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I don’t really know what I’m doing at the moment. This is a spur of the moment idea stemming from a conversation that is currently ongoing, which I’ve decided that I’m going to be an ass and go and take it off into this tangent instead of actually finishing the conversation like a normal person. So hey! What the hell, right? Fuck it, here it goes:

Because I’m an over opinionated, egotistical jackass on the internet with a music library full of shit that I never listen to but have just because other over opinionated, egotistical jackasses have told me that they are, in some way or another, worth my time, I’ve found an outlet in writing about the thing that I love the most (a good IPA is second) on this here website. I enjoy it, but at the same time I think that this very site and those like it, pick your poison — CMG, Pitchfork, Metal Reviews, Punknews etc etc — are inherently fucked because it all stems from taking the individual experience that is listening to a record and pulling it out of context; warping it into a collection of phrases and similes meant on describing something that is, at its core, indescribable. To me the power of music lies completely within the moment. Sure it can be dissected and studied, and there is a time and a place for such scholarly exercises, but that kind of approach completely misses the psychological effect that music has on us. The moment when people start to look at music, be it a song, an album, or a performance, outside of its immediacy is when I jump ship. Sure, you can try to claim it as a cultural identifier, but lets be honest here, music is now nondescript in the lexicon of what culture is, and the only music that has the kind of reach to rekindle that flame is more of a reflection of board rooms and focus groups rather than some sort of cultural zeitgeist. None of the music I listen to has any cultural weight. Its impact lies in how it makes you feel and what it makes you think while you are experiencing it. It’s more than words and noises. It’s an experience. That’s the only way I look at music anymore. So every time you read a review on this site, or on any other, the only words that should be there are, “Listen to it and experience it for yourself. It’s all subjective to your experiences anyways”.





Hyperion1001
03.04.12
alrighty then

Apollo
03.04.12
clicked bcuz P.O.S.

Lucid
03.04.12
meh

Scoot
03.04.12
someguest stop posting stupid things

Omaha
03.04.12
I don't know who this was by, but I like the way you think

It's hard to think this way, but it's important to at least try your hardest.

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
DEEADDDDD BY DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Athom
03.04.12
@OmahaStylee94: that would be me.

Omaha
03.04.12
Ah ok, props to you then :]

It's always hard to tell with the blog posts, seeing as there's the ominous "By ..." at the top...

ConsiderPhlebas
03.04.12
No one does anything exactly.



Music punctuates the cultural sphere less cleanly than it did before, but it's still got some weight behind it.

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
As I read this I feel the OP is yelling at me.

wabbit
03.04.12
Well Radiohead...


but ya I agree with this to the point where I have nothing constructive to say...

AsoTamaki
03.04.12
"Ugh" was my first reaction after (and while) reading this, but for some reason I hate when people on this site type that word so I will instead say that this is horrible.

I am glad that you guys have been posting more unique content to the blog lately though. Keep it up.

Athom
03.04.12
also just so you know i'm not saying that studying music or looking at it in technical terms is a wash for all you theory dudes. if you're gonna play something you should at least have some idea of the technical aspects behind it.

Maniac!
03.04.12
DAMNIT



wanted to be the first post about the P.O.S. reference.


I'm too bored tonight.

Apollo
03.04.12
Brandon is always 2nd place

except judo...judo he is 3rd

I am also too fucking bored

Maniac!
03.04.12
"except judo...judo he is 3rd"



that hurt me deep, bro

Omaha
03.04.12
You guys that think this is awful should explain why you feel this way, so that this can turn into an interesting discussion

Irving
03.04.12
So passes yet another reviewer into an existential crisis.

One thing that this post completely neglects to mention though, is the fact that there are albums which have a higher aggregate score than other albums; thus, clearly, there is a purpose to reviewing. Bad music does definitely exist.

Or maybe I just misunderstood this post completely.

Athom
03.04.12
I don't read any reviews anymore, on this site or any other. When something comes out that piques my interest I listen to it and then make my judgements. I can understand the use of reviews and such when people use them to find new music and such, but being involved in some way or another with the music scene which I'm interest in and being around musically inclined people has made it so I don't have to do that anymore and thusly have changed the way I think about things on a personal level.

Omaha
03.04.12
I really don't think that Adam meant that there isn't a point to having sites like Sputnik. The way that I read it is that it's great for us to be able to discuss music and see the stances of others, but that it's a slippery slope because we don't need to take others' word for it. Even if something has a bad rating, that doesn't mean that we won't like it, you know?

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
I have been on this site for years and read a review maybe once a week at most lol. Listening to one song allows you to form more of an opinion than reading a review.

Omaha
03.04.12
Rather, you can just read what he wrote directly above me

klap
03.04.12
don't understand why people don't like this? pretty reasonable viewpoint to have

Athom
03.04.12
I just think that if there's something that you're not familiar with, then yes, reviews are incredibly helpful to gauge if something is worth your time, but if you're balls deep into your music then the review format becomes inconsequential as you already have an idea what is out there and what you enjoy better than anyone else can espouse in a few paragraphs.

dimsim3478
03.04.12
Opinion pretty much comes down to exposure. If someone were to tell you that Escape the Fate were the best band of all time, they probably haven't heard of/devoted enough time into...say..."OK Computer". Ignorance is bliss.

