then youre just talking about breath control. Any other songs of theirs youre talking about?

[Kierz]

Yea, i think New Born has quite a good vocal range and so does Bliss.
I have been told that falsetto is used frequently and have picked up on this. I can handle the falsetto but have trouble with the actual singing.

Also Thom Yorke from Radiohead has a similar, light tone.

[GolDfingeRNoFXRaNc|D]

Well truth be told...most rock voices are "ordinary". It will just take some experimentation to know what youre capable of but you wouldnt just put yourself into one particular voice or style. Youre probably kinda in the middle of the road, light baritone maybe if you can get up decently high without falsetto.

If you can sing, then just experiment with your voice and delivery. some songs in a certain key might require you to sing lower. If you did everything in an upper range, then that would be rather monotonous. It can be a blessing in disguise to have your "problem" because it means your voice is probably not restricted to a low voice or a high voice, but kinda lets you walk between the worlds.

There are no tricks. I would say just practice singing stuff acappella, with no music, and that can help you find "your own" voice as they say. But really, someone will always find someone to compare you to, so just relax and let your emotional relationship to the music at hand guide you. Stay open like Ahhh for the doctor cause if you pinch the throat you can kiss consistency goodbye. And maybe backoff the push about 20% to experiment, when youre going for you upper third range. Most people pinch the throat and overpush because they think higher notes meant higher push and higher squeeze, but you should really think about higher notes meaning less push and less squeeze so that you only "flip" into your higher notes, as they say. It should feel more like rolling up into your range.


thanks man for your advices :thumb: i think now i m on my way to find my true identity as a singer. I ll keep on practicing ofcourse :) I ve tried to sing acappella in my car 2day (its embarassing at home :rolleyes: ) and it was really helpfull, i m starting to like my own voice, enough with the "mimicking technique"

thanks again :thumb:

[Bleeding Through]

Well, I posted in this thread a long time ago, and I finally got a recording. Not the best quality in the world, but I followed Merk's advice and I'm fairly happy with the result.

http://media.putfile.com/The-Never-Ending-Hell

The growls and screams don't tax my throat at all, so I think I've got it down.

[SixnStones]

I've been skimming through this thread, and trying to find this but cdnt, sorry.

I've never done any proper singing before. As far as singing just as a normal day to day thing, i would say i'm "average to poor". I'm 17. Should I give up hope now? or can i start learning to sing (can't afford lessons...) at this stage?

And how? plz?

Sorry if this has been addressed a billion times

6

[Toaster]

Well, I posted in this thread a long time ago, and I finally got a recording. Not the best quality in the world, but I followed Merk's advice and I'm fairly happy with the result.

http://media.putfile.com/The-Never-Ending-Hell

The growls and screams don't tax my throat at all, so I think I've got it down.
Woooah man. Those screams sound like they hurt. I'm not doubting you at all, I'm just saying, if they sound like they hurt, people won't want to hear them.. no matter how good they feel.

The growls are nice sounding, pretty much exactly how they should sound. Have you tried pushing harder and just using that same rasp to scream? You have a drastically different style for screaming and growling, and it shows.

[Bleeding Through]

Woooah man. Those screams sound like they hurt. I'm not doubting you at all, I'm just saying, if they sound like they hurt, people won't want to hear them.. no matter how good they feel.

The growls are nice sounding, pretty much exactly how they should sound. Have you tried pushing harder and just using that same rasp to scream? You have a drastically different style for screaming and growling, and it shows.

Yeah, I know....it's kind of crazy. It's not the best recording in the world, and the high screams do sound like they are ripping my throat to shreds. They really don't though, and I'm not pushing that hard to get that kind of sound.

I've tried going to a more uniform sound in terms of screaming and growling, but anything other than what I'm doing causes pain. I have an unusual voice I guess. If you heard my speaking voice, you wouldn't think I could make a growl like that. :p

[Wag of the Finger]

Hey guys.. I've got a midterm-like thing coming up for a class where I need to sing... now the problem is I've never really sung before, and I was practicing and came to the conclusion that I suck. bad. Like I can't hit notes/sing in key/make it sound decent without it sounding really forced. Anybody have any exercises or whatever I could do to work on this? I've tried syncing up with my guitar, but I failed at that too.:upset:

I've skimmed this thread, and i probably missed alot, but if someone could throw some sort of ultra-beginner help me way, that'd be swell. Thanks

[Merkaba]

Hey guys.. I've got a midterm-like thing coming up for a class where I need to sing... now the problem is I've never really sung before, and I was practicing and came to the conclusion that I suck. bad. Like I can't hit notes/sing in key/make it sound decent without it sounding really forced. Anybody have any exercises or whatever I could do to work on this? I've tried syncing up with my guitar, but I failed at that too.:upset:

I've skimmed this thread, and i probably missed alot, but if someone could throw some sort of ultra-beginner help me way, that'd be swell. Thanks

YOU FAIL AT SINGING!!!!!:wave:

[Merkaba]

Just kidding... Well you should keep practicing with the guitar and making scales. I'm betting youre tensing up your throat to some degree because it's so common to new singers. Be sure youre not overpushing, it doesnt take alot of push to sing, and make sure youre keeping your throat open kinda like youre saying ahh for the doctor. Its a good practice to sing ahhs as your first warmup vowel and just do melodies on ahh to help practice because its just one of those shapes that you can't make without being open. Be sure youre "coming from the gut" as well. If youre not sure then look up that section on the first page and do the motor boat drills. Best wishes. Oh and post a sample if you can.

[RedDragon642]

Okay, I just joined the forums tonight because its pretty much the greatest thing ever. I would love to be able to sing/scream because I've been doing it forever, just like by myself, and now im convinced that im probably doing it wrong because i have never even thought about technique...I just sing. So i need to start from the beginning. But...all the links at the beginning of this thread are broken. So where do I start?

Sorry if im the millionth person to mention the broken links, I've read a few pages of the thread and i havent seen anything...but i cant read all of them cuz there are 42.

[Merkaba]

Okay, I just joined the forums tonight because its pretty much the greatest thing ever. I would love to be able to sing/scream because I've been doing it forever, just like by myself, and now im convinced that im probably doing it wrong because i have never even thought about technique...I just sing. So i need to start from the beginning. But...all the links at the beginning of this thread are broken. So where do I start?

Sorry if im the millionth person to mention the broken links, I've read a few pages of the thread and i havent seen anything...but i cant read all of them cuz there are 42.

all of my links worked for me just now, except the samples. I'll try to fix that....

[RedDragon642]

Okay, it works for me now. Don't know what that was about. Thanks.

[RedDragon642]

so, what can i do about the samples? are you going to put those up on another site or something, because those would be SO helpful seeing as I don't exactly know what i am doing wrong and that would help me with warmups and such.

[dagnammit]

I need some help....BAD. Well, actually our singer does. We have a performance coming up and we're all not too pleased and confident with the quality of our singer's voice. We're going to sit down soon and critique his voice and give him pointers on how to improve. Problem is...we don't sing so we wouldn't know how to properly explain it to him. Well....here's his problem:

He tends to oversing...big time. He used to sing R&B all the time and I think that's where his problem lies (not sure if that is the case.) He tries to do the whole vibrato thing all the time and tries to do all this crazy stuff with his voice. When he starts learning a new song and he's not too focused on his voice but more the lyrics, his voice actually sounds good...BUT...the more and more he sings, the worse and worse it gets. Is that even possible? When he gets into it...that's when he starts to oversing, and then his voice goes into a higher pitch than his natural speaking voice and he starts to sing off-key. ALSO, he's so focused on trying to sound good that his timing starts to go off.

Sorry if this is long but it's been frustrating. What advice should I give him? He thinks its boring to sing songs where the singer doesn't go all out (like Brandon from Incubus). Maybe that's his R&B mentality? He also refuses to listen to recordings because he hates the sound of his own voice. What should I do?? We don't have much time left to perfect our playing.

Also, kicking him out is not an option. haha.

[Merkaba]

I need some help....BAD. Well, actually our singer does. We have a performance coming up and we're all not too pleased and confident with the quality of our singer's voice. We're going to sit down soon and critique his voice and give him pointers on how to improve. Problem is...we don't sing so we wouldn't know how to properly explain it to him. Well....here's his problem:

He tends to oversing...big time. He used to sing R&B all the time and I think that's where his problem lies (not sure if that is the case.) He tries to do the whole vibrato thing all the time and tries to do all this crazy stuff with his voice. When he starts learning a new song and he's not too focused on his voice but more the lyrics, his voice actually sounds good...BUT...the more and more he sings, the worse and worse it gets. Is that even possible? When he gets into it...that's when he starts to oversing, and then his voice goes into a higher pitch than his natural speaking voice and he starts to sing off-key. ALSO, he's so focused on trying to sound good that his timing starts to go off.

Sorry if this is long but it's been frustrating. What advice should I give him? He thinks its boring to sing songs where the singer doesn't go all out (like Brandon from Incubus). Maybe that's his R&B mentality? He also refuses to listen to recordings because he hates the sound of his own voice. What should I do?? We don't have much time left to perfect our playing.

Also, kicking him out is not an option. haha.
He's obviously pinching his throat off and straining and blocking the airflow with a high tense larynx which is trade mark. If he doesnt like to listen to his own voice, then he's not a singer. If kicking him out is not an option, then sounds like youre screwed. Tell him to come read through this thread. And tell him the most important thing to remember is that singing harder doesnt mean singing Higher, and singing higher doesnt mean singing harder. Very common habit.

[ryanc]

I'm having a lot of trouble screaming. I've read tons of threads about it but I don't quite understand everything. It would be incredibly helpful if you could email me, because I don't get a chance to go on forums very much. My email is ryan5012@hotmail.com. Thank you very, very much in advance.

[adz_18]

hey there merk,

this may be off topic, but as a someone who appreciates great singing ability, thought you might wanna check this guy out, if you haven't heard of him already. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tireh ... check out the audio samples, has a pretty damn good whistle register (can do it with vibrato aswell). If you can possibily find a copy of 'power of love' (it used to be in wikipedia but now it's gone) you should definitely check it out. this guy has one of the best head voices i've ever heard. not just incredible range, but maintains amazing tone and power. awesome stuff.

let me know what ya reckon.

[adz_18]

oh yeah, someone on the other page brought up matthew bellamy, one of my favourite singers. As you suggest Merk, Knights of Cydonia is nothing overally spectacular vocal wise although it does get some awesome operatic sounding acapella stuff going towards the end there, ala queen. If you want to check out songs showing off his vocal ability check out "microcuts" (sings the entire song in falsetto), backing vocals of "megalomania" at 3min 39sec - 3min 42sec and 4min 13sec - 4min 20sec (again, awesome falsetto), but then "cave" particularly the chorus for power and emotion, as well as "citizen erased" and "hoodoo" which shows ability to switch registers often, with "hoodoo" showing he also has a good lower register and good vibrato.

