The PA Thread

[Chrisman69]

Hey my band is about to get a 300+300 watt powered mixer but unfortounatly were short on cash for speakers.... so is it possible to only run one speaker out of the mixer or will that do some damage?

thanks

[Aes820]

Hey my band is about to get a 300+300 watt powered mixer but unfortounatly were short on cash for speakers.... so is it possible to only run one speaker out of the mixer or will that do some damage?

thanks
If the amp is rated to pump out 2 x 300 watts while at 4 ohms. And If you can Bridge the amp. Then you can run one single 8 ohm 600 watt speaker off the bridged output if you wish.
But you'll only be able to do this if everything I said above were true.
Otherwise, no, just wait till you can afford to get both speakers at once.

[Chrisman69]

alrite thanks man. but a few more questions :)

1) what does it mean if a speaker is 200 watts program and 400 watts peak?

2) the mixer we plan on buying only has 6 inputs and we need 5 inputs for vocals/guitar/bass so that only leaves 1 input for drums wich would be kind of hard to work with. so would it be possible to run a smaller mixer into our main mixer? like use the 6th input on our main mixer to run a small 4 input mixer to mic the drums with?

so it would be all

vocal1-------------------------------> 1st input
vocal2-------------------------------> 2ns input
guitar1------------------------------> 3rd input
guitar2------------------------------> 4th input
Bass--------------------------------> 5th input
Drums---------small mixer-----------> 6th input

thanks

[Aes820]

1) Peak power handeling is the absolute maximum the speaker will be able to handle before damage. Similarly, an amplifier may have a peak power output.
Just bare in mind that this is differnt to an amplifiers RMS power output.
Which in term is similar to a speakers program power rating, or pretty much the maximum average power a speaker will be able to dissipate while reproducing general full range audio (actual music).

When speaker and amplifier shopping. It is the RMS or the Program power ratings that you want to pay attention to the most.

2). Yeah. That'll be fine.

[Chrisman69]

alite. so 200 watt program/400 watt peak speakers would not work with a 300x2 power amp? wierd cuz these speakers were freekin huge

[Aes820]

If those speakers were rated as 8 ohm speakers and the amp is rated to pump out (2x) 300 watts while at 4 ohms. Then it will be okay to run these speakers off our amp.
Because of the extra ohm load that the speakers will have on the amp, the power output of the amp will not be 300 watts, it may be reduced down to around 200 watts (or so). And it will therefore be okay to run those speakers off it.

[diesel]

If you are able to use a little common sense, you can try this to get the most out of small PA setups. if say my speakers are 500w peaks and 250W RMS, then I would get a rated 600-700W amp to drive it, and run the amp about lower-mid power.

You can do this because an amp clipping (from not having any headroom) will trash your speakers much faster than a LITTLE too much power. So by holding the amp back, as your music gets louder, your amp can keep up, instead of clipping.

[Horenulas]

Well I have a question:

http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i106475.music

I just bought the Kustom KPA7212. It arrived at my band mate's house 2 days ago. He hooked it up and everything worked great. Then today we had it working at his house, and we decided to bring it over to my house where we practice. We hooked it all up and stuff, and turned it on. Then we had no sound and I realize the "Channel On" light isn't on, but the Main power light is on. It makes me made because the only power switch on the mixer is the main power. There is no channel power button. I don't really no what to do. I've tried plugging it in to different outlets to no success. I'm just really ticked off because I have practice tomorrow morning, it's 2 am, and my PA doesn't work. So if you guys have any ideas let me know. Thanks a lot in advance.

[Aes820]

Well I have a question:

http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i106475.music

I just bought the Kustom KPA7212. It arrived at my band mate's house 2 days ago. He hooked it up and everything worked great. Then today we had it working at his house, and we decided to bring it over to my house where we practice. We hooked it all up and stuff, and turned it on. Then we had no sound and I realize the "Channel On" light isn't on, but the Main power light is on. It makes me made because the only power switch on the mixer is the main power. There is no channel power button. I don't really no what to do. I've tried plugging it in to different outlets to no success. I'm just really ticked off because I have practice tomorrow morning, it's 2 am, and my PA doesn't work. So if you guys have any ideas let me know. Thanks a lot in advance.
That really sucks mate. Sorry I can't be of much help. Because I'm unfamiliar with those particular powered mixers.
But I just want to make sure that you did have the speakers plugged in properly, and that you've checked to see if the fuses have not blown.

You may have to take it to a tech.

[Horenulas]

That really sucks mate. Sorry I can't be of much help. Because I'm unfamiliar with those particular powered mixers.
But I just want to make sure that you did have the speakers plugged in properly, and that you've checked to see if the fuses have not blown.

You may have to take it to a tech.


How can I check to see if the fuses haven't blown? Do you think this could be the cause of a channel disfunction even when the power says on? Thanks for the help.

[Aes820]

That's what I'm kind of confused about. Usually if a fuse has blown then the amp shouldn't even turn on at all. The main power light won't switch on.

Have you tried plugging your mic into a different input on the PA. Or are all chanels not working?

If you turn up the volume of the PA can you hear a slight buzz noise out of the speakers, or are they completely silent?

Sorry, but you may need to have a talk to a tech.

[Echleon]

Hi.

I'm looking into investing into a PA.

I wouldn't want to spend more than £300 ($500?), and i'd like it to have about 6 inputs. It wouldn't only need enough power for playing pubs and clubs.

I really don't know too much about PA's.

[moaner]

Hi.

I'm looking into investing into a PA.

I wouldn't want to spend more than £300 ($500?), and i'd like it to have about 6 inputs. It wouldn't only need enough power for playing pubs and clubs.

I really don't know too much about PA's.

http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i106475.music

I might've said this if the guy above's hadn't just broke :D


For that much, you'd probably be looking at around 250w, and you'd probably want to get a powered mixer and then a seperate mixer to plug into it.

There's a bit of a black hole in the market for that kinda thing, most people after cheap PAs don't need many watts.

