Opeth

[Darkness]

Something about how a childs mother gets possessed by a demon or a ghost, and eventually destroys her and attempts to take him over. But he rejects it, but eventually gives in (the grand conjuration) then isolates himself from the rest of the world (isolation years) and someone sends him a letter asking him to return, or something like that..

[UpperDecker]

wow Darkness Of Greed, thats a great idea for the concept.(no sarcasm) You'd think that i would have figured some of that out with the lyrics "Ghost of mother" etc.

[Killtacular]

Ghost Reveries is a concept album. But, this doesn't mean it has a storyline.

[UpperDecker]

It might have a story line, and it might not. I just thought that it did because of the reacurring topics. maybe i'm wrong

[Flynn]

Ghost Reveries is a concept album. But, this doesn't mean it has a storyline.

:confused:

Put My Arms, Your Hearse in your player and read along with the entire album. Then put Ghost Reveries in and do the same. :thumb:

[Darkness]

Mike hasn't stated if it has a story or not, but I really like that story, so I think I'll keep thinking thats what its about. :)

[bball_1523]

Hate to disappoint you but that show might not happen. Visa trouble

Goodnight,folks.

I just heard about it. I am actually relieved in some ways because I do not like how the LA show is on a monday, that is a school day for me. Oh and if this means Nevermore might be able to join Opeth on a future date in LA, I AM ALL FOR IT!

[Flynn]

Mike hasn't stated if it has a story or not, but I really like that story, so I think I'll keep thinking thats what its about. :)


Dude, I thought you hated Ghost Reveries? :confused:

[Darkness]

Dude, I thought you hated Ghost Reveries? :confused:
I don't hate it dude, I never said I did. Its simply the weakest Opeth album, it has a few good moments in it (I've always said that) but my favorite aspect of the album is the concept.

[Cain]

Ok, why the hell is everybody bitching about Ghost Reveries? It's WAY better than Deliverance, and compositional it's extremely tight. Its only flaw that I can see is Lopez' drumming, which is way too jazzy and rock-based, heavy on the ride instead of the crash and the snare instead of the bass drum. But Mikael's vocals are in fine form and the guitars (especially the light acoustic parts) are great. I really don't understand why this is such a big disappointment for you guys.

[heavy metal kid]

Ok, why the hell is everybody bitching about Ghost Reveries? It's WAY better than Deliverance . I really don't understand why this is such a big disappointment for you guys.

isn't as bad as deliverance, but isn't also as good as Morningrise, Blackwater Park, Damnation or MAYH.

imo the album isn't bad, but Opeth can do better things.

[Cain]

isn't as bad as deliverance, but isn't also as good as Morningrise, Blackwater Park, Damnation or MAYH.

Well, come on, you guys, what more do you want? Opeth have released eight albums and they're still ****ing great. I mean give me a break already. Opeth deserve every bit of acclaim and success that they get. I seem to remember that Flynn was freaked out about the Roadrunner record deal, to the point of irritation, when everybody knew that Opeth wasn't gonna go all St. Anger on us. And for some reason Flynn now thinks that Ghost Reveries isn't any good. Well, I may be tired and cranky right now, but that's bullshit. Opeth are possibly the only band to get a major deal and score a 60 spot on the Billboard 200 on release all on the strength of their integrity, quality, and talent, instead of crappy watered-down singles. And they deserve it. You'll never see me whining about some extreme band getting a major deal and editing long songs for singles. The point of making music is to reach as wide an audience as possible. Opeth have done it in an admirable way.

I can't possibly see how Ghost Reveries is Opeth's weakest album, especially when compared to something as shoddily put-together as Deliverance. Come on. Give Opeth a break. They're still amazing. To some fans, no album they've made since Morningrise approaches its quality. But to many modern fans, Blackwater Park and Still Life are the penultimate achievements. Some fans just can't evolve with the times the way Opeth, to their credit, try to do on every album.

[heavy metal kid]

i know the album isn't bad.
I don't care of the evolution of the band or the experimental they get, if an album is good, is good.
My second favorite album of Opeth is Dam(n)ation, as you can hear, this isn't the normal Opeth you get on past albums, but the album is still great.

About the bad comments:
This is a normal judgement that the people have with their favorite bands when they do something diferent.

[bucket]

Ok, why the hell is everybody bitching about Ghost Reveries? It's WAY better than Deliverance, and compositional it's extremely tight. Its only flaw that I can see is Lopez' drumming, which is way too jazzy and rock-based, heavy on the ride instead of the crash and the snare instead of the bass drum. But Mikael's vocals are in fine form and the guitars (especially the light acoustic parts) are great. I really don't understand why this is such a big disappointment for you guys.

Everyone has a different take on Opeth. We've listed our favorite albums hundreds of times in here and every album is number one on at least someone's list. Don't get cooked up over this.

Don't you remember me setting the record for mxtabs worst review ever when I did Deliverance? I gave that baby a 5 out of 5! Even though the band was put through hell, it appealed to me. Ghost Reveries was made how an album is suppose to be made, but to me it's biggest issue is the flow.

Cain, that's right, more complaining.

The first three tracks are awesome... then Atonement kicks in. Now I know some of you love that song, but it feels out of place to me. Another awesome track passes by with RHF, and another smooth mellow song. I'm put off again. And I know Opeth always has tracks that throw a huge change of pace, but in GR, the flow should not be disturbed. Also, my least favorite Opeth track is TGC. :( I cannot get over that first riff even though there are some very great parts in there. Lastly, Isolation Years doesn't even end properly. It goes for a few minutes, then fades away from the same part as the intro. :-\

I love GR for the tracks it brings with 1,2,3 and 5, but beyond that, I can't listen to it as an album. Call my reasons stupid or idiotic, but it's not a big deal. So what if some of us don't like it as much as we "should"? Even with an album I don't love, I still respect Opeth for every album.


PS- Post more.

[Kage]

Well, come on, you guys, what more do you want? Opeth have released eight albums and they're still ****ing great. I mean give me a break already. Opeth deserve every bit of acclaim and success that they get. I seem to remember that Flynn was freaked out about the Roadrunner record deal, to the point of irritation, when everybody knew that Opeth wasn't gonna go all St. Anger on us. And for some reason Flynn now thinks that Ghost Reveries isn't any good. Well, I may be tired and cranky right now, but that's bullshit. Opeth are possibly the only band to get a major deal and score a 60 spot on the Billboard 200 on release all on the strength of their integrity, quality, and talent, instead of crappy watered-down singles. And they deserve it. You'll never see me whining about some extreme band getting a major deal and editing long songs for singles. The point of making music is to reach as wide an audience as possible. Opeth have done it in an admirable way.

I can't possibly see how Ghost Reveries is Opeth's weakest album, especially when compared to something as shoddily put-together as Deliverance. Come on. Give Opeth a break. They're still amazing. To some fans, no album they've made since Morningrise approaches its quality. But to many modern fans, Blackwater Park and Still Life are the penultimate achievements. Some fans just can't evolve with the times the way Opeth, to their credit, try to do on every album.
/stands up and claps

[Mr. Ron]

They are still playin in NY....:).
I'm seeing them on November 2nd at Saratoga winners.

Where do you live?

[Flynn]

The first three tracks are awesome... then Atonement kicks in. Now I know some of you love that song, but it feels out of place to me. Another awesome track passes by with RHF, and another smooth mellow song. I'm put off again. And I know Opeth always has tracks that throw a huge change of pace, but in GR, the flow should not be disturbed. Also, my least favorite Opeth track is TGC. :( I cannot get over that first riff even though there are some very great parts in there. Lastly, Isolation Years doesn't even end properly. It goes for a few minutes, then fades away from the same part as the intro. :-\


Yeah, it almost seems as if the record was ''rushed'' or something. Maybe there was a lot of pressure on them since they got signed to Roadrunner. Who knows. :confused: I just can't wait to hear what their new album will sound like.

[bucket]

Yeah, it almost seems as if the record was ''rushed'' or something. Maybe there was a lot of pressure on them since they got signed to Roadrunner. Who knows. :confused: I just can't wait to hear what their new album will sound like.

I'd hardly say rushed. They had the entire album written before they recorded and even had rehersal time. Our musical likes don't change the same as the band's does so we don't get as much out of it. That's my explanation.

[Flynn]

Our musical likes don't change the same as the band's does so we don't get as much out of it. That's my explanation.


Yeah, I agree with that. Ghost Reveries is a decent album...maybe It'll take some time for me to realize it.

[Cain]

Ugh, the fact that they're on Roadrunner has nothing to do with the fact that the album sounds "rushed" to you. First of all, a label like that understands the market that a band like Opeth will appeal to, and they'd be insane to apply pressure on the group to change their basic sound to a more streamlined or "simple" direction. It's clear by Opeth's extremely high entry onto the American charts that Roadrunner has made a good investment, and their instincts were on the money in not becoming enmeshed in sound-tampering.

Quit hating on Roadrunner. They're giving an amazing band a much wider audience and deserve props for not messing with Opeth's sound. Everybody that liked Opeth because nu-metal sucked (like Flynn) should be grateful that a major label is allowing a band like them to taste a major-scale American-based success. Surely it would be in all our best interests to have our musical tastes advanced by having music like Opeth be more popular instead of music by Limp Bizkit?

Ugh, I guess I just don't get it. I love Ghost Reveries.

