The PA Thread

[BlinkRockr41]

Yeah i was kinda thinking the same. I was kinda worried about the Nady speakers because of their bad reviews, too, and the fender is a good quality but not a whole lot of wattage. It seems like the Kustom would be a fairly decent quality w/ ample wattage. Thanks for the help and I'm open to suggestions from other people, too.

[TheBouncingSoul]

We are badly in need of a PA. We'd like to get a kit, becuase we don't want to blow a lot of money away on a fancy PA system. We saw a Kustom kit with an 80W mixer and 2-10'' speakers for $200. For the same price, there is one from AudioChoice/SoundTech with a 100W mixer, and 2-10'' speakers. It also includes calbles and a mic. We don't really need the mic. Those are the 2 packages were looking at. We saw other ones, but we don't want to spend over $400 if possible. Any feedback would be great.

[Aes820]

Either of those packages would be suitable for practising and jamming.
Perhaps if you were wanting to get something that'll last longer, and stand up to some larger gigs (if you ever get to that stage) you may be better off investing a few more dollars. But it is up to you.

[TheBouncingSoul]

Okay, im thinking the custom cus i read some reviews of both. We really only need to run vocals and 1 guitar thru the pa. Perharps our setup will help you give me some info.
Drums -standard, no amplification needed. Hes loud.
Bass 100W amp.
Guitar 1 30W amp
guitar 2 15W amp.

we need to run 3 mics. 1 lead and 2 backup.
For mics i was going to get this berhinger 3 pack for like $60 bucks. they say its on par with the SM58 from shure.

Does that help?

[Aes820]

Mics are handy. But you'll still need mic cables.
I don't really want to make a decision for you. Get whatever suits your budget.

But with that said, I think you may be better off getting something a little bigger than that Kustom. Sure, it may be plenty enough at this stage, and it will be. But when you get to the stage of upgrading then you'll already have the PA to suit.

[TheBouncingSoul]

I have an idea of a mixer to get, but i don't know what speakers or monitors to get with that, with the handling of watts, ohms, and such. I'll ask around. Thanks Aes.

[Aes820]

Just match the ohms and the power handling as bet you can. And you'll be right.

[TheBouncingSoul]

Thanks again Aes. If it weren't for you, I'd be lost.

[shrunkenhead145]

Hello everybody, I am a singer for a four-piece band. We play mostly classic rock and blues. My guitarist and I have been practicing together for a little while now, but we're getting together with the rest of the band (bassist, drummer, maybe keyboard) and I need to buy a PA system that will hold up.

We're not concerned with gigging at the moment, but enough power to handle small gigs would be ideal. The system would be used primarily for rehersal. As a high school kid I'm not rich, and I only have about $800 to spend on everything.

The system I was thinking about was:

- Behringer Europower PMX660M powered mixer
- 2 Peavy PR 15 2-way cabinets

Is that all I would need, or do I need monitors or something? I'm pretty new to all this sound stuff, so I'm not really sure what I'm talking about :-) . I would really appreciate any advice, opinions, suggestions, etc. you guys could give me.

I would really appreciate any help, thanks a lot!

[Aes820]

I'd reccomend going for a packaged setup. Where you get stuff like mics, speaker stands and cables also included.

But yeah, that powered mixer you mentioned should do the job. And alot of newer models like those allow for splitting so you can dedicate half of it for monitors.. Even tho you may not need monitors at this stage, it'll be handy to have it if you ever get to the stage of upgrading in the future...

I think a setup like this would be the way to go.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630544/

It need not be exactally that, or exactally that brand.
Perhaps if you ask at a local music store, and tell them what you are looking for in a packaged setup. They may be able to do you a good deal.

[moaner]

Aes, is it possible for a lead to become microphonic? I have a guiar lead that, when brushed gainst a hard floor, makes a quite audible noise that I would think sounds like a lead brushing against the floor would, through my amp. Its not a cheap lead either. any ideas?

[Aes820]

The lead may have been damaged by people walking on it continually. Leads shouldn't make noise.

[moaner]

The lead may have been damaged by people walking on it continually. Leads shouldn't make noise.

that sounds more than likely.

thanks.

[iron_lion]

Hey Aes820,
It's me again, a P.A. noob asking you another question. Okay, as you may have remembered, I posted earlier some questions about a 2x200 watt p.a. system consisting of two 200 watt kustom speakers and an alesis mixer and a 400 watt power amp. Anyway, we're having bad feedback, but thats because of $10 dollar radio shack mics, but that is entirely irrelevant. My problem is, when we go live, we have no monitors to hear ourselves and I don't feel like having to spend 300 bucks on a new power amp (and a speaker) so I'm asking for a solution. My questions: A powered speaker already has wattage power right? Can we use a powered speaker and run it from one of the out's from one of the kustom speakers? If not, what do you suggest we do. I've been eyeballing this 100 watt powered speaker at musicians friend http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601713/ and am wondering if I'm on the right track. Thank you for your help.



http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601713/

[iron_lion]

Hey Aes820,
It's me again, a P.A. noob asking you another question. Okay, as you may have remembered, I posted earlier some questions about a 2x200 watt p.a. system consisting of two 200 watt kustom speakers and an alesis mixer and a 400 watt power amp. Anyway, we're having bad feedback, but thats because of $10 dollar radio shack mics, but that is entirely irrelevant. My problem is, when we go live, we have no monitors to hear ourselves and I don't feel like having to spend 300 bucks on a new power amp (and a speaker) so I'm asking for a solution. My questions: A powered speaker already has wattage power right? Can we use a powered speaker and run it from one of the out's from one of the kustom speakers? If not, what do you suggest we do. I've been eyeballing this 100 watt powered speaker at musicians friend http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601713/ and am wondering if I'm on the right track. Thank you for your help.

[iron_lion]

sorry about the double post... :(

[Aes820]

Yes. Powered speakers have built in amplifiers.

You can buy a couple of them, and run them off the 'line-out' of your powered mixer.
Do not run them off the main Kustom speakers you've already got.

Adjust their volume by adjusting the powered mixers line-out volume level. So you can set them independant of the main speakers.

They should be daisy chainable, so you can connect one up to the other in a line. You can have up to as many as you want, or can afford.

The good thing about powered speakers is that they are usually 'biamped'. which means they split your signal into highs and lows and amplify each seperately.
This means that these speakers can be much more efficient than they would otherwise.
Hence their ability to push up to 109dB. Where you may otherwise be struggling to get 103dB out of a similar non-biamped setup.

Powered speakers are very handy to use as add ons. They can sometimes be outrightly expensive, but they are simple to use and very much worth it.
But, as always, watch for clipping.
Hopefully those speakers would have peak or clip indicators on them.
You should make sure that these peak light never light up, otherwise you may risk damage to the speaker cone.

[iron_lion]

thanks again Aes820

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

AES,

Heres what I need stuff to power:
An ELECTRO VOICE RE2 WIRELESS MIC SYSTEM
Core Hot Spot Powered PA Vocal Monitor
1 SHURE SM58 Wired Mic for back up
In Ear System

OPTIONAL
Bass, 2 guitars, drums

Heres what im looking at could you tell me if any of this stuff will work and if it will power any of the optional stuff, AND if I need anything else?

MIXER:
These 3 are in my price range:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631231/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631229/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/634264/



Power Amps
I know nothing about them. Could you give me a link to the absolute cheapest one you can find that would do the job? Thank you

[Aes820]

I'll reccomend the first mixer out of those options.
This one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631231/
It's got more than enough inputs for what you need. (although may be stretched if you ever want to get to a stage of micing the drums).
And it's got several auxillery outputs so you can run those in-ear and wedge monitors off it easilly enough. As well as the added advantages of the built in FX.

For a poweramp, may I suggest this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=amps/search/detail/base_pid/480696/
2x 500 watts or so while at 4 ohms, should be enough for some medium 'pub' sized gigs.

Then, the speakers. Something like these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601388/

[FenderSRX]

Can someone tell if this pa is any good for practicing in a band with. We dont really play loud since my dad is always home when we play, and Im not planning on using it to play out with unless have to. I just wanna if I can practice with it, like have it so the band I play with can play along with a song if I hooked it up to a cd player, or how well it would do for a gig. I dont have a lot of money so if you could suggest some other ones that are btter for the money it would be really appreiciated.

http://www.music123.com/SoundTech-S20-i131742.music

Thanks a lot guys.

[theabstract]

k, i have a mixer, so i'm gunna get a power amp and speakers...how would the following sound?

http://www.behringer.com/EP1500/index.cfm?lang=ENG

and

http://www.venuemusic.com.au/Products.asp?ProdID=5441

thankyou

[Aes820]

Can someone tell if this pa is any good for practicing in a band with. We dont really play loud since my dad is always home when we play, and Im not planning on using it to play out with unless have to. I just wanna if I can practice with it, like have it so the band I play with can play along with a song if I hooked it up to a cd player, or how well it would do for a gig. I dont have a lot of money so if you could suggest some other ones that are btter for the money it would be really appreiciated.

http://www.music123.com/SoundTech-S20-i131742.music

Thanks a lot guys.
That'll be plently for practising at home. It should be fine for jamming and perhaps even some small (house party) sized gigs.
Obviously, it is only a cheap model. But it is good if you are on a tight budget. And should be more than enough to do the job.

[Aes820]

k, i have a mixer, so i'm gunna get a power amp and speakers...how would the following sound?

http://www.behringer.com/EP1500/index.cfm?lang=ENG

and

http://www.venuemusic.com.au/Products.asp?ProdID=5441

thankyou

It should be alright. I'm guessing those speakers are 8 ohms each. and you may get 2x 300 watts or so out of that poweramp. So you will be overpowering you speakers slightly. So just keep your mixers volume down so as to not damage the speakers.

But. I think it may be a better idea to look for some more suitably matched speakers. Something that can handle the power from the amp better.

