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LegionsofMarduk
03-27-2004, 02:09 PM
At the request of the mods, I'm making this thread to get stickied. Seeing as how there are numerous threads asking "What's the difference between genre X and genre Y?", hopefully this will curb some of those. NOTE: This is a very general guideline and not a definitive carved in stone definition. While I may put a band in with one genre, that doesn't mean that they might not fit into more than one sub-genre. I think most people here know my main area of interest is death and black metal so if you disagree with some of my opinions or band lists...fine.

Traditional heavy Metal
This is kind of a "catch all". There are plenty of sub-genres, but there are lots of bands that don't fit any sub-genre and can't really be called anything except "heavy metal". This can be basically anything from the old school British heavy metal invation to the newer stuff coming out today (not to be confused with nu-metal). This is what most people think of when they hear "Power metal" or such terms. Lots of different styles can be considered traditional heavy metal. Some bands: Iron Maiden, Judas Preist, Iced Earth, Godsmack, Manowar, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall etc etc etc etc.

Thrash metal
Thrash really started to come into play in the early 1980's. It was in one way, an answer to the more popular "hair metal" bands of the time. Thrash grew out of older metal such as Black Sabbath combined with chunkier riffs, speed, agrresive vocals, and even some punk. Thrash metal is concentrated more heavily on speed and aggression than it's predacessors. Key bands: Metallica (old stuff), Slayer, Anthrax, Kreator, Sodom, Megadeth, Exodus, Overkill, Nuclear Assault, Sabbat (UK), Darkane etc etc.

Doom Metal
Where thrash metal concentrates on being fast and aggressive, doom concentrates on being slower, lower and groovier. Many consider Black Sabbath to be the fathers of doom. Typically the music is slow and heavy. Guitars are tuned down and the vocals are usually clean, although growls do slip in on occasion. Also, while death and black metal are generally more aggressive lyrically, doom metal is very meloncholic, depressive and gives an extremly dark vibe. The music can range quite a bit from the extremely slloooooow all clean vocals, to the faster (but still relatively slow) doom/death bands. Check out http://www.doom-metal.com for some good information and a pretty large list of bands. Key bands: Candlemass, St. Vitus, Unsilence, My Dying Bride, Katatonia, Paradise Lost etc etc.

Death Metal
Death metal is the opposite end of the spectrum from doom metal. There are a few different schools of death metal. Generally speaking though, the music is fast, aggressive, low. The bass line is usually more pronounced than in other metal sub-genres. The vocal style is trademark to death metal. Usually vocals are growled or grunted. Blast beat drums are very prevalent. The most common misconception is that death metal is all about death and gore and killing and the likes. This is most certainly not the case. While many bands do sing about this type of thing, there are tons of great bands that do not limit themselves to lyrics like that. Lyrics can range to include religion, spirituality, fantasy and beyond. The music can range from the very aggressive and brutal (Aborted, Iniquity, Suffocation) to the more melodic (Ebony Tears, At The Gates) to the very technical (Atheist, Cynic). Key bands: Lykathea Aflame, Mithras, Morbid Angel, Behemoth (older stuff was black metal), Opeth, Immolation, Blood Red Throne, Entombed, Unleashed, Sinners Bleed.

Melodic death metal
An obvious sub-genre to death metal, it's becoming popular enough that I think it deserves it's own little section. Basically, it incorporates more melody. What it lacks in brutallity, it more than makes up for in melodic grooves. The vocals are typically not as harsh, there may or may not be as many blast beats. Key Bands: At The Gates, In Flames, Ebony Tears, Carcass (Heartwork mainly), Aeternus, Amon Amarth, Kalmah, Norther.

Black Metal
My own personaly favorite and particular area of expertise. Black metal and death metal are quite closely related. While death is focused on the shear brutallity, black metal is focused more on creating atmosphere. The music is typically higher pitched with less of a bass line. Some bands incorporate the use of keyboards or synthesizers. The production is quite often pretty bad giving it a raw or "trOO necro" quality. Tremelo picking abounds, blast beats are not as prevalent as in death metal but are still there quite often. The vocals are generally high pitched shreiked or screamed. The music can range from the "trOO necro" bands (Darkthrone) to the more melodic (Naglfar) to the very sophisticated orchestral atmospheric (Arcturus). A common misconception about black metal is that all the bands are Satanist and sing about Satan. While many bands are Satanic or anti-christian (note the distinct difference), that is not the case with all black metal bands. Lyrics can range from Satanic to fantasy to witchcraft to just about anything. Many black metal bands are very paganistic in ideology and see the christian church as an intruder in their native lands, leading to the very deep seeded hatred for christianity. Unfortunately, black metal also has a sub-genre known as NSBM. National Socialist Black Metal. While I do listen to quite a few of those bands because I like the music, lyrically many black metal bands are very racist against not only Blacks or Jews, but anyone of non-aryan decent. Key bands: Burzum, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Nargaroth, Emperor, Bathory, Immortal, Beherit, Graveland, Gorgoroth, Moonblood, Samael.

Progressive metal
A newer genre (relatively speaking), prog metal incorporates the general aggression of heavy metal with the progressive rock sound of the late 70's. Generally speaking, the music has lots of different aspects including key and time changes, unique riffing and such. The level of musicianship is typically extremly high. Dream Theater is by far the most popular band in this genre. The music is generally quite technical. Key Bands: Dream Theater, Queensryche, Spiral Architect, Spastic Ink, Aghora, Gordian Knot, Racer X.

Nu-metal
Nu-metal is the newest craze to hit mainstream rock radio. Without trying to bash it too much, generally speaking the music structure is very simplistic. Lyrics cover subjects that are close to todays teens (depression, abuse, drugs etc). There are very few guitar solos and the one's that are there are typically very simple and short. Vocals can range from the more metal influenced to a fusion of metal and rap. Guitars are often downtuned or drop tuned. This genre is generally not very popular among listeners of other metal music, but it is the newest craze and therefore very promoted and heavily played on the radio. Bands: Slipknot, Mudvayne, System Of A Down, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.


Again...this is NOT a definitive list. It not by any stretch of the imagination complete. I'm sure if we really wanted to we could come up with a good 20 or so more sub-genres. It is meant as a general guideline for the noob who's just getting into metal that otherwise would have posted a "What's the difference" thread. Feel free to agree or disagree. With any genre, there are bands that cross over and blur the lines. Your best bet if you're new to any genre of metal is to go out find a list of bands in the genre you're interested in. Download a couple songs from a bunch of different bands and then make your own distinctions.

ninjamonkey
03-27-2004, 02:12 PM
excellent

DrummerVin
03-27-2004, 02:15 PM
That's really very good. Cant believe someone finally took the time to do it, there have been a lot of posts regarding this in the past week or so.

This definately needs to be stickied.

Berner
03-27-2004, 02:17 PM
I like it, but I feel some key artists are missing. All in all awesome list :thumb:

RockBassist89
03-27-2004, 02:17 PM
bravo :thumb:

Ve Das
03-27-2004, 02:23 PM
Kick.Mallcore.OFF.THAT.LIST!!!

The definition of prog is twofold.One is the one you´ve already posted,while the other would simply be "metal that is progressive considering it´s release".Basically,all "genre-coiners" as well as bands such as Anacrusis and Therion can be considered prog.I would also list Judas Priest as a large influence on thrash,even more so than Sabbath,especially later on.

epifreak2002
03-27-2004, 02:51 PM
What about hardcore? Or is that considered closer to punk? I only ask because I haven't heard alot of it, and what I have heard hasn't impressed me that much. It feels like death metal-esque vocals pasted over punk guitar, which to me, is the worst of two genres. I'm probably wrong, so if someone could post a good definition of it, that'd be great.

Ve Das
03-27-2004, 03:04 PM
hardcore is punk attitude with fast,simple guitars.

FASTER guitars.

epifreak2002
03-27-2004, 03:09 PM
^You just described punk.

ludz
03-27-2004, 03:30 PM
Great List, But:

I think there should be definitions for the "cores". Hardcore, Metalcore etc.

I think, and many people will agree with me, that Nu-Metal should be called something else. I like Crossover. And System of a Down shouldn't be on that list. Not by a long shot. People only call them Nu-Metal because they came out the same time as all those other bands. Except for the down-tuned guitars they don't fit into that group.

superpeer
03-27-2004, 03:45 PM
Great Job, Legions. :thumb:

Cardboard Headgear
03-27-2004, 03:49 PM
Yes they do.

EDIT: to the guy talking about System of a Down.

Nicholas Sutton
03-27-2004, 03:59 PM
Yeah System of a Down is nu metal no matter how hard you try to say otherwise.

Very good list man...verrry good list.

UserNamesSuck
03-27-2004, 04:04 PM
awesome list...that should help out alot of newer members here

macka319
03-27-2004, 04:11 PM
good list

10eighty
03-27-2004, 04:24 PM
very well done! great job

perrymasonsaxe
03-27-2004, 05:03 PM
Very good list. It explained the difference between between black and death metal, now i get it. I think ya could've trashed nu metal a little bit more.

Skeksis
03-27-2004, 06:11 PM
What about Power Metal?

UserNamesSuck
03-27-2004, 07:30 PM
lets bump this thread everyonce in awhile untill nacho or kabz stickies it so it doesnt fall back through the pages

br3ad_man
03-27-2004, 07:47 PM
Thats a great list.....we also need Power Metal and Hair Metal. There are prolly others, but thats what I can think of now.

Per Ardua Ad Astra
03-27-2004, 08:00 PM
Great job Legions :thumb:

LegionsofMarduk
03-27-2004, 08:56 PM
wow...I honestly didn't expect this to go over as well. I wasn't trying to hit every single sub-genre. I was just going for the one's that are asked about frequently here.

tapdancingmonkey
03-27-2004, 09:17 PM
nice list. Never knew what the difference between Black and Death Metal was. Thanks for clearing that up

Tangy zizzle
03-27-2004, 09:28 PM
Can we get definitions for Alternative Metal, Grindcore and Avant-Garde Metal??

non-conformist
03-27-2004, 10:54 PM
:thumb: on the list :smoke:

i think if anyone would like to make descriptions of other sub-generas, they should post em, and then you, legions, or a mod could add them to the first post, thus making it better and better :)

HappyMarshmellow
03-28-2004, 12:01 AM
Grind is all about speed, agression, complex or unusual song structures. In general, the riffs are short but of advanced technicality, the songs are very dynamic (changing pace about every 20 seconds), the drumming is very fast, and the screaming is just normal "scream your lungs off" stuff.

A "true" grind song probably doesn't go over three minutes. The shortest grind song I've heard was 5 seconds long, and there are many in the range of 30, 20, or 10 seconds. Typically, however, a grind song is about a minute and a half long.

There is probably no such thing as a "melodic grind" song, since grind emphasizes brutality, speed, and chaos.

Key groups: early Carcass, Pig Destroyer, Repulsion, early Death, Napalm Death, Burnt By The Sun (very nice live, I had the honor of witnessing), etc.

A more potent subsidary to Grind is Noise. Noise groups typically use drum machines at extreme speeds, they don't sing but rather bark or gurgle, they tend to utilize a lot of samples in their songs (wether it be an integral part or an intro/outro), and in general play as loud and fast as they can.

Groups include: The Berzerker, Fuck... I'm Dead, Lucifer D. Larynx and the Satanic Grind Dogs of Death, Mortician, Abandoned Grave, Ab-Norm, etc.

Det_Nosnip
03-28-2004, 01:57 AM
I honestly believe that you slammed nu-metal a bit too much, although you did manage to sum up most of the misconceptions about the genre from main-line metalheads. :)

You mentioned System of a Down and Mudvayne as nu-metal, under the description "generally speaking the music structure is very simplistic. Lyrics cover subjects that are close to todays teens (depression, abuse, drugs etc)." "Vocals can range from the more metal influenced to a fusion of metal and rap."

This is simply not the case. You also put Godsmack under "traditional heavy metal," despite the fact that they're just as heavily imbedded in the nu-metal crowd, and I would in fact consider them one of the quinticential nu-metal bands. Note: I'm not trying to argue that SOAD and Mudvayne are not nu-metal.

SOAD's lyrics touch on a number of political and philosophical issues, and are actually quite deep...once you actually understand them. Alot of the true meaning behind the lyrics is at times superbly concealed, allowing for critics to easily pass it off as childish, stupid, and pointless. Alot of the lyrics are also rather vague and open to interpretation, with a good deal of Avant Guarde influences.

For example...from the song, "Know":
"I will never feed off the evergreen luster of your heart
all because we all live in the valley of the walls
when we speak we can peak from the windows of their mouths
to see the land the women chant as they fly up to the sun.

"Books all say different things while people flap their yellow wings
trying to soar by being a wholre of life and almost everything the
sheep that ran off from the herd may be dead but now's a bird able
to fly able to die able to **** your mother's earth"

Mudvayne is another terrific example of a band that is definetly classified as nu-metal yet meets very few of your criterion. Simple song structures and music? Not quite. Ryan Martini isn't exactly a bare-bones bass player, nor Matt Donahue an average drummer; and, as an example, 17/8 isn't exactly "common time." Sure, they don't take it to the level of Spastic Ink or Spiral Architect, but their music IS a good deal more complex than many other genres of metal.

I'm not going to sit here and defend every band classified as "nu-metal" that I happen to enjoy...that would take forever. Why? Because there is an immeasurable amount of information that can be mounted in defense of these artists, and I don't have that much time. Suffice it to say, while a good number of nu-metal artists aren't even worth bothering a listen, there are also plenty of bands that are doing some very interesting things with their instruments today, musicians who don't deserve to be passed off as they typically are by many metalheads.

Bass_ment
03-28-2004, 03:02 AM
You got a good list here Legions but i still think sub-genres suck.
If you like it, listen to it, if you dont leave it alone. Thats my philosophy.

and Again good job.

Maveryck
03-28-2004, 03:37 AM
Very nice work Legions. :thumb:

I would include Power Metal and maybe Industrial Metal as separate genres, but that's just me.