[Darkness]

But nothing on the album really stands out and rips my face off like almost everything they've done in the past. Theres no good heavy riffs on this album, the guitar work (with the exception of a few acoustics) is really mediocre for Opeth IMO. The keyboards are alright, but lack most of the time or are out of place or overdone. The drumming is ok, but nothing compared to Damnation or even Deliverance. The bass playing is pretty good though. I find most of the songs lack a good atmosphere and a good climax unlike previous releases. The songs don't give me goose bumps like they use to either (I don't think they'll ever be able to top "the sun sets forever on Blackwater Park" for goose bump giving). I give the album a 6/10 for a album, but for Opeth this is an all time low.

[Hells Bells]

I can't possibly see how Ghost Reveries is Opeth's weakest album, especially when compared to something as shoddily put-together as Deliverance. Come on. Give Opeth a break. They're still amazing. To some fans, no album they've made since Morningrise approaches its quality. But to many modern fans, Blackwater Park and Still Life are the penultimate achievements. Some fans just can't evolve with the times the way Opeth, to their credit, try to do on every album.

Yay someone else who likes GR! :thumb:
Some fans like the style on a certain album and find it hard to accept that the sound has evolved. Ghost Reveries isn't a bad album - it's actually becoming one of my favourite Opeth albums :D - it's just taken a completely different direction compared to their earlier work.

[Jude]

(I don't think they'll ever be able to top "the sun sets forever on Blackwater Park" for goose bump giving). I give the album a 6/10 for a album, but for Opeth this is an all time low

I agree about the goosebump giving and the end of BWP. The only real goosebump moments on GR are in Grand Conjuration and Isolation Years for me. Whereas Still Life was packed full of them. But, I like GR a lot more than Deliverance.

[Flynn]

I agree about the goosebump giving and the end of BWP. The only real goosebump moments on GR are in Grand Conjuration and Isolation Years for me. Whereas Still Life was packed full of them. But, I like GR a lot more than Deliverance.


I like Deliverance better, and I never really listened to it that much until the release of Ghost Reveries. I like the ending of Deliverance, when Mikael recorded parts of The Master's Apprentices vocals backwards on the tail end of the album. :thumb: Good stuff.

[GOT the GUDS 112]

I'm seeing them on November 2nd at Saratoga winners.

Where do you live?
As am I, I'm so pumped that first of all that Opeth is coming to my town (Winners is not really in Latham), secndly, theyre bringing Nevermore with them, and it's my friggin birthday. Talk about a perfect day... expect to see me there with my 'Look Your Last Upon the Sun' shirt.

[Darkness]

I like Deliverance better, and I never really listened to it that much until the release of Ghost Reveries. I like the ending of Deliverance, when Mikael recorded parts of The Master's Apprentices vocals backwards on the tail end of the album. :thumb: Good stuff.
I find Deliverance is really underappreciated. Yes, it did lack some progression in parts... but man, that album is so solid. Not a bad track IMO, and the sheer darkness and brutality of it is wicked.

[Flynn]

I find Deliverance is really underappreciated. Yes, it did lack some progression in parts... but man, that album is so solid. Not a bad track IMO, and the sheer darkness and brutality of it is wicked.


Wicked indeed :thumb: Did you try listening to that backwards segment on ''By The Pain I See In Others'' yet? When you do, it will give you gooseflesh :D It did to me.

[Darkness]

Yeah, I did that a while ago when I was trying to find out what he said. Great cd.

[Flynn]

Yeah, I did that a while ago when I was trying to find out what he said. Great cd.


Yeah it is. We're working on Wreath just to mess around. We usually don't cover anything, but we like to throw in a few covers now and then when we go to bars locally.

[Six Foot Revolver]

I find Deliverance is really underappreciated. Yes, it did lack some progression in parts... but man, that album is so solid. Not a bad track IMO, and the sheer darkness and brutality of it is wicked.
I think that all of their albums are solid though, well out of the ones I've heard. In fact I can't think of an Opeth song I have heard and dislike :thumb:.

[Deth]

I like every Opeth songs recorded. Obviously I like some more than others, but I can't say that about any other band with that amount of albums.

[ElectricalStorm]

Yay someone else who likes GR! :thumb:
Some fans like the style on a certain album and find it hard to accept that the sound has evolved. Ghost Reveries isn't a bad album - it's actually becoming one of my favourite Opeth albums :D - it's just taken a completely different direction compared to their earlier work.

Heh I love GR too. Made a semi-long post for the benefit of GR about 2-3 weeks ago and got practicly no direct replys--where were you GR lovers then. Hopefully these forums will still exist in 2008, which is probably when I'll have enough posts (judging by my current rate) to convince people to actually bother reading my posts.

Oh and Ghost Reveries is a concept album but the song Isolations Years is not part of the album's theme. The first seven songs contain the story. This is just clarifying the brief description of the album earlier found a couple pages back--its not directed at anyone in particular.

[Darkness]

Yeah I knew that, but it seems Isolation Years could fit into the story..

[Jude]

Heh I love GR too. Made a semi-long post for the benefit of GR about 2-3 weeks ago and got practicly no direct replys--where were you GR lovers then. Hopefully these forums will still exist in 2008, which is probably when I'll have enough posts (judging by my current rate) to convince people to actually bother reading my posts.

Oh and Ghost Reveries is a concept album but the song Isolations Years is not part of the album's theme. The first seven songs contain the story. This is just clarifying the brief description of the album earlier found a couple pages back--its not directed at anyone in particular.
The only posters whose opinion of you really matters are intelligent enough to know that postcount/joindate =/= how good a poster you are. There's lots of noobs that are much better posters than people that have been around forever.

GR isn't really a concept album, anyway. Mike said, IIRC, he thought at first it was going to be and wrote Ghost of Perdition and Baying of the Hounds, but then he wrote Isolation Years and got into writing stuff that didn't fit in. That's why some of the tracks seem to fit together. My guess would be that GoP, BotH, TGC and maybe one or two more fit in with the concept, but it's not a full fledged concept album.

[ElectricalStorm]

I realize that but that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that I take to the time to make a focused post about opeth and it often gets ignored in the midst of a thread that's sole purpose is to discuss the band that I'm writing about. I don't really care of what people think of me so long as my input is still considered.

My post about Ghost Reveries is evidence of that. I left no room for error by putting out my opinion as directly as I could manage. Morever this "opinion" was one that was held by very few and was stated in a way so as to challenge the alternate opinions and thereby encourage discussion. As a result, people could have certainly agreed with me, but more importantly they could have also done the very opposite--they could have picked me apart with a strong detailed rebuttal as to why they see GR in a different light. Believe or not I would have just as happy if not happier with the second scenario. But neither of these things happened, my post was just acknowledged by a couple ppl (and I appreciate those posters) and (seemingly) completely ignored by everyone else.

Opeth are a multifaceted and progressive band. Everyones interpretation of their music holds truth and is part of the greater picture. By presenting and debating these said personal interpretations we should be able to get a better understanding of the greater picture--and therein lies the beauty of both Opeth as a band and this forum as a medium for discussion. Does anyone actually feel that their feelings of the band are the only "right/correct" feelings concerning opeth's music? I hope not.

[Darkness]

I read your old post, but since I stated my opinion many times, I didn't feel like saying it again then discussing it with you. It had nothing to do with your post count.

[ElectricalStorm]

you're right mentioned right here dude :thumb:

"my post was just acknowledged by a couple ppl (and I appreciate those posters)"

And the post count thing was partly tongue in cheek and not my main point. I've seen other posters with higher post counts in this and different areas dealt the same way. It's still personally frustrating though.

[Darkness]

Yeah it is. We're working on Wreath just to mess around. We usually don't cover anything, but we like to throw in a few covers now and then when we go to bars locally.
Wreath is a friggin sick song... I don't care if that riff repeats to much, its so sweet. And at the end when it kicks back in, and he does that little scream... perfection. :thumb: Oh and the second solo is awesome.

[Cain]

I realize that but that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that I take to the time to make a focused post about opeth and it often gets ignored in the midst of a thread that's sole purpose is to discuss the band that I'm writing about. I don't really care of what people think of me so long as my input is still considered.

My post about Ghost Reveries is evidence of that. I left no room for error by putting out my opinion as directly as I could manage. Morever this "opinion" was one that was held by very few and was stated in a way so as to challenge the alternate opinions and thereby encourage discussion. As a result, people could have certainly agreed with me, but more importantly they could have also done the very opposite--they could have picked me apart with a strong detailed rebuttal as to why they see GR in a different light. Believe or not I would have just as happy if not happier with the second scenario. But neither of these things happened, my post was just acknowledged by a couple ppl (and I appreciate those posters) and (seemingly) completely ignored by everyone else.

Opeth are a multifaceted and progressive band. Everyones interpretation of their music holds truth and is part of the greater picture. By presenting and debating these said personal interpretations we should be able to get a better understanding of the greater picture--and therein lies the beauty of both Opeth as a band and this forum as a medium for discussion. Does anyone actually feel that their feelings of the band are the only "right/correct" feelings concerning opeth's music? I hope not.

The reason I almost never post in this thread is because the discussion is incredibly cyclical and boring. It consists of users consistently repeating literally hundreds of times what their favorite Opeth songs are, and then that monotony is broken by new users asking for recommendations, which is followed by hundreds of "Get BWP, or maybe Still Life or Morningrise, or wait **** it every album by Opeth is amazing so good luck :thumb:."

:rolleyes:

I like how I've attempted to discuss Flynn's point of view with him and he has completely ignored my posts, only responding to those who agree with him. I don't think he's a bad poster, but I think the level of fanboyism in this thread is higher than in any other official thread and so the discussion is more stagnant than a bloody swamp.