Or, you could get another set of speakers and run them in parrallel with those other ones you are looking at.
While doing it this way, If both sets of speakers are 8 ohms, then this will reduce your ohm loading down to 4 ohms. So you will not only get an increase in power output from the amp, but with the added speaker area you will also get more overall loudness out of that setup.

Just make sure you choose speaker cabinets with a power handling suitable for the power that is supplied from the poweramp. While baring in mind how loud you are going to be running the setup.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Aes,
Need your help really quick again. I am looking at buying this. Please tell me if this is all compatiable and if this would power my wireless mic, in ears, and monitor, and if it would work for anything else. Thanks

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=32737&TempID=4&STRID=203547&Method=3&CategoryID=1015&BrandID=0&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=5&DepartmentKeeper=5&pagesize=10&SortMethod=3&Word1=&Contains=&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=nonetodaythanks

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631229/

[Aes820]

That one is very similar to the one you posted above, it has a couple less inputs and a couple less features. But it still should be plently for what you need it to do.

You wont have enough channels to mic up drums + guitar tho. But it will be plenty for what you mentioned above.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Ok thanks a lot

[Nightvision]

Right, a question I hope will be relatively easy to answer...

My band is now trialling singers, and since we've never had cause to use mics yet, we're going to have a problem on thursday when we come to test out the singer...

Now, with my last band, we figured that with a cheap mic and an old 10W amp, it was perfectly possible to use that as a 'cheat' P.A.

Now I know that might not do the amp a whole lot of good, and probably won't sound ace, but excluding buying a PA (for £180 absolute minimum this close to christmas? You're having a laugh....) are there any other options at all?

[moaner]

see if you can get hold of a keyboard amp, those are often used for convininent PAs.

[moaner]

I'm thinking of getting a behringer v-amp. The cab modelling is meant to be really good, and since I'm no tonehwore and can't afford a tube amp really, I figured I might see about having my normal setup straight to PA. however, I still want somehting to jam with, so i need somehting to amp it. Would it be practical to use a standard stage monitor as a cheap all enclosed amp for jamming, backyard sized gigs, playing around at parties and the like? I know monitors only spread he sound around 10 m or so, but that suits me fine- anywhere bigger than that would be using full PA anyway. If you put a monitor on its side, does it project the sound outwards better?

Alternatively, i might be able to get hold of a cheap PA anyway. Do 10" speakers give sufficient bass response for guitar?

[Aes820]

You can run a V-amp through any setup you wish.
If you just want to practise or jam with it through a monitor wedge then you'd want to either have a poweramp between the V amp and the wedge, or use a powered speaker.
Running it direct to your bands PA would probably be better anyway.

10" speakers are fine. I got one in my Mesa Combo.
Most 10" speakers can handle down to 100Hz efficiently. Which is plenty for guitar.

[moaner]

thanks, thats great

[metallicanirvana666]

I NEED HELP.
I'm in a band, and we have this POS small guitar amp that isn't really doing it's job. I got a good break in money this year, got the guitar stuff I needed, and since I'm the un-announced "leader", I decided I need to improve our vocal department. What do I need to make it louder? I don't want to go buy a new guitar amp to do it. I looked at PA packages, and many of them that are in the $500 price range got bad reviews. Do I just need a monitor, a subwoofer, or whatever? This will only be temporary but I just need to know what I need to make this better. Thanks.

*EDIT*:
I figured I'd show you our setup just in case.
Drums-No amplification needed
Guitar I-120W amp
Guitar II-120W amp
Bass-30W amp(he's getting a new one soon)
Vocals-10W amp
^that's what need's to be fixed, a 10 W guitar amp when I need a PA. :confused: looking at this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630426

[alan1990]

my band has just started looking into geting a pa. we have 2 guitarists, a bassist and a drumer.i have seen a nady power amp for 170 us dolars and also some cheap speakers under a hundrd dolars. so my question is would this amp work and are these cheap speakers good enough untill we can get some more cash

were realy tight on cash and allready have a decent peavy mixer

thanks for any help

[moaner]

my band has just started looking into geting a pa. we have 2 guitarists, a bassist and a drumer.i have seen a nady power amp for 170 us dolars and also some cheap speakers under a hundrd dolars. so my question is would this amp work and are these cheap speakers good enough untill we can get some more cash

were realy tight on cash and allready have a decent peavy mixer

thanks for any help

sounds fine, although watch the wattage of your amp compared to your speakers- for under $100 for a pair of speakers (£70?) you're unlikely to be getting a great deal.

[moaner]

I NEED HELP.
I'm in a band, and we have this POS small guitar amp that isn't really doing it's job. I got a good break in money this year, got the guitar stuff I needed, and since I'm the un-announced "leader", I decided I need to improve our vocal department. What do I need to make it louder? I don't want to go buy a new guitar amp to do it. I looked at PA packages, and many of them that are in the $500 price range got bad reviews. Do I just need a monitor, a subwoofer, or whatever? This will only be temporary but I just need to know what I need to make this better. Thanks.

*EDIT*:
I figured I'd show you our setup just in case.
Drums-No amplification needed
Guitar I-120W amp
Guitar II-120W amp
Bass-30W amp(he's getting a new one soon)
Vocals-10W amp
^that's what need's to be fixed, a 10 W guitar amp when I need a PA. :confused: looking at this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630426

for that much, you would want more channels. You could get a lot more for $400, i think. try behringer or peavey powered mixers and lok at behringer and peavey speakers. In the future you may find yourselves wanting to mic up amps and drums, and you'll really appreciate the extra channels and wattage.

If you're short on cash look for the $200 Kustom 4 channel 80w package, it will do you great for now and when you upgrade you can use it for monitoring.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

AES820,
heres what I wound up with...
2 crate audio s10 speakers as my pa speakers and a
crate CRM42P stero mixer for the speakers

How good is this for vocal use only? Is it good enough to plug instruments into as well? Let me know thanks

[moaner]

AES820,
heres what I wound up with...
2 crate audio s10 speakers as my pa speakers and a
crate CRM42P stero mixer for the speakers

How good is this for vocal use only? Is it good enough to plug instruments into as well? Let me know thanks

turns out your mixer doesn't seem to exist, could you post a link to a picture/some info?

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

Moaner, hmmm looks like I wrote down the wrong letters.
http://www.crateaudio.com/products/stereo_mini_mixers/CMX42P.html

[moaner]

Moaner, hmmm looks like I wrote down the wrong letters.
http://www.crateaudio.com/products/stereo_mini_mixers/CMX42P.html

yeah, you can plug 4 mics into that, which i'm guessing would be lead vocals, backing vocals and 2 guitar amps. Into the line ins, you should plug the bassist's amps line out, and if your drummer wants micing up, the output from the drum mic mixer (most amateur mixers have insufficient inputs to think about micing the drums in the same mixer. Unless you got one of these:

http://www.behringer.com//SL3242FX-PRO/SL3242FX_big.jpg

[Aes820]

AES820,
heres what I wound up with...
2 crate audio s10 speakers as my pa speakers and a
crate CRM42P stero mixer for the speakers

How good is this for vocal use only? Is it good enough to plug instruments into as well? Let me know thanks
I dont think those speakers have built in poweramps.
You'll need a seperate poweramp to go inbetween the mixer and the speakers.

But that mixer would be fine for a few vocal mics.

Running signals direct from the amps line outputs into that mixer will work. But it doesn't give the best sounding results. It is accecptable to take a line out from the amp into the mixer, but for the best sounding results you'd want to Mic up the cabinets and DI the bass.
You wont have enough inputs to mic up a drum kit. You may want to piggy back another mixer ontop of it for that.

[Screamin_Demon_Auz]

AES,
I hate to bug the crap out of you but I really have no idea what i'm doing right now with these, and i've read the manual several times and I don't really understand it so im hoping you could maybe put these things into simple terms for me.

First I set up my wireless and got it into the mixer. My mic cabels are all at the house I practice at so all I could use today is a cheap guitar cord which may contribute to the problem.

I got it all working and after a little work I got sound coming from both speakers. However heres the problem:
I started singing, and it was just too quiet. I could hear the resonance of my singing in my head more than I could coming through the speakers(they're sitting on the floor right now because I dont have the money for stands), so I just started turning up all the nobs in mono 1 that I have the mic plugged in.

The only time it really made a difference is when i turned up the gain all the way, or level all the way. However, that cause a rattling in my speaker, and the leds on the far right under the logo started glowing and going up to about -4(I dont even know what this means).

I guess all im asking is how do I get the volume im wanting from this without having turn the gain or level up all the way and setting the leds off and causing a distorted sound. Is it just that I need to use my mic cable instead of a cheap cord? Is it something where I need to turn up the gain in the mic itself? Do I need a mic preamp?

[Aes820]

No.
You need a poweramp do go in between the mixers outputs and the speakers inputs.

Buy a poweramp with a suitable power output for the rated power handeling of those speakers.

So, if those speakers are 200 watts at 8 ohms each..
Then a 2x400 watt at 4 ohm poweramp would be suitable.
Look on Ebay.

Red lights glowing means that you are experiencing clipping. And it is a bad thing.
It sounds bad and too much of it can burn out speakers.

[moaner]

aes, I know that using a mic into a guitar or bass amp messes it up over time, ad i know that using a PA is better. But my vocalist freind has only £130 as a very limit, and can't get any morte money. To put that in perspective, a cheap 80w 4 channel PA over here costs around £180-190. so, i told him that since its only for practises, he may awell buy a cheap guitar amp for £50 and save up for a real PA. Thing is, i remember that Bass amps are extremely neutral and though they might be best for vocals. However, my friend has a very high voice. Which would be better for him to use as a short term amp for practises- bass or guitar amp?