Many pubs/clubs have their own PAs, as to many larger bands, so i'd do a little homework, and unless you're headlining the gigs you're playing it may not be the best inventment at this time to try and buy one large enough.

[Horenulas]

That's what I'm kind of confused about. Usually if a fuse has blown then the amp shouldn't even turn on at all. The main power light won't switch on.

Have you tried plugging your mic into a different input on the PA. Or are all chanels not working?

If you turn up the volume of the PA can you hear a slight buzz noise out of the speakers, or are they completely silent?

Sorry, but you may need to have a talk to a tech.


Actually I do get the buzzing noise out of the speakers. And yes none of the channels work at all. I'm contacting the website I purchased it from to see If I should send it back or what.

[hantge30]

AES can you run only one channel of a power amp or does it have to be 2
oh and bridging is not accepted

[devildriver421]

There's a lot of amps that can be bridged, but you have to remember the wattage will be increased. If it can't be bridged I'd imagine you'd have to run through both channels

[Aes820]

Actually I do get the buzzing noise out of the speakers. And yes none of the channels work at all. I'm contacting the website I purchased it from to see If I should send it back or what.
If you are 100% sure you've got all the controls set how they should be (like you haven't got a mute button pushed in or something) then it sounds like something has broken inside the amp.
It'll be a good idea to talk to the manufactures about if you can get a replacement or a repair under warranty.

[Aes820]

AES can you run only one channel of a power amp or does it have to be 2
oh and bridging is not accepted
It's considered bad practise to only run one side of a stereo poweramp.
What you could do is buy a load resisitor for the unused channel.

[moaner]

or build!

/stingey DIY ++

If i ever had to do that, just sticking a load of 64R resistors in parallel would be fine, wouldn't it?

[Aes820]

If i ever had to do that, just sticking a load of 64R resistors in parallel would be fine, wouldn't it?
Yeah. But you'd want to use those fat high-wattage resistors. And they'll need to have a decent heat sink on them. Because they will get bloody hot.

[moaner]

ah, fair enough.

First time I ordered resistors i didn't think 1w would be enough so i got osme 10w ones...

They're huge (4x1cm?), and have cement insulation on them. :lol: I've still got them somewhere

[Killroy]

ill just come out straight, i know next to NOTHING about PA's
but my bands is going to need a bunch of audio equipment, and in 2 paychecks we all plan on getting a bunch of audio stuff. lets just exclude mics and cables here: im going to need a mixer, speakers and i've read im going to need a power amp, am i correct?

i've also read you need a certain amount of watts in a power amp compared to the speakers, i dont know the ratio however, could i get some help here?
btw we plan on getting a 12 channel mixer if that means anything.

btw we arnt looking for THEE BEST stuff, yet we arnt willing to cheap out on our equipment, so if you could list intermediate stuff, that would be awesome.

[devildriver421]

If you know nothing about pa systems, look into a powered mixer. Unless you have specific needs, it's easier. What do you need it for(big shows, practices, small gigs, etc)? Why are you set on a 12 channel mixer?

[Killroy]

well we already have a combination of basement shows and outdoor shows planned for friends and parties etc starting in october. we could use it for practices as well i 'spose. anyways we're set on a 12 channel mixer becasue we have 2 guitarists' a bassist and myself (the drummer). im going to need 4 mic's for my kit, both guitarist's will need 2 channels each, as will the bassist. now thats only 10 channels, but i'd like to have a 2 channel cushion, just incase we need somthing unexpected.

[Aes820]

If you are planning to mic up everything, including drums and DIing the bass:
For this to be worthwhile then you'll need a BIG PA system. Like I'm talking at least a couple thousand watts all up.
A setup like this would not only be complicated (not good for someone who knows next to nothin about PAs), but also very expensive.


For smaller setups for playing at backyard parties or community halls, you can get away with just running vocals thrugh the PA. Then for this, a powered mixer would be the way to go.
At least 2x300 watts. You'd have to rely on your own amps and the loudness of the drums alone for the rest.

[airborne50caliber]

Yeah, and you'd be surprised how loud even some solid state combos go when you push them. Be careful to not overdo it, otherwise you will muddy up and distort the sound. But the point is you don't necessarily need a tube 4 x 12 for a gig

[devildriver421]

Yeah you don't need to mic the drums really. Usually the bass drum needs it the most, maybe the snare. I couldn't imagine mic'ing the cymbals for anything other than a stadium-sized gig.

What you might want to look into is triggers and a module. You can change the sound in the module, and you only have one line going to the pa system. It's up to you.

My band just bought a 10 channel mixer, with 5 inputs. We figured it'd be good for us because we have 2 singers, then the drummer's module, possible the bassist's amp, and if ever needed, my guitar amp.

If you plan on mic'ing drums so that they can be heard, AES is right, you'd need upwards of a thousand watts. Our drummer mostly just needs to mic his bassdrum, and we're using it for small gigs only.

I still don't see why 12 is your set number, but look into some powered mixers, they're much easier to deal with. Then look at speakers. It's not that difficult really.

[hantge30]

how big of gigs could we get by with 500 watts for our mains
oh and its not 250x2 its 500x2
thanks

[devildriver421]

With a 1,000 watt pa system you could definitely have some decent sized shows. Not huge shows, but pretty big. AES would know better.

[moaner]

how big of gigs could we get by with 500 watts for our mains
oh and its not 250x2 its 500x2
thanks

500w a side would go really quite a long way

by some flawed* logic some will tell you 100 people, but common sense prevails and a large hall with 2-300 people could be just about managed.






















*IMO!

[Aes820]

how big of gigs could we get by with 500 watts for our mains
oh and its not 250x2 its 500x2
thanks
It would really depend what you run through it.
If you just run vocals through it it'll handle quite alot.

But if you run Bass guitar, drums, guitar + vocals through it then it wont go as far as it would otherwise.
As it would take up more watts to handle the wider range of frequencies, especially with the lower frequencies associated with the bass guitar and the kick drum. They gobble up headroom like nothing else.