It's really unbecoming to ignore attempts at detailed discussion. Even if you're too lazy to come up with rebuttal, at least acknowledge it instead of ignoring it. I hate coming into this thread and trying to come up with contrary arguments to spark discussion, because everybody is invariably like:

"Oh...what? You don't think this is good? Well I do, opinions are opinions, deal with it, Opeth are amazing. :D

Back to how much 'The Drapery Falls' rules for the millionth time..."

[Darkness]

I actually really agree with that post, there is a bit to much fanboyism in this thread..

[Jude]

You're right. We need more topics for discussion in this thread.

How is it that Metallica threads can go on for 5 times as many posts as this one? What do they TALK about?

[lost_profits]

Does anyone else think 'Harlequin forest' meanders around to a point where it just sounds directionless?

[lost_profits]

haha, the irony of my last post.
The need for more creative conversation and I reply with that.

[-The Frank]

haha, the irony of my last post.
The need for more creative conversation and I reply with that.

isnt your user name a unsigned band?. i saw the lost profits at their free madison show the other week. good stuff

[Deth]

You're right. We need more topics for discussion in this thread.

How is it that Metallica threads can go on for 5 times as many posts as this one? What do they TALK about?
It's the first place all the n00bs go, and that accounts for a large majority of the posts there.

[Epicurus]

First opeth song I heard was The Moor. I've been hooked ever since.

[the2stranger]

alright, intelligent discussion in the making :rolleyes:

Per adds no backing vocals o nthe new album, but he does so live, and I think he has a great voice.

anyone dislike the fact that Per didn't add anything vocal wise?
and what do you thiink of Per's voice, and any thoughts from Mikeal why he coose to not add Per?

[epihasi]

I think Per has an amazing voice, on my dvd, when they sing "Harvest"..I was like " Oh my god, that blows away anything I could ever write" it sounds so much better live than the studio version IMO...

[bball_1523]

Does anyone else think 'Harlequin forest' meanders around to a point where it just sounds directionless?

I like the 1st half, but then it turns into a bunch of breakdown riffs that thankfully aren't like metalcore breakdowns, but gets kinda bland imo. I don't know what Opeth were going for there.

So is anyone going to the LA show on Oct. 16th? I might actually skip out on this one because I have a really important group project for school the next day and we were planning on meeting sunday evening. It sucks, but if Opeth comes around again next year, I'm ok with it. And if I skip out, I'm looking to sell my ticket for $15 if ticketmaster doesn't refund my ticket.

[Darkness]

I think Per has an amazing voice, on my dvd, when they sing "Harvest"..I was like " Oh my god, that blows away anything I could ever write" it sounds so much better live than the studio version IMO...
Definatly. Pers a nice addition to the band indeed, but sometimes the keyboards are a bit over done... I wish he'd just take the backseat during some parts on Ghost Reveries. And yeah, he should have done some backing vocals to... Silly Mike trying to take the spotlight..

[relliK]

The reason I almost never post in this thread is because the discussion is incredibly cyclical and boring. It consists of users consistently repeating literally hundreds of times what their favorite Opeth songs are, and then that monotony is broken by new users asking for recommendations, which is followed by hundreds of "Get BWP, or maybe Still Life or Morningrise, or wait **** it every album by Opeth is amazing so good luck :thumb:."

:rolleyes:

I like how I've attempted to discuss Flynn's point of view with him and he has completely ignored my posts, only responding to those who agree with him. I don't think he's a bad poster, but I think the level of fanboyism in this thread is higher than in any other official thread and so the discussion is more stagnant than a bloody swamp.

It's really unbecoming to ignore attempts at detailed discussion. Even if you're too lazy to come up with rebuttal, at least acknowledge it instead of ignoring it. I hate coming into this thread and trying to come up with contrary arguments to spark discussion, because everybody is invariably like:

"Oh...what? You don't think this is good? Well I do, opinions are opinions, deal with it, Opeth are amazing. :D

Back to how much 'The Drapery Falls' rules for the millionth time..."

Right on the mark with that.

[DaveTheAmazing]

Hello. I don't mean to interrupt anything that is going on in here or nothing, but I like Opeth and I want to buy one of their albums. Which album is best. :)

[Mr. Ron]

Hello. I don't mean to interrupt anything that is going on in here or nothing, but I like Opeth and I want to buy one of their albums. Which album is best. :)
Well I'm biased to their older stuff....but if you are starting out I would get Blackwater Park, then their older stuff. I wouldn't really recommend Ghost Reveries....but hey, I guess you could give it a whirl.

[DaveTheAmazing]

Blackwater Park it is. Opeth may just become my next obsession from what I've heard.

[Mr. Ron]

Blackwater Park it is. Opeth may just become my next obsession from what I've heard.
Welcome to the club. Have you ever listened to them before?

[Darkness]

Notice how the intro to The Ghost of Peridition is similar to Whens intro... but not as good... Both are good though..

[the2stranger]

Ghost of Perdition is my favorite song of GR,
but I don't really like GR at all actually :(

[bucket]

Hello. I don't mean to interrupt anything that is going on in here or nothing, but I like Opeth and I want to buy one of their albums. Which album is best. :)

...

Get BWP, or maybe Still Life or Morningrise, or wait **** it every album by Opeth is amazing so good luck :thumb:."

I don't think anyone could have said it better.




:upset:

I had to.

[Lydisk]

moonlapse vertigo is my favourite metal song since ever.

[Darkness]

moonlapse vertigo is my favourite metal song since ever.
My least favorite from Still Life... still decent.

[Killtacular]

Serenity Painted Death is where it's at.

[One Step Beyond]

White Cluster \m/

[Flynn]

Serenity Painted Death is where it's at.


I can't get enough of that song. I love every second :evil:

[Darkness]

Face Of Melinda and The Moor are my favorites from that album... :p

[Deth]

Godhead's Lament and SPD remain my favorite off that album.

I just love the pinch harmonic in the SPD riff.

[Darkness]

Yeah thats a sweet riff.

[bball_1523]

I like Face Of Melinda and Serenity Painted Death are my fav still life songs. I love the solo and the riffs right after the solo on SPD..the riffs are so depressing to me.

[UpperDecker]

I would say Ghost of Perdition is the best song on Ghost Reveries. Every part of it is good while some parts of other songs drag a little, just a little. Its still all better than anything thats played on the radio.

[Flynn]

I like Face Of Melinda and Serenity Painted Death are my fav still life songs. I love the solo and the riffs right after the solo on SPD..the riffs are so depressing to me.


Yeah they are, yet uplifting at the same time. Still Life, as a whole, is unique.

[Grey Incision]

I haven't posted in here for a while, much because of the same reason as Cain. Since i haven't posted in here for a while, i would like to know everyone's Ghost Reveries opinion. Personally, i found it VERY weak. Mike's Vocals, whilst everyone is praising them, i find them to be one of his worst vocal performances from a BAND perspective. In earlier records, his vocals were sung with a very background feel, sounding like he was some kind of haunting spectre. I mean, who can forget the clean vocals from April ethereal or The moor? He had seperated himself from the audience, rather than the new cd, which sounds more personal, vocally wise. (remember all my opinion, arguments welcome:)) Brecht enhanced theater by seperating his actors from the audience, taking the personal quality from the audience. Mike HAD mastered that i feel, but the new record doesn't show it.

His writing has also gone to sh!t. This new album feels like he has just thrown in acoustic passages or a heavy section just for the hell of it, there is really no need for many parts of ghost reveries. Atonement is probably my favourite track on GR, only because it was something fresh and it did flow, mostly. Speaking of his writing ability, his originality is dead, I have seen some people talk about how certain sections from GR sound similar to something from Blackwater park or My arms your hears etc. He seems to be using very similar chord patterns, focusing around the minor bar chords once again, i think. His triads and solo scales are also very repetitive.

I just cannot stand GR aside from Atonement.

[Deth]

I seem to be one of the few people here who find it fantastic. TGC is probably the weakest track for me, and that's because there's no contrast. I really like the album, and find the criticism, especially for the riffs, unfounded.

My favorite Opeth album is Still Life, and really, I think there are less memorable riffs on that then GR.

But everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose.

[bball_1523]

I seem to be one of the few people here who find it fantastic. TGC is probably the weakest track for me, and that's because there's no contrast. I really like the album, and find the criticism, especially for the riffs, unfounded.

My favorite Opeth album is Still Life, and really, I think there are less memorable riffs on that then GR.

But everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose.

I agree TGC is their weakest track, but everything else is top notch opeth imo. I dig the first two songs as my favorites.

[The Flabbit Rides High]

I seem to be one of the few people here who find it fantastic. TGC is probably the weakest track for me, and that's because there's no contrast. I really like the album, and find the criticism, especially for the riffs, unfounded.

My favorite Opeth album is Still Life, and really, I think there are less memorable riffs on that then GR.

But everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose.

I agree totally.

'Cept, MAYH would fall into my number one slot. :p

I respect Greys opinion, but I dont agree with some of it.

there is really no need for many parts of ghost reveries.

His triads and solo scales are also very repetitive.


I really don't understand this. Take a listen to the main 3 songs on Deliverance and tell me there isn't repetitivness. Wreath, Masters Aprentisses and Deliverance. But its just not that album! Theres more! Blackwater Park had some too....lets not forget the aggonising long end part of the self-titled song.

The truth is Opeth had some really long streches of repetitivness in some albums, and no fan ever pointed it out! Now that they are ditching some of those long streches, everyones jumping ship. I think this is where some of Opeth's true skill come into play, coming up with new and fresh ideas of keeping the interest of the listener, and keeping the song unique.

