Opeth

[Dave de Sylvia]

It's an addition. Usually, anyway. I don't think it sounds too well without a fifth, although I'm sure it's used.

[Det_Nosnip]

Well, alot of jazz chords exclude the 5th but leave in the 3rd.

[Deth]

I'm seeing Opeth tomorrow! Zomg!

[Shattered_Future]

Well, alot of jazz chords exclude the 5th but leave in the 3rd.

When I play jazz chords, I usually just play 1, 3, and 7 if the chord doesn't call for anything else.

Opeth live is sweetness.

[eighty d]

I hate listening to guitarists talk about chords (I'm a guitarist). Such as BurningSky's Bbm6. He means that a 6th is added into the chord, but in normal theory a 6 after a chord just means it's in first inversion, the 3rd would be in the bass.

Ah, confusing...

[Det_Nosnip]

Yeah, shouldn't it be Bbmadd6, or something similar to that?

[Captain Quentin]

what genre is porcupine tree?

[Eliminator]

borecore

[Det_Nosnip]

Wow, that was...pointless. :rolleyes:

I would say that PT is progressive post rock.

[Clunge]

PT switch genres too much to be nailed down as one.

'Something' - Rock.

[Captain Quentin]

ahh i see :p are they anything like dream theater?

[jpshortstuff]

i wouldn't say they are. they're progressive, but different.

[Clunge]

ahh i see :p are they anything like dream theater?
They're a much more varied band than DT imo, and if you're into any progressive music you'll love Porcupine Tree.

[Eliminator]

They're a much more varied band than DT imo, and if you're into any progressive music you'll love Porcupine Tree.

this theory hasn't worked out for me yet

[BurningSky]

The best way to describe Porcupine Tree IMO is progressive pop-rock. The progressive covers all of their ambient instrumental sections, the pop covers their catchiness and verse-chorus-verse song structures, and the rock covers the instrument setup and the band's tone...

So yeah, progressive pop-rock...

[Toaster]

They're a much more varied band than DT imo, and if you're into any progressive music you'll love Porcupine Tree.

More varied than Dream Theater? No.

[Deth]

They are if you go back and count the first couple of albums.

[Thor]

More varied than Dream Theater? No.
More interesting than Dream Theater? No contest. :)

So yeah, for how long has My Arms Your Hearse been so incredibly good? I just started listening to that album again and, oh my god... so dark!

[Tyr]

Since forever, more or less.

[Thor]

Haha, I guess I just hadn't fully realized it. I've just come to love that album's atmosphere, and it's also really cool to see how they completely changed the way their guitars worked with each other in just one album. They really cut down on the twin guitar harmonies because Mikael hated them. :)

[Tyr]

I think one of the reasons why I like MAYH so much is because I expected something along the lines of MR and was so pleasantly surprised.

[Thor]

I think one of the reasons why I like MAYH so much is because I expected something along the lines of MR and was so pleasantly surprised.
And the first two albums, while being evil, were not as haunting and chilling as MAYH. This album reached a new level of creepiness with their atmosphere. Their riffs seemed to have gotten alot more dissonant.

Demon! Demon of the Fall! \m/

[Tyr]

The production is still quite crappy, but it's the atmosphere that does it for me.

[Thor]

The production is still quite crappy, but it's the atmosphere that does it for me.
I think the stringed instruments sound great, but the drums just sound odd on the first three albums. If they were fixed then there wouldn't be any production problems at all.

Like on Morningrise...the drums just sound fake to me.

[Tyr]

That they do, no question about it. I wonder how they 'achieved' that sound?

[Thor]

Weird drum mics would be my guess. I don't think they recorded their first few albums really nice studios so the quality of the drums probably suffered from the studio's quality.

Or perhaps they put the recorded drums through a sampler and made them sound really electronic. I know that Into Eternity did that on their last album. While they probably didn't do that, it's still a possibility.

[Tyr]

The mics is probably the correct answer. Anyhow, I'm glad that they don't sound like that on the rest of the albums.

[Shattered_Future]

Considering the type of music they played at the time, the youth of the band, and the area they were in, you're not gonna have the best of equipment. Drums always sound tinny on the first few releases, usually.

[Thor]

Oh man oh man, I just read Opeth's setlist for Gigantour. Talk about an orgasmic list of songs...

Ghost of Perdition
The Leper Affinity
Windowpane
Deliverance
Demon of the Fall

God, I would go nuts to every song on there.

[Eliminator]

um there are like two or three good songs

[Spoonful of Shame]

Yeah that is just awsome

um there are like two or three good songs

lies

[Thor]

um there are like two or three good songs
No way, every single song on that list gets no less than a 9.5/10 from me. They're all freakin' amazing.

[Tyr]

No way, every single song on that list gets no less than a 9.5/10 from me. They're all freakin' amazing.

QFT

[Deth]

I saw one with Godhead's Lament in and no Demon of the Fall, which I actually think is a superior set list.

I'm seeing them tonight so I shall give a report.

[Eliminator]

ghost of perdition and deliverance are yawny

[Thor]

The only song that I wish they added is To Bid You Farewell. They could substitute that out with Windowpane as their clean song and then this setlist would be the most unstoppable musical force on the planet.

ghost of perdition and deliverance are yawny
I love them so much, you're crazy. :)

Deliverance is even better live. Everyone goes nuts during the final heavy part at the end.

[Eliminator]

if anything they should just play beat it

fav opeth song

[Kage]

If you aren't an Opeth fan, why are you in here?

It'd be one thing if you were in here providing thoughtful debate, but you're not.

[Eliminator]

i like opeth

just because i think some of their songs are boring doesn't deter from that

[Kage]

Okay.