Microcuts, megalomania and citizen erased are off their album origin or symmetry whilst hoodoo is off their latest album, black holes & revelations.

You guys should check it out, even if you don't like the music you'll still probably appreciate the musicianship.

[Merkaba]

Tireh is definitely talented. However I find the whistle register annoying usually....usually.

I'll have to check out more bellamy! Thanks!

[Merkaba]

Tireh is definitely talented. However I find the whistle register annoying usually....usually. Especially in R&B

I'll have to check out more bellamy! Thanks!

:smoke:

[i am the robots]

I'm having a lot of trouble screaming. I've read tons of threads about it but I don't quite understand everything. It would be incredibly helpful if you could email me, because I don't get a chance to go on forums very much. My email is ryan5012@hotmail.com. Thank you very, very much in advance.

did anybody take care of this, or should I?

[fuzzyhair]

I have been doing inhaled screaming a lot lately. I find it a lot easier to do than exhaled, and it doesn't hurt me at all (in my throat area). The only place that it kind of hurts is my chest area. Nothing severe or anything, it just feels like I have been running a lot. So is there anything I can do to warmup this area of my body?

[Strat96]

I have been reading several pages of this and I don't know if this was covered yet or is completely on-topic. Has anyone asked about singing with a real bluesy voice? It's something I have been wanting to do for a while, but I don't want to go an mimic a recording because that usually doesn't get me anywhere. Are there any excercises anyone knows or any tips?

Thanks everyone!

[adz_18]

Fuzzy hair, I'm not an expert but I'd say reread the posts merkaba made on vocal warmup and the exercises you can do. You may also be pushing too hard which could be causing the pain.

Speaking of screaming, merkaba what's your opinion of serj tankian from system of a down? I would think that his screams (particularly off the toxicity album) are the quintessential screams to listen to when learning. Listen to "Needles" off said album, some really good screams with clear enunciation (and at one point even chucks in a death metal scream as well). Basically all of his screams are pitched, ie. the note is sung but then a sh*tload of rasp etc is added to it. In a live performance of chop suey at the london astoria, in one breath he goes from an incredible sounding scream and then comes out of it doing some vocal acrobatics around and above the tenor C! His range is quite awesome, and his screams complement this a lot too (because they're actually pitched unlike all these metalcore and screamo vocalists)... oh, and the guy can actually "sing" aswell... SOAD are at their best when malakian is harmonising with serj (something about harmonious/melodic vocals with heavy music just words for me)

[Merkaba]

Fuzzy hair, I'm not an expert but I'd say reread the posts merkaba made on vocal warmup and the exercises you can do. You may also be pushing too hard which could be causing the pain.

Speaking of screaming, merkaba what's your opinion of serj tankian from system of a down? I would think that his screams (particularly off the toxicity album) are the quintessential screams to listen to when learning. Listen to "Needles" off said album, some really good screams with clear enunciation (and at one point even chucks in a death metal scream as well). Basically all of his screams are pitched, ie. the note is sung but then a sh*tload of rasp etc is added to it. In a live performance of chop suey at the london astoria, in one breath he goes from an incredible sounding scream and then comes out of it doing some vocal acrobatics around and above the tenor C! His range is quite awesome, and his screams complement this a lot too (because they're actually pitched unlike all these metalcore and screamo vocalists)... oh, and the guy can actually "sing" aswell... SOAD are at their best when malakian is harmonising with serj (something about harmonious/melodic vocals with heavy music just words for me)

yea I know of serj a bit. I really like arials I think it was...and a few others but not really a big fan some I'm not sure. I didnt know he was belting a tenor C though. But I did know just from memory that he does have a big true range but his voice doesnt seem to rest too low so he's probably already set up for it. I'll go youtubing for some samples......couldnt find any of that astoria. sure it wasnt a falsetto though?

[Joseph India]

Hey
I've been reading the lessons for a while now.
I don't scream when singing, but recently I've been reading the screaming lessons because I started trying this technique where you scream into a saxophone to get a sort of rasp/growl out of it.
I do warm-ups and downs, but I don't really practice screaming NOTES because I don't actually think about what note I hit (you can't even hear it over the sax anyways). I use a scream kind of like a kid crying really hard, it's a very annoying sound by itself.
So my question is:
Is it going to hurt me if I don't really practice screaming notes?

[adz_18]

yea I know of serj a bit. I really like arials I think it was...and a few others but not really a big fan some I'm not sure. I didnt know he was belting a tenor C though. But I did know just from memory that he does have a big true range but his voice doesnt seem to rest too low so he's probably already set up for it. I'll go youtubing for some samples......couldnt find any of that astoria. sure it wasnt a falsetto though?

Ah k fair enough. Yeah Aerials is a cool song, very catchy but not one that really shows what he can do with his voice, neither is the instrumentation very difficult. Nah, it definitely wasn't falsetto. It's a shame, youtube has a lot from the astoria gig but not chop suey! From the same gig tho, check out 'needles' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytz7evRbtz8 . high notes throughout the whole song, hits C# (semi tone above tenor C) at 2min 51 sec altho its very raspy (unlike the same note in chop suey which he does clean at that gig). Scream at 2min 35sec is pretty fkn good too. the song sounds funny here coz they cut out words, like needle and as$! wtf! who finds as$ offensive anymore?

Also 'science' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gim41ZRNnV0 shows a bit of his range and screaming capability. Particularly, at the 1min 41 sec and 2min 20sec.
On 'pyscho' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3KV9y4D55E at 39 seconds the screams are awesome, at 1min 22sec the singing is high/strong as it is at 2min 15 sec...

Here is the studio version of Question! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7f3hohhpEE featuring good harmonies, and the good old straight up tenor C in the background at 1min 35 sec

[Ethan.]

I don't know anything about singing, but people say my singer needs to get better and I don't know what to tell him. I think he's got potential, but he hasn't had lessons or anything.

So here's our band website http://www.myspace.com/theindustrync

What do you guys think he could do to help his singing? The song we like the most is Decline Of Western Civilization so tips for that song would be appreciated. And please don't say lessons... I understand how much lessons can help, but that's not really an option.

Oh nevermind I think I put this in the wrong thread :lol:

[slpntrx5]

mkay, i know i've made about 3 billion of the same posts, but i'd just really like to know what i'm doing wrong, and what exercises or whatever i can do??? i promise this is the last time i'll ask. and just to make your ears bleed, here's a link:

myspace.com/faultytheband

[adz_18]

holy **** you guys have to check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDXBRvS7wa0

Best rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody I've ever seen, and considering they're Korean and can't speak English properly it makes it all the more amazing. yes, there are a few pronunciation errors, but it's trivial in comparison to the performance.

Seriously, you MUST check this out from start to finish. ****ing brilliant.

[Merkaba]

holy **** you guys have to check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDXBRvS7wa0

Best rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody I've ever seen, and considering they're Korean and can't speak English properly it makes it all the more amazing. yes, there are a few pronunciation errors, but it's trivial in comparison to the performance.

Seriously, you MUST check this out from start to finish. ****ing brilliant.

:thumb:

Weemahkabul!

[guitarro777]

Hi people,
I'm a male baritone (female would just be... strange) and I have a three octave range (and yes I do, I am a musician so i know about these things, and my music major opera singer friend tested me) and I was wondering how do you find head voice? I was told that the singer from Muse sings in his head voice a lot. Another favorite of mine is christians worship leader Phil Wickham (who might be unkown to you) but also sings in his head voice a lot. So what is the difference between head and falsetto, and how do I find it? This would be of great help to me, thanks a lot.
-Sergio

BTW I am learning to sing, so although I might have a big range, the higher end sounds not so good, but I am working on it, but I'm trying to learn all I can about singing.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

I'm pretty sure you are singing in head voice if your range is 3 octaves. The head voice notes will just be weak now because the muscles that manipulate the cords into head voice are weak. You need some training to build up your muscles to the point of being able to abduct properly into head voice and stay in that setting for however long you need to be (an entire verse of a song, a note or two at a time, etc.) You can also work on singing scales on GOT and making it pretty loud. That, as long as you aren't straining, will strengthen what is called the vocalis muscle which controls the vocal cord weight. If you strengthen that, you will be able to sing stuff in a strong head voice or mix of chest and head.

[guitarro777]

If I sang in my head voice a lot, would it be bad for my vocal chords? Or is it just a matter of practicing and getting that higher range to be strong?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Singing in head voice isn't going to hurt anything. Actually, its better for you to be singing in head because otherwise you are probably straining and pulling up chest which isn't good. You can pull chest voice up BUT you have to have a very good understanding of vocal anatomy and the correct way to push down (its taught in Melissa Cross's Zen of Screaming DVD; she calls it dump...you can probably figure it out by the name).

Just do as many exercises as you can to build up strength. I'm not really for illegal downloading of vocal programs, but i'm sure you can find enough stuff on eMule if you don't have any way to take lessons.

[Merkaba]

YOu need to do the rudiments. The boring stuff. If youre a baritone, youre gonna be near head at middle C on the piano. Certainly not chest voice. Maybe a "mid" voice but nothing lower. I would say any baritone would be in head by E. Baritone by definition is really NOT gonna get to the next B without straining. I would say around the G or A above middle C youre gonna start working around your falsetto break.

Noone is set in stone but this is a good place to start. Your lower falsetto can be very much like head. Just pay attention to the buzz at middle C. Middle C should be a strong lovely note for a baritone. Sing it and feel that buzz and tension. The "true voice" mechanism has your cords coming together in waves in particular shapes and speeds. Over a hundred per second. when you get to head voice youre still doing this just at higher speed So pay attention to the feeling and "buzz" or "ring" (which is the resonance of the vibratory pattern, and overtones, harmonics, etc) of this mechanism at middle C so you'll know whether or not youre feeling and hearing the same type of thing when you go up to G or A so you'll know that youre in head. You can't really sing falsetto early. Its not gonna happen. But you will have to relax and feel a since of letting go, "rolling up" or "flipping" into head voice. Its not the same feeling of straight out like mid and chest voice is. Some people skip over head voice because they can get this to happen, and you have to work to trick yourself into it. I don't think youre covering three octaves without access to your head voice unless you've got a hell of a falsetto. Remember three octaves of range is at least touching four octaves. Not just being able to sing three D's. But we've been over that before when people start saying "i've got five octaves" because they can sing into the fifth octave on a piano or something.