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
Melvins-Bullhead is bliss m/

dimsim3478
03.04.12
Well yeah, but Austin Carlisle wouldn't tell you that.

Athom
03.04.12
@dimsim: but here's the thing. I don't care what someone else listens to. you kind of missed the whole fucking point. i get enjoyment from what I like and someone else can enjoy completely different things. music is a personal experience and interpreted differently based on just about every factor in someone's life. Don't be concerned about what other people listen to, be concerned about how you can continue to find things that are transcendent to you.

wabbit
03.04.12
you bitch at me for not listening to stuff all the time

Athom
03.04.12
because what else are we gonna talk about? hey, i got drunk last night. yeah i did too. yeah. yeah... yeahhhhhhhhh....

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
We can talk about religion.

Athom
03.04.12
that's how i lose friends.

Crysis
03.04.12
Through the jungle by the river Styx
I've journed long and far this day
Lurking shadows in the parapets
Will never make me turn away
Darkened city veiled in crimson mist
Entombed in time without decay

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
we can talk about electric wizard

Ire
03.04.12
guys that agree with something, cause it makes them sound like a good or real man. when they shouldnt agree cause they have no right to, specially, they say im a real man. but prove it wroong!

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
now I know what its like to be, inside the city of the dead!!!!!

Crysis
03.04.12
We deny thee Belial
The Holy Mother
And the Father of Light
Will never refuse us logic
Crystal Logic

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
The world is full of mysteries
That men have never seen before
Magik lives in all dynasties
The light of love shines ever more
In the crypt of Atlantean Kings!!

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
Metal is flowing is pretty hard in my earphones I don't care bout nothing.

Athom
03.04.12
digging this manilla road shit going on

Ire
03.04.12
im not going to lie, every lil thing that happen last night was epic and aamazing night:D really glad i went. haha meet a pretty amazing chick :D

Crysis
03.04.12
I woke sweatrunning down my face
I never felt so strange
To think that this could be our fate
To freeze in darkened pain

dimsim3478
03.04.12
Music is personal, yeah, but the only ways I really find music are:

1. Hear about it from someone (i.e. Love American)
2. Hear that it is acclaimed or influential (i.e. Refused)
3. Hear that it involves someone known for/involved in something that I enjoy (i.e. side project)
4. Hear it being played and enjoy it

The thing about that list is that number four is rarely ever applied, because I don't go to shows and I pretty much never hear anything good on TV/radio. So it pretty much comes down to exposure in terms of what I listen to, but opinion is opinion.

Ire
03.04.12
Eternal Turn of the Wheel...

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
I got a feel for Magik
I got a feel for games
I got a love for life girl
Hey baby I'm feeling free again

Crysis
03.04.12
life goes on

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
I will never put my sword down
I will never run away
In The Veils of Negative Existence
I am the master here to stay

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
I find music by creeping people's sputnik profiles.

Crysis
03.04.12

I sail the seas of negativity
To banish evil from this place
I fight with sword of fire and lightning
I am the guardian come this day

Xenophanes
03.04.12
Who wrote this? On my computer it doesn't show an author. And I'm not reading through all of those comments : /

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
Look for the lost and you just might find
That the cost is your mind
Ride the Serpent and make your stand
Cast no doubt to The Ram

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
redskyformiles did

Crysis
03.04.12
LAST IN NACROOOOOOOPALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS

Ire
03.04.12
I looked up with the utmost sense of surprise to find the portrait of a horned forest dweller standing gently in my path. So startled was I that my mind failed to perceive the simple beauty that stood before me. It was if I was suddenly plucked from existence and placed in between the sensual brush strokes of an architect of divine mastery. We stood for many seconds and delved deep into each other's very souls.

AggravatedYeti
03.04.12
god damn it adam thomas don't over analyze analyzation.

It is and endless tunnel where the light at the end is never brighter until you realize breaking things down is o k a y .



Hyperion1001
03.04.12
It has been called by many names throughout the years
Still they all mean the same, man burning in his fears
The Anti-Christ will come and rise up through the sea
The Dreams of Eschaton have shown this all to me

AsoTamaki
03.04.12
Alright. Let me comment since I seem to be one of the few who this didn't resonate with. I just felt like this was pseudo-intellectual nonsense. Like, this didn't really have any purpose in being written. At least, I am struggling to find it. You mentioned that there is a time and place for dissecting and studying music. I am curious as to when and where that would be if not on these types of websites. Of course reading about music cannot compare to listening to it. We all know this. It's a given fact that doesn't need to be said. You can't truly understand the way my chicken cacciatore tastes without tasting it. You can't quite grasp what it feels to sit on the sand, watching a sunset at Haulover beach in early March without going there and doing so. Et cetera. Just about everything is in some way indescribable, but there is obvious merit in descriptions. Music is no exception.