[omgwtfboogie]

"Ghost of Perdition" is my favorite Opeth song at the moment. I finally got into them, I'm happy

:)

[Clunge]

The Leper Affinity
Deliverance
Benighted
In My Time Of Need
Blackwater Park

That would be the best Opeth set, ever (if it was only 5 songs).

[Flynn]

Deliverance is even better live. Everyone goes nuts during the final heavy part at the end.

Indeed. I loved that song before I saw them live, and after seeing them play it live twice amplified my love for Deliverance even more. Both times I've seen them live, Deliverance was the highlight of the night. :)

[Kage]

I've never had a metal song give me so many shivers as when I saw Deliverance live, both when I was there and on Lamentations!

[Knifeboy]

Have any of you guys heard Steel - Heavy Metal Machine?

I'm listening to it now, and it's absolutely hilarious/awesome

[Flynn]

I've never had a metal song give me so many shivers as when I saw Deliverance live, both when I was there and on Lamentations!

The first time I went I was pretty far back during the entire concert. But the second time I was right up front, and Deliverance was insane! The show was great but Deliverance owned us all, it was majestic.

[Schizophrenia]

I might go see Opeth.

[Shattered_Future]

Have any of you guys heard Steel - Heavy Metal Machine?

I'm listening to it now, and it's absolutely hilarious/awesome

Swano's voice in that cracks me up every time.

[sonicst0rm]

Have any of you guys heard Steel - Heavy Metal Machine?

I'm listening to it now, and it's absolutely hilarious/awesome

can u upload it? I wanna hear it

[Knifeboy]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/c1via0

[Futuro]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/c1via0

Haha this is bad/funny :lol: I like the copy and pasted drum parts though :p

[pate]

Steel is good for a laugh, but Mike plays some really cool riffs and solos.

Gigantour talk

At my show, they only played
GoP
TLA
Windowpane
Deliverence


I was pissed that they quit playing GL after the first few shows.

[Shattered_Future]

I was up in arms with the omission of GL as well.

[pate]

I'd seen the other four live already. I yelled "Godhead's Lament" right before the second song. I was in the third row right in front of Bass. He laughed when I yelled it.

[Shattered_Future]

I hadn't seen Windowpane or TLA live, so both of those were pretty freaking awesome, but yea, Godhead's Lament would have made the night absolutely perfect.

[pate]

Definitely. I caught Glen Drover's pick, and got recognition from Bass, Glen, and Dave so I was a happy pater.

[Pinhead13]

I'm seeing Opeth at Gigantour today! can't wait... :chug:

[Thor]

Hope no one in here is in South America. They just cancelled all of their dates there.

[pate]

Yeah, that sucks for people there.

[Thor]

It's good news for me because that hopefully will cut down on the time inbetween now and the new album!!!

I'm so pumped for it.

[Spoonful of Shame]

Yeah they need to get recording. They have spent over a year or something touring which is awsome I want to hear a new album.

[Thor]

It's not so awesome when all they do is tour and never come near you. :upset:

[Kage]

Has it been a year already? Wow.

[Apocalypticon]

Really I don't think a year is a really long time. I do see why the should have to release anything anytime soon. Personally I would rather have them take abit longer and record another Still Life, than rush it and record another Ghost Reveries.

[Moses]

Really I don't think a year is a really long time. I do see why the should have to release anything anytime soon. Personally I would rather have them take abit longer and record another Still Life, than rush it and record another Ghost Reveries.

Screw that, GR is awesome.

And Kage, how'd you get a big avatar?

[Kage]

Did you guys hear about the special edition? I hate special editions. That's record company city. Ugh.

Moses - I'm an '03 l337.

[the2stranger]

Really I don't think a year is a really long time. I do see why the should have to release anything anytime soon. Personally I would rather have them take abit longer and record another Still Life, than rush it and record another Ghost Reveries.

I agree with you.
I'm no fan of GR. :-\

[Knifeboy]

You guys are crazy, GR is amazing...
Mikael's vocals on that album range from disturbingly evil, to hauntingly beautiful..

[Kage]

You guys are crazy, GR is amazing...
Mikael's vocals on that album range from disturbingly evil, to hauntingly beautiful..

This.

[Apocalypticon]

Ghost Reveries isn't a terrible album but it is very easily their worst album, and I think it was because ever since Black Water Park hit it big they have been in and out of the studio way to much and because of this I feel the song writing has suffered. They need to lock themselves in their tour bus for a god year and a half and just write songs, lots of them, thats the only way they are gonna get back to something everyone can love.

[the2stranger]

Indeed, it's not a bad album. but it's their weakest release imo and it lacks in the songwriting.
And it doesn''t have Wilson on production. :'(

[Deth]

Well, saw Opeth at Gigantour last night. I was really disappointed actually. Nowhere near as good as when I saw them headlining last year. They just seemed very tired.

They played:
The Grand Conjuration
The Leper Affinity
Windowpane
Deliverance

Seeing TGC again was also a bit of a letdown. But at least they weren't nearly as bad as Lamb of God.

[Kage]

They need to get off tour...and fast.

[the2stranger]

I would never pay money for something like Gigantour, the idea is good, but I think it's a disgrace that the band sonly get to play so short. (I know Opeth has long songs, but still. :p)

[Apocalypticon]

When I saw them live I really disliked the Grand Conjuration, but I really dislike it on the album as well. I don't think Opeth really have good enough set lists. They always pick songs that sound good on the albums but aren't meant to be live songs, like Under The Weeping Moon and The Amen Corner.

EDIT: Silly Gigantour, you only get 4 songs, whereas I got 11.