[hantge30]

well right now we are running 2 guitars,vocals,bass
but we are adding a trumpet and a trombone...(to play ska)
so it prolly wont be as loud as it should
with all that factored in how big...? could you give me an estimate
also would we need to mic the drums right now.... i dont think so im just making sure

[Ozduck]

Hey guys

I currently have a Behringer Europower PMH5000 (800 watter)

I would like to know what kinda speakers would be best to buy that would go with my poweredmixer??

I want them to be as loud as possible, as some of the places our band plays at are quite big (shame there isnt many people in the places :( )

So any suggestions on what size speakers (either in wattage or size) or any specific examples :)

thanks in advance

[Aes820]

Hey guys

I currently have a Behringer Europower PMH5000 (800 watter)

I would like to know what kinda speakers would be best to buy that would go with my poweredmixer??

I want them to be as loud as possible, as some of the places our band plays at are quite big (shame there isnt many people in the places :( )

So any suggestions on what size speakers (either in wattage or size) or any specific examples :)

thanks in advance
Hi.

That mixer you've got would be rated to pump out 2 x 400 watts while through 4 ohms.

So to get the most out of it you'd want to run it through 2 x 4 ohm speakers.

The majority of speakers you can get on the market are 8 ohm speakers, but if you just run 8 ohm speakers off it then the power output may only be 2 x 200 watts or so.

So, you could get 2x 4 ohm speakers (of suitable power rating - around 400 watts).

Or alternatively, you could get 4x 8 ohm speakers. And pair the four of them them up into twos.
Because two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.

That choice is up to you, so see what's around.


But, one other big thing that you'll have to take notice of is speaker efficiency.
This is a rating that is given to speakers to indicate how good they are at converting the amps power into actual sound.
This is given in a dB reading. Something like as follows:
96dB @ 1 Watt / 1 Meter.

The more efficent the speakers the better. For the best possible performance out of your amp you'd want to buy speakers that have got the higest efficiency. Unfortuanely, the more efficent the speaker is the more expensive it will be.
But anything around the 97 - 98 dB mark would be pretty good, I reckon.

[Ozduck]

Hey

Big help thanks :D... actually understand a bit more now!

if i went the 4x8ohm speaker way.... would each of those speakers have to be 200watts?

Hi.

That mixer you've got would be rated to pump out 2 x 400 watts while through 4 ohms.

So to get the most out of it you'd want to run it through 2 x 4 ohm speakers.

The majority of speakers you can get on the market are 8 ohm speakers, but if you just run 8 ohm speakers off it then the power output may only be 2 x 200 watts or so.

So, you could get 2x 4 ohm speakers (of suitable power rating - around 400 watts).

Or alternatively, you could get 4x 8 ohm speakers. And pair the four of them them up into twos.
Because two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.

That choice is up to you, so see what's around.


But, one other big thing that you'll have to take notice of is speaker efficiency.
This is a rating that is given to speakers to indicate how good they are at converting the amps power into actual sound.
This is given in a dB reading. Something like as follows:
96dB @ 1 Watt / 1 Meter.

The more efficent the speakers the better. For the best possible performance out of your amp you'd want to buy speakers that have got the higest efficiency. Unfortuanely, the more efficent the speaker is the more expensive it will be.
But anything around the 97 - 98 dB mark would be pretty good, I reckon.

[Aes820]

if i went the 4x8ohm speaker way.... would each of those speakers have to be 200watts?
Yeah. 200 watts each.
Or round abouts.

[papercut_heart]

I posted a topic but I didn't know that this topic existed, so Ill ask questions here from now on.

So...

Well, I'm finally getting a band together, and I want to get 2 microphones and a speaker to set them up on, but I dont know what I need, so any help would be appreciated...

I want to get two Shure SM58's... and hook them up together through a Peavey PV8 Mixer (just for the 2 mics and maybe a bass) with Shure C50J Mic Cables, into a Peavy PV215 Speaker Cabinet. ALTHOUGH I wont be getting the PV8 Mixer if I get a Powered Mixer, obviously.

Also I'm not sure what I should look into, either a Power Amp or a Powered Mixer? I am just planning on powering 1 speaker, the peavey PV215, so what would be the better choice? Also, which model/power should I get? On the site, for the speaker it says "Power: 700 watts program, 1400 watts peak" So should I look for a power amp or powered mixer that puts out at least 700 watts but less than 1400? I was thinking a powered mixer since its combined into one so I dont have to have a power amp and a mixer, but I dont know.

[Ozduck]

Hi.

That mixer you've got would be rated to pump out 2 x 400 watts while through 4 ohms.

So to get the most out of it you'd want to run it through 2 x 4 ohm speakers.

The majority of speakers you can get on the market are 8 ohm speakers, but if you just run 8 ohm speakers off it then the power output may only be 2 x 200 watts or so.

So, you could get 2x 4 ohm speakers (of suitable power rating - around 400 watts).

Or alternatively, you could get 4x 8 ohm speakers. And pair the four of them them up into twos.
Because two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.

That choice is up to you, so see what's around.


But, one other big thing that you'll have to take notice of is speaker efficiency.
This is a rating that is given to speakers to indicate how good they are at converting the amps power into actual sound.
This is given in a dB reading. Something like as follows:
96dB @ 1 Watt / 1 Meter.

The more efficent the speakers the better. For the best possible performance out of your amp you'd want to buy speakers that have got the higest efficiency. Unfortuanely, the more efficent the speaker is the more expensive it will be.
But anything around the 97 - 98 dB mark would be pretty good, I reckon

Can you recommend some 400 watt 4ohm speakers?

[Ozduck]

Bump

[Aes820]

Can you recommend some 400 watt 4ohm speakers?
I think peavey make some 2x12 with a HF horn cabients which are 4 ohms and decent cabinets.
But 2x12 top boxes can be kind of bulky and a pain to transport.

I'm sure there are other cabinets around tho. Just google or ask at a local music store.

Going for big name brands like Peavey, Yamaha or JBL is easy enough tho. But there should be plenty of options open to you if you do a bit of research.