Falsetto is a result of pulling the cords thinner and not being able to keep them together vibrating in the wave. Remember to get a higher pitch your cords are thinning out and tightening in order to get this. So when you break into falsetto you've reached the end of your normal true voice mechanism(hopefully) and your cords are beeing pulled so much they cant stay together so the air is kinda cutting off the sides like a whistle, instead of making the cords wave. You will feel a difference and you will feel a bit more open. The sound is a tad more airy and the typical "girly" sound that guys make, i.e. Beegees or Prince.

Remember to think about the balloon. When you blow it up and pinch and pull the end to make it whistle and whine in various pitches. Thats basically how your cords are doing. And about the same relative thickness actually. http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911
Merkabas Voice-Help Hotline - Music & Musician Forums

[guitarro777]

Yeah I'm counting falsetto as part of my range though in this case. So I can sing 4 E's in this case the last E being falsetto. You're explanation worked well for me, also my friend sat down with me and gave me a voice lesson, and that really helped out a lot with figuring out head voice, and how to get into it and mix it and all that fun stuff. It's fun just to work on it and trying to figure things out.

[Merkaba]

Yeah I'm counting falsetto as part of my range though in this case. So I can sing 4 E's in this case the last E being falsetto. You're explanation worked well for me, also my friend sat down with me and gave me a voice lesson, and that really helped out a lot with figuring out head voice, and how to get into it and mix it and all that fun stuff. It's fun just to work on it and trying to figure things out.

Cool beans. Yea singing should be fun. If youre having fun, eventually you will get your voice mapped out and know your limits in every register. That and being able to practice where youre not being judged so that you can miss notes over and over again until you find yourself. This is really important, unless youre one of those rare people who truly truly truly dont give a crap and don't tense up or change when bad vocals are practiced. This is rare.

Yea, most alternative and rock singers add falsetto as part of the range. I agree, as long as its usable. I can squeak out all kinds of stuff especially if I warm up for a long time and keep at it. But I dont consider that part of my range. I had thought about working on my whistle and just melding it in right after my highest comfortable falsetto but whistle isnt too natural for me and would take crazy practice which I can't find time to do now with working two jobs. In classical and operatic singing falsetto isnt included unless of course youre going for a "countertenor" position or something like that I guess, which often times arent even used. I like classical singing as well. Keep at it man. Post a sample if you like/can.

[La Revolucion]

It is also possible to go through your breaks into head and falsetto and create one streamlined voice. It takes practice and stuff though, so yeah.

[guitarro777]

Yeah, I'll try post up a clip of me soon. It'll sound not so good haha, but at least it will help me to hear what I need to work on from you guys. And yes, I am trying to figure out singing through my breaks and mixing chest and head and all that good stuff. The hard part is sounding good while doing it. I'm having trouble singing loud and with a bit of breath control as well, but I just keep practicing that. What are some examples of people who mix chest and head, that would help me just to hear and understand what I am doing, and also give me ideas on what I can do. Is Bono a good example on this, like on "Without or Without You?"

[guitarro777]

It is also possible to go through your breaks into head and falsetto and create one streamlined voice. It takes practice and stuff though, so yeah.

Speaking of that, any tips on that?

[Merkaba]

Speaking of that, any tips on that?
http://sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5510425#post5510425

glisses are a big key

[Tang.]

Do you think its possible to just not have a good singing voice?

[Merkaba]

Do you think its possible to just not have a good singing voice?

No cause:
1. "good" is relative to:
2. what style of music you want to do


In other words it depends on what you want to sing, and nowadays, Who you want to sound like. (noone else I hope) Now some people are born with problems, thats different.
:)

[guitarro777]

Yeah, like some singers that sound great in screamo rock would obviously not sound good in opera haha, imagine that. Also, if your voice is not "that great" usually your engineer will turn your voice down in the mix of a recording haha. So either way, if you practice and just sing it won't hurt.

[La Revolucion]

Right. How's your mixed voice coming along?

[Eliminator]

omg how do i sound like kelly clarkson

[La Revolucion]

Sing the vowel "EE" on a C scale and add vocal histrionics sparingly.

[Eliminator]

what the **** are you talking about boy

this ain't science class ya hear

[La Revolucion]

Oh, then just repeat after me...

"BREAAAAAAAAKKKKKKAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYY"

[hectiK]

Screaming help needed, sorry guys lol.

So my voice feels wrecked at the moment.. im an idiot, I was pushing today (adrenaline).. doing the high pitch gutteral sounding stuff, like im gargling, which I think killed it.. and sounds **** anyway. The lower pitch growling stuff I got on lock down, and can add a bit of rasp here and there. I can sing in tune and have a good range etc, so im not really a newb for that.

The problem is the metalcore screaming, which is the screaming I really want to do (As I Lay Dying, Bullet For My Valentine etc).. It normally sounds up ending like death metal instead because I cant hear my screams and I just push like an idiot..
I cant really get that sound, unless I do it quickly (like Atreyu).. I cant get those good long/powerful screams, and if I do.. they arent loud at all.. just air.

Yesterday I warmed up my voice with ZOS DVD.. which helped my normal singing a lot and gave me quite a bit of range on the screaming im aiming for, without having to push.. Then it just went downhill.. nearly losing my voice at the end, woke up today with a throat infection (yes.. im an idiot for singing today) but I dont think thats the reason (cold bug going round).

When I turn the volume up on amp loads, it sounds pretty good without having to sound loud and my friend brought in a boss distortion pedal today which was fun (cheatt ;p). But normally, just cant get a good pitch. Somethings wrong.

So the question is.. what am I doing wrong and how can I go about getting these Hardcore/Metalcore screams. Got a gig coming up in a couple months!

Any help will be great, thanks a lot guys.

[La Revolucion]

Speaking of that, any tips on that?
You know how you trill R's in Spanish? Do that on octave scales from an E below middle C to as high as you can go comfortably. Flip into head voice whenever you need to, and eventually you will find a register in the middle of the two called mixed voice. Then from there you can do glisses and things to get your voice more conditioned.

There's plenty other exercises I could tell you about that would get your mix strengthened if you care about it enough.

But, don't focus solely on mix. Also work on head and chest. Mixed will just sort of come naturally.

[Seth Mitchell]

Hey, i posted this problem, but didn't get much responce, but Merkaba told me to come here.

Here's my thread:
http://sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502530

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

He probably told you to come here because you should find an answer within the first post. Just read through all of it and work on the exercises.

[Merkaba]

He probably told you to come here because you should find an answer within the first post. Just read through all of it and work on the exercises.

Yea I meant have you been here to READ!!!! :lol:

[guitarro777]

You know how you trill R's in Spanish? Do that on octave scales from an E below middle C to as high as you can go comfortably. Flip into head voice whenever you need to, and eventually you will find a register in the middle of the two called mixed voice. Then from there you can do glisses and things to get your voice more conditioned.

There's plenty other exercises I could tell you about that would get your mix strengthened if you care about it enough.

But, don't focus solely on mix. Also work on head and chest. Mixed will just sort of come naturally.

I can't roll my Rrrrrrrs....

[Merkaba]

I can't roll my Rrrrrrrs....


What about motorboats?

[panthersfan16]

hey merk I'm really worried. I had a bit of a chest cold about 2 weeks ago, it wasnt bad it only took me about 3 or 4 days to beat it, but now about a week later, I still can't do my mid voice screams. My growls and falsetto screams are better than ever, but i can't get my voice behind the mid voice screams (slipknot-ish if you don't know what I mean). I can get the rasp and a lot of air, and I can sing the notes easily and powerfully, but as soon as i go to scream, its like there is a very quiet note, if any at all behind it...

Do you have any idea of what is going on? If I lost my scream for good I am SCREWED... My grandpa, a real powerful singer, had something similar a couple years ago and he still cant sing much anymore

PS I warm up for about 15 min with scales and stuff

[Merkaba]

I replied in ithe other thread Panther

[guitarro777]

What about motorboats?

I've been doing those, but one thing is I can't keep them going very long. I've been doing the "muhs" and "nays" those have helped me a lot too. Right now I just really need to be working on intonation.

[hxcturtle369]

Hey I am 14 years old, and I've recently joined a band. I got sick with a fever/ soar throat for about 4 days. It's pretty much gone now, a little still in the throat but before I got sick I could Pig Squeel and growl pretty good. Now whenever I try to do both, the air just won't come out like its not there. Did I do something wrong or what? Suggestions plz...

[Druumer89]

Hey I am 14 years old, and I've recently joined a band. I got sick with a fever/ soar throat for about 4 days. It's pretty much gone now, a little still in the throat but before I got sick I could Pig Squeel and growl pretty good. Now whenever I try to do both, the air just won't come out like its not there. Did I do something wrong or what? Suggestions plz...


...pig squeal, huh?

[Merkaba]

I've been doing those, but one thing is I can't keep them going very long. I've been doing the "muhs" and "nays" those have helped me a lot too. Right now I just really need to be working on intonation.
How long can you hold them? Intonation will suffer if you dont have any breath support.

[guitarro777]

How long can you hold them? Intonation will suffer if you dont have any breath support.

Not very long. I was practicing with a friend, and he out motor-boated me, he can hold a note twice as long as I can. I'm really frustrated with it, because I don't know what I am doing wrong.

[hxcturtle369]

I could hold a squeel off for a good 20 or 25 seconds or so.

[guitarro777]

I could hold a squeel off for a good 20 or 25 seconds or so.

Define "squeal." Also you are aware that you are going through puberty right now as well right?

[hxcturtle369]

Lmfao

[guitarro777]

So the rule is if you can't roll your r's to do motorboats instead then?

[hxcturtle369]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=638405
This is me doing some deathmetal/grindcore vocals, inhaling high and low. I'm only 14 and I've been practicing for like 1 month.

The song in the backround by a band called Waking The Cadaver

http://www.myspace.com/wakingthecadaver

[Merkaba]

So the rule is if you can't roll your r's to do motorboats instead then?

Motorboats are good to help you get in touch with your diaphragm and a bit of larynx control when you go up in pitch. I say do them anyways. You can roll r's without having good breath support. So its a bit of a different fruit.

[guitarro777]

How do I balance out practicing vocal technique, and practicing songs? I have been going through Brett Manning's Singing Success program, and I am afraid that if I practice actual songs, that I will sing with bad technique and destroy my voice. I love practicing the excercises he gives, but I'm afraid that when I go to a practice a song that I will unlearn all the things I just learned from it. Do I just need to sing lower until I can get more comfortable singing higher? How do I balance technique verse singing songs?

[wammy_bar]

dude i listened to your rasp lesson and i simply cannot do that with my voice, i know how to do that with my voice without it hurting, but i am letting too much air out, how do u let out less air, while having an open throat, aslo i seemt o only be able to do this with low notes, how do i work on expanding my range, i mean i can sing high cleanly, but with the rasp it sounds weird, though i think this can all be solved with letting less air out and pushing less, how can this be achieved?