[BlinkRockr41]

Hey I've got a few questions. My band finally is about to purchase some PA equipment. We're buying the Behringer UB1202 Mixer, a Gem Sound XP-350 Power Amp (look on Musician's Friend) and 2 Kustom KSC15 2-Way 15" PA Speaker Cabinets. My question is about the cables connecting them. You would just use two regular 1/4" speaker cables to connect the power amp to the speakers, right? What are the speakon and banana cables for? And also, would you use a 1/4" speaker cable or an instrument cable to connect the mixer to the power amp? Oh, one more thing. This is probably a stupid question but i just want to be sure. There's 1 cable going from the mixer to the power amp and 1 from the power amp to each of the speakers, right? Thanks for the help

[Aes820]

aes, I know that using a mic into a guitar or bass amp messes it up over time, ad i know that using a PA is better. But my vocalist freind has only £130 as a very limit, and can't get any morte money. To put that in perspective, a cheap 80w 4 channel PA over here costs around £180-190. so, i told him that since its only for practises, he may awell buy a cheap guitar amp for £50 and save up for a real PA. Thing is, i remember that Bass amps are extremely neutral and though they might be best for vocals. However, my friend has a very high voice. Which would be better for him to use as a short term amp for practises- bass or guitar amp?
Yeah. Just use a little sh!tty bass amp for the time being. It will eventually be ruined. But it should last several months at least.

[Aes820]

Hey I've got a few questions. My band finally is about to purchase some PA equipment. We're buying the Behringer UB1202 Mixer, a Gem Sound XP-350 Power Amp (look on Musician's Friend) and 2 Kustom KSC15 2-Way 15" PA Speaker Cabinets. My question is about the cables connecting them. You would just use two regular 1/4" speaker cables to connect the power amp to the speakers, right? What are the speakon and banana cables for? And also, would you use a 1/4" speaker cable or an instrument cable to connect the mixer to the power amp? Oh, one more thing. This is probably a stupid question but i just want to be sure. There's 1 cable going from the mixer to the power amp and 1 from the power amp to each of the speakers, right? Thanks for the help
On the top of the mixer there will be two 1/4" sockets labeled 'Main Out' Left and Right. Connect both of these to both of the Left and Right inputs on the back of the power amp.
It says on Musician's Friend that that poweramp takes either RCA or XLR inputs. So you'll need to get yourself some cables with 1/4" plugs on one end and Male XLR plugs on the other.
You could just get a couple of microphone cables, cut off the female ends and solder on some 1/4" plugs if you wish. Bridging pins 1 and 3 to the sleve of a Mono 1/4" plug.
Or ask at a local music shop if they have any in stock, or if they can make you some up.

Use two 1/4" speaker cables to connect between the poweramp and the speakers. From both the left and right outputs on the poweramp to their respective speakers.

The use of binding posts are for more permanent installations. Where you can screw the speaker wires in nice and tight and not have to worry about them coming loose.

Banana plugs can be plugged into the hole in the middle of each of the binding posts. They are just a differnt type of connector. However I am not the biggest fan of those, because they can be pulled out easilly.

Speakon connectors are a type of connector made by Neutrick. They are extremely good quality. They are pretty much impossible to accidentally pull out. They can handle up to 5000 watts each and they can also handle connections for speakers that can be bi or even tri amped.
They are really only normally found on higher end and/or higher powered pieces of equipment.

[BlinkRockr41]

Thanks for the help. So I would need something like this: Horizon Hi-Z 1/4 Inch M-XLR M Cable (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/336122/)?

[BlinkRockr41]

Thanks for the help. So I would need something like this: Horizon Hi-Z 1/4 Inch M-XLR M Cable (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/336122/)?

[Aes820]

Thanks for the help. So I would need something like this: Horizon Hi-Z 1/4 Inch M-XLR M Cable (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/336122/)?
Yeah. Get a couple of those.

And also, use good quality speaker cable. Like this stuff:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/330050/

[BlinkRockr41]

Well I just received my Behringer UB1202 mixer today and I've got a few questions. There are two 1/4" outputs labelled CTRL ROOM OUT, aren't those monitor outs? And I was looking at some specifications on the website earlier and all of the 1/4" inputs were reffered to as 1/4" TRS. What does the TRS mean? I have seen cables on Musician's Friend as XLR - 1/4" and XLR - TRS. What is the difference between the two and is one better than the other? Thanks once again for the help

[moaner]

I have a feeling TRS are balanced 1/4" jacks, aes is likely to know. Although I often see mixers that can take balanced 1/4" jacks, I've never seen a sound source that uses them, which is odd.

[BlinkRockr41]

Well if that is so, then what does balanced and unbalanced mean? And you didn't answer my question about the two 1/4" jacks labelled CTRL ROOM OUT.

[moaner]

Well if that is so, then what does balanced and unbalanced mean? And you didn't answer my question about the two 1/4" jacks labelled CTRL ROOM OUT.

oooh, I am sorry.

I'm sure those will be normal line outs for monitoring. I can't think what else they'll be, and in a studio, the control room is where the monitoring would need to go. Although I can't really see any studios big enough to have a control room using 7 channel £60 behringer mixers, somehow.

"Balanced" leads allow 2 connected peices of equiptment to share the same earth, reducing hum. Or something along those lines. In breif, its just better, because it reduces hum.

[Aes820]

The Control room out is for connecting up something like Studio Monitors. For the monitoring of the Mixers signal by the mixers operator. Like if the mixer is located in a sealed off sound proof booth, like in a recording Studio.
You'll get the same signal out of the control room outs as you would out of the headphone jack.

TRS conenctors are 1/4" connectors (TRS stands for Tip, Ring, Sleeve). And they've got three wires in them for use with stereo sources or balanced equipment.
As apposed to the TS (Tip, Sleeve) 1/4" Connectors. Which are used for mono signals or unbalanced signal sources.

Look at a TRS connector, you'll see two little black bands around it seperating the Tip, the Ring and the Sleeve. The TS conenctor will only have one little black band seperating the Tip from the Sleeve.

And yes. Moaner is correct in saying that Balanced equipment shares a common ground. If you've got a common grounding point you can eleminate the risk of noise. Especially in larger PA setups. Among other things.

[BlinkRockr41]

Ok but can the CTRL ROOM OUT's still be used for monitoring in a live situation if I hooked up another power amp inbetween? And for the TRS cables, would it be better to buy TRS cables instead of TS to go between the mixer and the power amp? Or is it that necessary?

[Aes820]

Yes, You could use the control room outputs for monitoring in a live situation.
Use the control room / headphones volume knob to control monitor loudness.

But I would reccomend you run monitors of the FX send instead. Connect the FX send on the mixer to your monitoring setup. And use each channels FX level to set your desired monitoring mix.
I believe the FX sends on these mixers are Pre-fader. Meaning that if you turn up/down the main output slider, then the monitor mix level will not also be affected. Like it would if you were monitoring off the Control room outputs.

The Main outputs on the 1202 Mixers are unbalanced. There will be no point in using balanced 1/4" connectors with it.

[BlinkRockr41]

Alright thanks. In the instructions, though, it says under FX SEND "The post-fader FX signal you created using the input channel FX controls is sent to the effects unit via the FX SEND output.", so I guess that means its post fader and there would be no advantage to using the FX SEND for monitoring as opposed to the CTRL OUT's. But if I'm wrong and we were to used the FX SEND for monitoring, we're hooking up 2 mics and later on probably a guitar and bass amp, and we want two seperate monitors, one for me the guitarist, and the other for our bassist. So, would we just hook up the mixer to one of the inputs of the power amp and then run two monitors from it or would we need some sort of splitter to run the mixer to each of the power amp's channels?

[Aes820]

Oh. So those FX sends are Post-Fader? That's a shame.
In that case, yes, just use the control room outputs if you wish.

With regards to only having the one FX send, but a two channel poweramp for the monitors. What you'd normally do in that case is either 'bridge' that poweramp for mono operation. Or use a splitter.

[CrazyDrummer09]

Is There anyway to use a mixer as a preamp if it doesnt have preouts?

[Aes820]

You mean use one channel of a mixer as it's own preamp seperate from the rest of the mixers channels?

Yeah.
If the mixer has an Aux output that is pre-fader. You can run the channels volume down (so its not in the main mix) and just use this Aux output for your signal.
Or if the Mixer has an Alt Bus. Which can be assigned for each channel. You could use this.

The Behringer 1204FX PRO has got both a pre-fader Aux send and an Alt Bus.

Some other (bigger) mixers may have an insert path for each channel. That you could be able to mute the return of.

[CrazyDrummer09]

Yeah I think thats what I mean, I want to use a mixer as a pre amp for a power amp, but it doesnt have pre outs. So i think you might have just answered my question, but is there another way.

[CrazyDrummer09]

the mixer i am talking about is the Kustom 80 Watt Mixer

[Aes820]

the mixer i am talking about is the Kustom 80 Watt Mixer
In that case. No.

If the mixer has a line out (which i think it does) then you could be able to run this into other equipment. But you still must always have the Kustoms speakers attached to it.

Why not just sell the Custom and buy a cheap little Behringer or Yamaha Mixer for the poweramp instead. It'll be a whole lot more suitable.

[moaner]

Why not just sell the Custom and buy a cheap little Behringer or Yamaha Mixer for the poweramp instead. It'll be a whole lot more suitable.

Yeah, they're really good value.

[moaner]

aes, you know how using a mic into an amp damages it...

Well, is that because a mic is 600OHM and a guitar is >1MOhm? Because I just thought, some amps have CD inputs, so must b able to handle vocals. Its just I figured you could plug a mixer into the CD input of an amp and it wouldn't damage it.

[Aes820]

The impedence mismatch may have something to do with it.
But I think it is the fact that the input stages of amps can eventually be damaged because of being constantly overdriven by the mic signal.
The input stages of guitar amps are meant to handle the signal from guitar pickups.
Like how extremely high gain settings on distortion pedals can also eventually kill the input stages of the amp.

[BlinkRockr41]

Oh. So those FX sends are Post-Fader? That's a shame.
In that case, yes, just use the control room outputs if you wish.