Dante's Inferno (Thy Cursed)
03-28-2004, 06:13 AM
I'd call Opeth prog more than death, but aside from that :thumb:

lukeyj
03-28-2004, 06:33 AM
You also put Godsmack under "traditional heavy metal," despite the fact that they're just as heavily imbedded in the nu-metal crowd, and I would in fact consider them one of the quinticential nu-metal bands.

I was just about to say something along those lines aswell.

Also out of random curiousity where would pantera go?

TheUnavoidable
03-28-2004, 06:41 AM
Also out of random curiousity where would pantera go?

Thrash probably.

The JoZ
03-28-2004, 01:18 PM
...I actually like that he put Godsmack into the heavy metal section, because I don't think Godsmack fits the Nu Metal mold. Neither does SOAD or Mudvayne, but I'm not here to argue that, really. I do like the fact that you included such bands, however, because unlike tr00 metalheads, I think it is a type of metal. Don't turn this into a bash me thread though, please. Flame me elsewhere if you wish

I think including Power Metal would've been good, since alot of people (like me) knew nothing about it till I got on these boards.

And not to start another argument about Tool, but where would you, personally, classify them? I notice you didn't list them in Prog Metal, so while some disagree as to whether they really are or are not prog...where do you classify them? I ask Legions only, so I don't want 40 responses arguing with me over where they should fit

Kaden
03-28-2004, 02:52 PM
Industrial Metal:
I've often heard industrial metal compared to techno, mainly because it has prevalent use of synthesizers as a major instrument. It takes cues from 80's industrial dance music that was popular in the club scene, and adds metal guitars to create an aggresive effect. Industrial metal is meant to create a very bleak atmoshpere. The lyrics are aggresive and very, very angst-ridden, and the angry atmoshpere is used to further the theme of social alienation. The genre was mainly underground until Nine Inch Nails broke through into the mainstream with the album Pretty Hate Machine.

Key bands: Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppy, Fear Factory, Orgy, Godflesh, etc. etc.

LegionsofMarduk
03-28-2004, 04:49 PM
...I actually like that he put Godsmack into the heavy metal section, because I don't think Godsmack fits the Nu Metal mold. Neither does SOAD or Mudvayne, but I'm not here to argue that, really. I do like the fact that you included such bands, however, because unlike tr00 metalheads, I think it is a type of metal. Don't turn this into a bash me thread though, please. Flame me elsewhere if you wish

I think including Power Metal would've been good, since alot of people (like me) knew nothing about it till I got on these boards.

And not to start another argument about Tool, but where would you, personally, classify them? I notice you didn't list them in Prog Metal, so while some disagree as to whether they really are or are not prog...where do you classify them? I ask Legions only, so I don't want 40 responses arguing with me over where they should fit

The reason I put Godsmack in Heavy Metal and not nu-metal is because even though their songs are drop tuned and relatively simple, the vocals are a lot closer to that of more traditional metal that those of nu-metal. And they have guitar solos in almost every song. No they may not be all out shred solos, but the solos are there and they're longer than a few short notes.

As far as Tool goes...I really don't know what I'd call them. The only 2 albums I have are Undertow and Aenima (sp?) which are kind of hard to really classify. I'd always called them hard rock but that's just me.

The JoZ
03-28-2004, 06:58 PM
The reason I put Godsmack in Heavy Metal and not nu-metal is because even though their songs are drop tuned and relatively simple, the vocals are a lot closer to that of more traditional metal that those of nu-metal. And they have guitar solos in almost every song. No they may not be all out shred solos, but the solos are there and they're longer than a few short notes.

As far as Tool goes...I really don't know what I'd call them. The only 2 albums I have are Undertow and Aenima (sp?) which are kind of hard to really classify. I'd always called them hard rock but that's just me.

I totally agree on Godsmack..

Tool is kind of hard to classify sometimes...Opiate and Undertow are mainly hard rock albums, with dark edges to them...Lateralus is a prog album to most people, which leaves Aenima. I think Aenima is a hard rock/prog album, because of songs like Eulogy, Aenima and Third Eye which are somewhat to really progressive, and hard rock songs like Stinkfist, 46 and 2, Hooker. So...

I've always said Tool was their own genre anyway :D

br3ad_man
03-28-2004, 10:32 PM
Ok, here are all the genres of metal listed on allmusic.com:

Power Metal
Punk Metal
Stoner Metal
Scandinavian Metal
Doom Metal
New Wave of British Heavy M
Symphonic Black Metal
Pop-Metal
Neo-Classical Metal
Progressive Metal (done)
Industrial Metal (done)
British Metal
Alternative Metal
Funk Metal
Hair Metal
Thrash (done)
Death Metal/Black Metal (done)
Grindcore (done)
Speed Metal (done)

I wrote “done? next to the ones I’m pretty sure are done….everyone should feel free to write definitions.

Once they are all done, Marduk should edit his original post to include all the genres

metdrummer
03-29-2004, 02:35 AM
I woulda said Opeth as Melodic...

LordDargon
03-29-2004, 06:06 AM
Thrash metal
Thrash really started to come into play in the early 1980's. It was in one way, an answer to the more popular "hair metal" bands of the time. Thrash grew out of older metal such as Black Sabbath combined with chunkier riffs, speed, agrresive vocals, and even some punk. Thrash metal is concentrated more heavily on speed and aggression than it's predacessors. Key bands: Metallica (old stuff), Slayer, Anthrax, Kreator, Sodom, Megadeth, Exodus, Overkill, Nuclear Assault, Sabbat (UK), Darkane etc etc.

Thats Speed Metal. (although those bands are thrash.) Thrash riffs are almost completely open-E based. Thrash is also faster, heavier, and more agressive than speed metal. And you didn't get the best thrash band of all time,
DARK FUCKING ANGEL!

EDIT:
I wasnt being rude, you turd. :p (epifreak)

epifreak2002
03-29-2004, 09:36 AM
So he didn't mention your favorite band; that's no excuse to be rude. You can mention the band and your difference of opinion and still remain civil. Watch:

In my opinion, your definition for thrash metal fits speed metal better. Thrash metal riffs are almost always E-based, and thrash is typically heavier, faster, and more aggresive than speed metal. Dark Angel (I'm assuming ****ing wasn't part of their actual band name.) is another band that would fit this genre well.

Now, was that so hard?

DoktorShred
03-29-2004, 01:25 PM
good read....but add powermetal please :)

Also i think you should say in the traditional metal that european/british, and american styles vary greatly (british more focussed on melodic vocals and twin guitar work whereas american usually has more brutal vocals and a distinct separation between rhythm and lead guitars like iced earth and metallica)

LordDargon
03-29-2004, 04:31 PM
^ hm, you're right! I never noticed that!

unflea
03-29-2004, 05:11 PM
^^ If that's true, it's likely due to American metal being heavily influenced by the hardcore punk of the time... most of the "American metal" you're referencing has slightly more technical hxc punk guitar for the rhythm parts, and more "traditional European" lead guitars.

sacrifice93.2
03-31-2004, 11:33 AM
Good job Legions. :thumb:
Finally someone agrees with me that Godsmack is not mallcore.

TrailOfTragedy
03-31-2004, 01:45 PM
If anyone should do hardcore and all its sub-genres...it should be Bigsby.

Or me in a close second:p

Mr. Squeegee
03-31-2004, 07:53 PM
Wow, excellent list there Legions :thumb:
I was always confused about black/death metal...always been a prog-head myself though :)

I've always said Tool was their own genre anyway :D

I would completely agree :chug:

br3ad_man
03-31-2004, 10:03 PM
DARK FUCKING ANGEL!




Just settle down, hey?

axeslinga_32
04-01-2004, 12:53 AM
MetalCore:

a subgenre of hardcore (the most brutal from of punk), vocals are screamed and music is fast and simple. Usually very Metal-ish riffs and breakdowns sometimes containing pinch harmonics, with the structure of hardcore songs. Bands include Atreyu, early Avenged Sevenfold, from autumn to ashes, Poison the well.

axeslinga_32
04-01-2004, 01:04 AM
Hair Metal:

80's pop metal. Typical party music, vocals are sung cleanly and cheesy backing vocals shouted by about 5 or 6 guys are generally evident. Hair metal is highly focused on image, hence the name. Big hair, spandex and high amounts of make up are big factors that make up the hair metal image. Lyrical topics generally include girls, love, partying, cars etc. Guitar riffs are usually simple and cheesy, drums are simple and so is bass. there are usually cheesy show-off guitar solos throughout hair-metal songs as well. Bands include Motley Crue, Poison, Ratt, Van Halen and twisted sister.

deftoned
04-01-2004, 01:23 AM
^ Van Halen aren't hair metal, brah. They were before it. Other hair metal bands: Skid Row, Autograph, Dokken, Def Leppard, Nelson etc.

Neo classical metal; Bands that encompass the influence of both classical compositions and traditional heavy metal elements into their music. Neo-classical metal is usually very melodic, and the musicianship is very high. Neo-classical metal had the height of it's popularity during the 1980's. Key bands: early Ozzy Osbourne, Yngwie Malmsteen, early Symphony X (also filed under prog-metal, whilst the huge classical influence is there), Stratovarius, Angra etc.

Funk metal: Bands that make use of both metal and funk elements into their music. The songs are usually driven by a slap funk bass line, with crunchy, palm muted metallic guitars. The drums are usually funk based, and the vocals are either rapped or shouted. Funk metal had an undeniably huge influence upon rock music of the last ten years. Key Bands: Infectious Grooves, RATM (heavier than rap rock ie RHCP), Electric Boys etc

Tangy zizzle
04-01-2004, 03:19 AM
Alternative Metal:

A form of metal which can encompass many other sub-genres of metal itself, or sounds from completely different genres. Usually bands which are harder to place ( ie. dont really resemble DM,Black Metal, Prog, Power...) on the metal spectrum are considered alternative metal.

These are some bands which I consider alternative metal. Correct me if you disagree
Tomahawk, Deftones, A Perfect Circle, Tool, Fantomas, Helmet, Faith No More, Mr Bungle, (early) Incubus, Oceansize(sometimes), System of A Down.

DoktorShred
04-01-2004, 04:00 AM
^ Van Halen aren't hair metal, brah. They were before it. Other hair metal bands: Skid Row, Autograph, Dokken, Def Leppard, Nelson etc.

Neo classical metal; Bands that encompass the influence of both classical compositions and traditional heavy metal elements into their music. Neo-classical metal is usually very melodic, and the musicianship is very high. Neo-classical metal had the height of it's popularity during the 1980's. Key bands: early Ozzy Osbourne, Yngwie Malmsteen, early Symphony X (also filed under prog-metal, whilst the huge classical influence is there), Stratovarius, Angra etc.

Funk metal: Bands that make use of both metal and funk elements into their music. The songs are usually driven by a slap funk bass line, with crunchy, palm muted metallic guitars. The drums are usually funk based, and the vocals are either rapped or shouted. Funk metal had an undeniably huge influence upon rock music of the last ten years. Key Bands: Infectious Grooves, RATM (heavier than rap rock ie RHCP), Electric Boys etc

You can basically file neo classical metal under powermetal. I see it more as an influence rather than a genre.

Ramsey
04-01-2004, 04:29 AM
a mod should go in and delete the other meaningless posts (including this one) so that we can just have a list of the important genres from marduk, axeslinga etc...

deftoned
04-01-2004, 06:19 AM
You can basically file neo classical metal under powermetal. I see it more as an influence rather than a genre.
True, but I still see a distinct difference between Yngwie and Ozzy to Iced Earth. The influences are similar, but I still think there's a difference, but the genres do overlap.

DoktorShred
04-01-2004, 09:47 AM
True, but I still see a distinct difference between Yngwie and Ozzy to Iced Earth. The influences are similar, but I still think there's a difference, but the genres do overlap.

I dont consider iced earth even remotely neo classical or powermetal...

morten
04-01-2004, 11:24 AM
http://www.metal-reference.com/preface.html

br3ad_man
04-01-2004, 04:14 PM
a mod should go in and delete the other meaningless posts (including this one) so that we can just have a list of the important genres from marduk, axeslinga etc...

Either that, or Marduk should copy them all into his original post. Either way, we need to have ALL the definitions before it happens.

br3ad_man
04-01-2004, 04:43 PM
Gothic Metal (I'm no metal expert, so someone do another one if mines inaccurate):

Gothic metal is an extension of Gothic Rock, which originated around the early 80s. The godfathers of gothic rock were Joy Divison. Gothic Metal is often very atmospheric and includes female vocals and keyboards very often (though not always). Gothic Metal takes the bleak and icy atmospherics of Gothic Rock, and mixes them with the aggression and loud instruments of Metal. Lyrics are often (but not always) about religion, romantic issues, mysticism and horror. Gothic music has a dress style, which was mainly taken from post punk bands of the 70s, such as The Cure and Siouxie and the Banshees. Bands include: Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, (arguably) Evanescence, The Gathering and Type O Negative.

deftoned
04-01-2004, 09:53 PM
I dont consider iced earth even remotely neo classical or powermetal...
I consider them to be power, and I was saying that they don't sound like neo classical, ie early Ozzy.

ludz
04-02-2004, 12:47 AM
I would really like a good definition of Hardcore. I'm still unsure what exactly it encompasses.

deftoned
04-02-2004, 12:58 AM
REAL, ORIGINAL HARDCORE: Bands that had the punk sound and attitude, but with faster and slightly heavier guitars. The songs were usually very short and more brutal than punk. Vocals were usually shouted, fast guitars, usually 3 chords, and very quick basslines. The drumming is very frenetic and wild, and the movement began in Washington D.C. in the early 80s. Key Bands: Black Flag, Cro Mags, Minor Threat, Discharge, Crass etc.

"NU-HARDCORE": Get BuddyBigsby to write you a defintion, hes the new hardcore guru.

EDIT: The new hardcore music is the opposite of what the original hardcore set out to do..it was to bring music back to the basic 1 minute songs (punk anyone?). Newer hardcore encompasses 4 minute songs (usually) with heavy growls and heavier guitars. NH is known for it's use of "breakdowns", which usually involve swirling guitars, and softer vocals, as a replacement for solos, in some instances. NH is very popular with teenagers (mostly male) now a days.

p3nnywi5dom
04-02-2004, 01:31 AM
That clears up alot.

deftoned
04-02-2004, 04:10 AM
Are you being sarcastic..or..?

sacrifice93.2
04-02-2004, 02:10 PM
http://www.metal-reference.com/preface.html

Good reference. I think that if anyone still has questions, this site explains it very well. Dargon, I think they mentioned Dark Angel in Thrash, so don't worry.