So redsky (btw, you guys should really put your name at the end of these posts until this bug is fixed), do you discuss music at all anymore? A review is simply a type of discussion. Your thoughts about the selection of music; how you related to what was expressed. It's all about sharing the experience with others. Music is certainly personal in that it will affect different people in different ways (as does just about everything else in this world), but it is also a fact that it unites people through common thought so it's not exactly a personal thing in that sense. As for the cultural thing, it's clear that certain people with similar life experiences, ways of life and interests will identify with certain types of music than others. Globalization has only diminished that aspect of it a little. "Music punctuates the cultural sphere less cleanly than it did before, but it's still got some weight behind it." is an accurate comment.

wabbit
03.04.12
I LIKE REVIEWS WHERE BUNGY TALKS ABOUT HIS CAT! AND REVIEWS WHERE HANS SAYS "FUCK" A WHOLE BUNCH BUT HE IS TOO MUCH OF AN OLD FUCK TO KNOW HOW TO MAKE SWEAR WORDS NOT CENSORED, HE ALSO HAS TO REFERENCE SPRINGSTEEN FUCKING SOMEONES MOM AT LEAST ONCE. I ALSO LIKE REVIEWS BY ADAM KNOTT. FINALLY I LIKE PRETENDING TO READ ADAM DOWNER'S REVIEWS AND SAYING MY OPINION IS THE SAME AS THEM CAUSE THEN I DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE ALBUM BUT PEOPLE THINK I'M STILL "WITH IT"

Eko
03.04.12
^greatness

ILJ
03.04.12
It's funny that somebody said this, because this exact thing has been nagging at me for the past couple weeks. Ever since I started coming here, while my tastes have indeed become very diverse, and I've found some mindblowing music that I would have never even given a chance were it not for this website, it's also desensitized me to the effect that music should have. Maybe it's because I'm not really going through any hard times in my life at the moment, so there's nothing really to attach this music to that would give it real significance, but listening to music these days feels more analytical to me (how does this song flow with relation to the album, is it technically proficient, etc.) than it does anything else.

Don't get me wrong, there have still been a couple albums that have that emotionally walloping effect that I've gotten while here (something about GY!BE's music strikes several chords with me) and the fact that I've opened up to genres like folk and electronica is something that I never thought I'd do even a year ago, but music used to be my life support system. Now it feels slightly like a chore sometimes, since there's just so much I want to listen to.

I'm thinking that after I finish downloading what's on my list right now, I'm going to stick with what I have for a few months and just focus on listening through what I have, and just keep up with releases by artists I know I like.

climactic
03.04.12
there aint nobody to be pretty for

Inveigh
03.04.12
100% agree with this post. especially when you're talking about cultural significance; I feel like music as a whole (and this has a lot to do with how we acquire and consume our tunes these days, in addition to the wealth of music information out there), has mirrored a society or civilization in that you have an ever-increasing gap between the mainstream and the underground (much like we see with the disappearing middle class).

This means that a large percentage of the quality music doesn't get the exposure required to attain cultural impact (i.e. would Zeppelin have gotten any radio play had they come out in this type of marketplace? Would anyone know who they were or would they be about as popular as Slough Feg?)

Also what's up with all the weird spam people are posting lately? I'm assuming it's from some tumblr or something, but I have no idea...

Aphrodisiac
03.04.12
"are inherently fucked because it all stems from taking the individual experience that is listening to a record and pulling it out of context; warping it into a collection of phrases and similes meant on describing something that is, at its core, indescribable. " so basically progmaster

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
I just think people have way too much music on this site to appreciate it all. The people in my list who said they had over 200 GB of music is just insane to me. Theres absolutely no way you can enjoy all of that without it being a chore. These sites are great for finding new music, but it can get overwhelming since there is so much shit out there to listen to. Like I said in one of my lists, back in the day people used to jam to one or two albums for a long time, but now since we download everything it has taken the intimacy away from the experience.

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
This is true. I usually listen to one new album a day.

Samizdat
03.04.12
How drunk were you when you wrote this?

Funeralopolis
03.04.12
I am guessing he was very.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
I try to listen to an album a day too. But sometimes Ill skip a couple days and others Ill listen to 3-4 albums in a day. Ill just go with my mood and not make it into a job or some shit. Sites like this, and the internet in general, can make listening to music into a checklist. You listen to one album then go on to the next. Theres barely any intimacy that there used to be. Thats one of the bad points of being able to download music. Because back when people actually had to pay for thee stuff (I pay for it once in a while if I really like it) they had to be choosy about what they bought and then took their time with that album. Now we can download as many albums as we want in a day like its nothing. And I think that has taken away from things a little bit even if its great to be able to get music for free.

ILJ
03.04.12
Yankee hit the nail on head.