With regards to only having the one FX send, but a two channel poweramp for the monitors. What you'd normally do in that case is either 'bridge' that poweramp for mono operation. Or use a splitter.Thank you very much Aes820. I think all my question have been answered and you've been alot of help.

[moaner]

Thank you very much Aes820. I think all my question have been answered and you've been alot of help.

seriously, 50p says you coulnd't think of a single thing about PAs or amps that he doesn't know.

[BlinkRockr41]

Yep. The Nady 850 Looks pretty good to me.

Now. With regards to poweramps just some general advice.
1. NEVER run them without speakers (or a load) attached.
2. Don't bridge them unless you are certain you've got the loading and wattage for the speakers correct.
3. Run the volume of the poweramp up nearly all the way, all the time. Turn it up full then turn it down just slightly if it is too noisy while up full. Use the output level on the mixer to control overall volume.
Dont have the output level on the mixer all the way up while only having the poweramps volume down low, this is an incorrect gain structure and you can experience some major problems with clipping (which can burn out your speakers).
Turn up the poweramp and leave it up. Use your mixers levels to control your overall volume.Hey I was looking through some old posts and I found this. I thought I had read in my Behringer manual that you always want your signal to peak at 0db, so I assumed you set your mixer to be loud enough to get to 0db, but never go over, then set the power amp level according to how loud you want everything, am I wrong about that? Is your signal just never supposed to go over 0db and it doesn't matter if it's way under? You also said in the "What is db?" thread that you always try and set your signal between -3db and 0db? So how is it supposed to be? Also, could you give me a more detailed sort of guide about setting up a pa, like if there's certain order to turn things on. (My band has a seperate mixer, power amp, and speakers if that makes a difference). And one other thing, in another post this guy had two 100W RMS speakers at 8 ohms. And you recommended a 2x100 watt at 8 ohm poweramp or a 2x200watt at 4 ohm poweramp. I was under the impression that if you had two 100W 8ohm speakers hooked up in parallel, the most each speaker could receive was 100W. So if speakers are wired in parallel, the wattage being put into them can be doubled? I know its alot of questions, but thanks for the help.

[Aes820]

0dB and above is the point where equpment clips.
You should ideally try to set your signal to as close as possible to this 0dB limit without ever peaking over for recording. As you'll ensure the best possible recording quality.

With regards to PAs. Adjust each channels input gain so that is never peaks over this 0dB limit, like said above.
And then use the mixers main output slider to control overall loudness, (not the volume knobs on the poweramp).

If you are loud enough with just having the mixers main output sliders up quarter of the way. Then that's all well and good, that's all you'll need.

If you slide the main output sliders nearly all the way up, so your signal occasionally peaks. Then when it does peak it will be sending a clipped signal to your poweramp and this will introduce an unpleaseant sounding distortion. Too much of it can even damage your equipment.

[BlinkRockr41]

Alright thanks, but I don't think you answered all of my questions. In another post this guy had two 100W RMS speakers at 8 ohms. And you recommended a 2x100 watt at 8 ohm poweramp or a 2x200watt at 4 ohm poweramp. I was under the impression that if you had two 100W 8ohm speakers hooked up in parallel, the most each speaker could receive was 100W. So if speakers are wired in parallel, the wattage being put into them can be doubled? And is there any more specific things I need to know about what to do and what not to do while setting up a PA?

[Aes820]

Well. think of it like this: You are doing sound at a gig, controlling the mixer. It is right in front of you. But the poweramps are right up the other end of the room, next to the stage. If you want the band to be a little louder you'll have to get up and walk all the way over to the stage, where the poweramps are, and then turn them up there. A much simpler way of making the whole band louder would be just have the poweramps volumes up nearly all thew way all the time, and slide the main output slider on the mixer up a bit.
This is generally how it is done, for reasons of simplicity.

There are other reasons too. On account of the whole clipping thing, if a rogue sine wave gets through and clips over this 0dB limit, then you will get distortion. Because, you can't predict what the person on the stage is going to do.
Say you set their levels suitable for a normal singer and the gig is going well. But suddenly the singer decides that they want to bring the mic right up to their face and give it a huge death-metal like growl. You dont have time to react to this and suddenly you've got red 'clipping' lights flashing up all over the place. This doesn't sound good.

You'd want to set your levels appropriately, so you'll always have enough headroom to do the job and to eliminate the risk of unwanted distortion due to clipping.


I reccomend a 200 watt at 4 ohm poweramp in that instance. Because running an 8 ohm speaker off a poweramp rated at 4 ohms will give you a slightly reduced output power. If the poweramp was rated to pump out 200 watts per channel at 4 ohms. Then it may only be able to pump out 100 or 120 watts or so per channel while at 8 ohms.

And, I mean, per channel. Most poweramps are stereo, meaning they have a left and right channel. You'd run each channel into its own respective speakers.
You can bridge some poweramps, to convert the left and right channels into the one single channel. But this is a little more complex. I should have coverd bridging poweramps somewhere else in this thread. Although I wouldnt reccomed you worry about it for now.

When you combine additional speakers together, regardless of if they are in parrallel or series, you combine each of their rated power dissipating rating to claculate their new rating. Remembering to take into account their impedence and the loading they'll have on the poweramp.
So, two 100 watt 8 ohm speakers wire together in parrallel will be like one 4 ohm 200 watt speaker.

[BlinkRockr41]

Ok I think I get it. I've got a few more questions, though. How do you wire speakers in parallel? Is there just another output on the speaker that goes between two of them? We just got two squier loudspeakers that are 300W RMS. If they can be wired in parallel, then the biggest power amp we could get would be 2x600W @ 4 ohms, right? Also, you've said before that you should buy a power amp w/ a little more wattage than the speakers so clipping doesn't happen. Is there a certain percent that the power amp is supposed to be over the speakers? Basically, I'm trying to figure out the right size power amp to get the most volume from our speakers and the right amount of headroom, and they only have one input so if there's a seperate one you have to have for parallel, we can't do it. But please tell me what size would be right for both if we could and couldn't wire in parallel. Thanks for the help.

[10571z]

im so happy today i bought my first ever pa (well our band did) its a jade 150 watt powered mixer and 2 jade 75 watt speakers so it suit our band well. i paid 300 australian so im happy

[dRvthruRkr]

Yea I'm the wreck that started the live sound thread. God knows I need help. I just need the bare minimum for a live show if you guys could let me know what i need and an idea of good quality item that wont cost me a million dollars that would be huge. Thank YOU!

[Aes820]

Yea I'm the wreck that started the live sound thread. God knows I need help. I just need the bare minimum for a live show if you guys could let me know what i need and an idea of good quality item that wont cost me a million dollars that would be huge. Thank YOU!
As mentioned before in this thread: Have a look on Musiciansfriend, or around in local music stores for Packaged PA Setups.
Where you get a Powered Mixer and a couple of speakers all in one package.

[dRvthruRkr]

I sure will, thank you

[iron_lion]

Its time for a p.a. upgrade.

I was wondering if I could just buy another power amp instead of having to replace the one I have now with a bigger one, meaning I could use them at the same time. Is there a way to use multiple power amps to get more power? If so how?

[moaner]

Its time for a p.a. upgrade.

I was wondering if I could just buy another power amp instead of having to replace the one I have now with a bigger one, meaning I could use them at the same time. Is there a way to use multiple power amps to get more power? If so how?

we'd need to know your current setup. Chances are if you need more volume you also need bigger speakers, at whoich point a full new system would probably be better anyway, for the extra channels.

[iron_lion]

Okay, I have 2 200 watt Kustom Speakers, a mixer with 8 inputs, and 1 400 watt power amp, i was wondering if I could buy for example, 2 100 watt monitors or something, would i have to buy a 600 watt power amp, or could i buy a 200 watt power amp and like run one power amp to the other and have them like combine power, or something.

[moaner]

Okay, I have 2 200 watt Kustom Speakers, a mixer with 8 inputs, and 1 400 watt power amp, i was wondering if I could buy for example, 2 100 watt monitors or something, would i have to buy a 600 watt power amp, or could i buy a 200 watt power amp and like run one power amp to the other and have them like combine power, or something.

You could use your current speakers on stands as monitors, and use your current poweramp to power them. You could then guy some bigger speakers and a bigger poweramp, probably have to be getting towards 2x300 for it to be worth it. I presume you have enough mixer inpus for your needs?

[meizmatt]

would it be better (in the long run) to buy a mixer seperately ,and then some speakers, or a whole PA system
were looking at:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630130/
or,
http://www.behringer.com/UB1202FX/index.cfm?lang=ENG
with 2
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/609000/
would i need a power amp?

should i get a subwoofer or a bass cabinet....


(please help us)

[moaner]

If you got the mixer and speakers, you'd need a power amp.

you wouldn't need a subwoofer, those aare full range cabs. Using one COULD improve your sound, but there are more important things to buy at your level.

The package should do you fine, but in the long run, you might be glad you bought the seperates. Its up to you.

[LivingDeadBoy]

Have a powered mixer(200 watts), and 2 amps(15 and 20 watt)...

Can we make the pa-mixer output to them instead of speakers for a couple of months?

[moaner]

Have a powered mixer(200 watts), and 2 amps(15 and 20 watt)...

Can we make the pa-mixer output to them instead of speakers for a couple of months?

no, it'll burn out without a correct speaker load attatched.

you can get speakers very cheap on ebay (£100 for a pair of 1x12s BIN, i once did see).

[LivingDeadBoy]

but we tried it yesterday evening and it all worked O.o...
the problem is... right now we got -200$..

[moaner]

but we tried it yesterday evening and it all worked O.o...
the problem is... right now we got -200$..

shame.

The poweramp is always operational in your PA, so it is slowly melting it. the only way it would work would be to disconnect the speakers form the practice amps, fit a jack plug to the end and plug them in like that. But, you wouldn't be able to turn the amps on, and also, you could blow the speakers, from too much power.

[moaner]

jack socket sorry.

[LivingDeadBoy]

gah **** that sucks... must get speakers... fast...