Anyway, just my opinion. :)

[Cain]

One thing that I have noticed is that ever since Still Life, whenever Mikael plays a chord-based rhythm, it tends to use the EXACT SAME rhythm. Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh! Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh!

I can see the critiques about heavy/acoustic relationships on this album. I see the keyboards replacing the guitar leads that added so much mood to previous efforts, and since the keyboards haven't become an integral part of Opeth's sound yet the focus is on the admittedly weak rhythm writing (which was always there to an extent, but there were sufficient embellishments to overlook it, in a sense).

I have confidence that the excellence of writing will resume when Opeth returns to focusing on creating moods and feelings rather than an idea of what their sound should be.

Mikael has been notoriously impatient with styles when he feels that they can be taken as far as they can go (as with Morningrise) but on the last few albums I feel like he's been promising drastic change and we haven't gotten it, really. The result is still very high quality but it doesn't mean that he's lived up to the promise. Remember when Deliverance was supposed to be their heaviest album ever and ****ation was going to be a full exploration of their acoustic side? Remember when Ghost Reveries was supposed to be a black metal album? To be honest, before everyone starts dishing out blows to Roadrunner again, I think a lot of that has to do with fan pressure: there are huge numbers of fans that want everything to stay more or less the way it was on Still Life and Blackwater Park in terms of overall structure. The Catch-22 is, in responding to that desire, Opeth's music sounds re-hashed, which ends up leaving even the fans who REQUESTED that sound's constance displeased with the end result.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that Lopez's drumming style is almost entirely inappropriate to a metal setting at this point. It's a virtuosic drum style in the context of rock and heavy jazz, but for metal music the heavy focus on the ride cymbal--not to mention the general sixteenth feel of his beats, leaving no room for any groove or "hot space"--just KILLS the headbanging potential of some of Ghost Reveries' riffs.

Mikael needs to muster up some guts and truly live up to his promise of change. Unfortunately, the change should have occured on "Deliverance" and "****ation." It'll be harder to do an about-face now that they're on a major label. On the other hand, it's by no means impossible. Major labels have been known to give bands that play to a selective and hardcore fanbases (such as Dream Theater) total creative freedom and the option to take their music in any direction they choose, so I would say that the best thing to do is for nobody to fret and have some faith in the band's integrity.

When the keyboards get stronger and more integrated, Mikael focuses on creating an evocative mood, and the relationship of the rhythm section to the guitars becomes more solidified (and the wimpy rock drum style is ditched), we'll have another BWP. I might also reiterate that tons of people thought Mikael's writing went to **** on MAYH, at the time. Fans are just fickle.

[bucket]

One thing that I have noticed is that ever since Still Life, whenever Mikael plays a chord-based rhythm, it tends to use the EXACT SAME rhythm. Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh! Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh!

The 3/4 time half note, then 4 16th notes go back beyond that. I'm thinking of When, Demon of the Fall, and Forest of October use that in at least one instance, and I'm sure those aren't the only songs. I guess it's more noticable (although it only sticks out to me since I learn some of these parts) in the later chunk of albums since they put more of those sections in.

Learning The Drappery Falls intro mutated most of my rhythms to the same thing :(. It took me a while to get over even though I still do use it since it's quite simple.

[UpperDecker]

So are you guys saying that most of their songs have the same rythm?

[bucket]

So are you guys saying that most of their songs have the same rythm?

Cetain parts do.

Drapery falls intro, Demon of the Fall intro, When riff right before the solo, TNATSW Emin-Esus2 riff (if I recall correctly). I could probably put more down if I went through every song.

I wouldn't say most, but that rhythm is Opeth's friend.

[UpperDecker]

Ok i see what you're saying. I still think they all are pretty unique (with each song having so many different riffs and stuff). When i first bought Blackwater Park i thought that Harvest sounded like The Drapery Falls, the intro that is. I think they should have put another song between these two tracks.

[Dummer'n'Drummer]

Anyone going to see Opeth live in Montreal with Nevermore?

I'm going!!! Can't wait!! It's gonna be sick!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Darkness]

I agree with pretty much everything Cain has said, except I do like some of the vocal work on the album, and I do like D&D.

[Det_Nosnip]

Also, I've come to the conclusion that Lopez's drumming style is almost entirely inappropriate to a metal setting at this point. It's a virtuosic drum style in the context of rock and heavy jazz, but for metal music the heavy focus on the ride cymbal--not to mention the general sixteenth feel of his beats, leaving no room for any groove or "hot space"--just KILLS the headbanging potential of some of Ghost Reveries' riffs.


Such as? I'm failing to remember any instances where I felt that way at all. I personally think Lopez's style fits the band perfectly and miss him sorely. Although I will agree that he shines during the lighter moments - his best playing by far was on the Dam nation record - I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. Quite simply, the Dam nation record would not be what it was without Lopez on it, and I value the album just as much as the others, although Still Life is my personal favorite.

[Darkness]

He did say that his style fits rock and jazzy type stuff. I don't think his metal style drumming is bad on Deliverance though.

[Drone]

I really like Lopez's drumming on GR...but that's just me.

[Deth]

One thing that I have noticed is that ever since Still Life, whenever Mikael plays a chord-based rhythm, it tends to use the EXACT SAME rhythm. Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh! Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh!
I don't see this at all, but whatever.

I can see the critiques about heavy/acoustic relationships on this album. I see the keyboards replacing the guitar leads that added so much mood to previous efforts, and since the keyboards haven't become an integral part of Opeth's sound yet the focus is on the admittedly weak rhythm writing (which was always there to an extent, but there were sufficient embellishments to overlook it, in a sense).
I don't think the keyboards took the place of lead guitar, they just act to enhance the mood.

I have confidence that the excellence of writing will resume when Opeth returns to focusing on creating moods and feelings rather than an idea of what their sound should be.
Well, considering how often they change their sound, I think it'll be hard to truly master one style.

Mikael has been notoriously impatient with styles when he feels that they can be taken as far as they can go (as with Morningrise) but on the last few albums I feel like he's been promising drastic change and we haven't gotten it, really. The result is still very high quality but it doesn't mean that he's lived up to the promise.
This I agree completely with.

Catch-22
Reading this book. Kicks ***.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that Lopez's drumming style is almost entirely inappropriate to a metal setting at this point. It's a virtuosic drum style in the context of rock and heavy jazz, but for metal music the heavy focus on the ride cymbal--not to mention the general sixteenth feel of his beats, leaving no room for any groove or "hot space"--just KILLS the headbanging potential of some of Ghost Reveries' riffs.
I disagree with this as well. I really love the drums on TGC and GOP. It's a unique style, but I think it fits perfectly.

Who said we are all fanboys who love eveything they do :) .

That was a great post though, even though I disagree with 90% of it :lol: .

[Darkness]

I like his drumming on the softer parts of the cd, (like the first soft verses to TGC, they really add to the atmosphere) but the heavy parts lacked double bass..

[bball_1523]

Such as? I'm failing to remember any instances where I felt that way at all. I personally think Lopez's style fits the band perfectly and miss him sorely. Although I will agree that he shines during the lighter moments - his best playing by far was on the Dam nation record - I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. Quite simply, the Dam nation record would not be what it was without Lopez on it, and I value the album just as much as the others, although Still Life is my personal favorite.

One reason why I think Opeth is Opeth is because they are not of the "norm" of metal. It's hard to classify them musically, but they are definitely under the genre of metal. It doesn't mean they have to conform to all the stereotypes that make up metal such as its catches, hooks, and whatever else makes up metal. That's what I love about Opeth. THEY ARE DIFFERENT!

With that being said, I love Martin Lopez's drumming. I don't care if it's metal or not, he makes up a huge portion of "OPETH." He is definitely a great part of opeth and makes Opeth the diverse band they are. It would suck if there was a drummer drumming 300 bpm with blast beats in opeth's songs, it would ruin the feel of the songs IMO.

Also with Opeth being different, I love Ghost Reveries compositions. Sure I wish there were more heavier songs rather than ****ation type songs such as Atonement, but the album IMO is solid and proves Opeth's diversity and non-corformity to the metal genre. This proves to me that Opeth is still being Opeth. Thank you Opeth!

[Deth]

One reason why I think Opeth is Opeth is because they are not of the "norm" of metal. It's hard to classify them musically, but they are definitely under the genre of metal. It doesn't mean they have to conform to all the stereotypes that make up metal such as its catches, hooks, and whatever else makes up metal. That's what I love about Opeth. THEY ARE DIFFERENT!

With that being said, I love Martin Lopez's drumming. I don't care if it's metal or not, he makes up a huge portion of "OPETH." He is definitely a great part of opeth and makes Opeth the diverse band they are. It would suck if there was a drummer drumming 300 bpm with blast beats in opeth's songs, it would ruin the feel of the songs IMO.

Also with Opeth being different, I love Ghost Reveries compositions. Sure I wish there were more heavier songs rather than ****ation type songs such as Atonement, but the album IMO is solid and proves Opeth's diversity and non-corformity to the metal genre. This proves to me that Opeth is still being Opeth. Thank you Opeth!
Good stuff. We seem to agree completely on these matters.