Katechon
03.04.12
Heavy shit.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
I just think its become a dick measuring contest here. Seeing who can listen to the most music. Seeing who can listen to the most underground/unknown demo tape that has 67 views on Youtube with 2 reviews on Sputnik and no Wikipedia page and hate on any band with more than 5 fans to try and impress fellow Sputnikers who you will never meet and are in the very small minority in the first place. I mean on this site a band like Opeth is popular, but Im pretty sure I dont know one person who even knows who they are. Most people would prob think Im a freak if I showed em Akerfeldt growling his ass off. I think Sputnik loses track of how small of a world this site is, but thats the internet for you. I listen to pretty mainstream stuff by sputnik standards but Im lucky if one of my friends even knows more than one Nine Inch Nails song. Its all Hip Hop and like Dave Matthews with them lol. What Im sayin is sometimes less is more. I dont need 500 thrash or death metal bands who all sound the same, but hey do you. You dont go to an art museum to look at every painting for 2 seconds just like you dont listen to an album once and then forget about it while you have 25 more albums to listen to that week before another 25 the next and so on. Who are you trying ti impress? Because nobody cares.

Damn thats alot of werrrrdz.

Samizdat
03.04.12
Shame on the staff o.p. I expect better from this website, where there's a certain precedent of respect associated with you red letter folk. Respect garnered as a result of your ability to reconcile analysis and opinion, not because of your person. You posted this asinine drivel in a blog reserved for the best, because we can't all be Robert Christgau, and you genuinely believed that what you were doing was, to some extent, a good idea. Someone should snip a corner off of your Totin' Chip.

Deviant.
03.04.12
So basically what you are saying is:

EMERITUS

Inveigh
03.04.12
"Im pretty sure I dont know one person who even knows who they are."

lol how is this possible

Katechon
03.04.12
If something has only 67 YouTube hits then it probably won't have any reviews here, much less two.

Inveigh
03.04.12
^in reference to Opeth

Gyromania
03.04.12
"How drunk were you when you wrote this?"

I'm the person he was talking to while writing this, and he didn't seem drunk at all to me.

Samizdat: Robert Christgau is a terrible writer.

Samizdat
03.04.12
Don't try to defend this. It's embarrassing. And dumb.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
"lol how is this possible"

Maybe all your friends are a bunch of metalheads, but mine arent. I assure you they have no clue who Opeth is. Like I said they might be popular if you're into metal, but the average person isnt into metal let alone death metal and Opeth means nothing to them. You cant honestly tell me you havent noticed this yourself. Wherever I go its Rap and Pop music with sprinkles of the Foo Fighters lol.

Cipieron
03.04.12
is this for real? i'd love an actual fucking sput blog

StrangerofSorts
03.04.12
Where to start...

You can describe music, because it is not indescribable. Take music as an experience (of emotion, ideas), language is developed around experiences: what nailing that cavewoman was like and so on. It's perfectly equipped to explain the experience of music on the mind. I think the problem yoiu describe arises through trying to just explain the music and expecting the experience to be explained as well.

Also, can we all shut the fuck up about subjectivity? It's based on the assumption that we're all different; an assumption that couldn't be more wrong. We're born with very similar neural set-ups, and from their we're all exposed to a society which is very stringent on teaching people the same emotional reactions. e.g. if I place a picture of a cute cat in front of you most people would go "awww" unless they're sociopathic (though true sociopaths would probably still go "aww", just because they know that's what they're meant to do) or so up their own ass that they see that as somehow below them. Face it, people react to things in similar ways, so a reviewer is perfectly justified in expecting the readers to share in their experiences with an a album. (/psychology student)

The act of reviewing can be good for the reviewer, too. Personally, I fucking love dissecting an album: understanding how it works and why I like it/ don't. Maybe that's the autistic half of me showing through, but I love understanding.

Though to add to your out-pour, I don't think there's any point - for the reader's point of view - in a negative review for an album no body has heard of. Simply put, there's no reason to read a review of just another album you won't listen to.

Aids
03.04.12
love me some redskyformiles brand cynicism

iFghtffyrdmns
03.04.12
well this was interesting...

Knott-
03.04.12
"Face it, people react to things in similar ways,"

which is why everyone likes the same music YEAAAAAAAH

StrangerofSorts
03.04.12
Pick an album with more than a couple of votes and you'll see that opinions always scatter around a particular point. People don't like the same genres, sure, but then why are they reading a review for a genre they don't like? Though digging down into it, people do look for the same things in different genres (I've seen death metal linked to ambient a couple of times, not quite sure I agree with that one though), it's mostly a case of keeping an open mind.

Ponton
03.04.12
anyone else think users shouldnt give a shit about trying to have 'good music taste'?

not sure such a thing is possible anyway for many of the points in this blog and some of knotts





Enotron
03.04.12
agree with this entirely, that's why i stopped reviewing

Sanders
03.04.12
Yeah, this is exactly why I struggle to review, it's difficult to put opinions into words when those opinions change with the time and place of the listening.

porch
03.04.12
thought this was pretty dumb tbh

music has relevance and meaning that goes beyond our immediate experiences or initial gut reaction while listening to it. so we write/think/talk about it, and attempting to articulate why it moved us or made us feel a certain way is part of the appreciation. anyone who isn’t mentally deficient already knows that it’s best to actually listen for yourself instead of blindly trusting a review but that doesn't mean the actual process is worthless. people may approach an album from different angles and draw different conclusions but the actual content remains there to draw from and be discussed

porch
03.04.12
what happened to my isn'ts :(

porch
03.04.12
i'll agree that on this site, more people need to learn to form their own opinions on things

plane
03.04.12
This post explains a lot of why I became emeritus, but I've reconciled with the fact that, well, reviews are basically implied "IMO," and how one goes about describing the music can be from a purely "objective" standpoint, or they can go the route Pitchfork, Sputnik, CMG, lots of other sites take, in that expressing what one feels, how it relates to "our lives" "right now" often helps other assess why we would find it objectively this/that good. Sometimes there's stuff that just needs validation past, "this is what it sounds like, and I find that to be good," which I found often happened on albums like LCD Soundsystem (and many others, but). Great, you've listed some signifier, now what?