[LivingDeadBoy]

wait.. How does that happen???

[moaner]

wait.. How does that happen???

the amp doesn't know that you've got no speakers plugged in, since its designed only to be used with speakers. so it tries to run, but there's no speakers to go to, so it just starts to fry itself.

[meizmatt]

you wouldn't need a subwoofer, those aare full range cabs. Using one COULD improve your sound, but there are more important things to buy at your level.

could a bass cab work like a subwoofer?

[LivingDeadBoy]

but wait... we take the speaker outputs and direct it to our amplifiers(combos), so basically the thing that should fry after time is the amplifiers of the combos. not the pa system..

[Aes820]

but wait... we take the speaker outputs and direct it to our amplifiers(combos), so basically the thing that should fry after time is the amplifiers of the combos. not the pa system..
There is a very large chance you could do damage to both.
I would not reccomend it.
I would only reccomend you run the speaker outputs of your powered mixer into suitable speaker loads.

[meizmatt]

wuold this be a good pa system?
2
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_id/88745
with
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_id/88618
and
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_id/118900


please help we dont really want to waste our time or money....we have little money to spend

[BlinkRockr41]

I've got a few questions that no one answered before. How do you wire speakers in parallel? Is there just another output on the speaker that goes between two of them? We just got two squier loudspeakers that are 300W RMS. If they can be wired in parallel, then the biggest power amp we could get would be 2x600W @ 4 ohms, right? Also, you've said before that you should buy a power amp w/ a little more wattage than the speakers so clipping doesn't happen. Is there a certain percent that the power amp is supposed to be over the speakers? Basically, I'm trying to figure out the right size power amp to get the most volume from our speakers and the right amount of headroom, and they only have one input so if there's a seperate one you have to have for parallel, we can't do it. But please tell me what size would be right for both if we could and couldn't wire in parallel. Thanks for the help.

[meizmatt]

Also, you've said before that you should buy a power amp w/ a little more wattage than the speakers so clipping doesn't happen. Is there a certain percent that the power amp is supposed to be over the speakers? Basically, I'm trying to figure out the right size power amp to get the most volume from our speakers and the right amount of headroom,


what if your power amp is exacly the amount of watts as ur speakers(at the same amount of ohms)

[LivingDeadBoy]

Yay I took apart my home entertainment system speakers, since i didn't use it in years. So now i have 2 100 watt speakers...

Connected it all, now this is how it runs:
Instruments>>Mixer>> Speaker Outputs(1 and 2) >> Speakers
\
\_>> Monitor Output >> Amp1 >> Line out of Amp1 >> Amp2
--------------------

Works awesome... :) Is it good?

[Aes820]

wuold this be a good pa system?

please help we dont really want to waste our time or money....we have little money to spend
Yes, That will work.
But for your money (also including the mics and necessary cables to plug everything in with). You may be able to get a very similar packaged setup for less.
If you are on a budget and want to go for individual units. You could see how you go on Ebay?

[Aes820]

I've got a few questions that no one answered before. How do you wire speakers in parallel? Is there just another output on the speaker that goes between two of them? We just got two squier loudspeakers that are 300W RMS. If they can be wired in parallel, then the biggest power amp we could get would be 2x600W @ 4 ohms, right? Also, you've said before that you should buy a power amp w/ a little more wattage than the speakers so clipping doesn't happen. Is there a certain percent that the power amp is supposed to be over the speakers? Basically, I'm trying to figure out the right size power amp to get the most volume from our speakers and the right amount of headroom, and they only have one input so if there's a seperate one you have to have for parallel, we can't do it. But please tell me what size would be right for both if we could and couldn't wire in parallel. Thanks for the help.

Do a google search for the difference between parrallel and series circuits.
Many speaker cabinets have both an input and an output, these are usually wired in parrallel, and to connect up addition cabinets you simply daisy chain this output into the next cabinet.

Then you have to work out your ohm loading. You add the reciprocols of each of the loads, which equals the recipricol of the total load.
S1 = First speaker, S2= Second Speaker T = Total impedence.
(1/S1) + (1/S2) = (1/T)
Two 8 ohm speaker in parrallel = 4 ohms.
An 8 ohm speaker in parrallel with a 4 ohm speaker = 2.6r ohms


'Clipping' only refers to the poweramp. It has nothing to do with the speakers. If you run your rig up loud you may start to experience clipping. Most poweramps have a red LED light that indicates this. Keep an eye out for it and make sure it doesn't happen. If it does happen then make sure it is minimal.

Running it up extrememly loud will make it clip, regardless of what speakers you've got running off it.

I'd only reccomend buying an amplifier with enough headroom (watts) for you to do what you need it to do. Then, choose your speakers accordingly.
If you buy a 500 watt per channel amp and only need to run your volume down low in rder to be loud enough, then that's fine.
If you have a 100 watt per channel amp and you are running it up into clipping, then this is where problems occour.

[BWD]

http://www.kustom.com/products/pa/kpa100.asp

For those new, is $399. Is this a good deal? Or is this Kustom PA package ****?

Kustom KPM 4100

100 Watts RMS Output

4 Channels

4 Balanced XLR Inputs/4 Line Level Inputs

5-Band Master Graphic Equalizer

Built-in Reverb/Echo Effect

Tone Control for each Channel

Phantom Power

Kustom KSE 10 - Speakers

10-Inch High Efficiency Speaker

Power Capability: 75 Watts RMS/150 Peak

Frequency Response: 75-18K

Sensitivity: 93 db

Impedance: 8 Ohms

[LivingDeadBoy]

What if your speaker doesn't have an input and an output...

[Aes820]

BWD: They do the job. Good for garage bands practising, and 'house party' or backyard sized gigs. But not much else.
You do get what you pay for.

LivingDeadBoy: You could wire one yourself, Or use a Parrallel splitter box. But always take note of the total ohm loadings. I'd suggest you read up on this topic further, do a google search for resources.

[BWD]

Well I guess that's pretty much just what we need. Just for practices or parties, because venues have PA's usually, right?

[Aes820]

Often venues do have PAs, yes. Or you could hire one for the night.

[Samick]

i need some general info on on a P.A. for vocals thanx

[Samick]

i need some general info on vocal P.A. thanx

[Manimal]

I'm not sure if this has been asked or not, but the search isnt working right right now and there are too many pages to look through. I just but a small 230 watt PA to mix our instruments and record to cassette with when we jam. The speaker cabs have outputs on the back of them labeled "extension"

My question is:

Is this a line out or a speaker level out?

[Manimal]

For some reason since the board has been screwed up today this didnt go to the front.

Hopefuly now it will.

[Manimal]

Perhaps now?

[Aes820]

Is this a line out or a speaker level out?It is a speaker out. It is wired in parrallel to the speaker that is already in the cabinet. Do not run it into anything other than an adequate speaker load.

[moaner]

i need some general info on vocal P.A. thanx

well, that is TOO general.

what do you want to know?

[Manimal]

My PA's speakers are 8 ohm. If I added on an 8 ohm extension speaker off of each end would that bring the load down to 4 ohms? I'm not sure if my powered mixer can handle 4ohms or not.

[moaner]

My PA's speakers are 8 ohm. If I added on an 8 ohm extension speaker off of each end would that bring the load down to 4 ohms? I'm not sure if my powered mixer can handle 4ohms or not.

2 8ohm speakers wired in parallel will give you 4 ohms.

[Aes820]

It will also depend on the outputs of your powered mixer. If it is a stereo powered mixer then yes you should be able to do this. Having a minimum of 4 ohms load on each of the two outputs.

However, if it is only a mono powered mixer, and if you are currently running two 8 ohm speakers off it then it will already be running at 4 ohms.

[Manimal]

I just double checked. Its a mono amplifier. Meaning my 2 8 ohm speakers are a 4 ohm load on the amp. Meaning that adding on 2 more 8 ohm speakers would create a 2 ohm load correct?

[Aes820]

Yes, correct. And it may not be safe to run anything < 4 ohms off your powered mixer.

[Manimal]

I always see amplifiers in musicians friend being advertised as 1000 watts x 2 @ 2 ohms and such. Is this just false advertising to get you to think "more watts, better amp"?

Can some amps actually run at 2 ohms safetly for long periods of time at loud volumes?

[Aes820]

Some amps can be safely run at 2 ohms. Usually these amps have got built in cooling fans and large heat sinks to help dissipate the heat caused by doing so.

It would be best to stick with what is noted on your amp to be its minimum safe loading.

[Manimal]

Another question:

My current powered mixer is, as you now know, a mono amplifier. It has a line out on the back to connect to an outboard amp. I plan on using this later on to run either monitors or my mains if i need more power later and run my monitors off of the powered mixers main outs. If i use a stereo amp for this will i need to run a splitter cable to duplicate the channel onto the second stereo channel of the new amp?

[Manimal]

Some amps can be safely run at 2 ohms. Usually these amps have got built in cooling fans and large heat sinks to help dissipate the heat caused by doing so.

It would be best to stick with what is noted on your amp to be its minimum safe loading.


This powered mixer has a cooling fan in the back. I'm not so sure as to if it can handle that type of load though. I'll have to check in the manual.

[Aes820]

Another question:
A Y splitter would do the job.

[Manimal]

Good stuff.

Thanks moaner and Aes.

[Manimal]

Looks like I have another for you guys:

I tried plugging my guitar direct to the powered mixer to see how it would sound. However I noticed that the level was very low even when the volume on the channel and the main volume was set very high? Is this normal or is something wrong with this?

[LivingDeadBoy]

check for a mic gain knob?

[Aes820]

Looks like I have another for you guys:

I tried plugging my guitar direct to the powered mixer to see how it would sound. However I noticed that the level was very low even when the volume on the channel and the main volume was set very high? Is this normal or is something wrong with this?
If you are running an electric guitar direct you'll need either a Preamp or a DI box before running it into the powered mixer.
If you are using an acoustic/electric guitar (with a built in preamp) then make sure the levels on the guitars preamp are suitable set and it has fresh batteries in it.