[Darkness]

Good stuff. We seem to agree completely on these matters.
Unlike me and you eh Deth... the only thing we've agreed on is that riff with the pinch harmonic on Serenity Painted Death is awesome... :lol: :p

[withering_rose]

mmmm.... Opeth.... mmm... *drools*

I don't like sub-genre's of metal (black, death, extreme, etc.) that much, but I do enjoy melodic metal. but Opeth is by FAR my FAVORITE metal band of any kind. this kid in an intensive out-patient group (fancy name for group therapy) turned me on to them, and I thank him for it. IMO Opeth>all other metal band of any genre

EDIT: my favorite song is "Black Rose Immortal"

[ElectricalStorm]

Remember when Deliverance was supposed to be their heaviest album ever and ****ation was going to be a full exploration of their acoustic side? Remember when Ghost Reveries was supposed to be a black metal album?

I think that your expectations were a little too high and are distorting how you view these albums. I personally don't remember too much hype about either deliverence or ****ation. As I understood it then is how I understand it now--D&D were a detour in the Opeth discography. These albums didn't progress sonically, they instead focused on refining/fleshing out("exploring") an already existing sound--the one that we heard on Blackwater Park. Furthermore both albums were written and recorded shortly after Blackwater Park, so how much could we truthfully expect--regardless of hype.

I also recall Mike stating in an interview shortly after the release or during the recording of D&D, that writing songs was no longer a gargantuan task for him--musical ideas began to become easier to express. So its very possible that D&D may have actually been (rather than a detour) a neccessary stepping stone. Although the sound certainly didn't change much, Mikael still may have progressed as a musician.

Onto Opeth's latest effort,Ghost Reveries ;) The album as I see it certainly marks a new era for Opeth and is in sharp constrast with D&D--two rather stagnant albums--in terms of progression of course. Ghost Reveries is most definitely rooted in Opeth's established sound, but it also takes that step forward. Its NOT "Blackwater Park: Just in case you missed it".

The further integration of keys, a stronger vocal emphasis, and heck even Martin Lopez's drumming on GR (as well as many other things) are largely uncharted territory for opeth and each provide avenues for progression. I think you were expecting something radical with this album and Opeth instead gave you something natural--a gradual progression from BWP.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that Lopez's drumming style is almost entirely inappropriate to a metal setting at this point. It's a virtuosic drum style in the context of rock and heavy jazz, but for metal music the heavy focus on the ride cymbal--not to mention the general sixteenth feel of his beats, leaving no room for any groove or "hot space"--just KILLS the headbanging potential of some of Ghost Reveries' riffs.

I personally felt that Lopez's drumming on GR, coupled with his performance on ****ation solidify his position in Opeth. I love his style, and that's a subjective feeling for sure (and that's where I'm coming from a subjective opinion), but I can't fathom a better fit for Opeth right now.

And I have a feeling you had those thoughts in ya for a while :lol: Thanks for putting them out there :thumb:

[Darkness]

Good post. (just letting you know I read it... :p)

[ElectricalStorm]

haha, I guess bitching works :lol: I don't want charity though, that's demeaning :p

[Darkness]

I actually kind of agree with most of that post this time around... unlike last time. I still don't care that much for Ghost Reveries though, (THOUGH I DO LIKE SOME PARTS!! :evil: )

[UpperDecker]

I've been really into Ghost Reveries. I think it has a pretty distinctive sound to it. I wish they would have made a video for Ghost Reveries or Reverie/Harlequin Forest instead of The Grand Conjuration.

[Jude]

I've been really into Ghost Reveries. I think it has a pretty distinctive sound to it. I wish they would have made a video for Ghost Reveries or Reverie/Harlequin Forest instead of The Grand Conjuration.
I don't think Opeth and videos really mix. A well-done video of an Opeth song COULD be good, but I think the mental pictures and atmospheres their music creates would be much better than any video. Each album takes me into a sort of sub-universe of its own, and having a video would mess that up.

A video for the last couple Still Life songs would be sweet though.

[UpperDecker]

Master's Apprentice has one of the coolest riffs i've ever heard. The one that starts off the song. That song jams!

[Dannyboy15]

I don't think Opeth and videos really mix. A well-done video of an Opeth song COULD be good, but I think the mental pictures and atmospheres their music creates would be much better than any video. Each album takes me into a sort of sub-universe of its own, and having a video would mess that up.

A video for the last couple Still Life songs would be sweet though.

Godheads Lament!

[One Step Beyond]

Master's Apprentice has one of the coolest riffs i've ever heard. The one that starts off the song. That song jams!
I love that riff so much, and it's so simple to play! It's prety much the most straight-forward riff I've heard from Opeth, and I've heard everything. :p

[Deth]

I don't think Opeth and videos really mix. A well-done video of an Opeth song COULD be good, but I think the mental pictures and atmospheres their music creates would be much better than any video. Each album takes me into a sort of sub-universe of its own, and having a video would mess that up.

A video for the last couple Still Life songs would be sweet though.
Yeah, if I had any knowledge of Flash and any artistic talent, I would make a video to play alongside the entire album.

[Jude]

Yeah, if I had any knowledge of Flash and any artistic talent, I would make a video to play alongside the entire album.
I totally would too, but honestly you have to admit no video could do justice to the mental images Opeth creates.

[Cliff Em All]

Problably a dumb question but since i just satrted listening to them i guess its justifyable: Did they do music for the Diablo computer games?

[whatduffhuck7]

I totally would too, but honestly you have to admit no video could do justice to the mental images Opeth creates.

i think the video was well done, i hate how they shortend the song though

One thing that I have noticed is that ever since Still Life, whenever Mikael plays a chord-based rhythm, it tends to use the EXACT SAME rhythm. Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh! Duuh-duh-duh-duh-duh!

in "the moor" he does that but thats the only song i can recall him doing that in. i think it sound might good too.


Master's Apprentice has one of the coolest riffs i've ever heard. The one that starts off the song. That song jams!

ive only listened to still life, blackwater park, ****ation, and ghost and i dont know song names too well but im gonna check and listen to that song right now on my dell dj

[One Step Beyond]

Problably a dumb question but since i just satrted listening to them i guess its justifyable: Did they do music for the Diablo computer games?
No. :confused:

I used to be addicted to that game and played it 24/7, and I don't remember anything sounding similar to Opeth.

[Jude]

No. :confused:

I used to be addicted to that game and played it 24/7, and I don't remember anything sounding similar to Opeth.

I wouldn't know, but I seriously doubt Opeth would have their music be used in a game. Especially not a lame clickfest like Diablo.

Which rhythm are you guys talking about? I can't seem to pin down which riffs you're referring to?

[bucket]

I wouldn't know, but I seriously doubt Opeth would have their music be used in a game. Especially not a lame clickfest like Diablo.

Which rhythm are you guys talking about? I can't seem to pin down which riffs you're referring to?

Drapery falls intro, Demon of the Fall intro, When riff right before the solo, TNATSW Emin-Esus2 riff (if I recall correctly). I could probably put more down if I went through every song.

It's half then 4 sixteenths repeated.

[soadrulez]

am i the only one who can't stop listening to benighted, such a nice song.

[Shattered_Future]

I just saw the video for The Grand Conjuration.

What the crap was that? :confused:

[Chu]

Especially not a lame clickfest like Diablo.
Diablo I & II were so goood.

I can't wait for a Diablo III (If there will be?). Sorry about the spam :D

[BlindWriting]

Problably a dumb question but since i just satrted listening to them i guess its justifyable: Did they do music for the Diablo computer games?
Actually, I've always thought that the music in the first area (foresty places) in Diablo II sound STRONGLY like Opeth's acoustic work.

[Jude]

I just saw the video for The Grand Conjuration.

What the crap was that? :confused:

It was crap. The band had little if anything to do with its production and they don't like it either, from what I've heard.

Diablo is crap. All you do is click on monsters and press a button to chug potions until you win. Recently people in my dorm have started playing this game Dungeon Siege 2 which is pretty much just Diablo in 3D and on a network. I can't see the attraction of these games.

[UpperDecker]

I thought the video was pretty cool. I mean its new Opeth and on tv so who cares, at least they're getting played.

[Shattered_Future]

Yes, but that's good AND bad, which goes along with an idea i got when I saw Ghost Reveries in Hot Topic.

Sure, Opeth is getting more publicity.

But soon, they will be whored by all teenage mallcore fanboys who claim Opeth to be their "favorite band", and think that Opeth is a "totally k00l new band" with Ghost Reveries as their debut.

THAT I don't want to happen at any cost.

[Scoot]

Anyone going to the Opeth/Nevermore tour?

[i am the robots]

Anyone going to the Opeth/Nevermore tour?

I wish, but the show closest to me is on a Monday, so I can't :upset:

[One Step Beyond]

Anyone going to the Opeth/Nevermore tour?
Hopefully I will be.

[Flynn]

I thought the video was pretty cool. I mean its new Opeth and on tv so who cares, at least they're getting played.


Just because it's new, no matter how crappy it is, doesn't mean it's good. Of course it's new Opeth, but the video isn't all that great, IMO.

[Jude]

Yes, but that's good AND bad, which goes along with an idea i got when I saw Ghost Reveries in Hot Topic.

Sure, Opeth is getting more publicity.

But soon, they will be whored by all teenage mallcore fanboys who claim Opeth to be their "favorite band", and think that Opeth is a "totally k00l new band" with Ghost Reveries as their debut.

THAT I don't want to happen at any cost.
I wouldn't worry too much about that. Those kids don't have the attention span for it.

[I'm Charming]

Yeah. The preppy "aww abercrombie" mall boys will go back to their green day records after 5 minutes. They won't have the pationence to listen to a whole song by opeth much less a whole album. Nor understand its musical brillence.

