Elliott Smith Either/Or
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TRMshadow
November 17th 2012



4982 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0

Indubitably

toxin.
November 17th 2012



12211 Comments

Album Rating: 4.5

yeah

tommygun
November 17th 2012



24218 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0

Between the Bars omg

Digging: J Mascis - Tied to a Star

MichaelSnoxall
November 17th 2012



12163 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Off

Honestly, his death doesn't sound like a suicide. The story sounds like there's a lot more evidence in favour of it being murder.

TRMshadow
November 17th 2012



4982 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0

That's exactly what I've said since the moment I learned of how he died. Even made a speech in one of my college classes defending my opinion.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/rockers-autopsy-doesnt-rule-out-homicide

MichaelSnoxall
November 17th 2012



12163 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Off

Yeah, it's pretty dodgy. Not to mention how uncharacteristic it would be to brutally kill yourself knowing a loved one is in the next room, rather than killing yourself in a more subtle and gruesome way. Also that fact that she just pulled the knife out. And that she sued his family the next year for his money.

TRMshadow
November 17th 2012



4982 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0

Bitches....... I feel more and more like being asexual with each passing day.

tommygun
November 17th 2012



24218 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0

I didn't know she sued his family too holy shit what a heartless bitch.

The more I think about it the more I refuse to believe he would stab himself in the chest twice I mean who the fuck does
that, if he was gonna suicide surely he'd just cut his wrists or deliberately OD or something.

Such an incredibly sad story.

ckunke002
November 17th 2012



1033 Comments


This guy openly talked about suicide and intense depression and was known to be one of the most
troubled souls in the specific scene. The chance that he did it to himself is way greater in my mind
than she did. She wouldn't have even had that great a reason to. It's kind of like saying Kurt Cobain
was murdered....

That's just like... my opinion though.

MichaelSnoxall
November 17th 2012



12163 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Off

It's uncommon but it happens yeah.

MichaelSnoxall
November 17th 2012



12163 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Off

This guy openly talked about suicide and intense depression openly and was known to be one of the most troubled souls in the specific scene. The chance that he did it to himself is way greater in my mind than she did. She wouldn't have even had that great a reason to. It's kind of like saying Kurt Cobain was murdered....

That's just like... my opinion though.



It's more so that there's more evidence that it was a murder and less evidence that it was a suicide.

Wolfhorde
November 17th 2012



12907 Comments


"This guy openly talked about suicide and intense depression and was known to be one of the most
troubled souls in the specific scene. The chance that he did it to himself is way greater in my mind
than she did. She wouldn't have even had that great a reason to. It's kind of like saying Kurt Cobain
was murdered...."
A) Just because you're troubled and because you openly talk about these things does not mean you're more likely to do anything. I knew a girl who was quite open with it, also with her behavioral disorder and she's still alive - actually rather well nowadays. (just as an example)
B) Classifying whether the 'open' approach to it actually makes it more likely is highly polarized, it's partly theorized the the really extreme cases actually show the opposite behavior.
C) The evidence as already said says otherwise which leads us to
D) It's a misconception that 'normal' behavior in general means that you will behave 'normally' all the time and are less likely to do sth. stupid. You never know what humans are capable of and what their motivations are - there is no need for it to make any logical sense. The 'wrong' emotions in the 'wrong' moment and shit can go bad quick.

ckunke002
November 17th 2012



1033 Comments


I know exactly what you're trying to say, but my opinion still stands and it's obvious that Smith was a severely SEVERELY depressed individual for a very large part of his life.I think he was more than capable of doing it to himself and was WAY more likely to do something like that to himself than anybody else ever could have been. Once again, obviously just my take.

tommygun
November 17th 2012



24218 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0

I wouldn't be questioning it if it was a more 'normal' method of suicide because obviously Elliott had a lot of issues etc, it's just the way it happened and the circumstances surrounding it that make me think whoa whoa whoa wait a second here.

ckunke002
November 17th 2012



1033 Comments


And i would have to disagree completely that being troubled and depressed doesn't make you more likely to do anything. Sick people kill themselves. Healthy people do not.

MichaelSnoxall
November 17th 2012



12163 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Off

And i would have to disagree completely that being troubled and depressed doesn't make you more likely to do anything. Sick people kill themselves. Healthy people do not.

No, it's more likely that if a person is going to kill themselves, they're not gonna be open about it. I mean, in some cases they might say it before they do, but generally if someone's gonna kill themselves, they're not gonna be so open about it before they do it. Generally like you don't boast about how you're going to go murder someone before you do it.

I know exactly what you're trying to say, but my opinion still stands and it's obvious that Smith was a severely SEVERELY depressed individual for a very large part of his life.I think he was more than capable of doing it to himself and was WAY more likely to do something like that to himself than anybody else ever could have been. Once again, obviously just my take.

But that's not the point. The point we discussing is how all the evidence leaves murder a much more viable conclusion, as opposed to to suicide. It doesn't matter what's more likely, it's about the evidence of what actually happened. Trying to add percentages about what's more likely to happen is fruitless.

"In my opinion, it's more likely that this car will continue driving normally, rather than crash!"

Well, good for you, that doesn't make it so.

ckunke002
November 17th 2012



1033 Comments


Word. I probably haven't spent enough time reading material that pointed in that direction.

Wolfhorde
November 17th 2012



12907 Comments


"And i would have to disagree completely that being troubled and depressed doesn't make you more likely to do anything. Sick people kill themselves. Healthy people do not."
I'm sorry, it seems you completely misunderstood me. I'm not talking about healthy people, I'm saying that you can appear completely normal and still be sick or batshit crazy and likely to do something stupid. The point is, you are simply unable to judge that from the outside if something hasn't happened yet. Just look at sociopaths, it's not like they're running around with labels on their forehead. Some of them live in normal families and appear perfectly healthy for decades before they 'go off'.

Also, what Snoxall said.

MichaelSnoxall
November 17th 2012



12163 Comments

Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Off

Yeah, Elton John even married a woman before he started buttfucking dudes.

Wolfhorde
November 17th 2012



12907 Comments


Kill yourself, seriously fuck you for ruining my anecdote with such preposterous blathering.



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