plane
03.04.12
This is also why my 5 star ratings range so wildly between albums I feel are the best within the genre, my favorites of all time, and simply me believing that the artist has done all they could do to achieve the success they wanted for that particular album, and how that might resonate with me in a way that I like listening to it, as well. And often love. I don't think 'Take Care' is another 'Liquid Swords,' but there are days I enjoy them _just as much_.

plane
03.04.12
So, back to the post, Adam's existential crisis will only reveal more about himself and why he chooses to like the music he does. This is an important step for any critic, I think, because you stop compartmentalizing tastes and realize that, were you to make a top 10 favorites list, those albums probably have more in common with each other than they do with artists within their genre. Unless you're just being topical, which is sad and you probably need the crisis to reassess why one likes music in the first place.

Athom
03.04.12
"How drunk were you when you wrote this?"

not very!

SCREAM!
03.04.12
clicked bcuz P.O.S. [2]

Inveigh
03.04.12
"Like I said they might be popular if you're into metal, but the average person isnt into metal let alone death metal and Opeth means nothing to them. You cant honestly tell me you havent noticed this yourself"

I never said anything about this, I just expressed surprise at your statement of not knowing a single person who's ever even heard of Opeth.

klap
03.04.12
inveigh i don't think that's that surprising, i don't know anyone (in real life) who knows opeth either

someguest
03.04.12
"I don't read any reviews anymore, on this site or any other. When something comes out that piques my interest I listen to it and then make my judgements. I can understand the use of reviews and such when people use them to find new music and such, but being involved in some way or another with the music scene which I'm interest in and being around musically inclined people has made it so I don't have to do that anymore and thusly have changed the way I think about things on a personal level."

yeah this basically. when you've devoted enough time to music, you know the moments that make you sit and say 'wow', and the input of others becomes pretty much irrelevant. and rating albums becomes irrelevant too. it doesn't matter if the album's a 2 or a 4 if it's hitting me just right at this moment in time.

Athom
03.04.12
someguest gets it. it's nice to see we can agree on something haha

someguest
03.04.12
yeah it's cool haha. and i might add the new stuff i've been listening to has greatly decreased since my views on it changed.

Hyperion1001
03.04.12
rate everything 5 its more fun that way

Athom
03.04.12
Same here, I've stopped trying to cram as much information about what's new and buzzworthy into my listening and am sitting back and tacking the time to fully delve into the albums that I'm playing even if some of it is only skin deep.

Athom
03.04.12
taking*

Inveigh
03.04.12
really klap? maybe it's just where I've lived and who I've hung out with, but I remember people wearing Opeth t-shirts in high school back in like 2000/2001

I mean they've sold millions of records...

Katechon
03.04.12
Why are there so many "metalheads" on the internet complaining about how no one they know IRL has ever heard of (insert well known/overrated metal band here) and that their friends listen to pop music? I go to high school and the kids who listen to pop are in a very small minority (not to mention that they're usually people who don't even like music that much anyways). For the most part anyone who actually listen to music as a hobby listen to either dubstep or metalcore. And I know at least 2 or 3 people IRL who have heard of Opeth.

Wolfhorde
03.04.12
Kind of makes sense, but also goes with "it's almost a bit too obvious" thing. I mean sources as internet are good for being exposed to new music and having a "discussion" (on sputnik.. yeah right) are nice but who the fuck seriously changes his opinion/musical taste of that? (except for maybe extending) It's not like people in the "real world" change their music taste all the time.

Wolfhorde
03.04.12
@Katechon: Because exposure varies with region and "scenes" people are involved with? Obvious causality is obvious.

klap
03.04.12
not a metalhead myself and don't really know anyone personally who even listens to metal so that's probably why

Inveigh
03.04.12
ah yes well then that makes sense

Athom
03.04.12
ಠ_ಠ i've met you in "real life" and i own two opeth shirts and all their albums...

Inveigh
03.04.12
that's along the lines of what I'm saying. like even before I'd heard Opeth I saw people wearing their t-shirts (not necessarily my friends either) and heard people talking about them

klap
03.04.12
yeah but i met you through sputnik adam don't get it twisted son

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
Im sayin the girls I know listen to pop/techno music while the guys I know either listen to hip hop, electronic/dubstep, or rock bands on the softer side. Im not friends with many metalheads. Not complaining but tellin it like it is. Then again I live in NYC so that could have something to do with it. So yea I didnt even hear of Opeth until a couple years ago myself and Ive been into Hard Rock and Metal my whole life. I was just not very into the whole screaming/death metal thing and that turns alot of people off to metal too. Maybe I wasnt paying attention to what T Shirts the goth kids in highschool were wearing though lol. They were some strange lads.