LordDargon
04-02-2004, 02:22 PM
^ He may have added it. It wasn't there before.

I just don't want the greatest thrash band of all time to be left out.+

Seven Inch Nails
04-02-2004, 03:43 PM
Tangy:


These are some bands which I consider alternative metal. Correct me if you disagree
Tomahawk, Deftones, A Perfect Circle, Tool, Fantomas, Helmet, Faith No More, Mr Bungle, (early) Incubus, Oceansize(sometimes), System of A Down.

Faith No more and Incubus ( yes the early) are funk metal definately

epifreak2002
04-02-2004, 04:12 PM
Deftones and SOAD fit more into nu-metal if you ask me. Please don't sap nu-metal of the few good artists it has by classifying them as something else.

Kaden
04-02-2004, 04:22 PM
Deftones and SOAD fit more into nu-metal if you ask me. Please don't sap nu-metal of the few good artists it has by classifying them as something else.
This is a problem I have with the way people view nu-metal. They see it as an insult to be labelled nu-metal, and any bands they like that fit the nu-metal criteria they automatically label as something else. There are good nu-metal bands, just like there are bad ones, accept it and move on.

Scuba Taco
04-02-2004, 04:53 PM
I wouldnt put Slipknot and Mudvayne in the Nu-Metal catagory. Even tho they are newer bands, they both have Talent, unlike System of a Down, Linkin Park and P.O.D. I like to think of them as different, not crap.

br3ad_man
04-02-2004, 05:44 PM
^^^ I disagree :thumb:

deftoned
04-02-2004, 08:28 PM
Deftones, whilst retaining the "typical" song structure, can be more brutal, and also more articulate than standard nu-metal. This has won Maynard over for them, who's a big fan. Deftones also draw from more obscure influences: ie the Smiths, Depeche Mode etc.

I would put Slipknot and Mudvayne as nu-metal, even though Mudvayne is more technical than say, Linkin Park, their fan base is pretty much the same. This is unfortunately why Deftones are lumped as nu-metal, but Deftones are still a step above the rest :thumb:

Tangy zizzle
04-02-2004, 08:42 PM
I call Deftones alternative-metal, I hate to see them in the same category as Linkin Park, Trapt, Nickelback etc...

deftoned
04-02-2004, 08:53 PM
Yeah I do too, but I'm explaining why most people call them nu-metal :( Because unfortunately their fan base is similar. Deftones are more complex, artistic, lyrically binded, and more talented than Linkin Park etc. :thumb: I know you've always been a big Deftones fan!

Metallica6915
04-02-2004, 10:04 PM
The Black Metal one was perfect.

epifreak2002
04-02-2004, 11:43 PM
Yeah I do too, but I'm explaining why most people call them nu-metal :( Because unfortunately their fan base is similar. Deftones are more complex, artistic, lyrically binded, and more talented than Linkin Park etc. :thumb: I know you've always been a big Deftones fan!


That's why I said don't take away the few good nu-metal bands out there because that's what Deftones are, nu-metal. Like it or not, nu-metal is a valid genre, and refusing to label a band as nu-metal simply because they are technically proficient, creative, or intelligent lyrically defies the very genre system to its roots. There have always been genre benders, bands who fit best into a particular genre but stray outside of it, and that's essentially what Deftones are for nu-metal. Also, listen to Slipknot, Deftones, and then Incubus and tell me that the Deftones fit better with Incubus than Slipknot.

br3ad_man
04-03-2004, 12:19 AM
^^^ Some good points.

deftoned
04-03-2004, 12:27 AM
The Deftones do fit bitter with Incubus than Slipknot..(I'm being serious here). Deftones and Incubus are move innovative than bands such as Slipknot, and while they're not the same, they're closer than Deftones and Slipknot. I know Deftones fit into nu-metal, but also break out of the traditional mould, so it's what you call it.

moridin
04-03-2004, 04:03 AM
really good list. thanx a lot Legions!!
where would a band like orphaned land fit in the genres?

The Digital Pimp
04-03-2004, 04:27 AM
wow I'm learning a lot here... can anyone classify what genre Finger Eleven fits into? I know their latest album leans towards nu-metal, but their older stuff is quite different...

TheMetalWorks
04-03-2004, 08:19 AM
I consider them to be power, and I was saying that they don't sound like neo classical, ie early Ozzy.Ozzy is neoclassical? I beg to differ. His music sounds nothing like Yngwie Malmsteen.

JustCoolMusic
04-03-2004, 01:57 PM
What about Childeren of Bodom, Unearth, Soil Work, Lullacry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BuddyBigsby
04-03-2004, 03:41 PM
What about Childeren of Bodom, Unearth, Soil Work, Lullacry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CoB = Power metal with melodic death vocals

Unearth = Metalcore

Soilwork = Formerly melodic death, now hard rock/metal

Lullacry = If I recall correctly, power metal, but it's been a long time since I last listened to them.

LordDargon
04-03-2004, 04:09 PM
What about Childeren of Bodom, Unearth, Soil Work, Lullacry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leave some exclamation marks for the rest of us, junior

:rolleyes:

BuddyBigsby
04-03-2004, 04:14 PM
REAL, ORIGINAL HARDCORE: Bands that had the punk sound and attitude, but with faster and slightly heavier guitars. The songs were usually very short and more brutal than punk. Vocals were usually shouted, fast guitars, usually 3 chords, and very quick basslines. The drumming is very frenetic and wild, and the movement began in Washington D.C. in the early 80s. Key Bands: Black Flag, Cro Mags, Minor Threat, Discharge, Crass etc.

"NU-HARDCORE": Get BuddyBigsby to write you a defintion, hes the new hardcore guru.

EDIT: The new hardcore music is the opposite of what the original hardcore set out to do..it was to bring music back to the basic 1 minute songs (punk anyone?). Newer hardcore encompasses 4 minute songs (usually) with heavy growls and heavier guitars. NH is known for it's use of "breakdowns", which usually involve swirling guitars, and softer vocals, as a replacement for solos, in some instances. NH is very popular with teenagers (mostly male) now a days.

Hahaha, thanks Deftoned. You did a nice job on the OG hardcore definition. Cro-Mags are the shizzy.

Modern hardcore = Similar to the earlier hardcore likes of Black Flag, Minor Threat and such, but since then the genre has matured to have longer song times (usually 2-4 minutes), more of a metal influence (but it's not metalcore, I'll touch on that in a bit), and sometimes screaming vocals. Also, modern hardcore has one key ingredient that can not be found in the original incarnation of hardcore: The Breakdown. Breakdown's are usually made up of open chord palm muting, and are intended for moshing. Download "The Great Red Shift" by Most Precious Blood and listen to the ending for a perfect example of this. There are however, many modern hardcore bands that still play hardcore the way it used to be, such as Good Clean Fun and Hit the Deck. Modern hardcore bands: Most Precious Blood, old Hatebreed (they can still be considered hardcore, but it must be noted they have a STRONG metal presence in their music with galloping riffs, Slayer-like leads, and double bass), Bane, Comeback Kid, Throwdown, Count Me Out, Bury Your Dead, 100 Demons, Give Up the Ghost/American Nightmare, Stretch Armstrong, Walls of Jericho (same thing as Hatebreed, though), The Hope Conspiracy, Terror, etc.

Metalcore = The most popular spin-off of hardcore, metalcore takes the sound of modern hardcore, and basically adds more metal to the sound. However, the majority of metalcore has much more in common with death metal and melodic death metal than it does with traditional hardcore, and there is usually STRONG European-metal influence. It should also be noted that metal bands can are often mistakenly grouped into metalcore simply because of who their members are and who they tour with, or because they have the occasional breakdown (so did Pantera, so are they metalcore?). These metal bands are the likes of Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, Avenged Sevenfold (though their first CD had metalcore influence), and so on. Metalcore bands: As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, Blood Has Been Shed, Killswitch Engage, Zao, Dead to Fall, Atreyu, On Broken Wings, Remembering Never, Symphony In Peril, Norma Jean.

Noisecore = Pretty self-explanatory. Very chaotic metalcore that is all over the place and is often very technical. Noisecore bands: Dillinger Escape Plan, Converge (on their last album), Every Time I Die (moreso on Last Night In Town than on [/I]Hot Damn![/I]

Emocore (modern) = Takes the root sound of either hardcore or metalcore, and adds artsy, clean guitar parts, clean vocals, lyrics dealing with lost love and such, etc. etc. For example, Poison the Well is emocore with a root sound of hardcore, while From Autumn to Ashes is emocore with a root sound of metalcore. This genre is often confused with screamo, which I will get to later. Emocore bands: Underoath (new stuff), Poison the Well, From Autumn to Ashes, Alexisonfire, Across Five Aprils, A Static Lullaby, Hopesfall, Thrice (more or less).

Screamo = And so here we are, the genre that everybody confuses with emocore. Screamo is in fact the extreme opposite of Emocore, as it is extremely chaotic. So what sets it apart from noisecore? Screamo has an underlying sense of beauty and a certain artsiness that is simply not found in noisecore. Like Black metal with death metal, this is one of those genres where you have to listen to to understand the difference. Screamo bands: Pg. 99, Kaospilot, Circle Takes the Square, Neil Perry, Love Lost But Not Forgotten, Saetia.

I think that pretty much covers the "-core's". There's some smaller sub-genres like Straight Edge hardcore, NYHC, Tough guy, and melodic hardcore.

deftoned
04-03-2004, 07:02 PM
Ozzy is neoclassical? I beg to differ. His music sounds nothing like Yngwie Malmsteen.
The earliest incarnation of Ozzy..Randy Rhoads...His guitarwork is so dåmn neo-classical, it's not funny. Try and tell me theres not a large hint of classical influence upon the first two albums?

deftoned
04-03-2004, 07:05 PM
Hahaha, thanks Deftoned. You did a nice job on the OG hardcore definition. Cro-Mags are the shizzy.

Cheers :thumb: Gotta love the old hardcore, can't really dig the newer stuff, although I'm kinda into Zao. At least I took a shot at defining newer hardcore! lol

Disarm1979
04-03-2004, 08:28 PM
another key progressive band would be Rush :thumb:

epifreak2002
04-03-2004, 10:34 PM
wow I'm learning a lot here... can anyone classify what genre Finger Eleven fits into? I know their latest album leans towards nu-metal, but their older stuff is quite different...

I'd still call their older stuff nu-metal. It tended more towards sullen than angsty or overtly angry, and they did some pseudo-non-commercial sounding stuff in a couple of songs, but they're still nu-metal. Granted, their older two were better (Greyest of Blue Skies enjoyed regular play time for over a year with me.) On a pseudo-related note, am I the only one who has noticed that Finger Eleven makes the absolute worst videos ever? (They also try to release their least commercial songs as singles.) Good Times has some interresting camerawork, but all of their videos (except for First Time) just show them playing the song. They never show any story or anything along those lines.

deftoned
04-04-2004, 05:39 AM
^ Well..All videos Adam Jones' are involved in are incredible, and make fück all sense to everyone. :thumb:

Det_Nosnip
04-04-2004, 06:03 AM
another key progressive band would be Rush :thumb:

Rush are progressive, but definetly *not* progressive metal...this thread is about metal subgenres.

Disarm1979
04-04-2004, 11:31 AM
dang :upset:

Fender_Strat8915
04-04-2004, 03:39 PM
that was of alot of help to me.......excellent..superb

The Digital Pimp
04-05-2004, 03:47 AM
On a pseudo-related note, am I the only one who has noticed that Finger Eleven makes the absolute worst videos ever?

Yeah they aren't very creative, but I've seen some worse 'just the band performing' music videos (especially down here in New Zealand where budgets are very very thin for new bands), at least Finger use some interesting sets and camera angles/visual effects.

The absolute worst music vids are ones of a band playing in concert, while the CD-quality single plays over it. *shiver*

Firecracker
04-05-2004, 10:22 AM
lush thanks.

2cool_4school
04-05-2004, 06:00 PM
Noticed your post - have a few problems. Main problem - no mention of grindcore. Your list isn't complete without one of the best, if hardest to pull off, subgenres of deathmetal. C'mon, Nazum, Circle of Dead Children, even good ol Napalm Death (hehehe) and various other bands make other "BRUTAL" band sound sad... just sad.

Heavy Metal? Scratch Shadowsfall, I'm not a huge fan but they come from a more metal core background (think Overcast). Godsmack.. heavy metal? I nearly flipped my powdered wig when I read that.

Last note, melodic metal is lame. At the gates was the only band that could really pull off such sillyness. I won't bore anyone with my favorite bands, honestly who cares. I blame several labels for pushing total garbage onto the "metal community" (those that give money to richer people) and anyone who would sign Mortician. If you read this forum and you like Mortician stop buying their CD's! They are horrible - 5th graders write better lyrics.

ONE

The JoZ
04-05-2004, 06:11 PM
...I read the arguments about the Deftones and nu metal...

Honestly, I think they and bands like SOAD and Mudvayne would fit better into alt-metal more than anything...quite honestly, those bands, at least here, get alot less radio time than alot of other nu metal bands...

I think more bands should go into the heavy or alternative metal genres...they are both underused...and Nu metal needs to be defined a bit better I think, because it's still a bit too vague to be concise (yeah that's redundant)...

BuddyBigsby
04-05-2004, 06:23 PM
Noticed your post - have a few problems. Main problem - no mention of grindcore. Your list isn't complete without one of the best, if hardest to pull off, subgenres of deathmetal. C'mon, Nazum, Circle of Dead Children, even good ol Napalm Death (hehehe) and various other bands make other "BRUTAL" band sound sad... just sad.

Heavy Metal? Scratch Shadowsfall, I'm not a huge fan but they come from a more metal core background (think Overcast). Godsmack.. heavy metal? I nearly flipped my powdered wig when I read that.