[Junknut]

Hey,
looking for a good PA and speaker package for use in practicing and maybe small gigs current setup is 2 guitarists and bassist each with 100w amps and drums,looking for a PA package for around $1300 AU.
Iv'e been looking at an Alesis 6 channel 300w,2x4 ohms with 2 x 200w speakers with mic and cables for $1299 AU on a ebay store,would this be good for what i'm after or does anyone have any other reccommandations?

[JohnRM]

Got a few questions for you guys. I'm new here, looks like you guys have got some good guys to answer questions here. :)

I'm more of a recording buff, and need some help with getting myself a PA system for my band.

Could someone configure a really good system for me. Top quality, money is no object. Just give me what would be the best in each category, and I'll worry about the price. :) I know Mackie is on my top list of recording equipment, not sure what the professional standard is for live sound.

If you could, give me everything I would need. Mixers, Wireless and Wired Microphones, Speakers, Amps, Cables, Stands, Clips, Receivers, CD Players, Tape Decks, everything! I would really appreciate if anyone could do this.

If someone really spends time at getting me this info, I'd really appreciate it. I don't have much to give, but if you need web space, I'll set you up with a killer web hosting account! :)

[UsefulIdi0t]

Quick question here. Im trying to find a PA sytem that my band can practice with. Im not sure if we'll need it for any small shows yet, but maybe... Would this be a good package for at least practicing.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630170/

I see that the mixer is 200w at 4 ohms, but i can find the ohms rating for the speakers. I would guess they are 4 ohms also because its in a package, right? Anyways, 200 watts should be loud enough for practice right?

[Aes820]

Quick question here. Im trying to find a PA sytem that my band can practice with. Im not sure if we'll need it for any small shows yet, but maybe... Would this be a good package for at least practicing.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630170/

I see that the mixer is 200w at 4 ohms, but i can find the ohms rating for the speakers. I would guess they are 4 ohms also because its in a package, right? Anyways, 200 watts should be loud enough for practice right?
Chances are those speakers are 8 ohm speakers.
There's a link to a pdf document on that page which may give you further info tho.

But regardless, that setup would be pretty good for practising.

[Aes820]

Got a few questions for you guys. I'm new here, looks like you guys have got some good guys to answer questions here. :)

I'm more of a recording buff, and need some help with getting myself a PA system for my band.

Could someone configure a really good system for me. Top quality, money is no object. Just give me what would be the best in each category, and I'll worry about the price. :) I know Mackie is on my top list of recording equipment, not sure what the professional standard is for live sound.

If you could, give me everything I would need. Mixers, Wireless and Wired Microphones, Speakers, Amps, Cables, Stands, Clips, Receivers, CD Players, Tape Decks, everything! I would really appreciate if anyone could do this.

If someone really spends time at getting me this info, I'd really appreciate it. I don't have much to give, but if you need web space, I'll set you up with a killer web hosting account! :)
What intended use do you have with this equipment.
Are you wanting to mic up an entire band, including monitors.
How big are the shows you are planning to play?. Approx how many people? And at what venues?
Will you have a dedicated 'sound guy' to run your PA for you?

[UsefulIdi0t]

Chances are those speakers are 8 ohm speakers.
There's a link to a pdf document on that page which may give you further info tho.

But regardless, that setup would be pretty good for practising.

Hmm, even though they would only be around 100 watts? If we used those on that mixer, would we not be able to turn the volume more than halfway? how do you know how many watts you're using up. Should I just save up a little more money and try and getting a little better speakers? If so, what ones would be better than those, but 300 or less for a pair?

[PremierManiac]

Could someone configure a really good system for me. Top quality, money is no object. Just give me what would be the best in each category, and I'll worry about the price. :) I know Mackie is on my top list of recording equipment, not sure what the professional standard is for live sound.

If money really is not an object this will do the trick for anyone. All gear is from Carvin (http://www.carvin.com), read the testimonials and find out for yourself just how good Carvin gear is.

2x $0599.99 TRX153 600w 8 ohm main
2x $0499.99 TRX118 800w 8 ohm subwoofer
4x $0329.99 TRX122 300w 8 ohm monitor

1x $0569.99 DCM2500 power amp (mains)
1x $0669.99 DCM2570 power amp (subs)
1x $1099.99 DCM4000 power amp (monitors)

1x $0599.99 C1644 16 channel concert mixer

---$6459.88-------------------------------

[Aes820]

If you want to biamp you'd also need an active crossover.
A seperate graphic EQ for both the FOH and the monitors.
And you'd want maybe three Compressor/limiter/gate units.
FX units may also come in handy.
Plus then the mulitcore, all the mics + mic stands. Cabeling.

I'll be able to write up a proper list once I get an idea on what you are actually planning and what types of venues you are going to be playing.

[PremierManiac]

^^ Yeah, you probably would need that but I really didn't feel like writing it all down. I really hope money is no object.

[ITendtoWeez]

Right now our band pa is crap, mainly cause we blew it out (its one of those 200 dollar kustom ones). Anyway, I was just wondering what I could get as far as powered mixers go, in the 300-400 dollar price range. Also, how about speakers in the 200-250 range.

[PremierManiac]

Please excuse me if I seem like a Carvin salesman today, I can't help it.

Don't know much about powered mixers.
Speakers: Carvin 1540, PM15. Both 400w at 8 ohms and $199.99.

[JohnRM]

If you want to biamp you'd also need an active crossover.
A seperate graphic EQ for both the FOH and the monitors.
And you'd want maybe three Compressor/limiter/gate units.
FX units may also come in handy.
Plus then the mulitcore, all the mics + mic stands. Cabeling.

I'll be able to write up a proper list once I get an idea on what you are actually planning and what types of venues you are going to be playing.

We'll be mic-ing two vocalists, and a drumset. So, an entire band. In recording, I usually mic a guitar/bass amp, but I'm guessing that might not be need when doing a show.

Mostly for smaller gigs, not big venues or anything. In town, street shows, restaurants, nothing in excess of 100 people.