[Merkaba]

How do I balance out practicing vocal technique, and practicing songs? I have been going through Brett Manning's Singing Success program, and I am afraid that if I practice actual songs, that I will sing with bad technique and destroy my voice. I love practicing the excercises he gives, but I'm afraid that when I go to a practice a song that I will unlearn all the things I just learned from it. Do I just need to sing lower until I can get more comfortable singing higher? How do I balance technique verse singing songs?

Well you should be trying to pay attention to the feelings in your larynx while you do exercises so that you can try to replicate this while doing your songs. Remember that all your cords can make are vowels. Remember that you can practice singing your favorite songs by using only the vowels and not the consonants. Remember this while doing your exercises becuase the two shouldnt feel any different. You should have a reperetoire of exercices that ARE singing and that cover your range. This is why there is no replacement for one on one or at least some type of dedicated instruction. There is only so much that can be relayed over the net and so many ways of putting things into some kind of sentence that will make someones brain click from thousands of miles away.

[Merkaba]

dude i listened to your rasp lesson and i simply cannot do that with my voice, i know how to do that with my voice without it hurting, but i am letting too much air out, how do u let out less air, while having an open throat, aslo i seemt o only be able to do this with low notes, how do i work on expanding my range, i mean i can sing high cleanly, but with the rasp it sounds weird, though i think this can all be solved with letting less air out and pushing less, how can this be achieved?
You cant expand your range, per se. You can only access it. Whats the highes note you can sing....not slip out but sing decently? This is why i say sing the scream and pure voice singing is the best thing for your development if there is something in question. To begin, go for singing the note as if you were in an opera.

As far as rasp, try Ick. Like gross ick. From a slight growl position or as if youre clearning your throat. Then sing it on a few mid range, low push pitches. As one goes up in pitch and power you really have to lighten up on this mechanism but a basic clearing of the throat will at least get you in touch with it.

[wammy_bar]

whats Ick? and what is ross Ick? srry im stupid, lol

[Merkaba]

whats Ick? and what is ross Ick? srry im stupid, lol

ick....Gross ick. not ross. Like iiiccccckk thats gross.

[wammy_bar]

ick....Gross ick. not ross. Like iiiccccckk thats gross.

like when ur saying, Yickkkkk?

like how jews and the terrorists make that noise in their language, like how jews say hanuka, like ur hawking a loogy? cause i sing the note but i can tdo that without stopping the note

all im asking is when i rasp sing is how do i push, but not make it sound like im pushing, would projecting more help, because i just got surgery and cant leave my bed often, and cant project while laying down. so is projecting going to help me to sound less like im pushing too hard? btw nothing of what im talking about is hurting so its all okayk, it just sounds bad

[Merkaba]

like when ur saying, Yickkkkk?

like how jews and the terrorists make that noise in their language, like how jews say hanuka, like ur hawking a loogy? cause i sing the note but i can tdo that without stopping the note

all im asking is when i rasp sing is how do i push, but not make it sound like im pushing, would projecting more help, because i just got surgery and cant leave my bed often, and cant project while laying down. so is projecting going to help me to sound less like im pushing too hard? btw nothing of what im talking about is hurting so its all okayk, it just sounds bad
I dont think its the same as the language thing youre talking about or hawking a loogy. Again this is the wrong answer buzzer "annnnk" area. Or the dog growl or as melissa cross would say the dump. Pressurize like your pushing out a shlt and feel that pressure, then make a note while grunting A LITTLE like youre pushing a dump. Again you have to get to where you use only the amount you need, and higher notes dont need the same degree of "grunt" that a lower would need. Higher notes actuallu will sound crappier if you rasp them with the same degree you would a low note, which is a typical grunt. You project by having proper diaphragm support which will probably be harder to do from a bed. Once youre in touch with the mechanism then its a matter of adjusting it with your diapghram support as to how "pushy" it sounds. But once you get the rasp and feel of what it takes then its up to you. Again you will have to pressurize and get in touch with that. Practice it by feeling that "dump" feeling and open up like youre getting ready to scream "AHHH!" from constipation but hold your breath right before you do, just for a second.

[adz_18]

Yo merk,

haven't read this thread in a while, been away on holidays for quite some time in India! I'm glad to be back and getting back into the singing. Your thread has been a great help but I think to take the next step I really need some private lessons so am most likely gonna get some lessons from the people at www.voxsingingschool.com .. so cheers for what you've done for me til now.

I don't know if you're familiar with Dream Theater, but I've just gotten into them recently. They're a prog metal band incorporating all sorts of influences (heavy and soft). It's great stuff - each member is known to be a master of their respective instrument. If you can, listen to the vocalist, James LaBrie. He sounds a bit like Bruce Dickinson. Here's a clip of their most famous song live, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqXE4Ery8Ko

He has an unbelievable range, as demonstrated on this video from the 2min 30 sec mark onwards (although in other songs he goes even higher - holding lofty notes such as E5 in head for 5-6 seconds). I know he's had training, but would you suggest that he was largely blessed with a vocal setup that is 1 in a few thousand? I'm guessing no matter how much I trained I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near those notes, right (in head, anyway)?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Check out LaBrie's WinterRose stuff. It was a hair band he was in, but it's probably his best singing. He took lessons from a woman named Mary Elizabeth Burns before he began his career, so he had operatic training. Then in 1994 he ruptured a vocal cord when he was puking from food poisoning. In 2003, he retrained with a woman named Victoria Thompson and now he is honestly singing better than ever.

So obviously hes had quite a bit of training, and has been singing since he was 10 I believe in talent shows. Most people hate his voice but he is by far my favorite singer. If you get enough proper training, you can sing the stuff he does. I would take online lessons from Jaime Vendera (who he is friends with and endorses) or video lessons from Mark Baxter instead of the one site your thinking of. Both would actually be personalized to you and both will teach you a lot of methods to get your voice to be able to sing stuff like LaBrie does.

[Merkaba]

Yo merk,

haven't read this thread in a while, been away on holidays for quite some time in India! I'm glad to be back and getting back into the singing. Your thread has been a great help but I think to take the next step I really need some private lessons so am most likely gonna get some lessons from the people at www.voxsingingschool.com .. so cheers for what you've done for me til now.

I don't know if you're familiar with Dream Theater, but I've just gotten into them recently. They're a prog metal band incorporating all sorts of influences (heavy and soft). It's great stuff - each member is known to be a master of their respective instrument. If you can, listen to the vocalist, James LaBrie. He sounds a bit like Bruce Dickinson. Here's a clip of their most famous song live, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqXE4Ery8Ko

He has an unbelievable range, as demonstrated on this video from the 2min 30 sec mark onwards (although in other songs he goes even higher - holding lofty notes such as E5 in head for 5-6 seconds). I know he's had training, but would you suggest that he was largely blessed with a vocal setup that is 1 in a few thousand? I'm guessing no matter how much I trained I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near those notes, right (in head, anyway)?
I agree with Auz. Go with Vendera or Mark. As far as who can sing who, its just purely up in the air and you have to remember what range youre born with. If youre a bass theres only so much you can do as far as high notes but you can master your bass voice. There are plenty of tenors who wish they could get a little lower. Venderra and others claim that you can sing in true voice any note that you can get in falsetto. While theoretically I think its possible, It takes a ton of work and dedication. Its easier to be able to hold a not or two but to be able to maneuver runs of words outside of your range is a bltch in true voice. But I think everyone can surprise themselves especially if you remember that youre probably gonna be using a mic and you can push way way way less than you probably think you need to. And once you get that with being able to relax the throat while singing you'll really grow. I would suggest you take a few personal lessons first, If you have anyone near you, even if they are just classical operatic. You will learn a lot. Then go with something based on rock or more aggressive stuff.

[PDOGG]

Hey Auz, Merkaba, do either of you guys have your head voices down well enough to make it indistinguishable from your chest up top? You know, like a big wide strong palette(where the highs don't lose that chesty tone)? I'd really like to hear it, I've heard it's possible but I haven't actually HEARD it done properly. You guys know any good exercises to beef up the head voice (and get by the break?)

Thank ya sirs.

[Merkaba]

Hey Auz, Merkaba, do either of you guys have your head voices down well enough to make it indistinguishable from your chest up top? You know, like a big wide strong palette(where the highs don't lose that chesty tone)? I'd really like to hear it, I've heard it's possible but I haven't actually HEARD it done properly. You guys know any good exercises to beef up the head voice (and get by the break?)

Thank ya sirs.

To me head voice is true voice, high pitch and chest is true voice low pitch. Falsetto is non true voice. You can add resonance to falsetto so that it sounds like head especially in your lower falsetto. The higher you go up in falsetto the harder it is and the more forced/pinched(bad) sounding it will become. Some people refer to head as falsetto. But its all the same. If your cords are not together(falsetto) youre not gonna get the same sound as when they are together(true voice head and chest), by definition. The terms head and chest are points of resonance, meaning that the vibrations from the note will be felt in the chest and move up to head due to some science of the frequency and how it vibrates your body, namely the areas that are filled with air like your chest(lungs) and your nasal and head sinuses(head). With falsetto you dont get the same frequency power and you dont get the resonance. You can learn to hold a falsetto note with more resonance than usual but meneuvering and doing runs and melodies is gonna sound forced if youre out of range,I dont care who you are.

See page one of this thread.

[PDOGG]

Oh I know exactly what head voice is, but I've also been told that the break between chest voice and head voice can be managed by relaxing and that head voice can sound very big and full like chest voice (Mark Baxter talks about this alot)


I know well the difference between registers, but I have little control over my break between chest voice and head voice and my head voice tone is complete crap. How do I build the head voice tone and bypass the break is basically my question.


My main issue is that I haven't heard it for myself. Or at least I hadn't. Check this guy out: Robert Lunte

www.myspace.com/tvsvox


In the vid, his first student shown has an incredible sounding head voice (as well as the bigger guy with the glasses in the middle). He's shown later in the video doing scales into and out of his head voice. He maintains a CONVERSATIONAL tone, which is what I'm going for. Lunte talks about about head voice adduction, what in the world is that, and how is it done?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

I have Lunte's system and have talked to him quite a bit and he considers me a virtual student of the Vocalist Studio. He teaches the technqiue used by Geoff Tate of Queensryche, and the Wilson sisters from Heart. Most of them are the exact exercises (he basically took over teacher Maestro David Kyle's methods when he died, which is who taught Tate and Wilson).