[Knifeboy]

And it doesn''t have Wilson on production. :'(

That doesn't matter much though, seeing as the production is still amazing..

[TojesDolan]

Rest is a priority, indeed.

Nonetheless I think the break between MAYH and Still Life was like a year or so.

[Kage]

Why are they only playing TGC from Ghost Reveries? It's easily the worst song on the whole album. I'll admit, live it kicked ***, but I'd still like to hear one of the better songs in place of it when they're playing a short set.

[the2stranger]

That doesn't matter much though, seeing as the production is still amazing..

Thhe production is good, but it doesn't have that characteristic SW sound. I'm just a sucker for his production sound.

But I do admitt, they had to try something else, as much as I like SW, you can't always be with the same producer. You need to try out new things too.

[Eliminator]

That doesn't matter much though, seeing as the production is still amazing..

umm what makes the productio amazing on GR?

it's kidna dry and bland

[Deth]

I was a little vexed because all the other shows I saw opened with Ghost of Perdition, and I was ready for the keyboard part, but they went into that instead.

[TojesDolan]

umm what makes the productio amazing on GR?

it's kidna dry and bland
It's a lot more raw than BWP and D&D, nonetheless it's sounds stiff.

[Apocalypticon]

You need to try out new things too.
I couldn't agree more. the fact that they changed from Steve Wilson shows that they aren't just trying to make another MAYH. The producing on Ghost Reveries was actually well done, and although different from Steve's it was still comparable.

[the2stranger]

BWP has my favorite Opeth production. :)
I love it.

I couldn't agree more. the fact that they changed from Steve Wilson shows that they aren't just trying to make another MAYH. The producing on Ghost Reveries was actually well done, and although different from Steve's it was still comparable.
Exactly. :)

[Eliminator]

it fits them the best

[Knifeboy]

umm what makes the productio amazing on GR?

it's kidna dry and bland

I don't think it's dry and bland at all..
I actually think the production is extremely crisp and clear

[TojesDolan]

I don't think it's dry and bland at all..
I actually think the production is extremely crisp and clear
Probably too crisp and clear.

They need a darker kind of production. Which is unlikely since they have money now to make their recordings sound "clean".

[Knifeboy]

If you want less crisp and clear, Wilson wouldn't have been the right choice either though...
I know what you mean though, I wouldn't mind it if Opeth released a new album with.. .. "metal" production

[Eliminator]

i wnat to hear opeth record an album with a children's choir

[TojesDolan]

Still Life production is nifty.

[Moses]

You guys are kinda funny. Opeth doesn't need to do anything except make more music. I'm pretty much happy with everything.

They do seem kinda tired on tour though.

[Knifeboy]

Yeah.. I think Åkerfeldt should take like, half a year off or something like that, he seems like he's kind of a workaholic

[TojesDolan]

Maybe he just needs to get laid.

[Thor]

i wnat to hear opeth record an album with a children's choir
ala "Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2"? Excellent.

They really do need to stop playing shows for a while once Gigantour finishes up. I crave new Opeth songs. Now.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

It doesn't sound like they're mixing up the setlist much for Gigantour... I'd be bored after playing the same set over and over again as well.

Then again, Tojes could be correct.

[Det_Nosnip]

Hope no one in here is in South America. They just cancelled all of their dates there.

Well, After Forever is doing like their 4th tour there, so my sympathy is lost on the South Americans. :upset: Not to mention the "Loud and Louder" fests are consistently amazing...

[Tojes]

After Forever was near my location a few months ago, so good times.

Anyway, they cancelled the tour since like, July. :(

I was so sad.

[Det_Nosnip]

If you want less crisp and clear, Wilson wouldn't have been the right choice either though...
I know what you mean though, I wouldn't mind it if Opeth released a new album with.. .. "metal" production

Well, BWP and Deliverance were pretty dark...nice balance production-wise.

[Clunge]

BWP = my fave production.

[Thor]

I really like the production on GR the most. Major labels are really nice for that. :)

Too bad it's their weakest album.

[Kage]

Blackwater Park has the best production.

[TojesDolan]

Everything sounds gigantic in Blackwood Park.

[BurningSky]

The tones of the instruments on GR are great, except the keyboards, which I thought were thin. Steven Wilson creates very lush sounds with his keys, one of my favorite things about his projects...

[VomitStainedCretin]

If you want less crisp and clear, Wilson wouldn't have been the right choice either though...
I know what you mean though, I wouldn't mind it if Opeth released a new album with.. .. "metal" production

Kinda like on MAYH? The production on that is awesome, except the drums are pretty low in the mix. It dirty, heavy, but not muddy. The part where Prologue goes into April Ethereal is just gorgeously raw. :smoke:

[Shadows]

I really like the production on GR the most. Major labels are really nice for that. :)

Too bad it's their weakest album.

To me, everything post-Still Life sounds perfect.

[TojesDolan]

That's the thing. It sounds too perfect. I think Still Life/MAYH era production values were dirty, but not out of human comprehension.

[BurningSky]

Still Life production is much better than MAYH production. I think it was too muddy on MAYH, whereas Still Life was dirty, but crisp...

The acoustics on MAYH always sound behind everything, and the guitar harmonies clash too much and create a "wall-of-sound" effect that diminishes the value of the chords that Mikael uses. Still Life still has that metal production, but everything can be deciphered...

[TojesDolan]

Demon Of the Fall is top notch.

I think it's funny how particular songs in some albums sound like completely atemporal and out of context when listened with the album... that happened to me with Iron Maiden and "the trooper", which seemed so out of context compared to the rest of the songs in "Piece of Mind".