Last note, melodic metal is lame. At the gates was the only band that could really pull off such sillyness. I won't bore anyone with my favorite bands, honestly who cares. I blame several labels for pushing total garbage onto the "metal community" (those that give money to richer people) and anyone who would sign Mortician. If you read this forum and you like Mortician stop buying their CD's! They are horrible - 5th graders write better lyrics.

ONE

- It's Nasum.

- Shadows Fall are metal. They have members of Overcast but guess what.... they aren't Overcast.

- Godsmack can be considered metal. Just because it sucks doesn't mean it's not metal.

Kaden
04-05-2004, 08:18 PM
Noticed your post - have a few problems. Main problem - no mention of grindcore. Your list isn't complete without one of the best, if hardest to pull off, subgenres of deathmetal. C'mon, Nazum, Circle of Dead Children, even good ol Napalm Death (hehehe) and various other bands make other "BRUTAL" band sound sad... just sad.

Heavy Metal? Scratch Shadowsfall, I'm not a huge fan but they come from a more metal core background (think Overcast). Godsmack.. heavy metal? I nearly flipped my powdered wig when I read that.

Last note, melodic metal is lame. At the gates was the only band that could really pull off such sillyness. I won't bore anyone with my favorite bands, honestly who cares. I blame several labels for pushing total garbage onto the "metal community" (those that give money to richer people) and anyone who would sign Mortician. If you read this forum and you like Mortician stop buying their CD's! They are horrible - 5th graders write better lyrics.

ONE
For Christ's sake, calm down. The list isn't meant to be complete, add your own definition of grindcore. And no one really cares what you think of melodic metal.

And last of all, People who wear powdered wigs are phagg0rts.

MAGGOT-666
04-05-2004, 08:54 PM
Excellent work legions :thumb:

adeftfan
04-05-2004, 10:37 PM
For Christ's sake, calm down. The list isn't meant to be complete, add your own definition of grindcore. And no one really cares what you think of melodic metal.

And last of all, People who wear powdered wigs are phagg0rts.

i didnt see one exclamation point in that whole paragraph.....where did you derive that the fella was uppety about anything you closet powdered wig wearer.

deftoned
04-06-2004, 02:06 AM
Yeah they aren't very creative, but I've seen some worse 'just the band performing' music videos (especially down here in New Zealand where budgets are very very thin for new bands), at least Finger use some interesting sets and camera angles/visual effects.
hahah especially Blindspott's videos, they suck.

The Digital Pimp
04-06-2004, 02:44 AM
An old mxtabs.net article had this nu-metal description which imo sums it up nicely:

"The music is more raw and aggressive than the Metal of the 80s and 90s. There is generally an absence of a guitar solo, and more emphasis placed upon the rhythm guitar."

To that I'd add bits from your definition:

"Guitars are often downtuned or drop tuned. Song structure is simplistic, most often verse-chorus alternation or verse-chorus-bridge. Vocals are often highly melodic and can be a fusion of metal and rap. Lyrics generally cover emotions that today's teenagers can relate to, eg rebellion, depression, abuse, drugs. Bands include: Slipknot, Mudvayne, Finger Eleven, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.


While nu-metal is probably the most recently evolving subgenre, I wouldn't call it the 'newest craze to hit the radio', nu-metal has been around since around the mid 90s and has been established as an actual genre, rather than a gimmick.

deftoned
04-06-2004, 04:20 AM
Nu-metal is nowhere more raw and agressive than 80s and 90s metal. If anything its more watered down and polished.

epifreak2002
04-06-2004, 08:09 AM
^Def Lepard anyone?

HappyMarshmellow
04-06-2004, 08:09 AM
Noticed your post - have a few problems. Main problem - no mention of grindcore. Your list isn't complete without one of the best, if hardest to pull off, subgenres of deathmetal. C'mon, Nazum, Circle of Dead Children, even good ol Napalm Death (hehehe) and various other bands make other "BRUTAL" band sound sad... just sad.

Heavy Metal? Scratch Shadowsfall, I'm not a huge fan but they come from a more metal core background (think Overcast). Godsmack.. heavy metal? I nearly flipped my powdered wig when I read that.

Last note, melodic metal is lame. At the gates was the only band that could really pull off such sillyness. I won't bore anyone with my favorite bands, honestly who cares. I blame several labels for pushing total garbage onto the "metal community" (those that give money to richer people) and anyone who would sign Mortician. If you read this forum and you like Mortician stop buying their CD's! They are horrible - 5th graders write better lyrics.

ONE

Mortician are great! Sure, it's very simple crap compared to most stuff out there, but it's very good noise. I'm going to see them live when they come here, hoping to regain my animal instincts. They skip the bull and head right into the core of the agression.

Anyway, you don't know anything about grind. You forgot to mention Carcass. There's a ton of other groups out there which are just as good as Carcass, but the fact is 90% are all Carcass knock-offs.

2cool_4school
04-06-2004, 10:26 AM
- It's Nasum.

- Shadows Fall are metal. They have members of Overcast but guess what.... they aren't Overcast.

- Godsmack can be considered metal. Just because it sucks doesn't mean it's not metal.

- yes good work it is nasum.
- Shadows fall - they aren't Overcast but "guess what" the influences are still there. Shadows fall is metal core - not metal. A derivitive of something is not the original object.

- Godsmack is not metal. Godsmack is rock.. or hardrock.. or hard cock.. call it what you will just don't lump it together with remotely respectable "metal" bands.

the best definition of metal and its subgenres http://www.anus.com/metal/about/genre.html. Anything else leads to the path of gaydom.

and finally powdered wigs still rule

...owned

2cool_4school
04-06-2004, 10:42 AM
Mortician are great! Sure, it's very simple crap compared to most stuff out there, but it's very good noise. I'm going to see them live when they come here, hoping to regain my animal instincts. They skip the bull and head right into the core of the agression.

Anyway, you don't know anything about grind. You forgot to mention Carcass. There's a ton of other groups out there which are just as good as Carcass, but the fact is 90% are all Carcass knock-offs.

-that's cool that you enjoy such foolishness, but frankly Mortician is a joke. Normally I couldn't care less who listens to what but the fact is Mortician is so horribly pathetic that they should not be given any form of possitive reinforcment for an act that drags metal back to the days of mullets and acid washed jeans.

- There's a reason I "forgot" to mention carcass - they had one good album. I agree that 90 percent of all "grindcore" bands are knock - offs .. which is amazing because... get this.. Carcass sucks. On top of that - Carcass "knocked off" Napalm Death. Its no longer 1990.. the new Swedes have become effimenent , Norway sucks, and anything labeled melodic death metal is looking for easy money. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather listen to aforemented cd's from that time period but you have to know when to let it go man. Thankfully we can thank Texas (!) for Absu.. one of the best black metal bands ever .... period.

va_drumhead666
04-06-2004, 11:39 AM
what about
Metal Core, Hardcore, Doom Metal , Stoner Metal, Grindcore?
All in all very accurate list

sacrifice93.2
04-06-2004, 02:32 PM
- Godsmack is not metal. Godsmack is rock.. or hardrock.. or hard cock.. call it what you will just don't lump it together with remotely respectable "metal" bands.


You fucking noob. Godsmack is more metal than you, and they are a metal band. Get the hell off this site, you cum-guzzling road slut.

Exocrist
04-06-2004, 04:27 PM
if Godsmack had been around in the 80's, they'd be considered metal. personally, i think they can fit into either a higher classification of nu-metal, or into the simpler reigons of heavy metal.

Reasons for them being "Heavy Metal", some of these have been metioned before:
1. They actually have solos
2. Vocals are in a more "heavy metal" style than the "omfg i wanna scream" style of nu-metal
3. They dont go pushing the teen-angst image that most nu-metal bands go for.
there's more, but this is just off the top of my head.

2cool_4school
04-06-2004, 04:39 PM
You fucking noob. Godsmack is more metal than you, and they are a metal band. Get the hell off this site, you cum-guzzling road slut.

ya know what's cool - the band Anthrax. Fag.

2cool_4school
04-06-2004, 04:42 PM
if Godsmack had been around in the 80's, they'd be considered metal. personally, i think they can fit into either a higher classification of nu-metal, or into the simpler reigons of heavy metal.

Reasons for them being "Heavy Metal", some of these have been metioned before:
1. They actually have solos
2. Vocals are in a more "heavy metal" style than the "omfg i wanna scream" style of nu-metal
3. They dont go pushing the teen-angst image that most nu-metal bands go for.
there's more, but this is just off the top of my head.

good points - but Godsmack is still garbage

BuddyBigsby
04-06-2004, 05:26 PM
- yes good work it is nasum.
- Shadows fall - they aren't Overcast but "guess what" the influences are still there. Shadows fall is metal core - not metal. A derivitive of something is not the original object.

- Godsmack is not metal. Godsmack is rock.. or hardrock.. or hard cock.. call it what you will just don't lump it together with remotely respectable "metal" bands.

the best definition of metal and its subgenres http://www.anus.com/metal/about/genre.html. Anything else leads to the path of gaydom.

and finally powdered wigs still rule

...owned

I'll go with you on Godsmack, but I stand by what I said about Shadows Fall. Sure, they have breakdowns, but so did Pantera.

BillieJoe
04-06-2004, 05:47 PM
Well done... but i think like Metallica (for example) is Metallica, not trash metal (maybe it is, but is was just an example), many bands cannot be described with genres... :)

Kaden
04-06-2004, 05:51 PM
i didnt see one exclamation point in that whole paragraph.....where did you derive that the fella was uppety about anything you closet powdered wig wearer.
I didn't mean to imply that he was uppity about it, but that he seemed angry about the list.


2cool_4school, I gotta tell you, your opinions are not law. People can write about bands you don't like, and people can like bands you hate.

Thank you for telling me what to listen to, allmighty god of the internet.

h00t_h00t
04-06-2004, 06:29 PM
2cool_4school HAS to be a troll, nobody can be that stupid.

Here is my definition of a Sludgecore (WTF I hear you cry)
Sludgecore was made up by a bunch of journalists attempting to be "l33t3r dan j00" imo, but anyway. To me, Sludgecore sounds exactly like Death metal apart from two factors, the songs generally aren't as fast, and the guitars are distorted almost beyond recognition. There are about three sludgecore bands in the world, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Raging Speedhorn.

Please do not take the above definition too seriously, it is mostly opinion.

Ramsey
04-06-2004, 07:36 PM
I still think a mod should take the time to delete the useless posts (again, including this one) in this thread, and leave the real meat.

GaryDaNoTrashCougar
04-06-2004, 08:01 PM
I still think a mod should take the time to delete the useless posts (again, including this one) in this thread, and leave the real meat.
I second that. Just remove all posts except the posts that actually describe the genres.

epifreak2002
04-06-2004, 08:16 PM
Maybe they should wait until it gets a little longer, as some of these "useless" posts actually relate to the discussion, like for instance the discussion on the classification of the Deftones (page 4 I think).

BuddyBigsby
04-06-2004, 08:23 PM
Nah, I agree with the deletion suggestion.

Gernm18
04-06-2004, 09:11 PM
what about bands like rhapsody and stratovarious where do they go?

and what about cacophony? or guns n roses where do they go , also there's classic heavy metal like ac/dc and sabbath maybe guns n roses fit in that, i dont know somebody should edit this thread and make it perfect

sensitiveorgan00
04-06-2004, 09:14 PM
Rhapsody and Stratovarious are power metal.

AILD94
04-07-2004, 01:21 AM
EMOCORE METAL.............dont care wat u say it is out there and its alive

emo drop c riffs going into defining lyrics of despare love and hate


i live it, i play it

deftoned
04-07-2004, 04:37 AM
Dude, emo is not metal..Emo is for crybabies :)

2cool_4school
04-07-2004, 12:24 PM
If you want an accurate definite definition of metal by a group more informed than myself and certain anyone else on this forum visit the link I posted. anus.com is a very pertinent site to this "conversation" on metal and its sub-genres.

Someone mentioned that its "not important" to classify music.. this is garbage because if we can not classify something such as music we can not differentiate between what is good and bad (which is something everyone on this list does). In other words, if you think the music you are listening to is "good" then you have made a genre classification - and the name of this category just happens to be "good" (if you disagree with me on this issue your IQ must be scraping 80). Certainly it causes problems in terms of band-wagon bands (which is why I am very anti-melodic death metal) that pollutes a genre title with copy cat silliness and the record labels that sign and promote such horrible bands (Mortician, Six Feet Under and Nile off the top of my head...).

The original listing was for metal, and I realize that the fellow did not claim to be an expert or even feel to strongly about his post - this is fine. I am simply offering some very useful info - take it or leave it (and in ignorance many will leave it).

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/genre.html

deftoned
04-08-2004, 02:17 AM
So you're saying you need to make genres of bands? Of what is good and bad? Fair enough, but everyone has an opinion, you're not the god of classification. Let people like what they like and think whatever genre it is themselves. That classification of "good" is what someone personally likes, not a style of music. Good is not a genre. Metal, punk, rock, hip hop, pop, indie etc; these are genres. Do you really think in record stores that they would have a section called 'Good, 'Shît' and 'Average'? Didn't think so.

By the way, not every band out there is original, no matter how original you think it is, odds are its done before. There are always loads of bands that sound similar, and thats fine, as long as they make music that I like to listen to.

Ramsey
04-08-2004, 07:33 AM
^ /Agreed.


I love you deftoned.

deftoned
04-08-2004, 08:52 AM
*hugs chimaira* gHeYzOrS 4 LiFe!!111!!1!!111! :thumb: :lol:
2cool_4school - suck a wang, 4 x 2cool_4school < 1 Legions.

whallz
04-08-2004, 10:01 AM
industrial?

rexxz
04-08-2004, 07:15 PM
what about bands like rhapsody and stratovarious where do they go?

and what about cacophony? or guns n roses where do they go , also there's classic heavy metal like ac/dc and sabbath maybe guns n roses fit in that, i dont know somebody should edit this thread and make it perfect

Guns N Roses, and AC/DC are not metal.

Ramsey
04-08-2004, 07:18 PM
What are they then?