Head Voice adduction is bringing the cords together, which is what you do to access head voice. Nothing new, he just has different approaches from some teachers to get you there. The system is pretty expensive obviously, but if you can afford it or some online lessons or phone consultations, i'd do that. Basically though, adduction is just the process of bringing the cords together or "zipping them up". To be in head voice though, you are adducting; if you weren't you would be in falsetto.

Baxter and Vendera are the 2 best in the world as far as im concerned though. I've been working with Baxter through video lessons since 2003 and will start lessons with Vendera in a few weeks. If nothing else, pick up Jaime's Raise Your Voice book and all of Baxter's products.

For getting into head voice, Baxter likes to keep everything neutral and very much at the same volume at first to build a voice that changes registers reflexively. Once you've got the freedom and control down, you start adducting through various exercises (my favorite is working on stacatto vowels like HE on triplets). If you get Robert's stuff, he focuses a lot on strengthening the cricothyroid muscles in your throat to adduct. If you are made of money, get stuff from all 3. If not, get Jaime's ebook on screaminglessons.com and Mark's stuff on getsigned.

[Merkaba]

Oh I know exactly what head voice is, but I've also been told that the break between chest voice and head voice can be managed by relaxing and that head voice can sound very big and full like chest voice (Mark Baxter talks about this alot)


I know well the difference between registers, but I have little control over my break between chest voice and head voice and my head voice tone is complete crap. How do I build the head voice tone and bypass the break is basically my question.


My main issue is that I haven't heard it for myself. Or at least I hadn't. Check this guy out: Robert Lunte

www.myspace.com/tvsvox


In the vid, his first student shown has an incredible sounding head voice (as well as the bigger guy with the glasses in the middle). He's shown later in the video doing scales into and out of his head voice. He maintains a CONVERSATIONAL tone, which is what I'm going for. Lunte talks about about head voice adduction, what in the world is that, and how is it done?

Ok....well auz's reply seems to suffice, and I have a few things in the power and flexibility and finding head voice links on page one. It just seemed like you were confusing head with falsetto which seems to be the norm around here. As far as the break goes(from chest to head and head to falsetto), it will usually boil down to one or two notes where you 'll naturally feel a need to transition. You should know these, map them out, and do lots of exercises around them ascending and decending. I suggest light volume and push and trying to relax everything you can, including your anus( which really can lead to increased tension allover, seriously. I suggest you do a check here and there and see how often you've got it clenched, you might be surprised)

Abduct/ion think kids or alien abduction: The act of taking away,pulling apart

Adduct/ion think Add: The act of bringing together. The adduction of the cords brings them together(true voice) so that you can get a nice waveform with resonation. What auz is saying is that sometimes people lack strength/coordination/technique,etc to keep this adduction as the cricothyroid joint pulls them tighter and tighter(higher in pitch). Or yea, zipping them up, together= adduction. Lots of words flying around but thats the difference between falsetto and head really, as auz pointed out.

[PDOGG]

Raise Your voice is in the mail on the way as we speak, and I already have Baxter's book. Baxter's book was good stuff but the head voice thing was the one topic I felt it didn't touch on nearly enough

Hey Auz, how is the head voice thing going for you based on all this research and training? Can you make a smooth transition and get your head voice meaty so that you can't tell the difference once you switch over? Can you do runs and phrases and stuff in it and still get power? How about you Merkaba?


I guess my concern here, is how in the hell do I get a transition like that guy in the video? That was basically flawless and exactly the type of thing I want in my own voice, what methods would you guys suggest I go about doing to attain that?


Oh and, what's this crycothyroid strengthening business that lunte teaches? What kind of exercises does he use to go about doing that?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

I'm always working on my head voice. For a long time I wasn't able to access it at all, but then I started focusing on it and strengthening it. Basically, on most days I CAN get into it and do the stuff I want to do, which is usually either R&B (Stevie Wonder) or Metal (Queensryche, Priest, Helloween, etc.). I can't always do full songs up in a key just above my passagio unless I am fully warmed up. As long as you drill all the exercises you have and stay focused, you can and will be able to sing basically anything after a while. But, as soon as you slip on your technique and lose a little focus or even something as small as not drink enough water one day, your head voice will always suffer. Thats because they have to thin out and adduct a very certain way to access head voice. Pushing in the lower range too much or being dry from not enough water is going to cause some swelling. That extra swelling will prevent the thinning out/adduction process. There is a way around that which is to sing scales on the vowel EE and do lip trills to thin everything out again.

The guy in the video does basically the exercises found on the CD. I don't think Robert really teaches many scales outside of whats on his CD method judging from the DVDs, but i'm not really sure. Basically, just doing exercises with focus on seamless transisitions through the passagio then working on placing the tone in the head cavities once you get above the break is helpful. A good thing to try to remember as far as placement is to get rasp, you try to direct the tone to the soft pallate. If it kind of scrapes off of it like Merkaba says, then your getting a good rasp. For a strong and resonant head voice, try to place and feel it on the hard pallate. Thats directly behind the teeth and its good if your teeth buzz too.

I have the original version of Rob's book/CD, plus a video lesson on CD, and the ebook version of the new updated book. If you want to buy it you can email me at firehouse108@hotmail.com. It's basically the same thing but without the two new DVDs. The first DVD is him doing an exercise followed by a student doing the exercise. The 2nd DVD is basically just some tips and clips of him and his students singing songs.

[hectiK]

Hey Merkaba!

If your screaming correctly, is it normal for there to be some discomfort and by about 20 minutes of screaming have that coughy-tingling feeling in your front for a couple of hours? Or does this mean your screaming the wrong way?

I can kind of scream if I feel like I push a little harder, and add a bit more throat. The only thing is there is a little discomfort, but doesnt affect my singing voice during or after. Also, if I do this and start to run out of breathe.. The scream turns into a constipated sounding person or a surfer.. But I usually dont.
This way of screaming, I find it near enough impossible to get a scream and hold it.. you know like "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH". Just sounds gutteral.

If I try and scream entirely from the gut its either - really quiet or - a load of air comes out. If I try regulating how much air im pushing out of my gut, out of my mouth, it doesnt really make a difference.. its not like im just giving it an all out push. I think im doing it wrong somewhere.

Im gunna wait for this new ZOS to come out, I really cant get my head around how to scream.

Ill upload some files if it helps.
Thanks.

[Merkaba]

Hey Merkaba!

If your screaming correctly, is it normal for there to be some discomfort and by about 20 minutes of screaming have that coughy-tingling feeling in your front for a couple of hours? Or does this mean your screaming the wrong way?

I can kind of scream if I feel like I push a little harder, and add a bit more throat. The only thing is there is a little discomfort, but doesnt affect my singing voice during or after. Also, if I do this and start to run out of breathe.. The scream turns into a constipated sounding person or a surfer.. But I usually dont.
This way of screaming, I find it near enough impossible to get a scream and hold it.. you know like "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH". Just sounds gutteral.

If I try and scream entirely from the gut its either - really quiet or - a load of air comes out. If I try regulating how much air im pushing out of my gut, out of my mouth, it doesnt really make a difference.. its not like im just giving it an all out push. I think im doing it wrong somewhere.

Im gunna wait for this new ZOS to come out, I really cant get my head around how to scream.

Ill upload some files if it helps.
Thanks.

No you should never feel like you have to cough, get that tingly feeling ( I know what you mean)or feel any pain or discomfort. Youre pinching your larynx too much and just overblowing if you feel this. Be sure youre warming up at least for five minutes or more. I cant stress enough that normal singing and practicing is the best way to get in touch with how it feels to keep the larynx open and knowing just how little air you need for a good note. A scream is not much more air than normal once you can get the rasp, or "heat" as Melissa would say. Hopefully her new CD will be better.

[hectiK]

Thanks, I tryed your advice and made sure the air was inflating my tummy and not the chest, but it still doesnt work. Just comes out as air or a high pitched sound which sounds like a cat dying.

[tehultimatepwn]

merkaba, im am trying to do the growling voice, and i have it, but i end up doing it a bit too much and a scratchy pain in my throat happens, how can i prevent this, and also how cna i not sound like im pushing at all while singing raspy? thanx

[Merkaba]

merkaba, im am trying to do the growling voice, and i have it, but i end up doing it a bit too much and a scratchy pain in my throat happens, how can i prevent this, and also how cna i not sound like im pushing at all while singing raspy? thanx

Try singing the same passages in a normal singing voice. Have you dont this yet?

[i am the robots]

As Merk said, try singing the same parts in a normal singing voice, but try to do it with the same pitch as the growl, and do it for like 15 minutes straight beforehand.

Make sure when you're doing the growl that your throat is open, you might be creating the rasp soley with your throat.

Don't slack on the warm-up as I've been lately, it's no good.

[kdash]

i am a bit confused about screaming. from what i have read you are suppose to use falsetto during a scream to minimize dmg, but in order to add tone to a scream you have to use your vocal folds. so how am i suppose to use falsetto and add true voice to it at the same time?

[tehultimatepwn]

Try singing the same passages in a normal singing voice. Have you dont this yet?

ya i can sing it in normal singing voice perfectly and it sounds great, but i wanna add rasp do just little sections, like in fade to black by metallica right before the chorus, and it sound like im pushing too hard, too much air is coming out.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

It sounds like too much air is coming out because thats exactly whats happening. What you are doing is pushing extra air through the cords, and that extra air is creating whatever rasp you are getting, if any. What you need to do is use no more breath than you do when your speaking, push down like going to the restroom, and make sure you are placing the sound in your soft pallate, the soft part of the roof of your mouth. If you do continue to send up extra air, always place it to the soft pallate. This will keep the air from drying out the cords, and it will keep you from any general strain. Play around the with amount of push you need, but make sure the push is always coming from below (like using the bathroom) and not from the throat.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

i am a bit confused about screaming. from what i have read you are suppose to use falsetto during a scream to minimize dmg, but in order to add tone to a scream you have to use your vocal folds. so how am i suppose to use falsetto and add true voice to it at the same time?

You can use falsetto if thats the sound you are going for, and not if it isn't. Falsetto is just another register produced by the vocal cords. Basically, sing whatever note it is you want to scream cleanly first, then start adding some downwards pressure as if you are using the restroom, and sending the tone/breath to the soft pallate. Eventually you'll get a perfect balance and start sounding how you want to.