That kinda happens with Demon of the Fall.

I think.

[VomitStainedCretin]

All the songs prior to Demon of the Fall flow into each other on MAYH, then the flow is interrupted by that weird howling noise. Maybe thats why it sounds out of context.

The Wall of Sound is one of the reasons I like the production on MAYH, it gives it a dark and chaotic edge over their more cleanly produced albums. Granted I think its too muddy in some places, but I think Opeth sound best dark and evil. This is also why I love Deliverance - Dark 'N Evil. :) :) :)

[Thor]

MAYH had much better production than the first two because it just sounded much more full than the past two. Everything sounded separate and it didn't mesh as well as the instruments did on MAYH. Still, Orchid and Morningrise are pretty amazing albums in their own respect.

[Det_Nosnip]

Demon is one of the only tracks that stands alone well on MAYH in my opinion. I think that it fits the album perfectly, it just stands out more.

How the hell did Mikael write those insanely dissonant verse riffs? Not that they're difficult to play, or anything...just extremely unusual.

[Kage]

What time signature are those in?

[Det_Nosnip]

12/8 or 6/4.

[BurningSky]

Which verse riff are you talking about? I don't think of that song as having a verse or a chorus...

[Stormrider]

"Silent Dance with Death..."

That part I think...

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

The Wall of Sound is one of the reasons I like the production on MAYH, it gives it a dark and chaotic edge over their more cleanly produced albums.
Meh, I like the scrutinized production on new Opeth records; if I want raw production, I'd rather listen to Mayhem.

[Det_Nosnip]

^^ Meh...I'd rather NOT listen to Mayhem, personally.

"Silent Dance with Death..."

That part I think...

Yep.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

I should have noted that I listen to Opeth a lot more than I listen to Mayhem, heh.

[pate]

I was a little vexed because all the other shows I saw opened with Ghost of Perdition, and I was ready for the keyboard part, but they went into that instead.

Live, they leave out the intro keyboard. It just goes right into "GHOST OF MOTHER"

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

What, I thought that was just a clean guitar. :-/

[pate]

So did I, but I figured that's what he was referring to. Anyhow, they leave it out live :p

[Moses]

It's clean guitar with keyboard in the back I believe.

[Det_Nosnip]

"Harmonized" is what the music folks are calling it, these days. :p

[i am the robots]

Are you serious?

[Darkness]

Really? Because I thought I found chords on the guitar that sound exactly like it a while back.

[TojesDolan]

Demon is one of the only tracks that stands alone well on MAYH in my opinion. I think that it fits the album perfectly, it just stands out more.

How the hell did Mikael write those insanely dissonant verse riffs? Not that they're difficult to play, or anything...just extremely unusual.
The guitars play a very similar from low-to-high and high-to-low in that section, and they are in the same note, I think E, and then go to different places from there.

Very good riff nonetheless.

[Det_Nosnip]

They're in D according to the transcription I've seen. Here's what I have:

Guitar 1:
D bass note is constant; Following melody is played in octaves (starting 1 octave up):
B, C#, D, / E, F, / G, A / G#, G, F /

That's the easy one.

Guitar 2:
D is contant again, but this time it's in the bottom octave of the melody.
Octaves:
A, E, F/ A / D, F, E / G#, G, F, D/

I mean, seriously...who comes up with this stuff? :p

[Thor]

Musical gods, that's who.

[Shattered_Future]

It must be because they're Swedish.

[Det_Nosnip]

That's possible. :p

The main melody is pretty much just running up the diminished D scale...it's that harmony line with all the minor seconds and weirdness that gets me. It's also such an...atypical musical device, especially for a metal song.

I'm really curious what it would sound like done on strings. :eek:

*tries it*

[Shadows]

I hate the sound of seconds. It's pretty impressive if they can make odd crap like that sound good.

[Thor]

Especially minor seconds. Worst interval ever.

[Eliminator]

That's actually my favorite interval.

oh well

[Shadows]

You have a favorite interval? How oddly specific.

I <3 Opeth.

[Kage]

Doesn't Opeth use minor seconds quite a bit?

[Eliminator]

Yeah, they do.

[Kage]

It's strange, then, that those guys love Opeth yet hate the minor second.

[Shadows]

I don't dissect riffs to make sure they're not using seconds. I just listen to it if it sounds good.

[Kage]

I'm not saying you do, but if you "hate the sound of seconds" than you'd just hate the sound they were making when using seconds, whether or not you were cognisent of the fact.

[Shadows]

I didn't mean that as a set-in-stone testament to any sound that humans can create. When I play around with instruments and tap out different scale intervals, the second usually sounds just chromatic to me.

[Kage]

Nope, what you said sticks. You shouldn't like Opeth.

[Eliminator]

i used to think that opeth were otep a couple years ago

[Shadows]

:upset:

[Thor]

I'm pretty sure that they don't use them that often. If they did then their songs would sound more than just dissonant, it would just sound bad. They probably don't use them very often like you said.

[Shattered_Future]

I love when a band can harmonize in minor seconds and still make it sound good. ie The Drapery Falls.

[Thor]

I love when a band can harmonize in minor seconds and still make it sound good. ie The Drapery Falls.
Oh, totally forgot about that song. Well I guess that is a pretty good example. You know you're a good composer when you can make stuff like that work.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

My favorite interval would probably be a fifth.

Ooooooooshi'

[Eliminator]

ew @ neither major or minor/happy intervals ewwww

[Det_Nosnip]

I'm pretty sure that they don't use them that often. If they did then their songs would sound more than just dissonant, it would just sound bad. They probably don't use them very often like you said.