We don't really have a dedicated sound guy, myself, as the drummer, normally does all the sound for recording, and I'm sure I can set everything else up myself too! :)

I also will try to use speakers and other amplifiers for DJ'ing. I have a DJ mixer that I can use, but I might be better off with a powered mixer anyway. Plus, I might also use it for some school performances. Hope that helps. :)

[Aes820]

^ In that case you won't need a big setup.
You shouldn't need to biamp and you may not even need to have a monitoring setup.
Although perhaps a couple of foldbacks for vocal reinforcement may come in handy.

Wether or not you run the guitar and bass through the PA would depend on the loudness of their own amps. You may not need to run them through the PA, provided you coordinate each band member to control their own volume levels suitably.

Brands like Peavey and Yamaha have got some packaged systems that may be what you are after. A powered mixer with plenty of headroom and features. A couple of FOH bins, stands, foldback speakers, maybe even a few mics.

This would be good:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/601415/

All you'll need then is a set of drumkit mics, and perhaps a DI box if you wish to run the bass through the PA.

[iron_lion]

hey aes, its me again. I need some advice.
We need a P.A. System that is loud enough to do decent gigs. I was thinking 1000 watts would be good, (for all the monitors and loudspeakers included). Here's what we're looking at.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630106/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600818/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/601201/

2 loud speakers and 3 or 4 monitors.

Is this a good idea and are they compatible. We're thinking about getting the monitors first, (so we can get the practice) and then get the loud speakers once we can afford.

[UsefulIdi0t]

Dah Aes I still cant find something to work. I just wanted a powered mixer and some speakers for about 400-600$. It would be nice for them to be at least 200 watts, but every mixer i find for under 350$ seems to be 4ohms and then the speakers im finding are 8 ohms, so id be losing a lot of power. I cant find a good match for a mixer and some speakers that will have an end result of more than 200 watts for band practice.

[Aes820]

hey aes, its me again. I need some advice.
We need a P.A. System that is loud enough to do decent gigs. I was thinking 1000 watts would be good, (for all the monitors and loudspeakers included). Here's what we're looking at.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/630106/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600818/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/601201/

2 loud speakers and 3 or 4 monitors.

Is this a good idea and are they compatible. We're thinking about getting the monitors first, (so we can get the practice) and then get the loud speakers once we can afford.

Those two yamaha speakers will go well with the powered mixer. They would be a good match. Go for those.
They are 8 ohm speakers, and the powered mixer is rated to pump out 500 watts a side while at 4 ohms.
So you wont be getting all of the power out of the powered mixer. But if you do need extra watts then just buy another pair of 8 ohm FOH speakers and run then in parrallel to those two Yamaha ones.
Easy.

However, the monitors will be a little different.
As you'd normally run the monitors off one of the Aux outputs of the mixer, you'll need a seperate poweramp for those monitor wedges.

What you could do is just buy a cheap 2x200 watt poweramp and run the monitors off those.
Run it like:
Mixer -> main left + right (powered) outputs of mixer -> 2x Yamaha FOH bins
Then:
Aux output 1 of mixer -> left side of seperate poweramp -> Monitor speakers.
Aux output 2 of mixer -> right side of poweramp -> other monitor speakers.

This way you can use the Aux 1 and 2 levels on the mixer to control monitor mix and volume seperate to the main outputs.

I can draw a diagram if all this doesn't make sense.

Or perhaps you could buy powered speakers to use as monitors. But generally 'good' powered speakers are expensive.

But it's up to you, and your budget.

[Aes820]

Dah Aes I still cant find something to work. I just wanted a powered mixer and some speakers for about 400-600$. It would be nice for them to be at least 200 watts, but every mixer i find for under 350$ seems to be 4ohms and then the speakers im finding are 8 ohms, so id be losing a lot of power. I cant find a good match for a mixer and some speakers that will have an end result of more than 200 watts for band practice.
Like I said above. You can run two pairs of 8 ohm speakers both in parrallel to each other, as two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.
Or, you could keep looking for decent 4 ohm speakers.

[iron_lion]

thanks again aes, you gave me an idea... always a huge help.

[UsefulIdi0t]

Like I said above. You can run two pairs of 8 ohm speakers both in parrallel to each other, as two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total.
Or, you could keep looking for decent 4 ohm speakers.

Ive been looking at a bunch of websites and every speaker ive found has been 8 ohms. I dont know if im looking at the wrong place but does anyone know of a 100-150$ 4 ohm speaker?

*edit* what about bridging? Does this involving anything more than just making 2 speakers mono? so basically you get more power when bridging or what?

[isojoe420]

Ive been looking at a bunch of websites and every speaker ive found has been 8 ohms. I dont know if im looking at the wrong place but does anyone know of a 100-150$ 4 ohm speaker?

*edit* what about bridging? Does this involving anything more than just making 2 speakers mono? so basically you get more power when bridging or what?
The dual 15 inch cabinets are 4 ohms.

[theawddone]

My friend and I just bought a pair of used Sunn O))) 210T PAs for incredibly cheap from a friend for our "band" (term used loosely, as we're just tryin to get stuff together), we know that we run the amps through these speakers, but what do we want to put vocals through to get them coming out of the speakers? I know you can run the amps right into the PAs, but do we need an amp for the vocals? If we got a mixer, and ran the mic into the mixer, and then connected the mixer to the speakers, would that work? The PA says 100w input, so I'm gonna look for a mixer with 100w... Sorry this is kind of confusing, but I am confused. Basically-what do I need to get so that I can hear a guitar/bass/vocals in these PAs?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

I have an in-ear monitor question. I currently use a PA system for only my vocals:
http://www.birdlandmusic.net/customer/product.php?productid=2076&cat=95360&page=1

The rest of the band just uses amps and the drums aren't mic'd at all. I am wanting in ears though to help me hear over them because it's been a bit of a problem and because of it being more convient and better quality i'd like to try in ears. The NADY PEM500s are what im thinking about getting, along with SHURE E2 earphones to go in it to compensate for the bad quality ones Nady makes.