[guitarro777]

So, ok I've been doing better, I've been practicing a lot. I'm not amazing yet, but I'm pretty excited about the progress I've made already. One thing tho, what tips do you guys have on building better intonation? I mean its one thing to work with a tuner, or sing notes from a piano, but what about when you sing live? I can tell when I am not singing the right note (obviously an A# is not in the key of A ;) ) but I have trouble telling if I am singing the semi-tone right under a 440hz A. Any tips you people can give me? I have Brett Manning's Singing Success, and I also have Jaime Vanderas Raise Your Voice. Brett didn't mention intonation at all (I'm assuming he believes that with practice of good technique that intonation will come) and Jaime had a few tips, but I didn't find it that helpful. I'm looking for excercises I can practice like, say in the car, where I don't have access to a tuner or pitch wheel.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Don't work on intonation exercises in your car. Just if you have a guitar, piano, whatever, do chromatic scales. Start on Middle C (C4) and slide sing one note at a time going downscale until you reach C3. Keep doing this until you have covered your whole range. It will build muscle memory and your cords will start getting used to the feeling of each note. Always record yourself and listen back to make sure everything is actually in tune. Also, then just pick random notes on a keyboard or guitar, and sing them. Once you can sing them dead on you are doing pretty well, most people will sing it either a tiny bit flat or sharp then slide just a bit to get it right. You need to work on just hitting it dead on from the beginning. Melissa Cross teaches this in her DVD

[kdash]

You can use falsetto if thats the sound you are going for, and not if it isn't. Falsetto is just another register produced by the vocal cords. Basically, sing whatever note it is you want to scream cleanly first, then start adding some downwards pressure as if you are using the restroom, and sending the tone/breath to the soft pallate. Eventually you'll get a perfect balance and start sounding how you want to.

i was just under the impression that using head voice would be too damaging for the vocal cords, since there is a lot more pressure compared to falsetto because the cords have to adduct.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

No, the adduction process isn't damaging unless you do it wrong, which would be shouting at top volume just to get a note. You can choose to shout stylistically (as long as you support it correctly, and place the tone above the throat) but if you HAVE to do it by default because a lack of skill then its damaging.

[blazingamingman]

I have been having difficulty in making falsetto....I just don't really know what to do and my singing teacher is a girl and can't really help me
I am 14 years old and singing vocals in a succesful rock band
Can anyone help?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Just because your teacher is a girl really shouldn't mean that she can't teach you falsetto. Vocal cords are the same thing in men and women, just different sizes. Women have a falsetto too. Your larynx is growing because you are going through puberty im sure because of your age and inability to sing in falsetto easily. Your cords are getting thicker which is lowering your voice, making it harder for them to stretch and thin to produce falsetto. Just keep doing scales, and after you are warmed up start imitating singers who use falsetto. To get it started, do some really light scales on EE (as in see) pretty high up. Its ok if its breathy right now, you are just trying to discover your falsetto. Then, sing along LIGHTLY to prince,the darkness, queen (especially the beginning of bohemian rhapsody), seal (kiss from a rose), the beach boys, whatever as long as it has some good falsetto.

[TheUsedRules]

Can you teach yourself how to sing? That's my question.
I'm a self taught guitar player and drummer of a couple years now and I'm (without bragging) always looked up and mentioned by friends and such when it comes down to instruments.

But one thing I've never tried but always have wanted to be able to do is sing. So I've been sort of working on it lately. I have a good ear so I can pick up notes and mimic styles quite easily, and to me some things I "sing" sound fine but I've never tried singing to anyone else to have their opinion because I always figured it was all in my mind and I probably sucked in reality.

So the other day I was in the basement waiting for my band to arrive, and I was singing/playing Alice In Chain's Nutshell acousticly. My band walks in without me noticing (which is good because I'm shy. so I didnt notice and kept singing loud) and they were freaking out asking me when I learned how to sing and where that came from.

Needless to say I was pumped about it, but then again.. that IS a really easy song to sing sort of.. and, I WAS just mimicing someones voice not knowing what the hell I was actually singing and just trying to be in tune with my guitar..

But since then, I've been wondering.. is it possible to teach yourself how to sing? have any of you guys? I know a couple people but it's always like "my dad was a singer" or "my uncle was in a band and gave me some tips"

if it IS possible, how should I go on about this whole thing?

any help/replies are appreciated, sorry for the goddamn long post haha

[La Revolucion]

I wouldn't recommend it. Take at least a few lessons, just to get rid of any bad habits and learn things about your voice that you didn't know, and go from there if you'd like.

[TheUsedRules]

Oh trust me, I'd LOVE to have lessons. But I just can't right now, between work and almost graduating school, and my band, and all this other **** in my life, there's no way I can have it right now. And that's where the whole question is coming from.

I did take 2 classes a couple months ago, and all I learned was breathing and posture and some exercises and I was totally pumped about it. I wish I could've kept going to it but it just didn't work out.

[La Revolucion]

http://vocalrelease.com/

That and a few other websites offer singing lesson CDs. The method I mainly use is called Speech Level Singing, and I have only really learned about it from CD's and DVDs. If you can't get lessons, that's the route I would take if I were you.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Tons of stuff on the market that you could use. Pretty much anything on www.getsinged.com is worth checking out. I would suggest getting Mark Baxter's Rock N Roll Singers Survival Manual along with either his DVD or Sing Like an Idol CD (which is geared more for pop/r&b but works for anyone), Rose Coppola's Rock Your Vox DVD which comes with a CD and booklet, Seth Riggs Sing Like A Star book/CD, or Jaime Vendera's Raise Your Voice. You can get any of them at GetSigned. If you can, I would get Baxter's book for the information which will really help you out, Rose's DVD for a CD to practice along with and a DVD to show you how to properly do it, and Jaimes book for tons of information, exercises, and life time membership to his Members area which has exercises, interviews with pro's, etc.

[i am the robots]

Auz... do you know much about trying to access your low range, like trouble with that.

I have no problems with falsetto and head voice, but my mid and low range are pretty poor.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Well, its much more difficult to increase your low range because of the set up for low notes. For high notes, they continue to stretch. Once they get past the point where they can no longer stretch, they will begin to adduct, shortening the vibrating length and making the pitch even higher. For your lowest notes there really isnt any stretching. Instead, they get thicker, and the more mass, the deeper the note. About the only thing you can do is do descending scales. Once you get to your lowest note, decrease the volume. The lower you go, the more it will turn into just vocal fry which is like a crackling sound. When it starts to go into fry, try to focus it as best you can to get it a clear tone and to eliminate the excess noise. Also, watch to make sure that you are pushing down on your larynx. The lower you get, the more you'll want to decrease the volume until you get clear tones.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Also, do the scales on A (as in say), and O (as in so). That will help to keep everything open.

[guitarro777]

I am having a problem with breathyness. Especially when I sing higher, my voice begins to get breathy. Does it mean that I am singing in falsetto? This is where I get confused. Am I doing breathy head voice, or singing in falsetto? I've been learning to mix, it has been quite fun, but I feel that I am doing things right in practicing the excercices, but that the old habits try to creep back up when I actually sing a song or perform. But how do I get rid of the breathyness, I don't want to dry out my vocal chords, and I want to get a clearer tone.

[i am the robots]

Thanks a lot Auz.

[Tristyn]

ok, I have a lot of questions, but I'll start with some info, I'm 16, I've been singing and screaming off and on for the last year, but a lot more in the last month.

I think I scream pretty well, but the biggest problem I get is with the volume, I can't seem to get loud at all, is that bad or is it just not supposed to be very loud? I've also had quite a bit of trouble hitting the shriek/ super-high-birdlike-scream.

One more thing, my throat seems to get a bit sore after singing, not the kind where I lose my voice or anything, and I don't even know if it's directly related to the screaming, because it doesn't hurt as I do it, my throat just gets uncomfortable at other times.

Am I not screaming right or something? If you need more info or anything, just ask, thanks for your help and sorry about all the questions, I just don't want damage.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

My guess is your basic foundational technique isn't really strong enough. That would be basically your breath control. You are more than likely either sending too much or too little breath up (wouldn't know without hearing you). When you inhale, your stomach HAS to come out. Don't force it out just let it come out. Your lower ribs should expand to and stay expanded the entire time you are singing. Keep your hands on your lower ribs to make sure they are expanded at all times while your singing/screaming. This will soon become second nature. Also, push down like you are using the restroom when you scream. This will take all tension away from the throat and add both volume/power and send up the proper amount of air.

[guitarro777]

I'm so stupid, cause I have Jaime's book too. I did the power-push like you just said, and the breathyness went away immediately. I just gotta be concious about it when I'm doing it. Sweet!

[i am the robots]

If you're going for a high "birdlike" scream, maybe try inhaling it? Think about your scream as if it's coming from where your throat meets your nasal cavity, it's the type of scream like Through The Eyes Of The Dead or Fireset Birth... really shrieky and really piercing.

[kdash]

are whistle notes the notes after head notes, which is head voice? or is it just really high falsetto?

[Merkaba]

are whistle notes the notes after head notes, which is head voice? or is it just really high falsetto?

Whistle is basically air whistling through mostly closed non vibrating cords like a lip whistle. It is not falsetto.

[kdash]

how would one figure out how to do it? i heard one has no other choice but to use whistle when singing d and above.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

how would one figure out how to do it? i heard one has no other choice but to use whistle when singing d and above.

Not true. Whistle takes place at a different spot for many people. The best way to figure out how to do it is to breathe in and while you are breathing in, stop the breath so that your vocal cords close. Then, when they are closed, gently keep a TINY bit of air going through;this will eventually create whistle tone. Once you get used to that feeling, you will slowly be able to get that same set up while exhaling like you do for all singing. Don't overdo this though, and make sure you are always completely warmed up and warmed down afterwards.

[kdash]

Not true. Whistle takes place at a different spot for many people. The best way to figure out how to do it is to breathe in and while you are breathing in, stop the breath so that your vocal cords close. Then, when they are closed, gently keep a TINY bit of air going through;this will eventually create whistle tone. Once you get used to that feeling, you will slowly be able to get that same set up while exhaling like you do for all singing. Don't overdo this though, and make sure you are always completely warmed up and warmed down afterwards.

so i can't just try to sing higher and higher to automatically learn it, but have to find the feeling for it? on the side note, what is the highest note in the first sentence here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNLhvxS4xnI. i want to be able to gauge the difference between the notes i can sing on a sing and the notes i can sing in a song.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Cant comment on the video because my sound is messed up right now. You can discover it by singing higher and higher, but most people never do, and its much easier to just work at producing the feeling of it first. Sing as quietly as possible on an AY vowel. As you go upscale, you might start accessing it as long as you keep from tensing.

[kdash]

i am wondering if the force needed to create the note is more or less than a note using head voice?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

You need much less for whistle. Honestly, just try different amounts. Start with the smallest amount you can possibly take in and try it, and keep messing around with it until you get the sound. Whistle has to be discovered by experimenting.

[Merkaba]

i am wondering if the force needed to create the note is more or less than a note using head voice?

BBBB, C then down.....If I'm not mistaken. above middle c. The basic tenor area. You can hear his voice and tell he's tenor or high baritone at the least.