Wolfhorde
03.04.12
I don't even get the whole "people here don't [even] know [X]" who gives a flying fuck unless it's something rather "essential" [historically/influential].

Inveigh
03.04.12
you wouldn't call Opeth essential metal? or at the very least death metal?

AsoTamaki
03.04.12
"Then again I live in NYC so that could have something to do with it."

I've never been there, but I hear that NYC has a lot of people. Opeth was not that obscure when I was in high school either. I can only imagine that awareness of them has grown since Watershed. It's a little sad to think that there isn't anyone who knows them in your circle of acquaintances. You should definitely try to meet at least a single person who shares one of your main interests.

Inveigh
03.04.12
exactly my point, people act like Opeth is a "sputnik band" but they're widely popular and acclaimed pretty much everywhere, it would be weird if people on sputnik DIDN'T like Opeth

Katechon
03.04.12
"you wouldn't call Opeth essential metal? or at the very least death metal?"

Opeth isn't death metal brah.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
I never said I gave a fuck. Im just sayin people on this site act like Opeth is some mainstream band when in reality they arent. Not complaining. They only have a couple songs over a million views on Youtube, which is nothing compared to other genres. Maybe in the small world of metal they're big but Ive never met a person in my circle of friends who likes death metal. Thats all Im saying. You can insert alot of bands in Opeth's place but I just used them. Plus Id say Opeth is pretty essential and influential.

klap
03.04.12
^^^

Trebor.
03.04.12
Opeth suck though

Vesper
03.04.12
Uh, wow, you live in NYC and you don't know one person who knows who Opeth are?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Shit, son, way to not be a part of any of the many, many music communities here. Opeth aren't 'mainstream', but I don't know how you haven't met a single person who has heard of them in NYC unless you never go to any shows or engage in any physical scene.

Inveigh
03.04.12
"Opeth isn't death metal brah."

yeah they are, at least their first 2-3 albums

Wolfhorde
03.04.12
"you wouldn't call Opeth essential metal? or at the very least death metal?" Essential metal? No. Essential death metal? Idk, depends on what "scenes" the person is around. As I already mentioned it pretty much varies regionally. Obviously Opeth has international success but there's also the case of people simply not liking/finding them memorable at all.

Inveigh
03.04.12
i know people who say the same thing about Pink Floyd but it doesn't mean they're not essential or influential

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
No Im not much of a music scene guy. I listen to my music, go to a few concerts when I can, and go on with my life. Of course If I went out of my way to find people who liked Opeth I could do it. Im going to see them and Mastodon next month for one. Im just saying in my normal everyday interactions there arent many metalheads I know. Only about 1 of my highschool and college friends liked metal, and it wasnt the more extreme stuff. I mean sure everyone has heard of Metallica, but Opeth is harder to come by. IDK whats so hard to get about that. Alot of the music we listen to here would draw blanks from the vast majority of people. Most people are more casual listeners.

Wolfhorde
03.04.12
@Yankee: I wasn't referring to you I was making a general statement. Also, I'm high on meds but that's irrelevant right now. Define "influential", because when I think of "influential" musicians/bands I think of bands like The Beatles, Johnny Cash, Frank Sinatra or Miles Davis, when I think of influential metal bands I think of Bathory, Venom, Manowar, Death, Burzum, Mayhem, Vader, Sodom, Kreator, Slayer, Metallica ect ect. But as I already implied "influentiality/essentiality" varies with scene and region. Just like bands as Nocte Obducta, Bethlehem, Nagelfar and similar are essential/influential in the German BM scene.

Inveigh
03.04.12
well of course Opeth is more obscure than Metallica

in other news Tyler the Creator is more obscure than Jay Z

Vesper
03.04.12
Nothing hard about it, I just don't get your point - that most people listen to mainstream music? Why else do you think it's called 'mainstream'? It's a moot point.

If you're not going to engage in the communities that revolve around styles of music, you're never going to meet people and make friends that are interested in the same styles as you.

And NYC is one of the LAST cities where you're likely to draw a blank if you mention a 'Sputnik band'. I'd understand if you were from Bumfuck, Midwest, but this city has one of the most diverse representation of music tastes in the world, so for you to not run into people who know a relatively popular metal band just indicates that you're almost completely disengaged.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
Difference is pretty much everyone I know knows who Tyler is, while none know who Opeth is.

AsoTamaki
03.04.12
Haha, seriously. NYC. Lol. I can totally understand not having close friends who like the band, but it's just the whole "never met anyone" who even KNOWS them idea that is unbelievable. Metal isn't exactly the tiny, hidden cult you're making it out to be. Especially among the teenage-early 20s crowd which I assume you are a part of.

klap
03.04.12
eh it kind of is

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
Like I said if I went out of my way I could find people of course. Ive just always been a jock and those are the kind of people Ive always hung out with. from highschool to college to now. In my experience nobody in these groups listens to much metal. Maybe a little rock, but not much metal. Thats all Im sayin. Nothing earth shattering. Metal is much more underground in the "real world" than people here act like. But again I guess its just the crowd I run with.