LordDargon
04-08-2004, 07:35 PM
Nile

You idiot. Mortician and SFU suck, Nile owns you.

Tell me one other brutal death metal band with that egyptian sound. ONE other.

Fu.cking idiot. Anus.com lover.

BuddyBigsby
04-08-2004, 09:03 PM
You idiot. Mortician and SFU suck, Nile owns you.

Tell me one other brutal death metal band with that egyptian sound. ONE other.

Fu.cking idiot. Anus.com lover.

Actually, Nile do suck.

LordDargon
04-09-2004, 06:05 AM
^ Well, do you actually like any brutal DM?

Ramsey
04-09-2004, 08:12 AM
All Shall Perish, and Suffocation own Nile IMO.

deftoned
04-09-2004, 08:17 AM
Guns N Roses, and AC/DC are not metal.
Both those bands are hard rock. AC/DC, like Zeppelin, were not hard enough to be metal, but paved the way for many metal bands, who took on their riff-based style. GNR can be arguably cock/hair metal, but they had a better songwriter, through Slash and Izzy, than most hair metal bands, and their earlier material wasn't as glossy, it was more bad arse.

Kaden
04-09-2004, 03:11 PM
industrial?
I defined industrial earlier in the thread.

BuddyBigsby
04-09-2004, 04:04 PM
^ Well, do you actually like any brutal DM?

Yes, but I'm picky.

2cool_4school
04-09-2004, 04:12 PM
So you're saying you need to make genres of bands? Of what is good and bad? Fair enough, but everyone has an opinion, you're not the god of classification. Let people like what they like and think whatever genre it is themselves. That classification of "good" is what someone personally likes, not a style of music. Good is not a genre. Metal, punk, rock, hip hop, pop, indie etc; these are genres. Do you really think in record stores that they would have a section called 'Good, 'Shît' and 'Average'? Didn't think so.

By the way, not every band out there is original, no matter how original you think it is, odds are its done before. There are always loads of bands that sound similar, and thats fine, as long as they make music that I like to listen to.

you make one remotely intelligent statement "Good is not a genre ... Metal, punk, rock, etc ... these are genres". Very good, they are "genres" - you must be a star in community college however you are missing my main argument.... When someone listens to music they place it within a category such as "good, bad, etc" which is an act of classifying something. The fact that one places music within a category leads us to the conclusion that music can be classified (therefor when someone says "d00d you can't classify music, don't be throwin' it in genre's maaaaaaaan" they are oblivious to how foolish this statement is. If anyone has a "favorite band" they have placed one band above others - this is an act of classification.

when you were mashing buttons in an attempt to make an argument you wrote "Do you really think in record stores that they would have a section called 'Good, 'Shît' and 'Average'? Didn't think so."

Its funny you should mention record stores. Who do you think profits off genres of music? I can hear uttering in broken English "d00d those mean men at the big music stores keep us cool people down by selling us pop and stuff".. The real winner in using genre's in music would be the no talent bands (re-hashed trash that goes by many names, Nile and Mortician to name two, but 90% of all musical groups fall under this category) which flood the market with their useless worship of greater bands who have actually contributed to Metal and music as a whole. You even wrote "By the way, not every band out there is original, no matter how original you think it is, odds are its done before" - amazing observation now stop supporting such garbage. Force new bands to push the envelope and actually give us something that does not insult our intelligence.

Yes big labels do get a large profit from idiot consumers such as you who do not have any concept in how they even determine one act from another. With many things in life if you can't think for yourself someone will gladly think for you.

I could go on and on about my views on Metal, but it appears I'm wasting my time conversing with Anthrax icon'ed fools who's limited intelligence is reserved for gay jokes and accusing others that they are "not metal" when they can not form a coherent statement to save their minimum wage earning corpse from extinction.

- In the future, don't waste my time and yours by replying to one of my posts - your limited cognitive abilities suit you (and many of your "friends" here) for 3rd shift at the local Deny's. Good luck with that.

shrubby
04-09-2004, 05:38 PM
Yeah System of a Down is nu metal no matter how hard you try to say otherwise.

Very good list man...verrry good list.


SOAD? NU-Metal? wth?

System of a Down (SOAD) or NOT new-metal. While I have nothing against most "nu-metal" bands, I have to defend system from being placed in this category. SOAD are an alternative-metal if anything, almost an amalgam of punk speed & attitude(political lyrics) with metal's Heavy and Brooding nature.

I don't know where to place them, but they are NOT nu-metal

BuddyBigsby
04-09-2004, 05:49 PM
SOAD? NU-Metal? wth?

System of a Down (SOAD) or NOT new-metal. While I have nothing against most "nu-metal" bands, I have to defend system from being placed in this category. SOAD are an alternative-metal if anything, almost an amalgam of punk speed & attitude(political lyrics) with metal's Heavy and Brooding nature.

I don't know where to place them, but they are NOT nu-metal

Yes, they are. They are very good, I am not dissing them, but they are nu-metal. Just call them hard rock if it gets your panties in a twist so badly.

speedhitler
04-09-2004, 06:01 PM
So you're saying you need to make genres of bands? Of what is good and bad? Fair enough, but everyone has an opinion, you're not the god of classification. Let people like what they like and think whatever genre it is themselves. That classification of "good" is what someone personally likes, not a style of music. Good is not a genre. Metal, punk, rock, hip hop, pop, indie etc; these are genres. Do you really think in record stores that they would have a section called 'Good, 'Shît' and 'Average'? Didn't think so.
Of course, we can't universally label bands as "good" or "bad". That's why we have genres. We must individually decide whether a band is good or band, but genres are there to help us with the decision. For example, I automatically consider "textbook speed metal" to be a very good thing, and I know it's good without even listening to it, if someone I trust call it that. If something is "nu-metal" then I won't even bother, because there is no such thing as "good mallcore" in my personal opinion.

whallz
04-09-2004, 07:33 PM
I defined industrial earlier in the thread.
sorry, i didn't read the whole thread. :thumb:

deftoned
04-09-2004, 08:56 PM
you make one remotely intelligent statement "Good is not a genre ... Metal, punk, rock, etc ... these are genres". Very good, they are "genres" - you must be a star in community college however you are missing my main argument.... When someone listens to music they place it within a category such as "good, bad, etc" which is an act of classifying something. The fact that one places music within a category leads us to the conclusion that music can be classified (therefor when someone says "d00d you can't classify music, don't be throwin' it in genre's maaaaaaaan" they are oblivious to how foolish this statement is. If anyone has a "favorite band" they have placed one band above others - this is an act of classification.

when you were mashing buttons in an attempt to make an argument you wrote "Do you really think in record stores that they would have a section called 'Good, 'Shît' and 'Average'? Didn't think so."

Its funny you should mention record stores. Who do you think profits off genres of music? I can hear uttering in broken English "d00d those mean men at the big music stores keep us cool people down by selling us pop and stuff".. The real winner in using genre's in music would be the no talent bands (re-hashed trash that goes by many names, Nile and Mortician to name two, but 90% of all musical groups fall under this category) which flood the market with their useless worship of greater bands who have actually contributed to Metal and music as a whole. You even wrote "By the way, not every band out there is original, no matter how original you think it is, odds are its done before" - amazing observation now stop supporting such garbage. Force new bands to push the envelope and actually give us something that does not insult our intelligence.

Yes big labels do get a large profit from idiot consumers such as you who do not have any concept in how they even determine one act from another. With many things in life if you can't think for yourself someone will gladly think for you.

I could go on and on about my views on Metal, but it appears I'm wasting my time conversing with Anthrax icon'ed fools who's limited intelligence is reserved for gay jokes and accusing others that they are "not metal" when they can not form a coherent statement to save their minimum wage earning corpse from extinction.

- In the future, don't waste my time and yours by replying to one of my posts - your limited cognitive abilities suit you (and many of your "friends" here) for 3rd shift at the local Deny's. Good luck with that.

Oh almighty Internet god, I bow down, as obviously you are more right than anyone, and your opinion is law, and everyone else who likes different music than you must be a criminal. You may think certain bands are "trash", but that's just your opinion, I don't personally like Nile, but I can see why people do. Stop acting as if you're the law on this forum, people are allowed to have an opinion. Oh yeah, too bad I don't work, because I'm still at school, but I know they imported you for the local Hooters, they even gave you a sports bra, you fat piece of arse..

Yeah, I'm such an idiot consumer, I mean I don't limit myself to three different bands in the world, and worship them. Of course bands get better breaks than those before them or at the time that were doing a similar kind of thing(eg Metallica and Testament, Slayer and Sepultura etc). You can't control this, sorry, but I got onto many older bands through newer bands I bought (I got into Faith No More through RATM, Sonic Youth through Nirvana etc). Just get over yourself, you're not high and mighty and smarter than everyone else. I bet that you're a fat achne faced geek trying to start arguments on forums all over the internet about how UnTrOO NeCrO a certain band is. Get a life.

deftoned
04-09-2004, 08:58 PM
Of course, we can't universally label bands as "good" or "bad". That's why we have genres. We must individually decide whether a band is good or band, but genres are there to help us with the decision. For example, I automatically consider "textbook speed metal" to be a very good thing, and I know it's good without even listening to it, if someone I trust call it that. If something is "nu-metal" then I won't even bother, because there is no such thing as "good mallcore" in my personal opinion.
Yeah obviously, I was stating THE OBVIOUS to the 2cool_4school loser, who thinks people classify music as good or bad, and I said 'good' and 'bad' aren't genres, just what people like.

rexxz
04-09-2004, 10:23 PM
Good and bad are what people like? Since when?

kill-9
04-10-2004, 02:12 AM
I would be really interested in the group's opinion on this band's genre.


http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/package-08.m3u

http://cdbaby.com/cd/package

BuddyBigsby
04-10-2004, 02:43 AM
I would be really interested in the group's opinion on this band's genre.


http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/package-08.m3u

http://cdbaby.com/cd/package

Metal, though it does border on being "nu" at times.

Lateralus23462
04-10-2004, 03:44 PM
I find it funny that when someone (2cool_4school) makes an intelligent post, people whom he has offended (deftoned) try to defend themselves by making an obvious attempt to try to sound intelligent. These posts usually have some of the most indecipherable grammar and sentence structure I have ever read. Don't make idiotic attempts to defend your opinions when you can't match the other person's argument.

LordDargon
04-10-2004, 04:47 PM
^ n00b.

:)

h00t_h00t
04-10-2004, 07:12 PM
Lateralus would be right, IF 2cool_4school's grammer wasn't worse than Deftoned's, AND if he knew the difference between a genre and an opinion.

deftoned
04-11-2004, 02:04 AM
Lateralus would be right, IF 2cool_4school's grammer wasn't worse than Deftoned's, AND if he knew the difference between a genre and an opinion.
My grammar is fine. I know the difference between the genre and an opinion, but 2cool_4school doesn't. He seems to think that putting bands in a genre makes them 'good' or 'bad' (eg 2cool_4school: "thats why I'm against melodic metal, it's all ****, therefore Nile shouldn't be classed as death" etc). Where did all these noobs enter the argument?

deftoned
04-11-2004, 02:07 AM
I find it funny that when someone (2cool_4school) makes an intelligent post, people whom he has offended (deftoned) try to defend themselves by making an obvious attempt to try to sound intelligent. These posts usually have some of the most indecipherable grammar and sentence structure I have ever read. Don't make idiotic attempts to defend your opinions when you can't match the other person's argument.
Wow, way to suck a dîck, noob. The guy doesn't really make an intelligent point, he attacks other's opinions, and acts as though he is law, and thinks he can tell people what they "can't" listen to. You are obviously blind, read the whole thread, buddy. This guy acts as though he knows my whole taste, but he doesn't. He accuses me of being a "dOOd" and the like, and he knows nothing. He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says..

2cool_4school
04-11-2004, 06:42 AM
Wow, way to suck a dîck, noob. The guy doesn't really make an intelligent point, he attacks other's opinions, and acts as though he is law, and thinks he can tell people what they "can't" listen to. You are obviously blind, read the whole thread, buddy. This guy acts as though he knows my whole taste, but he doesn't. He accuses me of being a "dOOd" and the like, and he knows nothing. He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says..

>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).

2cool_4school
04-11-2004, 06:52 AM
Wow, way to suck a dîck, noob. The guy doesn't really make an intelligent point, he attacks other's opinions, and acts as though he is law, and thinks he can tell people what they "can't" listen to. You are obviously blind, read the whole thread, buddy. This guy acts as though he knows my whole taste, but he doesn't. He accuses me of being a "dOOd" and the like, and he knows nothing. He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says..

>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).

speedhitler
04-11-2004, 09:16 AM
Anyone who can hack into what they're talking about, raise a hand.

Kaden
04-11-2004, 12:23 PM
2cool_4school: Click here to find out what you've been missing! (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion)

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.

2cool_4school
04-11-2004, 02:06 PM
2cool_4school: Click here to find out what you've been missing! (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion)

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.

>haha nice link and good luck with that (listening to what you want).

r00ster
04-11-2004, 02:42 PM
The definition to me of alternative metal is obviously that it doesn't fit into any certain metal genre. So firstly I think nu-metal is basicly bands with the heavier drop-tuned sound. Not too much more than maybe it is more commercially acceptable, because it doesn't scare the little kiddies too much. So I would put the old Deftones under alternative metal when they still kept with the normal e tuning. And yes... System of a Down and Mudvayne, nevermind how good they are, still fits the nu-metal genre. Although I also would've liked those two personal favourites to be more accepted, because many people just write them off because they are nu-metal.

Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.