Would it be a good idea to do this, even though the only thing in my in ears would be my voice? I think it'd help personally but then again if it was to block out the band I don't really see the point. I also know my PA is pretty weak and thats another thing the in ears would be a gift, and I dont have the money to pay for new speakers, and I think most floor monitors I get would be more powerful than the PA speakers themselves. Most gigs which I plan on doing will provide PA's. For any others (parties, renting out an old building for a show, practice, etc.) I think the speakers would cover it.

[meizmatt]

i have a question....

if i get active cabs, do i need a power amp....if no, what do you recommend getiin(as in active cabs or passive with a power amp)?

[meizmatt]

I have an in-ear monitor question. I currently use a PA system for only my vocals:
http://www.birdlandmusic.net/customer/product.php?productid=2076&cat=95360&page=1

The rest of the band just uses amps and the drums aren't mic'd at all. I am wanting in ears though to help me hear over them because it's been a bit of a problem and because of it being more convient and better quality i'd like to try in ears. The NADY PEM500s are what im thinking about getting, along with SHURE E2 earphones to go in it to compensate for the bad quality ones Nady makes.

Would it be a good idea to do this, even though the only thing in my in ears would be my voice? I think it'd help personally but then again if it was to block out the band I don't really see the point. I also know my PA is pretty weak and thats another thing the in ears would be a gift, and I dont have the money to pay for new speakers, and I think most floor monitors I get would be more powerful than the PA speakers themselves. Most gigs which I plan on doing will provide PA's. For any others (parties, renting out an old building for a show, practice, etc.) I think the speakers would cover it.


you might be able to use it in only one ear....im no expert, but i think that would work....sry for double post

[isojoe420]

i have a question....

if i get active cabs, do i need a power amp....if no, what do you recommend getiin(as in active cabs or passive with a power amp)?
No, you would not need a power amp to power active cabs because they have a built in power amp.

For speakers, look into brands such as Peavey, JBL, Yamaha, and Yorkville to name a few. For amps, some good brands would be Crown and QSC.

[meizmatt]

No, you would not need a power amp to power active cabs because they have a built in power amp.

For speakers, look into brands such as Peavey, JBL, Yamaha, and Yorkville to name a few. For amps, some good brands would be Crown and QSC.
what i meant was do you recommend getting active cabs or getting passive with a power amp

[isojoe420]

what i meant was do you recommend getting active cabs or getting passive with a power amp
It's all personal preference. Most people will probably say passive speakers with a power amp. I would prefer this too, mainly because of failure issues. For example with a passive/power amp system: If your power amp goes down, then you just need another power amp. Same with speakers. With active speakers, if something goes wrong you need to replace the whole thing which can be expensive.

There are some good active speakers out there. No way(active/passive) is "better" than the other.

[PremierManiac]

I too would suggest passive speakers with a power amp.

[Aes820]

I think it'll quite handy to use powered speakers as part of a monitoring setup.
An advantage of powered speakers being that because of all their inbuilt protection they are near on impossible to damage. If they are clipped too much then they'll simply turn themselves off.
And they are pretty much completly self contained, you just need a power supply and a line level signal for them from off the multi-core. You don't have to worry about their loading off the poweramp.
And because many of them are biamped they are very efficient.

If it were me I would use active speakers for the monitors. But keep with the seperate poweramp + passive cabinets for the FOH.

[isojoe420]

I think it'll quite handy to use powered speakers as part of a monitoring setup.
An advantage of powered speakers being that because of all their inbuilt protection they are near on impossible to damage. If they are clipped too much then they'll simply turn themselves off.
And they are pretty much completly self contained, you just need a power supply and a line level signal for them from off the multi-core. You don't have to worry about their loading off the poweramp.
And because many of them are biamped they are very efficient.

If it were me I would use active speakers for the monitors. But keep with the seperate poweramp + passive cabinets for the FOH.
I agree with AES. I actually use this setup. A powered mixer to power the mains, and active speakers for monitors.

Yes, powered speakers are handy and nice. They have disadvantages also. Another disadvantage AES made me think of was the line level signal. You would not want to run line level signals as far as speaker level signals are run at. Line level signals will gain alot of noise after around the 30 foot mark. They also need a power source.

[Aes820]

You would not want to run line level signals as far as speaker level signals are run at. Line level signals will gain alot of noise after around the 30 foot mark. They also need a power source.
I disagree.
You'd want it the other way around. Provided your cabeling is properly shielded and balanced, and you keep signal cables well away from the power cables, you should be able to run your line level signal cables as far as you want.
This is why you'd often use that multi-core stage snake which can often be a few hundred feet long.

You'd want to keep your speaker cabeling as short as possible.
Because say for example you're using 60 feet of speaker cable and the speaker cable has its own impedence of 1 ohm every 30 feet. That's 2 extra ohms of loading that you are taking off your poweramp. So if you are running a 4 ohm cabinet at the end of this 2 ohm cable. Then that's 6 ohms total loading off the poweramp.
You'll be wasting a massive one third of the amplifiers power.

True, line level cabeling will also have it's own internal impedence. But the difference of the 2 extra ohms ontop of the 500 ohms that a line level signal runs at will be neglidgible.

In summary. Keep your speaker cables as short as possible, position your poweramps as close as is reasonable to your speakers.

There are exceptions to this rule. Like if you are talking about a PA system at a train station or a shopping centre where your speakers can be many hundreds of feet from their poweramp. But you can use specialised poweramplifiers for this. They use what is known as balanced lines which I wont get into just now.

This theory is similar in reason as to why power companies run high voltage (low current) powerlines across states (11,000kv) and then step it down to 240 or 120 volts for where it comes into the suburbs.
Because if you run 40 amps through miles after miles of powerlines then most of it is going to be lost as heat.

[isojoe420]

I disagree.
You'd want it the other way around. Provided your cabeling is properly shielded and balanced, and you keep signal cables well away from the power cables, you should be able to run your line level signal cables as far as you want.
This is why you'd often use that multi-core stage snake which can often be a few hundred feet long.