Katechon
03.04.12
"Ive just always been a jock"

You're complaining about not being able to find other metal fans when you associate yourself with a very small amount of people, most of whom don't even listen to music? Holy fucking shit, shut up. It's like complaining about not being able to find old school horror fans while hanging out with a bunch of old people.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
My little brother goes to Fordham and he tells me the same thing. Nobody there listens to metal. They all listen to fuckin LIl Wayne lol. He tried showing his roommates stuff and they hate it. Same thing with my older brother. Like I said its all hip hop. A bunch of wiggers I tell ya. Its very very rare that I find someone who even likes rock as much as me, let alone metal, and def let alone extreme metal. This convo is going nowhere though so Im sorry for derailing it.

Katechon
03.04.12
Maybe you and your brothers should start hanging out with cool people with a wide variety of interests instead of pinning yourselves to stupid meatheads.

YankeeDudel
03.04.12
Ugh. Whatever man. Im not complaining. Im just telling you that the VAST majority of people I come into contact with dont listen to metal. Its not a big deal. Of course I could find them at shows and what not if I really cared that much. I could find any group of people if I searched for them. Im just saying the metal world is a small one compared to other genres. All you have to do is look at Youtube views to see this. Megadeth only has a couple songs over a million views while alot of Indie bands have like much more. Im just spinnin my wheels though I guess.

Vesper
03.04.12
csb seriously

AsoTamaki
03.04.12
All of Laura Stevenson's songs combined on Youtube probably doesn't even have a million views. And she had the best and most widely praised indie album of 2011. Right? So metal really isn't that small unless you're comparing it to stuff like Katy Perry. The metal fanbase is a large minority. Look at the Youtube views more closely.

Athom
03.04.12
the most widely praised indie album of 2011 would be Bon Iver's but that's including the entire music sphere and not just this site. which it was the staff album of the year as well, but i digress.

EaglesBecomeVultures
03.05.12
Promise of stress

thebhoy
03.05.12
I've been having conversations like this with my friend who's a grad student for popular music and various other things (specifically medieaval notation, or something), and basically we agree with you to a certain extent; I think the super specific rating system of P4k is absurd (and to be fair many of their writers have pointed out this very fact) and I am one who sees the removal of a rating system on this or any site as beneficial.

But, your suggestion is not a new one (nor do I imagine you intend it to be)--Gadamer basically made the same argument in "the Universality of the Hermeneutical Problem" by arguing all art criticism is a corruption of the art itself because it removes the subjective experience, or approximates what an acceptable subjective experience might be. However, this suggestion, that all forms of art criticism (film, literature, etc.) is a corrupting practice, negates the expansion of thought about why we like the things we like. The reason I write reviews, besides on a recommendatory level, is to explore the ever increasing brain trust of writing about art and the experience of experiencing.

Yes, there are problems especially with the internet level critics, the muddying of the consumer/producer/gate keeper dichotomy, and the over-reliance on creating trends instead of lasting music, but I also think simply raising your hands and saying "well you like what you like" is also problematic.

thebhoy
03.05.12
tl;dr fuck

someguest
03.05.12
as with anything, the economics of it is what destroys the importance of it. when you have five or so corporations deciding what's being played on the radio for 311 million people, it takes away the whole point of art in the process. and not to mention it takes millions just to start up a radio station. it's the avenue many still use because it's free and easy to access, but it doesn't help individuals in their exploration of music.

AggravatedYeti
03.05.12
reading this thread has been very interesting to say the least.

Deviant.
03.05.12
"I just think people have way too much music on this site to appreciate it all. The people in my list who said they had over 200 GB of music is just insane to me. Theres absolutely no way you can enjoy all of that without it being a chore. These sites are great for finding new music, but it can get overwhelming since there is so much shit out there to listen to. Like I said in one of my lists, back in the day people used to jam to one or two albums for a long time, but now since we download everything it has taken the intimacy away from the experience."

I'm not quite sure what you seem to think you're getting at, unless you believe that these 200gb+ libraries are being amassed over the course of a few weeks by people who just download any and every "hyped" album. I've been listening to, and subsequently collecting, music for 10 years. And during that time I've amassed a rather large collection of music. It's not a dick measuring contest in the slightest

wabbit
03.05.12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ys8-sF1NU

Emim
03.05.12
See, girls are like yeahhh riiight

and guys are like YEAH RIGHT!

liledman
03.05.12
yeah and its not like music is a social thing at all

Aids
03.05.12
woah a thread filled with actual intelligent and constructive discussion on sputnik?

head=exploded

Inveigh
03.05.12
"Like I said if I went out of my way I could find people of course. Ive just always been a jock and those are the kind of people Ive always hung out with. from highschool to college to now. In my experience nobody in these groups listens to much metal"

huh I played three sports in high school and specifically remember jamming old school Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera etc in the locker room before football games. And I wasn't the one putting it on. In fact, the first time I ever heard Entombed was in a high school locker room. In the fucking Midwest yo!

plus not all people who like rap are wiggers, this YankeeDudel fellow sure is saying a lot of dumb stuff up in here.