Just a footnote tho. Running an electric guitar direct to the PA (using a DI) doesnt usually sound too impressive (especially not if you want a distorted tone - It wont be any good for the Mixer anyway).
I'd reccomend using an amp modeller (like a POD) or a Preamp with a suitably voiced direct output. Better yet, Mic up your guitar amps speaker cabinet.

[moaner]

behringer make a DI box with cab simulation, for not a lot of money. You could use that with a distortion pedal or amp's line out.

[Manimal]

Yeah I know it doesnt sound very good. I was just curious to see how well it actually sounded. I'd never think about doing this to use as an amp.

[Samick]

well, that is TOO general.

what do you want to know?
just simple things like, do u plug the mic straight into the p.a. whats a cheap one, why do i gotta use a p.a. on vocals VS a amp.
never used p.a. befor so...

[Aes820]

just simple things like, do u plug the mic straight into the p.a. whats a cheap one, why do i gotta use a p.a. on vocals VS a amp.
never used p.a. befor so...
There's really too much to go into.
I suggest you read through these articles: http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/pa_page.html

Then ask more specific questions if you need anything confirmed.

[KissMeIamSh*tFaced]

The built in effects on my PA just don't work, it dosen't say anything about it in the instruction manuel

Here it is:

http://www.shuredistribution.co.uk/products_phonic/product-Shr-472-56-250.htm

[himynameistweek]

i need moniters, i figure this thread's close enough. I don't have much money at all to mess around with, but i want 2 moniters, i dont need them to be particularly loud. I already have a mixer. any suggestions on cheap moniters?

[Aes820]

The built in effects on my PA just don't work, it dosen't say anything about it in the instruction manuel
Are the FX send levels on each channel up enough?
Are the FX return levels set properly.

[moaner]

i need moniters, i figure this thread's close enough. I don't have much money at all to mess around with, but i want 2 moniters, i dont need them to be particularly loud. I already have a mixer. any suggestions on cheap moniters?

monitors? cheap?

not usually words in the same sentence.

the problem comes when you need a way to power your monitors.

Either, get a powered monitor, and a passive, and use those (works out expeensive)

or a couple of cheap passives off ebay, and a cheap poweramp (a bit cheaper)

better still, find a band upgrading their PA, or buy a new, small Pa setup. then, use the speakers in it as your monitors, powered by the powered mixer.

[himynameistweek]

argh... so even if i buy PAs i still have to use a poweramp? blowage! well thanks moaner, you kick ***. any suggestions on brands?

[moaner]

argh... so even if i buy PAs i still have to use a poweramp? blowage! well thanks moaner, you kick ***. any suggestions on brands?

hmm...

kustom, behringer, and any ebay nonames.

[Aes820]

Some model powered mixers come with an ability to be switched to split for both monitoring and FOH applications.

[moaner]

Some model powered mixers come with an ability to be switched to split for both monitoring and FOH applications.

its usually not the lower end ones, unfortunately.

I never worked out how they managed that, form an electroics point of view. i guess splitting the line signal into 4 and combining it again after 4 transistors could allow 1/2 ttrassistors outputs to be split for monitoring and the rest combined to make i louder.

[himynameistweek]

Foh?

[Aes820]

FOH = Front Of House = the big speakers up the front of the stage, that point out towards the audience.
I'd reccomend reading through the rest of this thread to find out other terminology.

Moaner, say it was a 2x400 watt powered mixer. Two channels, both a left and a right, each with an output of 400 watts.
While split for monitoring, its like using what was the left channel for the FOH and what was the right channel for the monitors. So it'll be a dual mono output.

[10571z]

how many watts powered mixer do u reckon you need for a 3 piece punk band for the singer theres like bass, guitar and drums so its quite loud???

[himynameistweek]

how many watts powered mixer do u reckon you need for a 3 piece punk band for the singer theres like bass, guitar and drums so its quite loud???
it depends what you'll be doing. if it's just for messing around in your garage, not that much. if it's for playing a show in front of 500 people, obviously you'll need a little more. It also depends on how powerful the guitar and bass amps are. can you specify a bit more?

[moaner]

it depends what you'll be doing. if it's just for messing around in your garage, not that much. if it's for playing a show in front of 500 people, obviously you'll need a little more. It also depends on how powerful the guitar and bass amps are. can you specify a bit more?

except for very small gigs, you should always try to have guitar and bass going into the PA. mid size gigs, drums too i'm afraid.

[moaner]

FOH = Front Of House = the big speakers up the front of the stage, that point out towards the audience.
I'd reccomend reading through the rest of this thread to find out other terminology.

Moaner, say it was a 2x400 watt powered mixer. Two channels, both a left and a right, each with an output of 400 watts.
While split for monitoring, its like using what was the left channel for the FOH and what was the right channel for the monitors. So it'll be a dual mono output.

ah, right. so it has some limitations.

you could do that on any powered mixer really, if you watched your ohms, couldn't you?

[Aes820]

you could do that on any powered mixer really, if you watched your ohms, couldn't you?
An advantage of being able to split it is so that you can control the volume levels between the FOH and the monitors independantly.

[moaner]

An advantage of being able to split it is so that you can control the volume levels between the FOH and the monitors independantly.

ah, thats true,

do most powered mixers not have a master pan?

[epiphoneguitarist221]

hey aes quick question... my band is looking to invest in a new pa system , just want to know what one would be better for the money, and big enough.. http://www.music123.com/SoundTech-S20-i131742.music that or.. http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA7212-7-Channel-PA-System-i106475.music

[Aes820]

Out of those two, definately go for the Kustom.

The Soundtech one is rated at 160 watts peak. Which you really have take with a grain of salt.
Be very careful when looking at amp brands that rate their power output in Peak. As this is no real representation as to how loud the amplifier actually is.
What you would want to take note of is RMS power output. Ignore peak power output, as a 160 watt peak amp may only have an RMS output of 50 watts or so.

The Kustom however has an RMS output of 200 watts. It will be a much more powerful and versatile setup.
This PA would be suitable for practising and some house party sized gigs, but may not be suitable for anything larger.
But, the price seems failry reasonable.

[Manimal]

I have a few questions and I cant find the search bar anymore so I apolagize if these have been asked before.

First up, my powered mixer has 6 channels, 5 of which have mic inputs. This is fine for right now. However later we will need more channels for more instruments and more drum mics. Chances are we wont need more power right away, and what I really want to do is start building up a serious PA with seperate mixer and amp components for monitors, mains, etc.

Would the most sensible method right now be to buy another mixer and then run it into one of the channels of the powered mixer? Is there anything wrong with doing this? What I would do is get a decent sized 16 channel+ mixer and run it through one of the powered mixers channels till I got the seperate power amps.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The mics i have right now are pretty cheap and I believe microphonics (I believe thats what you call it) is causing the mics to squeal and feedback when i turn the mic channels volume passed half way. I cant get to use all of my PA's power because I cant amplify the signal enough before this starts to happen. Would an outboard mic preamp unit boost the line signal to be amplified? Also, would a seperate mixer such as one I was talking about getting in my first question have a mic preamp built in?

Also can I have some info about mic preamps? Is this what they are intended to be used for or are they mainly just for tone shaping? Thanks.

[Aes820]

Yes. You can run the outputs of one mixer into the inputs of a powered mixer. it is quite fine to do so.
However, because of the larger number of ways in which you can set things, you'll have more places where things can go wrong, and you'll probably even be more prone to feedback. So you'll have to be extra careful with how you set your gain structure.
If you use a bit of care, you should be fine however.

If the cause of your second problem is infact microphonics, then some higher quality microphones will be a good option.
If it is infact just old fashioned feedback, then just position the PA speakers further away from the mics.

[Manimal]

What about mic preamps, would this help boost the pre amplified mic signal? When I run a CD player through the tape-ins, the PA can play at loud volumes easily, and the mic cannot be heard over it.

Is the signal being sent strait into the mixer too low?

[moaner]

What about mic preamps, would this help boost the pre amplified mic signal? When I run a CD player through the tape-ins, the PA can play at loud volumes easily, and the mic cannot be heard over it.

Is the signal being sent strait into the mixer too low?

I doubt it.

As long as you're plugging a mic into a mic input, the level should be fine. go through checking your gain and "volume" levels, as well as your master level, to see where you might be going wrong. Remember that some tape ins bypass all volume controls, so you need to check the level on the CD player itself.

A mic pre-amp converts a mic level signal to a line level signal, and is not really the solution to your problem. Unless the mic pre-amps built into your mixer are too weak, which is very unlikely.

[Manimal]

It doesnt bypass the main volume control.

Since a mic pre-amp turns the signal into a line level, wouldnt the mic pre-amp then be able to boost the signal to be amplified by the powered mixer without worrying about the screechy noises and turning the powered mixers levels up to the point where the screeching noises accure?

[robman304]

Hey, a bit out of place with the pre-amp deal going on, but can you guys give me an opinion on this? I've been doing a lot of research and I think it's definitely a worthy purchase, but if any of you have experience/knowledge about these PA's, do tell.

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=P620-1230&CID=SYS1

[H to the ickle]

This is a noob question:

If you buy a powered mixer, do you need a PA head to drive the speakers still?

[Aes820]

Since a mic pre-amp turns the signal into a line level, wouldnt the mic pre-amp then be able to boost the signal to be amplified by the powered mixer without worrying about the screechy noises and turning the powered mixers levels up to the point where the screeching noises accure?
A mic preamp boost a mic signal up to a line level signal using gain. The more gain there is then the more sensitive the input of the mic will be, too much gain and you will experience feedback.
If you daisy chain one mic preamp into another mic preamp then you'll have an ability to dial in greater amounts of gain, and therfore you will increase the risk of feedback.
Similarly, if you use large amounts of gain in either of the preamps, then you will experience clipping as the signal peaks over the maximum input headroom of the preamp section. And you'll get unwanted distortion. This sounds bad.

robman304: That looks fine to me.