Umm...honestly, I'm not sure that you know what you're talking about. :p I would actually venture to say that the minor second is a foundation of Opeth's sound, whether as an interval or as a harmony. They're really common in metal and work great for heavy riffs. As far as minor seconds sounding chromatic....well, that's because they generally ARE a chromatic interval. Honestly, almost all metal other than power metal uses some chromaticism - some, like Opeth, more than others. The diminished scale is chock full of minor seconds, and alot of Opeth's heavy stuff is based around it.

I went ahead and put the beginning of Demon of the Fall to an orchestra...it actually doesn't sound half bad. It would sound amazing if I could find some decent quality samples. Check it out! Let me know what you guys think.

http://download.yousendit.com/3B5DE195754EF6FB

[Knifeboy]

Minor seconds don't sound bad at all when used in a melody built over a drone note.. Wich is what Opeth does whenever they use it..

[Kage]

Umm...honestly, I'm not sure that you know what you're talking about. :p I would actually venture to say that the minor second is a foundation of Opeth's sound, whether as an interval or as a harmony. They're really common in metal and work great for heavy riffs. As far as minor seconds sounding chromatic....well, that's because they generally ARE a chromatic interval. Honestly, almost all metal other than power metal uses some chromaticism - some, like Opeth, more than others. The diminished scale is chock full of minor seconds, and alot of Opeth's heavy stuff is based around it.

I went ahead and put the beginning of Demon of the Fall to an orchestra...it actually doesn't sound half bad. It would sound amazing if I could find some decent quality samples. Check it out! Let me know what you guys think.

http://download.yousendit.com/3B5DE195754EF6FB
That sounds pretty awesome, actually. Opeth's music translates really well. Good work.

[Shattered_Future]

Ted, this is pretty awesome. Aside from the fact that it's blatantly MIDIed (:p), if this was for real instruments, it would kill.

[magicbus]

So "Ending Credits" came on when I had shuffle on yesterday. That's a pretty sweet song. I'll have to listen to Damnation.

[TojesDolan]

So "Ending Credits" came on when I had shuffle on yesterday. That's a pretty sweet song. I'll have to listen to Damnation.
Damnation is allegedly based on 70's rock and stuff, so yeah you might dig it. :)

[pate]

Ending Credits is the best song on it.

[TojesDolan]

I still support

WEAKNESS

but ok

[Tyr]

Ending Credits is the best song on it.

It's great, but so inspired by Camel.

[Eliminator]

yeah most opeth is

camel are good

[pate]

That's why it's so good! Camel owns.

[Det_Nosnip]

Ted, this is pretty awesome. Aside from the fact that it's blatantly MIDIed (:p), if this was for real instruments, it would kill.

I know! I'm telling you, get a string orchestra together, a conductor with some balls, and have at it...here are some tunes that I think would work great:

Demon of the Fall
Lepar Affinity
Bleak
Deliverance
Windowpane
To Rid the Disease
The Drapery Falls
Godhead's Lament
The Moor (maybe...these two might depend too much on the "folkiness" aspect)

A few soft songs on there, but it's the heavy part of Opeth that IMO is the most interesting in terms of transcribing to classical instrumentation.

[Knifeboy]

Ted, what'd you use for those midi sounds? I have an orchestra VST that is pretty damned good, I could send you

[Shattered_Future]

I don't remember who posted it, but I remember somebody posted some guy who did a piano rendition of Damnation and added some of his own compositions based around it in there. That was quite cool.

[Det_Nosnip]

Ted, what'd you use for those midi sounds? I have an orchestra VST that is pretty damned good, I could send you

I used Finale's default sound library. Which VST do you have?

[pate]

I don't remember who posted it, but I remember somebody posted some guy who did a piano rendition of Damnation and added some of his own compositions based around it in there. That was quite cool.

I have it. It's pretty cool.

I think I'm going to mess around in GuitarPro, converting Opeth songs into orchestra arrangements. :p

[guitrguy]

I've been wanting to arrange Mikaels vocals into a choral arrangment.

[Det_Nosnip]

I have it. It's pretty cool.

I think I'm going to mess around in GuitarPro, converting Opeth songs into orchestra arrangements. :p

Join the club. :D

[Knifeboy]

I used Finale's default sound library. Which VST do you have?

Edirol HQ Orchestral VST

[Eliminator]

I know! I'm telling you, get a string orchestra together, a conductor with some balls, and have at it...here are some tunes that I think would work great:

Demon of the Fall
Lepar Affinity
Bleak
Deliverance
Windowpane
To Rid the Disease
The Drapery Falls
Godhead's Lament
The Moor (maybe...these two might depend too much on the "folkiness" aspect)

A few soft songs on there, but it's the heavy part of Opeth that IMO is the most interesting in terms of transcribing to classical instrumentation.

An orchestral arrangement of "The Leper Affinity" would be awesome if done right.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

Knifeboy - I'm not quite sure how VST's work..Do you run that in Cool Edit or what? I've downloaded a few and tried to run them in Audacity to no avail. I've also tried to use a VST host which also didn't work.

:confused:

[TojesDolan]

Guitar Pro is good for my musical needs at the moment.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

GP4 is good for getting down ideas and sharing compositions, but I am down right sick of tabbing all my songs out in it. It makes me feel obligated to write the song exactly as it will be played. I'm not a perfectionist by any means, so it really isn't me coming through the music.

Then again I don't have any quality recording equipment, so it'll have to do for now. :p

[pate]

I love it. I don't get to play guitar much anymore, so I use it for writing.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

What kind of stuff do you write, Pate? I've only heard the song your entered in the swords and sorcery comp, so I've always been under the impression that you write black metal.