[AkeJay02]

Okay, so I posted this in another thread, but haven't yet gotten a response. I watched the Zen of Screaming DVD, and this is what I got from it. Merkaba, since you seem to be pretty credible here (I think I spelled that right), can you tell me if this sounds like proper technique: http://media.putfile.com/ScreamDemo

Keep in mind, though, that I've only been doing it for about a day and a half. I don't feel like I'm pushing, and I can hold it for longer than I did. I know it is a high-pitch, and I will work on that, if I'm doing it right at all. Thanks to all who respond.

[Merkaba]

Ahhh..."Taking On....." I love that song. Listen to it about everyday. Its hard to tell from that clip but you dont sound too relaxed in the throat. Remember to think about the note first and practice singing it without rasp. And you sound apologetic about the high pitch. Its Ant, he's a high tenor so its gonna be high pitched...so be careful. Practice singing it first.

[AkeJay02]

Are you saying that my technique is almost right, and that all I need to do is loosen up the throat?

As a side question, is there some reason for it to be harder to move around on notes when screaming? I can easily get the high ones (the really high, hissy ones), but I can't get it brought down to the tune that everyone else is at. It just doesn't sound good to me. I tried it with my band's music, but it just doesn't work with it. Is this wrong, as well?

[Merkaba]

Are you saying that my technique is almost right, and that all I need to do is loosen up the throat?

As a side question, is there some reason for it to be harder to move around on notes when screaming? I can easily get the high ones (the really high, hissy ones), but I can't get it brought down to the tune that everyone else is at. It just doesn't sound good to me. I tried it with my band's music, but it just doesn't work with it. Is this wrong, as well?

Have you read through any of my voicehelp hotline? Youre really treadin into troublesome waters. You have to realize how the cords work and what is is youre asking them to do. Screaming is not a good thing, even overblowing a normal note is detrimental but there are ways to mitigate the wear and tear. Your cords are stretching thinner and tighter with higher pitch and the extra outward force of the air being pushed will naturally make it harder for them to go back and forth, i.e. changing notes. Go to the first of this thread and read a few links such as strength and flexibility.

[Det_Nosnip]

He needs a bridge...over troubled waters. ;)

Anyways, Merkaba - thanks alot for the information you've put up on the site. I've been practicing some of your exercises and going through some scales, and lately I've been noticing some improvement. So, thanks!

One thing I wanted to ask, though: how do you distinguish "good" pain from "Bad?" I guess I don't really mean "pain" in the former, but...how do you distinguish between discomfort that comes from poor technique and discomfort that comes simply from giving your chords a proper workout? After practicing for about an hour/ hour and a half, the muscles in my throat ache a bit and there's a little scratchiness. I'm not hoarse or anything and can still pretty much sing most of my normal range, but the muscles on the sides of my throat (just below the curve of the jaw) ache a bit.

[Merkaba]

He needs a bridge...over troubled waters. ;)

Anyways, Merkaba - thanks alot for the information you've put up on the site. I've been practicing some of your exercises and going through some scales, and lately I've been noticing some improvement. So, thanks!

One thing I wanted to ask, though: how do you distinguish "good" pain from "Bad?" I guess I don't really mean "pain" in the former, but...how do you distinguish between discomfort that comes from poor technique and discomfort that comes simply from giving your chords a proper workout? After practicing for about an hour/ hour and a half, the muscles in my throat ache a bit and there's a little scratchiness. I'm not hoarse or anything and can still pretty much sing most of my normal range, but the muscles on the sides of my throat (just below the curve of the jaw) ache a bit.

Well there shouldnt be much discomfort. If your outer muscles are getting tired then that means youre tensing up. All your jaw should be doing is dropping and to get big and loud you dont need a big and wide mouth, that will actually make you more prone to tension. If you think about it, youre working, for the most part, some muscles behind the adams apple. What youre saying is like saying "I'm doing bicep curls and my lower back is getting discomfort" ...too much weight, swaying, leaning....improper form for the function at hand. I say ease up on the mouth strain. No way should it be bothering you enough to post about it. And technicalluy I say still, that there should be no discomfort from or after singing/screaming At least thats what you want to shoot for.

[Det_Nosnip]

Hmm...ok! I'll try to focus on relaxing my neck/face more, although "trying to relax" is often an oxymoron. :p Thanks for replying.

[hxcturtle369]

Hey merk, am I using the proper technique? I warmup my voice for at least 10 min before screaming, doing vowels ect. It doesn't hurt at all, but I would just want to know what can make it increase in range. Thanks


Here is my band...i'm the screamer.


http://www.myspace.com/afaultlessgrave

[Merkaba]

Hey merk, am I using the proper technique? I warmup my voice for at least 10 min before screaming, doing vowels ect. It doesn't hurt at all, but I would just want to know what can make it increase in range. Thanks


Here is my band...i'm the screamer.


http://www.myspace.com/afaultlessgrave

Sorry so long. Its hard to tell from this recording. But if you feel comfortable and theres no pain or hoarseness then keep going. High pitched is high pitched. Not tricks to it. You have to be able to hit that note normally, which takes strength and flexibility of A then to hit it with extra push and rasp takes A ^2. So practice normal singing and breath support which is the key.

[hxcturtle369]

What is the screamer from this band's technique? http://www.myspace.com/tdwp

[kdash]

i want to ask if one just started trying to get whistle down is it possible that his falsetto can go as high as the whistle? my falsetto goes to G6, and when i try to make a squeal i can't go any higher. but it does feel different, it feels louder "in the head", am i doing anything right? or am i just doing falsetto in another way? because when i know i am using falsetto i have to use a lot of air, but when i try to squeal it doesn't take a lot of air, but it is difficult making the sound, and also holding it, probably cause i am not adducting well?

[i am the robots]

What is the screamer from this band's technique? http://www.myspace.com/tdwp

honestly, he sounds throaty as hell

that band is so mediocre

[hxcturtle369]

honestly, he sounds throaty as hell

that band is so mediocre



What do you mean throaty as hell?

[kdash]

Here is what i mean:
http://download.yousendit.com/4D43BBB56672F753

[kdash]

A second question is that in my mind, I always though a female would naturally be able to sing higher than a male due to smaller vocal folds, but I have heard more than once where a female was straining on the high notes in a song and there was a comment that the key was made for a male, which would imply that males hit the high notes easier? Which is it? Or do female singers just try to sing the song an octave higher making it more difficult?

[Scarcely_Living]

The Devil Wears Prada is a band i like quite a bit, though, yes, his screaming is throated. Throaty in tone, though supported and proper. I can mimic relatively well, and his screams only roll through chest and head voices.
-As for his technique. I would recommend starting in your lower range and giving some belted low singing notes. The rasp really buzzes in your upper throat, far back. WITHOUT changing your larynx position play around with singing low and airing it up and out.... like add more air, and focus on pushing that air up in the throat. Again the larynx barely moves if at all... sometimes mine drops slightly to open up my throat. This position of low screaming really mimics the position your throat would be in when you burp. From their start playing with pulling it up.

As for the girls having consitently higher voices. I would also think this is true, though guys usually have a larger range, once they practice. Not that the average guy can go higher than a girl by any means, us guys can just go lower and stretch relatively high, especially through slipping into head and falsetto voices.



I do have one question for someone in the understanding of "screaming". I have sang/screamed for about a year now, never had any pain and such, but my problem lies in consitency. At times i have a full confortable screaming range that parallels my singing, these times i love. Sometimes, though, i get worked into a rut where for about a couple weeks i have difficulties. Placement issues that i know what i am doing wrong but can't change, like having problems with screaming glisses from low to high, and pulling that rasp forward as i do so. Anyone else share in this dilema???

replies desired

[hxcturtle369]

Audio sample of you doing this technique...I would really like to hear it.

[hxcturtle369]

well here is my sample...I was bored...enjoy




http://media.putfile.com/High-Pitched-Scream

[Merkaba]

The Devil Wears Prada is a band i like quite a bit, though, yes, his screaming is throated. Throaty in tone, though supported and proper. I can mimic relatively well, and his screams only roll through chest and head voices.
-As for his technique. I would recommend starting in your lower range and giving some belted low singing notes. The rasp really buzzes in your upper throat, far back. WITHOUT changing your larynx position play around with singing low and airing it up and out.... like add more air, and focus on pushing that air up in the throat. Again the larynx barely moves if at all... sometimes mine drops slightly to open up my throat. This position of low screaming really mimics the position your throat would be in when you burp. From their start playing with pulling it up.

As for the girls having consitently higher voices. I would also think this is true, though guys usually have a larger range, once they practice. Not that the average guy can go higher than a girl by any means, us guys can just go lower and stretch relatively high, especially through slipping into head and falsetto voices.



I do have one question for someone in the understanding of "screaming". I have sang/screamed for about a year now, never had any pain and such, but my problem lies in consitency. At times i have a full confortable screaming range that parallels my singing, these times i love. Sometimes, though, i get worked into a rut where for about a couple weeks i have difficulties. Placement issues that i know what i am doing wrong but can't change, like having problems with screaming glisses from low to high, and pulling that rasp forward as i do so. Anyone else share in this dilema???

replies desired

Gotta be able to do it with normal circumstances, aka singing. Do the same gliss or note melody with normal opera vowels to practice. You've got to be able to make the note at the same time as your rasp technique or a nano second after the normal note. The normal note should be the root of whatever youre doing.

[Merkaba]

A second question is that in my mind, I always though a female would naturally be able to sing higher than a male due to smaller vocal folds, but I have heard more than once where a female was straining on the high notes in a song and there was a comment that the key was made for a male, which would imply that males hit the high notes easier? Which is it? Or do female singers just try to sing the song an octave higher making it more difficult?

What you probably heard was a crap singer. But yea if a song is in just the right spot, it will be right at too high for the girl to go the next higher octave, and yet still too low to go an octave lower. But shifting the key of the song helps to hit the same melody and intervals in a higher or lower range, Which is the usual solution, especially if the recording is a serious one.

The female in general has smaller cords AND larynx so yes in general their range starts and stops higher. Generally range is about the same but nowadays range means how high you can sing which truely isnt range.

[kdash]

Merkaba, can you also comment on what i need to get on the right track to whistle?

[kdash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fluj4Fecfco

in the comments it says that the dude is just tightening his folds and not using the diaphragm. is this y i can't get any resonance when i try to go higher?

[Anthony_Green]

Merkaba is the man.

[Merkaba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fluj4Fecfco

in the comments it says that the dude is just tightening his folds and not using the diaphragm. is this y i can't get any resonance when i try to go higher?