H to the ickle: A powered mixer is a mixer which contains a built in poweramp. All you'll need in conjuction with this will be the actual speakers.

[H to the ickle]

Many thanks.

[robman304]

thanks aes...you are the man as usual :thumb:

[Shazbot]

What do I need for microphone sound? I'm totally new to this stuff. Do I need an amp? A monitor? A PA? All these terms confuse me. I know what they are basically, but I don't know which is used for what. I know amps are used for guitar & bass, but are they for microphones as well? Are monitors just so the singer can hear himself? Is a PA used for the microphone so the audience can hear?

Basically this is just for a garage band type setup, but hopefully one day I'd want to use it on stage. So which do I need?

These are the microphone and stand I'm buying:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-SHU-SM58SLC.html
http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-MUS-MS7201B.html

[Aes820]

For a garage type band setup (with the prospect of gigging in the near future). All you may need is a 2x300 watt powered mixer, with speakers. Something from the brands, Yamaha, Behringer or Peavey are usually safe bets.
Look around for 'packaged PA setups'.
And read through this thread for more suggestions and information regarding questions you may have.
Most of the questions you have asked, have been answered before.

[redrumsixsix6]

hows this setup? will be used for giging vocals and maybe micing guiar amps for some extra wattage and drums posibly
Eurorack UB1202 Mixer
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/631236/

XP-350 Stereo Power Amp
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_id/118900

http://www.greatstuffsalesco.com/detail.aspx?ID=2559


one more thing, how dp you hok the power amp to the mixer?

[Aes820]

Well, the mixer will work with the poweramp, but the speakers are unsuitable.
You'll need something more suited to your needs. Something with at least a 12" driver and a flared HF driver.
Oth than that, check the user reviews on that poweramp. It doesn't seem to be very popular.
The Mixer will do the job, but perhaps check out some other brands of poweramps. And you'll need proper PA speaker bins too.

Sometimes it is simpler to just buy a packaged PA setup. They usually contain a powered mixer, a couple of speakers and perhaps even a mic or two.
These may be alot more suitable for your use and you wont have to worry about how exactally they all hook up together.

EDIT: Sorry mate, I just read that thread you also made in the guitar forum about this. Shop around definately, sometimes you can find packaged setups that are cheaper than individual componets.
I think on the first or second page of this thread there is a few links to some cheaper setups. But see how you go.
If you've got links to any other products which you'll need help with or opinions on, just post them here and I'll let you know what I think.

[the_only_singer]

Alright specialists on here tell me what you think of my setup (I just ordered it tonight so if it sucks I guess I will have to deal with it for now but it sure as hell beats nothing):

Behringer PMH2000 Europower Powered Mixer
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631240/

Yamaha BR12 12" 2-Way Speaker Cabinet (only one)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/601212/

Shure SM58 Mic
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270101/

Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200 Mic Preamp
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/182491/

Skimpy on the speakers, I know, but I didn't have money for what I really wanted:

B-52 LX-1515 Dual 15" 2-Way 800W 4-Ohm PA Speaker
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/602059/

...even though I doubt the mixer I got could power it.
Anyway, what do you think?

[The Hawk]

Alright specialists on here tell me what you think of my setup (I just ordered it tonight so if it sucks I guess I will have to deal with it for now but it sure as hell beats nothing):

Behringer PMH2000 Europower Powered Mixer
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631240/

Yamaha BR12 12" 2-Way Speaker Cabinet (only one)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/601212/

Shure SM58 Mic
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270101/

Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200 Mic Preamp
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/182491/

Skimpy on the speakers, I know, but I didn't have money for what I really wanted:

B-52 LX-1515 Dual 15" 2-Way 800W 4-Ohm PA Speaker
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/602059/

...even though I doubt the mixer I got could power it.
Anyway, what do you think?

The mixer and speaker pair up pretty well.
You definitely don't want to buy the B-52 bins using that mixer. You will totally under power them and you can't run one in bridged mode, as the impedance is not matched. I take it you are just using it for rehearsals and such?
You should be content with it......for awhile, lol

[redrumsixsix6]

Well, the mixer will work with the poweramp, but the speakers are unsuitable.
You'll need something more suited to your needs. Something with at least a 12" driver and a flared HF driver.
Oth than that, check the user reviews on that poweramp. It doesn't seem to be very popular.
The Mixer will do the job, but perhaps check out some other brands of poweramps. And you'll need proper PA speaker bins too.

Sometimes it is simpler to just buy a packaged PA setup. They usually contain a powered mixer, a couple of speakers and perhaps even a mic or two.
These may be alot more suitable for your use and you wont have to worry about how exactally they all hook up together.

EDIT: Sorry mate, I just read that thread you also made in the guitar forum about this. Shop around definately, sometimes you can find packaged setups that are cheaper than individual componets.
I think on the first or second page of this thread there is a few links to some cheaper setups. But see how you go.
If you've got links to any other products which you'll need help with or opinions on, just post them here and I'll let you know what I think.


thanks alot!

[redrumsixsix6]

how are these speakers?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1

[The Hawk]

how are these speakers?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1

I'd stick with the Yamaha or check out some Yorkville stuff
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=211

They have some great gear at a decent price.

[moaner]

how are these speakers?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1

the frequency response isn't great, but they'd do you fine for a low level setup or for some monitoring.

[redrumsixsix6]

the frequency response isn't great, but they'd do you fine for a low level setup or for some monitoring.


o.......... well we need them for live stuff so i guess i gotta look for something else.

what speakers would i need fr live stuff 4 vocals and maybe micin the guitar amps 4 extra volume?

[moaner]

o.......... well we need them for live stuff so i guess i gotta look for something else.

what speakers would i need fr live stuff 4 vocals and maybe micin the guitar amps 4 extra volume?

well, the bass drivers need to be at least 10" I'd say, preferably 12", and advise you get some stands.

look on ebay. some good brands for busget are skytec, yamaha, behringer, and soundlab.

[redrumsixsix6]

how is this mixer for just using mics and some speakers only a samll gig.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783&item=5756098582&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Aes820]

You definitely don't want to buy the B-52 bins using that mixer. You will totally under power them and you can't run one in bridged mode, as the impedance is not matched.
There is only a risk of underpowering speakers if you run the amp up into clipping.
Although, for speakers like those linked. It'll be good to have a decent amount of power behind them. At least 2x600 watts would be nice.

redrumsixsix6: I know you're are on a budget. But I honestly think your best bet would be to save up and buy one of those 4 channel 100 watt powered mixer packaged setups.

[redrumsixsix6]

is that a no go
on the realistic pa- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47094&item=7305299632&rd=1

[Kilisab]

I'm looking for a good PA for like 500. Nothing special, but not crap either. Primarily will be used to practice at home and sometimes with band. I will spend up to 800 for a PA and a mic( I still haven't picked a mic). The only things I'm looking for is a vintage 60s sound, something with reverb, think along the lines of Beach Boys.

Nothing too loud, but not some crap either. Because of my lack of knowledge about PAs I have even considered buying a bass amp to use with a mic. But thats pretty much all I need, a "vocal amp". So any suggestions, hopefully with links, are welcome.

[moaner]

I'm looking for a good PA for like 500. Nothing special, but not crap either. Primarily will be used to practice at home and sometimes with band. I will spend up to 800 for a PA and a mic( I still haven't picked a mic). The only things I'm looking for is a vintage 60s sound, something with reverb, think along the lines of Beach Boys.

Nothing too loud, but not some crap either. Because of my lack of knowledge about PAs I have even considered buying a bass amp to use with a mic. But thats pretty much all I need, a "vocal amp". So any suggestions, hopefully with links, are welcome.

hmmm...

you may be better off with a seperate reverb unit and a PA.

Most Pas in that range won't have any useable build in reverb.

As for a mic, Stagg make an Elvis style 50's mic, otherwise get yourself a behringer XM8500 or 2 and concentrate on getting a decent PA.

[Aes820]

I'd reccomend a packaged PA setup. One that includes everything, inclding speaker stands, mics and mic cables.
Something like: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630173/

[aussiegnr]

Hi people, Firstly id just like to say a big thanks for making this thread, and in particular id like to thank Aex820 for answering so many questions as well as the many others (they know who they are) whove helped.

Bit about me: im from australia, at age of 28 just got into music, ie. self taught guitar 3yrs and wanting to sing. A year ago began these fun jams with a friend who drums, and one on lead electric guitar who uses is own guitar amp. i play semi accoustic and sing through another guitar amp. Even though we just do this for fun once a week at the schools music room, ive had enough of trying to get the guitarist to tone down as my vocals cant get any louder..and all im doing instead is having to strain my voice to match electric guitar levels (btw, just acoustically its all great.. just electric sucks a bit for the heavier rock songs) NO MORE I SAY.. so ive decided to get a PA system. Athough we arent that serious, we are getting more into it, and its definatley not outta the question and infact most likely that we may play some giggs eventually give it a couple of years :) Once I get some singing lessons etc..and my guitar improves haha So yes..for the beginning ill just use the PA for Vocals, and my acoustic guitar (since im buying the whole thing )
... OKAY... so far ive done about a months research on PA systems on net + looked at this message board, and its all starting to make sense.

Last week i bought the following speakers:
http://www.accusound.com.au/PA_Series.html
ie. 2 x 15" PA LoudSpeakers
Main thing is that they are each at 200w RMS @ 8ohms (or Power Handling as it says on side of box) Mainly got these cause of the 5 yrs warranty and from advice from a muso i know. Got them for AU$305 on ebay, rrp $1000

Now... after some research, found the simplest set up to have is a powered mixer and ive narrowed my options to 3, due to Price and Power. This is where id love an opinion AES820 (or anyone else who can help) on the best match to my already bought speakers and my needs, and since im aussie, ill tell u the price i can get these for in Australian dollars (price will include the powered mixer plus postage to canberra).. haha ive found some cool deals on each one.. but they wont last long so I have to hurry. Main thing is ive decided to buy everything brand new..due to warranty etc.. and hopefully less that can go wrong.