[Shadows]

An orchestral arrangement of "The Leper Affinity" would be awesome if done right.
Ew, that songs would sound horrible in an arrangement.

[TojesDolan]

Who knows it might turn out well. :eek:

On a related note, I write a lot of everything, currently focusing on pop-rock, with sudden taints of Led-Zeppelin-esque riffs to make it interesting. I hate how most pop-rock and mainstream rock nowadays has simplified waaay to much, and I like the arrangements in classic rock guitar playin, so there you go.

[pate]

What kind of stuff do you write, Pate? I've only heard the song your entered in the swords and sorcery comp, so I've always been under the impression that you write black metal.

Oh, I write all kinds of stuff. Blues, acoustic, traditional metal, death metal, doom metal, thrash metal, black metal. I seriously cannot go five minutes without coming up with a cool (at the time) idea.

[Knifeboy]

Knifeboy - I'm not quite sure how VST's work..Do you run that in Cool Edit or what? I've downloaded a few and tried to run them in Audacity to no avail. I've also tried to use a VST host which also didn't work.

:confused:

Audicity and cool edit doesn't really offer much support for VST's, I use fruityloops for VSTs..
The "demo" version of renoise : http://www.renoise.com/download.php is a good freely available alternative though.. Only downside is, you can't export your work to a sound file in the demo.. But that's not much of a problem , since you can just play it, and record the output with another program

[Eliminator]

Ew, that songs would sound horrible in an arrangement.

stop being wrong

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

i have fl, knifeboy

can you record in fl though

[Knifeboy]

Yeah, you can, but I don't know how.. Hehehe. I just use it for sequencing

[Det_Nosnip]

If I can find a way of making it work in Finale, that would be sweet. From a compositional standpoint, I find sequencing somewhat pointless. Although fun to play with, there's really no need for them, and they make a poor substitute if you're actually trying to write parts for the given instruments, as the mechanics of a piano are completely different than those of...say, a distorted guitar, or a violin. Programmed instruments can be very limited, especially in terms of feel, but trying to record polyphonic music of that degree takes "pain in the ***" to new levels. :p

[pate]

I'm over halfway done with my (shitty) orchestral Bleak. It needs some work, but I'll upload it when I'm done.

[Shattered_Future]

I cannot STAND programming keyboard lines that I can't play. There's no bloody dynamics at all, and it usually comes out rather mechanical sounding, coupled with the only semidecency of the soundclips.

[Det_Nosnip]

True, but it gets the ideas out there and provides a template to use when you finally decide to hire/find people to play everything.

Finale is capable of incorporating dynamic changes, by the way. It simply takes more time....you have to actually write in all of the accentuations, etc...although, in some respect, this is actually a good thing, as it trains your mind to become more precise in transcriptions.

[Det_Nosnip]

Edirol HQ Orchestral VST

Sounds tasty...yeah, I'll take it, if you don't mind. My e-mail address is twpinson@yahoo.com

[sonicst0rm]

if you wanna make the music have more feel, you have to put it thru filters and automate a lot of it throughout the song... Ususally you get a base down and then run it through all of the stuff until it sounds good. Can be a pain sometimes. I used to be into music producing but it was just a hobby

If you have a velocity sensitive keyboard you can attach the dynamics to pretty much any control, it helps sometimes with what you're trying to do.

Cubase, Ableton and FL will all probably work for those orchestral VST instruments. there's a lot of packs so you can sample them as well, but i've never really tried symphonic stuff like that so I don't know what's good that's out there.

[Shattered_Future]

Garageband does a decent job with what I want to do at the moment though. I want to get Logic Pro 7 sooner or later, even though I don't have a grand to spare. :mad:

[Det_Nosnip]

http://www.emule.com

If you don't feel bad about stealing, you can get anything from Emule.

[Knifeboy]

The file is sent

[Crysiss]

Garageband does a decent job with what I want to do at the moment though. I want to get Logic Pro 7 sooner or later, even though I don't have a grand to spare. :mad:


You wouldnt steal it?

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

When will Garageband become PC compatible? :mad:

[ayeron]

@Dr. Jake Destructo, I don't think it will ever happen

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

I know, but I can only hope...Is there any PC-compatible program with the versatily and ease of use that can paralell Garageband?

[Shattered_Future]

You wouldnt steal it?

Course I would, aside from the fact that it's impossible to find Mac centric software to steal.

EDIT: Ted, am I doing something wrong with this site? Where do I find stuff?

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

Yeah, I feel stupid for not being able to navigate a site with 3 links. :p

[Det_Nosnip]

Course I would, aside from the fact that it's impossible to find Mac centric software to steal.

EDIT: Ted, am I doing something wrong with this site? Where do I find stuff?

You have to download the Emule program...it's a P2P file sharing program similar to Limewire, etc. Cool avatar, btw...what's it from?

[Det_Nosnip]

The file is sent

Cool, I got it....thanks alot, man! Unfortunately, I've had a whole lot of...no time to work on stuff lately.

[Killtacular]

My Arms, Your Hearse is genius.

Especially Karma.

[Txus]

That song is great, one of my favorites. The drums are sooo damn good.

[VomitStainedCretin]

My Arms, Your Hearse is genius.

Especially Karma.

Personally Ive always found Karma one of the weaker tracks on MAYH, Im more of a fan of April Ethereal. I think the Amen Corner is underated - its not one of the highlights of the album, but its a solid Opeth tracks with great riffs and lyrics.

[Eliminator]

Opeth played in my backyard last night.

[Thor]

My Arms, Your Hearse is genius.