Lastly I think Opeth is more melodic and where would you put bands like Deicide and Dimmu Borgir which I thought was black, but they don't seem to "build any atmosphere".

thx

BuddyBigsby
04-11-2004, 05:38 PM
Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.
thx


Well, that's because a lot of music that gets labeled as metalcore is really just melodic death with breakdowns (a crucial element of modern hardcore). But, the metalheads refuse to acknowledge it as metal, and the hardcore crowd refuses to pack it in with hardcore, so it just kinda gets slapped with the metalcore label, when it in fact has very little hardcore to it. Now, you take a band like Walls of Jericho, who could actually be considered metalcore, and you will see the elements of Black Flag in the music, as well as a Slayer influence.

deftoned
04-11-2004, 09:06 PM
>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).
Nice double post, dumb åss. I understand exactly what you're saying, but I don't think it's true. Many people obviously believe Nile and Mortician are talented enough for them to buy their records, and I'm sure people get onto earlier bands through newer ones. Your principle of your argument is good, but the fact that you're bagging people out for liking bands and almost forcing them on other things is what is pissing me off. This is what I've tried to say the whole time.

deftoned
04-11-2004, 09:16 PM
The definition to me of alternative metal is obviously that it doesn't fit into any certain metal genre. So firstly I think nu-metal is basicly bands with the heavier drop-tuned sound. Not too much more than maybe it is more commercially acceptable, because it doesn't scare the little kiddies too much. So I would put the old Deftones under alternative metal when they still kept with the normal e tuning. And yes... System of a Down and Mudvayne, nevermind how good they are, still fits the nu-metal genre. Although I also would've liked those two personal favourites to be more accepted, because many people just write them off because they are nu-metal.

Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.

Lastly I think Opeth is more melodic and where would you put bands like Deicide and Dimmu Borgir which I thought was black, but they don't seem to "build any atmosphere".

thx
Sorry man, earlier Deftones is more nu-metal than newer Deftones (and this isn't a criticism, I like them alot), although not as polished, the music was more "agressive" and not as artistic as they are now (think White Pony). Deicide are blatantly satanic death, and Dimmu Borgir are 'uNtRoO black', because they have very good production on their album, yet can still make a dreary atmosphere at the same time.

I'd say Alternative Metal bands include: Fantomas, Peach, early Rollins Band (a bit of a funk and blues based - End of Silence; incredible album), Faith No More, Tomahawk, Tool etc..Bands that push the envelope, but aren't really in the vein of prog metal (Symphony X, Dream Theater etc). I would put White Pony forwards era Deftones as Alternative Metal, sorta.

epifreak2002
04-11-2004, 09:58 PM
Anyone who can hack into what they're talking about, raise a hand.

Better yet, anyone who gives a flying fuck, raise your hand.

Anyway, I'm seriously starting to agree with the whole "mod delete these useless posts" thing. Maybe someone should start a cooresponding argument thread to go with this one. That way people would only post genre definitions in this thread. They could do their bickering and whining in the other. Anyone with me?

deftoned
04-12-2004, 06:14 AM
I'm not willing to argue with that guy anymore, does anyone else want any genres to be covered?

deadpuppy
04-12-2004, 08:58 AM
i heard a band described as "proto-metal-funk-core" once...made me laugh

Firecracker
04-12-2004, 11:10 AM
what kind of metal do you think pantera are?

Firecracker
04-12-2004, 11:11 AM
i heard a band described as "proto-metal-funk-core" once...made me laughi heard that "no doubt" are "feminist music to the indie rock persuasion"
i laughed.

br3ad_man
04-12-2004, 06:21 PM
2cool_4school: Click here to find out what you've been missing! (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion)

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.

Kaden has the right idea. 2cool4school should listen to him.

As deftoned said: If you like a band cool...if you don't like them, it doesn't mean they suck, so stop trying to shove your opinions down peoples throats.

ludz
04-13-2004, 01:15 AM
I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Just a suggestion.

PS. I like "Crossover"

BluesClues666
04-13-2004, 03:08 AM
ok i get it there is no difference between music with a guitar in it its all the same thanx for clearing that up.

g_dejesus
04-13-2004, 04:24 AM
Very good list, hmm one thing i've noticed though is that numetal bands are almost always judged by guitarwork alone, some drummers are quite good (while not comparable to prog metal and tool or the such are still quite good) and numetals vocals often seem to be levels above many of the other metal genres. There is no way to get around growling and screaming to be just that. Thing of David Draiman of disturbed, he has an amazing voice that i can't think of anything comprable it pure tonal ability, and if SOAD is to be classified as Nu metal, regardless of whether you like them or not Serj's voice is unique and in my opinion better than most of his metal contemporaries. In death and black and other ultra aggresive variants metal the vocals tend to take a back seat to the technical abilties of the band. Opeth is a great example. while the singer when singing clean doesn't have a bad voice but he is most certainly not up to the standard of the rest of the band.

deftoned
04-13-2004, 04:38 AM
Are you kidding? Serj's voice has range, yeah, but it's hella annoying after a while. With this is mind, I still like SOAD a little bit. In Opeth, Mikael's voice is an incredible technical instrument, and if anything it takes a front seat, with his lead guitar work. Listen to something more. Oh and by the way, Draiman has got nothing on many singers, especially in 'tonal ability' (Mikael, Maynard, Patton, Greg Puciato, Bruce Dickinson, Halford for a few examples).

Jondur
04-13-2004, 05:49 AM
I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Just a suggestion.

PS. I like "Crossover"

I don't. Crossover is the first two Corrosion of Conformity albums, SOD, Carnivore etc. Ie A mix of hardcore (old hardcore not metalcore bollocks) and thrash.

deftoned
04-13-2004, 06:22 AM
I don't. Crossover is the first two Corrosion of Conformity albums, SOD, Carnivore etc. Ie A mix of hardcore (old hardcore not metalcore bollocks) and thrash.
haha nothing like some SOD; racism with class :lol: haha metalcore bollocks; too true.

speedhitler
04-13-2004, 11:13 AM
I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Why? I like the term "mallcore", which we already have. There is NOTHING inherently "crossover" in mallcore.

Very good list, hmm one thing i've noticed though is that numetal bands are almost always judged by guitarwork alone, some drummers are quite good (while not comparable to prog metal and tool or the such are still quite good) and numetals vocals often seem to be levels above many of the other metal genres. There is no way to get around growling and screaming to be just that. Thing of David Draiman of disturbed, he has an amazing voice that i can't think of anything comprable it pure tonal ability, and if SOAD is to be classified as Nu metal, regardless of whether you like them or not Serj's voice is unique and in my opinion better than most of his metal contemporaries. In death and black and other ultra aggresive variants metal the vocals tend to take a back seat to the technical abilties of the band. Opeth is a great example. while the singer when singing clean doesn't have a bad voice but he is most certainly not up to the standard of the rest of the band.
Try Helloween instead of Opeth.

g_dejesus
04-13-2004, 03:01 PM
Are you kidding? Serj's voice has range, yeah, but it's hella annoying after a while. With this is mind, I still like SOAD a little bit. In Opeth, Mikael's voice is an incredible technical instrument, and if anything it takes a front seat, with his lead guitar work. Listen to something more. Oh and by the way, Draiman has got nothing on many singers, especially in 'tonal ability' (Mikael, Maynard, Patton, Greg Puciato, Bruce Dickinson, Halford for a few examples).

I'll give you Maynard for tone and Patton for Range, but Dickinson? His voice is irritating as hell. I like Opeth but the vocals never impressed me. I'm unfamiliar with Puciato and Halford though

br3ad_man
04-13-2004, 09:25 PM
^^^ He can still have a range even if you think he's irriataing. I'm not much of a Maiden fan, although I'll occasionaly be in the mood for them...anyway, Dickinson's voice is really good.

danielle,potion13
04-13-2004, 10:34 PM
Good list! The problem for me with all these metal genre...it takes me half an hour to explain to somebody that does'nt know our band, the style of music we play, so I say metal from the 80's or "maiden kind of" to explain heavy metal.But these days when you say metal a lot of people think about something more agressive than what we do.

deftoned
04-14-2004, 04:17 AM
I'll give you Maynard for tone and Patton for Range, but Dickinson? His voice is irritating as hell. I like Opeth but the vocals never impressed me. I'm unfamiliar with Puciato and Halford though
Listen to Dåmnation by Opeth if you want incredible clean vocals...Puciato is the fücked up Patton-esque voice behind the Dillinger Escape Plan. Rob Halford is the vocalist for Judas Priest.

saturn-ascends
04-14-2004, 08:34 AM
I have always considered Tool to be verging into the progressive scene due to their drawn-out, and complex songs and of course, Carey's fantastic ability on the kit.

tomvs
04-14-2004, 11:05 AM
Great List, But:

I think there should be definitions for the "cores". Hardcore, Metalcore etc.

I think, and many people will agree with me, that Nu-Metal should be called something else. I like Crossover. And System of a Down shouldn't be on that list. Not by a long shot. People only call them Nu-Metal because they came out the same time as all those other bands. Except for the down-tuned guitars they don't fit into that group.


Crossover works for me. I listen to a lot of different genres, and I also like the whole crossover thing. I agree that SOAD is not really at home in nu metal. And SOAD is just one example. But who cares, it's just a name to describe a sound. If you like it, just listen to it.

slayer_66
04-14-2004, 02:50 PM
I dont think id consider SOAD nu-metal but all in all very good

the sock
04-14-2004, 03:09 PM
korn would be in nu metal, right?

Kaden
04-14-2004, 03:20 PM
korn would be in nu metal, right?
yes indeed.

Craka_Plz
04-14-2004, 03:22 PM
At the request of the mods, I'm making this thread to get stickied. Seeing as how there are numerous threads asking "What's the difference between genre X and genre Y?", hopefully this will curb some of those. NOTE: This is a very general guideline and not a definitive carved in stone definition. While I may put a band in with one genre, that doesn't mean that they might not fit into more than one sub-genre. I think most people here know my main area of interest is death and black metal so if you disagree with some of my opinions or band lists...fine.

Traditional heavy Metal
This is kind of a "catch all". There are plenty of sub-genres, but there are lots of bands that don't fit any sub-genre and can't really be called anything except "heavy metal". This can be basically anything from the old school British heavy metal invation to the newer stuff coming out today (not to be confused with nu-metal). This is what most people think of when they hear "Power metal" or such terms. Lots of different styles can be considered traditional heavy metal. Some bands: Iron Maiden, Judas Preist, Iced Earth, Godsmack, Manowar, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall etc etc etc etc.

Thrash metal
Thrash really started to come into play in the early 1980's. It was in one way, an answer to the more popular "hair metal" bands of the time. Thrash grew out of older metal such as Black Sabbath combined with chunkier riffs, speed, agrresive vocals, and even some punk. Thrash metal is concentrated more heavily on speed and aggression than it's predacessors. Key bands: Metallica (old stuff), Slayer, Anthrax, Kreator, Sodom, Megadeth, Exodus, Overkill, Nuclear Assault, Sabbat (UK), Darkane etc etc.

Doom Metal
Where thrash metal concentrates on being fast and aggressive, doom concentrates on being slower, lower and groovier. Many consider Black Sabbath to be the fathers of doom. Typically the music is slow and heavy. Guitars are tuned down and the vocals are usually clean, although growls do slip in on occasion. Also, while death and black metal are generally more aggressive lyrically, doom metal is very meloncholic, depressive and gives an extremly dark vibe. The music can range quite a bit from the extremely slloooooow all clean vocals, to the faster (but still relatively slow) doom/death bands. Check out http://www.doom-metal.com for some good information and a pretty large list of bands. Key bands: Candlemass, St. Vitus, Unsilence, My Dying Bride, Katatonia, Paradise Lost etc etc.

Death Metal
Death metal is the opposite end of the spectrum from doom metal. There are a few different schools of death metal. Generally speaking though, the music is fast, aggressive, low. The bass line is usually more pronounced than in other metal sub-genres. The vocal style is trademark to death metal. Usually vocals are growled or grunted. Blast beat drums are very prevalent. The most common misconception is that death metal is all about death and gore and killing and the likes. This is most certainly not the case. While many bands do sing about this type of thing, there are tons of great bands that do not limit themselves to lyrics like that. Lyrics can range to include religion, spirituality, fantasy and beyond. The music can range from the very aggressive and brutal (Aborted, Iniquity, Suffocation) to the more melodic (Ebony Tears, At The Gates) to the very technical (Atheist, Cynic). Key bands: Lykathea Aflame, Mithras, Morbid Angel, Behemoth (older stuff was black metal), Opeth, Immolation, Blood Red Throne, Entombed, Unleashed, Sinners Bleed.

Melodic death metal
An obvious sub-genre to death metal, it's becoming popular enough that I think it deserves it's own little section. Basically, it incorporates more melody. What it lacks in brutallity, it more than makes up for in melodic grooves. The vocals are typically not as harsh, there may or may not be as many blast beats. Key Bands: At The Gates, In Flames, Ebony Tears, Carcass (Heartwork mainly), Aeternus, Amon Amarth, Kalmah, Norther.

Black Metal
My own personaly favorite and particular area of expertise. Black metal and death metal are quite closely related. While death is focused on the shear brutallity, black metal is focused more on creating atmosphere. The music is typically higher pitched with less of a bass line. Some bands incorporate the use of keyboards or synthesizers. The production is quite often pretty bad giving it a raw or "trOO necro" quality. Tremelo picking abounds, blast beats are not as prevalent as in death metal but are still there quite often. The vocals are generally high pitched shreiked or screamed. The music can range from the "trOO necro" bands (Darkthrone) to the more melodic (Naglfar) to the very sophisticated orchestral atmospheric (Arcturus). A common misconception about black metal is that all the bands are Satanist and sing about Satan. While many bands are Satanic or anti-christian (note the distinct difference), that is not the case with all black metal bands. Lyrics can range from Satanic to fantasy to witchcraft to just about anything. Many black metal bands are very paganistic in ideology and see the christian church as an intruder in their native lands, leading to the very deep seeded hatred for christianity. Unfortunately, black metal also has a sub-genre known as NSBM. National Socialist Black Metal. While I do listen to quite a few of those bands because I like the music, lyrically many black metal bands are very racist against not only Blacks or Jews, but anyone of non-aryan decent. Key bands: Burzum, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Nargaroth, Emperor, Bathory, Immortal, Beherit, Graveland, Gorgoroth, Moonblood, Samael.

Progressive metal
A newer genre (relatively speaking), prog metal incorporates the general aggression of heavy metal with the progressive rock sound of the late 70's. Generally speaking, the music has lots of different aspects including key and time changes, unique riffing and such. The level of musicianship is typically extremly high. Dream Theater is by far the most popular band in this genre. The music is generally quite technical. Key Bands: Dream Theater, Queensryche, Spiral Architect, Spastic Ink, Aghora, Gordian Knot, Racer X.