Alot of the line level signals running on a stage aren't balanced though. Most of them are the short patch work done from rack units and power amps. But yes, you can use a DI box, TRS, and XLR cables to balance the line level signals. But alot of my equipment doesn't have TRS connections. So I have to go unbalanced.


You'd want to keep your speaker cabeling as short as possible.
Because say for example you're using 60 feet of speaker cable and the speaker cable has its own impedence of 1 ohm every 30 feet. That's 2 extra ohms of loading that you are taking off your poweramp. So if you are running a 4 ohm cabinet at the end of this 2 ohm cable. Then that's 6 ohms total loading off the poweramp.
You'll be wasting a massive one third of the amplifiers power.
Depends on the gages of cable you are using. You can run long distances with the speaker cable, but you would want to use a low gage.

[Samick]

is the such thing as a cheap combo amp style pa? i just need some thing for Rehearsal to amplifiy the vocals

[Samick]

bump

[ljump12]

whats cheap to you?

[drumass04]

I've just been asked to join a local theatre group to run lights and sound.

We are looking to get a P.A system for running sound effects etc. also we plan on having talent competitions etc which means bands.

Basically what sort of thing should we be looking at, for around £800max. I'd say we'll need about 8 channel mixer, speakers, amp, all cabling. We have 4 mics and leads, so maybe another 4.
What do you recommend?

Cheers,
Tim

[Samick]

whats cheap to you?
idk, below $400. i was really just woundering if this kind of system exist, and who make one so that i can research it my self.

[the.warmth]

If you wanna go real cheap, behringer have a 120 watt keyboard amp/PA system combo

[Samick]

If you wanna go real cheap, behringer have a 120 watt keyboard amp/PA system combo
will vocals blow that up, like they would a guitar amp?

[moaner]

will vocals blow that up, like they would a guitar amp?

nope, it has a decicated mic input.

[moaner]

I've just been asked to join a local theatre group to run lights and sound.

We are looking to get a P.A system for running sound effects etc. also we plan on having talent competitions etc which means bands.

Basically what sort of thing should we be looking at, for around £800max. I'd say we'll need about 8 channel mixer, speakers, amp, all cabling. We have 4 mics and leads, so maybe another 4.
What do you recommend?

Cheers,
Tim

I'd look at packages from Peavey, and maybe adding in an extra mixer (yamaha MG12/2 or somehting like that) for where you're micing a full drum kit.

[rocknroll1030]

Im wondering if i can get something to work for our PA

right now we have a ELECTRO-VOICE Sx200 speaker (i dont know if anyone will know what it is, but i might as well say it) and we need power/a mixer for it. the speaker handles 300W and i was wondering if i could just get a powermixer, i was looking at the Behringer PMH660M Europower Powered Mixer. we would need at least two mics and hopefully we could get a 3rd, we wouldnt need to use any instraments. if we got the power mixer, is that all we would need? is the one 300W speaker enough? do we need to get another? is that power mixer enough power for all the vocals?
as you can most likely tell, im kinda clueless about this stuff, so any help will be greatly appriciated.

heres a link to the power mixer i mentioned above if its needed http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631250/

[PremierManiac]

First of all, Behringer makes some good stuff, just stay away from their 'Euro' series. I would recommend getting another Behringer, Yamaha, or Carvin powered mixer. Second of all, getting another 300W speaker would be a good idea as you can run stereo sound through two speakers, and it would just be louder, which is also cool.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?sku=sportapac&cid=d05_1

How would that be for vocals?
I would need to run a wireless mic system into it, a wireless in ear system, and a digitech vocal board but thats all. Would that be good to cut through a band. I have a less powerful crate system now that im thinking of turning into studio monitors... this would be perfect if the sound is good because of the portability to it but I dont know the brand.

[PremierManiac]

I've had some experience with Stageworks. They're not very good. If I were in you situation I would definitely look for something better.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Is there any portable PA you would suggest under 500? It needs to be able to cut through a band and will be vocals only

[isojoe420]

Is there any portable PA you would suggest under 500? It needs to be able to cut through a band and will be vocals only
Kustom PA KPA7212 200W 7-Channel PA System (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630542/)

That might work. I use to own it. It does the job if all you are running is vocals through it.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

That looks like a pretty good set up, but something a bit more portable would be better. How does this look:
http://store.americanaudiocenter.com/naenpa.html

Im thinking of getting it for vocals only. Think it will cut through. A lot of people seem to rip Nady, but I got an in ear system today by them and the quality is quite good of the receiver so I wouldnt mind buying there stuff.

[hantge30]

Hey
Im getting into some PA stuff with my band and im curious
Ok my Mains are 2 2x15 speakers that are 1000 watts(500x2)
If i get subs and monitors
how many watts do i need for subs(ill just run a bass guitar and the bass drum threw them) and how big should the speakers be,and how many should i have.
how many watts about should my monitors be. and how big and how many
(i dont know what i will all run threw my monitors, if you could tell me what to do,that would be helpful)
for all this lets just say im running my mains a little over 3/4
oh i have a bass player,drummer,1 guitar ,4 vocals and a keyboard.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
thanks!
andrew

[PremierManiac]

Most subwoofer cabs are 1x18" and usually run about 800W.

[Aes820]

Because sub bass frequencies are omni-directional. I would reccomend bridging a seperate poweramp and running just the one sub woofer cabinet.

Bridging a single poweramp for this purpose is a good idea, to allow for a great amount of headroom needed to for these frequencies so as to help prevent clipping.
And besides the fact that stereo dynamics of sub bass frequencys are not really necessary, having a couple of subwoofer speakers in stereo in smaller sized venues can increase the chance of loss of bass responce due to phase cancellation.

Don't worry about only specifying only to run bass and the kick drum through them tho. It doesn't really work that way.
What you'd ideally do is use a crossover to split all your audio signal into different frequency ranges.
So the upper level frequencies will get set to your main poweramps then to your main speakers. Where as all lower bass frequencies get sent to this bridged poweramp then to your sub-woofer cabinet.
It is the crossover that does this splitting up and determins what goes where.