Especially Karma.
I'm really digging Epilogue right now. What a powerful way to end that album.

[Shattered_Future]

You have to download the Emule program...it's a P2P file sharing program similar to Limewire, etc. Cool avatar, btw...what's it from?

Tis the cover of Ghosts Of Loss by Swallow The Sun. Absolutely terrific doom album.

Ah, ok...man, now I gotta download more stuff. :mad:

[Stoo]

I'm really digging Epilogue right now. What a powerful way to end that album.

Yeah Epilogue is great. Even though I don't listen to it as much as I should.

NP: Serenity Painted Death.

[Thor]

So I finally got around to learning all of the bass parts in The Leper Affinity. What a fun song to play with.

[Eliminator]

duh nuh-nuh nerrw nuh nuh, nerw nah-nah nuh nah

DUH DUH DUN DUN

[Thor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFBn-97_9k

Every Opeth fan must see this video. It's so awesome and hilarious.

[beso negro]

duh nuh-nuh nerrw nuh nuh, nerw nah-nah nuh nah

DUH DUH DUN DUN

hahaha.

tritones have never sounded so good.

[Shattered_Future]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFBn-97_9k

Every Opeth fan must see this video. It's so awesome and hilarious.

That was NOT ****ing Guns N Roses.

Ted, eMule only works for Windows...:mad:

[Gittermonkey11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFBn-97_9k

Every Opeth fan must see this video. It's so awesome and hilarious.

heh.... Smoke on the water by Black Sabbath?

[TojesDolan]

So I finally got around to learning all of the bass parts in The Leper Affinity. What a fun song to play with.
Oh boy yes. It tires my hand a lot, and I can't really sing the "I am beyond death, mdist this dreaming affinity... yabadda" part and play it at the same time. Or make my hands work at the acoustic, mellow part in a solid way.

On a related note, The growled section of Moonlapse Vertigo is actually pretty play-sing-along, but I can't get around it yet. =[

sup a lot of new people.

[beso negro]

Every Opeth fan must see this video. It's so awesome and hilarious.

Try this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/juddy/opeth_timmy.gif

[Eliminator]

hahaha.

tritones have never sounded so good.

There are a bunch of tritone parts in that song.

You never realize how much you suck until you try learning other people's songs. :(

[TojesDolan]

There are a bunch of tritone parts in that song.

You never realize how much you suck until you try learning other people's songs. :(
Do you know what's worse than that?

Not having an idea of what a tritone is lolol

*wikis*

[beso negro]

a tritone is an augmented 4th or diminished 5th. If you play guitar, play this:

---
---
-10
-9-
-8-
---

that's the tritone. The church banned the tritone hundreds of years ago because they hated the sound. It was coined " the devil's interval"

Opeth uses it in many songs.

[Eliminator]

Probably most obvious use is in the song "Black Sabbath".

[TojesDolan]

AH, Diabolus in Musica.

Yes, the second riff in Deliverance, for instance. Good, I couldn't find a good explanation of the fuggin' tritone on the internets. Thanks. Here have some tofu you two.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

A better way to remember a tritone(at least for me) is just to think of a 1.5-step scale. :thumb:

1.5 steps = 3 semitones or a tritone

[Duman]

Purple haaaaze!

(=tritone)

[Eliminator]

Still Life's clean/acoustic parts seem a lot more jazzy than the stuff on their other albums.

[Toaster]

a tritone is an augmented 4th or diminished 5th. If you play guitar, play this:

---
---
-10
-9-
-8-
---

that's the tritone. The church banned the tritone hundreds of years ago because they hated the sound. It was coined " the devil's interval"

Opeth uses it in many songs.

Is that seriously true? I find it hard to believe. Just because they don't like the sound they label it sinful?

[Eliminator]

I'm pretty sure that they actually thought it would conjure demons.

Then again, they considered the 3rd a dissonance.

[Toaster]

That's pretty stupid.

A fifth can be dissonant as well, anyway. For example if you're playing in a key with a flat 2nd note (can't remember any specific modes), and you play a fifth harmony on the fifth note of the scale, you'll be playing the natural 2nd rather than the flat 2nd, therefore creating dissonance.

Example of this: Opeth- Death Whispered a Lullaby

When he says "where the lost souls hide" he sings the natural second of the minor scale.. even though the acoustic had clearly established a flatted second tonality.

That really doesn't have anything to do with fifths but that pretty much ruins the song for me.

Just while I'm on that, when he says "Never return from this place" in Hope Leaves, the "never" is totally off key and pretty much ruins the song for me.

:p

[Jude]

Still Life's clean/acoustic parts seem a lot more jazzy than the stuff on their other albums.

Some of them do, while others seem much more folk-sounding. It's really unique. I love it.

[Stormrider]

Still Life Acoustics really are good. But, Opeth acoustics in general are always good.

[Toaster]

I haven't found much Opeth to be jazzy. For Absent Friends is a bit, but nothing else has that sort of feel.. I agree with the folk thing though. Especially the early material.

[Eliminator]

Lots of the stuff on Still Life sounds jazzy to me.

Second favorite Opeth album neato.

[Stormrider]

True about the early material. One of the acoutic riffs early int eh song Black Rose Immortal comes to mind. I'm not too sure if it actually is a folk melody, bu it heavily reminds me of one.

[static]

That's odd, I was mowing yesterday while listening to Morningrise, and that's exactly what I was thinking about. They seem to mix so many different genres of music together, but it all sounds like one thing. And the 'Immortal section definitely sounds folk influenced.

[Duman]

That's pretty stupid.