[Killtacular]

Who listens to a song for 10 minutes? It's so boring. I'll just stick to my 3 minute pop-punk songs that are so much more hardcore than a bunch of stupid metal guys who play the same thing for three times that long. Sheesh.

[I'm Charming]

Who listens to a song for 10 minutes? It's so boring. I'll just stick to my 3 minute pop-punk songs that are so much more hardcore than a bunch of stupid metal guys who play the same thing for three times that long. Sheesh.

You think thats just a lil bit ignorant?
Opeth songs evolve over the song. Plus to even compare Opeth to pop punk, makes me question wether you even have a brain. If you can't hear the difference you are not only stupid but deaf.

[Jude]

You think thats just a lil bit ignorant?
Opeth songs evolve over the song. Plus to even compare Opeth to pop punk, makes me question wether you even have a brain. If you can't hear the difference you are not only stupid but deaf.
Here's your early Christmas present. It's a sarcasm detector. Enjoy.

[I'm Charming]

Here's your early Christmas present. It's a sarcasm detector. Enjoy.
Now that I look again, yeah.............. :lol:

[Dummer'n'Drummer]

Anyone going to the Opeth/Nevermore tour?


Yep, I'm going to the one in Montreal....


Oh and your pop-punk won't even be even close to Opeth.... and thus in every way! Musically, lyrically, vocally, you name it and Opeth will ALWAYS be better then some lame *** pop-punk band for the simple fact that those pop bands are only axed on making the most money possible. If we take a look at Opeth, they're creating works of musical and lyrical art and they don't even care about the money. Dream Theaters ''A Change of Seasons'' is 24 minutes long and is some of the best musical compositions I've heard musically ever..... Now the BEST musical/lyrical composition ever will always be Black Rose Immortal IMO......

Now, if we move into the political badass underground punk, we now have aggressive yet intelligent lyrics about political issues.... although I still find that the ryffs often suck as it's just lame *** thrashing on every instrument...

[Jude]

Yep, I'm going to the one in Montreal....


Oh and your pop-punk won't even be even close to Opeth.... and thus in every way! Musically, lyrically, vocally, you name it and Opeth will ALWAYS be better then some lame *** pop-punk band for the simple fact that those pop bands are only axed on making the most money possible. If we take a look at Opeth, they're creating works of musical and lyrical art and they don't even care about the money. Dream Theaters ''A Change of Seasons'' is 24 minutes long and is some of the best musical compositions I've heard musically ever..... Now the BEST musical/lyrical composition ever will always be Black Rose Immortal IMO......

Now, if we move into the political badass underground punk, we now have aggressive yet intelligent lyrics about political issues.... although I still find that the ryffs often suck as it's just lame *** thrashing on every instrument...

Relevancy to topic ++ :lol:

[Dummer'n'Drummer]

Guy whinning about long songs not being hardcore enough or whatever....

[Hells Bells]

Guy whinning about long songs not being hardcore enough or whatever....

Here's your early Christmas present. It's a sarcasm detector. Enjoy.

;)

I still haven't seen the Grand Conjuration video....
I almost don't want to see it, I'm not going to like seeing the song cut up like that.

[Flynn]

Who listens to a song for 10 minutes? It's so boring. I'll just stick to my 3 minute pop-punk songs that are so much more hardcore than a bunch of stupid metal guys who play the same thing for three times that long. Sheesh.


hahahahahahaha

you're funny :D

[Killtacular]

hahahahahahaha
you're funny :D

I tried.

[Flynn]

I tried.

:p

I've always liked the fact of song's being lengthy. Especially songs that are so good, I just want them to keep going! Coincidentaly, Opeth's song length's are a huge reason why I started listening to them...that and the song titles on Orchid were too good not to pass up. 10 minutes really isn't that long, 60 minutes is long! :lol:
Light Of Day, Day Of Darkness by Green Carnation is over an hour long...and every second is precious.

[Deth]

Fantomas' Delirium Cordia is 74 minutes long. And it's very strange.

[Killtacular]

I love long songs. I usually find it offensive when a song is short.

It started with Tool's Lateralus, and those 8+ minute songs. Then Pink Floyd, and Opeth. Opeth song lengths please me. GY!BE has some hideously long songs, too.

Good times.

[Deth]

I can only occasionaly listen to GY!BE, they tend to bore me if I listen to more than two songs.

[Flynn]

Fantomas' Delirium Cordia is 74 minutes long. And it's very strange.


Yeah that song is crazy.

[The Cynic]

Has anybody heard that song on the Road Runner all star cd with Mikeal?

[Flynn]

Has anybody heard that song on the Road Runner all star cd with Mikeal?


No. I don't own any albums from that label anymore. How does it sound?

[Darkness]

No. I don't own any albums from that label anymore. How does it sound?
Did you throw out Ghost Reveries or something?

[Flynn]

Did you throw out Ghost Reveries or something?


No.

[ATC]

The Grand Conjuration video doesn't seem to tie in with whatever loose concept GR has. Seemed to be about some guy torturing a child molester while the molestee tries to live with it. Eh, they never make music videos right.

[Mr. Ron]

Anyone going to the Opeth/Nevermore tour?
Seeing them on November 2nd. :cool:

[Darkness]

No.
So technically you do own a cd by that label.. :confused:

[Mr. Ron]

I don't want to start this again but...










I just listened to GR all the way through. It's so friggin' weak. What happend to my Opeth?





*awaits flames*

[Darkness]

I don't want to start this again but...










I just listened to GR all the way through. It's so friggin' weak. What happend to my Opeth?





*awaits flames*
I stand behind you on this statement. :D :thumb:

[Flynn]

The Grand Conjuration video doesn't seem to tie in with whatever loose concept GR has. Seemed to be about some guy torturing a child molester while the molestee tries to live with it. Eh, they never make music videos right.


From what I understand, Opeth didn't have anything to do with the video. The lyrics on the album don't even make sense from one song to another, canceling out any hope for a ''concept'' LP. If you try really hard, yes, it is a concept album. If you think the same word mentioned 2 times on an album is a ''concept'', sure, Ghost Reveries is. Song titles in other songs don't count.

If they did make the video to The Grand Conjuration, I will be really disapointed. In my opinion: It sucks. Seriously, the video is worthless and I never want to watch it again. Like the rest of the songs on the album, it has nothing to do with anything. It's all random.







And for the record, Ghost Reveries is NOT A CONCEPT ALBUM

[I'm Charming]

I don't want to start this again but...


I just listened to GR all the way through. It's so friggin' weak. What happend to my Opeth?
*awaits flames*


*flames begin*

Ghost reveries is awsome. It's not as good as ****ation. But its better than blackwater park and their other stuff.

[Darkness]

But its better than blackwater park and their other stuff.
I like to respect peoples opinions and stuff, but that was just plain stupid.

[Flynn]

I don't want to start this again but...


I just listened to GR all the way through. It's so friggin' weak. What happend to my Opeth?

*awaits flames*

To answer your question, Roadrunner.

[Jude]

From what I understand, Opeth didn't have anything to do with the video. The lyrics on the album don't even make sense from one song to another, canceling out any hope for a ''concept'' LP. If you try really hard, yes, it is a concept album. If you think the same word mentioned 2 times on an album is a ''concept'', sure, Ghost Reveries is. Song titles in other songs don't count.

If they did make the video to The Grand Conjuration, I will be really disapointed. In my opinion: It sucks. Seriously, the video is worthless and I never want to watch it again. Like the rest of the songs on the album, it has nothing to do with anything. It's all random.







And for the record, Ghost Reveries is NOT A CONCEPT ALBUM

You're saying that like it's a bad thing....only MAYH and Still Life were concept albums though.

[ATC]

From what I understand, Opeth didn't have anything to do with the video. The lyrics on the album don't even make sense from one song to another, canceling out any hope for a ''concept'' LP. If you try really hard, yes, it is a concept album. If you think the same word mentioned 2 times on an album is a ''concept'', sure, Ghost Reveries is. Song titles in other songs don't count.

If they did make the video to The Grand Conjuration, I will be really disapointed. In my opinion: It sucks. Seriously, the video is worthless and I never want to watch it again. Like the rest of the songs on the album, it has nothing to do with anything. It's all random.

And for the record, Ghost Reveries is NOT A CONCEPT ALBUM

I know that. Wasn't it supposed to have been one but they couldn't fit it together? But the video has nothing to do with anything which kills it completely.

In either case, I'm just happy, despite its shortcomings, that it's getting airplay. Opeth's doing an in-store on Friday before their concert and for some reason, I'm not the only one I know who's heard about it. That a lot more people care now is, as far as I'm concerned, a good thing.

[Darkness]

I have a feeling that they may attract the wrong kind of crowd now though, and those kids will be getting all the floor tickets, while were sitting in the nose bleeds..

[Flynn]

You're saying that like it's a bad thing....only MAYH and Still Life were concept albums though.

There's nothing negative about Ghost Reveries not being a concept album. I'm clearing confusion to others on this thread.
My Arms, Your Hearse is their only real ''concept'' album to me. Still Life is weak in that category compared to it. When you look at the booklets, you see the songs on Still Life are seperate, while the booklet on My Arms, Your Hearse is one entire story. Still Life, to me, is brief concept. The songs venture out of the certain area of a concept. It's a decent ''story'', but all in all, My Arms, Your Hearse is Opeth's only true concept album.

