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Electric City
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15728 Comments

Album Rating: 4.0

there is certainly a difference between objective best and favorite

example: My favorite album of all time is Feels. Does this mean I can't concede no other piece of music ever made is better? Does this make the entire collected works of Igor Stravinsky worse than Avey Tare's greatest artistic achievement?

As much as we like to say it doesn't exist, objectivity is around in some capacity.

anything else is silly

Digging: Alvvays - Alvvays

Enotron
August 24th 2010



7695 Comments

Album Rating: 3.0

what i hate is when annoying people like you get hung up with somebody saying a simple comment such as "muther is the best song"

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


no it's not thats so dumb

"Does this make the entire collected works of Igor Stravinsky worse than Avey Tare's greatest
artistic achievement? "

yeah. it does. in your opinion. and you're not Objectively Wrong, nor is the person who
thinks feels is shit and igor stravinsky is awesome

i mean cmon: let's suppose the objective best on this is indeed muther

does that mean, for anyone who makes an "album ranking" or whatever, that someone who has muther at
number 1 is right, and that having it at 2, 3, 4, 5, etc is progressively more "off", or "wrong"?

we can make a sort of list of things that make music "good" (this is what chambered was doing in
support of muther being the "objective best") just because we almost always happen to
agree on them. an out-of-tune guitar is "bad", most people agree. but that doenst make someone who
likes the sound of it have bad taste, or "wrong" taste.


eno: it's when people say "this is the best, but these are my favorites". especially in the context
of one fucking album. it's like saying "my opinion is slightly off " or something

Electric City
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15728 Comments

Album Rating: 4.0

"Does this make the entire collected works of Igor Stravinsky worse than Avey Tare's greatest artistic achievement? "

yeah. it does. in your opinion.


Well that killed any chance we had of having a conversation that isn't retarded

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


"Well that killed any chance we had of having a conversation that isn't retarded"

do you really think music isnt opinion-based

like do you think a team of Musical Scientists could come up with like an ultimate list of albums ranked based on their "objective value" and we could like qualify people's tastes based on how much they aree with it

fromtheinside
August 24th 2010



17911 Comments


i like to relate objectivity to food. i love mac and cheese and do think it's the best food. i'm not wrong in that thinking. what if someone said cod was theeee best food bar none, well too bad i can't eat cod cause i'm allergic apparently there's no chance i'll ever have at being right.

Digging: Coroner - No More Color

Enotron
August 24th 2010



7695 Comments

Album Rating: 3.0

hmm. yeah but a personal favorite is something that hits home and the best is one you as an individual see that is the best written, produced, and best effort. people have favorites for often quirky reasons, feels is also my favorite album but Kid A is obviously a better album. it is attempting some sort of musical objectivity, but it is still speaking from a subjective point and chambered is speaking for himself.

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


im honestly shocked people in this day and age still hold fast to the idea that art is objective

" yeah but a personal favorite is something that hits home and the best is one you as an individual
see that is the best written, produced, and best effort. people have favorites for often quirky
reasons, feels is also my favorite album but Kid A is obviously a better album."

what no this is so terrible why

if an album is better youll like it more what

why would i think an album i dont like as much is better--the one that i like more is better because
i fucking like it more.

fromtheinside
August 24th 2010



17911 Comments


art is subjective. i don't even understand how someone could think otherwise.

Enotron
August 24th 2010



7695 Comments

Album Rating: 3.0

word

fromtheinside
August 24th 2010



17911 Comments


i was just going to mention that the acknowledgement of art being subjective means it's objective
but............

Electric City
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15728 Comments

Album Rating: 4.0

do you really think music isnt opinion-based


this is not what i said at all. you're qualifying objectivity as a series of "positive qualities" which make good music, and no one fucking keeps track of that. i just concede that im not enough of an ass to say my opinion is better than anyone else's and that the tallest man on earth isn't more of a genius than beethoven even though i prefer listening to the former way more

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


i actually have no idea what you mean by that

@fromtheinside

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


"i just concede that im not enough of an ass to
say my opinion is better than anyone else's and that the tallest man on earth isn't more of a genius
than beethoven even though i prefer listening to the former way more"

(im assuming by "more of a genius" you are sort of edging away from "better" but thats what you
really mean) if one makes better music than why would the other one be better

i know im going in circles but all the shit that beethoven did, the innovation of his music, the
intricacy, the whatever, none of that matters if you prefer listening to tallest man on earth

"you're qualifying objectivity as a series of "positive qualities" which make good music, and no one
fucking does that."

actually thats exactly what chambered did

Electric City
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15728 Comments

Album Rating: 4.0

sometimes chambered doesn't think things through

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


so tell me is that not what you are doing when you (seem to imply, at least) that igor stravinsky is objectively better (or at least as good) as feels

Enotron
August 24th 2010



7695 Comments

Album Rating: 3.0

lol its true


i lol'd

Electric City
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15728 Comments

Album Rating: 4.0

@robertsona:

no. from a cultural perspective, stravinsky or beethoven or anyone in that vein are culturally influential, massively successful, beloved, and generally discussed as "brilliant" by people far smarter and more knowledgeable than I'll ever be. I am okay with this. And I suspect that many of those people don't call the composers I just mentioned makers of their favorite music either. There just comes a point where it's important to not be retarded and argue to people that an album by Linkin Park that you still hold dear because of nostalgia is a "better" work than something that is actually brilliant.

Which isn't to say you can't have favorites. But it is important to acknowledge that the emotional response they trigger in you is an experience unique to you and that it is okay to like something while acknowledging it is probably "objectively" worse than a thousand other pieces of music ever written.

cagovnold
August 24th 2010



23 Comments

Album Rating: 4.5

I have a question:

What is "better music"?

robertsona
Staff Reviewer
August 24th 2010



15000 Comments


"rom a cultural perspective, stravinsky or beethoven or anyone in that vein are culturally
influential, massively successful, beloved"

this is basically the process i described only you sneakily added "culture" or whatever instead of
"music"--and really...you're conceding that your opinion is "wrong" or "off" or whatever (as
compared to the "objective" standards) simply because people "smarter than you" (wtf does this have
to do with music) say so? c'mon.

"There just comes a point where it's important to not be retarded and argue to people that an album
by Linkin Park that you still hold dear because of nostalgia is a "better" work than something that
is actually brilliant. "

okay what makes something "brilliant"--i think youll find that the process you use to determine
that, really, is the one i described

"But it is important to acknowledge that the emotional response they trigger in you is an experience
unique to you and that it is okay to like something while acknowledging it is probably "objectively"
worse than a thousand other pieces of music ever written."

if something triggers somethign in you that makes you like it better than another piece, that first
piece has simply done its job better, no matter how much you try to objectify it by saying "but the
second piece is well-written and culturally important and influential and LOTS OF MUSICAL SCHOLARS
SAY ITS BETTER"

do you really think music isnt opinion-based


this is not what i said at all.


also id just like to clarify that what youre "really" saying is that it's indeed opinion based but
those opinions in the grand scheme really mean nothing because they need to be conceded to the
"objectively right" standard



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