Nu-metal
Nu-metal is the newest craze to hit mainstream rock radio. Without trying to bash it too much, generally speaking the music structure is very simplistic. Lyrics cover subjects that are close to todays teens (depression, abuse, drugs etc). There are very few guitar solos and the one's that are there are typically very simple and short. Vocals can range from the more metal influenced to a fusion of metal and rap. Guitars are often downtuned or drop tuned. This genre is generally not very popular among listeners of other metal music, but it is the newest craze and therefore very promoted and heavily played on the radio. Bands: Slipknot, Mudvayne, System Of A Down, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.


Again...this is NOT a definitive list. It not by any stretch of the imagination complete. I'm sure if we really wanted to we could come up with a good 20 or so more sub-genres. It is meant as a general guideline for the noob who's just getting into metal that otherwise would have posted a "What's the difference" thread. Feel free to agree or disagree. With any genre, there are bands that cross over and blur the lines. Your best bet if you're new to any genre of metal is to go out find a list of bands in the genre you're interested in. Download a couple songs from a bunch of different bands and then make your own distinctions.
I HAVE TO AGRZEE TOTALL
Y

br3ad_man
04-14-2004, 06:47 PM
^^^ Cool, but did you have to quote the entire post?

matthallo
04-14-2004, 08:58 PM
Haha thats awesome man, good work. Thats actually very helpfull, as it can get confusing. Thanks for clearin that up! :thumb:

vamp|rka
04-15-2004, 04:41 AM
well done, I must say :)

deftoned
04-15-2004, 04:55 AM
I have always considered Tool to be verging into the progressive scene due to their drawn-out, and complex songs and of course, Carey's fantastic ability on the kit.
Yeah, Tool definitely push the boundaries, but I wouldn't really call them similar to Dream Theater or Symphony X, as they basically wank alot. Tool has more of an impact on the listener. I like Dream Theater alot, but its just musical wankery. With Tool you get alot of the music; it can inspire you artistically, spiritually, and just improve you look on life. :thumb:

asubtledagger
04-15-2004, 04:40 PM
Why are people so obsessed with labeling genres and sub-genres of music? why does a band have to fit into such a neat little package? This is one thing that has always bothered me about the music world.

dude22
04-15-2004, 06:26 PM
Cool List But What about Power Groove How different is that to other metal?

CheeseMonkey2.0
04-15-2004, 09:54 PM
nice list! great job there man. i was just wondering - where does black sabbath fit in on that list? i no u have them on there for something, but i'm not sure if that's were they fit in or what. thanks for the great list

Jondur
04-16-2004, 06:12 AM
Black Sabbath are heavy metal plain and simple. They are impossible to categorise as they were the first real heavy metal band. The closest musical style nowadays is doom.

MAGGOT_951753
04-16-2004, 07:37 AM
pretty good list but i disagree with bands such as slipknot and mudvayne bein grouped with linkin park, p.o.d etc... theyre almost completly different

deftoned
04-16-2004, 08:35 AM
They're not almost completely different. I warrant Mudvayne are a little different, but they still tour with bands like Linkin Park, and their fanbases are very similar. Slipknot fans are almost always into Mudvayne. Slipknot aren't 'that' heavy, but they're the heaviest of nu-metal bands.

MAGGOT_951753
04-16-2004, 09:19 AM
i primarily listen to **** like cradle of filth, opeth, cannibal corpse etc but i still really like mudvayne and slipknot. you cant say people who listen to slipknot and mudvayne and other nu-metal like korn etc also listen to crap like papa roach and linkin park, or even those christians from p.o.d. and since when did mudvayne tour with linkin park??

Thrice Owns
04-16-2004, 10:36 AM
Nu-metal and Old Metal are the two main ones.
Nu-Metal is based entirely around rythem with no riffs e.g. Slipknot.
Old metal is guitar based Metal e.g. Ozzy.

Kaden
04-16-2004, 06:28 PM
i primarily listen to **** like cradle of filth, opeth, cannibal corpse etc but i still really like mudvayne and slipknot. you cant say people who listen to slipknot and mudvayne and other nu-metal like korn etc also listen to crap like papa roach and linkin park, or even those christians from p.o.d. and since when did mudvayne tour with linkin park??
No, if you listen to some nu-metal bands that doesn't automatically mean you listen to all of them. This is what I mean when I say people take genres too seriously.

Thrice Owns
04-16-2004, 08:36 PM
I try to avoid generes.
It's pointless, because people get bent out of shape if they change a bit.
And people judge everyone on what they call their music.
It's retarded.

deftoned
04-16-2004, 11:21 PM
since when did mudvayne tour with linkin park??
Summer Sanitarium.

IcemanicIC200
04-17-2004, 09:22 AM
i have to agree with thrice owns,
what ever happend to just enjoyin the music. Now its like as soon as a band gets more popular/famous their new metal or some other type of genre no one likes. System of a down my be new metal but they have a plethora of different genres put into there music. But when toxicity came out and chop suey! got into heavy rotation everyone was like **ck SoaD, when two years ago u were pumpin sweet pea.the **ck, just let the music flow, and stop labeling it. if your gonna label it, label it crap and good mother**ckin s**t.

Black metal 1st krieg
04-17-2004, 10:57 AM
gd list man, i think that u cudda given melodic black metal its own section and sum key artists were missing but overall pretty gd man.

jcapGT
04-17-2004, 09:56 PM
i think it wouldnt hurt to include love metal, that is a new classification brought by HIM from germany

ironsteele
04-18-2004, 01:13 AM
wow, bout this thread. a lot of good info, but could someone please edit it a bit. such as the bitchfights and bitchfight commentaries. i mean my god. we dont need several pages of petty insults to look at definitions of metal. also, the examples of bands are just that, examples. not every band in the genre will be listed, get over it. also, many metal genres overlap somewhat, so no, u will not agree with every single band placement on the thread, get over that to

anyways, could someone edit thie eventually

ironsteele
04-18-2004, 01:14 AM
one more thing, ive heard several mentions of power metal, could someone explain it?

br3ad_man
04-18-2004, 05:50 AM
^^ It;s in here, have a look

pearljam_10
04-18-2004, 10:12 AM
Nu-metal
Bands: Slipknot, Mudvayne, System Of A Down, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.

Dude, System of a Down isnt nu-metal. Nothing about them fits the nu-metal criteria. their traditional metal, man.

BuddyBigsby
04-18-2004, 01:34 PM
Nu-metal
Bands: Slipknot, Mudvayne, System Of A Down, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.

Dude, System of a Down isnt nu-metal. Nothing about them fits the nu-metal criteria. their traditional metal, man.

SYSTEM OF A DOWN ARE FUCKING NU-METAL

Jesus people, just because you like them doesn't mean they're not. SOAD are a good band, I am not dissing them, but they ARE nu-metal, whether you like it or not. Yes, they are way more experimental than other nu-metal acts and have a middle-eastern cultural influence to their music, which differentiates them from their peers, but at the heart and core of it, they are still nu-metal.

IcemanicIC200
04-18-2004, 05:14 PM
according to most of these people anything that sucks is new metal.

IcemanicIC200
04-18-2004, 05:14 PM
im sorry nu-metal

hafez
04-18-2004, 08:50 PM
that was marvelous. i always knew you were knowledgeable about metal, but that was beyond my expectations

hafez
04-18-2004, 08:53 PM
no goth/industrial metal? industrial metal is a pretty well known genre now

Kingof4string
04-19-2004, 12:33 AM
Where's Megadeth? Good job with or without them

Jondur
04-19-2004, 04:48 AM
Dude, System of a Down isnt nu-metal. Nothing about them fits the nu-metal criteria. their traditional metal, man.

Yeah! Cos they sound so much like Priest, Maiden, Manilla Road, Twisted Tower Dire etc.

slicktrip
04-19-2004, 05:47 AM
This is actually interesting now that you've explained the difference of black and death metal. I must say thanks. Keep it up! God's Planet owes you one ^_^.

the pariah
04-19-2004, 06:38 AM
They're not almost completely different. I warrant Mudvayne are a little different, but they still tour with bands like Linkin Park, and their fanbases are very similar. Slipknot fans are almost always into Mudvayne. Slipknot aren't 'that' heavy, but they're the heaviest of nu-metal bands.

yeh, but Metallica were also on the summer sanitarium tour...who a band tours with doesn't really prove anything..

mudvayne own. 'nuf said.

sp1n3shankk
04-19-2004, 12:04 PM
the problem with kids of today is they like a band and they want to call it something its not. a kid will say "i like slipknot. they're speed metal!" or whatever they say and then think theyre cool cuz they like speed metal.

ps godsmack should be in nu-metal category. no doubt

Kaden
04-19-2004, 03:34 PM
no goth/industrial metal? industrial metal is a pretty well known genre now
Industrial Metal:
I've often heard industrial metal compared to techno, mainly because it has prevalent use of synthesizers as a major instrument. It takes cues from 80's industrial dance music that was popular in the club scene, and adds metal guitars to create an aggresive effect. Industrial metal is meant to create a very bleak atmoshpere. The lyrics are aggresive and very, very angst-ridden, and the angry atmoshpere is used to further the theme of social alienation. The genre was mainly underground until Nine Inch Nails broke through into the mainstream with the album Pretty Hate Machine.

Key bands: Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppy, Fear Factory, Orgy, Godflesh, etc. etc.

:thumb: Enjoy

epifreak2002
04-19-2004, 07:03 PM
the problem with kids of today is they like a band and they want to call it something its not. a kid will say "i like slipknot. they're speed metal!" or whatever they say and then think theyre cool cuz they like speed metal.

ps godsmack should be in nu-metal category. no doubt

Therein lies the problem with the nu-metal monkier. It's so all encompassing and vague that nobody really knows what it is. Okay, nobody's going to deny that Linkin Park or Limp Bizkit are nu-metal, but you could actually make a case for, say Slipknot being non-nu-metal. They're definitely not speed metal, but you could almost make a case for them being death metal. I'm inclined to include Godsmack with nu-metal as well. 12 Stones solo as well, and they're much better at it than Godsmack, but they're still considered nu-metal. (somebody had said that because Godsmack attempts solos they're not nu-metal.)

deftoned
04-19-2004, 11:57 PM
Therein lies the problem with the nu-metal monkier. It's so all encompassing and vague that nobody really knows what it is. Okay, nobody's going to deny that Linkin Park or Limp Bizkit are nu-metal, but you could actually make a case for, say Slipknot being non-nu-metal. They're definitely not speed metal, but you could almost make a case for them being death metal. I'm inclined to include Godsmack with nu-metal as well. 12 Stones solo as well, and they're much better at it than Godsmack, but they're still considered nu-metal. (somebody had said that because Godsmack attempts solos they're not nu-metal.)
There is NO WAY that Slipknot are death metal. They want to seem to get that image across, whilst still being commercially viable. If they are so "death metal", they have been watered down SO MUCH, to the point of being nu-metal.

deftoned
04-20-2004, 12:04 AM
yeh, but Metallica were also on the summer sanitarium tour...who a band tours with doesn't really prove anything..

mudvayne own. 'nuf said.
Dude that wasn't an insult, just because Mudvayne toured with Linkin Park. Have a teary. Metallica's most prospective fan base now is those with Linkin Park/Limp Bizkit fans. We all know St. Anger went nu-metal, and Lars has even said that the peers of the band are now Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit, it's "what keeps us going". Whilst this sucks, it's the truth. To remain "fresh", Metallica made a package tour with a lot of kiddie bands. This is why the Deftones left the tour, as they said they wanted to get away from that fanbase and "kiddie band" label that had been on them for years. I don't agree with them dissing Metallica, but I agree with them, because they don't like being labelled with Limp Bizkit, LP etc.

It does prove something, as bands try and tour with other bands whose fans are similar. You won't see a tour of Cannibal Corpse and Radiohead, will you? This is why bands try and get a suitable support act, whose fanbase is generally similar/could crossover. I doubt a Snoop Dogg and Slayer gig would ever happen, this is why it's important for bands to choose their supports wisely.

epifreak2002
04-20-2004, 08:05 AM
There is NO WAY that Slipknot are death metal. They want to seem to get that image across, whilst still being commercially viable. If they are so "death metal", they have been watered down SO MUCH, to the point of being nu-metal.

I didn't say they were. I said a case could be made for it. I personally like Slipknot, but I'll be the first to acknowledge that they're nu-metal.

BELS39
04-20-2004, 12:39 PM
Why is 'nu-metal' a dirty word? I like some artists that are considered nu-metal. Their classification doesn't bother me. Just because I like some of it doesn't mean I'm any less worthy than someone who likes death/black/thrash metal, does it? Why the stigma? Somebody please tell me why so many people are getting riled up over a group of bands. If they don't like them - leave their music be!

sacrifice93.2
04-20-2004, 02:20 PM
Wise Words deftoned. People don't really realize that Metallica isn't the Fan-Loving band of the Eighties and Early 90's. If any bands are severly dedicated to their fans, it's Slayer and Anthrax. Those bands know that without their dedicated fans from the times of Reign and South of Heaven, then they're nothing. The same goes for Anthrax. It's a shame Metallica compromised their sound to appeal to this pansy kids who think Linkin Park is a metal band. Epifreak also made a good point that the term Nu-Metal is far too vague to describe a band. Soulfly, Static X, Godsmack, and Spineshank were branded that way since they came out in the late 90's, early new millenium, when they follow traditional Metal guidlines, such as brutal lyrics, heavy guitar, and great music. I don't really know if Slipknot fits in Nu-Metal, especially with their upcoming album, which is probobly going to sound like Slayer's God Hates Us All musically. If Slipknot is anything, they're a mixture of the Rap rythyms of Mallcore with a little, but not much, thrash thrown into the mix. Any way you put it, Nu-Metal is way too broad, and way too easy to stamp on a band that doesn't deserve that title.

illicit citizen
04-21-2004, 01:42 PM
SOAD is not nu-metal. Serj does not rap at all.

What about alternative metal and math metal?