A fifth can be dissonant as well, anyway. For example if you're playing in a key with a flat 2nd note (can't remember any specific modes), and you play a fifth harmony on the fifth note of the scale, you'll be playing the natural 2nd rather than the flat 2nd, therefore creating dissonance.



Yeah that's the Locrian mode, which Opeth whores out all the time.

[Stoo]

Sometimes when I see people using alot of theory to describe music or a band...

For example

Yeah that's the Locrian mode, which Opeth whores out all the time.

I'm thinking... I wonder how much Opeth new about that... Like were they thinking that they would use this mode...??

Or were they just coming up with something that sounds GODLY.

[Duman]

Sometimes when I see people using alot of theory to describe music or a band...

For example



I'm thinking... I wonder how much Opeth new about that... Like were they thinking that they would use this mode...??

Or were they just coming up with something that sounds good.

That's a strange term to use to describe Opeth's music :lol:

I heard they improvise most of the solos when writing them so they must know their way around the Locrian scale to some extent.

[Eliminator]

Even though Akerfeldt pretty much says he doesn't know what he's playing most of the time.

[Thor]

Even though Akerfeldt pretty much says he doesn't know what he's playing most of the time.
I find that hard to believe, as his solos are really close to the studio versions. At least in all live videos I have seen.

[Stormrider]

No he means, he doesn't know what he's playig as in, theory wise.

I think that's what Elimnator means..

[Eliminator]

That's what I meant.

[BurningSky]

If you watch the Opeth guitar lessons, the interviewer guy asks Mikael what the chord is that he uses in the main acoustic section of The Drapery Falls, and Mike replies with, "I have no idea. I use it all the time, though."

I'm sure he knows something of scales, though, even if he doesn't know the names...

[Shadows]

That's a strange term to use to describe Opeth's music :lol:

I heard they improvise most of the solos when writing them so they must know their way around the Locrian scale to some extent.
They do improvise many/most of their solos, but at the same time I find that hard to believe. They're very coherent and use some unusual techniques that seem way too "thought out" to be improvised.

[Thor]

It's also hard to believe because they'll play them again the same way live. They probably just came up with several licks and ideas in their head and linked them together. But I highly doubt that they came up with every single part of their solos right on the spot.

[Duman]

Yeah that's probably how they do it. But they must know some theory because it would be way too tedious coming up with something like that by ****ing around until it sounds good.

[Thor]

Yeah, plus if you've been playing guitar for however long they've been playing I'm sure they've picked up plenty of musical knowledge along the way.

[Shadows]

They probably just came up with several licks and ideas in their head and linked them together. But I highly doubt that they came up with every single part of their solos right on the spot.
That's what improvisation is. Obviously people don't spontaneously think up every single note while recording. I'm sure once they get something recorded they can stick with what they came up with then and use that same solo love.

[Det_Nosnip]

That's pretty stupid.

A fifth can be dissonant as well, anyway. For example if you're playing in a key with a flat 2nd note (can't remember any specific modes), and you play a fifth harmony on the fifth note of the scale, you'll be playing the natural 2nd rather than the flat 2nd, therefore creating dissonance.

Example of this: Opeth- Death Whispered a Lullaby

When he says "where the lost souls hide" he sings the natural second of the minor scale.. even though the acoustic had clearly established a flatted second tonality.

That really doesn't have anything to do with fifths but that pretty much ruins the song for me.

Just while I'm on that, when he says "Never return from this place" in Hope Leaves, the "never" is totally off key and pretty much ruins the song for me.

:p
Wow, you are ridiculously picky. :rolleyes: Opeth are a group that pretty much thrives on music that is "out of key."


They do improvise many/most of their solos, but at the same time I find that hard to believe. They're very coherent and use some unusual techniques that seem way too "thought out" to be improvised.
I think that Mikael tends to be more of an improviser than Peter. Peters' solos tend to be a bit more technical and "coherent," whereas alot (not necessarily all) of Mikaels sound more bluesy and improvised.

[Shadows]

I think that Mikael tends to be more of an improviser than Peter. Peters' solos tend to be a bit more technical and "coherent," whereas alot (not necessarily all) of Mikaels sound more bluesy and improvised.
I think so too. Mikael seems like a very jazz/blues-based guitarist whereas Peter's solos seem to be more straightforward metal, without going into all-out shredding.

[beso negro]

I am kind of confused by this too. I think Mikael improvises, because in that video that BurningSky mentioned, Mikael states that he forgot how to play most of the Drapery Falls solo.

But when I saw opeth live, Mikael played the solo to "White Cluster" exactly as on was on the record. So idk.

[Eliminator]

How do you pronounce Mikael's name?

I'm assuming it's not pronounced "Michael"

[Det_Nosnip]

Nope, that's how it is pronounced. The last name is tricky, though - "OAK-er- Fell-t"

As far as the whole tritone thing is concerned, I usually just treat them as diminished power chords.

[Tyr]

It's pronounced Mee-kah-el.

I'll see if I can find some IPA symbols to better show the pronounciation.

['mi:kʰaɛl o:kʰɛʐfɛltʰ]

Or something like close to that.

[Shadows]

I am kind of confused by this too. I think Mikael improvises, because in that video that BurningSky mentioned, Mikael states that he forgot how to play most of the Drapery Falls solo.
Bands often become out of practice on some songs and occasionally forget completely. I don't think this has anything to do with improvising, it's because some bands have so many songs written that it's incredibly difficult to keep them all memorized and sharp at all times. This is especially true for articulate progressive bands like Opeth.

[Daven]

It's pronounced Mee-kah-el.

I'll see if I can find some IPA symbols to better show the pronounciation


^^^^That's the way I pronounce it.