Inveigh
03.05.12
I mean I have a hard time believing you're actually from NYC if you've never been exposed to people who listen to something outside of top 40

Emim
03.05.12
yeah but you like rap and i'm pretty sure you're a wigger

;)

Inveigh
03.05.12
well yea maybe i'm not the best example

BUT STILL

klap
03.05.12
experience is everything inveigh, that never would have happened in my high school

Emim
03.05.12
But in serious response to that...

Obviously it's more difficult to find large groups of people into extreme types of music; that's a large part of their genesis anyway. I know like maybe 6-7 people irl who even can stomach metal, and out of those maybe 3 who can stomach the heavier stuff. If metal or indie or "electronica" had mass mainstream appeal, we wouldn't really need sites like this. Turntable really is a great site to somewhat mimic the action of listening to music with friends.

Inveigh
03.05.12
true true klap, I went to three different high schools in three different states so I can somewhat empathize

but then again there were metalheads in all three of them. I mean, do you guys just go to small schools or something? the high schools I went to ranged from 1300 to 4000 students...

or maybe it's that sunny west coast that just breeds pop and indie fans? idk

Inveigh
03.05.12
YOU ARE ALL SHELTERED FROM THE METAL

Counterfeit
03.05.12
"In the fucking Midwest yo!"

cause we're better than everyone duh.

ffs
03.05.12
lmao this is retarded

Inveigh
03.05.12
well obviously the midwest is the best region of the country, but that's an entirely different discussion

klap
03.05.12
i grew up in florida inveigh pleaseeee. but yeah my high school was small

wabbit
03.05.12
Ya at my high school we only listened to 36 mafia and lil Jon before games...cause we were fucking balling crackers.

Counterfeit
03.05.12
yee true. but yeah i go to a big high school like 3000 students and the music taste is diverse in a sense but really its all bullshit

Inveigh
03.05.12
oh damn klap I thought you were an L.A. guy, or do you just go to college there?

but yeah my experience in high school also probably had a lot to do with being a musician, so I hung out with a lot of music nerds

klap
03.05.12
yeah i grew up in orlando and then went to USC for college and now law school so i'm probably staying here

Inveigh
03.05.12
word sounds awesome, I've never even been to Cali

Chicago's awesome though

klap
03.05.12
my best friend's girlfriend is from chicago so trust me i hear plenty

thebhoy
03.05.12
I don't remember what the fuck people listened to in high school I just remember in grade 11 my friend played Do Make Say Think for me and told me about indie and now look at the monster he created

Emim
03.05.12
"word sounds awesome, I've never even been to Cali"

missing out, brah. shoulder-length blond hair and surfing every day. and just yesterday i ran into ryan gosling on the way to the market.

plane
03.05.12
In high school there were a lot of diverse tastes that I'd run into, from top 40 to intentionally obscure bullshit. By my sophomore year I had senior friends who turned me onto Animal Collective and Sufjan Stevens and the like.. then I searched for Escape the Fate 'cuz I was still a scenefag and came upon Sputnik. Then everything changed. +once you're in college at some liberal arts school, everyone and their mother is "into music." We actually have a festival coming up this weekend that is going to be crazy.

Emim
03.05.12
the college kids i've met that are "Into music" are into muse and motion city soundtrack.

"it speaks to me man. they take chaos and make it beautiful"

Emim
03.05.12
actual quote, in case you missed it

Inveigh
03.05.12
"just yesterday i ran into ryan gosling on the way to the market."

Emim's butthole will never be the same again

renegadestrings
03.05.12
will read after i listen to P.O.S. and eat my cornflakes

EaglesBecomeVultures
03.06.12
I think the best threat in the world is to say

PGST3
03.08.12
P.O.S.!!

toolpeth182
03.09.12
back to the original discussion...

"I can understand the use of reviews and such when people use them to find new music and such,"

^ This pretty much explains why reviews are important to music sites. I don't even understand why there was a debate going on when this point was mentioned more than once haha.

To the current discussion, I had a group of like 6-8 friends in high school that all listened to death metal/progressive metal, a couple even into black metal. Obviously you might get shafted and just don't know people irl with a good varied taste in music. That's what the internet is for !

Activista anti-MTV
03.10.12
sounds like someguest

Arked
03.10.12
You're so fucking right I almost cried.

Activista anti-MTV
03.12.12
Just to address what the writer is saying...

Every person on sputnik shares similar experiences with music (with the exception of BaselineOOO, whose taste reflects a different upbringing), making this site possible. Saying, I like this is tantamount to saying you might like this, so that's where writing reviews and such comes in... but yeah, the site regulars have made writing into their own arms race... not that that's bad, but it can detract from the music, I think.

Activista anti-MTV
03.12.12
To answer the question posed at the beginning...

I would say expose yourself to new experiences, like listening to jazz, classical, and regional music stylings (bluegrass, for instance, which is popular in Minnesota).

Also, try to get out of the house and talk to new people, make friends, have fun, do dumb stuff. Life is good, but not everyone on here has one tbh

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