Kaden
04-21-2004, 02:05 PM
SOAD is not nu-metal. Serj does not rap at all.

What about alternative metal and math metal?
These morons are getting out of hand....

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST.

metallicafan501
04-21-2004, 06:52 PM
what would korn be classified as

deftoned
04-21-2004, 08:24 PM
Nu-metal

hafez
04-21-2004, 08:52 PM
:thumb: Enjoy

thanks kaden but i wanted legions to do it so that people wouldn't always ask "what exactly is industrial". also, nice job, but you didn't mention the use of actual tools, etc.

Twisted Angel Corpse
04-22-2004, 12:26 AM
great list but there's also grindcore with gorerotted,napalm death, mortician who sucks, but is grindcore,early carcass,and you can mention grave,but that's a little more death.

BuddyBigsby
04-22-2004, 01:12 AM
great list but there's also grindcore with gorerotted,napalm death, mortician who sucks, but is grindcore,early carcass,and you can mention grave,but that's a little more death.

Read through the thread, and you will find a grind definition.

SelfKsEreveloution
04-22-2004, 03:19 AM
At the request of the mods, I'm making this thread to get stickied. Seeing as how there are numerous threads asking "What's the difference between genre X and genre Y?", hopefully this will curb some of those. NOTE: This is a very general guideline and not a definitive carved in stone definition. While I may put a band in with one genre, that doesn't mean that they might not fit into more than one sub-genre. I think most people here know my main area of interest is death and black metal so if you disagree with some of my opinions or band lists...fine.

Traditional heavy Metal
This is kind of a "catch all". There are plenty of sub-genres, but there are lots of bands that don't fit any sub-genre and can't really be called anything except "heavy metal". This can be basically anything from the old school British heavy metal invation to the newer stuff coming out today (not to be confused with nu-metal). This is what most people think of when they hear "Power metal" or such terms. Lots of different styles can be considered traditional heavy metal. Some bands: Iron Maiden, Judas Preist, Iced Earth, Godsmack, Manowar, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall etc etc etc etc.

Thrash metal
Thrash really started to come into play in the early 1980's. It was in one way, an answer to the more popular "hair metal" bands of the time. Thrash grew out of older metal such as Black Sabbath combined with chunkier riffs, speed, agrresive vocals, and even some punk. Thrash metal is concentrated more heavily on speed and aggression than it's predacessors. Key bands: Metallica (old stuff), Slayer, Anthrax, Kreator, Sodom, Megadeth, Exodus, Overkill, Nuclear Assault, Sabbat (UK), Darkane etc etc.

Doom Metal
Where thrash metal concentrates on being fast and aggressive, doom concentrates on being slower, lower and groovier. Many consider Black Sabbath to be the fathers of doom. Typically the music is slow and heavy. Guitars are tuned down and the vocals are usually clean, although growls do slip in on occasion. Also, while death and black metal are generally more aggressive lyrically, doom metal is very meloncholic, depressive and gives an extremly dark vibe. The music can range quite a bit from the extremely slloooooow all clean vocals, to the faster (but still relatively slow) doom/death bands. Check out http://www.doom-metal.com for some good information and a pretty large list of bands. Key bands: Candlemass, St. Vitus, Unsilence, My Dying Bride, Katatonia, Paradise Lost etc etc.

Death Metal
Death metal is the opposite end of the spectrum from doom metal. There are a few different schools of death metal. Generally speaking though, the music is fast, aggressive, low. The bass line is usually more pronounced than in other metal sub-genres. The vocal style is trademark to death metal. Usually vocals are growled or grunted. Blast beat drums are very prevalent. The most common misconception is that death metal is all about death and gore and killing and the likes. This is most certainly not the case. While many bands do sing about this type of thing, there are tons of great bands that do not limit themselves to lyrics like that. Lyrics can range to include religion, spirituality, fantasy and beyond. The music can range from the very aggressive and brutal (Aborted, Iniquity, Suffocation) to the more melodic (Ebony Tears, At The Gates) to the very technical (Atheist, Cynic). Key bands: Lykathea Aflame, Mithras, Morbid Angel, Behemoth (older stuff was black metal), Opeth, Immolation, Blood Red Throne, Entombed, Unleashed, Sinners Bleed.

Melodic death metal
An obvious sub-genre to death metal, it's becoming popular enough that I think it deserves it's own little section. Basically, it incorporates more melody. What it lacks in brutallity, it more than makes up for in melodic grooves. The vocals are typically not as harsh, there may or may not be as many blast beats. Key Bands: At The Gates, In Flames, Ebony Tears, Carcass (Heartwork mainly), Aeternus, Amon Amarth, Kalmah, Norther.

Black Metal
My own personaly favorite and particular area of expertise. Black metal and death metal are quite closely related. While death is focused on the shear brutallity, black metal is focused more on creating atmosphere. The music is typically higher pitched with less of a bass line. Some bands incorporate the use of keyboards or synthesizers. The production is quite often pretty bad giving it a raw or "trOO necro" quality. Tremelo picking abounds, blast beats are not as prevalent as in death metal but are still there quite often. The vocals are generally high pitched shreiked or screamed. The music can range from the "trOO necro" bands (Darkthrone) to the more melodic (Naglfar) to the very sophisticated orchestral atmospheric (Arcturus). A common misconception about black metal is that all the bands are Satanist and sing about Satan. While many bands are Satanic or anti-christian (note the distinct difference), that is not the case with all black metal bands. Lyrics can range from Satanic to fantasy to witchcraft to just about anything. Many black metal bands are very paganistic in ideology and see the christian church as an intruder in their native lands, leading to the very deep seeded hatred for christianity. Unfortunately, black metal also has a sub-genre known as NSBM. National Socialist Black Metal. While I do listen to quite a few of those bands because I like the music, lyrically many black metal bands are very racist against not only Blacks or Jews, but anyone of non-aryan decent. Key bands: Burzum, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Nargaroth, Emperor, Bathory, Immortal, Beherit, Graveland, Gorgoroth, Moonblood, Samael.

Progressive metal
A newer genre (relatively speaking), prog metal incorporates the general aggression of heavy metal with the progressive rock sound of the late 70's. Generally speaking, the music has lots of different aspects including key and time changes, unique riffing and such. The level of musicianship is typically extremly high. Dream Theater is by far the most popular band in this genre. The music is generally quite technical. Key Bands: Dream Theater, Queensryche, Spiral Architect, Spastic Ink, Aghora, Gordian Knot, Racer X.

Nu-metal
Nu-metal is the newest craze to hit mainstream rock radio. Without trying to bash it too much, generally speaking the music structure is very simplistic. Lyrics cover subjects that are close to todays teens (depression, abuse, drugs etc). There are very few guitar solos and the one's that are there are typically very simple and short. Vocals can range from the more metal influenced to a fusion of metal and rap. Guitars are often downtuned or drop tuned. This genre is generally not very popular among listeners of other metal music, but it is the newest craze and therefore very promoted and heavily played on the radio. Bands: Slipknot, Mudvayne, System Of A Down, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.


Again...this is NOT a definitive list. It not by any stretch of the imagination complete. I'm sure if we really wanted to we could come up with a good 20 or so more sub-genres. It is meant as a general guideline for the noob who's just getting into metal that otherwise would have posted a "What's the difference" thread. Feel free to agree or disagree. With any genre, there are bands that cross over and blur the lines. Your best bet if you're new to any genre of metal is to go out find a list of bands in the genre you're interested in. Download a couple songs from a bunch of different bands and then make your own distinctions. in black metal u forgot to name cradle of filth

Jondur
04-22-2004, 09:17 AM
great list but there's also grindcore with gorerotted,napalm death, mortician who sucks, but is grindcore,early carcass,and you can mention grave,but that's a little more death.

I wouldn't call Gorerotted, Mortician or Grave grindcore.

Grindcore has roots in the 80's hardcore punk scene while those bands are just plain death metal.

Grindcore is:

old Extreme Noise Terror
Sore Throat
Nausea
Terrorizer
Nausea

epifreak2002
04-23-2004, 09:08 AM
in black metal u forgot to name cradle of filth

Applicable comment, but did you really need to quote the whole original post to say it?

Anyway, given the definition for industrial given here, might Static X fit better with industrial than nu-metal?

KillStacey
04-23-2004, 09:51 AM
i remembered reading about Math-Metal, they labelled MuDvAyNe that...
laterz... :upset:

the pariah
04-23-2004, 11:27 AM
Dude that wasn't an insult, just because Mudvayne toured with Linkin Park. Have a teary. Metallica's most prospective fan base now is those with Linkin Park/Limp Bizkit fans. We all know St. Anger went nu-metal, and Lars has even said that the peers of the band are now Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit, it's "what keeps us going". Whilst this sucks, it's the truth. To remain "fresh", Metallica made a package tour with a lot of kiddie bands. This is why the Deftones left the tour, as they said they wanted to get away from that fanbase and "kiddie band" label that had been on them for years. I don't agree with them dissing Metallica, but I agree with them, because they don't like being labelled with Limp Bizkit, LP etc.

It does prove something, as bands try and tour with other bands whose fans are similar. You won't see a tour of Cannibal Corpse and Radiohead, will you? This is why bands try and get a suitable support act, whose fanbase is generally similar/could crossover. I doubt a Snoop Dogg and Slayer gig would ever happen, this is why it's important for bands to choose their supports wisely.

...fair enough. well said.

EbayRules
04-23-2004, 07:10 PM
very very good. but i thought led zeppelin should have been on traditional heavy metal because they were the last true heavy metal band.

i_rock
04-23-2004, 10:13 PM
Yes they do.

EDIT: to the guy talking about System of a Down.

Bull crap system of a down is the abnout as far from nu-metal as u can get :evil:
Korn is nu-metal :thumb:

Kaden
04-24-2004, 09:15 AM
very very good. but i thought led zeppelin should have been on traditional heavy metal because they were the last true heavy metal band.
:confused: What about Iron Maiden? I've never even considered Led Zeppelin a metal band...
Come to think of it, I've never heard anyone call Zeppelin a metal band. And didn't the majority of metal start after Zeppelin? The more I think about it, the more retarded that statement seems.

Bull crap system of a down is the abnout as far from nu-metal as u can get:evil:
What about Barry Manilow?

deftoned
04-24-2004, 09:56 PM
Bull crap system of a down is the abnout as far from nu-metal as u can get :evil: :
Yeah man, and Radiohead must be death metal... :rolleyes: SOAD are nu-metal, that's not an insult, it's just the truth.

Demon Cleaner
04-25-2004, 03:00 PM
The two bands that I hear the most agonising about then not being Nu-Metal are Deftones and System of a Down. Personally, I'd would classify Deftones as Nu-Metal due to the structure of their songs, and the nature of thier lyrics. System of a Down, on the other hand, are far more arguable. They possess some characteristics of Nu-Metal, but some others that distance them from the genre, such as the evident Eastern elements in their material, and even some reference can be drawn to folk. Even so, you get the odd numpty saying that "SOAD r nwhere neer Nu-Meatl!!1 olololol!!1"

Prattinator999
04-25-2004, 04:40 PM
Metal's awesome, but too many people take it too seriously. It really makes no sense to get that hyped about a genre. It really makes you look stupid sometimes and most of its just attention grabbing.

deftoned
04-25-2004, 08:15 PM
The two bands that I hear the most agonising about then not being Nu-Metal are Deftones and System of a Down. Personally, I'd would classify Deftones as Nu-Metal due to the structure of their songs, and the nature of thier lyrics. System of a Down, on the other hand, are far more arguable. They possess some characteristics of Nu-Metal, but some others that distance them from the genre, such as the evident Eastern elements in their material, and even some reference can be drawn to folk. Even so, you get the odd numpty saying that "SOAD r nwhere neer Nu-Meatl!!1 olololol!!1"
System of a Down are nu-metal, like it or not. Deftones are also nu-metal, but not because of their lyrics. Have you even read any of the post-White Pony lyrics? They are the genre-expanding nu-metal band. SOAD are like this as well, BUT BOTH BANDS ARE NU-METAL.

Random_Hero_Guy_
04-26-2004, 05:17 PM
Metal's awesome, but too many people take it too seriously. It really makes no sense to get that hyped about a genre. It really makes you look stupid sometimes and most of its just attention grabbing.
Ha...You're one to talk about looking stupid and trying to get attention. I read the eggs thread you spammed in, asshole.(link below)

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175352&page=4&pp=20

What does it matter if SOAD is nu-metal or not? Classifying isn't important, as long as its good music :thumb: .

Prattinator999
04-26-2004, 08:44 PM
Ha...You're one to talk about looking stupid and trying to get attention. I read the eggs thread you spammed in, asshole.(link below)

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175352&page=4&pp=20

What does it matter if SOAD is nu-metal or not? Classifying isn't important, as long as its good music :thumb: .

Hey screw you I apologized. look again. Faggot.
"u r aeee spmur lolololol hahgahajha aeeeaaassshhwwol u nieewwwbyyiiieee!!!1!!1!
meatal rox hrdcre outlod mthr fck rs peeese ot."

And yes you have majorly pissed me off you f***** :evil:
plus any one with any brains can tell I was being sarcastic and making fun of queers like you.

Silent_Assassin
04-26-2004, 08:45 PM
Good thread. I always wondered what the difference is between them. IMO i don't like seperating them into genres. To me metal is metal. It just gets people into arguments on which band belongs to which and which one is the best. I could care less what type of genre it is. If i like band i listen to them.

Elz`Guitar`
04-26-2004, 09:56 PM
Really good thread here.

epifreak2002
04-27-2004, 08:10 AM
System of a Down are nu-metal, like it or not. Deftones are also nu-metal, but not because of their lyrics. Have you even read any of the post-White Pony lyrics? They are the genre-expanding nu-metal band. SOAD are like this as well, BUT BOTH BANDS ARE NU-METAL.

Hmm.....despite the fact that I posted more-or-less the exact same thing about 6 pages ago, people have continued to argue over that. Why can't people recognize my inherent superiority of the mind?

sacrifice93.2
04-27-2004, 02:21 PM
Black Sabbath was the first true metal band.

Jack Sabbath_44
04-27-2004, 04:00 PM
That was generally a good explanation