[Darkness]

There's nothing negative about Ghost Reveries not being a concept album. I'm clearing confusion to others on this thread.
My Arms, Your Hearse is their only real ''concept'' album to me. Still Life is weak in that category compared to it. When you look at the booklets, you see the songs on Still Life are seperate, while the booklet on My Arms, Your Hearse is one entire story. Still Life, to me, is brief concept. The songs venture out of the certain area of a concept. It's a decent ''story'', but all in all, My Arms, Your Hearse is Opeth's only true concept album.
Now this I disagree with, Still Life is a concept album, and a darn good one at that. So what if the booklet has the songs all seperate? This is good for Still Life, since each song is like a different chapter and tells a different part of the story. Its telling the same story, but its not like its one song. And you seemed to take a stab at Ghost Reveries for having some of the same words in songs, then you go defending My Arms, Your Hearse as a concept album... look at the lyrics that cd. Also, if you would have read someones thoughts about what the story behind GR could meen, I think you may feel differently about its concept, specially since you're the one who said that Blackwater Park had a concept.

[Flynn]

Now this I disagree with, Still Life is a concept album, and a darn good one at that. So what if the booklet has the songs all seperate? This is good for Still Life, since each song is like a different chapter and tells a different part of the story. Its telling the same story, but its not like its one song. And you seemed to take a stab at Ghost Reveries for having some of the same words in songs, then you go defending My Arms, Your Hearse as a concept album... look at the lyrics that cd. Also, if you would have read someones thoughts about what the story behind GR could meen, I think you may feel differently about its concept, specially since you're the one who said that Blackwater Park had a concept.


haha my Government spoof? Dude, it was a joke. Still Life is a concept album, I said it was WEAK compared to My Arms, Your Hearse. And if you seriously think that Ghost Reveries is one too, :angry:
The lyrics on that album don't even make sense.


Reverie/Harlequin Forest:

Into the trees
Past meadow grounds
And further away from my home
Baying behind me
I hear the hounds
Flock's chasing to find me alone

A trail of sickness
Leading to me
If I am haunted
Then you will see

Searching the darkness
And emptiness
I'm hiding away from the sun
Will never rest
Will never be at ease
All my matter's expired so I run

There falls another
Vapor hands released the blade
Insane regrets at the drop
Instruments of death before me

Lose all to save a little
At your peril it's justified
And dismiss your demons
As death becomes a jest
You are the laughing stock
Of the absinthe minded
Confessions stuck in your mouth
And long gone fevers reappear

Nocturnally helpless
And weak in the light
Depending on a prayer
Pacing deserted roads to find
A seed of hope

They are the trees
Rotten pulp inside and never well
Roots sucking, thieving from my source
Tired boughs reaching for the light

It is all false pretension
Harlequin forest
Awaiting redemption for a lifetime
As they die alone
With no one by their side
Are they forgiven?

Stark determination
Poisoning the soul
Unfettered beast inside
Claiming sovereign control

And now the woods are burning
Tearing life crops asunder
Useless blackened remains
Still pyre smoldering

Yeah, that makes sense...oh wait, the underlined segment signifies it IS a concept album! By god, it's a title to another song on Ghost Reveries!

Read the lyrics to Atonement before this song, that makes even more sense...

Ghost Reveries Is Not A Concept Album!

[bball_1523]

I have a feeling that they may attract the wrong kind of crowd now though, and those kids will be getting all the floor tickets, while were sitting in the nose bleeds..

I kinda have that feeling too. Hard to deny. I was talking to a friend about Opeth and he mentioned how they were all popular all over the internet. It kinda bothers me now because I don't want them selling out. As long as their music is good, that's all I care about. I definitely don't want to see Opeth being a major trend.

[ATC]

It'll definitely be a better trend than all the 'core.
I want the bands I like to be successful cos I think they're good enough to deserve it and not because they identify me and make me feel special for being the only one that knows them. Though I am a little worried now that there might be kids trying to fight invisible ninjas at their concerts.

[suspect]

I had intended to do a occult concept piece lyrically and got off to a great start with some downright evil lyrics like "The baying of the hounds" and "Ghost of perdition", then I did "Isolation years" which had nothing to do with the intended concept but I liked it so much I decided to ease up on the concept idea in favour of this one lyric. Why I decided on a occult theme? Well, I've always been intrigued by it, especially Satanism and stuff like that. I studied some books that oddly enough my wife had in her collection like "Servants of Satan" as well as "Witchcraft and Sorcery" + some more.

Ghost Reveries is a concept album except for Isolation Years.

[I'm Charming]

For the record IMO ****ation is the best Opeth album. MAYH is second. They are all great though. Blackwater park is high up there.

Yeah, lets just hope hot topic doesn't find out about Opeth. Then we'd have scene kids showing up at their concerts, "to be cool". They would bring hardcore dancing. ughh. I shudder at the very thought.

[Cain]

To answer your question, Roadrunner.

You've been hammering away at Roadrunner like a typical tr00 fanboy that can't take the shift from indie status to major label status. Do you know anything about the making of the album? Do you know for a fact that Roadrunner was pressuring them to do stuff? I can't even understand what makes you think Roadrunner has anything to do with the "weakness" of the album. I detect absolutely no change in the general sound of the album from their previous works. There's plenty of growling, plenty of metal, plenty of acoustic. Your criticisms of the album seem primarily directed at the limper riffs, and the limper compositional tightness. Aside from the fact that I disagree completely with that assessment, even if it were truth then it's Mikael's fault, since he did all the writing. I don't exactly detect many strains of pop in the album. I don't hear anything that sounds like nu-metal or American Wave. There are so few differences in the general sound from BWP and Deliverance that any "weakness" you percieve would HAVE to be on a compositional level. Therefore, Mikael is the one you should be harping on about, not the label.

You were down on the move to RR from the start, and the reasons you cited were fear of label pressure to become more mainstream. I'm forced to conclude that that idea has just stuck fast in your brain, and you're simply making a negative association between "major label=sellout and crap music." Therefore, you are for some reason imagining that Roadrunner pressured Opeth into being crappy. Well I see absolutely no evidence of label pressure, since Opeth's sound hasn't changed one bit into a more mainstream direction. IT'S EXACTLY THE ****ING SAME. And it's not like the label would WANT Opeth to be crappy: they want their fans to buy the album and enjoy it. As I said, it's a writing problem, and so it's Mikael's problem, not the label's.

Ugh, I HATE it when people act so dumb about bands moving to major labels. Give me one bit of aural evidence from that album that screams "label pressure" and I'll friggin' rep you.

EDIT: BTW, an interesting fact: many of the songs on this album were written in open tunings. For instance, "The Grand Conjuration" and "Ghost of Perdition" were written in DADFAD tuning. "Reverie/Harlequine Forest" was in DADFAE.

[i am the robots]

You've been hammering away at Roadrunner like a typical tr00 fanboy that can't take the shift from indie status to major label status. Do you know anything about the making of the album? Do you know for a fact that Roadrunner was pressuring them to do stuff? I can't even understand what makes you think Roadrunner has anything to do with the "weakness" of the album. I detect absolutely no change in the general sound of the album from their previous works. There's plenty of growling, plenty of metal, plenty of acoustic. Your criticisms of the album seem primarily directed at the limper riffs, and the limper compositional tightness. Aside from the fact that I disagree completely with that assessment, even if it were truth then it's Mikael's fault, since he did all the writing. I don't exactly detect many strains of pop in the album. I don't hear anything that sounds like nu-metal or American Wave. There are so few differences in the general sound from BWP and Deliverance that any "weakness" you percieve would HAVE to be on a compositional level. Therefore, Mikael is the one you should be harping on about, not the label.

You were down on the move to RR from the start, and the reasons you cited were fear of label pressure to become more mainstream. I'm forced to conclude that that idea has just stuck fast in your brain, and you're simply making a negative association between "major label=sellout and crap music." Therefore, you are for some reason imagining that Roadrunner pressured Opeth into being crappy. Well I see absolutely no evidence of label pressure, since Opeth's sound hasn't changed one bit into a more mainstream direction. IT'S EXACTLY THE ****ING SAME. And it's not like the label would WANT Opeth to be crappy: they want their fans to buy the album and enjoy it. As I said, it's a writing problem, and so it's Mikael's problem, not the label's.

Ugh, I HATE it when people act so dumb about bands moving to major labels. Give me one bit of aural evidence from that album that screams "label pressure" and I'll friggin' rep you.

EDIT: BTW, an interesting fact: many of the songs on this album were written in open tunings. For instance, "The Grand Conjuration" and "Ghost of Perdition" were written in DADFAD tuning. "Reverie/Harlequine Forest" was in DADFAE.

Thank you for that post, I've gotten tired of posting in here because out of nowhere nearly all of the intellegence left. Not sure if your saying Ghost Reveries is a bad album [where I strongly dissagree, I think it's brilliant], but your explaining that they aren't sell-outs at least.

[Cain]

I am by no means saying that Ghost Reveries is a bad album. In fact, I think it's far superior to Deliverance.

[The Flabbit Rides High]

I am by no means saying that Ghost Reveries is a bad album. In fact, I think it's far superior to Deliverance.

I kinda don't compare Opeth albums to Deliverance because it was set out to be intentionaly heavy! Most songs on there are at least abit more heavy than standard Opeth songs.

Btw, I think Ghost Reveries is an amazing album. It is my opinion that they focussed mainly on the tightness of the songs compared to the long, streched out riff sections previous albums contained.

Yes, it does sometimes seem abit muddled (see intro to Beneath The Mire) but I believe that the keyboards will play a much better role in future albums. More atmosphere. I also don't believe the record lable had anything to do with the quality of the album. I in fact think it seems to have better production value compared to the DIY standards of previous albums.