OK..
1.Behringer EUROPOWER PMH2000
2 x 250-Watt 10-Channel Power Mixer with 24-Bit Multi-FX Processor
http://www.behringer.com/PMH2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Is 2 x 250w @ 4ohms, and at 2x 180w @ 8ohms (btw, is this the thing I need to look at.. from what ive read it is…
Also this one says its stereo, yet hasn’t got any panning (main or at individual channels)… weird.

$510 (rrp $599)

2.Alto PBM 8.250 - 8 channel 250W powered brick mixer
http://www.gtp.com.au/musiclink/index.php?page=viewStory&title=PBM8250 this doesn’t tell u much.. so I added the pdf
http://www.musiclab.com.au/assets/cat_images/alto/mxalpbm8250.pdf

Very similar to above behringer, but has 2 less channels, also instead of 2 x 180w @8ohms, this one says it has 2x 190w @ 8ohms, so alittle more powerful @ 8ohms it seems.
Also this one has panning at individual channels (don’t know if ill really need this). And also has added a Built-in feedback terminator.. is this important?? Or infact a nice bonus??

$517.95 (rrp $749)

3. Behringer EUROPOWER PMH880S
Ultra-Compact 2 x 400-Watt 10-Channel Powered Mixer with Dual 24-Bit Multi-FX
Processor and FBQ Feedback Detection System
http://www.behringer.com/PMH880S/index.cfm?lang=ENG

I couldn’t find the power of this one @ 8ohms , but I suspect it being around the 2 x 300w @ 8ohm mark. This also has the panning with the Feedback Detection System.

$580 (rrp $699)

Now I only added the 3rd choice cause I was wondering if infact its worth paying $60 more for this one, which is obviously a better more powerful amp?? And this may well be handy down the track if I ever get more serious bout this jamming and gigging (never done one yet) stuff.
Or is it infact too powerful for my 200wrms speakers??, and although if I turned it down etc, would I have to be extremely careful not to blow my speakers??

This is where HEADROOM comes into it. All of these powered amps say they have heaps of headroom??? Eg. The Alto says: “Extremely high headroom offering more dynamic range”
Its one of the concepts im still not understanding that well. I thought by getting either the 1st or 2nd choice powered mixers, ie. With 180-190w @ 8 ohms would be pefect for my 200rms 8ohm Speakers, as I could turn the amp up (main levels and channels) and still not quite reach the full rms of the speakers, hence very little chance for a beginner like me to blow my speakers..

Ive seen the talk about poweramps matching speakers in terms of power.. does the same apply for powered mixers??Ie. Ideally if u have a 2 x 250w @ 4 ohms ud want 250w rms 4 ohm speakers
Or in my case, with the same powered mixer, ud ideally have 180w rms 8 ohm speakers to match the 2 x 180-190w this amp produces at 8ohm??? Is this the right concept.

Or does clipping infact occur whenever u turn the powered mixer full ball (main level and channel levels reasonably high) even if u have speakers well beyond the capability of this power?? So infact does good Headroom mean, when u have a powered mixer which can easily exceed the RMS of the Speakers, so therefore ull never need to ever put the levels up high…
Hence.. is the clipping due to physically turning the levels up too high on an amp.. or due to the speakers being too weak… or both..
Jeeaz I hope I haven’t confused anyone.. and hope someone can help, hope others can benefit from having this answered…

On the 1st and 2nd amp (which I think will be the one most of guys will suggest), which is infact the better brand, in terms of overall quality, lastability, warranty etc.. alto do say they give a complete replacement for first yeah I think.. ill check. The alto is priced abit higher too..ie rrp, if price means it better??? Also.. the frequency terminator may be cool thing to have..

Sorry about the length of this. And Aex820 although u probably don’t wanna have people constantly askn ya questions etc.. but is it possible to contact u via email, mine’s stevieb@dodo.com.au
Cause I don’t wanna make huge posts, but with the info, ill summarise and post on here if that makes sense,

Anyways, have a happy easter guys.. and rock on
Stevie B :)

[Aes820]

Gidday. That was one of the longest posts i've ever seen.

I'm from Canberra too. I recently bought a place in Richardson. Where you from? Who do you play with? Anyone I'd know?

All those powered mixers you linked to look suitably powered for your speakers. Although when it comes to power, you may be better off with something more watts. Perhaps 2x400 watt. But it depends.

If you are playing acoustic gigs, this will probably be fine. But if you are playing with the electric guitar at a crowded pub (perhaps the size of King O Malleys) then it'll struggle to keep up.
It's true that alot of venues supply thie own PAs and you can always rent iof needs be. But A little extra power will never go astray.

For that reason. You may be better off with a seperate mixer + poweramp setup.
Buy a Behringer mixer, one that is similar in channels and features to those other ones you were looking at. Perhaps the UB1204FX-Pro.
Talk to Steve Gray at Better Music in Phillip and he'll set you up with a suitable poweramp for your needs, and all the leads and cabels that you'll need to (Speakon connectors for your speakers).

This way you can later add on more speakers and upgrade the poweramp if you need the extra power. And you'll be able to downsize for smaller gigs to.

But, don't let me talk you out of it. If you would prefer the ease of a powered mixer then definately go for it.
And if that is the case, then I'd reccomend you go for the Behringer EUROPOWER PMH880S. You may be overpowering your speakers slighly, so you may not be able to crank it up all that much. But at least you'll have that extra headroom if needs be.

I'll cover headroom and power and clipping in another post. I've got other stuff happening at the moment and haven't got long.
Or perhaps, after Easter I'll send you an email and talk to you via that.

[aussiegnr]

Thanks for that Aes820.. wow.. what a small world we live in. Im from Belconnen side, and its funny when u ask who i play with etc. as u may know them. Nah.. i know nobody on the music scene im afraid... i wish hehe
Since im only very new to all this music stuff (learned on accoustic guitar for 3yrs, knowing basic chords, and just getting into barre chords + and just beginning to sing with no vocal training - something i will get soon though.. ;) Weve only jammed in at my school's (im a PE teacher) music room i have access to for a year.. bout not much more than 30 2hr sessions all up... so very little experience.. and only now starting to think bout PA stuff and improving sound etc.
Get this.. i dont know any musos, as my friends are more into sport etc.. therefore i jam with an ex student (17yr old guitarist) and his brother 15 yr old drummer (a mate whos only beginning sometimes does some easy drumming) hahah..
what a weird concept u ask.. ie. a 28yr old man jamming with his ex students.. hehe well i love music too much to stop me goin for it.. and as i mentioned its only fun atm.. but i have to say.. these guys i jam with are awesome..and well they want me as the vocalist and rythm..and yeah.. although we are definatly not gig ready, the sessions are great fun.. with no real expectations.

so that said (i probably shouldve waited for your email and just posted this dribble to u Aes820 instead of boring the rest of the world).. im more into first catering the basic needs of jamming in a 12meter x 12meter music room, but also open to the idea of possibly performing (once i get over my nervousness) at a school stage one of these days.. and oneday when we are better to do some very small gigs.. and then oneday make it huge on the scene.. when im 35 or so... hahahah yeah right

anyways at this time im definatly gonna go with th ease of a powered mixer. Ill talk to you abit more about it once u send me an email.. but i find the topic of 'how to match powered mixer with speaker' a very interesting one .. particulary for beginners who like myself just wanna get a set of speakers, and the powered mixer..and the ease of it all.. but with some power.
Btw ill post any important info i get from Aes820s email here so others can get some benefit from it ;)

Also.... have any of u guys heard of the brand ALTO?? and lets say i was to chose the 1st or 2nd choice amp.. which is better.. Alto 2x250 or that Behringer 2x250??
im just wondering which is more durable to last longer and the better overal amp.

who knows.. i may well end up getting the 3rd choice one anyways hahaha

btw.. when we jam, we do easy gnr covers, some Led Zep, some CCR (wanna learn some more), melloncamp,rolling stones, old acdc like TNT, and so much other stuff.... and a couple of cool songs from some aussie bands like powerderfinger and hoodoo gurus. haha even tried "The first cut is the deepest" by cat stevens / rod stewart

ciao
steve

[squirrelnutz510]

in a rock band, very loud instruments, ESPECIALLY DRUMS. we play rock and metal. we currently have a kustom kpa804 pa system and its not cutting it for us. way too weak. heres the link <http://www.music123.com/Kustom-KPA804-PA-SYSTEM-i58245.music>
we want to know what would b a smart buy from the list of top sellers on <http://www.music123.com/PA-Systems-d32.music> or which you would prefer from <http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search?sc=score&so=desc&c=5335>
we dont really have a big budget though. thanks.

[aussiegnr]

Hey people... ive been recently trying get info on how to match my already bought speaker boxes with a powered mixer.. a music shop sent me a pdf if anyone wants it, and it tells of the dangers of having a low powered amp for speakers. i cant post the link, so if anyone wants the pdf file, just let me know.. its not big, but gives good guidline for purchasing amps or powered mixers.
my email: stevieb@dodo.com.au

and big thanks to Aes820 for helping out


cheers,
steve

[moaner]

Hey people... ive been recently trying get info on how to match my already bought speaker boxes with a powered mixer.. a music shop sent me a pdf if anyone wants it, and it tells of the dangers of having a low powered amp for speakers. i cant post the link, so if anyone wants the pdf file, just let me know.. its not big, but gives good guidline for purchasing amps or powered mixers.
my email: stevieb@dodo.com.au

and big thanks to Aes820 for helping out


cheers,
steve

www.yousendit.com the pdf please

thanks

[moaner]

in a rock band, very loud instruments, ESPECIALLY DRUMS. we play rock and metal. we currently have a kustom kpa804 pa system and its not cutting it for us. way too weak. heres the link <http://www.music123.com/Kustom