When it comes to monitors. I think one the easiest thing to do is just use powered speakers for monitors. Powered speakers are completely self contained so all you'll have to do is run a power cable to them and a line level signal (maybe off one of the Aux sends of the mixer).
But that's not the only way. You can go for a traditional monitoring setup consisting of a seperate couple of poweramps pushing a few foldback wedges and a drum fill cabinet if you so wish.

[Starship]

I don't really know much about P.A.'s.. so I'm asking if this 120w would be fine for JUST vocals, for practicing in a basement that has drums/guitars/bass?

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=kx1200&lang=eng

[isojoe420]

I don't really know much about P.A.'s.. so I'm asking if this 120w would be fine for JUST vocals, for practicing in a basement that has drums/guitars/bass?

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=kx1200&lang=eng
Should be ok for just practice.

[mmetalmilitiaa]

I just got 2 2X15" Kustom PA cabinets and a gemsound amplifier to use with my mixer. Each speaker cab. was $199 and the amp was $99... I gotta say for ~$500 it sounds really damn good. I wasn't expecting too much out of it... but it surprised me. I recomend them to anyone who is looking into buying speaker cabinets.
Here's a pic of them

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/mmetalmilitiaa/guitar/mesakustom.jpg

[PremierManiac]

Those look awesome. How powerful are the horns?

[peaveyrules]

My band uses an old Peavey 600 watt powered mixer for practices. The power amp portion of it is pretty much dying on us completely. Is it possible to hook up a higher wattage external Peavey power amp to the 600 watt powered mixer, to provide us with power?

[10571z]

hey guys i was looking at ebay and found this deal!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/PA-SYSTEM-SoundArt-Venue-Size-20-Ch-Mixer-Speakers_W0QQitemZ7381526297QQcategoryZ23785QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

i think this is awsome doesnt look like some1 will bid and i really think this is a awsome sytem any1 think so???!?!?!? any views..

it has

2 15inch speakers
2 15inch sub woofers
12 channel mixing desk
lead stands!!

[10571z]

My band uses an old Peavey 600 watt powered mixer for practices. The power amp portion of it is pretty much dying on us completely. Is it possible to hook up a higher wattage external Peavey power amp to the 600 watt powered mixer, to provide us with power?
yes run the power amp out of the line out of the mixer...

[LTJ386]

How can I maximize the amount of sound a PA produces? The PA my band uses is never loud enough to hear the vocals very clearly, even with amps on low volumes and no drums. Vocals are the only thing we are running through the PA. We have two speakers similar to these. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Speakers?sku=601389
I know those speakers could get pretty loud. We try to turn the mic volume up as much as possible until it starts feeding, but the vocals never seem to cut through. What could be the problem?

[10571z]

what kind of mixer or powered mixer or power amp do you have?!

[LTJ386]

I do not know the specific brand of the mixer, but I will find that out later. It looks very similar to this and may even be it: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Mixers?sku=634246

[LTJ386]

bump

[fuzzyhair]

okie dokie...
I want to run a bass guitar and vocals through a PA. We will proboably only need it for practice/rehearsals.
Which one, if any, would be good.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Packaged/Systems?sku=632200
or
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Packaged/Systems?sku=630130

[Nimatoad]

Hey, not too long ago my band bought a PA system with a couple speakers and mic for $200, apparently it was much more expensive but we bought it used from some friends. I was just wondering whether or not it was a good deal.. taking into consideration that we just want something basic as were not the most professional band..

We got:
Kustom Model KPM7250 (200 Watt) (http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPM7250-i316667.music)
2 Kustom KSE12 Speakers (http://www.piedog.com/musical_instruments/live_sound/kustom-kse12.htm)
1 Basic Shure SM58 Mic

So did we get a good deal for 200$? Would we need to upgrade if we were more serious? If we were to play a small show? Recording? Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks!

[Aes820]

$200 sounds like a pretty good deal for me. Considering that the gear is in good condition.

The Shure SM58s are great vocal mics, the industry standard actually.
And although Kustom PA gear is far from great quality. I don't think you can complain much for just $200.

That PA would be perfect for practising and good for running vocals through at small gigs.

[10571z]

okie dokie...
I want to run a bass guitar and vocals through a PA. We will proboably only need it for practice/rehearsals.
Which one, if any, would be good.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Packaged/Systems?sku=632200
or
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Packaged/Systems?sku=630130

Youll need somthing bigger then that... A bass amp by its self should be at least 100watts for band then you want somthing about 200 watts for vocals... look around 400 watts to be on the safe side..... STAY AWAY FROM BEHRINGER POWERED MIXING DESKS they sound and look good but lack power

[fuzzyhair]

Youll need somthing bigger then that... A bass amp by its self should be at least 100watts for band then you want somthing about 200 watts for vocals... look around 400 watts to be on the safe side..... STAY AWAY FROM BEHRINGER POWERED MIXING DESKS they sound and look good but lack power
Well can you maybe suggest me something in my price range?

[Nimatoad]

$200 sounds like a pretty good deal for me. Considering that the gear is in good condition.

The Shure SM58s are great vocal mics, the industry standard actually.
And although Kustom PA gear is far from great quality. I don't think you can complain much for just $200.

That PA would be perfect for practising and good for running vocals through at small gigs.

Thx for the comment.. what about if we were to start recording.. what would the best way be? Would the PA do the job

[Nimatoad]

I like how this thread just stops when I ask a question..:confused: :angry:

[Aes820]

The thread was never fast moving anyway..

The simplest way to record is just a line out from a mixer into a computers own soundcard.

For this purpose I would probably recomend just a stand alone mixer.
With enough channels to be able to handle everything you want it to.

If the powered mixer you're looking at has a line out maybe you could use that to record from. But it's not the most ideal thing, as the powered mixer has big speakers that make lots of noise attached to it. Which could cause problems with feedback, that you just don't need while recording.