Whistle is such a hit or miss thing if you just dont have a natural thing for it. It just takes practice. And to get any kind of decency out of it you will have to use your diaphragm. Maybe if youre just starting off you can try it shallowly without much push so you can know the proper position, if there is one. Resonance in whistle register? Well youve got to get a nice whistle first of all then maybe you can start shaping the larynx a bit to get a better resonance. Your cords need to be thin and closed so get a nice true voice high e and stop there and try to work on your first notes. You can also hum high notes with your mouth closed and then try to open up and get a whistle position. And just in case you havent heard of her, check out georgia brown http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6wSyIdwCFM

[Merkaba]

Merkaba is the man.

Thanks Ant I love you and your high tenor voice. But I think you should drop the cocaine from your profile. And saosin wasnt all that great! :chug: :rolleyes:

[kdash]

Whistle is such a hit or miss thing if you just dont have a natural thing for it. It just takes practice. And to get any kind of decency out of it you will have to use your diaphragm. Maybe if youre just starting off you can try it shallowly without much push so you can know the proper position, if there is one. Resonance in whistle register? Well youve got to get a nice whistle first of all then maybe you can start shaping the larynx a bit to get a better resonance. Your cords need to be thin and closed so get a nice true voice high e and stop there and try to work on your first notes. You can also hum high notes with your mouth closed and then try to open up and get a whistle position. And just in case you havent heard of her, check out georgia brown http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6wSyIdwCFM

What I mean by resonance is that when you hear the pro's do it, it seems that they get it so loud that they have to move their mic farther away like they would do with high notes.

[Merkaba]

What I mean by resonance is that when you hear the pro's do it, it seems that they get it so loud that they have to move their mic farther away like they would do with high notes.

Oh...Well technically you should never need to move the mic except maybe for whistle since is not as controllable. But what you describe isnt necessarily resonance. Thats just power and strength. Some falsettos with no resonance can be the same way. But it takes more luck and genetics to even have a decent whistle then youd then another dose of the same to be able to practice it enough to build power with it. Maybe you should post a sample.

[Alexcrex]

Hey Merk and everyone!

I posted it on the Voice-help thread also, but it seems ppl did not see it...

http://trig.com/samsara-maya

I explained everything in the other thread, but hey,,,just listen and tell me what you guys and girls fell about it.

Thanx a lot in advance!

Alexandre

[Merkaba]

Hey Merk and everyone!

I posted it on the Voice-help thread also, but it seems ppl did not see it...

http://trig.com/samsara-maya

I explained everything in the other thread, but hey,,,just listen and tell me what you guys and girls fell about it.

Thanx a lot in advance!

Alexandre

i responded in that thread

[Silent_gojira]

hey im new to this forum and I just want to ask how do people sing like Metallica or the way Trivium sing now(The Crusade) if you can help thnx.

[kdash]

Oh...Well technically you should never need to move the mic except maybe for whistle since is not as controllable. But what you describe isnt necessarily resonance. Thats just power and strength. Some falsettos with no resonance can be the same way. But it takes more luck and genetics to even have a decent whistle then youd then another dose of the same to be able to practice it enough to build power with it. Maybe you should post a sample.

http://download.yousendit.com/80CF00806736FECB

This is in my lower range, if i go higher i lack any consistency and power so it is hard to record. When I hit that with falsetto it sounds a little different so I just hope that i am on the right track.

[kdash]

I also noticed a nasal quality within my voice, how do i get rid of it? when i tried to aim the voice more towards the back to hit the soft palate i sound generic and emotionless. Are you suppose to let air out of your nose or hold the air? Could this be caused from the generic computer mics i use to record myself?

[Merkaba]

I also noticed a nasal quality within my voice, how do i get rid of it? when i tried to aim the voice more towards the back to hit the soft palate i sound generic and emotionless. Are you suppose to let air out of your nose or hold the air? Could this be caused from the generic computer mics i use to record myself?

nasal, are you referring to whistle notes?

[kdash]

nasal, are you referring to whistle notes?

I am referring to just normal singing. How it sounds kinda like how your nose is plugged, which mine is to a certain extent.

[kdash]

I read about not placing the mic too close to the nose to reduce this, but i still find it quite heavy on the higher notes, especially if i have to pronounce a n/ng.

[kdash]

nasal, are you referring to whistle notes?

Oh yeah, you didn't comment on whether i was on the right track in practicing whistle notes or not. I basically think if I were to breath out and wanted to stop that how i would do it. Which is adducting the vocal folds, then by just letting a tiny bit of air out I try to make notes.

[wammy_bar]

merkaba wats ur aim or msn or email or anything?

[Xero09]

Merk, I have a question about what I'm doing.

Seeing as how you're familiar with Saosin/Circa, I hope you'll understand my question. In some songs such as Mookies Last Christmas (when Ant/Cove sing "Twice" in the chorus) and in Voices (the final notes when Cove says "Real" twice), I USED to be able to push myself by forcing more air out to hit the notes. However, now (being sick) I've read that lowering your "adam's apple" and keeping a more open mouth helps access those notes without straining. However, I've noticed that I also get a raspy quality to higher notes as it amplifies rather well. My question is, am I stepping into falsetto by doing so or is this head voice?

[Merkaba]

Merk, I have a question about what I'm doing.

Seeing as how you're familiar with Saosin/Circa, I hope you'll understand my question. In some songs such as Mookies Last Christmas (when Ant/Cove sing "Twice" in the chorus) and in Voices (the final notes when Cove says "Real" twice), I USED to be able to push myself by forcing more air out to hit the notes. However, now (being sick) I've read that lowering your "adam's apple" and keeping a more open mouth helps access those notes without straining. However, I've noticed that I also get a raspy quality to higher notes as it amplifies rather well. My question is, am I stepping into falsetto by doing so or is this head voice?

No way I could tell you without hearing it. Do you know if youre a tenor? Those guys are, Ant is of course a high tenor. If youre not a tenor its gonna be sketchy to get it to sound decent on a regular basis, I dont care how much you work. Sometimes you could be hitting it in head and other times in falsetto when it comes to your borderline between registers. If you record it acapella then you'll really be able to tell what kinda quality you have. If you have laryngitis or if youre hoarse from your sickness please dont sing at all and dont talk unless you absolutely have to. Yes, there is NO reasont to push more air when trying to reach higher notes. Your cords are being pulled thinner and they actually need a bit less air. Over pushing at this point is really taxing on the system. Its like plucking your guitar's high e string really hard.

[Merkaba]

I am referring to just normal singing. How it sounds kinda like how your nose is plugged, which mine is to a certain extent.

Yours didnt sound too nasal to me. Alot of times being nasal comes from seeing tensely or with a higher larynx than necessary. Sing mid and low notes and try to mimic this throat feeling as you go higher. The throat doesnt move much when the cords move....at least it shouldnt/doesnt have to. Make sure you keep it relaxed like you do when singing a mid or low mid note.

[Xero09]

Well, I'm pretty sure I would fall under high baritone (bari-tenor?) because my normal speaking voice is around D below a C4 (not the explosive, the middle C). I'll try recording once I get better.

[kdash]

Yours didnt sound too nasal to me. Alot of times being nasal comes from seeing tensely or with a higher larynx than necessary. Sing mid and low notes and try to mimic this throat feeling as you go higher. The throat doesnt move much when the cords move....at least it shouldnt/doesnt have to. Make sure you keep it relaxed like you do when singing a mid or low mid note.

Since you heard me, am i closing together my vocal cords to try to whistle or am i doing something totally in the wrong direction?

[Merkaba]

Since you heard me, am i closing together my vocal cords to try to whistle or am i doing something totally in the wrong direction?

the link is expired and being that it was a while ago I can't remember all together, but theres really only one way to get whistle. Just keep practicing. Although there are many that say that whistle can be degrading to the vocal mechanism. All I know is its good to keep the larynx low and relaxed when trying to get whistle notes. Good luck.

[kdash]

It is difficult for me to know, because anything I can do with my 'whistle' i can also do with falsetto, but using a lot more air, so I guess i wont' know till i gain range. Another question is how to properly do belt notes?

[Anubis]

Hi Merkaba, I've been working on my voice for about 9 months, and I have a fairly big range. I have been trying to sing with a rasp like Rise Against's Tim McIlrath. I use 3 ways of getting a rasp: singing high like anthony green and clenching something in my throat slightly, adding a pitch to a metalcore scream, and finally mixing falsetto with my head voice. I want one single technique that I can apply to my whole range rather than navigating through three possibly harmful techniques. Any thoughts?

[Merkaba]

Hi Merkaba, I've been working on my voice for about 9 months, and I have a fairly big range. I have been trying to sing with a rasp like Rise Against's Tim McIlrath. I use 3 ways of getting a rasp: singing high like anthony green and clenching something in my throat slightly, adding a pitch to a metalcore scream, and finally mixing falsetto with my head voice. I want one single technique that I can apply to my whole range rather than navigating through three possibly harmful techniques. Any thoughts?
Did you read any of this thread? Go back to page one.

You should be able to rasp any note on any pitch with minimal push. Do away with any idea of "clenching" anything. Especially if you feel that you have to sing high in order to get this.

There is no such thing as mixing falsetto with anything. By definition its impossible.

Again, it boils down to the wrong answer buzzer "aannnnnk" type of rasp, or a slight dog growl. You can do these with very little push. It takes a bit of practice to get this incorporated with a normal note, but this is the area of the throat youre looking to use, while keeping the vocal cords under a normal singing tension. Gotta go for now.

[Anubis]

I see. Ill try reading some of the thread, but the 50 pages was off putting. Later.

[kdash]

another question is how to improve on the 'ee' and 'oo' vowels, i find them the hardest, since i can't open up as much as lets say 'ah'.

[Safety Chaser]

Merk, so I'm screaming for like a comple of songs during my band practice or whatever, and after that my vocals start feeling like crap. Not hurting, but just that feeling that I got to stop. I was sitting there think and wondering what the hell I'm going to do but I didn't know Melissa Cross's DVD seems a little unfocused on the actual teaching.

So, how do you think I could help my voice feel less restrained from my rasping... I've uploaded a file to stream to show you what I'm currently doing.

http://media.putfile.com/My-RaspScream

[Reckoning of Fire]

Hey Safety Chaser, your screams don't sound too bad. I can kinda hear you tensing up for the low screams, maybe closing your throat off? Maybe at band practices, try staying as relaxed as possible with like 50% push than what you're doing now and gradually work you way back up.

To be honest, I can't scream very well myself, I have trouble with the basic rasp, and getting my head around the "buzzer" or "dog growl" sound. I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to do. I can do the sounds but I'm not sure if I'm doing them right. Someone also said to me screaming is like sighing, can anyone please clear this up? I'll post audio clips if that'll help.