Opeth are indeed changing. They always have. But I still believe they have a bright future ahead of them

[Mr. Ron]

*flames begin*

Ghost reveries is awsome. It's not as good as ****ation. But its better than blackwater park and their other stuff.

HAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Seriously, don't post here anymore.

[Mr. Ron]

I am by no means saying that Ghost Reveries is a bad album. In fact, I think it's far superior to Deliverance.
*Sigh*

I give up.

[Cain]

HAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Seriously, don't post here anymore.

Why shouldn't he? Just because he likes Ghost Reveries better than Blackwater Park? Is that such an inconcievable thought?

*Sigh*

I give up.

Fine, I guess, if you want to be really immature about people having different opinions from you.

Seriously, I am massively disappointed and not a little disgusted in the attitudes of certain people in this thread. Is your capacity for tolerance so whittled down by endless masturbation and ejaculation over Opeth (or rather, some idealized notion of what Opeth is and should be) that the instant someone comes in with a contrary view to your own you tell them to not post in the thread? That you'll ignore a valid argument, not even deigning it with a response, so that you continue to go on and on about how major labels R teh dev1l?

I have no idea what happened to the people in this thread; the majority of the regs, with the exception of Darkness of Greed, bucket, and Grey Incision, seem to have lost every shred of tolerance and posting intelligence they possess. Flynn, I'm especially disappointed in you. As the threadstarter, I expected more from you than mindless anti-label rhetoric.

[UpperDecker]

Why shouldn't he? Just because he likes Ghost Reveries better than Blackwater Park? Is that such an inconcievable thought?



Fine, I guess, if you want to be really immature about people having different opinions from you.

Seriously, I am massively disappointed and not a little disgusted in the attitudes of certain people in this thread. Is your capacity for tolerance so whittled down by endless masturbation and ejaculation over Opeth (or rather, some idealized notion of what Opeth is and should be) that the instant someone comes in with a contrary view to your own you tell them to not post in the thread? That you'll ignore a valid argument, not even deigning it with a response, so that you continue to go on and on about how major labels R teh dev1l?

I have no idea what happened to the people in this thread; the majority of the regs, with the exception of Darkness of Greed, bucket, and Grey Incision, seem to have lost every shred of tolerance and posting intelligence they possess. Flynn, I'm especially disappointed in you. As the threadstarter, I expected more from you than mindless anti-label rhetoric.

that kicked *** :thumb:

[Mr. Ron]

Why shouldn't he? Just because he likes Ghost Reveries better than Blackwater Park? Is that such an inconcievable thought?



Fine, I guess, if you want to be really immature about people having different opinions from you.

Seriously, I am massively disappointed and not a little disgusted in the attitudes of certain people in this thread. Is your capacity for tolerance so whittled down by endless masturbation and ejaculation over Opeth (or rather, some idealized notion of what Opeth is and should be) that the instant someone comes in with a contrary view to your own you tell them to not post in the thread? That you'll ignore a valid argument, not even deigning it with a response, so that you continue to go on and on about how major labels R teh dev1l?

I have no idea what happened to the people in this thread; the majority of the regs, with the exception of Darkness of Greed, bucket, and Grey Incision, seem to have lost every shred of tolerance and posting intelligence they possess. Flynn, I'm especially disappointed in you. As the threadstarter, I expected more from you than mindless anti-label rhetoric.

Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong. GR is definetly sub-par compared to Deliverance.

Plus, I don't really care that they signed to RR. Their choice.

But you have to admit, GR is definetly their worst album. It just seems to me that their greatness has left them. For now anyways....

Also, who says it's bad to be critical of your favorite band? I'd say real fans are the ones who are critical of their favorite band because they only expect the best out of them, and GR is definetly not their best.

[UpperDecker]

Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong. GR is definetly sub-par compared to Deliverance.

Plus, I don't really care that they signed to RR. Their choice.

But you have to admit, GR is definetly their worst album. It just seems to me that their greatness has left them. For now anyways....

Also, who says it's bad to be critical of your favorite band? I'd say real fans are the ones who are critical of their favorite band because they only expect the best out of them, and GR is definetly not their best.

What are you talking about? Its called an opinion, if someone thinks GR is better than Deliverance then let it be. geez.

[Mr. Ron]

What are you talking about? Its called an opinion, if someone thinks GR is better than Deliverance then let it be. geez.
I know it's his opinion. But opinions are sometimes wrong with evidence. By this I mean the overall quality of the albums compared to eachother. Gr is just not up to par with Opeth's other albums, and thats the honest 100% truth even though some of you won't admit it.

I for one like SOME of the songs on GR, but I find my self skipping to those songs, listening to them, then switching GR out of my CD player for Morningrise or Orchid.

[ArcLite]

Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong.

This is one of the most unbelievably rediculous statements I've ever seen in all the time I've been here.

[UpperDecker]

This is one of the most unbelievably rediculous statements I've ever seen in all the time I've been here.

Opinions cant be wrong.

[Mr. Ron]

Opinions cant be wrong.
Yes they can. If the evidence against the opinion is overwhelming and true, the opinion can be wrong.

For example: Nickleback is MUCH more talented than Opeth. (I don't believe this, i'm using it as an example.)

^^^ Now that's my opinion, but it's obviously wrong because of the evidence against it is true.

[Cain]

Other's opinions are fine and everything, but saying GR is better than Deliverance is clearly wrong. GR is definetly sub-par compared to Deliverance.

Excuse me? "Clearly" wrong? How on earth am I irrevocably "wrong" for saying such a thing? I'd like to hear your case for this. What precisely was so clearly better about Deliverance than Ghost Reveries? Matter of fact, what's your specific problem with GR?

Plus, I don't really care that they signed to RR. Their choice.

Flynn is the one going on about that, I was responding to him.

But you have to admit, GR is definetly their worst album. I don't have to admit any such thing, since you have provided me with absolutely nothing except vague subjective judgements with regard to compositional "weakness" to prove me wrong. I have yet to see a clearly-outlined case for why GR is so "weak," so "bad," etc. I would love to hear it.

Also, who says it's bad to be critical of your favorite band? I'd say real fans are the ones who are critical of their favorite band because they only expect the best out of them, and GR is definetly not their best.

I'm the last person that's saying that, obviously: clearly you, however, seemed to take all sorts of issues with my criticism of Deliverance and ****ation, so I think you're being a little hypocritical here. What I'm upset about here is the utter failure of the ability to post well and clearly in the context of an argument/debate--the outlining of one's case, the qualification that you are stating your own opinion rather than solid undeniable fact, etc--exhibited by people like you and Flynn.

You have not provided a clear, by-the-numbers criticism of the album, that makes it clear to me what your opinion of it is. Flynn has not cited any sort of evidence from the album's sound or musical trends to support the case that Roadrunner pressured them into making a weak album. I have yet to see a clear, definitive thesis on WHAT precisely is wrong with GR as compared to previous albums, other than vague statements like "duuuur it's weak, their greatness has left them." And finally, saying "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA seriously, don't post here anymore" to something as harmless as "I think GR is better than Blackwater Park" is the attitude and posting style of the worst sort of n00bs. Seriously, WTF guys? Do any of you even post anywhere else besides here anymore?

[Cain]

Yes they can. If the evidence against the opinion is overwhelming and true, the opinion can be wrong.

For example: Nickleback is MUCH more talented than Opeth. (I don't believe this, i'm using it as an example.)

But it all goes back to subjective taste. A great many people feel that death metal requires no talent or skill to play, since conventional melodies and such things are almost non-existant. Someone may easily think Nickelback are more talented because they write better melodic hooks, catchier songs, etc. So that opinion, DESPITE THE FACT THAT I WOULD VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE, is in NO way "obviously wrong." It is simply an unlikely and perhaps uninformed opinion. However if a person listened to Opeth carefully and cited specific things about them that didn't appeal to them, I would have no problem with someone holding that view.

[Mr. Ron]

Excuse me? "Clearly" wrong? How on earth am I irrevocably "wrong" for saying such a thing? I'd like to hear your case for this. What precisely was so clearly better about Deliverance than Ghost Reveries? Matter of fact, what's your specific problem with GR?



Flynn is the one going on about that, I was responding to him.

I don't have to admit any such thing, since you have provided me with absolutely nothing except vague subjective judgements with regard to compositional "weakness" to prove me wrong. I have yet to see a clearly-outlined case for why GR is so "weak," so "bad," etc. I would love to hear it.



I'm the last person that's saying that, obviously: clearly you, however, seemed to take all sorts of issues with my criticism of Deliverance and ****ation, so I think you're being a little hypocritical here. What I'm upset about here is the utter failure of the ability to post well and clearly in the context of an argument/debate--the outlining of one's case, the qualification that you are stating your own opinion rather than solid undeniable fact, etc--exhibited by people like you and Flynn.

You have not provided a clear, by-the-numbers criticism of the album, that makes it clear to me what your opinion of it is. Flynn has not cited any sort of evidence from the album's sound or musical trends to support the case that Roadrunner pressured them into making a weak album. I have yet to see a clear, definitive thesis on WHAT precisely is wrong with GR as compared to previous albums, other than vague statements like "duuuur it's weak, their greatness has left them." And finally, saying "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA seriously, don't post here anymore" to something as harmless as "I think GR is better than Blackwater Park" is the attitude and posting style of the worst sort of n00bs. Seriously, WTF guys? Do any of you even post anywhere else besides here anymore?

My specific problems with GR is that it seems rushed, The keyboards aren't utalized correctly, the songs almost sound pop-ish, most of the songs seem